disagree without being disagreeable. and i think that's one of the things that was so important, oftentimes, the image of black men in america is one where we have to either be completely in lockstep with one another, or oftentimes at odds. and this was a conversation that showed we don't always have to agree. but that has nothing to do with the fact that i still see you as my brother. and that superport. and >> if anything, all of our travels and conversations have been, timmy, an exercise in brotherhood. and no matter what is happening now, we know that our steps moving forward will be stronger together. to that, my brother, cheers to you. to brotherhood. and what's next. >> to brotherhood. indeed. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, and welcome to politicsnation. tonight's lead working for the weekend.

hello and welcome to this super bowl sunday edition of politicsnation. ahead of the big game tonight. our senate working overtime this weekend just cleared a major hurdle to getting a supplemental national security bill passed. after after a week of -- new republican engineer dysfunction in both chambers on border security, foreign aid and impeachment. or a push against the homeland security secretary mayorkas. that the house gop will repeat again this week with -- a razor- thin margin for defections. coaching this chaos from the sidelines of, course, is donald trump. in addition to pulling the gop's strings in congress, told

our campaign rally last night in south carolina that he was okay with -- whatever to our nato allies if they refuse to pay up the alliance. my msnbc sister joy reid joins me with her reaction to the news from the hill. in the campaign cash rail. and i'm proud to say her latest book on to civil rights movements on in uncertain titans. -- plus, you don't want to watch tonight's grip iron action without hearing my rise up call that the nfl should keep making all the right moves and keep moving away from the right wing. big game tonight, big show. right now. before we start some breaking news before i go to joy reid, the pentagon says this afternoon, secretary of defense lloyd austin is back in the

hospital with a possible bladder issue. according to the press secretary, the deputy secretary of defense and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff have been notified, and the secretary is retaining the functions and duties of his office. austin had previously undergone surgery to treat prostate cancer, we'll have more information as the story develops. back to politics. joining me now, my colleague, my little sister, joy reid. host of the readout here on msnbc. and author of this brilliant new book, medgar and merlino. but the life and love of civil rights luminaries medgar and morally ever. 's sister joy, i want to leave a lot of time to get into your new book on medgar and myrlie as you might expect, we might start off tonight -- with the

likely nominee for president, who was repeatedly expressed warm regards for russia's president as he conducts a brutal invasion of a u.s. ally, in terms of ukraine. the last night of the campaign, this is what he said last night. >> one of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, well, sir, if we don't pay, and were attacked by russia, will you protect us? i said you didn't pay? you delinquent? >> he said, yes, let's say that happened. no, i would not protect you. in fact, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. >> trump's comments come as the senate is working on super bowl sunday. to try to pass a military aid package before ukraine's -- both the white house and the secretary general of nato have warned trump's comments are dangerous to american soldiers

and our national security. your reaction tonight,? joy >> first of, all it is interesting to me that over the past 24 hours we've been spending a lot of time talking about where the other guy is too old. that one is a mad men. and i mean, to be honest with, you what donald trump is essentially saying is that he wants to extort nato abrogate a treaty that the united states is duty bound, treaty bound, to abide by. and so, basically that's world war iii. because if what he's saying is that he is gonna pull a tucker carlson and like tucker carlson indulge vladimir putin as tucker did in a 70 minute interview in which he spoke three times and let let repetition lecture him about their right to take over whatever country they want. donald trump agrees with tucker comes right after that and says that he would encourage putin to expand his military attacks

beyond ukraine. to attack nato countries. i don't know who's gonna tell donald trump but somebody might want to let him know nato is it something he could just blow off. that would be world war three. >> absolutely. and he said, in straight out, language i'm not even paraphrasing, let putin do what he has to do. trump also mocked nikki haley's husband who serving an active duty deployment for the south carolina army national guard in africa. her husband and president biden have since condemned trump's comments. do you see's comments causing him any blow back in a state that's home to military installations? talk about south carolina. >> not among his base. it's a cult. and donald trump has no respect for the united states military, no respect for the people who serve he thinks they're suckers and losers. that's not me saying that, that's what he said.

they're suckers and losers. he didn't want to stand around veterans who are disabled. he did want them around him at all. he dedicated john mccain, service, he doesn't respect the military. and yet -- >> you made a statement at a military cemetery. >> yes he did. and john kelly, not a nice guy, john kelly, not a good guy necessarily. but somebody who said, no, he doesn't respect the military because he served in the military as well as his son. he doesn't respect people who've died for the country. he doesn't respect that service at all. and yet you have people in the military who love him more than they love the constitution. and the thing that is so wild about donald trump's call is that, no matter how much he denigrate them, no hat or how little he cares about them, all they want is whatever makes him happy whatever makes him happy, whatever makes him smile makes them smile. whatever makes him mad makes them at. they don't even have the asks. they don't have an agenda of things they. what they just wanted to be happy. they wanted to have what he wants as a job that he wants, not be prosecuted. get away with crimes.

it's so bad at this point that they're not even pretending they won't steal jobs, they want jobs to come back. because biden is giving them jobs. they don't care about jobs. they just care about him. police. >> they don't even want border security. >> they sure don't. >> as long as they feed his ego and treat him like he's a child, like a baby. >> as we mentioned earlier, i must also get your take on the recent role for president, biden's age pushed to top of the agenda. last week's report issued by all republican special counsel. declining to accuse biden of any wrongdoing in handling classified documents but at the same time, moving into his memory and mental state. i mean, how should the president be responding to this issue because i, for, one and i said on the show last night, i don't even understand why the question of the date of his son's death even comes up when talking about classified

documents. i'm being questioned by special counsel or someone in law enforcement. and then they ask me, the date of your mother's death was the most -- why would i remember that in the middle of that? >> also, by the way, donald trump do not recall was the majority of what he said every time he's been deposed. for the crimes that he's accused of. you know, not since ken starr has there been a more blatantly partisan agenda driven prosecutor working for the department of justice. this person seemed to be to be auditioning for a show on fox. rather than doing the job that he was hired by a democratic appointed, we don't know it is part affiliation, is but a democrat appointed by democrat. so i think that makes sense in his mind that he should appoint the farthest right wing republican trump guy to be the special prosecutor in this instance. page one he declares biden to be an egotistical says he thinks himself as an historic figure. will his historic figure. only 46 people have been president, he's.

president and he got more votes than any other president in history. he was also vice president to the first black president. he's historic figure, i think it's fair to say. and on page 60 goes adam for his memory. but the only thing you needed to say in those 400 pages is we saw, we looked into crimes, we didn't find any. we're not prosecuting him. he decided to editorialize the way james comey did. which is, it should be an allegation of his responsibilities that caused him to have some say in. there he's allowed to do it. i blame merrick garland. he never should've allowed this person to put this on edited draft out there. because it's clearly intended to hurt biden politically. let's set that aside, now let's talk about us, the media. because the media loves this story like nothing but the emails. donald trump is old. so is joe biden. they're both the same age statistically. 77 and 80, rounded up. the same age. and joe biden's acuity, you talk about that? we should have equal interest in talking about the guy who said that they're gonna blow off nato and let putin invade the entire west. because he conveyed whatever

nato country. wants the guy who thinks nikki haley naples or the same person, the media never covers that with the same excitement. that they get when it's democrat. and i just have to, say there is this seeming need to go after biden because donald trump is facing criminal prosecution. this is not a both and both sides situation. one of those facing criminal indictment. that doesn't mean you have to find something about the other guy. >> i say the other guy, president biden, 70 night infrastructure bill i did, inflation reduction, yeah. this is what i did as an old guy. >> the other piece about, it just a throw in one more, peace look, there's a lot to criticize president biden. it's fair to be critical of his policies. he's had a lot of issues i think on gaza he's faced tons of criticism, by the way he's handled it, there are things that actually harming his potential reelect that being one of them. but the idea that the most salient thing about him is his age, you don't think that's the most salient think about someone who literally seems confused half the time.

he doesn't seem to know what city season. he doesn't he thinks he ran against barack obama for president. if it salient for one guy it's salient for the other. >> absolutely, i have to get to this book you gave me, when it's a great book. your new book medgar and myrlie. because i don't know how you found the time, first of all, to do the immense amount of research that went into it on possibly the most on some of civil rights movement leading figures. medgar evers, the naacp's -- first field secretary in mississippi. and his amazing wife, who have come to, no myrlie. and i've had the fortune of getting to know and working with them through the years. i did the 60th anniversary last year in jackson, where you and spent time for this book. but they brought me to the place where medgar was assassinated by a white supremacist 63. and we're like people don't know, the famous march on washington in 63, part of the

impetus was the assassination of medgar evers just two months before. which outrage a lot of people and made them want to march. why this book, why the? subject why now? joy >> you just really give the answer. because people have exhumed him, they've excised him, i should say from the narrative of the civil rights movement. not only that, the march on washington was a march on jfk, we talked with a lot it was a march for jfk, to march on him, why? he wasn't moving fast enough on the bill that he promised on june 11th 1963. the civil rights bill. who had been pushing some of the hardest push for that bill was medgar evers, the field secretary. constantly peppering the white house with telegrams. saying you need to send the national guard down here. you need to do something. these people are terrified. they can't register to vote. we need our civil rights and mississippi. he finally starts using john f. kennedy, medgar evers language, he promises the civil rights -- bill that he slow walks it. and that is the reason why

there needed to be a march. but the impetus is, as you said, was the inspiration of medgar evers assassination, proud of that is because when he finally gets that bill drafted, he brings myrlie evers and her children and medgar evers only -- older brother charles -- and heads were copy of that bill. that was the gift that he gave her. because he knew -- >> and myrlie evers -- -- became chairman of the naacp, and she never stopped the backbone of our movement as always been the. women greta's got, king marley evers, -- never get the credit. that they should. you're doing this in this book. joy reid, thank, you the book is called medgar and myrlie. it is out everywhere books are sold. make sure you get a copy. and don't just for black history month, its american history. after the break, house democrats are laser focused on winning back the house this year. my next guest will tell you what it will take. and we're following breaking

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welcome back. much of our national attention is glued to the tightening presidential race, democrats hope to retake the majority of the u.s. house in november. needing to win just a handful of races to do so. their first big test will be this tuesday. joining me now is congresswoman susan del bunny. democrat of washington state. and chair of the democratic congressional campaign committee. thank you for being with us tonight, congresswoman. democrats just need to flip five congressional seats to retake the house in november. you have a special congressional election in new york this week, which will get

to. what other races do you think democrats have the best chance of seizing the majority in putting the speaker's gavel in the hands of congressman hakeem jeffries, an ally who selected you personally to chair the dccc. >> well, it's great to be here and, as you said, we only need five more seats to take back the majority. and we have incredible opportunities all across the country. we just announced last week our red to blue candidates, candidates who are ready to flip districts from red to blue. 17 and they're everywhere from new york in california to montana and colorado and texas. and iowa. nebraska. we have incredible candidates. and they want to come to congress to govern. and that's in huge contrast to the chaos, the dysfunction, and

extremism we're seeing from republicans. >> i was gonna say that, to govern, that's something new in this cycle. ahead of the senate gop killing them, the bipartisan border in friday deal last week, speaker mike johnson had already said it would be, quote, dead on arrival in the house. with republican majority leaders steve scalise declaring that it would not be voted on the chamber. in the background of all of this, of course, was donald trump. who railed against the deal. house conservatives threatening consequences for johnson over any aid to ukraine. what's your take on all of this chaos, congresswoman? >> well, it's been chaos since day one of this congress from those speaker 15 rounds of speaker elections over and over again. brink of a default. brink of a shutdown of the federal government. over and over.

this is who they. are there incapable of governing. and they can't even agree with themselves. so, we need someone and we need a president and a congress that are going to continue to work together to govern. we have a president who's willing to do that. but we don't have a house of representatives. so, we have the majority, when we have speaker hakeem jeffries, we will be in a position to be able to move legislation, and we're gonna continue to fight. we can make a big difference right now and continue to make sure we're doing everything possible to help govern and move important legislation like a security package. >> let's pivot from electoral strategy and top issues ahead of november. coming out of your conference -- retreat last week, reports that some democrats are worried that abortion has yet to become the driving issue for their voters that many thought it would be. instead, immigration and border security have surged as that

fight rages in congress. some for the democrats aren't prepared for it in key districts. as you try to retake the house, what do you say to voters asking why they should be voting for democrats in this election. >> well, on the issue of abortion, it's actually been an issue in every single election since november of 2022. in places all over the country, kansas, ohio, virginia, we continue to see voters turn out even in greater numbers to stand up for reproductive freedom. they've seen what's at stake. they know republicans want to put in place the national abortion ban. this has been an incredibly important issue. and i think it's gonna continue to be an incredibly important issue all the way through this november. so, people know what's at stake, and they know republicans want to take away their rights, their freedoms, they aren't willing to stand up for democracy. and that means a terrible future. >> even in the immigration issue, the democrats did give a

lot of what they had claimed they wanted, some of us felt maybe too much, but understood white had to be done. and they still wouldn't do it. and of course, you and i were taking pictures at the completed wall that donald trump built that the mexicans paid for. oh, yeah he didn't get that done. why would you bring that immigration issue up? but before we go, and i'm out of time, we are watching a tight congressional race in tuesday's special election to replace ousted republican george santos, a race that has been cast and an educated democrats possible fortunes in november. a new poll shows democrat tom suozzi with a slim four point lead over republican mazi pillar. just inside the margin of error, how important is wishing the winning this race to the dccc? >> we said that republican want a five seat majority, if we win this race, then we have a four seat majority.

but we have an incredible candidate in tom suozzi. a former mayor, county executive, and a former congressman from new york three. and the people of new york three deserve a representative they can trust. and he's a proven leader. he is someone who is focused on getting things done. i got a chance to work with him when he was a former congressman. and he was very focused on working to find solutions, getting things across the finish line. so, he's done an incredible job. i was talking to voters, there's a lot of enthusiasm there. he's working hard all the way through 9:00 on tuesday. >> as you say, he was the congressman in that district. so they at least know his background other than the republican that was booted out of that seat, santos, they just discover all these things about. >> the republican candidate running right now is nowhere to be seen. so, folks know tom suozzi is there, talking to voters, answering questions. i'll be really excited to see him back. >> congresswoman suzan delbene, thank you for being with us.

coming up, the chiefs and the 49ers are one hour away from the big game, and while the nation will be cheering together, i'm cheering on the nfl itself after years of calling for change within the league. that story is next, in my rise up. my rise up. ♪♪ we're building a better postal service. all parts working in sync to move your business forward. with a streamlined shipping network. and new, high-speed processing and delivery centers. for more value. more reliability. and more on-time deliveries. the united states postal service is built for how you business. and how you business is with simple, affordable and reliable shipping. usps ground advantage. ma, ma, ma— ( clears throat ) for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops. with two times more menthol per drop,

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two leading candidates for senate. two very different visions for california. steve garvey, the leading republican, is too conservative for california. he voted for trump twice and supported republicans for years, including far right conservatives. adam schiff, the leading democrat, defended democracy against trump and the insurrectionists. he helped build affordable housing, lower drug costs, and bring good jobs back home. the choice is clear. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. ♪ ♪ is this yours?

you ready? surprise! i don't think you can clear this. i got this. it's yours now. for many years in my capacity as head of national action network, i have challenged in the national football league to address issues of racism and lack of diversity within the sport. on super bowl sunday, in the nfl's biggest night, i am taking a moment to give the lead credit for some progress that it has made.

i and averse have asked the nfl to add more black coaches. this year, there will be nine coaches of color in place for the 2024 season, including six black head coaches. we have asked the nfl to diversify their front offices and staff, in a sport where the majority of players are black and now a record 51% of nfl team employees identify as people of color or women. and the number of executives of color has risen from 13% in 2020 to 22% in 2023. and we asked the nfl to take a stand for racial justice. rather than punish people that speak out. during tonight's game, -- will run an ad featuring civil rights icon attorney doctor clarence jones, who was martin luther king junior speech writer and personal attorney. he will be speaking out against

antisemitism and hate. here is a sneak preview. >> sometimes, i imagine what i would write today for my dear friend martin. >> the steps the nfl has taken not only make the sport more inclusive, it makes the lead more popular. nfl viewership is up 7% from a year ago. the best figure since 2015. this year's big game is more than an athletic event. it is a cultural phenomenon, thanks in part to a halftime show headlined by usher and curated by jay-z, and the high- profile relationship between chiefs tight end travis kelce and popstar taylor swift. it's hard to imagine the same level of excitement at the nfl came to a noisy right wing critics, demanding the sport remain stuck in the past.

but let me be clear. there is still more work for the nfl to do in order to build a lead reflective of its players and its fans. and you bet i will be there every step of the way to rise up and hold them accountable. but as we gear up for kickoff, we should all take a moment to applaud them for the progress they have started to make, by cheering them on to do more. we'll be right back. right bac. . it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. ♪ today, my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health.

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welcome back to politicsnation. let's now bring in my political panel, two former congress members donna edwards, democrat of maryland, and david jolly, republican turned independent, a florida. donna, president biden and his staff have been working to tamp down concerns surrounding his age, following the special counsel report released this week, absolving biden of any wrongdoing in a classified documents case. but including details about biden's memory and ability to recall a specific dates. meanwhile, biden chose not to do a super bowl interview that would likely have come out this afternoon, giving him an opportunity to communicate with a very large audience. his advisers said he is skipping the opportunity because americans are fatigued

by politics. what do you make of this decision not to do an interview today, donna? >> well, the president didn't do an interview previously during the super bowl. i don't think it's a really big deal. i think people want to focus on the game. i know i'm looking forward to the game. especially to usher at halftime. but look, i think this special counsel report was gratuitous and intentional. i think i've been talking with a lot of democrats who feel the same way and that it was unnecessary, going way beyond the bounds of where the special counsel report needed to be, so that it lost the big headline, it cleared the president of any responsibility or criminal liability when it came to the documents case. and i think, look, i think that the president needs to be out there are more with people and engaged on the occasions i've been around the president, he

is deeply engaged. he is engaged in policy. -- -- he is personable, i think the american people will get that. i don't know that you necessarily get that when you sit down in an interview or do a press conference. do i want to see the president now more and more and more? absolutely, because i think it'll serve his interest really well. >> david, on the republican campaign trail, things have taken, frankly, an ugly turn. at a rally yesterday in south carolina, trump mocked the absence of nikki haley's husband, who is on a yearlong military deployment in africa. the haley campaign seized on the comments as the latest example of trump's disrespect for service members, going all the way back to his treatment of john mccain. not only was trump's comment, comments hurtful, they seemed unnecessary. after all, haley lost in nevada last week to the none of these

candidates option. and she trails badly in the polls, even in her home state. we have seen trump's self destructive street before. isn't it still one of his biggest political witnesses -- weaknesses? >> it is in a general election. there are very few persuadable voters. not independents, persuadable voters are turned off by trump's boorish behaviors and his offensive comments. what he said about nikki haley's husband was offensive, it was disgusting. but it was not surprising. county in the group with zero sympathy for nikki haley. because the reason donald trump gets away with it is because for years, people like nikki haley normalized his behavior when she served at his leisure as a u.n. secretary. she normalized donald trump is a political candidate. knowing what she still knows now. sorry, nikki haley, you don't get a grievance about this. but i would, say why donald trump is doing this? he really has to go nuclear and south carolina to put an end to nikki haley's race.

he needs to begin to focus on joe biden as well. he knows that. i think he knows donald trump does if he can deliver a humiliating defeat to nikki haley in her home state, i'm not sure she makes good on her promise to stay until super tuesday. and if he dies, most pundits and observers would say, why? why are you staying in, nikki haley? there is not a pathway to win. >> don, i have to ask you about larry hogan announcing his senate bid this week. it's been reported that senate minority leader mitch mcconnell worked behind the scenes to convince the former maryland governor to run for the retiring democratic senate -- senator ben carson's seat. you know maryland politics better than anyone. what do you make of his chances of winning? what does this mean for democrats's hopes of keeping control of the senate chamber in 2024? >> this was a huge recruiting coup for mitch mcconnell. because larry hogan had

previously put the senate seat off to the side and said that he wasn't running. look, larry hogan is a very popular two term governor in the state of maryland, which, we often describe as a blue state. i think it makes the race far more competitive. it's really going to matter who democrats choose as their nominee. and it's going to have to be somebody who either has deep pockets themselves or has the ability to raise a lot of money, because republicans are going to be putting a ton of money into the small state of maryland. we haven't had a competitive republican candidate for senate in 44 years. we haven't had a republican in the senate for 44 years. and i think that maryland democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1 in our state. but it's going to take a lot of work to get the job done. >> david, this tuesday, new york's third congressional district will hold a special

election to replace george santos after he was ousted from the house last year. if democrat tom suozzi wins this race, it would further shrink speaker mike johnson's slim gop majority. what are your predictions on the race? could we be witnessing the beginning of the end of johnson's speakership in this election? >> with or without the seat, mike johnson is facing a tough moment in about three weeks. the only way the government stays open and our nations priorities are met is for mike johnson to allow for a vote on the budget and on foreign aid, that democrats then deliver the votes for. republicans won't. it's a kevin mccarthy moment. i don't know that he has the steeliness to do it. but i'll tell you about the importance of tuesday, reverend, is this. i was a special election candidate myself in a swing state that obama had won twice, i had won twice as a republican. and what it is is it's a proving ground for the national

parties to message test ahead of november, which is why you see the issue of immigration being the issue that, race even though they are not on the border. the national authorities are dying to test their messages and they are hopeful, both parties are hopeful they have a clear message to take the november. this goes to why hogan may have gotten in the senate race as well. republicans are growing optimistic about november. not just the white house, but down-ballot. you are seeing in swing races like this, santos's district race as well as the hogan race, republicans are making some bold moves. democrats, though, keep showing up to beat back republicans and win special elections. that will likely happen on tuesday. >> thank you. former congresswoman donna edwards and former congressman david jolly. we are following breaking news out of houston. the police department is holding a press conference to give an update on a shooting this afternoon at pastor joel

or scenes liquid church. according to police, a five- year-old is in critical condition and another man has been hospitalized. the shooter has been killed. authorities say there is no further danger to the public. we will continue to monitor the story and bring you more information as we learned. back to politics, joining me now is new york times columnist and msnbc political analyst charles blow. charles, you know i am an avid reader of yours. let's start with presidential politics and the issue of president biden's age. after the release of these counsel's report last week, many black democrats, including current and former lawmakers, rallied to the president's defense and argue the report was politically motivated. as you will know, black support for biden has eroded over the past several years, for many reasons. but on this particular issue, do you think it is a concern

for the black community? >> the answer is complicated because it is both yes and no. what we have to always talk about when we talk about black voters is that they are varied, they are not monolithic. there are all kinds of splits. one of those splits is generational. for some black voters, particularly the ones quoted in the stories i read, but these were older people. these were people that were stalwart democrats. they looked at this as an attack on biden we and a problematic one from the people it was coming from. there are some other voters, maybe not nearly as many, you know, not the majority by any stretch, but for whom the message about aging has resonated because it overlaps with other issues they may have with biden. so the answer to that is both yes and no. there is a lot of black people in america. there are a lot of black opinions in america. for some of them, the age issue

is resonating. for me, maybe i'm one of the older ones, because -- almost 54, 53 years old, and, you know, i don't care if he can't remember his own name. i don't need to like this man, i don't need to have -- i don't need to do any of that. i need to vote for the protection of my family, my community, the country. and that is what matters to me. i think we fall into a trap. we try to defend joe biden or try to defend any candidate from any attack. -- position. >> we know how old he was when we voted for him in 2020. >> that's right, almost as old. >> talking about issues that almost -- also matter, though. this morning, president biden held a call with israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, during which the white house says he urged israel to consider the safety of palestinian civilians and

upcoming military operations. this issue of the war in gaza has created a split among democrats. this week, he wrote an op-ed for the new york times where you talked about the dangers of a political rift between blacks and jews, who have stood together in this country, going back to the beginnings of the civil rights movement. how can we hold this alliance together? at the same time disagree on certain aspects. i stood for when israel was attacked. but i also think what netanyahu has done is wrong. how do we hold this coalition together? why is it so important in your view? >> one of the jewish leaders i quoted in that piece about how difficult it is in this moment for people to -- complex and sometimes competing ideas in their heads at the same time. it is perfectly logical to take the position that i've taken that hamas is a terrorist

organization, that it is trying to get rid of his real, and that the events of october 7th were horrific, ghastly, that all the hostages need to be returned. and at the same time, you can say that absolutely this is too many people, innocent people, children being killed in gaza. you cannot sustain the war and operate the war in that way. one of the people i talked to said this about the war, he says, first you have to ask yourself, is it a just war? then you have to ask yourself, if it is a just war, can it be operated justly? he cannot be conducted justly? and on the second point, we may have some falling down because of all these -- i believe there is some falling down because of all the people being killed. you can hold both of those things in your head at the same time, not hate anyone for doing it. and you need to be able to do that on both sides of this debate. once people are able to do that, then the fracture or rift becomes less of an issue.

because everyone is operating from a humanistic perspective. >> moral consistency. you cannot just be one side moral, then the other side taking a different standing. let's turn to the immigration issue. president biden is reportedly considering taking executive action to deter illegal migration across the southern border after congress has failed to pass legislation on border security. democrats have been trying to negotiate with republicans on this issue, even offering concessions that are unpopular with their own base, including many black and brown voters. concessions republicans have rejected. i might add, and do you think the party is in a strong position on immigration right now? >> no one is in a strong position on immigration right. now there are just too many people flowing across the southern border. even if you believe in asylum,

the america as we have it right now, the legislation we have in place cannot deal with it. republicans blocked it on purpose to hurt the country, but the pain so that the benefit would not be down to president biden. yes, everybody is in a bad spot on this. and there is no way to talk about it in ways that make you look good and the other guy looked that. because the entire apparatus has failed. republicans in this moment happened to be the people who are pushing the failure forward. but until we get opposition that says we have to figure out how to stop this much of a heavy flow, no one can brag on this point. >> i started, i'm an avid reader of yours, and sometimes i read your column in my speeches. and half the time, i give you credit. charles blow, thank you for being with us. up next, my final thoughts.

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that does it for me. thanks for watching. i will see you back here next weekend at five pm eastern. right now, it's the sunday show with jonathan capehart. the whole world is watching. in a rare sunday vote, a critical aid bill for ukraine