and joe biden on that, donald trump has a 23 point advantage on having the necessary mental and physical fitness to be president. jonathan, it is worth noting, again, we asked that question in 2020, right before the presidential election, and the score was pretty much tied. we do see an erosion for president biden in our polling, not only in the economy, but also on this fitness question. >> 23% suggest biden would be fit to be president again. that's a tough number there. senior political editor for nbc news, mark murray. thank you for walking through all of that with us. we appreciate it. thanks for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> our next question comes from someone who describes herself as a concerned south carolina voter. >> yes, hello. my question is, why won't you debate nikki haley? >> oh, my god.

it's her, the woman who was in charge of security on january 6th. it's nancy belosi. >> for the 100th time, that is not nancy pelosi. it is nikki haley. >> are you doing okay, donald? you might need a mental competency test. >> you know what i did? i took the test, and i aced it, okay? perfect score. they said i'm 100% mental. you know, i'm competent because i'm a man. that's why a woman should never run our economy. women are terrible with money. in fact, a woman i know recently asked me for $83.3 million. >> and you spent $50 million in your own legal fees. do you need to borrow some money? >> oh, don't do this, nikki. nikki, don't lose that number. nikki haley. joel osman we call her. "sixth sense," remember that one? i see dead people. >> yeah, that's what voters will say if they see you and joe on

the ballot. >> nikki haley making a surprise appearance on "saturday night live." the republican presidential candidate is coming off of her best month for fundraising despite calls from maga republicans to drop out of the race. also ahead, the details of the long-awaited bipartisan border deal which is now getting pushback from members on both sides of the aisle. plus, president biden ordered retaliatory strikes for the drone attack that killed u.s. troops in jordan. we'll go through that military action in the middle east and what could come next. meanwhile, the economy exceeding expectations. >> it is unbelievable, how well the economy is going. >> numbers are all looking good, but voters are not giving the president any credit for that. we'll dig into that disconnect. we'll also recap a record night for taylor swift at the grammys, a night dominated by female artists. good morning. welcome to "morning joe."

it is monday, february 5th. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan is with us this morning. good to have you with us. also months and months of negotiations, a bipartisan group of senators has reached a deal on a bill addressing border security and foreign aid. it's a $118 billion package. it calls for over $20 billion in border security measures that include hiring new asylum officers and border security agents, expanding the number of detention beds, and increasing screenings for fentanyl and other drugs. >> wow, that's all tough. >> the bill would end the practice of catch and release and raise the standard of asylum, which would send those away who do not qualify more quickly, while expediting the process for cases that do. >> republicans must love this. >> the legislation grants a new

emergency authority to the white house and the homeland security department to close the border once encounters reach a certain threshold. >> shut the border down, wow. >> shut it down. in terms of foreign aid, over $60 billion would be allotted for ukraine. $14 billion would be given to israel. $10 billion would be given for humanitarian assistance for civilians in gaza and the west bank. >> that's just good for everybody. >> makes everyone happy. despite the bill being crafted by a bipartisan group of senators, it is already facing major pushback from both sides of the aisle. two senate democrats, california senator alex padilla and new jersey senator bob menendez say they are against the bill. the house republican leadership say they won't bring the bill up for a vote, with speaker mike johnson saying it is even worse than expected. >> no. >> no, it's not.

>> that's just a lie. i'd love to know what bible he is looking at when he says he lives by the bible. because it's bizarre that this guy is worshipping at the feet of donald trump, basically does whatever donald trump tells him to do, and was, of course, the chief sponsor of the big lie in the house of representatives. just ask liz cheney. >> as speaker johnson calls this even worse than expected, the lead republican senator who negotiated the bill, james langford of oklahoma, responded to those comments. >> i'm a little confused how it's worse than expected when it builds border wall, expands deportation flights, expands ice officers, border patrol officers, detention beds, how it creates a faster process for deportation, how it clears up a lot of the long term issues and loopholes that have existed in the asylum law, and it gives us

emergency authority that stops the chaos right now on the border. so i'm a little confused. i'll have to be able to get with the speaker's team on that and find out what part would be quote, unquote, worse than what we expected, based on the actual text. hopefully they've had an opportunity to actually read through the text. >> you know, senator langford, jonathan lemire, obviously has good reason to be confused because this is the toughest border bill in a generation. if you'd read any of that to us a year or two ago, we'd all say, oh, yeah, that's the republican wish list. you go down it, it is a republican wish list. now, just because mike is being told by donald not to pass this bill, to continue to allow fentanyl to flood into the country, to continue to allow illegal immigrants to flood into this country, what do we have? we have a situation where they want to keep the border open because it's bad for america, and they believe what's bad for america is good for donald

trump. >> the text of the bill came out late yesterday. it sort of defies logic that everyone has read it so far. but that hasn't stopped a number of republicans from coming out vehemently against it. we've known for a while now it had a real uphill climb in the house, and speaker johnson is, as you just said, dramatically opposing it. he also compared himself to moses in an interview over the weekend. >> oh, my god. >> speaking about relreligion. >> is moses the architect of a big lie? >> he brought down the truth from the mount, i believe. that's how i remember it. >> yeah. >> but it is also now, this bill, as we'll hear more from our colleagues in a few minutes, also faing a real uphill climb in the senate. mitch mcconnell had a magic number of gop colleagues he wants to get there. that's seemingly unlikely. there's growing discussion that this is going to end up being some separate bills after all. speaker johnson already put one

forth just on israel. unclear what happens to ukraine. now, it seems like the border is going to go unaddressed, and this is something that poll after poll shows americans want its leaders to deal with. republicans for months have said, we will, until donald trump said, i'd like to preserve that as a campaign issue. what i'm told here, this is the make or break week for this bill. at the moment, there is an expectation that it'll fail. if it is defeated, i think we will then see, elise, i think, a real push for president biden to head to the border and say -- and it's not going to happen until it's done. he's not going this week. but when this is done and if it fails, he'll go there and say, "i was willing to sign this, the toughest border security bill in history." aides tell me that'll be the message. republicans are in the way. >> i see no way really. i would be shocked if this bill passes and if anything comes to fruition. you look at what steve scalise tweeted out immediately, "this

bill is going to allow 5,000 more illegal immigrants in a year." also, he was, you know, the automatic work permits, republicans are going to, you know, raise hell about that, too. anything they can do to say, like, oh, this bill is just going to let in more illegal immigrants and it wasn't stopping anything, that'll be their simplistic message, way oversimplifying what is a sweeping bill and should happen, you know, for the sake of national security. less an immigration and the national security threats that are coming through that border. i think republicans are really going to seize on, they can say, no, no, no, it is allowing more people in, and then nothing will happen. >> wow. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin. julie, you have been covering every detail of that. what comes next? >> here's the reality, republicans are perhaps

deliberately mischaracterizing what this bill does and doesn't do. when you talk about that 5,000 a day number, this is something we fact-checked even before the bill text came out. again, it is impossible for this bill to prevent migrants from coming to the border illegally. all they can do in the beginning is try to put in mechanisms to discourage that from happening. that's point number one that is completely mischaracterized. point two, you talk about work requirements, for example. this bill would deny work permits for anybody that comes to the border between ports of entry, only allowing that provision allowing that right to people who come legally to ports of entry and initially pass their asylum screening. so those two things are being heavily misconstrued by republicans. they're some of the things langford said he'll try to clear up. let's also talk about what this bill doesn't do. it does not provide any pathway to citizenship for undocumented dreamers. a few months ago, if you had told democrats that they were

going to accept a bill that had all of these conservative priorities in it, without that pathway, that would be a complete pipe dream. here, you have democrats and republicans who are agreeing on this pathway forward, and then you have extremists, in the words of senator sinema, there are some trying to put an end of the lies going on about this bill, who are allowing this to go through to allow the aid to ukraine and israel to go through. bottom line here, jonathan is exactly right when he is talking about the uphill battle this faces in the senate before even getting to the house. it'll be interesting to see once the senate returns tonight, early to process the bill, whether langford can have any luck in terms of moving his republican colleagues closer in his direction here. if it doesn't happen this week, i mean, there's going to be real talk of completely splitting off the border aid.

mcconnell already alluded to this the other week. he said, "if this doesn't go through, ukraine aid and israel aid has to move regardless." it'll be interesting if there is a broad bipartisan coalition trying to make that happen instead. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. joining us now, former supreme allied naval admiral james stavridis. chief analyst for nbc news. former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, jeremy bash is with us, as well. >> admiral, we'll move the border security issue to the side, though i've always been conserative on border security. i believe if you come to the united states, you should come here legally. i think our borders need to be controlled. we have a chance to do it. mike johnson doesn't want to do it because donald trump doesn't want to do it. let's talk about what's happening overseas and what mike

johnson, who has voted pro-putin on every single ukraine aid bill since he's been in congress, let's talk about ukraine. if this funding is killed again, how dire is the situation? sadly, i hate to be asking this, but what message does it send to our friends, and i think more importantly, our enemies alike? >> yeah, let's actually start with border as follows. the border, solving it is a national security issue in terms not only of controlling our border, which we need to do, but also because these other aid packages are linked to it. it's ukraine. it's taiwan. it's israel. all of them are part of this package. if that crumbles in front of us, the consequences will be significant in each of those venues. now, let's shift to the middle east and israeli aid alongside

the ukrainian aid. of the two, israel is fighting a smaller war in a dominant position. they will continue on, but they need the aid that is part of this package. but where it gets dire, your word and it is an accurate one, joe, is ukraine. we are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of the ammunition, the replacement tanks, the additional armored personnel carriers, the radar components, the anti-air systems, all of that is on the red line right now. fortunately, our european colleagues are stepping up and can provide some of that, but this is the moment for the united states to continue what we have done successfully thus far, and put a steak in the heart of vladimir putin.

if we cut off the aid now because of our internal domestic challenges, woe be to our ukrainian colleagues and our reputation globally. >> think about it, the message that mike johnson and the house republicans are sending to putin. yes, they're saying, america will capitulate. we won't stand by our allies. we'll leave them hanging in their most dire moments. the israelis, yes, we're -- actually, we're more interested in helping donald trump than helping you. hamas will take great, great heart by the fact that we're not funding the israelis. then mike johnson is stopping the funding for our friends in asia. what signal does that send to communist china? oh, president xi is loving it. all the people that donald trump says he loves and he respects, president xi, he's very happy

right now because of mike johnson. donald trump says hezbollah is brilliant. they're really happy right now because donald trump and mike johnson and, you know, then vladimir putin. all the people he says he loves, mike johnson is doing their bidding right now. and for fentanyl drug runners, they've got to love mike johnson, too. they probably have a picture of him up, you know, in their warehouse. >> everything about mike johnson's behavior points to trump and points to trump's relationship with the situation, whether it be wanting to cozy up with vladimir putin or wanting things to go badly in this country now so he can come in and be president again. jeremy bash, voters may not be as clued in to what's going on in ukraine and israel, given kitchen table issues that are right in front of them, trying to just get to work and take care of the kids. at the same time, does the white

house need to do more in order to get support for these wars and control or contain the narrative more as it pertains to the truth? i mean, the future of our democracy depends on this election, you could argue, but it also depends on our partners being stable. >> mika, i think the president was highly effective when he gave the oval office address after returning from his middle east trip. to say, look, we're going to be proposing to congress support of democracy. democracy globally is under fire. it's under threat. it's under strain. if we want to stand up for the principle of supporting our interests, our friends, and our values, our democratic values, we have to be able to arm, train, and equip the ukrainians. we have to be able to fund air defenses and military capabilities for israel. we have to provide weapons and capabilities to taiwan which is under threat from china, as just referenced. so i think the president has done an effective job, but more

can be done to articulate the imperative of the u.s. global leadership at this very perilous moment. >> it's just unbelievable. they're putting politics in front of national security. >> everything. >> politics in front of our allies. >> at the border. >> politics in front of territorial integrity. all the things republicans once claimed they care for, now mike johnson and donald trump, together, are doing everything they can to undermine what conseratives have always supported. >> yeah. >> and they're undermining national security for pure politics, and they admit it. >> for putin. when we come back in one minute, the united states begins carrying out air strikes in retaliation for the drone attack in jordan that killed three u.s. service members. we'll have those new developments and what happens next. also ahead, despite an impressive january jobs report, president biden is still down 20 points when it comes to the economy. we're digging into new nbc news polling. we'll also show you more of

nikki haley's new, ramped up attacks against donald trump. we're back in 60 seconds. ck in s (man) what if all i do for my type 2 diabetes isn't enough? or what if... (vo) once-weekly mounjaro could help. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar and can help you eat less food. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people lost up to 25 pounds. mounjaro is not for people with type 1 diabetes or children. don't take mounjaro if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop mounjaro and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, vision changes, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. taking mounjaro with sulfonylurea or insulin raises low blood sugar risk. tell your doctor if you're nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. side effects include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, which can cause dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. (man) i can do diabetes differently with mounjaro.

(vo) ask your doctor about once-weekly mounjaro. 19 past the hour. the united states on friday carries out retaliatory air strikes targeting sites used by iran-backed militias in iraq and syria. nbc news has been able to verify the locations of five of those sites. u.s. central command said the attack involved more than 125 precise munitions, including some fired from long range b1 bombers. the barrage of strikes hit more than 85 targets in seven locations. it came in response to the drone attack last month in jordan that killed three american soldiers and wounded dozens more. in a statement, president biden said the round of strikes would not be the last. iran called the strikes a strategic mistake, saying they

will, quote, have no result other than intensifying tensions and instability in the region. meanwhile, the u.s. continues to launch attacks against the houthis in yemen. on saturday, the u.s. and uk struck 36 targets across 13 different locations. in a joint statement, the country said the strikes hit buried weapons storage facilities and missile systems the houthis have used to attack ships in the red sea. this was the third time the u.s. and uk have launched joint strikes against the terrorist group. yesterday, american forces announced they hit five anti-ship cruise missiles in two different attacks. the pentagon says four of the missiles were prepared to launch against ships in the red sea. >> we've gotten used to the missiles being fired in the middle of deserts, and americans get skeptical after a while that

they're fired to send a message. no real damage here. these attacks are far beyond what we've seen in the past. describe the strategic impact of the strikes. >> i'll be happy to. i've fired a number of tomahawk missiles from these destroyers in these circumstances. two elements here, joe. one is the deterrence piece of this, creating in the minds of the houthis and the radical groups in iraq and syria, iranian proxies, a sense of fear that more is coming. then, importantly here, this round of strikes has been also directed against iranian personnel, the iranian revolutionary guard. you've got kind of the deterrence piece of this. gosh, there's probably more where this came from. secondly, the tactical piece of this, actually destroying capability. here, in particular, the series

of strikes in the red sea area are very, very direct against missiles, radars, buried ammunition, command and control. these are taking away real capability in the red sea and, likewise, in the training camps that are supporting these shia militias. i would argue, and i think any military expert would tell you, you're creating both a strategic deterrent that's hard to measure and assess, but we'll watch for reactions. but i know we are creating real tactical effect by destroying capability. this is the beginning of a campaign, and it's a smart one. >> jeremy, we certainly heard from a number of voices over the weekend, mostly republicans, criticizing the attacks, suggesting the administration waited too long, they were overly telegraphed, what they were going to do. they didn't make much of a difference. weigh in on that. also, senior administration

officials tell me that a strike within iran is highly, highly unlikely. we heard from jake sullivan over the weekend on "meet the press." he is refusing to take anything off the table, but it's not being actively considered. with that as a given, president biden has said more is coming. what do you think it is? >> yeah, look, first on the timing, i think these operations are complex and challenging. they require setting the theater, making sure our force posture is appropriate, making sure our allies and partners know of the plans, and making sure the air rights and air spaces are cleared so we can operate with heavy platforms, including b1 bombers flying all the way from texas. this is a complex military operation against seven targets. i think a couple days to plan it out and to execute it, i think the proof is in the pudding. they were professionally executed, and they had good effect. look, are more coming? i do think more are coming. jake sullivan said so yesterday during his interviews. the bottom line is, jim stavridis is exactly right,

whether we deter the mercurial mind of an iranian leader cannot happen overnight. we have to show the iranians that not only do we have the capacity to hit more targets but we have the will. that's why it is so important that we said there's more to come and we maintain a robust force posture. what's going on in the region? iran is trying to disrupt the three-way peace deal between israel, saudi arabia, and the united states. we were on the cusp of having an agreement, historic agreement. the peace to end all peace, to use a historic reference. really a way to have arab-israeli reconciliation on a scale not seen probably since the camp david accords. iran said that is an anathema to our interests and unleashed hamas, hezbollah, the houthis, proxies in iraq and syria, and it'll go on for a while until the iranians get the message. >> admiral, it is a little confusing here, what is actually the strategy and what is the end goal of these strikes. it seems as if though they're

just strikes to do strikes without any real purpose. you see, you iraqis are killed, syrians are killed. no iranians have been killed. what do you get the sense, what is the overall, grand strategy here of the biden administration in the middle east, other than these one-off strikes when we're targeted? >> yeah, let's start with jeremy's excellent comment a moment ago. part of this, kind of going from the inside out here, is to create the conditions that move us toward a growing diplomatic relation between the kingdom of saudi arabia and israel. when we bring our friends together, we emerge stronger. to do that, you have to knock back the iranians who are determined to cause us to withdraw. moving out a little bit, this is also part of an alliance

strategy, elise. today, we have, i think, at least 15 nations who have signed onto operation prosperity guardian, which is the red sea and keeping the global economy open. that's a significant part of this strategy here. then, thirdly, as we look at capability as we talked about a moment ago, every time with these strikes you take away capability, you are reducing the possibility of further attacks. i think this is actually a well planned and escalaing strategy that is moving up that ladder. ultimately, are we going to have to send jets over downtown tehran? let's hope not. if we want to avoid that, the way to do that is to continue to move up on this ladder of escalation. i think the administration's got it about right. >> retired four star admiral

james stavridis, and nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash, thank you both very much for joining us this morning. coming up, we'll have updates on legal cases connected to donald trump. multiple, from his civil fraud trial to the effort in california to keep him off the 2024 ballot.igaor and msnbc legl analyst lisa rubin will be here to break it all down for us. "morning joe" will be right back.

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in the past six months, the super pacs behind donald trump spent $50 million on trump's legal fees.

that's with the cheapest, worst lawyers on the planet. can you imagine spending $50 million on the people who just lost you $83 million? >> the supreme court is scheduled to hear arguments this week in the appeal of the colorado high court's decision that former president trump is ineligible to run for president because the january 6th insurrection. the court cited the constitution's 14th amendment that bars anyone who took an oath as an officer of the united states and then engaged in insurrection from ever holding office again. the supreme court's decision is likely to be the most consequential ruling since bush v gore more than two decades ago. also this week, the final verdict in former president trump's new york civil business fraud trial could come. the decision had originally been scheduled for release at the end of last month, but the judge

delayed the ruling. the judge presiding in the case already ruled the trump organization has committed fraud. the verdict will determine penalties and resolve other claims of wrongdoing from the case. joining us now is former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. let's start there. what is causing the delay? i understand there was a letter from the judge that's a monitor in charge of trump's businesses, and there's a whole bunch of incomplete information that that judge is dealing with. how does that impact the decision judge engoron has to make? >> retired judge barbara jones is the monitor in the case, and we're not sure if it is impacting judge engoron's decision and timing. it's a letter that points to improprieties and trump's financial statements. one of the things that it points to, and maybe the thing that's most troubling about it, is for

years, it's been understood that one of the business entities in the trump organization loaned former president trump personally $48 million. according to judge jones in a footnote in the letter, she could never find, no matter how many times she asked, documentation of that loan and was later told, essentially, that the loan didn't exist. the trump organization lawyers, they refute that. they say the loan did exist, and what we did was give judge jones an intra-company memo, telling her that debt had been extinguished. i looked at that memo from december 2023. it is a memo to the file, so nobody even had the guts to sign it, essentially. it just says that the debt has been extinguished. there is still, to this day, no documentation that the loan existed. you might be thinking to yourself, what's the big deal about that? the big deal is if that loan did not exist and it was, instead, a gift, there would be massive tax consequences to that, as well as

some improprieties in the financial reporting that went to trump's financial institutions and insurance companies. in essence, a continuation of that same fraud that's been going on for years and has been showing up in his financial disclosures. as a candidate, you'll remember that, as president, for example, donald trump filed these presidential disclosures where we could see all of his finances. he is required to do it as a candidate, as well, and the loan showed up in his most recent disclosure as of april 2023. as, you know, they'd say on "i love lucy," someone has some explaining to do. >> if the monitor has uncovered questions of more fraud, to put it carefully, okay, so that's one thing, but doesn't that also just play right into donald trump's constant narrative in any of these cases, which is delay, delay, delay?

what happens to the timing of the decision as they're trying to figure this loan out or whatever it was? >> i don't think it'll have much of an impact on the decision. you'll remember, judge engoron promised he'd try to have a decision by january 31st. last week, the office of court administration released a statement saying we should now expect that decision by early to mid-february. i think it maybe pushes it out a week as the judge adds this to the pile of evidence that he once said could fill an entire room of the trump organization and donald trump's own fraud. we're not talking about weeks, pleural, or even months. >> lisa, as noted, this is a big week. the colorado case coming before the supreme court, as mika said, perhaps the most consequential electoral matter its heard since 2000. walk us through what you expect us to hear. what will the outcome here be? >> i think the -- let's start with the outcome. i think the outcome is going to be that the court does not disqualify donald trump from

being on presidential primary ballots. how it gets there, of course, john, is another story. one of the things that i expect that we'll hear at oral argument, and one of the things that puts a chill into me personally as a lawyer, is something that donald trump's team put on the very last pages of theirf. it's been long presumed that when a state supreme court makes a factual finding, the united states supreme court is supposed to defer to that. it really can't mess with the factual findings of a state supreme court. however, jonathan mitchell, donald trump's lawyer here, essentially says, there is no reason for the court to give any deference to that, and they should disturb the factual findings and revisit the question of whether trump participated in an insurrection at all. in this case, that would have big consequences, but overall, in terms of supreme court jurisprudence, it would have huge consequences. if a state supreme court is no longer the final arbiter of its own facts and law, you can see how that would topple basically

the system of state to federal appeals as we currently understand it. >> all right. finally, this for you, lisa. fulton county district attorney fani willis is acknowledging for the first time having a personal relationship with special prosecutor nathan wade. the revelation came on friday in a 176-page filing. in it, willis' team argued the relationship did not result in any, quote, disqualifying conflict of interest. election interference co-defendant michael roman, who first made the allegation of an improper relationship, is attempting to use it to have his charges dismissed. former president trump has joined that effort. there is an evidentiary hearing on the allegations scheduled for next week. lisa, what do you make of all of this? >> in a word, it's tawdry, and i don't think it really has much impact on whether fani willis should be disqualified.

at the end of the day, the things here that are troubling, and i want to be clear with our viewers, there are some things here about this that are troubling to me. in particular, the fact that nathan wade doesn't really have a background in rico law. on the other hand, if you take fani willis at her word, that no relationship developed between the two of them until after his appointment, and you take her at her word that these are two financially independent people who, in the course of one of their divorces, ended up in a relationship with one another, there really is no there-there. it is just a distraction that is needlessly consuming time. as you noted earlier, the name of the game with donald trump always in litigation is delay, delay, delay. >> i mean, obviously, you brought it up, it begs the question, why in the world, in a complex rico case, the most important that not only she would ever try but that probably any state would ever try against a politician, she would appoint

somebody who has no experience in rico law. >> well, joe, let me play devil's advocate with you for a second. there are two other special prosecutors here, one of whom, john floyd, is very experienced in rico law and was appointed specifically for that reason. fani willis would say that she appointed nathan wade here because she knew him to be an effective leader of teams. he is effectively the quarterback of this team, coordinating all other resources and generally serving as sort of the strategic captain here. if that's the case, that makes more sense. but, again, there are some judgment calls here that are probably not the best, not making everybody here smell good. the optics are bad, even if, legally, they're on solid ground. >> former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, we'll see you many times this week. thank you for starting us off this morning. >> thanks, mika. coming up, despite a growing economy and little opposition

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in some great economic news for president biden, u.s. oil production hit an all-time high this week, and the economy added a surprisingly robust 350,000 jobs. or as fox news reported it, are migrants turning your kids trans? >> actually, fox news did have a number of positive reactions to friday's jobs reports. here's larry kudlow, a top white house economic adviser under former president donald trump.

>> i know many of my conservative friends are trying to drill holes in this report. but you know what, folks? it is what it is. it's a very strong report. not every economic stat should be viewed through a political lens. i've been in this business a very long time, and sometimes you just have to throw away the ballot box and just recognize the numbers. they are what they are. this was a very strong report. >> there you go. >> friday's numbers showed the u.s. economy added 353,000 jobs last month. economists had predicted gains around 185,000. that's a lot more than expected. despite continued strong economic data, new polling from nbc news shows 36% of registered voters approve of how president joe biden has handled the economy. when asked who they would trust

more to handle the economy, 55% said donald trump compared to 33% who said biden. >> jonathan lemire, the numbers are stark despite the good numbers in the economy. let's keep that one up, 55% to 33%. what's the biden white house's explanation? what are they going to do about it? >> i was speaking to senior aides the end of last week about this matter, and they're still confident they can turn this narrative around. they point to the strong jobs report, other metrics. most importantly, they feel, consumer sentiment. they feel like people are feeling better about the economy, and that translates, usually, into votes for the incumbent, the president overseeing that strong economy. at least for now, there is a disconnect between american who is now are starting to think better about things economically, but they're not

giving the white house credit. that's about messaging and salesmanship. that's certainly something this white house is going to do. some aides say to me they feel like, inherently, americans will vote for the incumbent even if they're not in love with thatcoy stable. we heard from jerome powell suggesting rate cuts are still coming. they may be delayed somewhat because of, frankly, the strong jobs number and other measures, but there's still probably three cuts this year, which would boost the economy, as well. that could be well-timed for this president as he heads into re-election, which, so often, economic referendums on the economy. >> well, elise, you look at the numbers, obviously a lot of democrats panicking as democrats do. we're in the beginning of february, a long way to go. joe biden's numbers are very low. these are -- and this is -- you know, there was an ft article on this last week, i think, that we

talked about. donald trump could win. who knows? maybe he wins in a landslide. not saying he's not. i am saying, though, that if you look at numbers across the west, you see leaders that have low approval ratings. you saw emmanuel macron when he was going into re-election with approval ratings in the low to mid 30s. he ended up with 58% of the vote. i just think staring at approval ratings and panicking about february polls, that's just time wasted. >> no, and so much can happen from now until november. >> that's the part to worry about. >> you look at what really matters more than anything. are prices going to go down? not just inflation, you know, gradually trending down, but are prices going to go down? i think that's what's really hurting joe biden right now. unlike the stock market, every american is impacted by rising prices. to be going out there and have your message be bidenomics and that everything is fine and

dandy, it's not the way that they should be messaging this. we feel your pain. we know it's been a tough time, but things are trending in the right direction. the fundament tams are good. it's getting better. i just think that it's come across, the biden administration's messaging has come across as tone deaf on the economy. there needs to be a little shift of acknowledging that americans have been really hurting. >> let's bring in right now the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. i want to talk about a couple wars raging right now. it's distracting for people. you brought it up the other day on our show. you have people saying, hey, listen, i support the president, but we're spending a lot of money overseas. i look at the news. there's a lot of news about what's going on overseas. i want people to help me here at home. you're hearing that. i'm just wondering, how much, despite a strong economy, how

much are these wars distracting from what the president is doing? >> i think a lot of it is distracting. when people look at the fact that you see the economy may be syncing up but prices are not going down, and people are still kind of trying to make end's meet, and then they see these billions of dollars going abroad, even for legitimate reasons, they say, but what about me? why are we spending all of this money, whether it's in ukraine, whether it's in the middle east, whether it's wherever? i feel like i'm a second thought. i think the politics of that is reflected by these startling polls for the biden camp this weekend. people feel neglected. it's not that people disagree that we should be on the right side of international conflicts,

but people want to feel like, wait a minute, i'm a priority. >> i think president biden is actually a very good sort of teacher on this front about not just the respect for democracy here at home, rev, but for stability in the world. you know, for promoting democracy around the world. i wonder, does the white house need to focus on the explaining part? we were talking to jeremy bash about this earlier. as much as our participation in israel and ukraine is definitely draining resources and time, that it is vital to stability of the world and ultimately america as a superpower, rev. >> i think that they must make the connection so that people understand that we're not just in ukraine or in the middle east as charity, that it is directly connected. the way that we protect you at home and the way that we enhance you at home is by covering our flanks abroad.

i don't think there's been an effective communication of the connection of why we're spending money. it's not spending money on others. it's spending money to protect and consolidate democracy everywhere, which keeps china and putin at bay. as long as people don't see the connection to my house, they're going to feel neglected. you've got to convince people, i have to save the neighborhood to save your house. >> i've got to say right now, though, elise, and i'm not questioning the importance of what the united states is doing overseas. you have -- now, i hope i got this right. i got your legal degree wrong, but i think you have a bit of a libertarian streak in you, is that correct? >> that is indeed correct. >> so you're a perfect person to lead this to. i grew up in a family of cold

warriors. i'm less libertarian on this front, but in congress, people would say, we need to do this. i'd always stop and say, hey, we can fight a one-front war. it's all we can fight. don't ask me to fight two, three-front wars. we can afford right now chaos in one area, contain that chaos, and then we can worry about these other things. right now, for the average voter, it's a lot to see israel in gaza every day. that doesn't mean the hamas attacks weren't heinous and hamas must be destroyed. they must be destroyed. i get that. ukraine, we've been here nonstop in support of ukraine. i will tell you, general milley said, though, a year ago, a year ago, those lines are frozen in place. he couldn't say it on air, but he said, those lines are frozen in place. we can keep giving them stuff, but the lines are -- >> and extend the killing. >> yeah. do we want to keep those lines frozen in place for, what, how

many more years, one, two, four, five? bring this up to say to the libertarian and many americans on foreign policy, there is a lot in the end box right now, right? you have inflation. you've got all these other issues. you've got crime. they're processing that. then you have israel in gaza on tv all the time. you have the ukraine war. you have china getting ready to move on taiwan. too many. too many fronts. too much chaos. >> right now -- >> go ahead. >> bombs are the u.s. greatest export. you hear from hawkish congressional members, oh, it is fueling jobs growth and arms factories in the u.s. that argument makes me a little sick and turns my stomach. right now, we don't have a coherent, grand strategy of why we are fighting in the middle east, why we still have bases in jordan where three georgia national guardsman and women are killed, why we are fighting this

proxy war with iran but, really, in three other countries, not exactly with iran. and then what is our strategy we're giving israel? we provide 15% of their defense budget in a normal year, yet we're using none of that leverage with what's happening in gaza with the slaughter of children and innocents? i'm all for -- i think israel deserved to have a robust response to kill hamas, but when it is beyond the laws of proportionality, we need to question ourselves as a nation and what values we are supporting around the world. >> well, and we really, as it comes to israel, we're always going to be supportive of israel. the question is, though, do we continue to support benjamin netanyahu's policies, mika? >> exactly. >> again, they continue to go against what president biden, tony blinken, america's national security, our allies, everybody -- >> people in israel. >> he's sitting there with, what, 20% approval rating?

he knew about this attack a year beforehand and did nothing about it. he knew about hamas' funding sources in 2018, along with donald trump. they did nothing about it. they told qatar, netanyahu's administration, to give hamas more money weeks before the october 7th attack. they did nothing for seven, eight, ten hours to actually protect jews that were getting raped, slaughtered, burned. you know, it's time for joe biden to move away from benjamin netanyahu. it's time to do it publicly. >> right. >> you know, this is pretty devastating. netanyahu doesn't care about israel's democracy and doesn't know how to keep them secure, mika. >> we're going to continue this conversation. also coming up, the senate unveils its sweeping bipartisan bill for border security and foreign aid. we'll talk to the lead negotiator for the democrats, senator chris murphy. and majority leader chuck

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president biden won the south carolina primary, barely edging out his closest rival, time. >> welcome back. >> okay. >> welcome back to "morning joe." monday, february 5th. jonathan lemire, elise jordan, and reverend al sharpton are still with us. joining the conversation, we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius is with us. good to have you all on board this hour. >> david, why don't you give us your assessment? i don't know if you got to hear any of what elise and i were talking about before the break, but just a question that a lot of americans may have. look at the poll numbers, the economy, strong numbers despite

the opinion. everything is overrun by foreign policy crises. i'm curious if there is a feeling at the white house, you know, we can only handle so many fronts in this war. >> joe, i'm sure people feel overwhelmed. this is a period of unusual international difficulty. the idea the united states can back away from that seems to me to misunderstand the way the world works. we're helping people fight their own wars. there's a huge difference between what's happening now and what people understandably remember with great frustration a decade or so ago, when we had u.s. troops getting wounded and killed in wars that didn't seem to add up to anything in iraq and afghanistan. this is not the same. israel is a long-time ally. we're trying to help israel fight against a savage attack by hamas. but we're also trying to make peace. secretary blinken took off today

on a another trip to the middle east that will start in saudi arabia. he'll try to arrange a saudi offer to normalize relations with israel. big deal in terms of the way the world works. then he'll stop in israel and try to push, i'll say force, prime minister netanyahu to accept the deal. meanwhile, attacks by iranian proxies on our forces in iraq and syria, which we didn't answer in an aggressive way for a long time, we're pushing back. and attacks by houthi rebels on international shipping that has driven up the cost of everything. we worry about inflation. well, these houthi missiles have not been good for the price of goods shipped by sea. every day, you see attacks by the u.s., and they typically come at night. we can see in the dark, pow. out goes three houthi launchers. we had 35 attacks on saturday

against the houthis in yemen. 86 attacks the previous day against people messing with our forces in iraq and syria. yeah, we're pushing back. these are not like the wars that people remember. i hope they don't make that confusion. to your basic point, joe, would they like to have a lighter inbox? i'm sure they would. handling the inbox they've got pretty well? yeah, i've been watching this stuff a long time, and they're trying to use power sensibly. they're not overreacting and trying to go to war with iran, but they're protecting u.s. interests. we know what is in the border security deal addressing foreign aid. the $118 billion package calls for over $20 billion in border security measures that include hiring new asylum officers and

border security agents, expanding the number of detention beds, and increasing screenings for fentanyl and other drugs. the bill would end the practice of catch and release and raise the standard of asylum, which would send those away who do not qualify more quickly, while expediting the process for cases that do. the legislation grants a new emergency authority to the white house and homeland security department to close the borders once encounters reach a certain threshold. >> following up exactly on what david was talking about, in terms of foreign aid, $60 billion would be allotted to ukraine. $14 billion for israel's defense. $10 billion for humanitarian assistance to civilians in gaza and the west bank. >> however, house republican leaders say they won't even bring the bill up for a vote, with speaker mike johnson -- >> so sad. >> -- saying, quote -- >> this is just -- >> -- it's even worse than

expected -- i'm sorry, what don't you like? >> he continues to lie. as liz cheney said. he basically admitted he was going around spreading a lie about january 6th, trying to get people to sign onto a letter that would continue the lie and help ken paxton spread the lie in texas. he lied about that. he is lying about this. he knows. james langford said, i wish they'd all read the bill. >> right. >> i wish they would understand how strong the bill is. the sad thing is, and it is pathetic, and we say things can be two things at once. i mean, the new speaker is both dangerous and pathetic. dangerous because he has decided, and he said it publicly, we're going to put politics over stopping fentanyl from coming into the united states. we're going to put politics above allowing our border security to stop terrorists from

coming into the united states. we're going to keep the border chaotic for at least another ten months because we want things to be as chaotic as possible for joe biden. it's just like donald trump saying -- >> to make him look good. >> -- he wants the economy to crash, there to be a great depression, and wants biden to be herbert hoover. they don't give a damn about border security. they're willing to play into putin's hand, for mike johnson that's nothing new, willing to play into putin's hands time and time again. willing to play into president xi's hand on china, which, of course, is exactly what donald trump wants. and then you look at israel, won't fund israel. won't fund the relief of citizens in gaza. again, this is all -- all of these things that are imporing donald trump told a grown-up man, "don't do that." and he just crumbles. >> joining us now, one of the

leaders for the legislation, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, a member of the foreign relations committee. senator, i guess, first of all, is this bill losing support on the senate side? >> no, i this bill can and will pass the united states senate. listen, i take republicans at their word last fall when we tried to pass legislation through the senate that would fund ukraine, that would stop vladimir putin from winning this war, republicans said, we won't support it unless you come to a bipartisan deal to try to better control the border. i was skeptical of our ability to do that because it's been 40 years since we passed bipartisan immigration or border reform, but we worked for the last four months, myself, senator langford, a conservative republican, senator sinema, and we achieved the bipartisan compromise. it is a compromise. it does the things you say. it reforms a very broken asylum system so it won't take ten years to process an asylum claim. people will get certainty.

either let into the country or removed from the county within months. it gives the president this new emergency authority to shut down most of the border when crossings get too high. it also increases legal immigration so people can come here to reunite with their family or work for a period of time. i just believe that there are enough republicans in the senate who are sincere about solving the problem, opposed to those who want chaos at the border because donald trump thinks it is a good election issue, that we can get this passed. we'll see. we'll have a vote in the next two to three days to get onto the bill, and that will tell us whether we still have the support we need or whether donald trump has prevailed here. >> senator murphy, good morning. thank you for that fact-check for what is actually in the bill. the text now finally out. we know plenty didn't wait to actually read it to pre-judge it. you just at the end there hinted at the politics of this. we know donald trump opposes it. we know there are some of your colleagues in the senate who seem willing to follow his lead. the bigger issue is the house

where the speaker has really come out against it and basically said this bill is dead on arrival. let's get your response to that. even if you get this through the senate, it is not going anywhere. then what? >> well, i think speaker johnson wants to kill this bill in the senate because he knows there will be enormous pressure on him to call up this bill for a vote in the house. if it passes the senate with a big bipartisan vote, and i think there is a very good chance it will, then there will be the votes to pass this in the house of representatives. if he is not willing to bring this exact bill up, there will be pressure from his colleagues in the house who support ukraine funding to come up with an alternative. speaker johnson would sort of love to let this issue lie. he'd love for there to continue to be chaos at the border so that donald trump has a political advantage. he'd love to avoid the question of ukraine because it splits his caucus. he will not be able to avoid that debate if the senate does its job. that's what we're going to do this week.

we are going to take this landmark, bipartisan border reform and ukraine funding bill. we are going to get it onto the senate floor. we are hopefully going to convince enough republicans to do the right thing and deal with a big, messy issue like the border in a bipartisan way. once it gets to the house, i think we have a much better chance that we can ultimately find resolution there. we have no hope if this bill dies in the senate. we have no hope of trying to convince the house to support ukraine and fix our border if donald trump convinces enough republican senators to maintain chaos at the border. i hope and i trust right now that that won't happen. >> senator murphy, david ignatius in washington. congratulations on getting this bipartisan deal set in the senate. if it ends up getting turned down in the house and being seemingly stopped in its tracks, to you think president biden should just try to take this issue away from the republicans who seem to be playing politics with it and use every bit of his

executive authority to address the border crisis on his own? say basically, won't pass the legislation? okay, i'll do it myself. would that be a good strategy for him? >> well, here's the problem, david. the president can't do this by himself. the president doesn't have the legal authority, without additional legislation, to control the border and fix the broken asylum system in the way that needs to be done. and this is part of the fiction that gets perpetuated on the american public by republicans. they wanted to pass border ledge slags last year. they named it hr-2, the second bill they introduced. as soon as it became clear that bipartisan border reform legislation might pass, republicans in the house screamed, no, the president doesn't need new laws. he has all the authority he needs. that's just not true. we know that because donald trump couldn't do a much better job of controlling the border. presentations were at a ten-year high before covid.

we also know that without legislative reform to the asylum system, without an infusion of resources to clear the backlog, it'll still take ten years to process an asylum claim. we need legislation. republicans know we need legislation. many of them are trying to stop this legislation because they know the president can't fix it on his own and they know that the border will still be chaotic without us passing a bill. >> senator murphy, al sharpton. what is being done to get the public to really rise up in various states to say to their senators that they want to see the borders -- the border issue resolved? i mean, you're getting migrants beating up policemen in the streets of new york. you're seeing an influx of migrants all over the country that, frankly, have people outraged. couldn't there be some kind of public pressure put in the next couple days in some of these

senators' states saying, why are you allowing this to continue? at the end of the day, senators have to deal with their voters. at the same time, in the bill you give money to gaza, to civilians in gaza and israel. but the border, i mean, we're looking every day at the invasion of migrants, and they're playing a time game with politics on this? couldn't the pressure put to bear in their home states? >> listen, the vast middle of america believes two things. one, they're proud of this nation's history of immigration. they still want people to come to this country if they are legitimately fleeing violence, terror, or torture. but they also believe that's got to be done in a rules-based order. they see chaos. they see a border that is out of control. so they want politicians to stop playing politics with this issue. they want their leaders in washington to come together and try to find a solution.

that's what we've done here. somewhat implausibly. yes, i think there's going to be enormous pressure on members to just make a decision. do you want the issue of immigration to be a perpetual, political cajole, just fodder for campaign ads, or do you want to actually solve a problem? to your more specific point, we do see migrants right now living on the streets, crowding our homeless shelters. well, this bill specifically addresses that crisis. it also gives more immediate work authorizations to immigrants who come to this country and who are legitimately likely to win their case for asylum. this bill is very thoughtful and targeted in the ways that it cleans up a very broken border system, but also helps our cities and our governors and our mayors deal with the consequences of that broken system. >> senator murphy, this is an excellent attempt to deal with the crisis that everyone has punted for decades and decades and decades for political

expediency. even if this bill could get past the house, would it get 60 votes in the senate? >> i hope and i plan for it to get 60 votes in the senate. as i said at the outset, remember, it was republicans in the senate last fall that told us, if you want our vote for ukraine aid, you have to find a bipartisan border solution. they appointed a very conservative colleague of theirs, james langford, to sit with myself and senator sinema to come up with a compromise. we came up with a compromise. it is a hard one compromise. do i think that 50 republicans in the senate are going to vote for this? no. there are going to be a lot of actors that are going to listen to donald trump in the senate and keep chaos at the border, but i do think there are 25 republican senators that are very carefully considering this legislation. i think enough of them will support it to get to 60 votes. mind you, not every democrat is going to support this bill.

this is a true compromise, kind of in the sort of throwback way. >> right. >> there's going to be some democrats that will vote no because they think it is too hard. there are going to be a lot of republicans who are going to listen to donald trump and vote no because it doesn't go far enough. that's how washington used to work, and i think it is how most people in this country want the place to work. >> senator murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> at the top of the next hour, we'll speak with majority leader chuck schumer. ahead this hour, our next guest says democrats don't need to sweat over a no labels election challenge this november. instead, there's something else that could cost joe biden votes. "politico's" jonathan martin joins us next to explain. plus, we'll look at nikki haley's huge fundraising haul last month as she ramps up attacks on donald trump. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 21 past the hour. republican presidential candidate nikki haley ramped up her attacks against former president donald trump yesterday. she brought up the impact of his ongoing legal cases and criticized his recent attempts to kill the border bill being debated in congress. >> nobody should be playing politics with the border. first of all, he shouldn't be getting involved, telling republicans to wait until the election because we don't want this to help biden win. we can't wait one more day. look, he's got multiple court cases. i haven't necessarily kept up with them. i'm not a lawyer. i'm an accountant, so i don't know the legal ramifications. what i do know is one came down. he had a big verdict. more than that, we just saw that he, in his disclosures, his campaign disclosures, he just

paid 47 different law firms $50 million of campaign donations that came into his campaign. if you see that, and he hasn't even gotten started on all these cases, for the next year, he is going to be sitting in a courtroom. meanwhile, nbc news has learned january was the haley campaign's best fundraising month to date, bringing in $16.5 million. $11.7 million coming from grassroots and small dollar donations. incredible. joining us now from new orleans, senior political columnist for "politico," jonathan martin. his latest piece is, "forget no labels. biden's third-party peril is on the left." jonathan, you write in part this, "it's the left that presents the most acute peril to the president. few in the administration sense the danger more than vice president kamala harris. from holiday parties to a dinner at her residence last month for

a group of prominent black men, harris has been telling sympathetic democrats outside the white house that she recognizes the political challenge posed by biden's unwavering public support for israel. i'm told by officials familiar with her comments at the events. part of the president's challenge, particularly with younger democrats deriving their news almost entirely from social media, is they don't hear biden pushing netanyahu behind the scenes. there is a hate the sin, love the sinner element to biden's approach to israel that some in gen-z can't fully grasp. >> jonathan, you have most democrats fearing what is going to happen from no labels and independent candidates. would you say the danger comes from within joe biden's own party? >> well, or the far left folks that would otherwise be

democrats, joe, but are now radicalized. democrats have touched the stove twice in the last quarter century, right? they lost in 2000, of course, in part because of ralph nader on the left, and in '16 because of jill stein on the left. it is more an acute challenge now because you have a conflict in the middle east that is galvanizing and radicalizing younger voters and sort of leaving them to say, well, you know, the old line, joe, that you know so well, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. if younger voters believe that in october this year, that a vote for biden is indifferent from a vote for trump in the middle east, that's not going to get them off their couch. if it does, they're going to pull the lever for jill stein or cornell west or bobby kennedy. i think this is a numbers game, guys. this is a campaign that's going to be upon or lost at the margins. if biden loses 30,000 votes in

ann arbor, michigan, or madison, wisconsin, that's the election right there. >> jonathan, certainly, you spelled out effectively the problems from a third party candidate for progressive voters. what about voters of color, particularly black voters? this president has seen an erosion of support at times. you mentioned a cornell west. maybe it is rfk jr. what's the level of concern there, that it is not just a third party candidate that can draw away progressivs but also the democratic base, black voters? >> that is an enthusiasm challenge that is significant. the biden folks recognize they have to work on it. i think it's not totally separate from his challenges on the far left. talking to democrats last week for my column, one of the things that stuck out to me was black pastors starting to criticize biden on the middle east. one congressman told me a black pastor took him aside and said,

what's going on with this war in gaza? my parishioners are starting to bring this up. that's a black church. that's not, you know, the barista in madison, wisconsin. it's a real challenge, jonathan, that includes black voters, too. >> jonathan, al sharpton. when you talk about black churches and others that have raised the question, and that is clearly the case. i mean, i certainly came out strong when october -- i mean, when october 7th happened, but, clearly, i'm disturbed with netanyahu and disturbed with what's going on in gaza. >> yeah. >> the fact that you are raising this, though, do you think if the biden campaign made a clear distinction, i mean, without trying to have it both ways, that they're not supporting netanyahu and, in fact, deal with other issues, that this can deal with the enthusiasm

question? i think some of the far left will be far left, but i think that mainstream black vote that is now questioning, all of us are, are saying that there is no real straight forward language on what's going on here. >> well, here's the reluctance, reverend, on that. the biden folks are trying to get this moonshot deal in the middle east. i think to do that, you can't really come out against netanyahu because they're trying to get a deal with the israelis and the saudis in which there would be some path toward a two-state solution. you would also get a security deal between the u.s. and the saudis. the saudis would recognize israel as a state. i think if you're going to get that kind of deal, it is a longshot, obviously, you can't really cut ties with the current prime minister of israel during negotiations. but there's no question that there is immense pressure on biden to start at least subtly taking steps away from bibi. guys, you saw it last week.

it was a modest step with biden coming out with that order and leveling sanctions on a handful of settlers, you know, in the west bank. i was told by folks in the white house it was a step toward the sort of left-wing base of the party, of we're not just rolling over for bibi. >> you know, if you look at the numbers, david ignatius, i'm reminded on israel, on gaza, i'm reminded of abraham lincoln and his warning, that with public opinion, you can get anything accomplished. without it, you can get nothing accomplished. you look at joe biden's numbers on the handling of israel, in large part because younger voters have darted dra matt dramatically away from israel. it's hard to see, how does joe biden continue moving forward

with this support for israel the way he has over the past several months? >> joe, my feeling is that the president and his team really do need to sell this very ambitious policy that they've embarked on, which is an effort to make a broad, regional peace in the middle east, to the country. fire up the idealism of the younger voters that jonathan is talking about. this is a big effort. my friend, former u.s. ambassador to israel, describes biden's effort this way. he's either going to make netanyahu swallow the frog, meaning accept this peace deal for a palestinian state that we believe is part of regional security, or gag on the frog, meaning his government will fall. a new government that is more interested in trying to negotiate with us will come into power in israel. that is a big ambition. the president needs to convey it

to the country. i hope -- i put this to jonathan. if he did that more forcefully, would people listen to it? are people ready to hear that? what do you think? >> well, i actually mentioned that, dave, in my piece, the possibility of if there is this two-month cease-fire they're trying to negotiate right now over in paris, if that deal does get done, there is some talk about biden giving a public speech addressing people in the u.s. and the middle east about the importance of that longer-term framework you're talking about for a regional deal. and i think that biden would, in fact, do that. i think, obviously, they would try to get it out to younger voters and to try to make the case that biden is proactively trying to get peace in this region that you care about so much. i'm not sure that it'd reach the folks who are the most radicalized, but, obviously, it'd do some good for people at least on the fence. a big challenge here is that these voters are not consuming traditional media. >> right. >> i think the white house is

dealing with this. one of the issues is, do we get biden on tiktok? a lot of these gen-z voters, the kids if you will, are living on tiktok. that's where they're seeing all of these images come from. >> it's where they're getting their news. senior political columnist for "politico," jonathan martin. thank you very much. his new piece is online now. "the washington post"'s david ignatius, thank you, as well. his latest piece for the paper is entitled, "the u.s. tacks hard toward a mideast moment of truth." coming up, we'll dig deeper into the new nbc polling on a potential biden/trump rematch. steve kornacki will be at the big board for more on that. also ahead, a conversation on the extraordinary lives and legacy of civil rights icons medgar and myrlie. joy reese joins us to talk about her new book. we're back in a moment.

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15 minutes past midnight, evers got out of the car. in a vacant lot, a sniper fired a single shot from a high-powered rifle at his silhouette. it crashed through his body and into a window in the house. he died within an hour at a jackson hospital. >> wow. as we start the first full week of black history month, we celebrate the legacy of an often overlooked civil rights leader. in her newest book entitled "medgar and myrlie," the gov story that awakened america, joy reid delves into their lives. giving a fresh look at a couple whose work influenced millions who continue fighting for civil rights and includes interviews with family members and colleagues. joy joins us now. congratulations on the book. great to have you on "morning

joe." >> thank you so much, mika. >> i can't wait. tell us everything about this. what drew you to the project? what surprised you when you delved into the evers and his wife that you didn't know looking back into history? >> first, thank you for having me. it is great to see you. you know, what drew me to this project was myrlie evers williams. i interviewed her remotely, but in 2018, i was in l.a. doing my former show, my weekend show, and got a chance to meet her in person and interview her. she was just, first of all, so compelling. she's so regal and royal and so incredible. she's got this deep, resonant voice, fabulous and incredible. after the show, after the segment, i had a personal conversation with her. she started talking about medgar. i said, you sound like a teenage schoolgirl who just met this man.

he's been gone almost 60 years. she says to me in her deep, resonant voice, medgar was the love of my life. it just moved me so much. when i, you know, fast forward, i'm trying to tell my publisher what i was going to do my next book on, and i didn't want another trump book. i wanted to do something else. i came back to that conversation over and over again. i said to her at the time, ms. myrlie, that's the story. you need to tell the story. she said, darling, i've written so many books. i said, this is the story. you have to do it. i reached out to her, reached out to the family, and to see if they'd be open to her talking about this. she's written two incredible books. you know, she helped manning put together medgar's papers. she agreed to talk with me again. we spoke over half a dozen times, including once in california in person. this incredible, all day we spent with her. i just, you know, what drew me to the story was her and her love for this man. i wanted to write a love story

that also tells the fuller story of the civil rights movement. it wasn't just great men. they had families who supported them and created the space for them to do what they did. what surprised me most was how reluctant she was to do any of it. she really was a '50s housewife who wanted her man to be home and sell insurance. she was like, i'm going to marry an insurance salesman, and instead i got a civil rights leader. that was not her plan. she was talking about her reluctance. she knew what he was doing would get him killed in mississippi. she knew he wasn't going to live long. >> joy, i was around many times the last couple of decades. you write about the regal presence. it was royalty. two things. one is the role that dr. coretta

scott king said. dr. king wouldn't be the same without coretta. the same with malcolm. myrlie evers was the backbone and cold thinker of medgar. i went to the family's invitation for the 60th anniversary of his assassination in jackson. they kept the house the way it was when he was shot in the driveway coming home that night from doing voter registration. >> yeah. >> talk about the power of those women. also, something i think we miss in history is that medgar ever js s was killed in june of '63. >> that's right. >> that was part of the impetus that brought a lot of people to washington for the original march on washington in august. >> that's right. >> people don't understand that tragedy sometimes galvanized people. a lot of people went to

washington for the "i have a dream" speech because people were outraged about the assassination of medgar evers. talk about those things. >> this is another impetus for writing the book, i feel medgar evers has been lost to history as the important figure that he was. james baldwin said the great trio of civil rights was martin, malcolm, and medgar. he rode with medgar to the delta, and they were doing all the things but in mississippi, which is its own adventure in terms of being a black person at that time. you're absolutely right. these wives were the secretary. they were the cook when lena horne came to the house. they had to feed all the civil rights activists who were coming to the home to do this work. they were, in the case -- >> some stayed there because of segregation. they couldn't stay at hotels. >> absolutely. they were putting up all of the greats. the dick gregorys of the world were staying at the evers' home. that's where they stayed.

these women were integral to the process. betty shabazz, coretta scott king, and myrlie evers was the sorority nobody wanted to be in. the mothers of the movement say the same thing. >> exactly. >> evers was the first civil rights widow. he dies in june '63. john f. kennedy, the president, had given the speech in which he used some of medgar's language. they were both world war ii veterans, and he had been pressing the kennedy administration to do more on civil rights. to send federal troops to mississippi to protect black people. he was integral. he was literally going, had he not been assassinated, was going to be in d.c. to testify for the civil rights act. he was one of the ones pushing for it. his language about first class citizenship was picked up by people like fannie lou hamer. he was integral to it. when he was killed, to your point, dr. king had given his

initial version of the speech he gave on august 28 at the march on washington, he gave it in detroit, as you know, rev. >> right. >> to 22,000 people. one of the lines that later gets cut out of the speech in d.c. was, "i have a dream that one day, people like medgar evers and emmett till will be able to live their lives in freedom." that's cut out on the march on washington speech, but that's in his original dream. the galvanizing moment for that speech, they did it on the assassination date of emmett till, the date he was lynched. myrlie evers was the only woman invited to speak with the big six. she couldn't do it because she had an naacp commitment, but she would have been on the ddais. the last piece to that is when kennedy comes through on the bill he promised, he invited myrlie evers and charles evers, medgar's older brother, and

myrlie's children, he stood in the white house and gave them gifts. the gift for myrlie was a copy of that bill. >> wow. >> you, i'm so excited for this book. anything about civil rights movement in mississippi and adding to our knowledge and what we still have to overcome. medgar evers went on the g.i. bill, and the experience in world war ii galvanized him somewhat. then he met myrlie the first day, and their love story started. what is fascinating about her decision, and this is what the book gets into, i'm sure, is how did she decide? her parents were opposed to medgar trying to integrate the university of mississippi law school. that became a big thing, his naacp work. the level of terrorism was so crazy. she put herself and her children in that. she followed but became a leader herself. can you talk about her transformation and the role that

her love for her husband played? >> absolutely. her transformation to me is so much the arc of the book. you know, this is a woman who was raised in rural mississippi. both of their families go back to enslavement. she used to sit at the feet of her grandmother, who was an enslaved person. slavery wasn't a distant thing. this was her grandmother, you know, until she was 5 years old. she gets to alcorn. she is this very prim, you know, raised to be like a good girl. she was in this girls group called the chanceanets. the last thing, her grandmother who raised her and her aunt, whose name also is myrlie, who she is named after, they said, there are three people to stay away from in college. upper classmen, veterans, and football players. medgar was all three. she didn't tell them for a while. the first day she gets there, she's leaning against a pole. this handsome football player walks up to her and says, "you better get off that pole.

you'll get electrocuted." she had long hair and says, "pardon me, i think i'm fine," and blows him off. she's thinking, wow, that man is fine, right? she falls in love with him. over time, the way they actually came to be a couple is that he was seven years older than she was, which was a big no-no to her parents. he was this world war ii veteran. he was also this guy who knew the world. you know, his parents had had them read the chicago defender, so they'd know black people were more than just enslaved people. they had a history. he was obsessed with the revolution in kenya and anti-colonialism. he'd talk with her about world affairs. she'd just try to read up to make sure she could have these conversations with him. they had this intellectual romance where they met on an intellectual level before a romantic level. when they finally married, when she turns 18, they get married, he decides, guess where we're moving? the delta. we're going off to the bayou in

mississippi. she was like, say what? where are we going? he had this job with howard, rev, which you know was a civil rights leader, he hires him to sell insurance. what he is also selling in the delta is freedom. he is trying to tell these terrorized people who could be lynched for sassing a white person, who can be lynched for even a child saying they're rude, a white child, you can be lynched for anything in mississippi. >> eyeyeballing. >> right? he is telling them, you have rights through your citizenship. he, himself, was beaten up in his uniform when he comes home from world war ii because he's sitting in the front of the bus and refuses to go to the back. he says, i risked my life and got shot at for this country. i'm not going to the back. he took the beating of his life, but he was a different man after the beating. >> wow. >> the new book is entitled "medgar and myrlie. medgar evers and the love story that awakened america."

out tomorrow. joy reid, congratulations. thank you. >> can i tell you real quick? i brought you a gift, joe and mika. medgar and myrlie mugs. >> stop, i love that. >> you guys like your "morning joe" so i'm going to send them to you. these are your mugs so you can cheers to each other. i love a good couple. >> thank you. >> a good love story. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. you got one. we'll watch "the readouts" 7:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. joy, thank you. >> thank you. coming up, women dominate the biggest night in music. highlights from the grammy awards straight ahead on "morning joe."

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>> reporter: while also accepting the award for "midnights" surprising fans with this announcement. >> my brand-new album comes out april 19th. it's called the tortured poet's didn't. >> one of the night's biggest surprises, superstar celine dion, presenting taylor swift with the award, making her first public appearance, putting her career on hold while battling stiff-person's syndrome. >> while i say i'm happy to be here, i really mean it from my heart. >> "flowers," miley cyrus. >> reporter: it was a huge night for miley cyrus. >> i just won my first grammy. >> reporter: and then again for best record of the year. sza also taking home three awarding including best r&b song. for others it was a family

affair. billie eilish who won song of the year for the barbie hit "what was i made for" with her brother phineas. jay-z took the stage with his daughter ivey. >> she has more grammys than everyone and never won album of the year. >> reporter: a rare performance from tracey chapman joining superstar luke holmes on her remake of the hit "fast cars." >> reporter: one of many headlight felt performances including tributes to those who were lost. oprah coming on stage for the queen of rock 'n' roll, tina turner. and 80-year-old joni mitchell moved the audience to tears as

trevor noah presented her with an award. and billy joel debuted his first song, a solo grammy-performance in 30 years. >> it looks like a great night. nbc's chloe melas with that report. we'll have more on that ahead. also still ahead, senate majority leader chuck schumer set to join us at the top of the hour to weigh in on the sweeping new bipartisan bill for border security that includes aid for israel and ukraine. "morning joe" is coming right back. ukraine "morning joe" is coming right back why choose a sleep number smart bed? because no two people sleep the same. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, february 5th. jonathan mayor, elise jordan and john then lemaire are still with us. senators have unveiled the

long-awaited bipartisan deal to secure the u.s./mexico border and provide aid to both ukraine and israel. nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has the latest. >> reporter: after weeks of closed door meetings, rumors, and promises, senate negotiators feel revealed their plan to confront four different national security emergencies. the $118 billion package provides $60 billion to help support ukraine. $14.1 billion for israel, $4.8 billion to deal with china's growing reach. and forecast the most important ingredient, $20 billion to fund changes to the u.s. migration system. it's expected to win over republicans, but the deal may not be enough. speaker johnson speaking overnight, quote, this bill is worse than we had expected.

quoting, if this bill reaches the house, it will be dead on arrival. republicans in the senate have called this the most conservative border proposal in more than a generation. it cuts off all migration when more than 5,000 people attempt to enter per day. house republicans who count immigration among their most important issues are feeling pressure from their base and former president trump to oppose the package and instead place the blame for the border crisis on president biden. >> the border's a disaster. nobody's seen a border like this. >> reporter: pressed by kristen welker on "meet the press," speaker johnson denied trump was exerting influence over his conference. >> is donald trump calling the shots here, mr. speaker? >> of course, not. he is not calls the shots. i am calling the shots for the house. >> reporter: a new poll shows

voters trust trump more than biden. now republicans will be forced to decide whether to deal with the issue now or wait and hope it will compel their voters to the polls in november. >> nbc ryan nobles with that report. joining us now, senate democratic majority leader chuck schumer. >> good to be here. happy monday. >> happy monday. we love mondays. you said you worked very closely with leader mcconnell on this. this bill now that we see what's in it seems to be as bipartisan as it gets. why wouldn't both sides really want this to go through? >> well, that's a great question, mika. look, it took a long time, four months of arduous negotiations. they fell off the tracks hundreds of times. i was on the phone at midnight saying we've got to keep going. why? we're at a turning point in america. history will look back on this and say did america fail itself?

why is it crucial? well, if we don't aid ukraine, putin will walk all over ukraine, we will lose the war, and we could be fighting in eastern europe and a nato ally. america won't like that. if the war advances with hamas, that perpetual war will go on and on and on. if we don't offer humanitarian aid to those in gaza, the war will go on. it's chaos. we have to do something legislative a few months ago, but what has happened in answer to your question, so this is crucial for america. it's a turning point. history is going to look over our shoulders and say did we rise to the occasion. to his credit mitch mcconnell did, but too many republicans including speaker johnson are just scared to death of donald trump. donald trump has said he wants chaos. donald trump has said, well, wait till i become president. that will take at least a year.

ukraine could be gone. the border will get much worse. war in the middle east will get worse, maybe bringing us into it. he's doing it all for political reasons. and let me just say, will senators -- the crucial question, the 64,000 dollar question, the majority of republican senators know this is a good thing to do. it's a compromise. i don't like everything in it. neather does mcconnell. but it's a compromise, and that's the only way to get important things done in the senate. we proved that two years ago with bipartisan legislation. and will the senators drop out the political noise from trump and his minions and do the right thing for america? it's a crucial question. history is looking down on every one of us right now. >> so, senator, what do you say to speaker johnson who says this bill is worse than he thought or whatever it was he said? how does one not see how these house republicans are responding

to this bill, has not the hand of donald trump. >> i say to speaker johnson, don't let the 30 hard right people in the house who are extreme, they wanted us to default, they wanted the government not to pay its debts, they wanted the government to shut down. they're extremists, and they're running your show. do the right thing. you know what the right thing to do is. you know we need to fix our border. you know that it has to be bipartisan. the bill that you passed didn't get a single democratic vote in the house or the senate. how are you going to get anything done when you just want to make a speech as you admittedly say the border is in chaos. do something about it. don't politically posture. >> as speaker johnson just noted, he came out against the bill saying it's worse than he expected. he's also very clear, it's dead on arrival, has no chance to pass the house.

but if it does pass the senate, which you're confident it will do. >> i'm confident, hopeful. >> let's do it in two parts. talk about why you're hopeful, and if you get it through the senate, what happens if it's dead? >> good question. senators have to rise to the occasion. a large number of senators have shown real courage. senator lankford, i mean, he was chosen by mitch mcconnell to negotiate this because he's very conservative. he's not in the middle of where republican senators are. he's somewhat to the right, a very religious, god-fearing man. he had the courage to do it. mcconnell did it. maybe i'm not supposed to say something good about him because the right wing will go ow, ow, ow. he knows what will happen to

america if putin and ukraine succeeds. we have some of that's right-winged republicans who are horribly political because so much is at stake. let's assume our o senators in the senate rise to the occasion, okay? i hope they will. everyone is talking to each other. once they look at the bill -- when lankford showed some of the republicans the bill, they finally saw what was in it and said, oh, this is a real compromise. this isn't to sell out one way or the other. if it passes the senate, there are a large number of congressmen in the house. first, there's a big group of hawks in the middle, and they care about funding ukraine. they always have and the strategy of johnson is right now do nothing. there's a large number of pro-israel people. they care about it. then there's a large number of progressive legislators -- i'm

included -- who want to see the people in gaza don't starve and we get that aid to them. plus there are those who care about taiwan and there's china to bolster us. there's aggression in the world. we've got a lot of dictators lining up, russia, china, iran. we don't want this to happen. >> speaker johnson is suggesting he won't even bring it up for a vote. >> he's saying that now. his hope is we pass this in -- his nightmare is we pass it in the senate. i hope. if we put this bill on the -- excuse me. if you put the bill on the floor of the house, we'd pass. we'd get a lot of democrats to

vote and a good number of republicans. >> senator, we go back many, many, many years. >> we sure do. >> if you look at this, is part of the battle to get enough republicans since you have some democrats for whatever reasons that are against it and in the house, we talk about johnson, but johnson doesn't have a huge majority in the house. it's only like a couple in the house and hakeem jeffries so far has been able to deliver a lot of the democrats, even some progressives like you and i may have some question, but it's the overall good. can you etch out enough republicans in the senate and in the house since you only need four or five given johnson's not playing with a strong hand here, can you get enough to pass these bills when you're looking at cities being invaded, democratic

majors, particularly black ones and you see cops being beat up in times square, and you should have these humanitarian migrant kind of situation here, but at the same time, we are looking at the fact that we're at a crisis level here. >> it's broken. everyone admits. left, right, center, it's broken. we can all sit in our corners and say do it my way or no way. it's going to continue next year because we have all of these gangs and coyotes bringing more people who are struggling for their lives across the border. so the question is are we able to get -- we will lose a few democratic votes, but not many. the overwhelming view in my caucus is first for ukraine and aid for israel. second, to fix the border. i think we'll get the vast majority. but the way the senate votes, as

you know, we need 60. we have 51. we need at least nine. the more, the better, because that puts more pressure on johnson to go along with his body. and in the house, you know, as you say, hakeem is doing a great job, our fellow brooklynite. brooklyn's in the house. there's a large number of people in his caucus who don't want to see ukraine go down the drain. that's it. this started as ukraine. republicans said add border. we needed votes. and we did it. we acted in good faith. it's not everything you or i want, but it's certainly an improvement dealing with the chaos at the border. >> well, this definitely has a lot of senate support in it.

do you agree with the ongoing kinetic action against the houthis? a bipartisan group has come forward. >> yes, they have. thus far the president has given adequate notice on every one of these, and that satisfies me at the point. >> all right. senate majority chuck schumer, we'll leave it there and watch what happens with the legislation. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> we appreciate it. >> this is a historic moment, and i feel it. >> it hopefully is. all right. thank you very much, senator. turning now to the west coast where extreme weather is pounding california as a dangerous atmospheric river soaks the region. several evacuation notices are in effect across the counties and officials warn it's life-threatening.

nbc's liz reports. >> reporter: this morning torrential rain and powerful winds causing havoc across california, from san francisco to san diego, 389 million people, virtually the entire state under flood watches, the monster storm toppling trees, causing spinouts and landslides. among the hardest hit areas, santa barbara. here in downtown santa barbara, we're already flooding. cars are trying to get through. the tow truck coming to get them out. residents caught off guard. police are now evacuating this neighborhood. they have this armored vehicle here going door to door, telling people to get out. throughout california, dozens of counties out of power. several communities are under

preemptive evacuation orders and warnings. >> this has the potential to be a historic form. >> reporter: in northern plains california, drivers facing the first hurricane warning for the first time. the police rescued six puppies and nine dogs from a river. this street crashing into a home. inside nobody was hurt. >> sleeping seven feet away. bam, through the roof. >> nbc's liz kreutz with that report. and secretary antony blinken is visiting the middle east for the fifth times. secretary blinken will meet with officials in saudi arabia, egypt, qatar, israel, and the west bank. the state didn't says the secretary will continue to push for an agreement that secures

the release of hostages held in gaza and includes a humanitarian pause that allows for further aid to be delved. and still ahead on "morning joe," the united states begins carrying out retaliatory air strikes following the drone attack in jordan that killed three u.s. service members. we'll have expert analysis on that response and what comes next. you ooh you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. orning joe." we'll be right back.

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for nbc news and former cia and didn't of defense, jeremy bash as well. >> we'll move to border security issue to the side. i've always been concerned about border security. i believe if you come to the united states, you should come here legally. i think we need our borders controlled. we have a chance to do it. mike johnson doesn't want to do it because donald trump doesn't want to do it. let's talk about what's happening overseas and what mike johnson who has voted pro-pew tip on every single ukraine aid bill since he's been in congress, let's talk about ukraine. if this funding is killed again, how dire is the situation? and, sadly, i i had to be asking this, but what message does it send to our friends, and i think more importantly our enemies alike? >> let's actually start with border as follows. the border solving it is a

national security issue in terms not only of controlling our border, which we need to do, but also because these other aid packages are linked to it. and it's ukraine, it's taiwan, and it's israel. all of them are part of this package. and if that crumbles in front of us, the consequences will be significant in each of those venues. so now let's shift to the middle east and israeli aid alongside that ukrainian aid. of the two, israel is fighting a smaller war in a dominant position. they will continue on. but they need the aid that is part of this package. but where it gets dire, your word -- and it's an accurate one, joe, is ukraine. we're scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of the ammunition, the replacement tanks, the additional armor

personnel carriers, the radar components, the anti-air systems. all of that is on the red line right now. fortunately our european colleagues are stepping up and can provide some of that, but this is the moment for the united states to continue what we have done successfully thus far and put a stake in the heart of vladimir putin. if we cut off the aid now because of our internal domestic challenges, we'll be our colleagues and reputation globally. >> the message that mike johnson and the house republicans are sending to putin, yes, america will yreka pit late, we won't stand by our allies, we'll leave them in the most dire moments. the israelis, yes, we're actually more interested in

helping donald trump than helping you, so hamas will take great, great heart by the fact that we're not funding the israelis, and then mike johnson is stopping the funding for our friends in asia. so what signal does that send to communist china? president xi is loving it. all the people donald trump says he loves and respects, president xi, he's very happy right now because of mike johnson. donald trump says hezbollah is brigg yanlt. they're really happy right now because donald trump and mike johnson and, you know, vladimir putin. all of these people he says he loves, mike johnson is doing their bidding right now, and for fentanyl drug runners, they've got to love mike johnson too. they probably have a picture of him up, you know, in their warehouse. >> everything about mike josh

shapiro's behavior points to trump and points to trump's relationship with the situation, whether it be wanting to cozy up with vladimir putin or wanting thing abouts to go badly in his country now so he can come in and be president again. jeremy bash, voters may not be as clued in to what's going on in ukraine and israel given kitchen table issues right in front of them in terms of just trying to get to work and take care of kids. at the same time, does the white house need to do more to get support for these wars and control and contain the narrative as it pertains to the truth? the future of our democracy depends on the election, you could argue, but it also depends on our partners being stable. >> mika, i think the president was highly effective when he gave that oval office address after returning from his middle east trip when he said, look, we're going to be proposing to

congress, democracy. it's under fire, it's under threat, it's under strain. if we want to stand up, we have to be able to arm, train, and equip ukrainians. we have to be able to fund air defenses and capabilities for israel. we have to provide weapons capabilities from taiwan, which is under threat against china, as we just referencedful more can be done to articulate them. >> coming up, a conversation with senator mark warner who is our next guest straight ahead on "morning joe." our next guest straight ahead on "morning joe." i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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cash assistance to enroll in treatment if they use drugs. i know what it's like to lose family to drug addiction. it's too late for some families. but our city needs to do what's necessary to save lives. pthings have gotten better recently, but too many businesses like mine are still getting broken into. it's time our police officers have access to 21st century tools to prevent and solve more crimes. allow public safety cameras that other bay area police departments have to discourage crime, catch criminals, and increase prosecutions. prop e is a smart step our city can take right now to keep san francisco moving in the right direction. please join me in voting yes on prop e. i'm daniel lurie pand i've spent my career fighting poverty, helping people right here in san francisco. i'm also a father raising two kids in the city. deeply concerned that city hall is allowing crime and lawlessness to spread.

now we can do something about it by voting yes on prop e. a common sense solution that ensures we use community safety cameras to catch repeat offenders and hold them accountable. vote yes on e. bombers. the barrage of strikes hit more than 85 targets in seven locations. it came in response to the attack last month in jordan that killed three american soldiers and wounded dozens more. in a statement president biden said the round of strikes would not be the last. iran called the strikes a strategic mistake, saying they will, quote, have no result other than intensifying tensions and instability in the region. meanwhile the u.s. continues to launch attacks against the houthis and yemen. on saturday the u.s. and uk struck 36 targets across 13

different locations. in a joint statement, the country said the strikes hit varied weapons storage facilities and missile systems the houthis have used to attack ships in the red sea. this was the third time the u.s. and uk have launched joint strikes against the terrorist group. then yesterday the u.s. announced it hit five anti-terrorist missiles. they were prepared to launch ships in the red sea. >> admiral, over the last 30, 40 years we've gotten used to missiles being fired in the middle of the desert. americans get skeptical after a while saying they're firing them to create a warning, no real damage. this is far beyond what we've seen in the past. explain the strategic impact of these strikes. >> i'll be happy to. i've fired any number of tomahawk missiles from destroyers in these

circumstances. there are two elements here, joechlt one is the deterrence piece of this, creating in the minds of the houthis and the radical groups in iraq, in syria, iranian proxies a sense of fear more is coming. and importantly here, this round of strikes has also been directed against iranian personnel, the iranian revolutionary guard. you've got the deterrence piece of this. gosh, there's probably more where this came from. and then secondly, the tactical piece of this actually destroying capability. here in particular this series of strikes in the red sea area are very, very direct against missiles, radars, buried ammunition, command and control. these are takeing away real

capability and likewise supporting these shiite militia. i would argue and any expert will tell you, you're creating a strategic deterrence that's hard to measure and assess, but watch for reactions but i know we're creating a real attack by destroying their capability. this is the beginning of a k578 pain and a smart one that we've heard from voices over the weekend, mostly public, describing the attacks, that the u.s. waited too long, they were overly telegraphed in what they were going to do, it didn't make much of a difference. weigh in on that. officials tell me it's highly unlikely. with that as a given, president biden has said more's coming. what do you think it is?

>> first on the timing, i think these operations are complex and challenging. they require setting the theater, making sure our allies are witting of our plans and make sure the airways are cleared so we can send our b1 bombers all the way from texas. this is a complex military plan. to set it out and execute it, i think the proof is in the pudding. they properly executed it and it's still in effect. look, are more coming. and the bottom line, stavridis is right. we're going to have to show the iranians not only do we have the capacity to hit more targets, but we have the will. you know, take a step back.

what's going on in the region? iran is trying to disrupt the three-way face deal. we were on the cusp of having an agreement, a historic agreement, a piece to end all peace. it's on a scale another seen since the camp david according. they unleashed hamas, hz boll la, houthis, iraq, and seer ya, and it's going to go on for a while until the iraqis get the message. >> it's a little confusing. what's actually the strategy and what's the end goal of these strikes? it seems as if though they're strikes to do strikes without any real purpose. you see iraqis are killed, syrians are killed, no ai -- what is the overall grand strategy here of the biden

administration in the middle east other than these one-off strikes when we're targeting? >> yeah. let's start with jeremy's excellent comment a moment ago, which is part of this, kind of going from the inside out here, is to create conditions -- basically between saudi arabia and israel. when we bring our friends together, we emerge stronger. do that, you have to knock back the iranians who are determined to cause us to withdraw. moving out a little bit, this is also part on an alliance strategy. et people have signed on. keeping the global economy open,

that's a simt kang part f o is those every time with these strikes you take away capability, you are reducing the possibility of further attacks. i think this is actually a well planned and escalating strategy that's moving up that ladder, and ultimately are we going to have to send johns over downtown tehran. let's hope not. i think the administration has got it about right. coming up, we'll dig into friday's blockbuster economic report, and whatter nefrm. nbc's christine romans brajs down numbers straight ahead on morning joe. on morning joe.

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. campaign finance records show in the last six months is super pacs behind donald trump spent $50 million on trump's legal fees and that's with the world's cheapest lawyers on the planet. can you imagine spending money on the people who just lost you le $3 million? >> the supreme court is scheduled to hear argument this week in the appeal of the colorado high courts position that said donald trump was ineligible to run. it bars anyone who took an oath as the officer of the united states and then engaged in insurrection from ever holding office again. the supreme court's decision is likely to be the most consequential election ruling

since "bush v. gore" more than two decades ago. also this week, the final verdict in former president trump's new york civil business fraud trial could come. the decision had been originally scheduled for release at the end of last month, but the judge delayed the ruling. it's already ruled the trump organization has committed fraud. the verdict will determine penalties and resolve other claims of wrongdoing from the case. and joining us now is former litigator and msnbc analyst lisa rubin. lisa, let's start there. what is causing the delay? i understand there was a letter from the judge that is a monitor in charge of trump's businesses, and there's a whole bunch of incomplete information that that judge is dealing with. how does that impact the decision judge goran has to

make? >> we don't know if it's impacting judge engoran's decision and the timing. as you noted it points to a lot of improprieties and trump's financial statements. one of the things it points to is for years it's been underthat one of the business entiies in trump organization loaned trump personally $48 million. according to judge jones in a footnote in this letter. she could never find, no matter how many times she asked, documentation of that loan and was later told essentially that the loan didn't exhibit. the trump organization lawyers refute that. they gave her an intracompany memo telling her the debt had been extinguished. i looket at the memo. it's from 2023. it's a memo to the file. nobody had the guts to sign it

essentialically. there is still to this day documentation that the loan would have existed. you may ask what's the big deal about this? it would be a big deal if the loan didn't exist. there would be massive taxes assigned to that. in essence a continuation of the same fraud going on for years and has been showing up in his financial disclosures. as a candidate, you'll remember president trump filed his financial disclosures, showing all of his disclosuring, it's like "i love lucy." someone's got so explaining to

do. >> does it play into the constant narrative of any of these cases, that is delay, delay, delay, what happens as they're trying to figure this loan out or whatever it was? >> you know, i don't think it will have much of an impact. judge engoran said he would try to have an aen ben bethis saturday. i think it pushes it out to the week that the judge said could fill an entire room of the trump organization nation and trump's own fraud, but we're not talking about weeks or even months. >> lisa, it with us noted this was a big case as the colorado case comes before the supreme court, as mika said, perhaps the

most. walk us through what we might expect it to hear? what will the outcome be? >> i think the outcome is that the court does not disqualify trump from being on the presidential primary ballots. how he gets there is another story. one of the things that puts a chill into me personally as a lawyer is something that donald trump's team put on the very last pages of their brief. it's been long presumed when the spreept court makes a fall yeel findings. houf, jonathan mitchell, who is donald trump's lawyer here, there's no reason to give any adheres of that. in this case, that would have

big consequences, but overall in terms of supreme court jurisprudence, that would have huge consequences. the spraem court is no longer the final arbiter of its facts and basket i the subpoena or state to federal appeals. finally this, fulton county d.a. fani willis is finally acknowledging having a relationship with special prosecutor nathan wade. it came on friday in a 176-page filingnd around indisqualifying conflict of interest. election interference codefendant michael roman, who first made the allegation of an improper relationship, is attempting to use it to have his charges dismissed. former president trump has

joined that effort. there is an evidentiary hearing on the allegations scheduled for next week. lisa, what do you make of this? >> in a word, it's tawdry. i don't think it has much impact on whether fani willis should be disqualified. at the end of the day, the things here that are troubling -- and i want to be clear with our viewers. there are some things that are troubling, in particular the fact that nathan wade doesn't have a background in rico law. if you take fani willis at her word that no relationship was between them until after her appointment and that these are two independent people who in the courses of one of their divorces ended up in a relationship with one another, there really is no "there" there. the name of the game with donald trump in litigation always is delay, delay, delay. >> it begs the question why in

the world in a complex rico case, the most important that not only would she ever try, but that any state would ever try against a politician, she would appoint somebody who has no experience in rico law. >> let me play devil's advocate. there are two other special prosecutors here, one of whom, john floyd, is very experienced in rico law. fani willis would say she appointed nathan wade here because she knew him to be an effective leader, that he is effectively the quarterback of the team. if that's the case, that makes more sense. but, again, there are some judgment calls here that are probably not the best, not making everybody here smell good. the optics are bad even if legally they're on solid ground.

coming up, we'll go live to iraq for the latest on the u.s. air strikes there inside the pentagon's plan to stamp out the threat against american troops. "morning joe" is back in a moment. can troops "morning joe" is back in a moment hey, you should try new robitussin honey medi-soothers for long-lasting cough and sore throat relief. try new robitussin lozenges with real medicine and find your voice. you know? we really need to work on your people skills. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great.

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a jury in michigan is set to begin deliberations today in the involuntary manslaughter trial of jennifer crumbley the mother of a teenager who killed four people at oxford high school back in 2021. the jury heard closing arguments on friday when she admitted she and her husband gifted their son the firearm later used in the attack. >> reporter: this morning, a michigan jury is preparing to answer an unprecedented question, at what point can a parent be found guilty for their

child's deadly shooting rampage? >> we didn't just hand him a gun as here you go, son. it was something he could use when we went to the range as a family together. >> reporter: she was cross examined. >> it's pretty clear you didn't trust james with much. did you trust him to get out of bed on time? >> correct. >> you didn't trust him to keep track of your son? >> oh, i trusted him to keep track of my son. >> this is the person you entrusted with a deadly weapon? >> i did. >> reporter: defense attorneys saying crumbley could not have predicted her son would kill four schoolmates. >> he's not sick. he doesn't have a mental illness. i'm asking you find jennifer

crumbley not guilty. >> reporter: protects getting the last word. >> he literally drew a picture of what he was going to do. it said, "help me." it had a drawing of the gun. >> reporter: the mother of one child who narrowly escaped the shooting spree spoke. >> they knew he wasn't right. >> that was nbc's jesse kirsch with that report. and we roll into the fourth hour of "morning joe" now. it's 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east.

we'll start with politics. the senate could vote this week on a bipartisan bill addressing border security and foreign aid. the $118 billion package was released yesterday. it calls for over $20 billion in security measures aimed at reducing crossings at the southern border. it would raise the standard of asylum. it grants new emergency authority to the white house and homeland security department to close the border. a large chunk of the security package, more than $60 billion will go towards supporting ukraine. $14 billion would be given to israel, and $10 billion would be given for humanitarian assistance for civilians in gaza and the west bank. seems like there's something in there for everyone. last night speaker mike johnson posted online that the house

won't even bring the bill up for a vote. the lead republican senator who negotiated the bill, james lankford of oklahoma, responded. >> i'm a little confused. it builds border wall, expands border patrol officers, detention beds, creates a faster process for deportation, clears up a lot of the long-term issues and loopholes that have existed in the asylum law and gives us emergency authority that stops the chaos right now on the border. i'm a little confused. i'll have to get with the speaker's team on that to find out what part would be, quote, unquote, worse than expected. i hope they actually read through the text. >> let's bring in democratic senator mark warner of virginia, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee.

it's a truly bipartisan bill. it had chuck schumer working directly with mitch mcconnell and figuring it out. and, yet, house republicans and the speaker himself say it's pretty much dead on arrival. what do you say to mike johnson beyond the fact that he denies that he is bending to trump's wishes, which makes me wonder who else is influencing this decision. vladimir putin? because everything he does seems to play into the russian leader's hands. is it trump? is it putin? what do you have to say to the republican speaker of the house? >> let's acknowledge this took a long time. this will be the most transformative change in border policy in decades. as a matter of fact, if you go down and look at the republican wish list of what they want to change on the border, asylum,

parole, more officers, making sure that we do a better job screening for fentanyl, every one of that hit list is addressed in this piece of legislation. on top of that, i'm glad you asked about ukraine. that, in my mind, i can't think of a more important decision than whether we will stand with our ukrainian allies, particularly after europe ponied up 50 billion euro in the last week or so, or whether we will walk away and have america's word never trusted again. this does touch all the hot issues, money for israel, gaza, a component part for indo-pacific and helping taiwan. this is the most comprehensive both security and border piece. i do think as people get a chance to digest this, my hope is that the senate will move aggressively and get 70 or 75

votes. and then if the speaker puts it down, who is he kowtowing to? >> are you confident it'll make it to the senate? and if it does, is there anything the white house can do? i mean, everything is laid out for americans to read, for the media to cover. speaker johnson knows what's in the bill. these far-right house republicans who say they're not listening to donald trump even though he has said he's got his finger on the button here in terms of which way to go and he doesn't want this bill to go through because it would make biden look good, that's where we're at. there's no other excuses, especially if they're checking off their wish list in this bill. what could it be? >> i think time will tell. i think they've hit every item that my republican friends and,

frankly, a lot of democrats have agreed as well. we have to make changes at the border. it is a mess. these are the most substantive changes put forth in a decade. in fact, many of the things on this list even president trump requested when he was president. you can't do it all with executive authority. there is hypocrisy in washington, but this would take the case if my republican friends would say, we want the border safe, we want to help ukraine and israel and push back china in the indo-pacific. >> john heilemann, your thoughts on this, especially given the aid to israel and ukraine at this critical time? this is not a situation the president has asked for on the

world stage, but he is managing two wars. it appears to me, again, it is playing into the hands of putin to not give aid to ukraine, a country that right now is fighting for the safety of the world. >> right, mika. one thing senator schumer was talking about earlier, the history here is interesting. this is all about america's role in the world. this is a border bill only because of the politics of it, because republicans are going to force the border bill in. is it the case on these broader international questions of ukraine and israel and trying to manage that situation, is that a place where there is no longer the kind of bipartisan consensus of support that there was? the israel question is new in front of us, but this ukraine question has been going on for some years.

where do we stand on those questions? if you took the border bill out of this, where would we be in terms of trying to get the house and senate to back joe biden on the world stage? >> remember, the border got put in because our republican friends said, we've got a crisis on the border, our hair's on fire, if we don't do something now, we're not going to give you aid to ukraine. it took democrats a while to move this far, but we have moved. on the issue of ukraine, actually, there have been some loud voices against aid to ukraine out of the republican conference. my friends reported to me that the overwhelming majority of republican senators knew that if you walk away from ukraine now, america's word will never be taken again. all that will be tested this week. we're going to have a vote as

early as wednesday. >> on that, we know that many republicans changed their stance on the border piece of this because donald trump came out against this and said, i want to preserve this as an election year issue. he's also been very reluctant to back aid to ukraine. he has close ties to vladimir putin. what happens if trump says don't vote for ukraine? what recourse do you have? >> i hope the american people will then say, this guy says he wants border controls, but turns it down for a political issue. i've been in this job 14 years. i can't think of a more important vote, a more historic vote of whether we will stand by ukraine, which has taken out 80% of the russian ground forces prewar, where the europeans have put up $50 billion, where nations like finland and sweden have joined nato because of american leadership.

if we walk away from that, that will be a mistake of historic proportions. if donald trump calls for that, again, the guy who was involved in the investigation into the 2016 russian interference in our elections and this connection between trump and putin is pretty remarkable. donald trump, one thing about him is he's an equal opportunity offender. he abuses everyone, domestically and on the world stage. the one guy he's never said a bad word about, vladimir putin. >> exactly. i want to bring our viewers up to date on another story and get your comments, senator. the united states on friday, as you know, carried out air strikes on locations used by iran-backed militias in iraq and syria in retaliation for the drone strike in jordan that killed three americans and injured dozens of others. keir simmons joins us live from

erbil iraq with more on this. what's the latest? >> reporter: honestly things are looking pretty tough for the biden administration in this region too. we're just getting news this morning of another deadly drone strike on a base in eastern syria, kurdish forces, who of course, are backed by the u.s. are saying that eight of their, quote, commando fighters have been killed and 17 injured, some of them seriously, the kurds say. this is in eastern syria, from the same area where those iranian-backed militia were targeted just over the weekend by the biden administration, by the pentagon. meanwhile, the secretary of state is flying to the region to try to push, again, for some kind of peace. this morning, secretary blinken

traveling to saudi arabia, the u.s. battling on multiple fronts for a ceasefire and hostage release in gaza and against iran. >> we intend to take additional strikes and action to continue to send a clear message. >> reporter: waves of american strikes against iranian-backed militia went all weekend, including on friday night in syria and iraq, hitting munition stores and drone factories. the three u.s. service members' bodies arriving. a second operation launched from the u.s.s. dwight eisenhower. 36 strikes in yemen against houthi targets disrupting shipping in the red sea. yesterday angry iraqis held funerals, the number of dead in double figures.

the striks did not kill high-value iranian operatives. >> have you ruled out strikes inside iran? >> i'm not going to get into what we've ruled in and ruled out. >> reporter: iran releasing a highly produced video in english warning the u.s. not to sink an iranian ship accused of helping the houthis. >> those engaging in terrorist activities jeopardy international maritime rules, security and global responsibility or potential future international risks. >> reporter: tracking data shows the ship some experts believe to be an iranian spy vessel close by when commercial shipping is targeted in the red sea and gulf of aidan. as america prepared its response last week, nbc news watched the ship move away. mika, the houthis once again

putting out a defiant message today. but it may be u.s. partners that should be the focus as well, because this attack on the kurds here in this region, it's worth just noting that they are under huge pressure, particularly from the iranians. eight of their fighters have died, according to the kurds. i've heard from a number of kurds here saying how come the u.s. only comes to bring about retribution when americans are killed? we're here holding the line. i think there is a huge pressure. we've been here for a week. there is huge pressure here in iraq and syria from the iranians. it's a real challenge, frankly, for the u.s. at this stage. >> i can imagine. keir simmons live in iraq, thank you very much. senator, my question for you is, you know, does it seem so far that this action has changed the

dynamic with iran and, in fact, it's ratcheted up and they seem almost emboldened by these attacks. my question is, how does the dynamic get shifted if the overriding philosophy is we don't want a wider war? >> i was just in the region on a bipartisan intelligence trip in saudi arabia, jordan and israel. i didn't hear any voice anywhere that said we need to widen this war to a full-fledged regional conflict particularly between the united states and iran. i do think we have to extract a price. the president, i think, has kept all his options open about further strikes in syria and iraq. it was a multinational strike against the houthis. the houthis may have been backed by iran, but they are pretty much on their own . they actually view themselves as the houthi leader is higher than

the supreme leader in iran. i do think their taking out shipping in the red sea requires that kind of international response. if we look back and say bomb, bomb, bomb inside of iran, i remember at one point president trump brought us all into the white house and he was going to strike iran, even left us with that impression. later that evening he changed his mind, because someone convinced him of the implications of full-fledged war against iran. then he, as a president should, took his time and picked the time and place to strike back. it was six months later he took out general soleimani in baghdad, extracted revenge without leading to a wider war. i think that's what the president is trying to navigate here as well. as jake sullivan said, all options are on the table, and we should extract further

retribution against iranian forces, but at our time and choosing, not of others'. >> iran has backed one attack after another against the united states. obviously they've been behind terrorist activities across the middle east since 1979 and across the world. so how do we balance that fine line between not expanding this regional war and at the same time doing what we can to push back on iran and sending the message that further aggression on their part will do no good? >> again, this is where i think joe biden's experience plays to america's strength. joe biden's experience in terms of keeping our allies in the region. it was a nine-nation coalition in terms of planes being

launched. i think this is the challenge. obviously our pushback against these militia groups prior to the attack in jordan was not sufficient and he has ratcheted things up. we've heard over the weekend these strikes are not over. i think there will probably be a need for additional strikes. >> democratic senator mark warner of virginia, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," we'll have an update on the severe weather that is threatening millions of people on the west coast. plus, president biden got another round of incredible economic news on friday, but the data is not breaking through with voters. steve kornacki is here to break down the latest polling. also ahead, we'll go through the top moments from the biggest night in music. "morning joe" is coming right back. music "morning joe" is coming right back

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a live look at lax for you. it is 21 past the hour. 6:21 a.m. on the west coast. southern california is under a state of emergency as a major storm passes over the region. >> reporter: the first ever hurricane force wind warning issued for california's central coastline as wind gusts over 80 miles an hour are felt in northern california. this tree crushing a car on the 101 freeway north of san francisco. firefighters work to free a man trapped inside. officials confirming the driver has serious injuries.

more than 600 properties have been ordered by officials to evacuate in santa barbara, los angeles and ventura counties. >> hopefully it's not quite as bad as they say, but i've got a bad feeling. >> reporter: relentless weather causing concerns ahead of the grammys red carpet and postponing the final round of the pebble beach pro am. schools in impact zones have been cancelled monday. this fire captain shows us the burn car from the thomas fire and 2018 deadly mudslides in montecito. this basin created to stop water and debris from reaching nearby homes. >> you can see some of the remnants of boulders pulled out before, bigger than houses. >> reporter: 37 million in los angeles, san diego, and

sacramento under flood alerts. >> as you heard, this storm is a major storm. it is another atmospheric river expected to last this evening through tuesday morning. it has been described by the weather service as having a, quote, high risk of life-threatening and damaging flooding. >> nbc's dana griffin with that report. turning back now to politics and a new poll out from nbc news with some concerning numbers for president biden. nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki is at the big board. >> i think the poll lays out the challenges at the start of this reelection year that president biden faces and some of the headwinds that he is running into. we matched up trump versus biden in a general election. trump at 47%, joe biden at 42%.

the last time we were in the field was back in november. trump is up two then. this is the entire history going back five years of nbc polling of trump versus biden. two things stand out. this is the 2020 cycle starting in late 2019 going all the way to election eve in 2020. you notice that joe biden led every single one of our polls against donald trump in the 2020 cycle. now you fast forward to this cycle. we had biden up in june. we had a tie in september. trump for the first time led in our poll in november and has expanded it to five in our most recent poll. the difference, the political atmosphere, the polling atmosphere significantly different in our poll and really every major poll out there compared to last time around

versus this time around. his approval rating in our poll clocks in at 37%. that is his low in our poll. that's the lowest a president has checked in in an nbc poll since the final days of the george w. bush administration in 2008. put it in perspective. these are the incumbents this century to seek reelection. where was their approval rating in our poll at the start of their reelection year? barack obama started at 49% in 2012. he won. donald trump was 46% in 2020. he lost. joe biden at 37%, markedly different. only two incumbent presidents seeking reelection have had approval ratings at this level or below in an election year.

digging into the numbers, we asked folks what's the most important issue to you and who do you prefer on that issue, they come up with the economy, the border. obviously advantage is for trump. the biden folks hoping the economy keeps improving, that people start feeling that. does that change their position on biden? obviously drama in d.c. on the border right now, could that change those numbers? those numbers do have to change for joe biden to get closer to trump in this poll. also, does the candidate have the necessary physical or mental health? we asked the question in 2020 when trump and biden ran. it's about the same. you ask it now and it's 2-1 trump over biden. the next one is probably the most concerning. we asked this question, is the candidate competent and effective to be president.

this was biden's big advantage in 2020. he led trump on this question by nine points in 2020. trump now leads biden in our poll by 16 points on this number. that's simple competent and effective as president. that hurt trump four years ago and probably cost him the election. it's helping him now in our poll. >> there are a lot of numbers in here that are shocking. it's outrageous if you look at people saying that what donald trump has the necessary physical and mental health and who's the best for america across the globe and even who's best at protecting democracy. that's a draw. it's so preposterous, it's laughable. my question, though, is what are do you sense by looking into

these numbers is the key thing that's dragging joe biden down on all of these issues? listen, we could take the economy. the economy is doing great by almost every standard. compared to ronald reagan's morning in america in 1984, it looked like a really bad economic time. yet, joe biden's numbers are just trailing trump even in areas where he should be really strong. what's your take-away? >> there's always the argument that if there's steady good economic news, that should help in the polls. in terms of time, there's room for that to happen. that's something the biden folks are hoping for. we'll see if that kicks in. you mentioned reagan in '84. i don't think we live in a world of landslides for either party

anymore. but in '84, at the start of that year it looked very competitive and it was an epic landslide for ronald reagan. you could look at the border, the economy, foreign policy, israel/gaza war. the numbers are very low on all those. even the issue of democrats protecting democracy, that's a wash when you ask folks trump or biden, who's better at protecting democracy. i wonder how much of this flows from this competent and effective question. in some ways, it's the difference between being an incumbent and a challenger. i know donald trump is an unusual challenger in that he was once president. there is an immediacy in american politics. folks tend to forget the past easily or rewrite the past.

it really comes down to when you think back to the disadvantage trump had in 2020, covid was roaring, there was constant soap opera drama in his administration. i think all that fed this number here. what would be feeding this number with biden right now? you take a look at the news, between the middle east, between the border situation -- there was obviously plenty of attention to that situation last week with the police officers in new york. you wonder is there a broader feeling people have of generalized chaos. when they get that feeling, we've seen in the past they certainly take it out on the incumbent across the board. >> why don't we look at what's

really probably really hurting joe biden the most here? when you see numbers in the low 20s on competence, when you see numbers in the low 30s in effectiveness, that takes a lot of defecting democrats to get to that point. how bad right now is the situation with joe biden? >> bad. i think it's bad. if you think back to barack obama at this point when he was running for reelection in 2012, the same thing was happening. the economy was improving, but people hadn't appreciated that yet. even at his worst, when people in the white house in 2012 were most concerned about obama

losing, his base never dropped below 41 or 42. why? because the democratic base never abandoned barack obama. his floor was solid. it didn't matter what happened. he never dropped below 40. a lot of times he never got above 48 or so until election day. when you get down to 37 in a polarized country, it means a bunch of people in your party have decided they're not with you. now, can those people be turned around? certainly. but this gets back to some of these questions steve is raising about competence and health. again, we have seen this train coming down the tracks for months and months. this is not a thing that goes just to swing voters. it's in the democratic party too. you run across democratic base voters all the time who thought that joe biden was a necessary

transitional president. they desperately wanted to beat donald trump in 2020. they did not think they were going to have joe biden at the top of the ticket again in 2024. i don't care what he says publicly, a lot of voters thought we're betting on biden for one term. and now they have not had their concerns addressed. some of those are substantive, but some of those get to these questions that many democrats have expressed. the white house must figure out a more effective way to figure out to address these concerns, or they're going to be in very deep trouble. >> i don't want to oversimplify things, rev. but as you know, sometimes when you're sitting around and trying to figure out the bigger problem, you got to start looking to what the main problem

may be. what i've always found is with character issues, with competence issues, at the end of the day it all comes around to, is the guy doing what the voters want him to do? i mean, look at donald trump's supporters. donald trump says crazy things every night. donald trump says he wants to terminate the constitution, wants to assassinate people. but his people stay with him because they believe in him. on joe biden's case, i think we are seeing the problem with the base being concerned about some things. i don't want to oversimplify it, but if you look at the numbers, especially the young voters, but also with people of color, you look at the numbers on israel/hamas, that war and what

the united states has been doing, even i agree with supporting israel, you look at that and let me tell you something, on the democratic side that is causing a political meltdown, isn't it? >> absolutely. i think the real problem is they've allowed certain forces to act like those of us that support the security of israel and denounce what hamas did, we have been intimidated into feeling that to attack netanyahu is to be anti-semitic. i think to attack netanyahu is in the best interest of israel and gaza. i think the biden campaign and the white house has not taken that on. the other advantage i think they're not taking is you have a rare opportunity in this

election where you have a president that has served four years and a president that has served three years. you need to remind people this is what happened under trump. we had a pandemic that he told you was not coming. he wouldn't listen to fauci. he told you to take bleach. this is what biden did. i mean, they need to contrast the world of trump and the world of biden to remind people how we were stuck in the house for two years because dr. trump told us don't listen to dr. fauci and we ran out of clorox. i think you've got to come right at him. he has a record. we saw what he would do. compare that to what biden does. at least his base would stay intact. when you tell the base this man stacked the supreme court that killed women's right to choose, that killed affirmative action, that killed voting rights, then

the base understands. but when you're talking beltway politics, you're only going to get the beltway votes. >> economic poll numbers for president biden come despite most of the key economic indicators remaining extremely strong. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin and christine romans. give to have you both. andrew, is there something we're missing? the numbers all look really good. if you had to find a bad one, where would it be? >> i listened to the conversation you're having. this is not necessarily a thing i agree with. i think we have a great economy. you look at this economy on all metrics and it's very, very kmng challenging to say it's a problem economy. the challenge, though, the real

challenges -- and i don't blame the president for this, but i think when it's on your watch, you get blamed for it. even with inflation coming down, it went up. prices are still higher than they were three years ago. even if you look at gas prices down and some food prices down, that's great. you can give the president credit for undoing some of the supply chain problems from before and the like. but i think the average american is looking and going it just cost more than it used to. even though my wages might be marginally higher, they say the differential is that i'm still underwater on a relative basis. i think life is relative. i'm not saying that the president should get the blame for this, but i think that's what is happening. follow the money. that's where the money goes, for

better or worse. >> christine, let's get your take on this. the jobs report on friday was blockbuster, roaring economy right now. americans might be feeling better about the economy. they're not giving joe biden any credit. >> they're not. it's those inflation scars. they are deep and fresh. it will take time for those to heal. car insurance and homeowners insurance are up 20 and 30% in some cases. people feel that. wages are up, but a lot of other things are still bothering them. inside the white house, they're very careful about not saying inflation is getting better. they talk about prices, because they know that is what is bothering people. but they are leaning into these numbers. the economy by every metric is doing well. it's the inflation scars perception from consumers that

isn't keeping up. >> what else are you hearing from the biden white house? >> they don't want to say that victory is happening here. they think they have a good coherent story about the american rescue plan and big investments in science and chips. some of those things people will feel in the months ahead. it's also nine months until the election. a lot can happen here. but just the feeling of american consumers is so kind of dark. you talk to people about the economy and then you dig a little deeper. they say, well, i'm doing fine. i really hate it i have to ask a manager to go get toothpaste at the pharmacy. >> what is wall street's

reaction to jay powell? >> we saw last night jay powell speaking on "60 minutes," pushing back the possibility of raising interest rates probably until the middle of the year. he's talking about a hot economy, a good economy. by the numbers, the economy is great. it's very hard to look at this economy and not say it's great. yet, there are so many people who i think do have these scars on the inflation front. the big issue is going to be at some point he is going to lower interest rates, at least that's his intent. the reason he would do that is only because you'd actually think the economy is starting to soften. it's a very interesting dynamic. that may come, if it comes, towards may or june. what does that say as we get right closer to the election?

>> andrew ross sorkin and christine romans, thank you very much. coming up next, it was a big night for women in music at the grammys. taylor swift made history and dropped some big news for her fans. plus, a string of star-studded performances that rocked the house. we'll have a recap of music's biggest night ahead on "morning joe." c's biggest night ahead on "morning joe.

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♪♪ women dominated the 66th annual grammy awards last night, taking home trophies in the top categories. among them, taylor swift, who made history with her record breaking fourth album of the

year win for her album "midnights". >> all i want to do is keep being able to do this. i love it so much. it makes me so happy. it makes me unbelievable happy. all i want to do is keep doing this. thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to do what i love so much. mind blown. thank you so much. >> miley cyrus won her first grammy last night for her hit song "flowers." she won record of the year. newcomer victoria monet took home two grammys for best new artist and best r&b album. best rock album went to

paramour. travis scott gave a fiery performance of a mash-up of songs from his album. luke combs released a remake of tracy chapman's 1988 hit "fast car." miley cyrus gave a show-stopping rendition of her song "flowers." and billy joel performed a brand new song before closing out the show. >> some of these awards shows are just horrible, terrible to watch, especially a lot of music awards shows over the past several years. last night's was different. i've heard from so many big music fans saying last night was one for the books.

it was special. >> the 66th grammy awards was unlike any other. we have seen over the last few years that women in every genre of music from rock to pop to hip-hop to r&b to folk to country, that women dominate everything in music right now commercially and artistically. you saw that all come together last night. here's billie eilish, incredible performance. miley cyrus, the new cher, incredible performance. olivia blood on herself, an incredible performance. you showed it already. tracy chapman unannounced, coming back. she hasn't been on stage since 2009, coming out here 15 years into basically a retirement,

comes out and sings this duet with luke combs. people all over the country, i would say, in tears watching this. then joni mitchell, making her first grammy appearance and doing a stunning version of "both sides now" that again i think had everyone in the room and a lot of people around the country in tears. it was such an emphatic statement about the dominance of women in the music world right now. these performses are what a lot of people will remember. the woman who won the most awards was feeb by bridgers. she won for a duet with sza. one of the great talents coming up in rock music along with boy genus. the numbers don't matter as much as the totality of this night and what i meant for women and the mark they're leaving on the world of music. >> again, mika, like john said, the performances were really the

show-stoppers. it wasn't a lot of fluff. it wasn't a lot of hype. you just had incredible performances. of course, taylor swift is monumental, but miley cyrus, billie eilish. you go through them all. unbelievable talent. >> from joni mitchell to all of them, the performances were powerful, every single one. still ahead on "morning joe," a new national geographic documentary is exploring the untold story of the first black astronauts. we'll get a first look with one of the film's executive producers. we're back in 90 seconds. we're back in 90 seconds whoo! ♪♪ light work! ♪♪ next victims. ♪♪ you ready for this? ♪pump up the jam pump it up♪ there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add a new footlong sidekick. like the ultimate bmt with the new footlong pretzel. nothing like a sidekick that steps up in crunch time.

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you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... every epic footlong we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are. you don't have the right to drink from that fountain because that says white. don't even think about it. it was the same thing with nasa. i loved the space program. i wa enamored with it, but nobody doing that stuff looked like me. >> that was the clip from 2 new national geographic documentary "the space race," the untold story of the first black

astronauts premiering next monday. the film shines a light on a group of unknown american heroes who refused to keep their feet on the ground even as forces beyond gravity tried to keep them planted on earth. joining us now, within of the film's executive producers, former nasa astronaut leland melvin. thank you so much for coming on the show. tell us about "the space race." >> mika, thank you. it's such a movie that tells you the untold history. kind of like "hidden figures." ed dwight would have been the first black astronaut. john f. kennedy said you're going to be the first. when he was killed in 1963, the rest of the crew said we don't need your services anymore. he flipped from becoming an astronaut candidate to a world renowned sculptor. that legacy of him doing that foundational work to get myself

in space and guy bluford, all these people, working off his coattails. >> one of the things that strikes me about you doing this since you came behind them is there's always the story that many even to today, try and finish the path or finish the road that people ahead of us were, for whatever reason, not being able to do iit, in many cases, race. is that part of what motivated you to do this documentary? >> i think the big guest thing is how many have never heard of ed white, charley bolden. they need to be motivated to see themselves possibly going to marches one day. the most diverse teams give you the best solutions. we need everyone at the table to help us from a technological standpoint, helping us save our planet, helping us get to the moon and mars and beyond. you need to know history. >> tell us the role that

michelle nichols played where she became such a leading figure. >> she was the chief communications officer of the starship enterprise. nasa hired her to be the voice of, hey, how are we going to get the next women and minorities. she canvassed the country going out to find those astronauts. even fred gregory saw that commercial and said if there are women like that in space, i want to be part of history. >> leland, my 8-year-old nephew is going to be so impressed we that we had a real astronaut on "morning joe." you, yourself, have logged over 500 hours in space and had a very illustrious career as an astronaut. how did that help you as you approached the older generation to get them to tell their stories? >> the biggest part is when i looked back at the planets going around every 90 minutes, seeing

a sunset and sunrise every 45 while working with people we used to fight against, russians and germans. i think we need to tell this story so more kids can see and believe it's possible for everyone. that's the biggest part. >> i love it. "the space race," the untold story of the first black astronauts premiers next monday. executive producer leland melvin, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning and sharing that with us. we also want to mention leland's book. it's entitled "chasing space, an astronaut's story of grit, grace and second chances." thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and thank you. >> this was fun. >> yes, it was. >> sort of a depressing way at times. fun, right? >> that does it for us this

morning. >> i don't know than heil had a good time, jonathan lemire. >> ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. e coverage in two minutes. wanna know why people are getting a covid-19 shot? i'm turning the big seven-o and getting back on the apps. ha ha ha. variants are out there... and i have mouths to feed. big show coming up, so we got ours and that blue bandage? never goes out of style. i prioritize my health... also, the line was short. didn't get a covid-19 shot in the fall? there's still time. book online or go to your local pharmacy.

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