and process. even though brothers might be neglected and overlooked politically, they are there for each other. they are my brother's keeper, making sure that nothing else -- >> i think for me. the thing that resonates most is that the idea that, hey, we can disagree without being disagreed with. that was one of the things that was so important. oftentimes, the image of black men in america is one where we either have to be and completely lockstep with each other, or oftentimes, at odds. this was a conversation that shows that we don't always have to agree. it has nothing to do with the fact that i still see you as my brother. that was super important. >> all black travels have been to me emphasized in brotherhood. no matter what is happening now, we know that our steps moving forward will be stronger together. to that, my brother, cheers to you. to brotherhood, what is next? >> indeed.

well, it's been one of those weekends where we kind of need for hours to talk about everything that has happened. we will do our best to fit it all into one. on friday night, there is a much anticipated round of retaliatory airstrikes against iranian- backed militias. serious as there are more on the way. there is nobody better to talk to the national security advisor jake sullivan. he will join me in just a few minutes. there is also a big development this weekend, jack smith's election interference case as it slid off of the calendar. in large part, we still don't have a decision on trump's -- should we be freaking out? should we not be freaking out? everybody's favorite cocktail is going to tell us how we should be feeling. and later this hour, we will -- shocking level of hypocrisy for republicans in the house this week. congressman dan goldman has certainly not held back in calling it out. i'm looking forward to breaking it all down with him. and later, president biden won big in south carolina last night. we're also hearing a lot about how he's describing trump behind closed doors. and for a while, i wasn't exactly shocked.

let's just say my mom wouldn't have a word with me for putting some of it verbatim on television. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> so we are continuing with breaking news out of the middle east where the united states launched major retaliatory strikes on 85 iranian-backed targets across seven locations in iraq and syria on friday night. president biden said on friday that the u.s. military response will continue at times and places of our choosing. meaning that will be more. this response of course follows the deadly drone attack in jordan that was carried out by iranian-backed militant groups, just one week ago. and killed three american soldiers shown there. -- the first time u.s. troops were killed by enemy fire since the beginning of the israel- hamas war.

now, we know our response to this attack was coming. president biden vowed to respond, moments after the drone strike a week ago. and over the course of the last week, there have undoubtedly been meetings in the situation room. and in the white house, to discuss the options for a response. i've been there for moments like this, and these meetings typically start at lower levels. below the president, to consider and agree on a range of options to propose back to him. the defense department is of course in the league, the president would then typically present it with these options, including from the lowest response to the most aggressive response. and these would include analysis about the impact, about the day after this campaign finishes. because, and this is why it's important. unlike the warmongering rhetoric of some members of congress done safely in the halls of congress and on twitter, when you're in the situation room, or in the pentagon, you're not thinking about what is going to sound

the most aggressive on twitter, what's going to be re-tweeted the most. you are thinking about how any action will further your military and diplomatic objectives. in this case, those objectives were to send a clear message from the commander-in-chief that he will not stand by as his people are targeted and killed. but the objective is also, the larger objective in some ways, is also to de-escalate, by -- the capabilities of these groups. because one of the only ways to reduce the attacks from these groups is to reduce their capacity to attack. and we don't know yet what iran will do in response, we don't know yet. reports were just there not seeking a war with united states. a war that they would lose militarily. but now that this retaliation from the united states has officially begun, there are a lot of big questions that remain. how will it and? can the u.s. effectively degrade the capabilities of these, without sparking a larger conflict? and how does the impact of any of this impact the diplomatic efforts underway right now to bring about a cease-fire in gaza? one of the people whose

considering all of these questions and many more right now is national security advisor jake sullivan. he's briefing the president on these matters, he is in every single conversation and meeting about what is happening right now. and he's already planning for what comes next. joining me now is national security adviser, jake slick been. hi jake, good morning. so let me start. the strike this morning sent a clear message, there's no doubt about that. but as we look to the next stage, and clearly there is an exchange as you've all indicated, what can we expect? i know you're not going to outline it in detail, but are we looking at the possibility of cyberattacks, are we looking at the targeting of individual leaders, are those things on the table at this point? >> well, john, it's a good question, and it's a fair question. but unfortunately it's not what i can answer sitting on television today, because obviously we don't want to telegraph the next steps in our response, some of which will be seen, some may be on scene. but president biden was clear that what you saw on friday night in the strikes in iraq and syria was the beginning,

not the end of our response. so there will be more steps in the coming days. i just unfortunately can't lio with those might be. >> of course, we will be watching closely. let's talk about the response, because some have read the statement from a week ago by the group the pentagon believes is responsible for the attacks in jordan as an indication that iran does not want to escalate. there has also of course been the statements in recent days by the foreign minister, which could be directed at domestic audience in iran, no question. but how do you -- their public communications? does it send message feud that they want to de-escalate, or what is your assessment? >> look, our assessment is that actions are going to be important here, not words. iran has a long history of saying one thing, and then doing another. so we are going to watch for actions in the days and weeks ahead. and that will determine our response, rather than anything they try to publicly signal. for his part, president biden has been clear. if you come into the united

states, we will respond, and that's what we did on friday night. but he's also been clear that we are not looking for a wider war. we are not looking to escalate this conflict. and he has sent that message publicly through his remarks, and we have reinforced that. how tehran chooses to proceed from here, obviously, will be up to them. but we will watch them carefully and we are prepared to deal with whatever comes next. >> you know better than everyone there are means of communicating with the iranians, and there have been fits and starts of that over the course of the last several years. is there an open line of communication, are there any channels right now to try to de- escalate? >> we have had channels of communication over the past few months, they are not the most direct and straightforward in the world, but they do work. but in the last few days, our message to iran has come through our actions, not through those channels.

>> or they through third-party countries, or through the u.n., or directly through u.s. officials and iranian officials? >> again, it's a very good question, and a very fair question, but again, it's one that i can't elaborate further, just to say we have ways of being in touch as necessary, and we have to protect those channels, so i can't describe them further. >> i think it is interesting that you do have those channels, which i think would be surprising to some people watching. let me ask you about the political side of this, jake. because for a few days before the u.s. retaliation, the president did telegraph a response was coming, that wasn't a surprise to anyone. there were three u.s. members of the military lost, but speaker mike johnson was among those who criticize this. he said the public hand wringing and excessive signaling undercuts our ability to put a decisive and to the barrage of attacks injured over the past

few months. i'm the first to say frequently that it is easy to launch things -- and also do that from the hallways of congress. but when he says things like that, do you take that seriously, or how do you address that at all? where do you? >> look, the bottom line is that we hit what we wanted to hit when we wanted to hit it, our response is unfolding according to the advice of the military commanders to the president, it's not going on the timeline that speaker johnson is going to put out publicly, and this idea that somehow striking on friday as opposed to wednesday as opposed to thursday makes any strategic difference has no basis in reality. so we think that yes, there is some armchair quarterback and going, on because it's political season. but we are also very confident in the steps we've taken in response. so far, they have been well- planned, they've been well executed, and that will continue to be the case.

>> is it correct then to read that it didn't change your effectiveness in reaching your targets, or what you are trying to do to degrade these proxies, their military capabilities, you won't be telegraphing it, that is. >> when you select a military target, timing matters. sometimes it's important to hit it very fast, sometimes it's important to wait for the right moment. and that bright moment can come if you days later, a few weeks later, and so we built a military campaign or a military response around both the question of target and timing. and this target and this timing were selected for operational reasons, and we did want to do when we wanted to do it. and of course mike johnson should understand that it's not going to stop him or others from coming out to be critical, because they're looking to make some political head. >> the other political piece, unfortunately, right now, jake,

is the number of leaders in the republican party who have been basically, before even the attacks on our troops are before the three individuals died, suggesting we should strike iran within its borders. now, reports have suggested that was never on the table, i guess my first question is that correct? my second is, why is not striking within the border of iran, not necessarily in the strategic interest of the united states, even though you have candidates calling for this on the debate stage, lots of people again calling for this in the hallway, even before these three u.s. soldiers died. >> first, i'll say it's very easy to call for things when you are not in the seat that has to deal with the consequences of actually doing those things. when you are sitting in the situation room, it becomes a lot more real, and that's been true across multiple presidents. i would also point out that the last president, the one before him, the one before him, republicans and democrats, have dealt with the challenge of iran-backed militants killing american forces, and none of them have struck inside iran.

so that tells you something. that being said, i think it's very important that sitting on television, i not be in the business of religion or ruling out any kind of specific response. so i am not going to confirm or deny or speak to the report that you have indicated or say what's on the table or off the table when it comes to our response. but i would point out that the president has been clear that he wants to respond forcefully, but he also is not looking to start a wider regional war. that's the basic north star of how he is looking at this approach. respond forcefully, but seek to avoid entangling the united states in a broader regional conflict. >> so, it sounds like -- i understand you're not going to get into details here, but it's not off the table. you're not taking offense off the table, but obviously it isn't a step you have done to date. >> we have not done it to date,

and i'm not putting it on the table either. i want to be very clear, on the table, off the table, ruling in, rolling out, i'm just not going to speak to what the exact targets or deliberations will be. because the president deserves the space to be able to make those decisions without me laying them out on television. so i don't want to lead people to think one way or the other on the issue. it's just a matter that i cannot address in the public space at this point. >> national security advisor jake sullivan, a let you get back to your day job. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. >> thank you. >> coming up, house republicans do things that are reasonably hypocritical, and they're very few members i like talking to about what's really going on, to say it straight. more than congressman dan goldman. he joins me in a few minutes. but before that, trump's federal election trial has officially been postponed. -- presidential immunity. i've been wondering all weekend

what andrew weissmann and neal katyal think about all of this, and what is going on. and they're up next. we're back after a quick break.

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>> we all know there is an enormous cloud hanging over this election, we all feel. it or you can actually say there are 91 enormous clouds, given the 91 criminal charges facing donald trump. and whether he's convicted of those charges could actually have an impact on the general election. a brand-new poll out this morning from nbc news shows trump leading joe biden by five

points. but biden actually pulls ahead when voters are asked how they vote if trump is convicted of a crime. so, we know it's a big factor. but here's the problem. there's an old saying in this country that the wheels of justice turn slowly, and we certainly respect that. but that's not exactly ideal when the outcome of these cases could really impact how people feel about their choices this november. so the more we wait, the longer these big trials and decisions get delayed, the late will know whether they might be voting for a convicted felon, say. on friday afternoon, judge tanya chutkan officially dropped -- he she says she set a new date after the u.s. appeals court makes a decision on trump's seemingly absurd claim of presidential immunity. which we've been waiting and waiting and waiting for. legal -- andrew weissmann has some thoughts about this delay. he wrote, hey d.c. circuit trump panel, snapped you know. you really making the judiciary look at this point. just in case you are also wondering, and i was, snap into tool is not a legal term, that i'm aware of. though it does certainly stick with you. joining me now is our in-house law firm, finally back together again on a sunday. no cut yelle's former acting u.s. solicitor general, andrew weissmann is the former general counsel of the fbi and a senior member of special counsel robert mueller's team. and he's the coauthor of a new

book, i don't know how he's had time to right, coming at the end of the month, called the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary. andrew, let's start with you. your snap under comment is really how all of us feel. it stuck with us. explain what could be taking them so long at this point. >> so, it's worth remembering that in any normal case, this is actually not long at all. but this isn't a normal case, and the circuit did agree to expedite the briefing and oral arguments. so, what is -- too many people following, this is that they haven't issued their decision sort of in conformity with the speed with which they asked the parties to brief on this panel, not one judge. so that requires some coordination. and the presiding judge, judge henderson, may -- we don't know, but uddgmaybe the holdup in terms of issuing the

decision. i should say, the people thinking this will preclude accountability in a criminal case, with the result is that the manhattan criminal case, which is scheduled for the end of march, mayberry will now be the first one. that was a case that everyone sort of understood, it was going to get put off if the d.c. federal case went forward on march 4th. but the results of this slowing of the d.c. federal case is that manhattan, the first case that was indicted, may in fact be the first case to go forward at the end of march. >> which is not necessarily ideal, politically. obviously that's not on the judicial system works. neil, let me go to you, because andrew raised a very important point here. this is normal pacing here. as much as we are all impatient and as much as it's not aligned with the timing, give us a sense of what else could be going on behind the scenes here, in your assessment, and if this is not the moving

forward soon, as i, mean in the coming weeks, could the federal election trial start in june, july, and still be concluded before the election? >> it could. i mean, my view is that actually n?the normal schedule for an appeal of this magnitude with these types of public interest at state would've been decided by now. so i understand like an ordinary garden-variety of geek sees circuit appeals, they take longer, i think an average disposition time of about six months. but in a case of this gravity, it should be moving more quickly. take, for example, when the court of appeals for the south, reversed judge cannon's decision last year to protect donald trump, that took them i think nine days. and so do use your phrase, jen, at emthe beginning of the show, i'm officially now at the frigate stage. i resisted that for a long time, but we are now -- >> you don't typically freak- out, so that's important.

>> i think we are now at the point to use a different legal phase, justice delayed is justice denied. i can't imagine more compelling need for speed than the idea that american citizens deserve to t know before the election, whether a candidate for office is a felon and an insurrectionist. and it's even more galling to me, because this is an easy case. there is no responsible constitutional scholar who thinks donald trump is right. there is an absolute immunity, that a president can go and order that the navy s.e.a.l. team six to go murder his political opponent, and then go and murder the senators who would try him for impeachment. that cannot possibly be right, and judge chutkan set a fast schedule here, and i have no idea what the court of appeals is doing right now. but i can tell you that i am really worried that if this delay is going to put the trial past june, it's possible that

trump will try and go to the supreme court after he loses in the court of appeals, that could take months. that'll be a real problem. >> judge chutkan, i think, you need to remind people, she's just adopting to waiting for this ruling, so she is just trying to adapt to that. okay, andrew. because you are also known for keeping all of us calm here, and keeping millions of msnbc viewers calm. where are you on the freak-out meter here on your end? >> neil and i are in violent agreement on this. and to just add a little fuel to the fire, i mean, whatever judge or judges are slowing this in the d.c. circuit, it is akin to what judge chin is doing in florida, this is really not looking good for the federal judiciary, in terms of their responsibility to the electorate. whether it's judge cannon who has basically issued a pocket veto on that case, and a really slow walk back for no apparent

reason, and you have the same thing going on in the d.c. circuit. so i agree with neal that there really iis no reason for the delay. it's coming in a case with, remember, the legal claim here that donald trump is making is absurd. it is one of those things where the oral arguments, the best argument against him was the judge getting the lawyer for donald trump to actually just say what his argument was, because it was so preposterous. so the idea that this is going to lead to losing the war, because even though this decision ultimately will be against donald trump, the delay is allowing him to essentially win the battle. >> everybody heard the freak out level here, for people who don't freak out. so fwith the minute we have le here, you've argued a lot e of cases, to put it mildly, in front of the supreme court. the justices are hearing oral

arguments about the 14th amendment case later this week in colorado. what are you going to be watching for? >> i think there have been phenomenal that are friends of the court briefs that were filed in this case. i don't think the policies were that good, but if you make your way through the court briefs, there's a right legal answer,, jen and it's authored by william ball and michael paulson, who were too conservative federalist society lawyers, and they say trump is disqualified, and yes, trump has many defenses, but they all failed. like trump says, he is not an insurrectionist, you're right. he says the president isn't an officer under the united states constitution, but the text says otherwise, as does the original intent. he says you need a lot of congress, but that would blow a hole through the 14th amendment and its other clauses like people protection. wytrru b sam he doesn't actually have good legal arguments, and so hopefully the advocates can really bring that about on thursday and make that point heard, and can speak truth to power and say you've talked all about the original intent of the founders, here the original intent of the founders is very

clear. someone like donald trump has no business running for office in our constitutional democracy. >> neil cotula and andrew weissmann, will we will be talking to you about that whenever legal arguments happen this week. congressman dan goldman is standing by, i'm going to ask about some comments from his republican colleagues this week that you really just have to hear to believe. we are back after a quick break. after a quick break. en days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. ♪ ♪ nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ♪

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oh sure. what's up? get fast, powerful cough relief with robitussin, and find your voice. ♪robitussin♪ jordan's sore nose let out a fiery sneeze, so dad grabbed puffs plus lotion to soothe her with ease. puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin and locks in moisture to provide soothing relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue. well this week, a lot of republican members of congress seem to basically forget what their job actually is. i mean, their job is supposed to be their continuance, to say the obvious. and passing legislation that helps people find their community. but this week on capitol hill, we saw a group of lawmakers acting like campaign managers for the reelection bid of former president trump, than anything else.

>> passing a tax bill that makes that president looks good, mailing out checks before the election, means that he could be reelected, and then we won't extend the 2017 -- >> milling out checks means he could be reelected. okay. so that was republican senator chuck grassley, outright dismissing a bipartisan dax bill. one that could lift at least half 1 million children out of poverty, because it would help president biden look good. he said, it literally. then there's the situation on the southern border, where cynicism from congress also continue this week. >> why would we do anything right now to help with a 33%? do you believe if joe biden's approval rating was at 53%, we would even be talking about the border? we wouldn't be talking about the southern border. that he has to do something, because he's hemorrhaging. he is bleeding. >> -- during the interview. but that aside, why would we do anything to -- country? if it is bad for donald trump.

remember, republicans push for border legislation for years, and just months ago, demanded president biden tie funding for ukraine to the situation at the border. and now, they are threatening to tank the very deal that they asked for, before they even see the actual text of it. speaker mike johnson not only refused to honor the deal that he proposed, but he says he is now open to passing a clean funding passing -- after holding it up since october. not only that, but house republicans are even threatening to impeach homeland security secretary mayorkas because, according to them, he is not doing enough to fix the problem at the border. when there is a siege luton that is literally in front of him, they ignorant. they ignore it, why? because donald trump doesn't want a solution. he wants the problem, because without the problem, he wouldn't have much left to run on. joining me now is democratic congressman dan goldman of new york. so, congressman, those comments

from chuck grassley, there are many others like them but they kind of take my breath away. breakdown for us exactly what's going on here, and what you attribute it to? >> well, what's going on is that the republicans have used the border as a political cudgel for this entire congress. and they have passed in the house and extreme, extreme draconian measure that would not actually effectively address the border issues. so, now, president biden, secretary mayorkas, and a bipartisan group of senators, at the urging of the republicans who, as you say, linked the ukraine funding as well as other international funding for democracies around the world, to the border, now, as they are nearing completion or they have completed a bipartisan deal by all accounts, has many measures that republicans have been crying for four decades, now as it's ready to become law, they

want to sabotage it and undermine it. and the only reason is because donald trump wants to use the border as a political weapon, as a political cudgel, and he can't do that, if a bipartisan group actually passes legislation to solve the issues at the border. so he would rather have the chaos, because it's better for himself, then he would the solution, which is better for the american people. >> speaker mike johnson said this morning that he was actually in charge of calling the shots. i thought a little hard to believe, but i also wanted to ask, you because you wrote an op-ed about this, and this really stuck out to be, across here. meanwhile, simultaneously, they're doing this will simultaneously trying to impeach the secretary of homeland for saying, in their words, that he's not doing enough about the border. but they are blocking legislation that would help do something about the border. you have an op-ed, but give me

your take on that. >> well, the cynicism and hypocrisy is startling. the house republicans are trying to impeach secretary mayorkas for failing to address the problems at the border. while he is negotiating with the senate, legislation, that is necessary, because executive action is insufficient in this situation, he is negotiating legislation that would address the border. so the house republicans, rather then gauging those negotiations to try to find bipartisan solutions in a divided government, instead are using this sham impeachment that is absolutely baseless, that to means and debases the impeachment clause of the institution, turns it into a pure political weapon, and they are doing that while president biden and secretary mayorkas are trying to solve the problems at the border. they are doing this purely for political reasons, and political gain. and what it is showing right

now is that republicans, especially in the house, do not want to solve the problems that the american people care about, they just want power, and the just want to help donald trump. >> it's such an important point, and you have a unique experience with this, there's an impeachment clause in the constitution that they are essentially making fun of by what they are doing. it's absurd what they are doing. i want to ask, i just want to turn to the legal side, because you have a great deal of experience in that as well. and the d.c. circuit, of course, hasn't ruled on trump's claim of immunity. it seems like it's taking a very long time. what, in your mind, is going on there, that people aren't seeing or we are not aware of, and are you concerned about the delay? for >> well, look. i have cleared on an appeals court, and there's a lot of black and fourth among the judges, as their hashing out an opinion. there may be a descent, it may be trying to find a compromise of opinion going back and

forth. we don't know, and it's impossible to read the tea leaves. i think what is very clear is that if that claim of absolute immunity prevails in any way shape or form, it would completely eviscerate the fundamental notions of the rule of law, that no one is above the law. in that was brought up very clearly by one of the judges in the oral arguments. i would expect the opinion will deny the presidents request. i will expect it to go to the supreme court, and we will have a ruling on it by june at the latest. >> you think june at the latest. i was going to ask you, it's now off the calendar for march. if it starts in june, could it be done before the election? will voters be able to know if they are voting for a convicted felon or not? >> yes, it should be done based on what i view to be judge

chutkan's very rigid and stern views of the schedule. and the control that she has over her courtroom. so even if there is an opinion by the supreme court in june, this trial could start in july, and it would be over by the end of the summer. >> a lot of work for the courts, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon, congressman dan goldman. always appreciate speaking with you. >> thank you, john. >> so after a quick break, we're going to dig into some of the things joe biden has been saying about donald trump behind closed doors that don't necessarily surprise me, but i can't repeat them on television. we will talk about all of that when we come back. come back.

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>> okay, there are a couple things that happened this week that may have gotten democrats little excited. i mean, i'm not talking over the, moon doing back flips excited. but definitely a little excited. i was a report from politico revealing some of the things joe biden calls donald trump behind closed doors.

we are going to put it up on the screen, none of it surprised me, really. but we are a family show, but we're not going to say if it. you get the idea from what is there, i'm not condoning, it but there were definitely some democrats out there who may have felt seen by it. and then last night in south carolina, a resounding victory for the president in the first official primary contest on the democratic side. not unexpected, necessarily, but 96% is pretty good on any test, it's much higher than what the polls were predicting under any circumstances. joining me now is my friend -- she's the former communications director for president obama, now the host of the msnbc podcast, which is excellent, how to win 2024. so, let's start with the primary last night. because the president did do far better than what the polls were predicting, in terms of the percentage of the vote he got. what did you make of the turnout numbers, and other things that you've worked out in terms of the data from last night? >> so, it was a fraction of how many people voted in 2020, but

that's to be expected. it was still in the high tens of thousands of people who voted. interestingly, for the turnout operation, it was -- the voters that turned out in 24, a much higher percentage of black voters. 76% of the voters that turned out yesterday were black voters, in 2020, that number was around 56%. so in terms of -- with both new hampshire and south carolina, their small towns, but they have enthusiasm and -- just how they're dealing with -- and you know, jen, maybe i'll say this off camera, but what they pulled off in new hampshire is a big deal, to get people to write in joe biden after he dissed new hampshire and walked away from new hampshire. it was a big deal, it's a hard thing. and then last night, they revealed in south carolina, there's not a real reason, it's not a competitive primary. but a lot of black voters did, and that shows enthusiasm and support for biden. so both states are good, and

then on tuesday we have nevada, so that's another good -- labor's a big deal and of that. -- all of it as you alluded to, is exercising the organizational muscle, which is a good thing. i alluded to this at the top but there were some things that president biden reportedly said. i have no doubt about this, by the way, behind closed doors, about -- what's important to me about the reporting to point out, is his frustration was about how trump is so self involved and doesn't care about the american people. that's why he used those words that i won't use on tv, because my mom will be mad. but what did you make of that, and what do you think even democrats out there who want a little pizzazz? >> the -- very upset that the -- just say sugar. >> we both know joe biden, we

know fundamentally he is one of the most decent people you know. and i think that is what really bothers him about trump, is the way trump treats people. and the way he talks about people who serve in the military, calling them losers, and said don't show disabled veterans, nobody wants to see that. particularly for the biden -- having lost a son that served in the military, it's such a big deal. and i do think it shows -- unlike trump, biden doesn't say this allowed in public. and i think it does sort of make a difference, a key difference. >> yeah, that's a big difference. i will point that out. now before i let you go, i just wanted to ask you. there's a new poll out by msnbc, there is lots to dig into here. if we had more time. if it does show -- but when voters are active trump is convicted of a felony he pulls

ahead by two points. obviously the biden campaign can control convictions, he's not talking about it purposely. is there anything that the biden campaign can work with that's telling about those numbers? >> the conviction, i think that matters, that means the message around democracy, that means the message around protecting elections, protecting the republic, even if president biden's not going to talk about the court cases, that is -- the court cases are at the root of that argument about how we need democracy. and so i think you can still, even as the trials are going on, i heard what neal and andrew had to say about it all. you can be making this argument alongside the campaign without giving in to the nuts and bolts of the court cases. so that is, even as trump continues to perform better than biden in the economy, which is a whole other frustrating thing for the biden team to deal with, i think it

will get better. they know that this issue is something that they have from independent voters, from republicans, that are open to voting for him in 2024. >> before i let you go back to that cozy looking home behind you -- >> welcome to my living room. >> i love it. do you think that nikki haley is going to -- south carolina at this point? >> it's a hard choice for them. i guess. i noticed her new metric, her new metric is as long as we continue to close the gap, which i think means perform better than polling suggests, she could probably pull that off in south carolina. sorry, that was my oven. so -- probably stay until super tuesday, so she can approve delegates, and if the court cases are happening around the time of the convention, which they sound like they might be, the republican convention, maybe there's a reason for her, maybe the rupture, welcome as everybody says, maybe there's a reason for her to try to contest the -- that she has.

i think she probably will. also, we both know, it's really hard to quit. it's hard to be a presidential candidate and do that. so i think we will see her. >> it's a very important point, very hard, at least for the moment, to the dream. thank you as always, go get your oven. coming up next, we're going to dig into the rnc's cash funds and whether it's indicative of bigger problems within the republican party and the cash flow. i think so. i'll explain, that next. we'll be right back. right back. . most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. with the majority of my patients with sensitivity i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum and enamel it relieves sensitivity helps restore gum health and rehardens enamel. i am a big advocate of recommending things that i know work.

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so this week we learned that the governing body of the republican party, which is the republican national committee, only has $8 million cash on hand. now, that's important and significant because it's the worst cash crunch it's faced in a decade. according to the new site putt, the money is not coming in as quickly as it's bleeding out. which is of course, a big problem. so what exactly has the rnc did spend it is linear? >> that the rnc has spent millions of dollars to engage in 76 election integrity lawsuits in 22 states. and by election integrity lawsuits, what they basically mean is that the party's spending a lot of money defending the big lie. fighting to limit access, essentially, to the ballot box.

perhaps no supplies coming from the party of trump. but what's prettier on it is that at the very same time the rnc is also spending big on an early vote initiative called bank your vote. the program to get republicans to commit to voting early, in all 50 states, and six territories. a good thing, participating in democracy. let's just pause on all of this for a second, their priorities. because these two spending priorities are kind of a -- i mean, the rnc's election integrity lawsuits are expensive legal gamut, which foster distrust in early voting and in the system, we are all trusting on to counter votes. why would you go out and participate in a process that someone is telling you over and over again is rigged? while the rnc's bank your vote initiative is essentially designed to do the opposite. it's to engage republicans in the early voting process, and trust that their vote will be counted, overall a good thing. even more ironic, though, and definitely quite when a headache for anna mcdaniel, is that while the rnc intends to capitalize on early voting, the

leader of the republican party, you know the one, won't stop telling republicans to distrust the system. here he is just last month, after he won the iowa primary, railing against exactly what the rnc claims they are trying to fix. >> we are going to straighten out our elections, we are going to do a lot of great things. we're going to try to go to paper ballots as soon as possible. voter i.d.. one day, one day, elections. you know we have these elections that last four 62 days, and if you need some more time, take us much time as you want and so many bad things happen. we have to get rid of mail-in ballots because once you have mail-in ballots you have crooked elections. >> so, again. the rnc is spending millions of dollars on a banker vote early vote program. the leader of the party is saying don't trust the process, it's not legitimate. got it. but the seaming lee contradictory spending primary -- it turns out. and i feel a little bad for

them. -- the rnc's money problems have been -- because of lackluster enthusiasm for small and large donors alike. but do you know where republican small donors haven't stopped sending their money? you guessed it. donald trump's presidential campaign. in fact, trump has raised most of his campaign funds from small dollar donors, for the washington post. not abnormal, he's the candidate, in all likelihood. but the problem is, again, that a lot of these dollars aren't even going to the campaign. they're not going to reelect him. they're not advancing the republican agenda. because a whopping $55 million of that donor money went towards donald trump's legal fees this past year. 55 million. so trump is not only cannibalizing the rnc's message about the early vote and wasting their money on that program, he's cannibalizing would-be rnc donors for his personal legal bills. but i guess that's what you get when a party is tied with conspiracies and vic defensive-

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one quick note before we go, at nine pm eastern msnbc center mainly and civil rights attorney charles coleman junior will host black man in america the road to 2024. we'll be back here tomorrow night at eight pm eastern, but stay right where we are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. much more news com up on msnbc.