love. sure. the question is, she set a really high standard. >> but she's been convicted of murder? >> but i know in my heart that she didn't do it. >> craig's sister, robin, is left trying to make sense of it all. the darkness that destroyed that big family, of family that once had so much ambition and promise. >> it's just heartbreaking. nobody wins. nobody wins in this. >> this is a family divided like no other. >> yeah. >> that's all for this edition of dateline, i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. melvin, thank you for watching. good morning, look to this sunday edition of morning joe: weekend. it's a fast-moving week of news here and around the world.

here are some of the key conversations you might have missed. oklahoma is calling out republicans who are openly criticizing the bipartisan bill on the border without even reading it. >> not only the leaders, fellow republicans, but you have people on all of the networks that you would expect, all of the pro trump networks, lying through their teeth. you've got these clowns that bounce around and do whatever trump tells them to do. this is the worst deal ever. this will ruin america. haven't even read the bill. again, republicans in the states, toughest security brought -- bill ever. >> when you have people like the senator who has been right wing as long as you can track him, saying that this is the toughest bill we can get, and then everyone flips because donald trump says, no, i want

an issue. mind you, and issue to run against joe biden. forget about the issue. forget about what it's causing the country, i need this for political reasons, it shows you why this is confirmation, this is a cult. this is no longer political. >> i have great confirmation of. that oklahoma republican party, they are now censoring their most conservative national politician. not because he crossed on trump, but because he drafted a bill that donald trump decided after is drafting and negotiating but he didn't like. >> it's actually incredible. do you remember some of these bills that donald trump ran when there was a horrible murder in iowa by a migrant of an ayo woman? run that ad over and over and over. if there is a really bad incident from this bill doesn't

go, is he just trying to give joe biden and issue? you know, i'm thinking back to something that president george w. bush said years ago. this is easy to solve. immigration actually is not that complicated. both sides have their own incentives not to solve it. that's what we're seeing right now. >> as you and rev both say, it's a tough celtics call him a liberal switch. judy something good for joe biden, that's not exactly who he is that all. now, they've taken to misrepresenting the bill, twitch, by the way, as a senator, said they did not read. they've hurt snippets from it. there's been 5000 migrants crossing illegally every day, which senator lankford goes, no, it doesn't. now they're misrepresenting a little bit about that they know on the surface of donald trump. >> jonathan lemire, still with, us joining the conversation we have. associate editor for the washington post, david ignatius and former chief of staff to

the dccc, senior aide to the hillary clinton and biden presidential campaigns, adrienne elrod is with us this morning. good to have you both with us. so, the house has passed a bipartisan tax bill yesterday, which explains eligibility for the child tax credit program and adjust payments for inflation. not person groups estimate this could left about 400,000 children out of poverty. it also restores some corporate tax cuts that were implemented during the trump administration, but have since expired. the bill now heads to the senate where republicans have voiced opposition. senator chuck grassley of iowa criticize the measure saying that it could help president biden's reelection campaign. there we go again. >> what is going on? >> what is wrong? telling senator yesterday, quote, passing a tax bill that makes the president look good, mailing out checks before the election means he could be

reelected. and then we won't extend the 2017 tax cuts. it's important to note that the bill does not include a check for americans. we will also note that in march of 2020, just ahead of the presidential election, congress approved a two trillion dollar covid relief bill that included a 1200 dollar check for americans. the democrat-controlled house overwhelmingly him approved that legislation and then president trump was quick to take credit for it, signing the checks himself. >> yeah, such hypocrisy. >> a group of prominent social media ceos face bipartisan anger on capitol hill yesterday in a hearing before the senate judiciary committee. >> senators confronted the tech leaders for not doing enough to protect young people from the dangers of their black forms, including sexual predators, addicted features, cyberbullying. those testifying for the ceos of meta, x, tiktok, snap and

discord. matt a c e, mark zuckerberg, faced the toughest question at one point at the prodding of republican senator josh hawley of missouri, zuckerberg turned around to apologize to the parents of children who were victimized by sexual exploitation. take a look. >> there's families of victims here today, have you apologized to the victims? would you like to do so now? they are here. you are national television. would you like now to apologize to the victims who have been harmed? she'll them the pictures. would you like to apologize for what you've done to these good people? [inaudible] >> for the things your family have suffered. it's why we've invested so much. but we have efforts to make sure that no one else has to go

through the things the families here -- had to suffer. >> when a boeing plane lasted or in midflight several weeks ago, nobody questioned the decision to ground a fleet of over 700 planes. so, why aren't we taking the same type of decisive action on the danger of these platforms when we know these kids are dying? >> there are a lot that are slipping through. it appears that you are trying to be the premier sex trafficking site. >> of course not, senator. senator, that's ridiculous. >> no, it's not ridiculous. you want to turn around and tell these people -- >> platforms -- >> why don't you take it down? we are here discussing. we need you to work with us. no, you're not! >> mr. does zuckerberg, you and the companies before us, i know you don't mean to tend to do, so you have blood on your hands.

you have your product. you have a product that is killing people. >> actually, i don't think it's fair to say they don't mean it. i don't think that's fair to say it all. i mean, if you know it's happening, if you have studies that show that your product leads to suicide, just suicidal ideations, to anxiety, to depression especially in young girls, and you know that and you hide that information, sounds a lot like cigarette companies back in the 1950s and 1960s. if you have somebody running -- really, from that to protecting democracy in 2016, they had somebody on the inside saying, you guys are making it two easy for russia and other foreign countries to interfere with

american democracy. and then, cheryl sandberg screamed at the guy for saying that in front of the board. like, they know this stuff. they've known it. when all he says is, it's important to us to. that's why we are investing. now, it is not. by their actions, it just doesn't look like it matters to them at all because, again, they have an internal report telling them all of the stuff. what do they do about it? >> people don't have to take your word for. it facebook whistleblowers come out and testify before congress. we've seen, as you said, internal documents of instagram and facebook that show that they know what this stuff is doing to young people. they know what the stuff is doing to young girls. they know the impact that it has. but it's about the bottom line. these are the wealthiest people in the world. from some of the most successful companies in the world. the algorithm, the addiction is the point.

to get people in and keep them there is the point. they know works, especially, nika, with young people. they might do some stuff around the edges to make a safer, but they are not going to impact the bottom line. >> when you see such a bipartisan show of understanding of the dangers of social media companies, i just wonder why the can't get to the point of these companies can be sued. >> jonathan, because of the money, because they all talk. >> that's what needs to happen. >> we'll talk a good game. but when you even try to hold these companies accountable, and get rid of section 2:30, and all your trying to do is make these companies lived by the same rules as every other company in america lives by. and when you do that, they go crazy. and then they fight checks that members of congress, in the house and the senate, and

everybody compliantly goes along, no matter what is happening. no matter what their ignoring. no matter what public health care prices they are causing. >> yet, taken in isolation, what happened in the senate yesterday was a bright spot. it's a rare moment of bipartisanship. it felt like the public good was doing good. it contrasts what we're seeing in the house here, not just killing the border, build but trying to impeach homeland security mayorkas, pushing forward with hunter biden and the impeachment inquiry. clean bogged down with politics did feel like yesterday something good was happening. at the same time, we've been here before. every so often, duties tech leaders and ceos get holdup before congress, they say the right thing, everyone feels better about it for a few minutes, and then it goes away. dew point in the campaign contributions continue. there is a limit to what this administration can do. on its own. there's only so much executive authority that can be done, regulation point put in place. it's gonna need congress to act. maybe, look, maybe we will be

wrong. maybe tomorrow as the start of something. i think skepticism prevails. >> you know,, jonathan what you just said on tv, it shows for five, maybe six people, who come from a zip code in this country in silicon valley that has some of the brightest, youngest, wealthiest human beings on the face of the earth. largely younger than a lot of people that have made filibusters from sells by altering algorithms on a daily basis to help young people on to their products. if they're not of young people facing, products they beef up the algorithm to get more clicks. adrian, when i look at pieces of the hearing that you heard yesterday, the thing that struck me is all parents out there that were not represented yesterday by the families that have lost children, many of them yesterday, but all of the working parents in this country who are too busy to be monitoring their kids all day long because they both have jobs, to job calmly, and they

have eight-year-olds with ipads and nine-year-olds whistle phones and no idea of what their children are looking at. >> yeah, that's exactly right, mike. that's what i think you actually saw a rare moment of bipartisanship where you have lindsey graham, amy klobuchar, both agreeing with the fact that these companies have to be regulated. i thought klobuchar's comparison to what recently happened with the boeing jet, congress immediately acted on that. there was no question. they had to be more regulations on the airline industry. you compare that to the tech industry, it's night and day. i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that congress is continuing to try to catch up and trying to keep up the pace of what is continuously happening in the tech industry. they are constantly changing the way algorithms work. they're changing the way they disseminate this information and congress is trying to keep that. you saw a very rare moment of

bipartisanship. this is something that truly unites everyone in this country, no matter what party affiliation you have because there are so many kids out there who are on their smartphones all day, on social media. it's really hard for parents to regulate what they are looking at. >> coming, up trump's legal bills begin to pile up after a record payout in the e. jean carroll decision. that discussion is straight ahead. rroll decision. that discussion is straight ahead. knows it's easy to get lost in investment research. get help with j.p morgan personal advisors. hey, david! ready to get started? work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. so great getting to know you, let's take a look at your new investment plan. ok, great! this should have you moving in the right direction. thanks jen. get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain

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we are learning about just how much money donald trump paid in legal fees last year. from where that money came. according to two new york times sources. the former president spent about $50 million in donor money on legal expenses. in 2023. this was done largely third one of his political action committees, save america, when the groups funds nearly dried up last, year trump reportedly

asked for a refund of $60 million, which he initially transfer to another pack meant to support his 2024 campaign. the times also reports that for every dollar donated to his campaign align, trump has directed that ten cents go to his pack footing his legal bills. yesterday, his last remaining opponent in the republican primary race, nikki haley, reacted to that new report writing on x, quote, another reason donald trump won't debate me. his pack spent 50 million in campaign dollars on his legal fees. he can't beat joe biden if he spending all of his time and money on court cases and chaos. >> rev, $50 million of your supporters donations going to legal fees. i think nikki haley has raised 50 million in total. she is running on the campaign. again, you look at the money that he spent on this legal

fees. also, look at the poor quality of his attorneys as well. you wonder, where did all of this money go? >> it's baffling. when you look at what he's getting in court, in terms of these attorneys, they are horrible. $50 million on what? i mean, it's absolutely outrageous. then, we are looking today for the possibility that the judge may come back with the answer on the civil suit by new york state attorney general letitia james and where she is asking for 300 and $70 million in damages and the judge could also rule to trump organization can no longer be run by donald trump. so, he could have to deal by the end of the week another devastating blow that he's going to have to need a lot more money with more money owed than he is going to have to call upper find somebody who's half crazy that will lend him the money.

some loaning institution. $50 million may not be the end of the road in terms of what he's going to need. >> jonathan, there is a reason why he goes to the civil trials and why they're such body blows to him. not just politically, but more personally than anything else because, you, know the criminal charges, 91 counts. that probably seem abstract right now. we've already said villa thing that matters to donald trump's money. he lost $83 million. he's probably going to lose a court of a billion dollars today. as rob said, probably not going to be able to run his businesses here. you know, he is going to have to find the money to post the bond. in new york city stop loaning to him a long time ago. >> a long time ago. every time he makes an appearance at one of these trials and steps outside the courtroom, speaks to reporters, within minutes, a fundraising

email comes out from the campaign to all supporters. it's like clockwork. that's why he's. they're at the clip of the fiery speech that they can broadcast out and conservative media, on truth social, rally the troops, it's about raising money because he needs it. the reporting here is that it's like a tenth of every dollar that he is racist content legal fees. one of the super pacs has been exclusively devoted to that. it's like $50 million or more. that numbers only going to rise as a legal cases like forward. >>, manpower to see find them, the lawyers, at this point, who would want to represent him? he has to be the worst client ever. >> he's been saying that for years. >> it appears attorney alina habba will not be representing trump at his appeal of the e. jean carroll defamation damages case. trump posted on social media late last night that he is interviewing law firms to represent him. the post came just hours after habba walked back a conflict of interest claim against judge

lewis kaplan who presided over the trial and carols attorney, roberta kaplan, and their relation. because both had worked at the same large law firm in the 1990s. herbert kaplan fired back yesterday calling the allegations, utterly basis. she also threatened to file sanctions against habba over the allegations. so, alexi, you asked in your latest prompt, jeff question? >> they just shoot them miles off, alexi. they just shoot their mouths off. again, it just keeps costing them money. when i say they, i'm talking about trumpers everywhere. look at rudy giuliani, shoots his mouth off lies, ruin women's lives and now he's facing bankruptcy. donald trump, who knows, it see facing bankruptcy? he just kept shooting his mouth off. he kept being warned. just wouldn't listen. now, you have trump's attorney shooting their mouth off about

a judge, about a judge who does that? and then has to walk it back because it just wasn't true. >> yeah, look, they all have to follow exactly how donald trump behaves. apparently, alina habba was putting on a different type of performance when trump was in the courtroom versus when he wasn't. i think it's also remarkable, as we're talking about how much money he has owed already, how much money he stands to pay up in the future for continuing to just run his mouth. it's remarkable, not just the other day, he saying to nikki haley's donors,, so if you keep donating to, hurt your barred from that maga movement. don't come to me. don't give me your money. it's no good here. as if he has and listen amounts of money to pay for all of these legal fees and damages and things that keep coming up in court. as you said, what hurts him most is losing money. and losing. that is what e. jean carroll's case and others have proven time and again. it's remarkable that the former president of the united states, the republican front runner for their nominee tb president, is

found in court to be a liar, a rapist by judge kaplan, and a loser, time and time again. >> again, it's the representation and the process that i wonder throughout this whole second defamation damages trial, the whole process with e. jean carroll, donald trump not think that he was making matters worse for himself as he continued to defame her? it is his attorneys not tell him to stop? did they think that that was cool? alexi, when alina habba came out of court after the most epic loss that i think a manhattan courtroom has seen in terms of devin the nation damage is just going from 1 to 2, to, 3 to 4, to 5 million, all the way to 83.3 million, probably because of this man's behavior. and then she starts screaming at reporters jittery. i'm just not sure where things begin or and in trump's legal

team. is he worried a little bit, possibly, about litigation that he hasn't had since his lawyers are so horrific? >> clearly, he sees a need to have a different type of legal counsel. one thing we have learned through this is that whether it is trump or his legal team, they have certainly changed the way that the legal system works or the way that you can operate in a courtroom. they are not above the law. that is certainly true with donald trump in this case, in future cases. that's true with someone like alina habba, who proudly briggs that she would rather be pretty and smart. i think we all learned just recently that she is maybe one of those things, certainly not the other. donald trump, of course, needs to find different legal counsel. that doesn't mean he will change. he will keep doing exactly what he's doing when he gets in front of his supporters, who knows what he will say? it's not just on truth social, as we all know. look, he 77. i don't know how many senate binney seven-year-olds are interesting in growth and change at this point in their

lives. >> yeah, well, might be interested in bankruptcy lawyers. >> alexi buchanan, thank you very much. >> still ahead -- as investor sentiments cole soars, christine romans talks to us about how the biden administration plans to spread the good news about the american economy. the american economy. a migraine can treat when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. with the majority of my patients with sensitivity i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum and enamel it relieves sensitivity helps restore gum health and rehardens enamel. i am a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell?

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but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire we're starting to see real evidence that america [inaudible] real confidence in our economy we're building. physically he, congressional count. the anything that he wants to be congratulated? >> i hope it's going to be the next 12 months because i don't want to be hoover. >> donald trump knows this economy is good, strong, getting stronger. he knows that ball is good for

america, it's bad for him politically. >> president joe biden on saturday, denouncing those recent comments made by donald trump. joining us now, senior correspondent christine romans. she has a new piece on embassy news.com about how confidence is growing inside the white house when it comes to president biden's economic message. christine, great to have you, by the way. ristine, great to h by the way. >> i just was gets so worried about being confident about an akot -- so many competing factors globally. what's driving this confidence? >> i want to be very clear, nika, no one wants to declare victory saying the work is done. on the contrary, i think there's a lot more work to be done and they are pushing their agenda that way. you are looking more recently at some of the economic numbers that almost every inflation measure is improving. the economy in the fourth quarter flesher compared to the year before, a solid 3.1% gdp

growth. in a year, mika, that they were all kinds of recession calls. remember, that never happened. spence and time is mansell vein you're talking to a business owner who prepared for a recession and had a great year. he hired people. he had more people, if he could find the. top line, bottom line growth. what else knows this? in the white house, they're growing more optimistic that the situation on the ground is going to catch up to their months and months of messaging. >> adrienne elrod, her last job was chips lady. heading up communications for the presidents chips program is a long list to break about, for sure, in this administration. i guess i ask you the same thing. how should the biden administration, sort of, walk that fine line of bragging but still, of course, pointing out how much more needs to be done or preparing for the

unexpected? >> yeah, mika, that's exactly right. the numbers are really incredible, considering the fact that we were just in a pandemic several years ago. the fact that many economists didn't think we were going to keep going into a recession. because the legislation, for major economic bills that biden pass, 14.3 million jobs, a lot of those in the manufacturing sector, gdp is up. inflation is going. down all of the numbers are looking really, really good. trending forward. two point, to christine's point, not every single american is feeling this. inflation embers are still high. they are coming. down christen, i'm chris curious to because that, is the white house talking about you how they want to say, okay, so we are giving ourselves, you know, well-served credit for a lot of these strong numbers, but how do we make it clear to a lot of americans that there are still work to do and what is that work that they are talking about? >> they want to keep lowering costs. you heard about junk fees and overdraft fees. they say that there will be more of these announcement where they're trying to figure out laura cost for americans. there will be more of that in the weeks ahead. you are absolutely right about

the price pressure problem. it's interesting. of shocking to joy who are saying, we don't talk about inflation pikas inflation rates are things that policy mocks care about. i talk about price, the price of eggs. that is why so many people don't fear of. rate their grocery bills are higher today than it was three years ago. even though gas prices are's are down, that grocery bill has been a real, real problem. it will take time and it will take more progress on inflation, for a big swath of america really believe the economy is getting better. >> to christine's point, the price is still high, even as inflation has cooled. we saw consumer sentiment numbers go up. it certainly adding to the confidence that the biden administration has that the economy is going to do well this year. this year as the president by spurt reelection. one thing that is a concern, all of this is good news. there were the voters, even voters starting to feeling better about the economy, won't give joe biden credit for it. that's, like, a different step. will they be able to make that

connection to say, hey, this white house has done a good job and they worry that they look back, fondly, at the trump economy, even though, of course, we know that trump dramatically in place how success was. >> that's democratic pandering. >> they're prostitute. >> it's the party of pandering. i think you can see the biggest and indicated that the economy is good is that republicans are laser focused on the border. they're not hearing them talk anymore about inflation. you're not hearing them complained about gas prices. so, i think that, you know, you can look to them as they are saying that the border is really all that they have left to run on. i think that that bodes well for democrats on the economy. >> all right, nbc news senior business correspondent, christine romans, it's great to have you on. thank you so much for being on this morning. adrienne elrod, john, best thank you as well for being on this morning. >> we have lots more to get to

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to new york city police officers were beaten five migrants who are -- security video shows a dozen suspects punching and kicking two officers outside of a migrant shelter on 42nd street in times square. officers say they rested for suspects at the scene into

fifth into custody two days later. seven suspects, they say, remain at large. those who are arrested were released without bail. our producer reach out to the manhattan district attorney's office to give us this statement, quote, violence against police officers is never except-able. it's paramount that we conclusively identify each defendant and specify each participants role in the incident. every defendant charged so far is facing felony charges that carry penalty of up to seven years. this is an active, ongoing investigation. joining us now to discuss this, former new york city police commissioner, now executive chairman of -- bill bratton. also with us on set, msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos. good morning to both. good to see. commissioner brandon, let's start with you and just your thoughts of what happened here. do you find it appropriate that these men, the suspects, released without bail? >> not at all. it's reflective of the very lot

justice [inaudible] put into effect several years ago. the idea that very few people are held to build in a large city. it's a prime example of failure of that law. the idea that these individuals assaulted these police officers. look at the viciousness of that assault. kicking them in the face. ten of them attacking two police officers. now, it's not acceptable. it's reprehensible as the chief of patrol described it in its comments yesterday. >> danny, you know, the bill reform that went in 2019 was seeing as very blacks that the judges have no discretion, effectively, to decide if the person was a threat. examples have been given on people being arrested for subway crimes, literally hundreds of times, the same people. it changed a little bit with the new budget last year. judges were given some discretion. where does it stand right now? particularly as you apply it to this case? >> bill reform has changed dramatically. that's why when you ask commissioner bratton, he sermon

era where this type of thing wouldn't have happened. because of the lot now, judges almost always must give either release on non recognizance or if it is a felony crime, within a list of billable offenses, the judge can set bail. even, then he has to take into consideration the suspect, the defendants ability to pay that failed. in case of asylum seekers who maybe staying at a shelter, their ability to pay bail financially, you can guess, it's going to be pretty low. a lot of this also depends on what the d.a.'s office is asking for. if it is available, the d.a.'s office can ask for bail. that is a major question. to what degree did they push for bail? really, when you think about it, setting almost any dollar mount for these defendants likely would have resulted in them being held in custody because they probably don't have a lot of resources to pay bail in the first place.

>> so, they would be in custody and we would actually know who beat the heck out of the cops. breath? >> you put it best. this is stealing toothpaste for the cbs, this is kicking the heck out of cops. i have a feeling that this isn't what bill reformers were expecting. this is so excessive. >> no. i certainly was wondering, for bail reform, this is not what we're talking about. this is, as i said, deformed. where argued releasing them to? you're talking about assaulting police. by the way, we fought to get more minorities in the police department. that's one of the things that commissioner brendan and i did agree on. now, you're going to give a real, in this case, it's against, it justifiable attack on bail reform because you let some guys kick a placement in the face and walk. that's not what bail reform was about. it's not what it should be

about. these people assaulted a police officer, clearly in times square and clearly we do not know where they have been released to. we cannot argue about how we deal with crime and protect civil liberties. we cannot argue that that's anything short of a criminal act. >> they're just -- you have politicians -- knock eric adams. eric adam seems to be fighting a lot of politicians for tougher laws. you have a lot of new york politicians who are clueless. >> well, inner city, the city council just voted overwhelmingly to override eric adams veto of a law that's going to make a police officers bureaucrats. they're going to have to put down, every time they stop and talk to a person, they're going to follow report. a piece of papal or report, is going to return to normalcy mountain time. commissioner bratton, you've been in the business of policing america in several different cities, including new

york city, 50 years. so, what happens to the average police officers morale, his attitude on the daily job, where so much is expected of police officers today and police officers know that everything and anything they do, someone is going to recorded on a cell phone camera when they get out of their cruiser? what happens to their sense of morale and obligation when they see people, like these eight or ten people, young man, who beat the heck out of two new york city police have ulcers in times square, and they skate. no penalty. just go home. you know? out of jail. no problem. now, something is going to happen to them eventually. what happens to the average stock in a car? >> well, as you say that business, associated with new york city where crime is, morality is as low as it's ever been in new york. >> we will be right back with more morning joe: weekend. back more morning joe: weekend. el. nothing beats it.

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welcome back to morning joe: weekend. let's jump back in with another one of this week's conversations we thought you should not mess. >> bobby, thank you so much for being here. what is so wonderful about this -- we talked about to troops being able to be held at the same time. you talked about black poetry as a way to resist and away to uplift. we are still here. you say the introduction, to best folks, i'm telling, you birthing is, hard dying is mean. get yourself a little loving in between. >> i feel like that's what we need right now. earlier, talking about connection, we want to be able to connect with ourselves, with each other, as a community, to come together in community. what better way to do that

vented poetry that inspires, uplifts, ultimately, makes us feel good and makes us feel grounded, like i felt on that brooklyn bridge when you all started singing, we are fired up, we can't take no more. words are powerful. >> what was your inspiration to bring all of this together? >> when the world is not so beautiful, y'all, when there is chaos, when there is uncertainty, when there is war, when there's ban books, when there's all these things that are making us feel uncomfortable, at best, and just east feelings of tragedy, that worse, we need to soil, we need a bond. in the book of jeremiah, attacks about the gilead, the talks about offering healing, that saves us. i posit that poetry, in its rhythm, it's concise, need figured of language, in its beauty, can do. that >> i want to hear you do. one >> in the illiad. >> there is.

>> let me ask you this -- it's very important what you said. black poets are not just for blacks. talk about how this can bring the country together, across racial and gender lines. this is not a book for blacks, about poetry, it's for everybody coming from a black experience. >> look, this book is not the caged bird. this is the bird being freed. this book is not about us being filled by the storm. this is us being the rainbow. when we all, joe, laughed, hope, dream, smile, have crashes, dance, live, love. everybody does that. poetry can help us be able to reimagine origin what our humanity as. ultimately, help us all becoming better human beings. >> khadija favorites, abe, turn to page 17 of this book. i stumbled upon this. i think it's an epic poem. black boys, by tony medina. could you read just a couple of

paragraphs from that? >> this is, it mike. this is about what i call, matter-of-fact black. when black boy scrape their needs, they bleed. black boys cry and scream, they tackle lifelike eric, gliding on when, basking in a breeze. black boy sit beneath trees, inhale fresh cut grass and dream. black boys play with building blocks. fascinated by, clock's cradle boys under the. earns black boys love basketball and books. joe? we have to embrace the full humanity, so we can begin to under -- appreciate each other beyond color. lines >> this year, experience. that's why, rev, what you are saying, this is not a book for blacks. this is a book for all of us because through this poetry, yeah, you see the shared experience. do you have a favorite? >> yes, i. one >> my favorite poem --

>> the first one, already. >> my first one is your favorite? it's nikki geovanis. >> it's called the black ip. the favorite [inaudible] number one. it's a little long. >> read the paper. part >> i'm happy to read my favorite part. i've got something better. if you don't mind? here i am, taking over. >> it's yours. >> it's honor to be on the show. i watch this every morning. >> it's an honor to have you here. >> to echo the pony read, to show that we are writing in the tradition, these are poster poets, emerging poets. we have them all. this is a poem that's in the tradition by one of my peers name perdomo, it's called, that's my heart right there. it's on page 53, if you want to turn to your text. i would imagine dislike bible studies. >> that's my, heart rate. there >> you can tell he has some church background.

>> i'm imagine this is the type of poem joe might have read to you. >> let's see this. >> we used to say, that's my heart right there. as if to say, don't mess with her right there. don't even play, that's a part of me, right there. in other words, okay, okay, that's the start of me right there. as if come that day, that's the end of me right there. as if push comes to shove, i would fend for her right there. as if come what may, i would die for her right there. yeah. i feel -- >> that's beautiful. >> everyone can relate to, that right? >> absolutely beautiful. >> this is amazing. this is the honey, all right? van theology -- analogy of contemporary black poets, editor and new york times bestselling author, thank you so much. >> come back. we need no poetry. >> really uplifted. >> thank you for your inspiration. >> that does it for us this morning. >> did you have the tracks, or

the tailored, tailored series? >> you know, it's all evolving. evolution. >> exactly. >> all right. >> thank you all very much. don't go away, we have a second hour of morning joe: weekend three you, right after the break. joe: weekend three you, right after the break. attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. talk to your doctor about nurtec today.

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>> welcome back to the second hour of morning joe on this sunday morning. here are the big conversations we had throughout the week. >> why would we do anything right now to help with that 33%? >> do you believe if joe biden's approval rating was at 53%, we would even be talking about the border? we wouldn't be talking about the southern border. but he has to do something, because he is hemorrhaging. he is pleading. so what he's gonna try to do is try to come up with some border security plan, bipartisan through the senate, that is nothing but hogwash. >> maybe they think that securing the border would help biden politically. which of course it would. but i want to secure the border, that's what i told my voters i would do. so there are some who believe the. and they are making it seem like the rest of us are against the bill. and that's just not true, because we haven't even seen the deal. everybody needs to just take a step back and let the text come out. >> this wasn't biden's bill,

that -- should know. biden didn't write this. it was one of the most conservative republicans in the senate. the oklahoma senator. james lankford. >> yeah, james lankford. i don't think they're unintentionally smearing james lankford. this is his moment with chris murray, they got together, the text isn't available, they don't know what's in it. and usually, back in your day in congress, joe, the stuff they say allowed, which is we can introduce legislation that would help the american people and solve the crisis at the border, or at least make it better, because we don't want this guy to win, was usually subtext. maybe whispered in rooms. but you don't just come out and announced that's why you're not supporting. >> it would be whispered in rooms but people would be going what are we gonna do? help bill clinton? they didn't know why. bill would go on the floor and vote for it, because it was good for america.

and, yeah maybe it helped bill clinton, it also helped america. crazy things happen, i mean, again, i've said it before. you have republicans that he did clinton, clinton who hated us, but everybody said, okay, here. here's our good bill. veto it. here's this. balance the budget for years in a row, and welfare reform that worked really well, balance the budget for years in a row for the first time in 100 years. the economy grew, a lot of great things happened, and guess what? beau clinton got credit for, it republicans in the house got credit for it. and america was better for it. >> you're talking about literally a different era. even though is maybe five years, go six years, ago ten years ago, a completely different era. i mean, look at people like trae kneels and others, those in the republican house especially. you wonder, what do they tell their voters when they run for office? i want to help you, i'm looking

towards the future, i want to see what i can do to make your life easier. or, do they articulate what they are doing now? we're going to go to washington and obstruct anything that might improve this nation. to improve your lives, to improve the border. whatever it is. why? because the other guy might win. by the way, dan krimm sean, that's the guy who, when he goes home, he can say hey, i don't care if it helps biden. i promise you i was gonna do this, i'm going to do it, and it's the right thing to do. that's what gets people at the reagan lincoln dinner standing on their feet, going heck yeah. he's fighting for us. that's stupidity. the ongoing stupidity of the house republicans, on every front. and you add your name to the list. they are literally willing to let putin take over ukraine. they just don't care. they've dug in, they've

decided. they're not going to support ukraine, they're not going to support a safer border. >> it's bad for donald trump, and they are against. it it's their guiding principle, that's just true. >> how crazy, what is good for america, is bad for donald trump. think about this. republicans have come to the conclusion, and donald trump has come to the conclusion and said i want the stock market crash, i want there to be a great depression, i want joe biden to be herbert hoover, i want the border to remain open, i want fentanyl to be flooding across the border for the next eight months so i can run against it, i want illegal immigrants flooding in, in continuing to flood in over the next eight months so i can run against, it republicans now have put themselves in the position where what's good for america is bad for donald trump, and that's all you need to know about that campaign and this republican party. >> every american is affected

by a border out of control, the way it is right now. and senator james langford tried to put forward a serious policy proposal. we just played on repeat the new york city cops getting beaten by men who should not have been in the country. and republicans saying, i'm okay with that, more cops can get beaten, i would rather not give joe biden a victory. >> that's what house republicans are right now. >> susan's right about this, her latest piece for the new yorker is titled the senate's false hope of a grand bargain meets its trumpy demise. susan, it sounds like you've written off the legislation. i think james lankford and chris murphy and -- would say there's still a little bit of life left here, maybe not in the house. but in the senate. what is the level of frustration from that senate group that has worked in good faith and in a bipartisan way, and very seriously for a long time to craft this bill, when they hear every republican in

the house -- most of them saying this is dead on arrival? >> well, that's right. listening to donald trump and especially the speaker of the house, acting as trump's proxy this week, coming out, giving his first speech on the floor. about this issue, calling it essentially madness, a bill that hasn't even been released yet. i do think you are seeing sort of the last gasp of the republican establishment in the senate, kind of throw up its hands and say i don't know what we can do to move forward. langford is as conservative as they come, he and mitch mcconnell seemed to really have thought that there was a chance here to come up with a deal, and that joe biden might be willing to take a deal, by the, way a border deal, that no other moment would a democratic president consider except for in this political context. and so what i'm hearing from

senators is this is a moment, and somehow donald trump wants us to squander this political moment in the name of hitching our entire party to his political fortunes. and by the, way the ukraine thing, this is as significant as it comes. we have taken the single most toxic issue in american politics, the border, which is to find bipartisan solutions for years, and now hitched the fight of ukraine and its existential fight with russia, is now held hostage to the toxic american politics of the border. so it seems like kind of a political tragedy all around. >> susan, you recall, of course, that it was the house republicans who wanted to tie the two together. who wanted to make it's about the border, and that can't be undone now, and it looks like ukraine aid might also be in peril. is there anything, do you think, that will move speaker johnson? because in the end, he's the

big obstacle. he won't bring it to the floor, theoretically there could be a discharge petition, something like that. is there anything that could move him, do you think, to at least bling it to the floor, where it probably could pass? >> that's right, jeanne. i think the sort of supporters of ukraine, they see the hopes at this point, that the republicans in the house are not going to go ahead with the border and ukraine, is there a chance to have a separate vote on ukraine? you saw mitch mcconnell suggesting earlier this week that that's exactly where this thing is going to head. now biden has asked for 60 billion dollars additionally for ukraine. there's a widespread sense that even if there is a separate vote, that they are unlikely to get the full 60 billion dollars. that you could see republicans extracting the price for that, a refusal to give the non-

military part of that assistance package to ukraine. but there's still hope, certainly, in national security quarters and people i talked to inside the administration that there could somehow be a way for ukraine aid. but i talked to one senator this week, jean, angus king from maine. he said if we don't do this for ukraine, it'll be the biggest foreign policy mistake that the united states has made in 50 years. i do think that -- really high on this one. >> we have lots more to get you this hour. morning joe: weekend continues after a short break. short brea. d e we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. ♪ ♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren next. next. stop. we got it?

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>> the u.s. economy added 355,000 jobs last month. almost double the expectation. the expectation from experts was 180,000, up to 3:53. and by the, way the december number was revised up to 333,000, so the last couple of months have been incredibly

strong. 15 million, almost, jobs added since president biden took office. and well over prepare indemnity. so this isn't about the post pandemic recovery, this is about a growing economy, will pass the number of jobs we saw for the pandemic, even. >> chris, we are in february. the election is not until november. if we continue on this track, we've seen -- the numbers all keep going up. inflation coming down, most importantly, those university of michigan surveys on conflicts, on consumers shooting up right now. these are the sort of things, there's a separation in the polls between joe biden's approval ratings and what people are thinking about the economy. that goes away if this economy keeps growing. >> logically, your right. but i look at -- you've been talking before about the land evangelical support for donald trump. it doesn't make any sense. i was up in new hampshire, as

you, know for all the days of the primary fight. and i went out to a laconia vent, the last trump valley. and he made a point of covering the entire state, pennsylvania and 60. he made sure everybody gets a chance to come to a rally. and he actually said that, as part of his speech. i've never seen so many poor people in my life. all out there, i felt embarrassed -- i walked past them, they waited there for two hours to see him. >> to see donald trump? >> yes. explain that. if you're worried about unemployment and getting a job, you should be happy that people are getting jobs. the hundred 50,000 people. but it doesn't work that way. they resent the elite, the economic elite, the cultural elite especially. and trump benefits from that. >> we had a union guy in michigan earlier, we played a clip of a union guy in michigan saying that he supported donald trump because he thought he would fight for the working men. donald trump is the antithesis of it. you look at what he's done to unions, he's been at war with

unions, you look at what he's done, passing the biggest tax cuts ever for billionaires and multinational corporations. and there is that disconnect, it doesn't seem to make sense. but it does remind me, bobby kennedy also had that draw. talking about the bad. and working class people, black working class people, white working class people, hispanic, they loved bobby kennedy. bobby kennedy got -- and one of the things that haunted the kennedys for years that they could never reconcile, was how did bobby kennedy voters go to george wallace? but they did. a lot of them. they wanted an out. and it's the same thing with trump voters. it doesn't make sense that bobby kennedy voters would go to george wallace. it doesn't make sense that poor, struggling americans would go to a billionaire who gives billionaires and brags about it their biggest tax cuts

ever. >> just look at the money that elon musk is getting. the huge amounts of money and profits because -- i'm gonna make this goal, i reach this goal, give me the money, and he got the money. so i think there's a lot of resentment against the people with wealth. i think there's people out there that are looking at the establishment, whether it's entertainment tv or any kind of television, they think of the media that way, these are people who have got it made, and i don't have it made. and i'm not gonna vote for biden, i'm gonna vote for trump. it's a very interesting thing, but i think it's resentment. i think anger is the most important emotion of this election. young people not feeling they're getting spoken to, minority people not feeling there being spoken to, poor people, men, the gender gap now is so strong, it's something like 23 points, where women will not vote for trump, for a lot of good reasons. but the men are sticking with him. what's that about?

why are men so angry? men are angry. >> and jelani, again, trump in 2016 got a lot of people voting for him, because he was against the elites, against the establishment. i've got to say, growing up in the south, growing up in a culture where we did feel like the east coast elites always looked out, honest hollywood always made fun of us, politics always mocked us. you just go down the list, resentment after resentment after resentment. here we are, though, eight years later. donald trump has revealed himself time and time again. what i'm having a hard time figuring out is how can struggling americans, how can working class americans, still be drawn to a phony billionaire, who only cares about himself. and he says it basically every day. and whose policies did nothing

but hurt them, over his four years in office? >> of course, there's a huge chunk of this population that is simply starting with poor people, and disenfranchised young men, disenfranchised young white men. if you tell them your plate is not your fault. it's the elites fault. it's the mexicans fault. it's the bank's fault. that is a powerful message. you don't have to look in the mirror and blame yourself, you can blame somebody else. but i want to just give a news flash as we look at those 300,000 job numbers. if we look at gdp that's on fire compared to the rest of the world. if we look at jobs, if we look at unemployment, if we look at cooling inflation, if we look at the stock market. joe biden is doing a great job with this economy. can we just give a news flash out there? particular to all my friends who are, joe biden, joe biden. he's done a great job with israel, a great job of nato, and a great job with ukraine. what joe biden has done is a spectacular job with this economy. i want people to kind of finally get that in their

heads, and yes, he is fighting against it disenfranchised poor and the angry young men, but at a macro level, joe biden has been tremendously successful. >> you know who else is saying, that really? larry kudlow. our friend larry has said a couple of times now, i was wrong. this economy is great, we've heard it from all corners. when you have economists talking about the recession that's coming, talking about all the problems we are going to face, and you have an economy that's been guided this way, it's not all joe biden. you can look at the leadership of joe biden, you can look at the leadership of the fed chairman. powell, and you can look and see, we are talking about bill clinton on the break.

bill clinton had said that if there's a turtle on top of a fence post, it didn't just get there by accident. and you don't have an economy continuing to grow like this just because. we are so outpacing china right now, we are so outpacing our competitors with our economy, it's not even a close call. >> ahead, we'll talk to former assistant new york attorney general kristen snell, who prosecuted trump years ago and one. we will get his take on how he thinks the form president will fare in all of the legal battles he's facing. we will be right back. right b.

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skyline to some of the great city's most prestigious and elegant buildings. now, donald trump brings his years of experience to the worlds of business education, with the launch of trump university. >> oh my god. before, there was the hush money payments. >> a lot of people paid a lot of money for that. >> and then the woman that was sexually assaulted, and the attempting to overthrow american democracy, all of this. donald trump found himself in legal trouble over a fraudulent business school he created. it wasn't real. >> wait, we're not giving any reactions. >> the valedictorian of the class of 2008. you have to pay a little extra to be the valedictorian. >> once you told people, i'm a graduate of trump you, those doors open wide. >> yeah, they do. all right, in november of 2016, just days after being elected

president, trump agreed to pay $25 million to the thousands of people he tricked into paying for classes at trump you, over the course of a five-year period. jeez. joining me now, the prosecutor in that case, former assistant new york attorney general tristan smell. he is the author of a new book, entitled taking down trump, 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by someone who did it successfully. okay. >> thanks for being with us. what's the most important of the 12 rules? what's the first thing you just gotta know going in? >> the first thing is you've got to actually have the right leadership in place. if you don't bring the case at all, if the prosecutor doesn't have the courage to bring the case, let's say that there's a credible accusation. if you don't actually start digging and greenlight the case, it's not gonna go anywhere. >> and when you do greenlight the case, you also have to have total buy-in. >> total buy, and all the way through the ranks. it's gonna have the top

official, whether that person's elected or appointed, and then all the way through down to the line prosecutors. and then you need to get out of the way and let those line prosecutors do the work. >> what's the next step? >> then, really, the middle part of the book talks about steps around investigation. and a lot of them is you have to fight back when trump stumbles, you you've got to get creative about getting documents and testimony from other parties, like his vendors. he doesn't pay those people out of the time, so some of those people can be your allies and they can break open the case. >> the list, there's a lot in there. i'm looking at number 11 right now, trump lashes out, ignore. it that such a big part of taking on donald trump, as we've seen from all these prosecutors and the judges, as we've seen from the defendants in e. jean carroll. he is going to attack, you go after your credibility. how do you deal with it? >> he attacked me, he didn't attack me by name, but he is lawyers accuse me of fabricating the witness testimony. we have dozens of affidavits from these brave folks who are willing to step forward and talk about what had happened.

and he accused me of making it all up. and look, i had it easy. these folks have it hard. the folks that have been doing this, they've been doing it wonderfully. you have to have a stoic attitude and just keep pushing. i think we saw it especially from e. jean carroll. the fact that she kept pushing on this, and for years. that's the way to do, it you can't let him beat you. >> is it a part of the reason a lot of people that are prosecuting him or doing business with him back up because they don't want to take the batter and intimidation to the reputation, that will be marred in some way. that you have to have a stiff back in order to stand up to him, because when you say that he prosecuted, you manage someone at the top of the office, there were still -- isn't it that character that

than is required to go up against trump in any form? >> the intimidated factor, and then the co-opting factor. the fact it was able to cozy up to certain prosecutors and get them to stand down. those are two of the biggest ways he was able to evade justice for 40 years, really, from 1973, when he first got sued for housing discrimination, all the way to 2013 when he brought the trump university case. he pretty much didn't have anything on him. and now you are starting to see that really turn the tide, and now we see more and more cases and more more private litigants managing private points on him. >> rule number eight is get trump under oath. is that kind of meaningless when you're dealing with a political liar? get him under oath? that's one thing, and he's represented by lawyers who often don't get paid. >> right. >> i mean, that's sort of -- the degree of difficulty there is pretty high. >> the kicker, though, is that if you do it right, and bobby kaplan is e. jean carroll's

lawyer, and did a great job of this. it's not just get a game under oath, it's then managing to get just the -- in. not everybody would've thought to say let's show him the access hollywood tape. she did that, but then some of the questions she asked. she asked him, are you a star? because he says if you're a star, they let you do. it are you a star? and that activated his narcissism. to all of a sudden he is like he's either going to let go of his ego, and say he's not a star, or he's going to say i am a star, and then that led him to those moments there that he said that he had the right as a high privilege mail. >> the deposition is incredible. i was transfixed watching the entire thing, it's really worth it. it reveals his true character, and also you to see how deft and brilliant the attorney's. >> yeah, they do a great job of. that >> just strings him along. >> i was looking at the notes, some of the memberships, if you

call, that in the trump university, they cost $35,000. people paid 35 grant. >> it was as much as tuition or more. it was an enormous amount of money. they up sold everybody to that, that's the key. and they actually made a lot of the money they're. people lost their life savings, they lost their homes, they were crippled and credit card debt, it was horrible. and these were just super fans. these were the people who loved him at the most. these were people that loved him in the apprentice, that's why they were coming to trump university, that was 2000 something to 2010. it left in the most, and he knife them and took the money. >> you know, you're describing what's going on right now. people who love him the most are writing checks to his campaign, he's taking that money, and he is using that money for criminal defense and for civil defense, is using

that money for flying his jet around the country. going from one lawsuit to another. the people who can afford it the least are the people that are giving him the most money right now. >> it leads to my question that i think a lot of people have, but you, the most, have experience with trump upfront, up close. how many times do you think to yourself, after this trial, you sit there watching tv and say this guy became president of the united states. >> the whole thing was incredibly surreal. when you're doing the case, we would joke about what would happen if trump ever actually got into politics. we just thought it would be like 30 seconds. it would be a publicity stunt, and he'd be out. because a soon as that glare came on him, people would see him for what he was. and it's just been absolutely shocking, horrifying, i'm kind of numb to it now. you have to keep pushing. you just have to keep on trying to tell the truth about what it is. but it's amazing to me.

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>> welcome back, it's been ten years since venture capitalist aileen lee coined the now popular nickname for the very rare start-ups at the time, unicorns. the term refers to u.s.-based companies that are less than a decade old and valued at over a

billion dollars. when she made up that turn, just 39 companies qualified. today, according to a new analysis from lisa company, cowboy ventures, that number has grown to 532. hello, here to discuss, editor of forbes women, maggie mcgrath, and vice chair of the forbes and know your value 30 50 summit. -- she's an msnbc contributor. so maggie, you actually recently interviewed lee. she was an honoree, by the way, on our 50 over 50 list for investment last year. what is the reason that she says with the growth in unicorn start-ups? >> there are several factors that play, mika. chief of with our are the economic conditions. for a massive flow of capital towards our nations start-ups. we have low interest rates for a number of years there, which added that and other conditions. 580 billion dollars in the hands of investors going to these start-ups, and then of course with more funding comes higher valuations. we also have the growth of

industries, the digitization of our lives, the cloud, a.i.. that led to 19 new sectors represented among the unicorn set of 2023 2024. that means that she wasn't even tracking in 2013, with the original list. so that is really diversification of the start-up ecosystem. now what i would say is gender diversity did not quite keep up the same pace. in 2013, when she did this first analysis, there were 5% of the unicorns that had female founders, and zero female ceos. those numbers have gone up to 14% of unicorns have a female cofounder, 5% have a female ceo. the numbers gonna, but aileen and her team notes that there are more owners in michael, david, and andrew, then there are female ceos.

>> we need to jump-start that. one of the takeaways here for women entrepreneurs? >> i think the numbers speak for themselves, and i think they're pretty positive. it shows that there is room for growth, that there's been progress. we had sinema donny at our conference last year, who is the founder of fintech unicorn called stacks. showed how hard it was when she operated in that space. but now there's evidence that shows that investing in female founded companies could be more beneficial than investing in male founded companies, and in part because women have to be scrapped, or just like minorities have to be little scrap here during downturns, and might be a bit more creative. but when you look at the broader number, what did we learn last march? it's gonna take 300 years for there to be gender equity in the world. 40 years, not bad. for a lean to say, it's 2023, by 2060 through there will be gender parity in the states, i think that's very encouraging. >> -- know your value recent celebratory lunch in honoring

the woman who made our 50 over 50 lists. she was one of the first women to launch a d.c. forum in the country. she's invested in many successful companies, including dollar shave club, rent the runway, and bloom energy. she shared her best advice for women. >> hang in there. especially for women and vulnerable people, and folks who are generally others, it can be very hard and very discouraging. you're often the only woman or the only minority of some type in the room, and it's just harder. so i think finding allies, finding supporters, finding friends, whether they're at work or outside of work, and knowing that you're not alone in some way, is really important. >> i think that's half the battle. it's such good advice, we will be hearing a lot more of this type of advice from bold entrepreneurs and icons of female success at forbes and know your value upcoming 30 50 summit, which is four weeks away. so, a lot to look forward to at

the summit, for sure. >> there's a lot to look forward to. and speaking of entrepreneurs who've gotten a lot of funding, we will be joined by -- she appeared on the 2020 forbes 30 under 30 list for her company share tech. she's the founder and ceo, and if you're on tiktok you've probably seen the viral ads. these are allegedly indestructible tights, because she uses military grade fibers that are used in bulletproof vests, because she wants to illuminate disposable tights and pantyhose. she'll be sharing her insights with us, and she has almost $50 million in revenue last year, 160 million in funding, so a really savvy entrepreneur that will be on stage with us. >> i love -- this is such an interesting, dynamic group. from shania twain to ellen johnson, the former liberian president, to susie orman. we are going to run the gamut of incredible advice and wisdom. >> coming up, we will talk about some practical things

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-- during his speech, he won on and on about his cognitive test. i don't, know it doesn't seem that impressive to me. but i let you be the judge. check this. out >> the first question, you say you have a lion, a giraffe, a whale, and a shark. and they'll say which ones the lion, okay? a chair, a hat, about, edge a necklace, and a vote. and he said, what's going on? >> right after that, a video interrupted him that said i'm nikki haley, and i approve this message. >> you've known donald for a long time. roy -- not well. >> it's the stress. stress, money -- >> when you have a man that is on the brink of losing everything, he does not act

like 83 point $3 million, and he doesn't know what may come from the other case. >> that one could hurt. >> it could wipe him out. he's never had all the money he claimed, and even affirm that will take -- >> maybe ivanka will help. >> he's got that, and he is facing four criminal trials and 91 felony counts. he has reason to not be able to remember the difference between nikki haley and former speaker nancy pelosi. >> at or the difference between obama and joe biden. for the democrats that are still despairing, don't despair. start working. >> first of, all just briefly on this point, one of the things -- it's laughable to look at him. but one of the things that strongmen throughout history have had is a combination of the protection of strength and a sense of victimhood that

makes their followers feel like they want to rush to their defense. so his weirdness helps him, in certain ways. we have this post at the end yesterday, we are starting a new series called get busy for 2024. it's totally g rated, and it is suggesting that there's so much despair right now, so much tread, so -- much i know some people that are just like this is gonna be so dangerous and he might win, and so the actual action. people are waiting for criminal trials, waiting for things to play out. and so we are suggesting that people actually do stuff. and we're going to suggest a specific thing, in this get busy series. every week, what you can do. and this week, we are starting with my favorite thing called deep canvassing. which is a form of deep political engagement were instead of doing one minute at the door when you knock on doors, which is most door knocking, you spend as much time as you can with not

mobilizing your supporters, with conflicted voters. with people who are all over the place. and you go deep on why are you so afraid of the border? what's behind that? you don't just say, do you have a place to vote? you actually engage, and its citizens engaging in nonviolent engagement. over the hardest issues, and it's been proven by political science, it's been remarkably effective. it's something you can go do, get trained in, and go do on the phone, in your neighborhood, and it's remarkable. >> what's so crazy is right now you talk to a lot of republicans, we were discussing this a couple of hours ago. you talk to a lot of republicans, they don't think joe biden's going to be the democratic nominee. you talk to a lot of democrats, they just still can't believe that donald trump will ever be the nominee. so much of what we are seeing now with people in these polls, they're thinking somebody else will run. they're not. these are the two people were going to have. >> i think this is why last week, after trump won new

hampshire, that the statement from biden was he's going to be the nominee. because this is the biggest obstacle to people being for biden, is people not believing that donald trump is going to be the nominee. -- once they get over that obstacle, they are able -- they find in focus groups, people are able to find the way. but that's the big thing. >> up next, we will hear from the stars of a new season of national geographics series genius, mlk acts. which chronicles the life of martin luther king junior, and malcolm x. and the influence of their lives.

>> we're in this together. how can i help you? >> we will need people. to fight against oppression, by any means necessary. >> what you're doing is just -- i have a question. >> brothers and sisters, are you ready? [applause] >> i believe you're going to do great things. >> we must be a little --

>> we can change the course of history. >> that was just part of the new trailer for the new season of the national geographic series entitled genius, mlk acts. the show chronicles the public and personal lives of the reverend dr. martin luther king junior, and malcolm acts, with a particular focus on the legacies of their wives. caretta scott king, and dr. betty shabazz. and joining us now, two of the shows costars, way reach a otia, who plays caretta scott king, and jaime lawson, who plays -- thank you so much for coming on. i love this angle, looking at really the personal lives of these two couples, of these four individuals. i'll start with you, what did you learn about caretta scott king, about the relationship

that you brought to light in this? >> i learned so much. i'm british, so we don't actually have that much information, and it's not taught, about martin luther king, or malcolm x. and so when i got this job, it was a wonderful opportunity to completely educate myself, and be part of the process of educating a new generation and the next generation about caretta scott king and martin. i think especially the women have been sidelined a lot in the civil rights movement, and so i think that was definitely a highlight for me, to be part of highlighting the women and their contributions to the movement. >> absolutely. >> that amazes me about you, i'm so excited, is i knew both women. i was too young to know malcolm, i was about eight when he was killed. i only saw dr. king twice, i was 12 when he got killed. i got to know both of their widows. mrs. king was responsible for me learning how to be a little

bit more selfless. >> pragmatic. we got him out of the track suit. >> i worked closely with their son, he got us together. and buddy is my two daughters godmother. so i knew both of them. talk about how both of them weren't just housewives, but they were the ones that really drove their husbands. for the scott king was the co- pilot of the civil rights movement, and betty shabazz kept malcolm strong. and i used to hear them over and over again talk about this, when they would talk to me in pirate. talk about that. >> i love the fact that you said they weren't just housewives, because you don't have a malcolm x and a dr. martin luther king without women, wives, who were of black minds, who were also dreamers. that were also activists. these were women who challenged their ideals, and really parceled through a lot of the sermons and messages that they

were going to speak about. and they were gravitated to these women before that. they had a mind of their own, that they had dreams and aspirations of their own. i think history has done this weird thing of making it seem as though women now have just started to have agency. as if that wasn't a thing ever before. and so one of the things that i love that the show is doing is highlighting the fact that caretta and betty were women of agency, that really fought side by side with their husbands for the movement, and for their community. >> that does it for us on this sunday edition of morning joe. thanks so much for watching, we will be back right here tomorrow morning at 6 am. msnbc's the weekend starts right now.