eds. ends monday. shop for a limited time and sleep next level. only at sleep number. good evening and welcome to ayman tonight. is the delay in trump's election interference trial the life raft that he and his base believe it is? colorado keeps going, asking the supreme court to keep trump off its ballot in november. secretary of state janet griswold is leading that charge. she is live with us tonight. plus, breaking news from capitol hill. the senate laying out its plan to send aid to israel and ukraine, as well as boost funding for our southern border, as the house speaker plans to vote this week on a stand-alone bill for israel. that the white house calls a sideshow. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> major news in donald trump's federal election interference trial. on sunday -- friday, judge tanya chutkan ordered an order delaying the former presidents case, calling off the march 4th trial date. the case has been on pause for weeks as the d.c. circuit court weighs whether the former president is immune from prosecution. and now, the decision from the three judge panel could come at any moment. back in january, the judge expressed deep skepticism over trump's argument blanket immunity. this isn't the only major decision that type trump's anxiously awaiting in the coming days. right now, the ex president is staying -- staring down a devastating verdict in his new york civil business fraud trial. judge arthur and go and already ruled trump engaged in fraud. his final decision now concerns how much money the former president and his codefendants oh, as well as whether trump can still do business in new

york state. the new york attorney general, letitia james, is seeking a whopping $370 million from trump and the other defendants. that means a decision in the state's favorite could not only deal a blow to trump's businessman persona, but also potentially leave him in financial ruin. meanwhile, the supreme court is preparing to hear oral arguments in another hugely consequential case involving the ex president. on thursday, a court will consider an appeal the colorado supreme court's decision to bar trump from the state's 2024 presidential primary ballot. after the justices found he violated the insurrection clause of the 14th amendment, following his actions on january 6th. later in the show, we will speak to colorado secretary of state janet griswold about those upcoming arguments and how her state plans to make its case before the nation's highest court. look, as states for trump could not be higher, we say that all the time, he has spent years racking up these legal woes and

now it is time to face the music on all fronts all at once. down the line for mr. trump's reputation for sure, his bank account definitely. and even his ability to run for president. kicking us off this hour, david henderson, a civil rights attorney and former prosecutor. and suzanne craig, an investigative reporter for the new york times and msnbc contributor. great to have both of you with us. david, talk to us about this order from judge tanya chutkan to delay trump's federal election interference trial. there is concern out there that we have not heard from the -- ex presidents immunity claim yet, give us your thoughts on how we should -- worried we should be at this point? >> we should be worried about what the d.c. court of appeals is likely to say. you can almost cue the music from queen under pressure. everyone feels it when it comes to former president trump. he's a hot potato, no one wants to get burned. they are going to be very cautious before they hand down rulings related to him. with regard to the trial

setting, keep in mind i've tried somewhere between 70 and 80 jury trials to a verdict. i've never had one go to trial on the first setting. i don't know if anybody who's ever had a case go to -- that setting was always likely to get moved. the question, is how far back is it going to be moved? because to listen to oral arguments in front of the d.c. circuit, they are likely to rule against former president trump. he's going to appeal, that will buy more time. we might be looking at an extension of delays with regard to not going to trial. >> david, let's move on to that upcoming order from -- civil fraud case. some legal experts, including former mueller investigation prosecutor and friend of this network, andrew weissmann, believes the judges delay in issuing his judgment could have to do with this new detail emerging regarding a plea deal with x trump organization financial officer allen weisselberg. give us your thoughts on that. do you share that suspicion? how damaging would his cooperation before trump?

allen weisselberg's cooperation before trump? >> i think that is a smart opinion. i do share, it but not for the reason that you may think. it is always easy to forget how much pressure everyone is under when it comes to former president trump. let's link this to some of the other headlines we've seen recently. the e. jean carroll verdict, the 83 point $3 million she received, just because of what she said to go through by being harassed by former president trump. but someone like a judge is going to realize that, you know, what i'm also going to be subjected to that much pressure when i make this ruling. because, and you covered it in the intro, any court case asks to basic questions. number one, did it happen? number two, if so, what is it going to cost? here, it has already been determined, yes, the fraud happened. no question, is former president trump going to get hit? in the only question is how hard. if judge engoron can give himself some cover, he is going to. if weisselberg enters a plea, it requires him to say, yes, i lied in court in a civil fraud trial, he will let that hit the press first before he comes back

with whatever number he's going to penalize former president trump with. >> this ruling from judge engoron will come on the heels of this whopping 83.3 million dollar decision in the defamation case trump has to pay out to e. jean carroll. according to a recent piece of yours, a new york times review of trump's financial records found these judgments could -- and force him to sell various assets. walk us through the financial impact this could have on the ex president, who by his own accounts, has about $400 million worth of liquid cash, i believe. >> right. he gave that number need up a zeeshan in april 2023. i think it is important to start with the idea of how much cash somebody has is a position that is not tried on any given day. he could've said in april, 20 -- maybe it is true. maybe is not. let's say he did have that. it the next day, he could've

made 100 million dollar payment to cover a shortfall or to do anything with. you have to kind of -- it is really at the starting, point it is hard to understand what his cash flow position is on any given day. but we have some insight into what his cash flow position has been at various times. and we know in recent years, he has not only put hundreds of millions of dollars into some of the properties that he's bought. separately, in 2015, just after he announced his first candidacy for the white house, he lost a lot of licensing deals. so he has had -- that was like tens of millions of dollars coming in. we know that because at the times, we reviewed decades now of his taxes. he had a casper's-ish, and it looked like 200 some million heading the 2014 and 15. as he entered the white house, he had a meeting with allen weisselberg.

that was former cfo, the fellow we were just talking about. it looked like he only had 50 or $60 million in available cash. but since, then he sold him assets and probably it is now greater than that. but it is really you look at the verdict or the amount he's going to have to pay for the e. jean carroll decision, that is 83 million. my estimate would be he can probably cover that. but the 370 million that he may be looking at, it may not come in at, that that's going to be a tough nut for him to head. i think we are looking at asset sales. that is a difficult proposition for him. he doesn't own a lot of class a property. so, right away, you are looking at a fire sale situation, where the assets -- in the first place. >> david, let me pick up on that. when could he take a page out of rudy giuliani's -- who declared bankruptcy in december, after he was ordered to pay 100 $50 million for defamation. if trump continues to see these

bills stack up, is there a risk the former president might take a page out of giuliani's book and keep somebody like e. jean carroll, even the new york state, from receiving what they are due by declaring bankruptcy? >> i think that risk has been present for quite some time now, a man. it is hard for him to run. you have to remember, these aren't simply court cases. these are part of his attempt to run for president on the -- he's a savvy business person. it's really hard to maintain that claim when you maintain bankruptcy, right? what you have to keep in mind is he doesn't simply have these verdicts he's facing. he also has to pay his lawyers, which is a huge part of whether you can continue at this pace. the new york times estimates that he spent $50 million on lawyers last year. every time you appeal, you have to have a new lawyer. every time you go to trial, and the bill goes up. you know what, he hasn't even gone to trial yet on any of his cases that are likely to stay in trial for the longest period of time. those numbers are really going to hit. i think that, definitely, there is a risk of.

that >> speaking of the hits trump could take, suzanne, you know his ego well. you've seen the brand he's built as a successful businessman around his ego. as someone who has followed trump four years, how do you think these legal losses stack up in that sense, in the damage it would do to him reputationally, and as someone who may declare bankruptcy running for president as a successful businessman, with this, yet again, a bankruptcy charge or bankruptcy filing? >> right. first of, all to step back on a few things. the legal fees, right now, are largely being paid by his pack. he is not having to pick up the tab on a corporate level yet. one of the reasons people sort of speculate he's running for president is to -- >> keep raising funds, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. keep raising the funds on it. that is a huge incentive for him. the other thing is i don't see right, now from where i, said that he's looking at

bankruptcy. these are big buying is coming. and he can't fund-raise for them. i am not sure how far that's going to go. but he's got valuable assets he can sell. i think that's where we are first going to see it go before we see a bankruptcy. but this case is so important to, him this civil case in new york, where we are waiting for the decision from the judge any day or any week now, should be soon. because it goes to his assets. it's how he defines himself. he has been lying about his net worth since he was in his twenties. he very much -- how he is perceived and how wealthy he is perceived is hugely important to him. >> david, finally, got to get your thoughts on this. the supreme court set to hear arguments over trump's ballot eligibility. what are you looking for in those arguments, and how soon could we get a ruling there? >> same, in the judges make it pretty clear these days which way they are leading based on the questions they asked during

oral arguments. what you can look at with this court, overall, and they are not looking to take any more heat than they have to. i don't think they want to be responsible for weighing in on whether he's going to appear on the ballot. even though there is some very valid arguments being made. in that respect, i don't think this discussion and this argument is solely about whether or not former president trump remains on the ballot in some of these states. so much as a question that raises for the rest of us in terms of what we are going to tolerate in terms of public behavior from people who can only run for office. >> all that as we await the appeals court in d.c. about trump's other important precedent -- i would say pressing legal matters, but all of these are pressing in some ways. david henderson, suzanne, craig greatly appreciate your time. ahead, that breaking news from capitol hill. the senate releasing details of its bill to fund aid to israel, ukraine, and the southern border and security there. after this, break the delegates to avoid war with iran and the military action the white house is not ruling out. house is not ruling out.

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we need to make it absolutely clear to iran that nothing is off the table. we maintain peace through strength. that was the reagan doctrine. that's what president trump continued, and that's what we have to continue right now. we should not be appeasing iran . the biden administration has been doing it for the last three years. we are projecting weakness on the world stage. >> that was how speaker mike johnson today on meet the press. he is part of a growing chorus of republicans who are accusing the white house of responding too little, too late, and two week to iran. on friday, the first round of u.s. retaliatory strikes hit 85 targets across seven facilities in both iraq and syria. the targets were facilities used by groups associated with iran, which the pentagon claims carried out a drone strike last weekend in jordan that killed three american troops.

according to the -- yesterday's u.s.-led strikes on the houthi rebels in yemen, in retaliation for carrying out drone attacks on ships in the red sea in recent weeks was also a very significant development. and we are nearly four months into israel's bombardment of gaza following the october 7th terrorist attacks on israel. with me now, retired general -- former nato supreme allied commander of europe, and clint watts, msnbc national security analyst. great to have both of you with us. general, i will start with you. i want to get your thoughts on speaker mike johnson's comments , and some of those other republicans saying that the only way to deal with iran or respond to what happened against those three u.s. servicemen is to forcefully go after iran directly, which implicit in their statement, a direct attack on iraq, on iran, excuse me, not to appease it. what do you make of their takes here, and what are they saying

in their analysis of these tensions with iran in the middle east right now? >> first of, all thanks for having me on. i think it is instructive what our secretary has said about these strikes. and he said that these strikes are to diminish the capabilities and the capacities of these groups that iran supports, as they attack many western targets, to include american targets. certainly, what we have done so far has accomplished that. but i think there are legitimate questions to be asked about, is this going to change the calculus for iran? all the roads start in iran, and all roads lead back to iran. and changing the dynamic of these attacks will rely on iran's calculus being changed. there are some legitimate questions.

to quickly finish up to the latter part of your question, there are targets that could be hit, which would meet the criteria that we talk about all the time, as these conflicts go, proportionality. are they proportionate? for instance, iran has been sailing these shifts that our intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance access in the red sea. and their intelligence has been helping iran to give the targeting to the groups that are attacking americans. so, yes, i believe there are some targets that iran has that meeting the proportionality clause, and would be absolutely legitimate targets to strike. >> could that, to follow up on, that could the possibility of a u.s. attack on an iranian flag naval vessel in the red sea or in the persian golf be perceived as a declaration of war that would then give the

iranians the -- for their own domestic calculations, a reason to attack american interests in the region? whether it be guitar, the united arab era merits, saudi arabia, anywhere else in the region? >> we have to be honest and say yes, it could. the question is, are we going to allow that to deter us? we did in ukraine. we've been deterred from taking actions that we feared might escalate the war. and it has taken a lot of options off the table that we might otherwise have considered. so, yes, and we have to acknowledge that that could be seen as the first step in a broader war. but the decision is, will we allow that to deter us? and i would go back to what i mentioned before. when you talk about the reasonableness and the proportionality of targets,

there are iranian assets that are directly involved with the targeting of americans. those, i think, would be appropriate. >> clint, we have national security adviser jake sullivan basically having a similar conversation to the one we are having right now. saying this morning that the u.s. will not rule out the possibility of strikes inside iran, and that the u.s. is going to, quote, take additional strikes and additional actions following friday's strikes. he was clear. he is not taking options off the table, he's not putting them on the table. give me your sense, if you will, about how you interpret americas options right now. >> reporter: just looking at the big picture and some things to think about, two days ago we saw these strikes here. this is mostly against those iranian linked -- linked militia, the resistance of iraq. that's what they were targeting there. separately, we are seeing lots of strikes right here near the

red sea. that's where the houthis are at. but this adds to other questions, when they go even further? another location that really would be a step up, these are to proxies the iranians back. but the irgc cooks force members that oftentimes are infiltrated a across this border, we see strikes closer to. they're separately, would we see some sort of attacks that are not in iran proper, but as general was noting, other assets like intelligence ships or intelligence personnel, or cooks force members, down here in the persian golf, and we go after those targets? just short of going inside actual iran proper so i think everyone is going to know we've seen two days of consecutive strikes, both against proxies that are highly active. will we see them taking more direct -- iranian connective tissue that takes these militia groups together. >> i want to ask you about something you know a lot better than i, do and that is the cyber capabilities that the united states. that is something that is on the table. we heard officials talk about it. they've been very reluctant to

outline what it might look like. what do you think, if the united states wanted to, it could use as part of its cyber arsenal or tools against iran, where it would do something to let the iranians go it came from america, but at the same time be disruptive enough to raise their calculation? >> same, in the tactical and operational level, a couple things to think about in these strikes. we saw it in syria and iraq and down here in yemen, what they might be doing is both penetration and reconnaissance, but also disruption and communications and commanding control. think about maybe destabilizing the missile system or knocking out -- so that the units can communicate together. that could be one thing. a more strategic level, what if they were to go after iranian targets that communicate out or do the communications in intelligence coordination with all the proxies? obviously, it is impossible for us to know what they would do in terms of that case. the most aggressive and probably at least likely would

be some sort of destructive attack against anything inside iran or other assets. those tend to get out of control. but i think at the tactical operational level, a lot of options on the table to try to break up the communications, break up the capabilities in terms of missile strikes that those iranian proxies might have. >> all right, clint want, general breedlove, thank you both for your insights. appreciated as always. colorado not letting donald trump off the hook. fighting to keep him off the 2024 ballot over his actions and involvement in the january 6th insurrection. colorado secretary of state janet griswold is leading that fight. she joins us live next. but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

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♪ ♪ ♪ this week, the supreme court will hear arguments on whether an ex president who was indicted for inciting an insurrection can appear on november's ballot in colorado. the high court will hear that case on the same day trump

hopes for a resounding victory in nevada's gop caucus is. the colorado supreme court made history by becoming the first state to disqualify trump from his ballot, using the 14th amendment insurrection clause. and you need to pay tension to what happens here, because the supreme court's ruling will reverberate well beyond the rockies, with dozens of other states following colorado's lead and watching what happens there very closely. lastly, colorado secretary of state, jena griswold, filed a brief urging the supreme court to keep trump off the ballot. and to issue its ruling as soon as possible. secretary griswold is here now. secretary griswold, it is great to see you. thank you for coming back on the show. let's talk about how you expect thursday's hearing to go. the state solicitor general will be representing you, as i understand, we will only have ten minutes to make your cases to the justices. what is your plan with the limited time you have and what is the central argument your team will make? >> thanks for having me on.

next week, it definitely, will be a historical week for our democracy, with such a big supreme court case. we are focused with one message to the supreme court. a state can keep off their ballots and out breaking insurrectionist like donald trump. we expect trump to continue to say he is above the law, above the constitution. that he has no ability to be held liable for his acts. frankly, i think that is not correct. i think the president should not be above the law. that is an affront to what this country stands for. i hope the justices listen very closely to the arguments. because typically we do not have insurrectionist presidents run for office again. and that is exactly what section three of the 14th amendment, the warding is trying to prevent. we will see how oral arguments go on thursday. >> let me ask you about that.

you are saying a person who is an oath breaking insurrectionist, are you saying that the supreme court will focus on whether or not he is an insurrectionist? the argument that some are making is, if you do not have a court of law determined that he was in fact an insurrectionist, in the court of public opinion, you and i certainly agree that donald trump certainly played a, role fomented what happened on january 6th. it wouldn't have happened without him, that's for sure. if the legal definition of an insurrection is not met, do you think the supreme court could toss out the case based on that alone? >> well, they shouldn't. because two courts have looked at that question. a district court in colorado and the colorado supreme court. both courts determined that donald trump did engage in insurrection. it is clear as day what he did. he incited that violent mob, he broke the law, he led the january 6th attack. i do think if the supreme court looks at the facts, it will be very evident.

and one of my big concerns, not only in this case but through all of donald trump's cases, is he tries to escape liability. his lawyers have the audacity to argue to a judge it in a different case that if the president would assassinate a political opponent, they couldn't be held liable. i think this is a big case about how the presidency functions. for me, a president should not be above the law or the constitution, especially not someone like donald trump. section three of the 14th amendment is clearly in the constitution to protect our country from internal danger. internal danger of insurrectionists seizing power through elections. that is the situation. >> i wanted to ask you if you believe he will get a fair shake at the supreme court given its composition and maybe idealistically we want to think that this court is not political, we certainly hope our supreme court is not political but given its composition and the fact that three of the

justices that are on that bench are on it because of donald trump, and do you think or are you concerned that might be a factor in the way they render their decision? >> what i can say is that i think the colorado supreme court got a right. they took a lot of time to look at this case. they did determine that donald trump engaged in insurrection and that he is not above section three of the 14th amendment. to answer your question, slightly more direct, i don't think any of us should weigh on the supreme court to save our democracy. that is going to be up to the american people. they will have various times to vote this upcoming election and the american people will be able to save democracy once again in november. >> secretary, i wanted to get your thoughts on something different from this, one that has become front and center on the national discourse. it is one of the legislative priorities that you've said is your top ones, cracking down on a.i.

artificially generated deepfakes. fake elector scheme's. people are very concerned that a.i. will play a role in our elections in a negative way. i'm curious to get your thoughts on that and how we and you are combatting the risk of a.i. interfering in the election. >> we are going after to face this legislative session. a. so deepfakes and then fake electors. the start off with fake electors, i think it should be clearly a crime if someone has a scheme to put fake electors in place to steal the presidency from the american people that they should face consequences. when this law is passed and enacted it will be the first in the nation. and when it comes to a.i. and deepfakes, it's incredibly concerning for our democracy. we view a.i. as basically being able to

supercharge the cyberattacks and disinformation attacks we've seen in recent years. we are tackling this issue head on. we want to make sure to alert coloradans that if they are consuming a deepfake, they know that they are. while at the same time protecting first amendment rights. we are also going to build in our law of the affordability -- the person who is made to look or say something that a candidate, an elected official to bring a lawsuit. so i look forward to both these priorities getting across the finish line. colorado is considered the nation's gold standard in elections, in part because we tackle these big evolving issues with the really smart public policy. >> we will wait to see what happens again, what happens in colorado could be a model for the rest of the country in many ways, including both this decision from the supreme court and this legislative attempt to regulate a.i. in our elections. colorado secretary of state jena griswold, always a pleasure. thank you for coming back on the show. it is great to see. >> thank you.

>> we have breaking news from capitol hill. the senate releasing its long awaited text of its bill to send aid to both israel and ukraine, as well as funding for our southern border. the president just called on house republicans to act. and the question now is, what will speaker johnson do? speak? okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) new herbal essences sulfate free. packed with pure aloe and camellia flower oil your hair will love. and none of the things it won't. hair that feels deeply nourished, soft and lightweight. new herbal essences.

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breaking news from capitol hill. the text of the senate border and foreign aid package has now been released. in a statement, majority leader chuck schumer called the long awaited bill, quote, one of the most necessary and important pieces of legislation in congress has put forward in years. to ensure america's future, prosperity, and security. in just a short time ago, for his part, president biden issuing his own statement on it, praising the bill, while noting, quote, why this agreement does not address everything i would've wanted, these reforms are essential for making our

border more orderly, secure, fair, and humane. here are the top lines of it. 118 billion -- includes aid for israel, ukraine, and taiwan. it also includes new border security measures. schumer said he plans to schedule is -- four on wednesday, the majority leader cautioned his fellow senators to, quote, shut out the noise from those who want this agreement to fail for their own political agendas. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell urged the senate to, quote, carefully consider the opportunity in front of us and prepare to act. and the reveal of the senate bill comes just a day after speaker mike johnson released a statement of its own, announcing the house will vote this week on his counter proposal, a stand-alone bill to provide billions of dollars in aid to israel. johnson is asking for 17.6 billion dollars for israel's military and u.s. military forces across the region. and if approved, the funding would add to the 14.3 billion dollar package the house passed back in october in the wake of hamas's attack on israel.

since its founding, israel has received about 300 billion dollars in assistance from the u.s., making it the largest cumulative recipient of foreign aid. while this includes significant economic assistance, all of this aid to israel goes to one place, its military. in total the u.s. has given over -- in military aid and most of that aid, approximately 3.3 billion dollars a year comes in the form of grants under the foreign military financing program. meaning those funds must be used by israel to purchase u.s. military equipment and services. however, israel has also been permitted to use a portion of its fmf aid to buy equipment from israeli defense firms. that's unusual because it's a benefit not granted to other recipients of u.s. military aid. in the end, u.s. aid reportedly

accounts for some 15% of israel's total defense budget. however, a recent ruling by the international court of justice, which found, in part, that it is plausible that israel's recent military operations in gaza have violated the geneva convention, and the genocide convention, it has sparked calls for the u.s. to review its current policy providing aid and arms to the nation. see, military aid from the united states usually comes along with conditions, like the leahy law. it was first approved by congress back in 1997. that law requires the u.s. cut off transfers of military aid to, quote, any unit of the security forces of a foreign country of the secretary of state have credible information that such a unit has committed a gross violation of human rights. however, recent reporting from the guardian shows how the state department implemented special mechanisms for israel to get around the leahy law. and it is worth noting here that while we are discussing

even the possibility of conditioning aid to you -- israel, the u.s. has already slashed funding for humanitarian purposes inside gaza. following israel's allegations that more than a dozen staff members from the united nations relief and works agency were involved in the october 7th attack, the united states and multiple other allies immediately paused funding to the agency. and while it is no doubt that these are serious accusations that deserve a thorough and credible investigation, the u.s. did not wait for that investigation to conclude before they cut off the funding. it went ahead and halted the funding nearly on the allegations. and the impact of the suspension and funding will have devastating consequences. under what is the primary aid organization in the region, it has provided a lifeline for millions of palestinians assisting them with food, medical care, schooling, and housing. critics say this recent move from the u.s. and other allies will only add to that humanitarian crisis inside

gaza. with the head of -- funding remain suspended, the agency will most likely be forced to shut down operations by the end of the month. israel every single year. the united states's decision to cut agents and agencies shows that actions have consequences, even potential violations from staffers at unrwa could jeopardize the entire agency, putting millions of palestinian lives at risk. this begs the question, does the same standard applied to the israeli government and israeli government made militarily? and the taxpayer money that it receives from a seemingly unconditionally every year? that is the question that i'm going to ask democratic congressman mark pocan of wisconsin after the break.

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to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry. (crowd cheers) sore throat got your tongue? mucinex instasoothe sore throat medicated drops. uniquely formulated for rapid relief that lasts and lasts. that's my babyyy! -ow! get mucinex instasoothe. it's comeback season. on friday, senator bernie sanders announced his plans to announce an amendment that would remove more than ten billion dollars in -- funding for israel's government. senator sanders said he wanted to, quote, ensure zero funding for the continuation of prime minister benjamin netanyahu's a -- illegal, immoral war against the palestinian people. this came days after two of his colleagues demanded answers from president biden over his handling of israel's war on

gaza. senator elizabeth warren and brian schatz sent a letter to the state department asking the minister to outline exactly how they plan to use u.s. leverage to make netanyahu change course in gaza, and stop rejecting a two-state solution. the senators requested a written response and in-person meetings to discuss the administration strategy. that congressman mark pocan joins us. he's a democrat from wisconsin to discuss this and more. congressman, great to see you again. good to have you back on the show. as you saw there, as i laid out before the united states history with israel, it runs deep. with the shared amount of aid provided to the country every year, the u.s. should in theory have significant leverage here over its conduct. certainly the stated policies. do you think that it is exerting that leverage enough to get israelis to comply with a two-state solution that is our stated objective? do you agree with the colleagues in the senate that this administration could be doing more?

>> thank you for having me, ayman. there is no question that we should be doing more to ensure that there is peace in the region. benjamin netanyahu unfortunately is really doing more to keep himself out of jail with his actions rather than having peace in the region. i've been to the region three times. i can tell you the last time i was there. just to reiterate it, i have seen previously that the people of israel and people of palestine brought peace. people in israel do not have bombs coming out of gaza. people in palestine want human rights and to be treated with dignity. you can do that with a two-state solution. that's why it's the u.s. position, and joe biden's position. it is not benjamin netanyahu's position. the fact that we are providing as much support as we are, especially with the bill coming, out it means we should have more say in this. as we are seeing right now, there seems to be some mission creep. we are watching additional areas in the region now that they are having to be involved.

people like me, my top priority is to make sure that we never have to send young americans, many men and women into harm's way without a good reason. if we are not able to convince benjamin netanyahu that he is being too harsh, that the direction he is taking is not engaging in peace for the region. you know, perhaps, there should be restrictions on any funding at minimum. we should be much more aggressive and convincing for benjamin netanyahu to follow what me and the people of israel, one and the people of america. >> you're poking holes in the funding. i want to dig into that a little bit. i will start with the senate bipartisan bill, an 18 billion dollar package. that includes border security measures. aid to israel, ukraine, and taiwan. does this bill have any chance of making it through the house where speaker johnson is introducing his own bill carving out eight -- for israel and american troops in the region, not doing anything on

immigration or ukraine. >> it's hard to predict what can happen in the republican cold house these days. it was really trying to derail this bipartisan effort on all sorts of things. specifically funding for ukraine. i've never seen the house majority before be so beholden to whatever donald trump wants in essence. or whatever vladimir putin wants. they're not willing to provide the support that i think that we have all wanted to support. virtually emit -- every democrat in a good chunk of republicans would vote for support for ukraine. however with the way that they function, and the rule changes they have made last year where they don't even want to do anything in a bipartisan way, they have a ridiculous idea to just provide funding for israel, and nothing else. that is not an answer. it's really just a way to stop anything from happening in the bipartisan way. predicting mike johnson, predicting marjorie taylor greene, if i could do that i would be in vegas not congress.

>> fair enough with the prediction. but what it says about all of the issues in front of them, including the on board, or things that have to be done in this country, including helping ukraine. as we have heard, and as of others pointed out, -- they have only acted on getting more money to israel immediately. >> right. first of, all they seem to be supporting vladimir putin, and as down on trump would like to. they have not done ukraine funding. we've got half of the caucus against any funding for ukraine. the rhetoric around the border is also ridiculous. we have watched congress for two decades not do anything. the closest they got was my freshman term of congress back in 2013. there was a bipartisan bill out of the senate that had 68 votes. you, know these, days that's almost unanimous. if you get anything close to that. and then john deere never took it up. we've only gone downhill with how we deal with this. it is donald trump, this issue has been so politicized. recently, watching the republican say that they don't

want a deal because they do not want to give any help to joe biden. all of the rhetoric about the border has been completely bs. it's not even close to going through. what we know that when donald trump was president, and for two years had a republican majority in the house and senate, they did nothing about the border. that is what it's really about. right now, they just don't want to stop anything from happening outside of the senate. that's why we need to call them out. >> i wanted to ask you about -- for a moment. as i laid out a little bit of this dumb -- double standard for how they are dealing with funding for this organization compared to others. the united states has an independently verified israel's claims that unrwa up's workers took part in october 7th attack. it seems like whatever evidence persuaded allies to pause funding for the agency. that decision could have a devastating impact on the civilians of gaza, who as you know very well, are already struggling and facing all kinds of humanitarian catastrophes.

do you think that the u.s. made the right decision here? >> no. absolutely not. i think that i am one of the strongest supporters of unrwa the days in congress. i've been in the region multiple times. they feed 1.2 million people a day prior to october 7th. they educate 300,000 children. if they are not doing, it it is hamas that is. we can either decide that hamas is going to do all of this stuff, which we know they won't, do it's going to be continued problems in gaza. we can also find an organization that is doing the right thing, providing this humanitarian support. right now, half 1 million people are on the verge of starvation. women, children, and men in gaza. the takeaway funding for the group that does the most humanitarian assistance in the region, i think it's a mistake. let's be really clear. if 12 people -- or for that matter, 20 people, or 100 people were involved out of their 13,000 employees, they should have to be held accountable. 13,000 employees, probably the

worst area on the planet right now. you simply cannot be responsible and keep track of every one of those 13,000 people. they did immediately fire those people. that's what we need to do. make sure that we are still protecting the humanitarian assistance that they need and gaza. hold accountable for anybody that was involved. >> they said they fired him and are also going to hold him accountable criminally if this investigation leads to that conclusion. congressman mark pocan, it is always a pleasure. thank you for making time for us this hour. that is the end of ayman four this hour. we have another hour of ayman coming up after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪ coming up after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪

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