if he runs out of money it will be impossible for her to do it. >> speaking of money, at the question, can trump pay carroll the 83 million-dollar verdict against him? he claimed it definitions that his stockpile of cash exceeds 400 million as one analyst suggested, it's less than 300 million. do expect him to put up the cash? will he have to liquidate assets? >> you know, i don't think he's gonna have to liquidate assets for that. if he gets hit with another 370 or so million he will be forced to liquidate assets or expand the balance sheet in terms of taking loans on his assets. the real trouble is, you mentioned that 76 million dollar number, he's got several more cases coming. the insurrection case, documents case, election interference case. you did the numbers, alex, he's probably got 100 $250 million of legal fees coming. there is an avalanche about him

on the financial side. as you know, the rnc is out of money. they're looking for loans themselves. they don't want to support donald trump or be anywhere near him. there is a cataclysm coming in the second half of 2024. >> you think you might have to liquidate sayings. can i just ask, does a bank loan for things like that? can you get loans pay that? >> certainly he could get loans if he has the collateral. if he has equity in these properties, these golf courses, these buildings that he owns he could certainly pose those as collateral and get loans. he probably has more cash than people think though. it's been exaggerated how poor he is. my guess is he does have the money to pay the 83 million very quickly. of course he will appeal it but again, if you go 83 plus three 70, that's another 150, that's a problem for most people, alex, no matter how rich you are, that's a big problem.

>> i was going to say. that's not coach trump change. anthony scaramucci, good to see you my friends. in the meantime, the clock is ticking towards midnight in iraq and syria. does it also mean we're closer to more u.s. retaliatory strikes? and up to the minute report on what to expect, next. >> nbc headquarters of new york. welcome to alex witt reports, two big breaking stories this hour for you. new reaction from the biden administration on the air strikes on iran-backed targets in iraq and syria. the deputy pentagon press secretary telling me today, the strikes send a strong signal about american capabilities and to expect more strikes soon. we believe we had extreme success in targeting the 85 targets that we hit yesterday. this is a multi pronged strategy. this was our first response late yesterday and we will continue to hold the forces,

whether it is irgc-backed militias or they're affiliated groups responsible for the attacks on u.s. forces. >> the administration also told nbc news that iraq received prior warning that the u.s. was going to strike, contrary to the claims that the iraqi government who condemns those attacks as violating iraqi sovereignty. today's other big story, polls are open in south carolina's first-in-the-nation democratic primary, where president biden is expected to overwhelmingly win that state. we will take you there coming up. first, to those military strikes, we have correspondents with the latest developments on these strikes. overseas and at home for. you let's go first the region and nbc news chief -- joining us from airville, or. rock here, you mentioned last hour that you talked with a member of an iranian proxy group. what more did you learn and what can we expect next? >> this is a spokesperson for a group called -- this is one of the groups in the umbrella

organization described as the islamic resistance in iraq. and what he tells us is that he -- they are not supported by iran. so some of this is frankly ridiculous because they absolutely are. but on the other hand, some of the things he says, i think it gives an indication as to where the risks are, the dangers of this turning into a wider flicked. you know, for example, when he warns is that if u.s. allies in the region like jordan, saudi arabia, they support the u.s., they will take the fight to those countries. remember that it was in jordan at the tower 22 that the strike happened that killed those three american servicemen and women. now, again, just another caveat, whether or not they have the capability to carry out that kind of extension of this fight, if you, like is

open to question. but i think it just gives you an idea of the intent. with another win aspect of this is that -- we should leave iraq. that iraq is tired of having the u.s. here. we he says thank you for fighting i.s.i.s. in iraq, now it's time friedli. the message is -- we around the strategy is to push the u.s. out of this region. but again, what it underscores is that it's a risk for the biden administration in targeting these groups in iraq. is that you increase the potential for the iraqi government to decide that it once the u.s. to leave. already complaints loudly about the sovereignty being breached. you can help those voices to say that the u.s. should be

pushed out of the region. we are hearing through the day that around 40 were killed. some supports say some civilians, others say the members of the iranian-backed militia both in syria and here, and iraq, it could be many more than that. i expect that the signaling that the u.s. did over this week kind of help to reduce those numbers which would have been part of it. this is an escalation that we've seen overnight. but at the same time, a limited one. in an area in the region of the tower, the place, the base the american base, where those u.s. service members were killed. it could've been much more. they could've had an enormous number of targets. the biden administration could have chosen -- that is what the pentagon says. that's what the biden administration says. it's calibrated measure to

tehran. as we've been saying all day, alex, one of the issues is, is the message simply not going beyond don't kill americans? like, is it going to move tehran strategy of trying to push america out of this region and put pressure on israel? i suspect not. and that leads really in the end to a wider question, the big question in this region, which is still to be answered sometime in the future.

of the american soldiers who were killed in the strikes in jordan last weekend. and at the end of his statement, he said let all of those e who might seek to do us harm, know this. if you harm an american, we will respond. those very stern words coming after the strike that you talked about where we saw these 85 targets in iraq and syria being hit. i think at this point, the question that we have, that we are asking most urgently is really what result came from the strikes. we know that there is a battle damage assessment that is happening, and we are waiting to hear exactly what level of success the national security council, and pentagon has said they were successful with their

strikes in iraq and syria last night. we don't know exactly what success means. did they hit all of the targets they set out to hit? and destroy them completely as you would expect they would want to do? we don't know yet what exactly the end result was of that and this assessment will be happening, the joint steeves of chaff's dead last night on a call with the president they did expect with the light of day they would be able to be doing some e level of assessmen to see what it is that they struck, and what remains to be struck. we know, alex, that the white house has said that there are multiple days, perhaps weeks of strikes that we will see in different forms. whether they be military strikes with aircraft or otherwise or if they are strikes that are cyber in nature, as has been suggested in the last several days. obviously we know that there's been an economic action taken against entities inside of iran as well. so that is where we are at this point, we will wait to hear

whether the pentagon has more to e say today. we've been asking questions at the white house, and we will of course peace staying on top of this and get more information as it is able to come out. >> as one analyst told me earlier on the broadcast, we have the first nine innings of a baseball game and that is what is happening underway so far. thank you enerin from the white house. i am joined right now by general barry mccaffrey, retired four star general, go for division commander, and now msnbc military analyst. always glad to welcome you, sir. were you surprised by the extent of these initial strikes? is this about what you expected? >> very comprehensive. well thought out. a brilliant orchestration of air power. these supersonic bombers were flying out of the united states at a 13,000 mile round trip. everyone appeared over the target in 30 minutes. they did not strike iran, it

was a wise precaution so i think they did a good job. alex, i have two concerns. one, the conversation still remains on if you kill american soldiers, we will respond. it needs to be if you threaten american soldiers, we will take preemptive action and kill you. that is one concern that i would have. and i think the second one is that we don't have a narrative that solely says we are trying to protect our forces. we need to talk about why are they there. what is our strategic purpose. what are we trying to achieve practically. if it is a counter i.s.i.s. mission, but we are being attacked by shia muslim proxies for iran, then we better articulate a new strategy and go after it. >> when you say that you are glad, you think it was wise to

not attack inside of iran, what is your reaction when you hear at least one republican elected official in congress saying we should be striking inside of iran to send a message? what kind of a powder keg would that set off? what is the fear of that? >> well, to be honest, this is just a shallow political nonsense. no one actually -- >> is it irresponsible, sir, to even suggest that? >> when you are in the national security council meetings at 2:00 in the morning, and there's 20 people sitting in a room, there is a bunch of bad things you've got to consider. you normally take off the table the ones that do alnot make any sense. and directly striking at this point, inside iran, it is a guaranteed escalation of conflict. which americans don't want to sc see happen. the biden administration wisely avoided it. so that is just political nonsense. what is the case, though, is

iran's orchestrating coordinating and training, equipping, funding these proxy groups. so you have got to sort out what it is you are going to do. that may include, and private channels. we do talk to the iranians on a frequent basis. we need to tell them at some point we are going to go after you. your armed forces, your economy, your nuclear weapons program, your irgc naval forces in the persian gulf, that is on the table in the background. but at this point, it wouldn't have made any sense at all. it would've been for the region. >> the press secretary for the pentagon was telling me this. take a listen. >> we do not seek a wider war, a regional conflict, we are not seeking war with iran. but what we are going to do and what we will continue to do is hold those groups who are attacking u.s. forces who are in iraq and syria to defeat

i.s.i.s., they are part of that mission to defeat i.s.i.s., and as we know ten years ago ices was a major terrorist force that was across the region and has been pared back in their capabilities. that is why they are in iraq and syria. any outside groups that threaten our mission there, we are absolutely going to hold them responsible. >> sabrina also told me that the u.s. does not consider the conflict a regional war. that is not odds with what our colleague, keir simmons has relayed us a sense of what those in f the region feel. what is your assessment? >> well, they are basically trying to not see the elephant stuffed into the closet in front of them. of course with the regional conflict, it is fairly low grade, secretary blinken and austin have both tried to ensure that it doesn't escalate any serious manner. but again, these proxy forces which includes hamas, the brutal murder of hundreds of

israeli civilians on the 7th of october. 100,000 hezbollah fighters in lebanon threatening very existence of israel, never mind the proxy forces and in syria and iraq. finally, the huskies who are in a major way threatening international commerce with no comment by the saudis, the egyptians, or jordanians. so it is a regional conflict. being managed as best as we can. but we do need a new consideration, strategic posture. what are we trying to do? we are not there at this point. we are not here to confront sunni muslim terrorist groups like i.s.i.s.. so what are we doing? we want intel presence in the n region we want to protect the kurdish minority in northern iraq and in syria. we would like an airbase at al-

assad. but at some point we need to question the values of strategic purpose that we are up to. >> i want to play a little more of what sabrina told me along similar lines. take a listen. >> i don't necessarily agree that we are in a wider regional conflict. yes, we have seen an increase as in cadence from these-backed groups and their attacks on our forces. but we have seen this before. so we do not seek a wider conflict. we do not seek war with iran. we've been very public in our messaging on that. that is not something that we th want to see. the conflict that is in gaza has been contained to gaza. >> what do you make of all of that and is that your expectation that there will be a bigger response from the proxies, rand if that happens, what prevents more u.s. deaths? >> first of all i think that the war in gaza has inflamed tensions throughout the region. so there iois no question that is kerosene being poured on

kohl's and many informed observers think that hezbollah could possibly be about to enter the war. that would be a fight for israel's existence, and it would undoubtedly draw us into the conflict. but the notion that it is just gaza is also nonsense. iran has a long term strategic content to dominate the region, the so-called shia crescent, both politically, economically, and militarily. so when gaza's war stops and it will stop at some point, the day the war is over, iran is still there, and the sunni muslim nations, egypt, jordan, et cetera. >> all right. mccaffrey, always a pleasure despite the content of our discussions. thank you. coming up later this hour, i

will speak with iranian american writer and msnbc contributor about how those strikes are being seen in iran. the retaliation in the u.s., and a lot more. by all accounts it will not be a nail-biter for president biden in south carolina but his voters head to the polls. they do have other options. it is important to note that. what are voters saying about that? we are back in a60 seconds. 6.

>> i don't see why people support him, i don't see why people support donald trump. he is probably going to be indicted before he is president. >> he is a liar, he's a cheater. >> he has known health issues. and he has more gas than biden does. >> lesson four hours left in the primaries, voters have been headed to the puzzle day where president biden stands as the overwhelming favorite against

minnesota congressman, dean phillips, and author marion williamson. our team of nbc news journalist covering those primaries from cities across the state, we are going to begin with nbc's gabe gutierrez and south carolina. gabe, what are you hearing from voters, and has it picked up at all? those coming into play service? >> hi, alex. they've been few and far between, we've been speaking over the last several hours, as you can see behind me, not a whole lot of activity going on in this polling location. but we have been speaking with people throughout the day that we're very excited to vote for president biden, and that makes sense, this is not a competitive primary. those you would find here are those that are most enthusiastic by making sure that they cast their ballot for president biden. i asked one of those voters, pandora parker this morning about why she was here earlier this morning. take a listen to what she had to say. >> are you excited to vote for president biden? >> yes, i am.

i am, i think that patients is -- i've been a long long enough to see that there is change with time. so, younger voters might not be so aggressive to do that. but i am patient, and i have seen what can be done. so i'm inside about the future. >> alex, as you know, south carolina was the state that in 2020 gave the biden campaign that jolt of energy that eventually catapulted it to the nomination. eventually, the oval office. now, the question is, by the end of the day here, it is a test of the biden campaign in terms of enthusiasm. will voters here, that includes young black voters, will they turn out and will they turn out this november and keep battleground states? that is an open question right now. yesterday, i was at south carolina state university. i spoke with some of those young students who said that while they supported the biden

and harris campaign. they were not necessarily excited to vote, and that could prove a major problem for the biden campaign, as we head into november. >> certainly looking at that. thank you very much, game gutierrez. we will go to nbc's tremaine lee who is joining us from charleston. you are in a county where the 2020 voter turnout was the second highest in the whole state. how about the atmosphere today? what are you seeing in the area? >> that is >> reporter: right. we've been out there all day. we've seen voters trickling in and we have seen a wave of voters for the most part now, the rush is kind of cold so the question that gabe brought up about the excitement around black voters in particular is their enthusiasm for joe biden and while there is skepticism or some lack of excitement among some demographics among these black voters, some black male voters in particular, almost to a person i spoke to today seemed excited and mission driven. take a listen. >> he has done marvelous things

throughout the years that he was in there. he will continue doing what he is doing. >> i don't think he did anything wrong. he didn't get to do anything major that we might've wanted. but we have all of the other candidates. they are worrying, they're not worried about fixing america they are worried about closing the border. what is it going to help to you for us? >> while they have a few colliding narratives in terms of the excitement and support for joe biden, those who are here today made sure their voices are heard that they have been tucked in and plugged into some of the process, they believe that the biden administration has achieved over the course of the last four years. while we are still parsing out how black voters feel, those who came here today were very excited. >> okay. well, thank you very much for that. speaking of excited, tomorrow, tremaine, we are excited to share that people can join you as well as civil rights attorney, charles coleman junior, for an msnbc special,

black men in america, the road to 2024. they will offer a candid look at america through the eyes of black male voters. speaking with house democratic leader, hakeem jeffries, platinum recording artist, jeezy, reverend al sharpton, and a lot more. that is tomorrow, and pm eastern on msnbc. it will also be streaming on peacock. so, by now, the self proclaimed gop, rather god's army is at the texas border. the big question? what now, after passing through dripping springs, a live report, next. 5g network. solution for us? e

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i'm also a father raising two kids in the city. deeply concerned that city hall is allowing crime and lawlessness to spread. now we can do something about it by voting yes on prop e. a common sense solution that ensures we use community safety cameras to catch repeat offenders and hold them accountable. vote yes on e. >> how critical will the blackmail vote before democrats or republicans? >> what is it about our lenses blackmon in 2024 than we access see it differently? >> brothers all across the country feel like democrats are not doing enough. >> there's a lot of people saying i don't know about the democratic party.

>> everybody has a lot to say, but who are they talking to? >> has america made good on its promise to black men? >> we have breaking news, 28 past the hour, the u.s. has struck houthi missiles targeting red sea ships today. back with me now, general mccaffrey, retired four star general, and now msnbc military analyst. general, welcome. i want to make a point and distinguish the fact that these are self-defense of strikes that we have been seeing. this is the kind of thing that's been happening in the red sea region for some while. this is different and separate from what is happening in response to the killing of those three american soldiers last weekend there in jordan. give me your assessment of how long this is going to go on, and the kind of damage that the houthi strikes could inflict on ships there in the region, thus warranting this kind of deterred action by the united

states? >> there is a great amount of u.s. naval power in the region, destroyers, strike groups, eisenhower is still in the region, there is a bunch of u.s. air force power, regionally based as well as nato, which where they're refuelling, they could clearly have strikes as far south as yemen. so we had the power there to take action. this is self defensive strikes, intelligence which is blanketing the area, and picking up these missiles. the electronic signature before they are fired. you can't get ahead of the game, however, unless you tell the u.s. navy and air force you have 30 days to grade your capabilities, go to it. we have not done that yet. the shipping is already in a major way constrained through the sewage canal in the indian ocean. a lot of the big shippers have already decided to go around after adding thousands of miles

in huge costs. the egyptians have remained mute, we do have a coalition of allies supporting us. but only the brits are there with military force. so it is still a perilous situation. i would argue, alex, it is connected to these strikes on tower 22. again, this is iran regional coordination orchestration and army of training, the proxy forces to take action and become a dominant regional military and political power. >> okay, general mccaffrey, thank you so much for weighing in on this breaking development. we appreciate that. as if the saturday afternoon was not busy enough, we have more breaking news to share. this is the battle of immigration that is playing out right now at the u.s. and mexico border in texas as a convoy of more than 100 vehicles has arrived near eagle pass. members in that convoy are calling themselves gods army. they are gathering today and

rallying for tighter border security. we've got priscilla thompson and, texas. that's about half an hour south from eagle pass. priscilla, tell us about the rally and the crowd there and what the point of it all is. >> yes, alex. the theme here is to quote, take our border back. it is one of three events that is happening near the u.s., mexico border. there is one in arizona, one in california, and one here in texas. i will step aside and give you a look, you can see maybe there is 100 people here. there have been speakers onstage right now talking about their concerns around the border. a lot of talk about human trafficking, drugs, issues like that, earlier today they were listening to worship music and praying here. that is really the message from organizers today that this is intended to be a peaceful assembly. i know that there were concerns online with some rhetoric calling for civil war in violence. that is not what we are seeing on the ground.

have been talking to these folks who've come all over texas, even other parts of the country to be here. even though we are about a half hour from eagle pass, some of them have driven down to eagle pass to see what is happening at the border. i was talking to a number of people who said they're a bit surprised by what they are seeing here. i want to play conversation with a woman, misty, take a listen. >> it has been pretty surreal. we actually made it into eagle pass, we went and saw shelley park, i was able to see some people actually trying to cross and stop at the wire there. so it is very eye-opening. >> tell me more about eye- opening. is it what you expected? is it better? is it worse? >> it is not what i expected, but i don't know what i expected. i can tell you that it is not as bad as what i thought, so that is kind of eye-opening in itself. >> alex, i've spoken to several people who have said that they were surprised. they thought they were gonna see something else. that is not what they are

seeing here. it is important to know that border patrol apprehensions were actually down more than 50% in january, compared to in december. but i think all of these folks are still saying the system is broken and something needs to be done to fix it. there are some people who are calling for a complete shutdown of the border regardless of asylum. there are other people who are saying they don't know what the solution is but something has to be done. alex? >> priscilla thompson with the latest there from texas, thank you. we have breaking developments and details in the aftermath of u.s. retaliatory airstrikes. what is around thinking today? perspective on that, next. tha.

two leading candidates for senate.

two very different visions for california. steve garvey, the leading republican, is too conservative for california. he voted for trump twice and supported republicans for years, including far right conservatives. adam schiff, the leading democrat, defended democracy against trump and the insurrectionists. he helped build affordable housing, lower drug costs, and bring good jobs back home. the choice is clear. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. >> 36 past with this breaking news the official telling nbc news that iraq was notified before the u.s. air strikes on iranian-backed militias in that country despite iraq's claims to the contrary. it is spokesman for the iraqi armed forces called the strikes a threat that will drag iraq

and the region into unforeseen consequences. we also heard from the president of iran, abraham racy, before those strikes were carried out who had this warning. >> [speaking in a global language] >> joining me now is msnbc contributor. welcome to you, sir. we will talk about retribution after the u.s. strikes that killed -- in 2020. that was during the trump administration. more than 100 u.s. service members suffered traumatic brain injuries when iran fired missiles into iraq. how big of a concern is there about retribution now? >> a concern on the u.s. side, or on the iranian side?

>> go ahead. the iranians fully expected this to happen. we telegraphed it for three days, basically, that we were going to be hitting what were called their proxies. aaron makes no secret of the fact that they support these militias, iraqi militias in the region. some of which, one of which at least is actually part of the iraqi government, which is outlined to both iran and the u.s.. but they expected this, they withdrew their main forces out of the areas which were targeted last night. so his successor, and his deputy were back in tehran last night. so they were safe. other irgc commanders also had left. i think that it was probably intentional on the biden administration's part to not kill iranians, or at least not kill senior arena's, which would require some kind of response from iran.

so far, iran has not indicated at all that it intends to respond, and the people i speak to, there is no panic that this is going to escalate much further at this point. there is concern, there is worry, but there is not panic. and the only concern would be that the biden administration said about this not being the only time, and the only thing that the u.s. takes, and commits to over iraq and syria. >> when you say that the iraqi, iranian senior leadership was safe in tyrion. for how long, how long will the border of iran stay free from u.s. entanglement militarily speaking? >> i can't imagine the biden administration made it very clear, they want to go to war. because you attack iran, you bomb iran, which some of the republican senators are asking

for, a direct attack on tehran. i think on iranian assets and side of the border. that is an active war. hitting militias that are not state controlled, it is not an active war necessarily. i am no legal expert, but hitting another sovereign nation, member of the united nations, attacking and killing its people, i think is an active war that the iranian regime would have to react to rather forcefully. there is a lot of americans, not just the handful of troops which may be in northern iraq. there's a lot of americans, contractors, soldiers, embassies, all over the region which are very vulnerable. and iran knows those vulnerabilities. i don't think that iran intended to ask it's -- or i don't think it actually did ask hezbollah to fire drones and with the intent to kill americans. but i think it happened, and it is something that they fully expected the u.s. to respond in the matter that they did

respond. so far, as far as we know, and there could be more news later, no iranian irgc senior member has been killed in this latest strike by the u.s.. an irgc member was killed by an israeli strike, but that is a whole different story. >> we'll ask about hezbollah in just a moment but let me ask about the iranian ship that's currently in the red sea. if the u.s. were to strike that, destroy that, would iran consider that a active war? >> sure. sure. if iran struck an american ship in any international waters, would that be an active war on an american flagship, i mean? yes. it would be an active war. absolutely. i have no doubt that the iranians would consider that an act of war. how they would respond, i am not sure. and i know that there has been murmurs by certain people, that we should take out those ships in the red sea, the iranian

military ships and their spy ships, in the red sea. but that would be an escalation that would be far, far bigger in escalation than what we did last night in going after the people who did kill american soldiers. >> that faction of hezbollah backed by iran released a statement, the one you mentioned, here's our statement right now, saying they would suspend attacks on the u.s. in order to prevent embarrassment to the iraqi government. john kirby dismissed that. but today, the group put a video statement out which appears to have been filmed three weeks ago saying americans will see days they will never forget throughout history. what do you make of that, and what kind of threat did this group specifically pose? >> there is no shortage of rhetoric in the region, as we know on all sides, basically. but mostly from these militias. but actions speak louder than words, they spoke loud when they killed three americans. i don't know if they intended to kill three americans, or

more americans, or whether the previous drones that have been intercepted that they fired off, they assume that this was also going to be that kind of situation. clearly, something big happened as far as the u.s. is concerned, that required a response from the u.s., and i do not think, their words especially since it was recorded a while ago, really mean that much. we should remember that the leader of hezbollah. the group that took responsibility for hitting the tower 22, was killed alongside when trump assassinated him. they were in a car together on the roof of the baghdad airport to see the prime minister of iraq when they were both assassinated. so, this group does have some beef with the united states for having killed their previous leader. >> i will welcome you anytime you have the time to join us here on the broadcast, thank you for sharing what you know today.

i appreciate that. meantime, he's one of the first attorneys to make donald trump a. now he's written a book about. it what can you learn today about the collapse of trump university if you years back, the attorney and author joins me next. me next.

>> at trump university, we teach success. that is what it is all about. success. it is going to happen to you. if you don't learn from them, if you don't learn from me, if you don't learn from the people that we are going to be putting forward, and these are all people that are handpicked by me, then you just are not going to make it in terms of the world of success. i think that the biggest step toward success is going to be signing up to trump university. >> yeah, the thousands of people who were ripped off by donald trump's defunct fraudulent big business school at trump university might disagree with his lessons for success. that 2015 trump university case was at the time that trump's

first and only major legal lost. a new book by the attorney who took on and beat trump in that case offers a playbook for how prosecutors can do the same in their cases against the former president. joining me now is former new york assistant attorney general, tristan snell, author of taking down trump 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by someone who did it successfully. big welcome. we will talk about the book in a second. i have to say, i enjoyed the smiles on your face on sewer listening to donald trump in that self promoting thing about fraudulent university. but let me ask you about fani willis, because the situation there, she's now admitted that she, indeed, is now in a relationship with, a personal relationship with a special prosecutor in the case, and willis argues the relationship is not corrupting her ability to oversee the case. but from what you see, has she violated any legal ethics and would it be something that would be either disqualifying to her case, or for the betterment of that case should she step aside?

give me your thoughts. >> as to whether it is a legal issues for the state of georgia to decide, i really feel like that is a bureaucratic question that is completely separate from the merits of this case. and we are talking about something that is, you know, it could be something significant. i have no idea. the kicker is that the gravity and the weight and size of this case against trump is in completely different proportion to anything that willis may or may not have done here with her relationship here. >> okay. we will get to the book now, taking down trump, it is a five- year bid that you had to hold donald trump accountable as you faced him. tactics that we've all become familiar with we can look at it forever. attacking plaintiffs, accusing a judge of being biased against him, we've heard that time and time again. let's take a listen to part of trump's deposition in the case. here is part of that. >> you cannot answer the question as to whether or not

educators deliver less than promised for more money it is fraud. i would say it is not fraud. >> yet you have written this particular case almost didn't happen? >> many times. it almost didn't happen. there were a lot of internal political battles to actually get this thing out to see the light of day. and a lot of what i write about in the book is how do we actually get these prosecutors, whether they are elected or appointed to have the courage and the assertiveness to get in there and actually bring the case which is separate from the merits. we will assume there are merits. if there are not merits, the case shall not be brought. a lot of these other cases that we have seen, doj and the fbi, held up the january 6th

investigation of trump and his inner circle. they did not really dig into that investigation for a whole year until i think the january 6th committee forced their hand. we saw it with alvin bragg where basically the trump case was put on hold for a year. then he brought it back. public pressure is a big part of how you make these cases go. >> but that is something that jack smith has shied away from. so what do you think about his tactic relative to that? >> i think the key there is that the doj is going to be very sensitive to this because it is the biden administration and you are not going to see anything look like they are trying to politicize this case. and they shouldn't because it would be a proper and it could backfire on them with the election and everything else. i do think that jack smith, this is one of the biggest rules in the book, i think they need to really push out there in the media while these trials are going on. don't make it political, but

share with people of the facts and the d.c. case we will not have cameras in the courtroom. we will have print reporters do their best to relate to all of us what was going on inside of that courtroom. then donald trump is going to be out there on the courthouse steps with his lawyers lying, lying, lying the whole time and twisting everything. we need to make sure that doj is out there but there has to be people out there that are media savvy, that will be able to factually and clearly explain to everybody what was going on in that courtroom. >> kind of what we saw -- >> i think they did a great job of that. doj needs to do the same thing. >> let me ask you about the book, you have 12 rules, this is how you go about doing it when you take down donald trump. or any of the cases out there right now following your playbook? >> i would say pretty much most of them are. i do think that there's some things like what i want to see from doj, not that it is up to me. but it would be great to see from doj that they actually

really tell the story, >> reporter: they did do a good job of that in the indictment, i think that the indictment was very clear. you didn't need to be a lawyer to understand what was going on with it but we need to see them make that case to the people because we are not going to be able to see what is going on in the courtroom. but what we've seen with the courtroom has been happening. and that is why the cases are being successful. >> that is why it comes to the e. jean carroll case? >> now we are starting to see so many people follow those rules that we are seeing private litigants. i think we saw an even greater example on it with a new

verdict. >> this is a great book. for those who are not -- you can read all about it in the book, that would be a good tactic, thank you so much. we will see you again soon, the book, taking down trump, 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by somebody who did it successfully. we will go to 2024, new today, vice president is ramping up staff at campaign headquarters in -- where voters are headed to the polls and the democratic primary. we also have new polling from pennsylvania. joining me now is the lieutenant governor of pennsylvania, austin davis. welcome austin it is good to see you. this has trump leading very slightly. give us how worried president biden should be about pennsylvania in november. >> thank you for having me,

alex, it is great to be with you. the reality is that pennsylvania is a purple state. we are a swing state. but i think president biden is in a great position here in the commonwealth of pennsylvania. they know that joe biden, and his white house have been delivering time and time again for all of us. i just had an announcement earlier this week of 100 and $32 million in pittsburgh to rebuild some of our biggest, and most structurally talented bridges here. and he has delivered time and time again. so i think when the contrast becomes clear between him and donald trump, i think that president biden will ultimately be victorious here in pennsylvania. but we have to work hard, we can't take any group for granted, that is exactly what the president has been doing. if you noticed, he has visited pennsylvania, i think almost a dozen times since the beginning of the year. >> since the actions on south carolina today, you talk about

working hard this week. the biggest focus has been on black voters. a research center poll found 48% of black americans nationally approve the biden 49% though disapprove was down from a year ago. is there a different story to tell in south carolina? >> i had a great opportunity to campaign for the president in south carolina on wednesday. let's take a step back for a moment. this president and this white house has made tremendous progress for black americans and young people. wages are up and inflation is down. small businesses are booming and manufacturing jobs are coming back. again i think that when the contrast is clear joe biden, between joe biden and donald trump, black americans know who delivers for them. that is joe biden every day of the week. >> how can president biden win it over these voters? i mean, how important is it that he and the campaign identify why they may be straying from him? >> yeah. i think that we need to continue as democrats to show up and not take any group for

granted. that is what president biden has done time and time again. if you look, in elevating the south carolina primary is an example of that. he has centered the voices of black and brown voters to make sure that they are at the beginning of our primary process and not at the end like it had been in the past years. this election is going to be about a vision for america and who's going to protect their fundamental rights and freedoms. the contrast is clear that donald trump will not. he wants to rollback those fundamental rights and freedoms. joe biden has every day stood up . that contrast will be clear. by the time we get to november, president biden will win the black americans overwhelmingly. >> we will see you again, thank you, that will do it. my friend ali velshi picks up our coverage, next. coverage, n

i'm daniel lurie and i've spent my career fighting poverty, helping people right here in san francisco. i'm also a father raising two kids in the city. deeply concerned that city hall

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