trump's comments about nato. white house reporter for "the wall street journal," ken thomas, thank you, as always, for joining us this morning. we appreciate it. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. jam-packed "morning joe" starts right now. what's going on? >> first and goal. mahomes, jackpot, kansas city. >> the kansas city chiefs beat the san francisco 49ers in an overtime thriller to win their third super bowl in the last five years, with quarterback patrick mahomes earning his third super bowl mvp. what a game. we have a lot of tired faces for you this morning. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, february 12th. let's bring in the host of "pablo torre finds out" on

meadowlark media, espn's pablo torre. okay, guys. >> i mean. >> it was actually a really good game. i'm going to let it go. >> it was a classic. it was a classic from the beginning. the teams were set. unbelievable. pablo, it's so fascinating. you know, i was, like you, lock locking the chiefs' defense being the key. so many things being the key. the end of the day, it was a young quarterback versus a guy who has been there before. what a huge difference it made. mahomes, we're not saying he is brady because he's not brady yet, but, man, you could put him in a handful, maybe three or four quarterbacks, like montana, brady, that could have done that last night. it's just extraordinary. >> joe, he is -- patrick mahomes is the greatest quarterback i have ever seen, and that's, of course, with deference to jonathan lemire's beloved, mike barnicle's beloved tom brady,

right? the guy who has won it all. what patrick mahomes has done is turned the super bowl into his own residency. he's been there four times, won three of them, two in a row. on friday, i talked to you about my personal philosophical conflict between collective greatness and the individualist great man theory of football, which i'm tempted into. that's what we saw. we saw patrick mahomes get the ball with less than two minutes left in overtime. an all-time classic. no hyperbole here. one of the greatest and longest games we have ever seen, and patrick mahomes does this. it's the guy who reshapes history because he is just that good. >> you know, one of my favorite stories, super bowl stories, is the montana/john candy story, which i've retold around my hold house several times. for those who haven't heard it a

thousand times -- >> it's a great one. >> yeah, you had the 49ers backed up against the bengals. they had, what, 90 yards to go to win the super bowl. all the guys in the san francisco huddle were, like, freaked out and nervous. they looked at joe montana, who was looking overhead. he goes, hey. they turn around. he goes, it's john candy! they all looked at each other and said, well, if he's not worried, we're not worried. of course, he wasn't because he knew he'd take them 90 yards in the last minute, and they were going to win. i've never felt that way. you know, greatness is a quarterback walking into seemingly insurmountable circumstances. you're looking at the quarterback going, oh, he's going to do this. >> yeah, i'd like that guy. >> he knew it. you knew it. i knew it. we knew. >> we all picked the chiefs for this reason. typically a recipe for us to face plant, to step on a fake. that's how good he is.

he made us look good. >> thank god. the end of the day, lemire, it is all about us. >> true. >> jonathan lemire, again, i just -- you can't say enough about patrick mahomes. these were two evenly matched teams. it was a great 49ers team. the chiefs had trouble through the year. they were fighting each other on the sidelines. rice is screaming. kelce, i still can't believe he went to andy reid and bumped him. i mean, he obviously didn't go to high school in northwest florida because your head would have been taken off if you did that to a coach up there. but they were a mess throughout the year. they're kind of a mess on the sidelines. they still won. >> yeah, the word is inevitable. patrick mahomes is inevitable. he's reached the threshold of greatness where you know he is going to do it. you know he is going to do it. no, he's not tom brady yet, but i have to say, he has a path. a long way ahead of him, he could enter that conversation someday.

this was not a great game to start. it was very sloppy. the 49ers defense was excellent. it was 10-3 at the half. san francisco should have been up more than that. then it picked up, and we had a classic fourth quarter. the other side of this, the 49ers. brock purdy played pretty well. christian mccaffrey, other than the fumble, he did well. the mistake was they got the ball first in overtime. give the other team the ball first, and see what you need. this is kyle shanahan, not one, not two, but the third time he has blown a ten-point lead in the super bowl. what a devastating one if you're san francisco. >> if it's not happening this year, then when would be the question you ask if you're kyle shanahan's dad, anyone who cares about kyle shanahan. for people who don't know the lord now, shanahan has the reputation, the behavior of a

choker. blew it against john's patriots, 28-3. this was another game where it looked like he was the character in the horror movie. they wanted the ball first in overtime, new rules inspired because of what the chiefs did or didn't get to do against the bills. that's why they had the new overtime rules. everybody gets a shot now. patrick mahomes went second, ask be he turned into the guy chasing the inevitable, yeah, horror movie villain down the hallway. it was like -- watching mahomes operate on the 49ers' defense, which was excellent, it was like -- i can only imagine what it's like to be on the niners defense. it was being awake for open heart surgery on yourself. he was clinical, surgical. look, the number one thing i think about when i just reflect on a year at the end of a football season is how this is the most random sport. it's a sport where the ball is literally oblong. it's meant to be unpredictable.

it's meant to be like a roulette table. you don't know. it's a coin flip every time. but patrick mahomes and andy reid and travis kelce, what they have done is made the unpredictable, the random, predictable. it's something we haven't seen since brady's patriots. they're a dynasty now. they've done it. >> they are a dynasty. also, the niners are so good. you talk about their defense. >> they are. >> i mean, throughout the game, bosa was just extraordinary. so disciplined on the outside. they're an amazing football team, but, you know, pablo, this reminds me of the great steeler/cowboys matchups in the '70s. you had the two best teams going, and they left it all on the field. super bowl xiii, along with this one, probably the greatest super bowl of all time.

but you do, you have the inevitability. football, it is true, anything can happen on any given sunday, and it always does, right? but you're right, though, this is -- what was so exciting to me about this super bowl was you had the two best teams playing, by far. you had two extraordinary organizations playing, and, yet again, the only thing that separated them was, like the guy who one day may be called g.o.a.t. >> yeah. joe, when i think of what andy reid has done, also, right, with this kansas city chiefs franchise, he wasn't the obvious guy to be the belichick to someone's brady. i'm going to keep torturing this patriots metaphor here. >> you're torturing lemire. >> it's true. i want to give a bit of credit here to the quality of this game.

i didn't know, when i was watching it, does america broadly, the 100 and bazillion million people watching this game, do they appreciate the defensive slugfest we got? this is not what the chiefs were known for. they should be now after watching the secondary shut down a really good niners offense. it had that feeling of a prestige drama, like the tension ratcheting. i was like, i hope people at home under the nuances, the subtleties. 57 yard kick that was basically just a bullet down the middle. >> hammered. >> yeah. >> it was crazy. >> it was those little things. the difference in the game was also special teams mistakes. niners missed an extra point. the muffle off the guy's foot. this wasn't even a great chiefs' team compared to other years. kelce had an up and down season. they traded tyreek hill two

years ago and won two straight super bowls. this team is probably only going to get better. they'll add weapons. they are the gold standard right now, and they also have that ability, with mahomes under center, the other team looks across the field and goes, we have to be perfect or we can't win. it's the same thing -- that's the other brady comparison. >> horrifying. >> if you give him a chance, he'll beat you. the niners gave him a chance. >> yeah. even when, you know, he was blitzed -- >> he scrambles. >> makes the play. >> he usually read the blitzes . if the blitz came from the right, he opened a path. it's hard to stop him. now, ten minutes in, john heilemann, we have not said taylor swift's name yet. >> there it is. >> finally. >> there it is. >> omnipresent.

>> can i have it? >> there you go. >> thank you. >> do you think taylor will be okay if i wear this? >> taylor made it in there. you can talk about the game if you'd like, too. i thought it was -- i don't know if you saw the very end, but a really, really moving scene when kelce and taylor swift met up on the field afterwards. really beautiful, i thought. >> i could have done without his rendition of viva las vegas. >> yeah. >> other than that, yes. clearly, for those who are cynical, for those who think it's just another product of taylor swift's plan for world domination, she has a very colorful dating history. he's obviously a superhero. there are those who are cynical. i say, look at the love on display here. i will say this, too, pablo torre, the love on display. it feels very real. i'll say, whether you are a cynic or believe in the romantic side, the prospect of the chiefs

teed up for the three-peat. anybody who is a hater of taylor swift is going to be dealing with this for another year, baby. it's going to be kelce, swift, mahomes for a year, until this time next year. >> i want to thank at the end, john inspired me, i want to thank president biden for the rigged script, in coordination with pfizer. >> rigged it. >> this was an all-timer, just a masterful psy-op by president biden. >> i want to say -- >> let's show this really quickly, elise. for people that don't get this, and it was the first thousand or so after he put this up, they were like, what is this? >> just like we drew it up. >> this is mocking the ultra maga freaks that were saying that this was all rigged from

the very beginning. this is him mocking the snowflakes, just like we drewitt drew it up, elise. >> all my intel on this is if you are willing to hug a smelly football player after he's won the super bowl, that's true love. that's true love. >> there you go. >> i think you're being a little unfair to kyle shanahan. i still think he is the best coach in the nfl. >> there it is. >> i don't know. >> look how far he took brock purdy this year, and who knows what is next. >> san francisco had to close the game, though. they gave the chiefs too much breathing room. >> it was surprising, a lot of mistakes. again, you don't usually see that from the 49ers, jonathan. a lot of off sides, penalties, fumbles. i mean, they really hurt themselves time and time again. >> yeah, the killer mccaffrey

fumble early, though the chiefs had one of those, too. we mentioned the two special teams blunders, which they knew would be an advantage. chiefs are money on special teams. purdy was solid. late in the game, the chiefs got to him. he missed some throws. the niners, it was not the offense's fault. maybe you say they should have gone to mccaffrey a little more. it was just that they didn't close the door. that's greatness. we're going to repeat ourselves here, but mahomes has reached that point where he is now, joe, a top three qb, probably of all time. you know, his arrow is pointing up. he's only 28 years old. >> yeah, i mean, other than montana and that other guy. >> brady. >> yeah. >> espn's pablo torre. >> hold on one second. hold on one second. >> yeah, okay. >> we didn't even talk about ads. not a lot of great ads. there were a couple of them. >> more usher. >> or usher, shirtless usher. >> roller skate. >> he almost fell. >> we have to close this out

here. really quickly, john heilemann, we'll go with you, shirtless usher. >> shirtless and roller skating usher. >> shirtless, roller skating usher. >> i was reminded last night of, not of usher's greatness, but of the fact that it's always been hard to tell the difference between a lot of usher songs. he's not had an album in eight years. a brand-new year came out a couple days ago, right? this is not going to go down as -- unlike the game, which according to pablo and joe at least, this won't be one of the best halftime shows. usher is not a guy without talent, but he had really good guest stars that helped him maybe connect with the younger generation. this felt a little -- he felt a little more tired than wired, i would say, in terms of his demographic he is hitting here. a lot of the younger folks were saying, who is this man? >> who is this man? why is he shirtless?

why is he roller skating? >> that's correct. >> it's ludacris. >> you have just explained exactly what people in los angeles face with heilemann in his airbnb. who is this man? why is he shirtless? why is he on roller skates? >> i'm wrapping this up. >> quickly, i have two more things. >> let's put it that way. >> elise, did you see any commercials that stuck out? >> i liked the uber eats, jen aniston. it was good. >> pretty good. >> it was cute. >> hold on. >> come on, if you're going to -- >> yeah. >> give the schwimmer a little credit there. >> robert kraft's ad, extraordinary ad about supporting jews who are victims

of anti-semitism. that was a really, really moving, classic commercial. the painting commercial. finally, pablo, before we let you go, one final thing. mika thinks, oh, super bowl, we don't have to talk sports anymore on "morning joe" for a while. pablo, one day until pitchers and catchers report. >> there it is. yes, mika! >> boom. >> it's only just begun. our segments have only begun to become way too long, yes. just starting. >> thank you. >> pablo, do you have a pick on the eve of pitchers and catchers reporting? who is going to win the world series this year? >> in honor of john lemire sitting right here, i'm glad to inform america the new york yankees will be world series winners. >> come on! >> that's it. >> espn's pablo torre. >> before i rip my shirt off. >> bye. >> roller skates are outside. >> kept his shirt on. >> pablo did? >> for now. didn't do any roller skating.

it was really good. that's how pablo, you don't know this, but that was his background on the sports reporters. >> yeah. >> you'd have our good friend mike lupica, and when they introduced pablo, it was to get a younger demographic. he'd come out shirtless. he would have his roller skates on and would roll right up on the stage and sit down. >> roller skates. >> talk about the nba. >> thank you, pablo. ahead in 60 seconds, a lot more to get to on this monday morning. donald trump's staggering comments encouraging russia to attack our nato allies. >> he did that, and he did that and justified it by making up a conversation. >> we're back in one minute.

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nato allies. during a campaign speech in south carolina on saturday, trump referred to the conversation he allegedly had with a fellow world leader while he was president. >> by the way, it was one of those crazy, and someone stood up and said, "sir, sir," and he said they were from a big country. sir, sir, if they don't pick -- if we don't pay, what will you do, sir? nobody is saying that! >> anywho. >> what a jackass. how stupid would you have to be in the audience to go, oh, well, did they really say that? that's amazing. i didn't believe a big country president would say that. >> anyhow. >> it's just stupid. like, he is now so desperate to support vladimir putin and undercut america's allies in europe, he's making up a sir story. it's not even a good lie for

donald trump. like, you can tell he's losing it. like, he's losing his touch. this is when elvis couldn't even get -- he's so fat, he couldn't even get the scarves from around his neck to throw to the audience. he kind of sat there, looked down, and sang. remember, heilemann, when they had to hold the microphone for fat elvis when he was playing piano? >> 100%, yes. >> he lost all his moves. this is donald trump. it's a story that a third grader would go, why is he lying to me? you know, the people in the audience, they can't be that dumb to say, oh, big country person said, sir? this guy will do anything to justify defending and supporting vladimir putin and getting us all ready for -- this is the dangerous part. when he is president again, he's getting us ready for him to be

an autocrat. >> sure. >> a dictator and a guy who is going to tell vladimir putin, sweep in. >> play it. >> you want to play it? i thought my imitation sounded great. >> just stick with joe's. it's the best version. >> play it. >> let's do this. >> one of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, well, sir, if we don't pay and we're attacked by russia, will you protect us? i said, you didn't pay, you're delinquent? he said, yes. let's say that happened. no, i would not protect you. in fact, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. you have to pay. you have to pay your bills. >> again -- >> it's like his, "you're fired." >> it's just stupid because it's a lie. nobody said that. what president? did president angela merkel say that, donald? did president theresa may say

that? did president macron? who said that? i mean, john heilemann, i'm serious. it's so stupid. the level of stupidity, like, to actually believe that story and cheer for it, really, it makes my teeth hurt. so mind-bogglingly bad. >> to say it out loud, heads of state, even of some big countries, small countries, they don't refer to each other as sir, as if he's, like, the white house usher. not the way they talk to each other. i think, joe, it is an interesting metric you'vevocabu. as we chart trump's decline, we should monitor the quality of the lies. they become more transparent and dumber, that's one sign of terminal decline. another is going to be when the nicknames start to go. when he starts, like, coming up with -- when he refers to joe biden as cheery joe or, you know, he'll have bad nicknames.

they'll decline, and that's another sign trump is reaching ineptitude. >> this is fat elvis at the piano. that's where we are. >> next stop, in front of the televisions in graceland. >> it'll happen. that's coming. >> let's bring in msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. and former supreme allies commander of nato, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis, chief international analyst for nbc news. >> admiral, it's not like donald trump is trying to prepare us for the horrible things he'll do when he is president. he is. he's praising orban. he says, we need a strongman. he is telling us that. he says he's going to be a dictator on day one. he's telling us that. here, he's telling us he is going to encourage vladimir

putin, a former russian soviet enemy, vladimir putin to just take over not only nato but other -- i mean, not only ukraine but other nato countries. talk about the dangers of this kind of talk becoming mainstream in american politics. >> terribly dangerous. lives will be lost, particularly if he goes the next step and does something or attempts to do something truly foolish, ignorant. that would be to pull out of nato. i mean, let's just do the numbers for one second. nato is 32 countries. it is 55% of the world's gdp. it is 3 million troops, active duty, well trained, competent, almost all volunteers. it's got a collective defense budget of $1 trillion. oh, by the way, on the point of

defense budgets and back to the sir, will you pay us, defend us if we don't pay, again, let's do the numbers for a minute. u.s. spends $700 billion a year on defense. the europeans collectively spend over $300 billion. it is the second largest defense budget in the world. that's more than china spends, and, by the way, it is three times what russia spends. the other part, joe, and your rendition of it was pretty accurate, it's just the arrogance. i've never heard a head of state call another head of state anything but by their first name. you've seen donald trump treating nato like it is a protection racket. you know, hey, you've got a nice little country here. be a shame if something happened to it.

it fails on every level, frankly. >> well, "the wall street journal" editorial board is also weighing in on the ex-president's comments. the editors write in part, "mr. trump's riff also comes in the context of his lobbying against more u.s. military aid for ukraine. he boasts about his admiration for mr. putin, and his bromance with the dictator during the 2018 helsinki summit was a low point of his presidency. mr. trump now says he'll end the war in ukraine in 24 hours, even before he's inaugurated. the only way to do that is deny ukraine more weapons and tell president volodymyr zelenskyy to give mr. putin what he wants. the word for that isn't peace. it's appeasement. the u.s. should be having an election debate over the growing dangers to u.s. security and how to counter them. instead, we have an incumbent who has presided over the collapse of u.s. deterrence and

a gop frontrunner who dotes on dictators. no wonder why putin is looking confident these days." >> they had to throw that line in for its readers, that mr. biden is not discouraging deterrence. it's not further from the truth. what he's done in ukraine is extraordinary. >> what he wants to do. >> i mean, just extraordinary, how he's built that up. the same with israel, what's happened there. that just -- we'll talk about that later. it's become such a mess with netanyahu. charlie sykes, "wall street journal" editorial page, for the most part, nails it. talking about just how dangerous this is. yes, talks about 2018 when jonathan lemire asked the question to vladimir putin -- or to donald trump, who he trusted more, and he said the russians over our own intel community.

but this is sinking further for donald trump. "the wall street journal" editorial page is right, this is extraordinarily dangerous. >> very. >> his bromance with vladimir putin, russian hoax? no russian hoax. there continues to be an admiration there that makes america weaker, that makes america less safe, that makes western democracy endangered. >> yeah, this is fat elvis, but it is fat elvis with nukes. we have to balance out the clownishness of this with how dangerous it is. "the wall street journal" is right, put this in context. this comment over the weekend is not a one off. it is consistent with what donald trump has been saying for years. what he has been signaling for years. the rest of the world is listening to this. you know, the way to start wars, of course, is to have miscalculations. he is signaling weakness. he is signaling appeasement and

surrender. there are real world consequences to the things that donald trump is saying. of all of the things, you know, this is an inconsistent, very erratic man, but one of the consistent things about donald trump has been his willingness to bow his knee to vladimir putin, to ask for favors from vladimir putin. >> constantly. >> he will attack everyone in the world. i can't find any reference where he's criticized vladimir putin. again, we have nato watching, our allies watching. vladimir putin is watching. the chinese are watching what donald trump is saying. again, as "the wall street journal" points out, this is not just an off the cuff remark at a rally. this comes amid his campaign to basically kneecap the aid to ukraine right now. people ought to take this very, very seriously. it feels as if we are sleepwalking into a global catastrophe while we're focusing on maybe some of the atmospherics of american

politics. this is real, and it'll have real world consequences, as the admiral said. >> jonathan, charlie is so right. "the wall street journal" editorial page is so right. not only is he saying that he's going to encourage russia to invade our nato allies, he's also actively, right now, working and intimidating republicans in congress to kill funding for ukraine, to basically turn the country over to vladimir putin. >> yeah, he already pushed them to kill the border bill, which would have had also the national security funding for ukraine. that died. the senate has taken some steps now to pass a standalone foreign aid bill, including a lot to ukraine, but there is a sense that even if the senate does pass it, it won't get through the house, largely because donald trump poisoned fellow republicans in the house against helping ukraine. let's recall, right before trump went to helsinki in 2018, he was in brussels at a nato summit meeting and was this close to

pulling the u.s. out then. we shouldn't doubt him when he says he will do it if he is elected again. giving vladimir putin free reign throughout europe. other reactions to this from over the weekend, including from republican senator marco rubio. a member of the foreign relations committee who has endorsed trump for president, o try to defend trump's comments. >> a story he talked about happened in the past. by the way, donald trump was president and didn't pull us out of nato. he was telling a story. donald trump is not a member of the council of foreign relations. he doesn't talk like a traditional politician. but he said, basically, nato was busted until he took over because people weren't paying their dues. he told the story about how he used leverage to get people to step up to the plate and become more active in nato. virtually every american president at some point, in some way, has complained about other countries in nato not doing enough. trump is the first one to express it in these terms.

i have zero concern because he has been president before. i know exactly what he has done and will do with the nato alliance. >> first off, pathetic. secondly, a fact check. there aren't nato dues. countries are encouraged to put in 2% of their gdp. we've seen european nations pick up contributions in recent years. elise, they've done so not because of donald trump's threats but because joe biden revitalized nato as it tries to stand together against russian aggression. it sure looks like donald trump is willing to help out his pal, vladimir putin, again, and republicans like marco rubio will go along with it. >> i have no problem with pressuring european nations to pony up and pay their fair share. but i have a problem with republicans like marco rubio letting donald trump say it is okay to invade nato allies.

it's a contrast from the marco rubio of 2016 in the republican primary, a former hawk. can you imagine if he said any of that stuff then? what we have heard from former trump officials is that he is going to make good on his craziest statements next go-around. that's what john kelly has been warning. that's what john bolton has been warning. he is telling us what he is going to do, and we should be prepared for that. >> let's remember, john heilemann, the only time nato's article five, mutual defense pact, was enacted is to help the united states after september 11th. allies were coming to our help. >> look, little marco has not been -- this is not a portrait in courage, any that surrounded him are long gone. it's been a long time. >> he's not going to get vp. >> that's right. he's made his peace with donald trump. >> admiral stavridis, i ask you at this juncture, just taking

the focus off donald trump for a second, we understand how important there's -- the breakdown of the bill that has been cobbled together that put border security in with ukraine and israel aid, that obviously fell apart. there's some energy on the hill now to get the ukraine bill up through the senate at least and maybe through the house. tell us what you think, not just -- i'm not going to ask for a political read on if it'll pass, but what is at stake for getting the legislation through? >> everything. as follows, this is a 1939 moment when the united states can lead the band here and shut down vladimir putin now in ukraine, which is not a nato member. if we don't shut him down now, it will be called appeasement and it will have a knock-on effect that we will pay for later. from 1939, we kind of tried to

come home and hide back here in the united states. in 1941, the world reached out for us. we ended up in two global wars. one with imperial japan, the other with nazi germany. history has shown us this movie already. now is our chance to stop it. i'll conclude with this, everybody. you know, we've talked about kind of the philosophy of this and the importance of it and the historical references. there's a very pragmatic reason that we ought to continue to build on this nato alliance. it's called the rest of the world. we are desperately seeking now for our nato allies to come to the middle east and operate with us to shut down houthi pirates. we are asking our nato allies to come to the south china sea and sail with us so china opportunity simply co-opt that enormous body of water. there are real, pragmatic

reasons we want to keep this alliance together. you know, not to torture football one more time, but we get to be the quarterback of this alliance. the stupidest thing we could do is simply walk away from that role, fire the offensive line, and decide that we don't want to play the game anymore because the game will come here and find us. >> oh, it will come here and find us. you know, it's so stupid. we do this all the time. in 2010, most americans agreed with president obama. i'm not saying what he did was stupid. in 2010, because so many people, you know, myself included, said, okay, we've been over in iraq enough, let's bring them home. we brought them home. then came isis. we didn't move in syria. 500,000 dead. i'm not saying we have to send in 200,000, 300,000 troops everywhere. we need to support people on the ground. we need to support the kurds.

maybe we send in a couple thousand here, couple thousand there. it has worked. we have now figured out how to, admiral, put in a small footprint. with the foot sprint, in syria, push back iran, syria, push back russia, push back turkey, well, destroy isis. we figured this out. yet, with donald trump and with the house republicans, they really are, it's 1939 isolationist. they are appeasers. they are neville chamberlain. that's all they are. the message they send to put putin by donald trump, who is beyond neville chamberlain. chamberlain was an honorable man, made the wrong call. it's far worse than that. so what is the impact, not only on our allies, but what are they saying in beijing tonight?

>> in beijing, they're doing high fives at the prospect of breaking the transatlantic alliance. because we are so much weaker when the pieces and parts start to fall apart. joe, to your point about using smaller footprints around the world, that's what we did in colombia and ended up taking out an insurgency there before it took over. an important country. that's what we did in the balkans. we never had hundreds of thousands of troops there. we can do this smart. we don't have to be the world's policemen. final thought, it's so much easier when you do it with allies. winston churchill, most quotable man in the world, said, you know, it's pretty frustrating fighting with allies, but, you know, the only thing worse is fighting without allies. i'll take the allies. >> there you go. >> the insane thing is, when we

are with our european allies, i mean, we've got $50 trillion gdp to china's $18 trillion to russia's $1.2 trillion. >> right. >> think about that. when we are together, we have a defense budget of well over $1 billion, together with our european allies. this is not a close call. the only reason somebody would want to separate us from europe is because, well, they want vladimir putin to sweep across europe. there's no other good reason. charlie sykes, let's take a step back for a second. we talk about donald trump too much. if you want to talk about what worries me, i mean, in 2020, when people were celebrating joe biden's victory, i looked up on the big board and saw that 77 million americans voted for a man who just, two weeks earlier,

had said that -- was pressuring his attorney general to arrest the family of his political opponent. it's classic strongman, classic orban, classic putin, classic putin move. 77 million americans still voted for him. >> right. >> even after january 6th, even after encouraging the hanging of his vice president, even after stealing nuclear secrets, even after telling putin to invade european allies, even after donald trump promised to be a dictator on day one, even after donald trump said what america needs is a strongman like orban who is at w with western democracy. a guy who said he wanted to terminate the constitution. a guy who a judge has said is guilty of rape. a guy who a jury said committed

sexual assault and a judge said he raped. yet, joe biden falls off his bike, and a trumpy special prosecutor says he can't remember when his son died, so we'll vote for this other guy. go ahead. >> this is why so many americans feel they've taken crazy pills every single day. >> yup. >> it is remarkable. donald trump is making no secret of what he intends to do, and he tells us over and over again, we cannot say we were warned. that's the extraordinary thing about watching marco rubio and the other republicans. in 2016, they could engage in the fantasy, maybe he'll become more presidential and do those things. fast forward. they know these things. we know these things, and they're still saying, let's put donald trump in the white house. it's not just donald trump but what's happened to the republican party, which we've discussed. the admiral says this is a 1939

moment. think about the 84 years between 1940 and 2024, the republican party made a choice in 1940 not to nominate an isolationist. they nominad wilkie, and the republicans made the decision not to turn their backs on the rest of the world. the policy has rested on a bipartisan consensus. 1952, republicans nominated dwight eisenhower rather than taft. they rejected the right wing part of the party. they've always been there, always isolationists. since 1940, the republican party has been a party that understands the international responsibilities. that tradition is ending now. whatever happens with donald trump, the republican party is turning its back on america's leadership role, and that is an

historic, epic change we're going through now. >> a shift. >> a big shift right at this moment. >> charlie sykes and retired four star admiral james stavridis, thank you, both, very much for being with us early on this monday morning. coming up, we'll have a live report from israel with the latest on the war with hamas. and how the biden administration is weighing a formerly recognizing a palestinian state as a step toward broader peace in the region. that's coming up just ahead here on "morning joe." she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble

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save up to $800 during our president's day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you. i'm sure you saw this week the special counsel in the united states described president biden as an elderly man with a poor memory. you've known joe biden for decades, and you've dealt with him a lot over the course of this conflict. what's your assessment of him?

>> i had more than a dozen phone conversations, extended phone conversations with president biden. he also came on a visit to israel during wartime, which is an historic first. i found him very clear, very focused. we managed to agree on the war aims and many times. sometimes we have disagreements, but they weren't born of a lack of understanding on his part or on my part. that's what i can tell you. i haven't seen that. >> you know, that's israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, asked by abc's jonathan karl about president biden's mental sharpness in the wake of last week's report by special counsel robert hur. let me just say again, and we've talked to foreign leaders. i won't name the countries, but people who negotiated with him in tough circumstances over the past few years, and they all say the same thing. they know his issues. he's aggressive when negotiating. we knows all the angles. he's in there.

again, that's just a reality. i've spent a good bit of time talking to him, as well. i can tell you that he knows his stuff. i mean, more than anybody else here that i talk to as far as politicians. the reason why he was clear, mika, he's been doing this 40, 45 years, 50 years. >> made mistakes along the time, learned from them. >> made mistakes along the way. maybe he gets tired. maybe he makes a mistake, talks about mexico instead of egypt. but if you keep playing that clip, he circles back around and talks about egypt and sisi, i believe. the thing lost in there, of course, was he is explaining what he is doing to help the palestinians. at the same time, move the palestinians toward statehood and support israel while pushing

back on the extreme elements there. that's something -- he's one of the few presidents that has the ability i've seen, over the past 20 years, to maneuver the way he does, because of the long relationships he has. >> let's keep in mind, the special prosecutor was there for a reason. the report was written for a reason. it concluded what was necessary for president biden, and that is that there are no charges necessary in the documents case pertaining to president biden. >> yet, he made sure, he made sure, it really seemed like an in kind contribution to donald trump, he made sure to put language in there that actually damaged the president politically because he couldn't damage him legally. by the way, why are you asking about when somebody's son died? you know, if i were in the middle of an interview, and i know you're the same way, if i was in the middle of a five-hour interview, the war had just broken out in israel the day

before, and they're going through all these other questions, somebody asked, what year did your mother die? >> i don't remember. >> i can tell you, i was closer to my mother than anybody my entire life. >> yeah. >> i go, um, 2017, 2018, i'm not sure. i know if i asked you when your father died, you'd be like, ah -- >> i remember the exact moment but, no, i don't remember the date. >> don't remember the date or the year. again, our minds retain -- i can tell you when my dad died and other big things happened in my life, but sometimes we don't file things away, specific things like that. >> yeah. >> for him to ask the question and, secondly, for this to be some huge issue, again, is really ridiculous. instead of asking the question which netanyahu spoke to there, who is going to defend, who is going to protect america?

who has been doing this? who has the experience to get us through these difficult times? that's the issue. right now, it's just not a close call. it's joe biden. it's not a close call. >> i think joe biden and those that work with him around the world and in the white house, they can show that. i really don't think it's that big a deal, what this guy wrote in his report. i'm not freaked out about it at all because it does seem political. what's important is the outcome of that report and what he concluded. i think those on the far trump right would love to see democrats freaking out about a special prosecutor, about an report, and undermining it for their own -- >> exactly. but, john heilemann, this is a perfect example, john, of why donald trump -- and this has happened throughout his career -- why he didn't win in 2020. every time he was given an

opening, every time there is a news cycle working in his favor, he would open his mouth, do his fat elvis routine, say something completely off the wall, and then everybody would be talking about that. nobody is talking about friday and the press conference that didn't go well this morning. why? because donald trump made sure they would talk about him by saying he would encourage russia to invade our european allies, our nato allies. he knew. that was going to take the story off joe biden. sure enough, this is why he can never get ahead and stay ahead. >> the biden team in the wake of the tough week joe biden had last week pointed out fairly, rightly, and also strategically,

you know, donald trump is addled. donald trump makes lies. donald trump makes falk cal misstatements. compare joe biden to donald trump. as they were saying, this is what we're going to do. we have to go on offense against donald trump and make the point that donald trump is no spring chicken, donald trump doesn't speak perfectly, what does donald trump do, as joe points out? he goes up and doesn't just cough up the russia thing, he coughs up the nikki haley's husband, where is her husband? in the same one speech in south carolina, i watched "way too early" this morning, joe, i always do. >> of course. >> jonathan lemire did a long block, basically, going through the totality of all the things trump did in the one speech. not just the thing we're focused on here, rightly, on substance, which matters the most related to putin, but all these instances. he was confused about who he was running against in the speech, talking about obama. he did all of the things to provide moder for anyone who

wants to say joe biden may not be perfect, but look at donald trump. it's like donald trump was like, okay, time to show them exactly how imperfect i am. he laid it out in the course of the one speech he made. on every front, jonathan. >> yeah, two things. first of all, it's trump's pathological need to be the center of attention. you be quiet. joe biden had a terrible news cycle. be quiet. let him deal with that. he didn't. he stepped on it repeatedly, as heilemann played out. as we showed, he made misstatement after misstatement in the speech. we can safely say this, both men are elderly and will make mistakes. only one is encouraging russia to invade nato countries. >> or overturn the 2020 election, talks about wanting to be a dictator. >> mistakes are obvious. we're seeing the biden team go on the offensive. do some democrats wish biden did a super bowl interview yesterday? yes, they do. we had a vice president forcefully defending him over

the weekend. we had the president go on attack over the weekend about nato comments, and he rigged the super bowl. >> not only did he rig the super bowl, but he bragged, mika, about bragging the super bowl. >> just as he planned. >> the qanon freaks -- do we have that full screen? the right-wing qanon, trumpy freaks who said that biden rigged the super bowl so the chiefs would win in dramatic fashion, and taylor swift would be on the field and get even bigger before she endorsed him, the white house is admitting it. >> they like to be transparent. >> you know what they like to do? they like to troll extreme maga freaks. by the way, for the record, john heilemann asked if i watched "way too early." it's like asking if i watched the super bowl. i've watched now, just in the past 12 hours, i've watched the

two highest rated shows of 2024 so far. number two, the super bowl. number one, this morning's edition of "way too early." >> very good. we have to go to break. we have to go leave to tel-aviv. matt bradley has a report. we'll hear more about the call between prime minister netanyahu and joe biden. we'll be right back. ack.

rich people are given $7,000 subsidies. i didn't need this. i had a very nice life. nice saturday afternoon. i could tell you, if i weren't doing this, where i would have been, i would have been in a very nice location. danger from within is far greater, in my opinion, than the danger on the outside of our country. that's danger. but this is serious danger. the fascists, the communists, the serious socialists. i hear that they like obama

better. they should like obama better. you know why? he didn't ask for anything. we were like the stupid country of the world, and we're not going to be the stupid country of the world any longer. we're not going to be. it got bad under this guy. so he now wants to send them $50 billion, $60 billion. i know all about the marbles. i can tell you every marble. these beautiful columns, incredible how they could have done it years ago without the powerful tractors. we have to win in november or we're not going to have pennsylvania. they'll change the name. they're going to change the name of pennsylvania. strewn all over the garage floor, his precious. we can be energy independent, and we can even be energy dominant. yes, quickly says that, president trump. >> wow. >> wow. >> when he wasn't threatening to destroy a nearly 75-year-old

global alliance that took down the soviet union, donald trump seemed downright confused at times over the weekend. did he know who he was running against? >> he thought he was running against barack obama. >> what? >> he always, always -- >> he's obsessed with him. >> he is. he feels inferior to him in every way. >> yeah. >> but he is obsessed with obama. he keeps confusing obama. then the powerful tractors. >> yeah. >> that made columns. >> my god. >> the powerful tractors. >> anyhow, he seemed to think barack obama was president and was even slurring his words at times. >> he does that. >> it happens. >> like i said, fat elvis at the microphone. they like fat elvis at the microphone. >> they love him. >> they don't care that he thinks he's running against a guy who got out of politics eight years ago. two minutes past the top of

the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, february 12th. jonathan lemire, john heilemann, elise jordan still with us. joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. >> oh, boy, here we do. >> nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill. >> claire, i picked the chiefs, and we all picked the chiefs on friday because of patrick mahomes. because you look at the game and it was evenly matched. there were mistakes on both sides. but you look at bosa on the chiefs defense. purdy had a pretty good game. mccaffrey is just mccaffrey. had a fumble but still. i mean, you had two great teams, two great offenses, two great defenses, great coaches. but mahomes was the difference, just like you knew he would be. >> yeah. first, if i say something stupid

this morning, which, you know, i might do, i have not had much sleep. i have so give that respect, mad respect, to the san francisco 49ers. if you were a chiefs fan, that was a hard game to watch. it was exhausting. it was incredibly stressful. but i've got to tell you, i know that patrick mahomes is the deal. i know he is amazing, and he is so good when the pressure is so high. but i wish the mvp could have been given to the defense last night. spagnuolo is the very first coordinator in nfl history to win four rings. you look at the adjustments they made at halftime. you look at the games played by chris jones and karlaftis and mcduffy. they had amazing games. it was because of them we won the super bowl. not that, you know, everybody else didn't do great on offense, and our special teams stood up

when they had to, but it was a defensive triumph by the kansas city chiefs. that's what's so exciting about the future. we always had this offense that was razzle-dazzle but defense wasn't that good. i'd pause it after last night. i'd argue we don't have the best defense in the nfl. >> of course, mike barnicle, what you saw, as we said, is a great defense wins super bowls. a great defense and a good, solid offense. well, you know, they have more than a good, solid offense. feel free to talk about patrick mahomes. but just following up on what claire said, you know, we've seen the 49ers offense this year. mccaffrey. purdy has been a great point guard, moving the ball around. deebo, unbelievable, just an extraordinary talent, kittle. i mean, they've got a great offense. the chiefs, for the most part, held them in check. >> that defense was incredible.

spagnuolo is from springfield, massachusetts, so jonathan and i will claim him. >> yup. >> the first half was trench warfare, watching the first half, given that both defenses were so outstanding. at the end of the game, you know with one minute and 43 seconds left in the game, that the ball was turned over to the kansas city chiefs and patrick mahomes, you knew what was going to happen. that was the game right there. 1:43 left in the game, and he gets the ball. you've got to feel badly for san francisco. they played a great game. it was a -- it was two games to my mind. the first half was, okay, come on, let's go. let's make something happen here. nothing happened. other than a terrific defensive battle on both sides. >> that was brutal. >> second half, it was a great game. the fourth quarter was up there among the finest. patrick mahomes is there with joe montana and getting close to tom brady. >> also, for just last night, jonathan lemire, let me see if you'll agree with me here, there

are few quarterbacks that when you give them the ball in the fourth quarter of the super bowl, when you give them the ball in overtime in the super bowl, and you go, oh, we know how this is going to end, you can name two or three quarterbacks in the history. i can name three in the history of the super bowl where i know they're going to win. if i know they're going to win sitting at home, that means the chiefs sitting there in the huddle know he's going to do what it takes. those three quarterbacks are joe montana, tom brady, and patrick mahomes. give them the ball in the fourth quarter. tell them, hey, you have to drive the length of the field with, oh, i don't know, about a minute, minute and a half left. your money better be on mahomes. you'll lose it if you bet against him in the super bowl. >> i agree. the quarterbacks are a tier above the rest. even in tom brady's two super bowl losses against the giants, he had late scoring drives.

he did his part. the defense let him down. the niners were largely throttled on offense in the second half, managing the field goal in overtime when you really needed a touchdown. that is the highest compliment all morning to patrick mahomes. is he tom brady yet? no. but he is heading that way. he's on that tier, getting close to the tier with joe montana. he is going to be a top -- he is a top three quarterback in the nfl history already, and he's only 28 years old. it was the inevitability of him. you knew he'd get the ball, and he was going to win. >> how old was tom brady when he won his super bowl? >> mahomes each had three at the age of 28. >> all right. we'll turn to politics now. when he wasn't attacking nato or slurring his words or confusing his opponent with barack obama, donald trump was launching new attacks against nikki haley on saturday, questioning the whereabouts of her husband, major michael haley, who is

serving an active duty deployment in africa with the south carolina army national guard. take a look at what trump had to say followed by nikki haley's response. >> the greatest president in my lifetime, she said. i will never run against him. then he comes over to see me at mar-a-lago. sir, i will never run against you. she brought her husband. where is her husband? oh, he's away. he's away. what happened to her husband? what happened to her husband? where is he? he's gone. he knew. he knew. >> i need to start with the fact that donald trump had a rally today, and in that rally he mocked my husband's military service. donald, if you have something to say, don't say it behind my back. get on a debate stage and say it to my face. i am proud of michael's service.

every military spouse knows it's a family sacrifice. i have long talked about the fact that we need to have mental competency tests for anyone over the age of 75. donald trump claims that he would pass that. maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. but if you mock the service of a combat veteran, you don't deserve a driver's license, let alone being president of the united states. >> major michael haley also responded on social media, tagging trump and several media outlets with a graphic that reads, "the difference between humans and animals? animals would never allow the dumbest ones to lead the pack." wow. >> mike barnicle, how disgusting. this really reminds me so much of what he said to general kelly, which is, you know, that soldiers, they get killed in combat, are suckers, and asking

general kelly, who lost his son in combat, "why would anybody do that? why would anybody, like, do something where they got nothing in return for it?" again, just showing how shallow and how horrible the man is. ridiculing the dead, dead american heros. we know he still ridicules john mccain, a dead american hero. he ridiculed him for being imprisoned in hanoi for, i think, seven years, for having the opportunity to come home even when he was being tortured so badly that he couldn't raise his arms above his head, and john mccain said, "no, i'm not going to leave without my band of brothers. i will not be the first out of here." donald trump mocked that. now, he's mocking nikki haley's husband who is in active duty

service. i mean, there is a -- there is a line that connects all of this. again, i ask those people out there cheering when he's mocking an active duty service person, what's wrong with you? why do you support that? why do you support a guy that a judge called a rapist? why to you support a guy a jury found liable for sexual abuse? why to you support a guy that tells vladimir putin, basically, please invade europe when i'm president of the united states. i won't do anything. >> joe, i might be wrong, but i believe he made those comments to general kelly while standing at arlington national cemetery, section 68, which is filled with the graves and the headstones of people who died in iraq and afghanistan. look, i think what we're watching and listening to, including the clip we just played, of donald trump trying

to make believe that nikki haley's husband perhaps left her when he is in djibouti in east africa, serving with the united states military, i believe that we're watching the ultimate card the democrats have in their hands. it is the length of the campaign. nine months of listening to this man. nine months of watching a man disassemble each and every day under the pressure of litigation, of having to go to trials where he could be found guilty of a felony, all of that. including what he says about nato and his references to ukraine and trying to stop the funding of a fight against vladimir putin, ignoring the history of what has happened in europe over the last century, i mean, this is a modern day version of 1939. david ignatius, unless ukraine gets that funding, we could be

looking at something truly horrific in europe. >> well, mike, ukraine is really on the edge now, unfortunately, after standing so united in the first year and a half of the war. there are increasing political debates within ukraine, a country that when i was last there in october, i wrote was exhausted. president zelenskyy has just fired his commander in chief who wanted to have a full mobilization, get enough manpower to fight off what he fears is going to be a new russian attempt to attack and move west. it's a moment where ukraine really hangs in the balance. the idea that this is the moment when this glib -- i've been thinking that trump is an insult comedian. he rambles on for an hour, looking for lines that will excite the audience. when he would drop this line

about he'd encourage the russians to attack nato allies if they didn't pay up, i mean, it's just a stunner. the effect on morale of countries that surround ukraine, on the people of ukraine itself. i've said this in our earlier conversations about trump, he seems to have no idea of how long it took to build the structure that's nato, the structure and security, of all the sacrifices that went into it. there are several generation of people who worked and fought and cared to build it up, and he just thinks he can blow it over, you know, in a few comments. i fear he may be able to, if his base supports him. it's just an awful feeling to see this glib, self-absorbed person take down something that has been so important in the world. >> yeah.

elise, listening to david talking about how trump could tear down something so quickly that took years and years and sacrifice after sacrifice to build up, people who lost their lives during the cold war, i'm just so reminded of edmund burke, who talked about what true conservatism was and warned of radicals. warned of radicals. i'll just say, like donald trump. radicals and people that are not detached to reality that can tear down in a day what took centuries to build up. that could tear down foundational institutions in a day that took centuries of pragmatism and compromise to build up. >> they are able to tear down institutions that the foundations are obviously not that strong on because other republicans do not stand up against donald trump when he is

making these statements. you look at the mealy-mouth defenses yesterday on the sunday shows. it was just embarrassing and not even personal defense for nikki haley when her husband, who is deployed in a very treacherous part of the world, is being attacked. it shows donald trump knows nothing about service at all, and he has no respect for anyone who would do it. you look at someone. nikki haley is a powerful woman. she probably could have tried to maneuver so her husband wouldn't have to deploy this year, but she didn't because she is honorable. it is yet another example of donald trump disrespecting our national security and the men and women who keep us safe. >> well, and just with that question, who is he to talk? it is no one's business. who is he to talk? israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and president joe biden spoke yesterday by phone about the latest developments out of the israel-hamas war, and

the ongoing efforts to release hostages. in the call, biden reportedly cautioned netanyahu against moving the military into rafah without a credible plan to protect civilians first. abc's jonathan karl pressed netanyahu about those plans. >> you've directed the israeli defense forces to evacuate rafah in advance of this ground invasion. where are those people supposed to go? this is 1.4 million people. many of whom have fled northern gaza. i mean, they're living in tents. where are these people supposed to go? >> the areas we've cleared north of rrafah, plenty of areas ther. we're working out a detailed plan to do so. that's what we've done until now. we're not cavalier about this. this is part of the war effort, to get civilians out of harm's way. it is part of hamas' effort to keep them in harm's way. we've succeeded and will again. those who say under no

circumstances should we enter rafah are basically saying, lose the war. keep hamas there. meanwhile, for decades, american presidents proposed a two-state solution for conflict in the middle east. now, it may be put into action as president biden looks to unveil a plan to recognize a palestinian state. we'll go live to tel-aviv with that part of the story actually right now. >> right now. >> let's go to nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. he is ready to go now live from tel-aviv. matt, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: in addition to the call between benjamin netanyahu and joe biden, there's a flurry of diplomacy in the middle east. we're about to see the cia chief dispatched again, this time to cairo, to try to free the remaining hostages still left in gaza. in addition to that, we're seeing something on the sidelines, a more ambitious plan as you mentioned, and one that our audience will be probably

pretty familiar with. [ applause ] >> reporter: it is an idea that has been tried, tested, and failed so many times before. but, somehow, the mass killings of october 7th and the months that followed didn't kill the two-state solution. now, joe biden is pushing ahead with a plan to recognize a palestinian state once again. for palestinian leaders, it sounds like history repeating. so when joe biden says, i want to recognize a palestinian state, what do you think? what comes to mind for you? >> what comes to mind? what is he waiting for? it takes a decree. i can write a draft for him and send it over. what does it take? >> reporter: but biden's plan begun before october 7th includes a few more moving parts. it's wrapped up with saudi arabia, which the u.s. hopes will recognize israel diplomatically in return for american recognition of palestine. in exchange, the u.s. might give saudi arabia advanced technology

and a defense pact. it is an ambition that ben rhodes, under barack obama and now an msnbc contributor, knows all too well. >> are we for two states, the mass displacement of the palestinian people, or a permanent reality in which palestinians live as subjugated peoples within a greater israel? there is not another option here. there's not. >> reporter: why didn't president obama do it? he had eight years. >> look, we tried. we tried two rounds of peace negotiations. >> reporter: these days, hamas and israel seem more apart than ever, and neither seems interested in peace. israel is continuing its assault on the gaza strip in response to hamas' october 7th attacks. hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by the u.s., which has excluded it from participation in a future state,

and israel's far-right leadership, led by benjamin netanyahu, has worked against palestinian statehood for decades. >> anyone who wants security must do anything within its powers to say no to palestinian state. >> reporter: a leader from the far-right zionist party has a seat in the cabinet. >> it'll be easier for them to kill us all? it's really immoral. >> reporter: meanwhile, the palestinians internationally recognized government, the palestinian authority, controls no territory in the gaza strip and only parts of the west bank, thanks in part to the spread of israeli settlements. its leader, mahmoud abbas, is nearly 90 and hasn't faced presidential elections since 2005. even a leader in abbas' party is frustrated with his interminable rule. >> reporter: unseat him, it's

been 20 years. >> the only way to unseat abbas is through elections. as long as the international community and the state of israel are supporting abbas in his position without elections, that means our fight is not against abbas. our fight is against the international community and the united states. honestly, we're not that strong. >> reporter: with so much pessimism, palestinian leaders say they may be willing to wait out biden and his plan, putting their hopes in whoever comes next. even president trump. his peace proposal fell flat, but his successful abraham accords led several arab states to recognize israel for the first time. the israelis failed. will joe biden fail? or better yet, will donald trump fail? he could be in office within a year. >> absolutely. donald trump is pragmatic. even though i have personally serious issues with his

recognition of jerusalem, occupy jerusalem as the capital of the city of israel, at the end of the day, donald trump is more pragmatic than joe biden. i believe that if he is in power, maybe he will bring in new vision. >> reporter: and you heard that frustration, guys, from that palestinian politician. you know, there's a lot of frustration among american arabs and muslims, as well, with joe biden, and it sounds like they might be willing to put that on the line, might be willing to risk a trump presidency, withdraw their voting, and put their lot in with trump, just to see how he does. >> all right. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley, thank you so much. >> thank you, matt. >> i mean, again, some of the comments from the palestinian politician are just bizarre. when he's saying, just do it. just recognize us.

you know, we're working with the saudis. we're working with the jordanians. we're working around the middle east to help palestinian people. i don't quite get that reaction any more than the reaction that donald trump is pragmatic. here's a guy who said, who believed we could have middle east peace and we will cut the palestinians out of it. we will ignore the palestinians. david ignatius, that logic blew up in their face october 7th. i get it, you can have these grand peace treaties in the middle east and pretend the palestinians don't exist, which is exactly what they said, and said it to me. said they were going to do, make peace and keep the palestinians on the sidelines. october 7th, that blew up in everybody's face. you know, good questions raised by that package about palestinian leadership. why no elections on the west

bank? because the last time the united states pressured palestinians to have an election, they elected hamas in gaza. now, we move forward. since 1948, palestinian leaders have said no. they've said no to one good plan after another. you can go, starting in 1948, you can go to 2000 and the oslo accords. i mean, the only deal that really worked was one that mika's dad and vance and, of course, president carter put together. so with that backdrop, how does biden's plan work without new leadership in the west bank? because, let me say it, abbas must go. >> joe, you put your finger on what i think we should be watching for this week. the king of jordan is going to be in washington, already is here, and will be meeting with

the president. he'll be laying out a plan for a revitalized palestinian authority. they're already calling it the rpa. that basically will describe a palestinian authority that is prepared to move into a post mahmoud abbas era, is less corrupt, more efficient, and will be more capable of maintaining security in the west bank, in gaza. the plans are pretty detailed. i think king abdulla will bring even the name of somebody who, i'd told, president abbas agreed might be a new prime minister for the palestinian authority, a technocrat who would have, i think, general recognition around the world as a competent administrator. but let's be honest, what's really ahead is a showdown between president biden and prime minister netanyahu. they are fundamentally opposed now on the major issues that

stand in the way of the de-escalation of this conflict. netanyahu has said that an assault on rafah, where all the civilians very driven in the south of gaza, is essential. there are four battalions of hamas down there. i'm told that's true. but it's not clear to people i talk to that the israelis do have a clear plan about what to do with civilians in the rafah area. president biden has said, this is a bad idea. we're against it. is he going to make that american insistence powerful enough that that will convince netanyahu? so we have a week and weeks ahead that will really test whether this president has the strength to break through all the factors that have been preventing peace, that prevent it now. it's a huge job.

i hope he has the will to keep going because it is going to take that. >> yeah. claire, for there to be any hope for peace moving forward, for there to be any hope of any solution in this region, we have to to two things. one, we have to keep protecting and defending israel. two, we have to protect the defenseless right now in gaza from slaughter. you look at what's happening in rafah. you know, we've -- the pictures that have been coming out of there for some time are just horrific. you look at children living in tents. you look at the conditions. it is a third world country. it is in despair. you've had over a million palestinias shoved to the corner of that country. it's the last remaining, haven,

netanyahu says he'll attack the last, remaining safe haven. this is, of course, horrific for the palestinians. it is also, let us say again, bad for israel. it is bad for israel, for the body count to continue to rise. >> yeah. i mean, bibi netanyahu has done real damage to the state of israel in the way that this has been conducted, and biden has to stand up to him. he's got to continue to be more aggressive about the way he stands up to him. about the way they are pursuing, you know, really bad guys that did horrible things in their country. we all recognize their right to go after the terrorists that slaughtered innocents in israel. but, you know, the thing that's gotten my attention right now is biden is doing all the things he should be doing. but look what the republican party is doing right now in terms of our national security. the vote that was taken

yesterday in the senate, joe, this is a really big moment for the republican party. the senate has always been kind of still okay in a way under the leadership of mitch mcconnell as it relates to aid to ukraine and israel. 27 republicans broke with mitch mcconnell. the majority of his caucus sided with donald trump. people like tom cotton, one of the biggest defense hawks in the senate, was -- >> not anymore. >> -- too afraid of donald trump to vote for aid. how about lindsey graham? what happened to lindsey graham? you know, it's crazy! >> please. >> i've been asking that for a long time. >> then if you look at the list of people who voted no, many of them are running for vice president. katie britt, tom cotton, tim scott, lindsey graham, they're all running for vice president instead of worrying about protecting the united states of

america through protecting our allies. >> yeah, so this is what tom cotton, this is what lindsey graham -- can you keep that up? this is what all of these republicans who wanted to be friends with donald trump, who want to be donald trump's vice president, voted against. they voted against ukraine aid that will stop an ex-kgb agent from overtaking their entire country. so they voted to abandon ukraine. they voted to abandon israel. they voted to abandon humanitarian assistance for all those suffering in gaza. and they voted against supporting taiwan. that's where donald trump's republican party is right now. the people who have been calling themselves hawk through the year, what cowards. what absolute cowards, that they're willing to abandon our

allies in europe, our allies in israel, our allies within range of china. >> right. >> and, again, providing aid and comfort, really, to the chinese communists, to the russians, to hamas. it's really disgusting. >> claire mccaskill, thank you very much. get some sleep. >> congratulations. >> david ignatius, thank you, as well. we'll be reading david's latest piece for the paper entitled, "what a russian and ukrainian general agree on: this battlespace is different." ahead on "morning joe," there is more on donald trump's handling of classified documents. we'll get a live report from outside the courthouse. plus, new york's third congressional district is gearing up for a special election to replace displaced republican congressman george santos. we'll talk to former democratic

congressman tom suozzi who is hoping to flip that seat blue. and "curb your enthusiasm" creator, larry david, gives joe a behind the scenes look at the show's final season. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (♪♪) with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world is getting smaller because of my sight. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo.

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♪♪ 37 past the hour. tomorrow marks an early election litmus test. new york will hold a special election to fill the seat left vacant after republican george santos was expelled from congress in december. the fight for new york's third district kicks off the battle over control of the house and is expected to be an early messaging and turnout test for both parties ahead of november. democrat tom suozzi, a moderate who held the seat for three terms before stepping aside in

2022 to run for governor, is facing republican felipe, with little experience, winning her first and only office in 2021 opt part-time nassau county legislature. also an orthodox jew born in ethiopia who served in the american defense forces and became an american citizen in 2009. the special election is providing an early opportunity to test party messaging and counter messaging on top issues like immigration, abortion, and israel's war with hamas, expected to play major roles in races all across the country this fall. the winner of the special election will serve out the remainder of santos' unfinished term in the house, which expires in 2025. former new york congressman tom suozzi joins us now.

good to have you back on the show. let's start with the easy one. why to you want to go back? >> yeah, thanks so much for having me on the show, mika. our country is in a lot of trouble. if we're going to try and fix things, we need to change the messaging. it can't be the extremist my way or the highway from the far left and far right. we have to come together and solve the things of the country. these are serious problems, not games. this is real life. we need people to get beyondivi together to solve problems. >> we showed the front page of "the new york post," "migrant crime wave." some of the crime stuff is overblown, but the migrant issue is a significant one in american politics right now. tell us how much you're hearing about that in your district, suburban new york city, but also whether you think as a democrat you can make the argument that, now, the republicans are to blame because they're the ones who submarined the border bill. >> you're absolutely right.

this is a serious problem. people talk about it and are concerned about it, and we have an opportunity to solve it. we can get more money, border agents, close the wall, all these things if we go with the senate bill negotiated the past four months. instead of going forward with that deal, republicans are listening to former president trump who is saying, don't give biden a victory. i want to campaign on the chaos. they're the ones who are keeping the border open. they're the ones that are endangering israel. they're the ones empowering putin by not doing the bipartisan deal. people are sick of that politics. it is cynical. as mitt romney said, it is appalling. >> so you're running out in long island, suburban america, when a lot of suburban america is leaning democrat. but you're running against a powerful republican entrenched machine in long island. oddly enough, you're a man of the middle, and, yet, you sound and seem, out there, like an agent of change in this

election. >> yeah, that's what's really odd about this race. if you want to fix things in washington, d.c., i'm offering you an antidote to try and come together and say, let's stop all the b.s. let's actually talk about what the people care about. whereas, my opponent is just taking the republican talking points. she's anti-choice. she's pro-guns. she doesn't want to do the bipartisan deal. she's just being led around by the republican machine that is very powerful, no question. it is a powerful machine, but i beat them before. we'll beat them again tomorrow. >> i have two related questions. the first you'll probably be able to dispense with quickly. the whole course of this campaign, how many times have you heard a constituent say, we miss george santos? secondly, if you win, you have to run again in november. you get this little -- >> nobody told me that! >> there ya go. how do you feel at this point about the notion of running with joe biden at the top of the ticket in 2024 in november? how does that feel to you in your district? how are some of these larger questions about biden and his

competence, his age, these things that flared up last week, how will it play out in your district? >> the next 48 hours are a focus. >> sure. >> but the president is underwater. donald trump is underwater. they're both unpopular. people are sick of the politics and game playing. they want us to work together to solve problems. we know what politics has become. i'm talking about what politics could be, which i tried to demonstrate throughout my career as a mayor, county execexecutiv member of congress. we can actually fix things. i was the vice chairman of the problem solvers caucus, 25 republicans, 25 democrats, let's find common ground to solve the problems we face. >> george santos was a disaster that reflected badly on the republicans in long island and new york state who helped elevate him. you're only ahead, though, by margin of error, three, four points. why is the race still so close? >> it is a tough environment for

democrats on long island. but i think my message is breaking through, of working together to solve problems. i wouldn't even have brought up george santos in the race because everybody is sick of that, but my opponent in this post george santos era is not being transparent. she's taking these extreme positions, being led around by the party leaders, both from washington and locally. people don't want that. how can you not be transparent in this environment? she wouldn't even say who she voted for for president untils e voted for trump. she's anti-choice. wants guns on the street. she won't ban automatic weapons. she won't do bipartisan deals. it's republican talking points. i don't care republican or democratic, we don't want the extreme voices. we want people to work together to solve the problems we face. >> speaking of your opponent, she's been scarce in the campaign. >> absent. >> we know donald trump offered his endorsement. >> he has? i didn't know that. >> donald trump also, we know, carried suffolk county even in

2020 and did well in nassau, as well. what are you seeing now for just how people around you feel about him at this moment? >> about trump? >> yeah. >> people have had it with trump, too. trump and biden are both, as i said, underwater. again, they both represent, at the current time, the same old politics. the president is going to have to break through and start presenting the message he ran on in the first place, which is about working together to get things done. which is the race i'm running, as well. i think, quite frankly, if i win this race, despite very difficult odds because of the republican machine, because of the republicans winning things for the past three years out of my district, running on this message of working together, i can go to washington and give a speech on the floor of the congress. i'll get sworn in with everybody in the room. when i get that opportunity, if i get the opportunity, i'll stand before my colleagues and i'll say, wake up! people are sick of this. let's get something done to serve the people on immigration, on crime, on cost of living, on the things people care about. >> all right.

former congressman tom suozzi, thank you very much. great to see you again. we'll see what happens. good luck to you. >> thanks so much. appreciate being here. coming up, as both of the nation's leading candidates for president seek a second term in the white house, our next guest is exploring what happens to commanders in chief after leaving office. we'll take a look at life after power for seven former presidents. that's next on "morning joe." only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. now save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base ends monday. only at sleep number. shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your

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of our nations leaders and how they moved on after holding the most powerful office in the world. they include thomas jefferson who went on to found the university of virginia. john quincy adams who served in congress and became a leading abolitionist. and of course, jimmy carter who's had the longest post presidency in american history, advancing humanitarian causes, human rights, and peace. and joining us now, the author of that book, jerry cohen. let's start there. congratulations on the book, but let's start with jimmy carter who it seems every step of the way in his post presidency, he has been an example to the world. >> that's absolutely right, mika. thank you for having me. alexander hamilton asked the question, what should we do with our ex-presidents, he wondered if it was a good idea to have

them wandering around as discontented ghosts. with jimmy carter, we have an answer to the question, former presidents can be a successor or a huge nuisance. jimmy carter has been both to democrats and republicans alike. >> congrats on the book. let's go through some of these. let's talk about grover cleveland who was a post presidency twice because he lost and then set out four years ago, and won again. donald trump is trying to mimic his behavior. tell us more about him. beyond the politics. >> i love the fact that we get an occasion to talk about grover cleveland again. i never would have thought it would be news worthy to write about cleveland. here we are, the one and only time you have had a rematch between two presidents, as the nominees of the two major parties was 1892, grover cleveland came back to challenge harrison. he threw away the presidency

that he didn't want high tariffs. he had never been happier. he came back on the principle that he needed to save the economy from ruin, stop the tide. the only rematch between two presidents, 2024, the two oldest candidates in history, eclipsed only by themselves. >> robert hoover, history stamped depression on his forehead. what did he do after he left office. >> i'm on a mission to make herbert hoover great again. he lived to be 99 years old, defined by his four years in the white house. before he was president, he was the great humanitarian that fed the world after world war i. he was an orphan that was a self-made millionaire. he waltzs into the white house in one of the most lopsided victories in history in 1928.

he's tarnished by the great depression. and harry truman resurrects him after fdr's death because they knew what it was like to live in fdr's shadow. they're staring the end of world war ii in the face, and asked herbert hoover to become the great humanitarian. he becomes the great executive, reorganizing the executive branch under truman and eisenhower. he achieves the bipartisan feat when joe kennedy calls on him amidst the cold war. it's time to make herbert hoover great again. >> your book comes out tomorrow. it's gotten rave review from richard norton smith, i'm excited to read it my former colleague at the state department, in policy planning.

i want to ask about thomas jefferson, founded uva, he faced an interesting situation in 1825 with the version of, you know, social justice warriors back in the day. and can you talk about that. >> it's interesting, you look at what's happening on university campuses today and each chapter in the book looks at a different model for how to answer the question of what's next, and thomas jefferson was a serial founder. he didn't want to be president. that was a founders obligation. the third volume in his life trilogy was to found an arts and sciences university because he believed the republic was flawed and you needed a university to train the next generation. at 82 years old, the worst day in thomas jefferson's life, the students in the beloved uva are rioting throughout the university, covering facebook, chanting down with european professors and throwing bags of urine at the administration. he calls an assembly for the students to meet before the

disciplinary committee, thomas jecherson, james madison, and james monroe, and the reason this is prescriptive for today, jefferson starts bawling, staring down his 82-year-old face. when james madison puts his hand on jefferson's shoulder to sit down, the students are distraught by seeing thomas jefferson emotionally tarnished by what they have done, they confess one by one, and abandon their show of southern honor where they won't give each other up. >> what a great story. >> the new book is "life after power," seven presidents and their search for purpose beyond the white house. it goes on sale tomorrow. jared cohen. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. congratulations on the book. it looks great. >> thank you for having me. >> good to have you. >> and still ahead, attorneys for donald trump will be in federal court this morning for a hearing related to the former president's alleged mishandling

of classified documents found at mar-a-lago. we'll have a live report from the courthouse in florida. plus, flashbacks of 2016 and the fallout from the special counsel report on president biden's handling of classified documents. vanity fair's molly jong-fast will join us with her take on robert hur's comments about biden's memory, and its potential impact on the election in november. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪♪ oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates

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what's going on? >> first and goal. it's there. jackpot, kansas city. >> the kansas city chiefs beat the san francisco 49ers in an overtime thriller to win their third super bowl in the last five years with quarterback patrick mahomes earning his

third super bowl mvp. what a game. we have a lot of tired faces for you this morning. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, february 12th, let's bring in the host of pablo torre finds out on espn's pablo torre. it was actually a really good game. i'm going to let it go. >> it was classic from the beginning, the teams were set. it's so fascinating, you know, like you, i was looking at the chiefs defense being key, so many different things being key, but at the end of the day, it was a young quarterback versus a guy who's been there before. what a huge difference it made. mahomes, we're not saying he's brady because he's not brady yet. you could put him in a handful of three or four quarterbacks like montana, brady, that could

have done that last night. it's just extraordinary. >> patrick mahomes is the greatest quarterback i have ever seen, and that's of course with deference to john lemire's, mike barnacle's tom brady. he's done it all. what patrick mahomes has done is turn the super bowl into his own residency. he's been there four times. he has won three of them. he's won two in a row. on friday i talked to you about my personal philosophical conflict between collective greatness and the individualist great man theory of football, which i am attempted into, and that's what we saw. we saw patrick mahomes get the ball with less than two minutes left, in overtime, an all time classic, no hyperbole necessary. one of the greatest and longest games we have ever seen and patrick mahomes does this. it's the guy who reaches history because he is just that good.

>> one of my favorite super bowl stories is the montana john candy story which i retold so many times around my house at people. the story is for those who haven't heard me tell it a thousand times. you had the 49ers backed up against the bengals, they had, what, 90 yards to go to win the super bowl. all the guys in the san francisco huddle were, like, freaked out and nervous, and they looked at joe montana who was looking overhead, and he goes, hey, and they turned around, and goes, it's john candy, and they all looked at each other and said if he's not worried, we're not worried. of course he wasn't. he knew he was going to take them 90 yards in the last minute, and they were going to win. greatness is a quarterback walking in, seemingly insurmountable circumstances and you look at the quarterback going, he's going to do this.

his teammates knew it. he knew it. you knew it. we knew mahomes. >> we all picked the chiefs for this reason. typically a recipe for us to face plant to step on a rake. he made us look good. >> thank god because at the end of the day, lemire, it is all about us. it was, jonathan lemire, again, i just, you can't say enough about patrick mahomes. these were two evenly matched teams. it was a great 49ers team. the chiefs had trouble through the year. they were fighting each other on the sidelines. rice is screaming, and kelce, i still can't believe he went up to andy reid and bumped him. he obviously didn't go to high school in northwest florida, your they had would have been taken off if you did that to a coach. they were a mess throughout the

year, kind of a mess on the sidelines, they still one. >> patrick mahomes is inevitable. he has reached the threshold of greatness, you know he's going to do it. you know he's going to do it. he's not tom brady yet, he's got a path. he has a long way ahead of him. he could enter that conversation some day. this was not a great game to start. it was very sloppy. the 49ers was excellent. 10-3 at the half. it was a sluggish game, and we did get a classic 4th quarter in overtime. brock purdy played well. christian mccaffrey, he was good as he always is. the biggest mistake is they took the ball in overtime. >> they wanted it first. >> i think the strategy is you should give the other team first so you see what you need. this is also now kyle shanahan, not one, not two, but the third time he has blown the 10-point

lead in the super bowl. >> if it's not going to happen this year, then when. the question you ask if you're kyle shanahan's dad, mike shanahan. for people who don't know, has the reputation, the behavior of a choker, and he did it when he blew 28-3 john's patriots. they wanted the ball first in overtime, new overtime rules inspired because of what the chiefs did or didn't get to do against the bills. everybody gets a shot now, and patrick mahomes went second, and he turned into the guy chasing the inevitable, yeah, horror movie villain down the hallway. it was watching mahomes operate on the 49ers defense, which was excellent. i can only imagine what it was like being on the 9ers defense. it was like being awake for open heart surgery on yourself.

he was clinical, surgical, and look, the number one thing i think about when i just reflect on a year at the end of a football season is how this is the most random sport. it's a sport where the ball is literally oblong. it's meant to be unpredictable. it's meant to be like a roulette table. it's a coin flip every time, but patrick mahomes and andy reid and travis kelce, what they have done is made the unpredictable, the random, predictable and inevitable. that's something we haven't seen since tom brady and the patriots. they're a dynasty now, joe. they have actually done it. >> yeah, they are a dynasty. you know, also the 9ers are so good. you talk about their defense. >> they are. >> i mean, throughout the game, bosa was just extraordinary. so disciplined on the outside. they're an amazing football

team. pablo, this reminds me of the great steeler/cowboys match-ups in the '70s. you had the two best teams going, and they left it all on the field. super bowl xiii along with this one, probably the greatest super bowl of all time. you do. you have that inevitability. it's true in football, anything can happen on any given sunday, and it always does. right? but you're right, though. this is -- what was so exciting to me about this super bowl was you had the two best teams playing by far. you had two extraordinary organizations playing, and yet again, the only thing that separated them was, like, the guy who one day may be called g.o.a.t. >> yeah. joe, when i think of what andy reid has done also, right, with this kansas city chiefs

franchise, he wasn't the obvious guy to be the belichick to someone's brady. i'm going to keep torturing this patriots metaphor. >> torturing lemire, mostly, it's true, but i want to give just a bit of credit to the quality of the game. i didn't know when i was watching it, does america broadly, the hundred ba zillion people watching, do they appreciate the slug fest we got. this was the best defense of andy reid's tenure. this is not what the chiefs requester known for. after watching the secondary shut down a good 9ers offense. it had the feeling of a prestige drama, the tension ratcheting. truly, and i was like, i hope people understand the nuances, the subtleties, look at that 57 yard kick that was basically just a bullet down the middle. >> it was hammered. >> it was crazy and it was those little things and the difference in this game was the special teams mistakes, 9ers missed an

extra point, the fumble when it bounced off the guy's foot. the scariest thing for the rest of the nfl is this wasn't even a great chiefs team compared to other years. they didn't have an explosive offense. kelce had an up and down season. they traded tyreek hill and won two straight super bowls with. a team that's probably going to get better. they'll add some weapons. they are the gold standard right now, and they have that ability, with mahomes at center, the other team looks across the field and goes, we have to be perfect or we can't win. that's the other brady comparison. if you give him a chance, he'll beat you. the 9ers gave him a chance. >> and even when, you know, he was blitzed, he scrambles, he usually read the blitzes. if the blitz came from the right side, he opened up, flipped a pass in the flat to the right side, yeah, it is very hard,

very hard to stop him. now, we've shown great discipline. ten minutes in, john heilemann, we have not said taylor swift's name yet. >> there it is. >> i like it. >> omni present. >> can i have it. >> thank you. >> taylor was, but she made it in there. you can talk about the game if you'd like to. i don't know if you saw the very end. a really moving scene when kelce and taylor swift met up on the field afterwards, really beautiful, i thought. >> i could have done without his rendition of viva las vegas. clearly, you know, for those who are cynical, for those who think this is just another product of taylor swift's plan for world domination, she has a very colorful dating history, and

he's obviously a superhero. there are those who are cynical. i say look at the love on display. it feels very real, and i will say, whether you are a cynic or believe in the romantic side of this, the prospect of the kansas city chiefs now teed up for the three-peat. anybody who's a hater of taylor swift is going to be dealing with this for another year. it's going to be kelce, swift, mahomes for a year. until this time next year. >> i want to thank at the end, don has inspired me. i want to thank president biden for the amazing rigged coordination with pfizer. >> he rigged it perfectly. >> just a masterful cy-op by president biden. >> i want to say, let's show this really quickly, elise. so for people that don't get

this, it was the first thousand or so after he put it out. what's this? this is of course mocking all the maga, ultra maga freaks that were saying that this was all rigged from the very beginning, and this is him mocking the snowflakes. just like we drew it up, elise. >> all my intel on this is just that if you're willing to hug a smelly football player after he's won the super bowl, that's true love. that's true love. and i think you're being a little unfair to kyle shanahan, i still think he's the best coach in the nfl, and i think that, you know, look how far he took brock purdy this year and who knows what's next. >> the first three quarters, they gave the chiefs too much breathing room in the fourth quarter. >> a lot of it was -- it was surprising. a lot of mistakes, and again,

you don't usually see that from the 49ers, jonathan, but a lot of off sides, penalties, fumbles, i mean, they really hurt themselves time and time again. >> yeah, the killer mccaffrey fumble early. we mentioned the special teams blunders, we knew would be an advantage, money on special teams. that's an advantage. purdy was solid. late in the game the chiefs got to him. he missed throws. the 9ers, it was not the offense's throat. maybe should have gone to mccaffrey more. they didn't close the doors. we're going to repeat ourselves here. mahomes is now a top three qb, probably of all time, and his arrow is only pointing up. two of our next guests served the country before running for office. congressional democrats, jason you, and abigail spanberger for

the cia. the two democrats are just back from ukraine, and join us with an update on the war effort there. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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as war rages in both europe and the middle east, donald trump is encouraging russia to attack our nato allies. during a campaign speech in south carolina on saturday, trump recounted a conversation he allegedly had with a fellow world leader while he was president. >> by the way, it was one of those crazy, and someone stood up and said, sir, and he said, they were from a big country. sir. sir, if they don't pay, if we don't pay, what will you do? sir. nobody's saying that. what a jack ass, how stupid would you have to be in that audience to go, oh, wow, did he

really say that? i can't believe a big country president would say that. it's just stupid, like he is now so desperate to support vladimir putin and undercut america's allies in europe, he's making up a sir story. it's not even a good lie for donald trump. like, you can tell he's losing it. like he's losing his touch. this is when elvis, he was so fat, he couldn't even get the scarf around his neck to throw to the audience. he sat there and looked down and sang. remember heilemann when they had to hold the microphone for fat elvis when he was playing piano because he lost all of his moves. this is donald trump. it's a story that a third grader would go, why is he lying to me. and you know, the people in the audience, they can't be that dumb to say, oh, big country

person said, sir, like this guy will do anything to justify defending and supporting vladimir putin and getting us all ready, this is the dangerous part, when he's president again. he's getting us ready for him to be an autocrat. >> sure. >> a dictator, and a guy who's going to tell vladimir putin sweep in. >> play it before we hear it. >> you want me to play it. why would you want to play the tape. >> joe's imitation is better. why would we want to hear the sound. let's go with joe's. >> let's do this. >> one of the presidents of a big country stood up said, well, sir if we don't pay, and we're attacked by russia, will you protect us. i said, you didn't pay. you're delinquent. he said, yes. let's say that happened. no, i would not protect you, in

fact, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. you got to pay your bills. >> it's like, you're fired. >> it's just stupid because it's a lie. nobody said that. what president, did president merkel say that, donald? did president theresa may say that? >> did president macron? who said that? i mean, john heilemann, i'm serious. it's so stupid. the level of stupidity, like to actually believe that story and cheer for it. really, it makes my teeth hurt so mind bogglingly bad. >> to say the thing out loud, heads of state of even not big countries, small countries, heads of state don't refer to each other as sir, as if he's like the white house usher. not the way they talk to each other, and it's an interesting metric you have introduced into our vocabulary. as we chart trump's decline, some of the things we should be monitoring are the quality of

the lies, as they become more transparent, and dumber, that's one sign of kind of terminal decline. another is when the nicknames start to go. he starts coming up with, you know, starts referring to joe biden as cheery joe. i don't know, he's going to have a bad set of nicknames. they're going to decline. you know trump has reached the final stages of ineptitude and political -- >> okay. let's bring in -- >> this is fat elvis at the piano, that's where we are right now. >> and shooting out the screens with the tvs. >> it will happen. >> let's bring in msnbc contributor and the author of the book "how the right lost it," charlie sykes, and former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four star admiral, james staph referee tis dis,

-- james stavridis. he's analyst. >> he's praising orban, he says we need a strong man. said he's going to be a dictator on day one. here he's telling us he's going to encourage vladimir putin a former russian soviet enemy, vladimir putin, to just take over not only nato but other -- i mean, not only ukraine but other nato countries. talk about the dangers of this kind of talk becoming mainstream in american politics. >> terribly dangerous and lives will be lost, particularly if he goes the next step and does something or attempts to do something truly foolish, ignorant, and that would be to pull out of nato. i mean, let's just do the numbers for one second.

nato is 32 countries. it's 55% of the world's gdp. it's 3 million troops, active duty, well trained competent. almost all volunteers. it's got a collective defense budget of a trillion dollars. and, oh, by the way, on the point of defense budgets and back to the sir, will you pay us, defend us if we don't pay? again, let's do the numbers for a minute. the u.s. spends $7 billion a year on defense. the europeans collectively spend over 300 billion. it's the second largest defense budget in the world. that's more than china spends, and by the way, it's three times what russia spends. and then the other part, joe, in your rendition of it was pretty accurate. it's just the condescension, the arrogance. john heilemann's exactly right.

i have been to a million nato summits. i have never heard a head of state call another head of state anything but by their first name, and so, you see donald trump treating nato like it's a protection racket. hey, you've got a nice little country here, be ashamed if something happened to it. it fails on every level, frankly. >> well, the "wall street journal" editorial board is also weighing in on the ex-president's comments, the editors write in part, mr. trump's riff also comes in the context of his lobbying against more u.s. military aid for ukraine. he boasts about his admiration for mr. putin and his bromance with the dictator during the -- the only way to do that is to deny ukraine more weapons, and

tell president volodymyr zelenskyy to give mr. putin what he wants. the word for that isn't peace. it's appeasement. the u.s. should be having an election debate over the growing dangers to u.s. security and how to counter them. instead, we have an incumbent who has presided over the collapse of u.s. deterrence and a gop front runner who dotes on dictators. no wonder mr. putin is looking so confident these days. >> the "wall street journal" had to throw in that line just for its readers that mr. biden is not discourage deterrence, it couldn't be any further from the truth. what he has done in ukraine is extraordinary. >> what he wants to do. >> i mean, just extraordinary how he's built that up. and the same with israel. what's happened there. it's just -- we'll talk about that later. it's become such a mess with netanyahu. but charlie sykes, the "wall

street journal" editorial page for the most part nails it. talking about just how dangerous this is, and, yes, talks about 2018 when jonathan lemire asked the question to vladimir or donald trump who he trusted more, the russians over his own intel community. but this is sinking even further for donald trump and the "wall street journal" editorial page is right. this is extraordinarily dangerous. his bromance with vladimir putin. russian hoax, no russian hoax. no russian hoax. there continues to be an admiration there that makes america weaker, that makes america less safe, that makes western democracy endangered. >> yeah, this is fat elvis, but it's fat elvis with nukes. we have to balance out the clownishness with how dangerous it is. the "wall street journal" is right, you have to put this in

context. this comment over the weekend is not a oneoff. it is consistent with what donald trump has been saying for years, what he has been signaling for years. and the rest of the world is listening to them. and, you know, the way to start wars, of course, is to have miscalculations. and he is signaling weakness. he is signaling appeasement, signaling surrender. there are real world consequences to the things donald trump is saying. he's an inconsistent, erratic man, but one of the consistencies of donald trump is his willingness to bow his knee to vladimir putin, to ask for favors from vladimir putin. >> constantly. >> he will attack everyone this the world. i can't find any reference where he has ever criticized vladimir putin, and again, we have nato watching, our allies are watching. vladimir putin is watching. the chinese are watching what donald trump is saying, and again as the "wall street journal" points out, this is not just an off the cuff remark at a

rally. this comes amid his campaign to basically kneecap the aid to ukraine right now. people ought to take this very very seriously because it feels as if we are sleep walking into a global catastrophe while we're focusing on maybe some of the atmospherics of american politics. this is real and it will have real world consequences as the admiral said. >> jonathan, charlie is right, and the "wall street journal" editorial page is right. not only is he saying he's going to encourage russia to invade our nato allies, he's also actively right now working and intimidating republicans in congress to kill funding for ukraine to basically turn the country over to vladimir putin. >> he already pushed them to kill the border bill which had

national security for ukraine. including foreign aid, a lock to ukraine, but there's a real sense that even if the senate does pass it, it won't get through the house, largely because donald trump has poisoned fellow republicans in the house against helping ukraine. let's recall before trump went to helsinki, he was this close to pulling the u.s. out then. we shouldn't doubt him if he says he will do it. other reactions to this from over the weekend, include from republican senators marco rubio, a member of the foreign relations committee. yesterday, he scrambled to try to defend trump's comments. >> i mean, he was talking about a story that he talked about happened in the past. by the way, donald trump was president, and he didn't pull us out of nato. he's telling a story, and donald trump was not a member of the council of foreign relations, he doesn't talk like a traditional

politician. he said nato was broke or busted and he took over because people weren't paying their dues and told the story about how he used leverage to get people to step up to the plate and become more active in nato. virtually every american president in some way have complained about other countries in nato not doing enough. trump is the first to express this these terms. i have zero concerns. he's been president before. i know exactly what he has done and will do with the nato alliance. >> first off, pathetic, secondly, a fact check. there aren't nato dos. countries are encouraged to put in 2% of gdp. we have seen them pick up level of contributions in recent years, and elise, they have done so, not because of donald trump's threats but because president joe biden has revitalized nato as it tries to stand together against russian aggression. it sure looks like donald trump is willing to help out his pal vladimir putin again, and a lot of republicans, like marco rubio

going to go along with it. >> i have no problem with pressuring nato companies to pay their fair share and pony up, so we're not carrying the bulk of the burden. what i have a problem is with republicans like marco rubio letting donald trump say it's okay for russia to invade nato allies. that is so ridiculous, and it's such a contrast from the marco rubio of 2016 in the republican primary. a former hawk, who, can you imagine if he said any of that stuff then. and what we have heard from former trump officials is that he is going to make good on his craziest statements next go around. that's what john kelly has been warning. that's what john bolton is warning. he's telling us what he's going to do, and we should be prepared for that. coming up on october 28th, 2016, james comey went public about hillary clinton's e-mails and changed the course of the presidential campaign. our next guest is writing about that and the parallels to last

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coming up on "morning joe." >> and i went this. [ bleep ] show stinks. it stinks. i hate it. i'm done. [ bleep ] you. i quit. >> thankfully, larry david was not ranting about "morning joe" in that moment. your interview was amazing. we're going to show you what inspired that meltdown, one of many, in joe's sit-down conversation with "the curb" creator. i'm jealous. i'm not happy that i wasn't there. i wanted to go, but not that much. >> not that bad, i guess. >> we'll be right back. >> larry will be here straight ahead. ahead.

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you see what's going on here? >> it's a courageous stand. i mean, you know maybe it's not rosa parks on the bus, but, you know, this is pretty important. >> this is amazing. >> i don't want to get all preachy about this, but what did jesus say? i was thirsty and you gave me water. that's what larry did here. i'm wondering, are republicans like really going to push getting this guy sent to jail? >> wow. >> the story gaining momentum, too, political figures, celebrities across the country reacting to larry david's brave stand. >> can you believe that? >> this larry david they're talking about seems like quite a fellow. he's really something. >> we know better. >> our cameo appearance in last night's new episode of "curb your enthusiasm," earlier this month we had larry david and susie espen on preview the final season. before that, i got a chance to

visit larry's production offices in california. take a look. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> let's start with your corporate jet. that is nice. >> that is so low. joe. i don't even know where they came from. >> didn't you fly that to cop 28? >> i don't know where that came from. let's move on, okay. >> you've got hitler books. let's go from the corporate jets to the hitler books. >> maureen send message hitler books. >> why does she send you hitler books? >> she knows i like movies about nazi germany. and that's me. look how happy i am when i first started doing standup. >> did you ever think that your

dream of being a comedian wasn't going to work? >> i didn't even start standup until i was 27. so there was no dream of being a comedian. i was a hopeless case in my 20s. i didn't know what i was going to do. my parents sent me to a therapist. i remember once when i was a private chauffeur, i saw a guy from college walk by car, and he was wearing an immaculate three-piece suit and sees me in this chauffeur's outfit, and we locked eyes. he couldn't even bring himself to nod or do anything. he just turned his head and continued walking. and that's when i knew that something had to change. >> i started comedy in like '71 or something, and he was just hanging around. i didn't know at the time that he lived a block and a half away in a place that defies

description. anyway, but they was so funny, larry, on stage, and he liked my work too. and he became best friends suddenly. i mean, we just did everything for each other. >> you guys were both pretty subversive comics. >> yeah. >> and what changed? >> i decided to, you know, go on to become a standup. >> and that didn't go well, though, either, did it? >> i didn't bomb all the time. i'd say i bombed frequently. it was unpleasant. >> how did you get into the writing? how did you get into the snl writing? >> well, i was on this show in the early '80s. they got me from my stand up. it was a show like "saturday night live." it was called "fridays." >> oh, "fridays," yeah. >> yeah. so i was on there. from there, that's how i got the writing job on snl. it's 1984. it's about six weeks into the

show, the sketches that i'm writing are doing well at the read through. the writers like them, the actors like them. producer doesn't like them. they do a few in dress rehearsal, and they get cut before air. and then finally, maybe around the 7th week, they cut another one. this is five minutes before the show, and the producer is sitting in his director's chair. and can i curse here? >> yeah. >> i went this. [ bleep ] show stinks. it stinks. i hate it. i'm done. [ bleep ] you. i quit. i get home and kramer. >> right. >> the real kramer, the guy who the character in the show was based on, he goes, what are you doing here, you're supposed to be watching the show. i said, well, you know, i just had a fit and i quit, and i go, so stupid, i just cost myself x

amount of dollars, and i could live on that money for two years. let's face it the standup wasn't going to support me. and he says, well, you should go back in on monday morning and pretend it never happened. >> what should i do? >> maybe you can just go back. >> you mean just walk into the staff meeting on monday morning like it never happened? >> sure. >> i take my seat at the meeting, he goes to each writer, asks what they're thinking about and working on, one, two, three, four, he gets to me, well, i'm thinking about a sketch, and that was it. >> it worked. >> and it worked. >> a stool. >> yeah, for the elevator man. >> come here, come here. >> you take a job in a new building. would you want there to be a stool in the elevator? >> well, i wouldn't want to sit if i was taking people up and down, but i guess if i was waiting in the lobby it would be okay if there was a stool. >> how come no chair? what? >> i couldn't help but notice

that you don't have a chair. have they ever offered you a chair? >> no. >> would you like a chair? >> i suppose if they gave me one, i'd sit down. >> let's talk about "seinfeld" because people say it's a show about nothing, but it was actually inspired by shopping in a korean grocery store, is that right? >> after we performed, we were going to split a cab back to the west side. this is jerry and i. and we stopped off at a grocery store before we split a cab. and we're in the interested in show. we both said, this is the show. >> you have the salsa after the salsa. >> what? >> yeah, right. >> and i love this, you go on

your wall the initial reactions. >> they recommended a pass on the show because they didn't like the characters. they didn't like anything about it. >> who's the nbc executive who deserves credit. >> the guy's name was rick ludwin. >> who had the idea at hbo to go, let's do this mockumentary and had the foresight to say this is going to work? >> chris albrecht saw the special. i hadn't done standup in ten years, so it was sort of like a mock documentary of me doing standup. >> it shows a number of movies

right here. >> okay. fine. what are you doing? give it to me. >> no, no. talk to them about the porn, please. >> make a call right now about the porn. >> hbo will cover the porn. >> i don't care. >> so i invented some scenes, which became sort of what "curb" became. chris albrecht watched this and said we should do this as a series. >> what's the tough part about it? >> it's like three jobs and it takes about 18 months. it's about six months per job. the first job is the writing. i do that with jeff shaffer. >> is show is written three times basically. we do an outline and every scene is a live rewrite. then we write it for the final

time in the edit room. we have to make a choice. >> which one you're going to do? >> yeah. >> so the actors do improv. they'll do maybe four or five different takes. >> these editors are brilliant. there's two takes. they check it off. they are home before lunch. this, we are stitching and weaving. >> you have to do five or seven takes and pick out sort of the all star team. >> i'm exhausted. >> i usually have a dress code for him, but he obviously didn't abide by it today. >> look at the socks. >> i feel like you've gone way over your appetizer allotment. >> allotment? >> well, there's three of us. we each get a third. >> it's an unwritten rule. >> there's two larry davids.

holy [ bleep ]. >> people who hadn't acted in years, he would bring them back and give them their deserved moment of glory on a great curbed episode. >> she got sicker and we had to bring her back to the hospital. >> she's in the hospital? >> well, not right now. >> dad? >> she's dead. there was a funeral. >> why wasn't i at the funeral? why didn't you call me? >> she told me not to bother you. >> this is so funny. shelly berman is so funny in this scene. >> when you set this up, though,

it's not line by line by line. >> we completely winged it. yeah. >> larry, you can't look me in the eye and toast. >> look you in the eye? >> yeah. >> towards what end? >> because that's what people do. they look at each other in the eye. >> what is this, a seance? >> we all play versions of ourself. suzy is playing a version of herself amped up. >> everybody else on the cast, a version of themselves tweaked a little bit. jb is not playing himself. he's not playing jb smoov. he's playing a character. >> you got to go? >> yes, i got to go. >> get on out of here.

>> excuse me. you just spat on my shoe. stop. >> he's making this stuff up. >> right. >> in a character. that's way harder than what i'm doing. it's still brilliant. >> oh! what the [ bleep ]! >> you put the fruit on the table. >> one thing i love about "curb" is that the laughing is genuine. when someone says something funny, people are laughing because it's funny. >> larry makes it look easy. i think all great artists make it look easy because they've put in thousands of hours what's the right way to go. this guy, his whole life is funny to him. he writes everything down that strikes him funny. that's why he knows at the end of a season, you know, i'm not

coming back again. >> what are people going to see this season? what should they expect? >> pretty much what they got from the other seasons. >> so if they've seen other seasons, there's no reason to watch this season, is that what you're telling me? >> they don't have to. if you want to watch it, you watch it. >> this little section might not make it to air. >> do we have to do this much longer? >> who thought that section was going to be a good idea? g to be?

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#1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ first half did not have a lot of action. it was almost an hour into the game before we got our first glimpse of taylor celebrating a long completion by kansas city. then the chiefs fumbled and travis kelce was seen yelling at

coach andy reid. i think he's yelling, you embarrassed me in front of my girlfriend? at one point, tay-tay was caught chugging her beer. have fun, taylor, but please make sure you have a designated driver for your private jet. >> steven colbert in his post-super bowl game monologue. the kansas city chiefs beat the san francisco 49ers for their second straight super bowl win and their third in five seasons. kaylee hartung has the highlights from las vegas. >> reporter: the kansas city chiefs are champions again. their overtime victory over the san francisco 49ers making them the first team to win back-to-back super bowls in almost 20 years.

>> viva las vegas! >> reporter: the chiefs' hard-fought win over the niners a nail biter until the end. the chiefs dominated through the first half. >> pancaked by armstead! >> reporter: tempers flared on the sidelines. >> he comes over to andy, he goes, keep me in. >> reporter: in the second half, the mahomes magic tied it up, forcing just the second overtime in super bowl history. the final play punctuating a clutch drive. the moment catching wide receiver cole hardman completely by surprise. >> he had no idea. i said, dude, we just won the super bowl. >> reporter: and breaking the hearts of 49ers faithful who came into sunday as a favorite.

taylor swift hand in hand with mama kelce. she sealed the victory with a super bowl kiss with boyfriend travis kelce. the pop star was ready to party, throwing back a drink in the stands. the energy on the field only amped up at halftime. ♪♪ usher rolled onto the world's biggest stage. his career-spanning spectacle bringing the heat, featuring surprise guests lil' john and ludacris. and a slow jam with alicia keys. they were far from the only stars shining in vegas. lebron james, lady gaga, jay-z and beyonce all in attendance. beyonce appeared in a verizon

super bowl commercial and dropped two new songs from her new album. still, it was the chiefs who were over the moon. >> you got to fight for your right to party! >> this is a once in a lifetime opportunity i've been able to go through three times now. man, it gets sweeter every time, baby. >> reporter: now with three super bowl wins in just five years, kansas city's dynasty dreams are coming true. >> nbc's kaylee hartung with that report. and to washington now, where defense secretary lloyd austin is hospitalized and admitted into a critical care unit at walter reed national military medical center. meanwhile, on the presidential campaign trail donald trump spent the weekend mocking the military service of his primary opponent's husband and offering to let russia attack nato allies. gabe gutierrez reports.

>> reporter: this morning, defense secretary lloyd austin in critical care, hospitalized at walter reed again yesterday, this time for symptoms of a bladder issue, according to the pentagon. overnight, doctors saying that austin was admitted to the critical care unit for supportive care and close monitoring. last month, the defense secretary faced scrutiny for not telling the white house he underwent surgery for prostate cancer until days later. now, the pentagon announcing publicly he's transferring duties to his deputy. concern for austin coming as president biden is on defense politically after that special counsel's report saying he faced memory issues. a new poll finds most americans believe both president biden and republican frontrunner donald trump are too old for another term. though he continued to attack biden over the weekend, trump himself is under fire after a wild weekend rally where the former president encouraged

russia to attack u.s. allies if they don't pay their dues in nato. >> i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. you got to pay. >> what bothers me about this is, don't take the side of a thug who kills his opponents. >> reporter: haley also speaking out about trump's personal attacks on her husband at the same rally. >> what happened to her husband? where is he? he's gone. >> reporter: haley writing back, mike was deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. >> donald trump clearly doesn't understand that in south carolina we love our military men and women. >> wow. that's nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. joining us now, editor at the nonpartisan group protect democracy, amanda carpenter.

and molly jong-fast and historian jon meacham. also we have jonathan lemire, mike barnicle and elise jordan all back with us as well. i'll start with these comments about nato. jon meacham, just as it pertains to -- well, there is no precedent, is there? >> no, no. the post world war ii order which for all of its imperfections maintained a basic peace, has maintained a basic peace, has tended to check the appetites and ambitions and designs of dictators, is under threat from within. this is abraham lincoln's birthday, which i'm sure you'll be having a cake later with the great man about this. but lincoln said early in 1837

that if america ever falls, it won't be because of a foreign force, it will be because of an internal enemy of the constitution. that's what's happens. it's very clear. the question before the country could not be clearer. do you want a president who defends the constitution and an order that has proven successful, creating american prosperity and security? or do you want someone who was irrationally and for his own purposes trying to tear that down? that's the question we face. it will be framed again and again and again. this is just today's framing. >> right. what i see happening, which again, could be a real turning point in our history, is you don't just have people at these rallies cheering on these

incredible statements, anti-democratic states, to say the least, but now you have the house bending to his will and impacting legislation that perhaps both parties would have been very constructive at this point for our country and for our foreign policy. and donald trump is able to squash it. it appears that cancer is now spreading into the senate. >> it's a very interesting analogy. the ancients used to talk about the body politic, because the health of the city, the health of the country was as important as one's own health. corruption meant disease. crisis comes from the word the course of a disease where a patient lives or dies. it is a disease. we don't do ourselves any favors by pretending it's not and wanting to be kind to our 401(k)

republican friends who are enabling this. there are not at this hour two functioning political constitutional parties. there just aren't. you can argue about the left and say, oh, but what about, but what about, but there's nothing on the left that's not recognizable within the vernacular of american politics. what is clearly visible on the right -- and you've just pinpointed it -- is an illiberalism and un-americanism that is removing them from that conversation. the only way to fix this, i think, is to beat them, beat them at the ballot box. they can react poorly and try to change the rules, but that's the way to do this, because as lincoln said, all men act on incentives. the reason you saw senator rubio

and others out there is because they think that's going to help them. >> you said beat them at the ballot box. i'm going to put you in an awkward position, because i know you have some ties with the biden administration, helping with speech writing at times, but i think you can do this. i'm curious how that happens in an environment right now where the air waves, whatever you call podcast air waves, websites, publications are littered with disinformation. i know this was the case in the past, but i think it's at a new level where you have several networks, but primarily fox news and they're on a loop all day about biden's age. they're on a loop all day about biden talking about the mexican president when he was talking about egypt. they're on a loop all day about that. the loop on trump -- this is just a fact -- it happens to

play into our outlooks, but you could run trump's gaffes and you wouldn't have enough time in our four-hour show. yet, there's a totally different standard. how do you beat them at their game? how do you vote them out when people are being fed a lot of bad information? >> the question is what people are taking that information and ingesting it, right? by and large, it seems to me you have a base of folks who have made a decision that trump is their heroic figure and they're going to follow him no matter what. i hate to say this. they are not reachable people. they've made a decision, and the only way their change their mind is, i think, if they lose. the people who are reachable are

very few, right? they are probably not watching this conversation. it's probably a couple of million people spread across seven states, six or seven swing states. so the story you tell them is the full story of what this choice is about. president biden, as you say, he's my friend. i help him when i can. there's no secret about that. i think that he has proven himself again and again to be a hugely effective president. i have no anxieties about his capacity to make important decisions for the country. his political question is having me say that has virtually no effect. he's got to show it. you can't tell voters things. you have to show them. so you tell a story, you have a president engaged in the life of

the country in which his capacities, which are formidable, are on display. and those voters who are going to save us are these independent and swing voters. when i say save us, i mean that. i didn't think we'd be sitting here talking like this four or five years ago. just look at what trump said yesterday and what he's going to keep saying. so the important thing to me is tell the story of what has made america great, which is a devotion to the constitution, to the declaration and to sanity. coming on "morning joe," president biden is criticizing food companies over a practice known as shrinkflation, making products smaller while keeping prices the same. we'll show you his call for action ahead of last night's super bowl. plus, we'll talk to andrew

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it's super bowl sunday. if you're anything like me, you like to be surrounded by a snack or two when watching the big game. you might have noticed bags of chips are smaller but they're still charging just as much. as an ice cream lover, what makes me the most angry is ice cream cartons have shrunk in size but not in price. i've had enough of shrinkflation. it's a ripoff. give me a break. the american public is tired of being played for suckers. i'm calling on companies to put a stop to this. let's make sure businesses do the right thing now.

>> president biden taking to social media to complain about shrinkflation ahead of yesterday's big game. for more on this and more, let's go to the coanchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. what's he actually doing to prevent shrinkflation? >> i don't think he's doing much to prevent shrinkflation. i think he's saying, i'm regular joe, and i have the same upset and frustrations as the american public does. i think there is a little bit of that across the country right now. i think we've all seen less chips in the bag and we're paying as much if not more for it. whether that's an effective campaign or not to shame ceos or businesses, i think, is probably a hard one. the truth is you're going to have less chips or the bag is going to cost more. that's sort of the gamble at play here. obviously he's gotten a lot of attention on social media. by the way, i don't know if you

saw the news this morning, but the biden campaign planning to start a tiktok account as well. >> oh boy. >> that's interesting because, of course, so many federal agencies are not allowed to have tiktok on their phones. it raises questions about who's going to manage the campaign and from what phone and device they're going to be doing it from. again, making some waves. i don't know. i think this is in lieu of doing a traditional interview. i think that goes back to what you were talking about with jon meacham, which is should he be doing interviews out there showing what he can or can't say. jay clayton who used to run the sec under trump, who's not a trump lover at all, we were

talking about some of the comments trump made over the weekend about nato and the like. i said, well, who would you vote for today? he said, well, what's the choice? i said biden's the choice. he said, well, then i'm voting for trump. it really does get to this idea of what's happening and i think explains at least a little bit of the polls. who knows where we're going to be in six or eight months from now? >> that so interesting. thank you for sharing that. it's also frighten ingfrighteni. i'm so concerned for the sake of this democracy because people are not adding up the problem clearly. let's talk about a bigger gamble. that would be super bowl ads. how much were folks paying to get, i don't know, ten, 20, 30 seconds in that precious time? >> $7 million for 30 seconds. apple paid for the halftime

show, which was probably something on the order of $50 million. in terms of licensing fees over the next ten years, the nfl set to get about $23 billion. this is clearly the one piece of programming that does better than just about anything else on tv by a long shot. you could argue it's keeping the tv business in business. >> there you go. it sure is. did you have a favorite one, andrew? >> i'm going with dunkin. dunkin donuts i thought was the winner. what about you? >> i liked the stop hate commercials for sure. >> love that. >> thank you so much. molly, your latest opinion piece is called "robert hur took

a page from the james comey playbook and made it worse." you write, the report is being seen by some as an exoneration saying that no criminal charges are warranted in the classified documents case against president biden, but hur, who used to work for the trump administration, couldn't let biden off the hook entirely, especially 269 days before an election, hur, a member of the republican party that now largely works as a campaign arm for the former president, delivered the goods for his party. sure, he found no legal basis to charge biden, but, but, but hur proceeded to editorialize about biden delivering right-wing talking points up on a platter. molly, i'll go to you, then i'd love to hear from amanda on this. yes, he did that.

it's amazing, because joe and i have been opposite on this. he's been more upset about it. i've heard a lot of people on the phone just freaking out about this. i'm thinking, let's not play into their hands. let's look at what the special prosecutor's report found. no charges were warranted. so he spontaneously added some color in there to try and hurt president biden. that's fine. it's still the process. the process shows there will be no charges against joe biden, while we have this long list of legal actions lined up against donald trump. i just don't want democrats to get tripped up and actually start criticizing and undermining the process and the role of a special prosecutor, when this is a one-week story. okay. talk about his age all you want. he'll go out there, he'll do

well. he's stutter a little bit, and fox news will act like the world is falling apart. he'll act like himself, same guy talking for the last 20, 30, 40 years. this, to me, is going to pass. i think undermining the existence of a special prosecutor and the function of his report is actually going to end up hurting democrats in the long run. >> so i think that's a really interesting point that i hadn't heard. i do agree norms are important. the reason we're so far along here is because norms have not been followed. i would say i don't think that hur is a good faith actor and i think that 345 pages of that show that. he's not a neurologist, right? if you want to weigh in on legal things, that's fine.

i do think he sort of picked up things that are tactically tactics that people use and went and sort of drew conclusions that were not his conclusions to draw. >> everything that molly just said and what mika just pointed out is all accurate and it's out there. but isn't the problem that it is now, all of it, in the rear-view mirror and the only thing left is the public's wondering about the president's age and his abilities? >> the word to describe this report was gratuitous. there were cheap shots. i think we can all understand why biden was sort of triggered.

that said, his age is baked into the cake. we're going to have two older candidates in this election. if joe biden has a bad day, he might fall off his bike at the beach in rehoboth. if trump has a bad day, he might blow up the european alliance leading to the deaths of millions of ukrainians. we should keep our eye on the big picture. >> only one of those candidates currently faces multiple criminal charges. poll after poll suggests the age issue doesn't stick to trump the way it does to biden. why do you think that is, first? and secondly, is there anything the biden campaign can do to make this more of a neutral issue? >> we've been dealing with this charge since the 2020 elections. he was basement joe, and he was still able to overcome that. it's going to get worse. he is older. what biden needs to do is

reassure the public the government is not just about him. we have so much focus on the presidency, only biden, only trump. it's so much bigger than that. especially talking to traditional republican voters who are horrified by this isolationism, america first wing of the party. tucker carlson was giving an open platform to vladimir putin the other day to spew his conspiracies against this. biden would do well to strengthen democracies and our allies. >> until there's a legitimate clapback on fox news and other networks, none of this stuff is reaching the right people. fox news lies all day about joe

biden. in fact, when this hur document came out, i was flipping around, and they were saying, oh my gosh, joe biden's documents were loose in his garage and flying in the air. meanwhile, donald trump has his locked up on an island. literally that was said as if it were true. nobody claps back. nobody from the white house goes on fox news and tries to tell the truth. i don't know if fox news won't have them or if the people they're having are weak. there's got to be a very strong voice that goes on these networks and speaks to these issues in a way that can be heard. right now, they need a real response to a lot of different things that are floating out there in the form of disinformation or veiled lies that were on a network that was

once considered a news network, but is really kind of an arm of the trump campaign. amanda? >> i've got to give credit to nikki haley on cbs news talking about why donald trump was flat-out wrong to use this kind of rhetoric against nato and talk about this deal he's going to strike to make the nato countries pay up more. what's really striking about marco rubio when he gave the reaction that he did, if you squinted really hard, you could see him trying to give cover to this by saying, well, don't pay attention to trump, because in the senate we got it and we're going to make sure it's covered. this lie that gets promoted that somehow this is all just rhetoric from donald trump and we can ignore it is simply not true. if he becomes president, he'll have the powers to operationalize these promises. it's so misleading for

republicans to say don't pay attention to trump. meanwhile, we're going to quietly pass this funding and try not to wake the bear that is the rise isolationist movement in the party. >> what would you do if you were running the white house comms? >> i think it's important to take a moment to realize joe biden is not a candidate for pundit. i even wrote a piece for the "washington post" saying he should drop out after he lost those two primary contests. he did not get the "times" endorsement. you know who likes him at the "new york times"? the elevator lady. biden won because he won south carolina. this is a voter's candidate, not a pundit's candidate. some of the things we in the

pundit industrial complex might find squeamish and cringe is actually kind of smart. shrinkflation, that's not for us. that's for people who are like, why are there ten chips in my bag? it's kind of smart. they have said they're getting him out there to talk to people. i don't know if you saw him calling the parents of the fallen servicemen. that family released the video, biden didn't. it was one of the most moving things i've ever seen. they were like weeping and he was telling them he was going to promote their son posthumously. let's think about ronald reagan. ronald reagan was incredibly old. he was seven years younger than

biden, but in 1981 he was so old and he swept. >> he also turned around the narrative on being old effectively in the debate. >> the choice is like the guy who's kind of old or the guy who might nuke someone just because he feels like it. everyone is freaked out about the age thing. i'm like, nope, don't fall for their game. they want us to undermine the special prosecutor, the process. no, no, not doing it. staying very, very clear of all of that. molly jong-fast and amanda carpenter, thank you both for being on this hour. coming up, we'll speak with

two democratic lawmakers in the house jason crow and abigail spanberger following their recent trips to kyiv as the senate moves closer to passing a foreign aid bill for ukraine. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60,

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unions are going to be out of business. i'm telling you, if the teamsters endorse biden -- here's the good news. most of the teamsters are going to vote for me anyway, and the union and just workers. but you get illegal taxpayer funded lawyers. so they have millions of dollars in this agreement, which we killed. i think it's dead. you can never say it, because bad bills always come back to life. >> yeah, you killed it. former president trump at an nra event on friday taking credit for tanking the bipartisan border deal.

the president is now trying to pass a stand-alone foreign aid package to send $95 billion in aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan. if the bill is passed by the senate, it will head to the house, where its future in the republican-led chamber remains uncertain since the bill does not include border provisions, unlike the bill that republicans just killed that did address border security. this is a conundrum. meanwhile, in ukraine officials say a drone strike in the city of kharkiv on saturday killed seven people, including three children, after it hit an oil depot. it comes as members of the house intelligence committee visited ukraine's capital last week, meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. joining us now, two members who were on that trip, democrat abigail spanberger of virginia.

she's a former cia officer. and jason crow of colorado, a u.s. army veteran who served our country in both iraq and afghanistan. it's good to have you both. i first want to ask about the trip. congresswoman, give us a sense of just is it getting to the point of dire in terms of the need for aid? >> it is dire, the need for aid as the ukrainians continue to fight for their freedom and their democracy. the purpose of this trip was to bring a bipartisan group of lawmakers, three republicans, two democrats on this trip, who went to kyiv and met not only with president zelenskyy but members of the ukrainian government, as well as our own military leaders in poland to discuss the impact of aid not only on ukraine's ability to win this war, but also on our own u.s. national security interests. the need to pass this bill in the senate and the house is

extraordinarily vital certainly for our ukrainian allies and partners, but also for u.s. national security interests. >> congressman crow i am certain the very people you went to see and speak with are watching our politics here in the united states. what were some of their thoughts on what is going on here, especially as it pertains to aid for ukraine? >> good morning. i mean, they're certainly scratching their head. they're fighting and dying for their freedom and their democracy. when we say this is aid, this is not charity. we're not giving a charitable contribution to ukraine. we're going this because this is in america's national security interest to have a stable and prosperous europe. europe is our single largest economic trading partner. we have 100,000 troops in europe. europe is our largest security partner. for less than 5% of our annual

defense budget, we are protecting our troops and securing europe. over half of this money goes directly to american workers and businesses who are building the weapons and equipment that we're sending to ukraine. this is actually a really good deal. you know, the rest of the world and certainly a lot of americans know this is a good deal. we have to get it over the senate line. >> congressman crow, as you know from your younger life, the world is filled with danger. what do we do about the danger from within? the idea that you belong to a body of politicians, the house of representatives, where huge numbers of people on the republican side of the aisle seem to be rejecting both past history as well as the daily deadlines we read about lack of munitions, lack of supply for the ukrainian army fighting

russia. >> you're right. we're fighting our own battle for democracy here at home. the rest of the world sees that too. the idea is not to give in, not to fall into despair, but rather to continue to fight the battle, to do good, to govern, to show people good things can happen, that we can deliver for them. i'm very optimistic this year that we have a great track record to run on. we have delivered for the american people in incredible ways. our economy is recovering. we have done a lot of amazing things in the last couple of years under joe biden's leadership. we're going to take that message to folks. that is the solution. we're not going to act like the other side, because we're not them. >> congresswoman, the images coming out of rafah in the last day have been horrifying. this weekend president biden and netanyahu supposedly had a conversation where biden asked

for the aid to be conditional on protecting civilians. it does not seem that the operation was approached that way. how should the u.s. use the leverage of our $14 billion in this bill to do more for civilians? >> well, we as the united states congress need to demonstrate that we are committed to the safety and security of civiians civilians. we've talked about the military aid to israel, to ukraine and to taiwan, but in this bill as well is humanitarian support for palestinian civilians. let me be very clear on this issue. for anyone concerned about the safety and security of anyone in israel now or long into the future, ensuring that israel and the united states are partnering not just in israel's efforts to go after the hamas terrorists

who committed the atrocities in october, but also supporting and ensuring the safety of innocent civilians throughout gaza and the west bank. >> democratic members of the house intelligence committee jason crow of colorado and abigail spanberger of virginia, thank you both very much for coming on this morning. we really appreciate it. up next, we'll go live to the federal courthouse in ft. pierce, florida, where former president trump is expected to attend today's hearing related to his handling of classified documents. "morning joe" will be right back. joe" will be right ckba ♪everything i do that's for my health is an accomplishment.♪

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documents found at former president donald trump's mar-a-lago estate. msnbc legal contributor katie phang joins us from sought side the courthouse in ft. pierce. katie, what can you tell us about this hearing which is going on right now? >> reporter: there's about 100 supporters of donald trump at the back of this federal courthouse in ft. pierce. why are they in the back and not the front? there was a caravan of suvs. supporters were thrilled to see donald trump arrive at the courthouse. i don't know how exciting it's going to be because nobody is allowed inside the courthouse hearing themselves. these are closed to expert hearings. what that means is the defense beginning at 9:30 this morning meets with judge aileen cannon to be able to discuss their theories of their defenses in the case, notably walt nauta and carlos de oliveira, the other co-defendants are not present. donald trump is not expected to say anything, but think about how unusual this is, for a criminal defendant to be able to sit in a closed setting with his

judge presiding over his criminal case with his lawyers present. the government is not allowed to be present. this afternoon beginning at 3:00, the government returns to be able to explain to judge aileen cannon why should she agree with them to be able to keep certain items of classified information not turned over durst the course of discovery to the defense. cifa, the classified information procedures act, allows for a very strict procedure. what's unusual about what's happening today is exactly what we just said, the fact that donald trump would be here attending a hearing with his lawyers and where the defense is having this opportunity to be able to speak to the court about this, but they're looking for more, they being the defense, mika. the defense wants to have access to certain filings that normally they would not get access to. they have filed a motion for access to these filings. these are really important documents. they include sword declarations from the intelligence community explaining why each and every item of classified information

is top secret, why it is so important to keep it classified. we'll have to see at the close of the hearings whether judge cannon agrees with the government to keep certain documents either completely away from the defense or allow redactions or substitutions of that information. >> how long does this -- do you think these hearings will take? >> reporter: today it's been slotted to have the defense go from 9:30 to 2:00, if they take that long, and then the government returns from 3:00 to 5:00. the government began its side of this process on january 31st for three hours when they met with judge cannon. we should have a ruling thereafter. i will also remind our viewers that there's a process under the cifa section that allows for an immediate appeal if the government doesn't agree with what judge cannon rules. >> katie phang, thank you very much. we'll be watching "the katie phang show" saturdays at noon eastern right here on msnbc.

up next, a look at some of the stories making front page headlines across the country including new warns about the resurgence of a highly contagious disease once considered to be eliminated in the united states. "morning joe" will be right back. states. "morning joe" will be right back i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu,

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a look at a few of today's headline across the country. the "houston chronicle" leading with the shooting inside a texas mega church yesterday. law enforcement says a woman wearing a trench coat carrying a long rifle and had a child with her walked into joel oseen's lakewood church. she was killed. the child was hit by gunfire and was taken to the hospital in critical condition. investigators say they have not identified a motive. wheel stay on that. "the chicago tribune" is highlighting the ongoing

shortage of adderall and other medications to treat adhd. the high demand combined with low out put from lawmakers have prolonged the shortages. pharmaceutical companies say they aren't getting enough ingredients to make the medication. a position the drug enforcement agency defuts. the "indianapolis star" reports multiple states are reporting new cases of measles. the cdc issued an emergency warning last month after identifying cases in several states with some tied directly to international travelers. the highly contagious virus was declared eliminated in the u.s. back in 2000. that does it form us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern time. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," donald trump back in court. the former president arriving just moments ago