the senate right now. senator butler is not reelecting, and the race for the sea is really heating. up congressman schiff, congressman katie porter and barbara lee are vying for that seat. but until that race has decided in november, senator butler will continue to represent a great state of california. and all of, that is why i'm really looking forward to talking with her this week at howard university. it'll be her first major sit- down interview. me at noon eastern, msnbc. i am hi jen that's awesome. i'm not going question you how you got that interview, i'm very jealous. >> thank you, she's the kind of person you're excited to see in

elected office, you know. we need a little hope these days. >> exactly. well done. thanks my friend. much appreciated. thank you at home for joining us. there's so much going on in the news right now. so much going on in the news just today. i do feel it's one of those days when the world is trying to make us feel like we're not alone. in the nation of panama, they have a rich conservative businessman who is a former president, since leaving the presidency recently. he was convicted to money laundering charges and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

the parol board rejected his appeal. and since then, he has moved into the nicaraguan embassy in his country. because nicaragua has offered him asylum. he moved in with his desk, his sofa and his dog who is named bruno. there's bruno. he's now running for president of panama again. and he's winning. according to the new york times recent polls show him running in first place. this convicted former president now trying to rally his countryman saying you have to be very cowardly to discredit a president candidate who's first in the polls. if i can win votes who cares

that i'm a convicted felon, spring me out of here. that is happening right now in panama. the convict now a fugitive. he has taken his dog and moved into the foreign embassy of a country that has granted him asylum and he may win the election from there. so we're not alone. in a weird way. that's panama. also pakistan there they have a former prime minister who was ousted from being prime minister in 2022. he's now in prison. campaigning from prison. his party won this weekend's elections in pakistan. hiss party did not know how the logistics. so they had ai generate a fake speech in what sounded like his voice. but it wasn't really his voice because he's in prison so he

couldn't give the speech. all of the headlines about this term of events are predicting the same thing. all of the headlines using the same word, chaos, chaos, chaos, chaos. nobody wants to be a country where the election news and prison news are kind of the same thing. nobody wants to be that. that said if you elect someone from president who has been committing crimes and that person as president does some crimes to stay in office. then honestly you have no choice. congratulations you have joined the community of nations where sometimes people run for president from prison and they sometimes win. and there's, no easy way out of that. in brazil, the so called tropical trump right wing former president sabanaro he was just named officially as a target in a federal criminal

investigation in brazil as to whether he plotted a military coo to try to stay in power. you may remember that balsanaro claimed the election was rigged and stolen. he made those claims everyone before people started voting in that election. so when he lost his supporters were of course primed to protest and to disbelieve the result. why does that sound familiar. then on january 6th i mean eighth after the election, his supporters gathered for a protest at the capital which then turned into a riot to try to oust the person who beat balsanaro. now he will be tried for trying

to overturn the election and trying to stay in power. now it looks like they're going to charge him. within the past few days, four of his aids were arrested. he was also made to hand over his passport so he cannot leave the country so he will not be prosecuted. who knows, maybe he'll try to get asylum some where. maybe he'll try to sneak into south florida again. if you see him in south florida, which is where he went after losing his election. if you see him walking his dog toward the embassy of nicaragua, call somebody, it's new. it is better to not be a country where presidents and prime ministers go to prison. we have that for, we had the sort of the luxury of not being that for a very long time, right. the closest we got was nixon

right. everybody was furious when ford gave nixon a pardon before being invited. ford gave him that pardon. maybe if ford hadn 't pardoned nixon we would have learned our lesson then. we would have learned the consequences of putting a criminal in the white house are terrible for the country. terrible for the criminal himself right, but way worse for the country that has then and forever thereafter to jam up its politics. politics and prison news having from that point going together. here we are, we have lost the luxury we used to have. we're not alone in the world with that score anymore. we're going to be talking about former president trump's filing that he just made in the supreme court claiming to be immune for prosecution for any

crimes he may have committed while serving for president. we're talking about the prosecutor who brought him to court for rico charges. to a mistress a trial we might get a start date for by the ends of this week. we'll be talking about the civil judgment against him which may total hundreds of millions of dollars. and, and, and, and that is leaving some of them out. here like so many countries around the world covering politics now has to include a lot of the prison side of the things too. and the inherent drama of all that courtroom confrontation. does make covering politics feel different? i mean sometimes i think it makes it hard to remember that we're not just running a

steeple chase of unprecedented legal challenges and hurdles and hazards that we've never had to deal with before as a country. yes. we are now right now in our generation, in our lifetime in this year we're trying to avoid becoming a fundamentally different kind of country. right. by having to do all this. yes we are caught up in this incredible and frustrating drama of trying to use democratic means to save our democracy from people who are not using democratic means because they want to ends democracy and use power by force. we are trying to defeat those forces as a country while holding on to our y while democracy itself. we're also

picking a candidate. we're also picking a president with all of the high stakes that that means. have you ever heard of the chippendale building? from the ground it looks like a normal new york office building but then up top it's weird looking. the top of the building kind of looks like it's visiting from another object. right. like, the top looks like maybe a piece of furniture. that's where the nickname came from. some kind of weird uninvited party happening upstairs. the chippendale building in new york. if you want to see the critics point of view that this really is just a building with a whole

another idea for a separate building plopped on top of it. if you want to see the idea of people who don't like it. that it has a hat on a horse element to it. i think you can see the critics perspective really clearly as you see it next to another building where he seems to have been going after the same idea. you can see the idea carry through from one to the other. in both cases what you have is a normal building, maybe kind of an attractive building with another building plopped on top of it or a joke. the one on the left is the chippendale building, and at the university of houston's

architecture. architect, phillip johnson. lots of people who love phillip johnson as an architect. to each his case. it remains a skeleton in the closet. this guy phillip johnson probably the most famous and well known and prolific american modernist architect was also a raging fascist. phillip johnson wrote admiring reviews of mind comf. phillip johnson went to germany in 1932 to attend a giant hitler youth rally. phillip johnson tried to start

his own fascist political party in the united states which he wanted it to be an armed fascist. phillip johnson tried to start a military group modeled on hitler's brown shirts. he called them the gray shirts and met in johnson's basement. he paid living expenses so they could continue their work as fascist intellectuals and writers. he wrote essays about how the white race was dying and needed to be rescued. phillip johnson very famous american architect was a world class american fascist.

and in 1939 when german troops invaded poland. he was invited by the german government to poland. reporters were covering the invasion and the aftermath. it was unusual that phillip johnson was invited to be there too because he wasn't a journalist. he was an american pronazi fascist activist and would be architect soon. but he was nevertheless invited along by the germans to cover their magnificent invasion. he filed articles about it by father charles coglin. and what phillip johnson wrote about it is that poland had asked for it. that poland had given hitler no

choice. really poland made hitler to it. they had cooperated with hitler up to a point and then they had to stop cooperating. johnson says it kind of looks like hitler should have invaded poland. because poland was really full of juice. phillip johnson was not a very reliable observer of what was going on but he was a great stenographer of exactly what hitler and the nazis themselves wanted to do. he did a good job with their cover story. in no word, in no contemporary

article after that, in no world did poland start world war ii. in no world did poland make hitler attack them. like the guy that made this monstrosity. not in 85 years has anyone tried to sell that kind of horse hockey horse tail of who started world war ii to the american people. until now. now it's back. thursday night a new interview with russian president putin with a fox news host was posted online. if you heard anything about it i'm going to guess that you probably read news articles about it that described the interview as boring. you might have read that it started with putin giving a long inexplicable lecture that went on and on and on and didn't seem to have a point and

lost most of the american audience. true all true. except for a part of the history lecture where putin got to 1939. at which point he then claimed in this interview that it was poland who started world war ii. poland did it because even if poland was cooperating with hitler but then they stopped cooperating with hitler when hitler needed them to cooperate most and then they made hitler attack them. we haven't had that sold to the american public. that happened in 1939. it hasn't happened since until now. and the reason putin is trying

to sell us this bizarre line now, is more worrying than it is interesting. it might be boring but it is worrying. here's russian the journalist in the new yorker in ha piece that i highly recommend that you take a look at in the new yorker. i can't get one passage out of my mind. putin said poland cooperated with germany but then it refused to comply with hitler's demands. poland forced them to start world war ii by attacking poland. poland forced hitler to invade them. the idea, the idea that the victim of the attack serves as its instigator by forcing the

hand of the aggressor is putin's explanation. this is the first time putin described hitler's aggression in these same terms. the way putin described the beginning of the second word war suggests that in his mind he might see himself as hitler but perhaps one that can make end roads into the united states and create an alliance with its presumed future president. it continues that putin took the time to blame poland for inciting hitler's aggression. putin mentioned poland more than 30 times in this conversation with mr. carlson. if i were poland i would be scared, end quote. putin is selling a new line.

to americans. he's saying that poland is the real aggressor that we should blame for world war ii. and he's starting to use the same language. starting to cite the same reasons he did to invade ukraine as germany invaded poland. we're a nato country and if putin decides that he doesn't just want to invade ukraine, which he's done twice now since 2014 and he just doesn't want to invade georgia and maldova as well. if he decides, as he's been threatening, that he is going to take line from poland. that will be putin and russia attacking nato which would oblige the other 30 nato

countries to attack russia. or maybe not. less than 24 hours after that interview posted online, former president donald trump at rally said if he's president again, basically he would not honor that commitment. he appears to have made a conversation with what he calls a large leader of a nato country where he told the leader if that person would be attacked by russia, i would not protect you. he said in fact, i would encourage you, meaning russia, to do whatever you want. the statement is that he trump might invite president putin of russia to pick off a nato nation as a warning of a lesson to the 30 or so others in nato about heeding mr. trump's demands. i have to stress here, that trump really did use the word encourage. he did not say that the united states would sit idly by in

case russia invaded a nato ally. he said he would encourage russia to go after one of our allies. he would encourage them. in other words he would tell russia to take out one of our allies with the assurance we do nothing to help. this is happening within 48 hours of putin telling a hand picked interviewer which countries he thinks really have had it coming. and he's got one of them in nato at the top of his list. don't forget president biden is three years older than that guy so there's equally enormous risks to pick either of these candidates to be president of the united states. one is old, the other is also old, and he's also being indicted and threatening nato countries. lots of other countries, i'm sad to say it but lots of other

count countries have to deal with former presidents and people in office facing charges. nobody in this country wishes that we do. take comfort in the fact that lots of other countries have had to deal with one way or another. lots of other countries have had to face charges. pick one, go on do it. on that line, that was tr

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nato has been a success story for the last 75 years but don't take the side of a tug that kills his opponents. do not take the side of someone who has invaded a country and thousands have been killed because of putin. >> including the drama that our legal stuff and political stuff is intermingled from here on out. the leading republican presidential candidate and former president donald trump this weekend promised if he is elected president again the united states will no longer

pledge to defend american nato allies if any of them are attacked by russia. in fact, he said he would quote encourage russia. that's the word he used. encourage russia to do whatever the hell they wanted. joining us now is former ambassador to hall. he has a look at this. ambassador hall, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> is there anything in the interpretation of what it means. the implications. if you feel any of it is being misconstrued or do you feel this is getting the right response. >> i'm shocked by either of the

responses. you said it several times, it is just completely shocking what he said. and the fact that we're not all thank you by the way for devoting so much time on your program tonight on it and thank you for making the connections to the 1930s because this is a 1930s fight and when i was in lithuania. that's the metaphor they're using. we've become so used to mr. trump saying those things and then it's that's just trump being trump. the fact he said russia, putin should invade one of our allies and he would encourage it is just outrageous, extraordinary. so that's the reaction that i think is strange to me. that there's not more people saying that. especially national security officials, former officials in the republican party.

because i know that they agree with me and i'm shocked that they are so silent tonight. >> in lithuania, lathia, estonia, those countries, is there a sense that this is more than just, uncoo. that this is something there's a real threat here that putin is actually sort of testing whether or not he can cross yet another border. that he can start military action against yet another country? >> without question. publicly leaders from those count trips have said it. behind closed doors they say it, see it with more emotion on their voice. here's the scenario they worry about. russia is caught fighting a war in ukraine. thank goodness they haven't reached greater objectives we need to help the ukrainians so they don't. they worry what happens two

years from now, three years from now, four years from now. when russia has greater capability and we because mr. trump comes to power are no longer interested in defending our nato allies and they talk very openly about will we have to do if the united states is not there to help us. they talk very openly about how the soviet union was weak in 1941 when hitler invaded and came back roaring. they talked about why the united states would recognize the nato article to defend them and if they don't, which coalition of countries have to do it on their own. i hope they're wrong and i hope they under score so far russia and the soviet union has never attacked a nato count treufplt -- country. that's the bad news. the fact they're having these

conversations is deeply troubling, exacerbated by what mr. trump said a few days ago. >> some of the response has been sort of on the republican side. i'm thinking principally here about senator marco rubio and other republicans that have said, we passed a law that the senate has to give permission if the president wants to get us out of nato in the future. you said this is trump just being trump. this isn't a real risk. i feel like that may be true on paper. but the risk is that the green light is given once an american commitment is questioned on american soil by would be american leader. that legally it doesn't necessarily matter that the green light has been given. that the signal has been given. whatever happens, is that a

fair assessment. >> that's exact little right rachel. to say the law is there. we're not going to withdraw from nato. but if a nato country is attacked especially if it's an ambiguous attack. not an attack but tanks rolling in and trump says, nato crumbles . >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you for joining us. shingles could also lead to serious complications that can last for years. if you're over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside you. and as you age, your risk of developing shingles increases. don't wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. i'm starting to think this was a bad idea.

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this week is going to be kind of nuts. i think we can all agree. former president donald trump started the week today at a courthouse in florida. federal courthouse. it's for a hearing in the case against him related to his allegedly hiding documents at his florida golf club and refusing to turn them over when he was asked for them. that's how his week started. the week could end by a judge ordering him to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. that's the punishment a new york judge is asking in a fraud case against trump and the trump organization. the judge in that fraud case is expected to issue his verdict on friday of this week. again that is just new york times reporting. we have not confirmed that.

but we're watching that as well. the judge could rule whenever he feels like it. friday is also the day that trump can file to throw out cases against january 6th. also next thursday, fanny williams is going to appear before a judge. trump and his 14 codefendants argue that she should be disqualified because she and one of the top prosecutors she hired for the case are involved

in a personal romantic relationship. fanny willis argues that nothing about that relationship is disqualifying. she argues that trump and his team are using a lot of public relations nonsense about this issue that has no legal consequence. that said, there was a hearing today on these allegations and the judge in this case in georgia said these allegations against district attorney willis could lead to willis being dismissed from the case. and says he wants to hear evidence on these allegations on thursday of this week. so it all makes for a very, very busy week in terms of the legal part of our political news now. but it also puts district attorney fanny willis in quite a spot. whatever you think about this relationship or whether she did

anything wrong. the only person's opinion that matters is the judge. he did make clear, he said he thinks she might be disqualified from this case because of these allegations. if fanny willis is disqualified fairly or unfairly. her whole office, the whole district attorney's office is disqualified from working on that case. which could mean that whole case would go away. and that is why professor clark cunningham the best thing fanny willis could do to protect her case would be for her to take a leave of absence. for her to take a personal leave of office from the district attorney office. that would end these proceedings against her effectively and it would leave her office in charge of the case and the case could go

forward. we connected the professor on these new developments he told us quote, this action, meaning personal leave by district attorney willis should be looked at strategically as the best option she has to make this enormously distracting controversy go away and to put the case back on track. still in the control of the fulton county d.a's office. if judge mcafee charges her, perhaps that whole case goes away. that should make it all the more of a circus, there will also i believe be cameras in that court proceeding. don't quote me on that. but of course trump would like to be there regardless. all of that, all of that legal

drama that makes up donald trump's week. doesn't even make up the biggest legal development as of today. trump is asking the court to step in on the immunity case in a way that not many predicted. we have more on that case after this.

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federal appeals court in washington, d.c. released an unanimous opinion last week saying donald trump is not immune of prosecution for his attempt to stay in power after he lost the election. they also tried to box him in to what he could do next. they tried to box him into appealing straight to the u.s. supreme court. they said the way they ruled they said if trump tried to come back to that same appeals court, if he tried to make that same court take another turn with that same case, trump would risk the whole process speeding up which is the last thing he wants. they said if he came back to the appeals court instead of just going straight to the supremes. his trial would be unfrozen. it would get put back on the calendar. all systems go. he might end up in court sooner than he wants to. today donald trump did go to the supreme court but he asked them to overrule that part of the appeals court ruling where they were trying to speed up

the process. he's asking the supreme court to allow him additional review. he wanting to be able to go to all 11 judges instead of just the three judge panel that gave him the ruling thus far and he wants to be able to do that before he appeals to the supreme court without risking his trial starting up as punishment. he argued in his filing with the court tonight that this court should stay. this unprecedented and unacceptable departure from ordinary appellate procedures and allow the case to be decided in the ordinary court of justice. this filing tonight from trump and his lawyers seems to be their way of trying kind of a bank shot. they're insisting that he should get yet more review in the appeals court of dc before he inevitably appeals to the american supreme court. he's also planning for more delay. also playing for more

procedure. also playing for more time. how strong is this play? how strong is his case for this. and if the supreme court does grant him what he's asking what would that mean for the timing of his big federal trial for trying to stay in office after he was voted out. joining us now is chuck rosenburg. thank you for being here. >> my pleasure rachel. >> did i explain the basics of that correctly. that he's e e if effectively trying to take away that rushing tactic. you have to end this appeals process at some point and get to trial. >> yes, good description. think of it this way. three step stepladder. step one would be the trial court. a trial would be conducted and a trial rendered. prosecutors want to be there and mr. trump does not.

step two would be the appellate court. and what he would like to do now is either be on wrong number three, step three, the supreme court or back in the appellate court. by all means rachel to avoid step one the trial court. >> what do you make of the strength of his argument and the strength of this filing over all in this approach? >> well there are different arguments. the underlying argument he has absolute immunity i think is a deep argument. it's been heard twice now. one at the district court level. one at the appellate court level. all four have agreed there's no merit to it whatsoever. procedurally whatsoever, that's a bank shot. he wants to have a trial court and hear his appeal yet again. if he loses there, not to go back down to the trial court but to go up to the supreme court. what do i make of it?

i don't think it's very compelling. i think everyone understands what you outlined that in the court of justice, in the trump hopes, as slow as possible. >> it's hard to predict any court's decision. particularly the supreme court. do you think there's anything we saw at work in the consideration of his valid eligibility case. the oral arguments we saw on thursday. is there anything we can extrapolate that may help us predict what we're going to get out of this? >> i think so. i hope so. the case you mentioned on the 14th amendment was put on an expedited schedule. briefing occurred quickly. argument occurred quickly. i imagine we will have a quick decision. if the supreme court adheres

to that philosophy. that could adhere to this too. i'm some what bullish that he could be tried at round one of the ladder in trial court. district court before the election. but that turns on a lot of ifs. >> chuck rosenberg, former fbi official and excellent explainer of hard things. chuck as always, thank you for being with us. it's always a pleasure to have you here. >> my pleasure, rachel. >> stay with us, we'll be right back. ok, well most of s yours. mmmm...

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you can get all hung up in a prickly perch and your gang will fly off, you will get on a lurch. the chances will be then that you're in a slump. when you're in a slump, you're not in for much fun. unslumping yourself is not easily done. >> you know it's going to be a long night when dudes start reading dr. seuss on the floor. unslumping himself. at this hour the united states senate has just managed to advance a bill from ukraine and israel after spending a whole day on deliberation. by deliberation i mean grand standing and trying to run out the clock. that's the only way really to

describe jd vance annoying the ghost of theodore geysel and josh holly talking about the super bowl on the senate floor all evening. the bill they nevertheless passed this hour would send over $60 billion to ukraine. it would send over $14 billion to israel. once the senate gives final approval to this thing. it will go the house. e effectively saying he doesn't want it to go any where in the house. the house will have to continue to in part, quote, the house will have to continue to work its own will on these important matters. it's not at all clear that mike johnson and house republicans have anything approaching a unified will or that republican leadership is in any position what that will might be. there is even some talk among house republicans of circumventing mike johnson entirely on this matter, and doing it without him. but honest