and do you see any off ramp here from that war in ukraine? >> look at how serenely he sits there for two hours and re-writes history. i mean, i'm glad tucker did the interview. i'm glad he didn't interject and let putin just go on and on and on because i think it should be a unifying thing for the left and the right to sit here and listen to this butcher wax eloquently about what happened that created ukraine, which is complete bull shit. and i think that if anything that interview should have strengthened the resolve of both sides of the aisle to pass the bill and support ukraine. >> there you are, plain spoken and straight forward. as you said, can americans come together when they see what you call a butcher putin as we deal with this. this is a time when there's a lot of tensions. ambassador sondland, i appreciate you coming on "the beat." i hope you come back.

>> i will. thanks, ari. >> appreciate it. that does it for us. "morning joe" starts now. ♪♪ good evening, everyone welcome to "the reid out." special counsel jack smith filed his brief with the supreme court opposing donald trump's quest for total immunity. republicans are licking their wounds after yet another election defeat last night. and maryland senator chris van hollande joins me after his powerful floor speech accusing israel of a textbook war crime in gaza. but we begin tonight with peak america. today, in downtown kansas city, missouri, a valentine's day mass shooting erupted as the city was celebrating its third super bowl title in five seasons. a tragic but not so surprising end to what should have been a dynasty cementing moment for kansas city football. instead, today is seared in american memory for a very different and gruesome reason.

police say shots were fired as soon as the rally concluded this afternoon. the shooting occurred west of union station near the end of the rally that followed the parade. 22 people were injured, including some children. three people are detained, at least one person is dead. super bowl sunday wasn't too long ago. you can count the days on one hand. an overtime thriller where quarterback patrick mahomes led another comeback on the nfl's biggest stage in america's showcase capital. we all watched it. some of us for usher. some of y'all for taylor swift because super bowl sunday is about more than just football. it's about coming together. it's about repping your team, your city, your state. and that was what today was supposed to be about. have you ever been in a town that just won the super bowl? it is intense. the entire population is out. families, little kids, seniors. this was the massive crowd today in downtown kansas city. reportedly up to 1 million people out to celebrate, to be a

part of something special. but sadly, being out in public is not so safe for many americans. because in america, football isn't king. guns are king. if the presence of lots of guns in lots of hands made you safer, missouri would be the safest place on earth. missouri has apollingly weak gun laws and one of the country's highest gun death rates. since 2017 the state has aloud people to carry concealed, loaded firearms in public without a background check or permit. it's gun law strength rank is 48 out of 50, according to giffords. score card grade is f. they do not enforce universal background checks, gun owner licensing or extreme risk protection orders. no domestic violence gun laws, no large capacity magazine bans

or. you shall be sold a gun no matter what. and you can openly carry or conceal carry that firearm or a bunch of them without obtaining a permit. missouri also has a stand your ground law, in case you decide to use your gun to kill someone. you're good in most cases. let's take a hard look at this terrifying tableau of america where thousands of human beings wearing chiefs jerseys, united as fans, as a city, as americans, only to hear multiple shots coming from the crowd. we have seen this scene so many times. the panic and the fear, the children lost in the chaos looking for their parents. the people jumping barricades, running, dispersing, hiding. today also marks the six-year anniversary of the mass shooting at marjory stoneman douglas high school that left 17 people, mostly children, dead. six years ago to the day and so

little has changed. in fact, it's only gotten worse. there are now even americans who have experienced more than one mass shooting. like these parade attendees who experienced gun violence today. as well as at a school years ago. >> it was very skrar. this is our second situation. i don't know a while back -- >> highland elementary. >> eight years ago we were at work at highland's elementary, where there was an active shooter across the street. and we had to race all the kids to the gym and, you know, wait for their parents to come and get them. so being with my daughter, making sure she's safe, is my number one priority. and coming down here to celebrate and then to end on a sad note, it's devastating. >> joining me now is manuel, jacksonville, missouri. he was at the parade with his

young daughter camilla who also joins us. msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill and britney cunningham, former member of president obama's 21st century policing task force and the host of the undistracted podcast. thank you so much for being here. i do want to start with you, representative, barka. talk about what happened today and your daughter's adorable, by the way. >> thank you. we're glad we're here today. it was celebratory, social hour. it was confetti and smiles and sunshine. and then unfortunately in the flash of a second it was screams and terror as we ran into a restaurant right off the inner part of union station to hide in the bathroom, not knowing what or if we were going to leave it. thankfully camilla was pretty brave about the whole thing. but, you know, we're glad we're here today. >> you know what's tragic,

especially seeing your baby there, is that you know kids her age, as well as kids my kid's age. my kids are in their 20s. they're growing up with this as a part of their way of life. run, hide, shoot is a part of what they learn in school. it's just standard education for a third grader, a fourth grader, a preschooler and you can't go to a parade. you're in the legislative business. you're in the government business. is there any desire among your fellow legislatures to make children live a different kind of life than this one? >> absolutely. and i think it's something that i'm taking at heart immediately. as soon as we were clear and safe, i texted our general counsel and told them, i need that gun legislation immediately for monday's meeting. i don't care what stands in our way. as i was leaving with my colleagues a the state legislature, at the city council, we all agreed it's time for us to act. as democrats we must act in a state that is a petri dish for terrible gun laws. we're going to take a stand

here. the time for prayers is certainly there because i do know several of the victims. but we're going to act. they're not going to be lost in vain. >> i guess the most important question, is will the people of your state act? because they are re-electing republicans who refuse to do anything about gun violence, who make it easier and easier for even the worst people to get their hands on firearms, as many as they want with no permit. missouri ranks, as i mentioned, near the bottom in gun safety. most of the deaths from firearms in your state are suicides. >> yeah. >> do you see any movement among the voters of your state to elect different kinds of elected officials? >> yeah. i think nearly a million voters there today, i hope. the reality is the governor was present. many republican state reps were there. if they're not seeing this as an opportunity to change their ways, hopefully we're willing to kick them out. i will gladly lead that effort as i know senator mccaskill has

done in the past. >> jackson county legislature, manuel barka iv. thank you for being here. i'm so glad you and your baby are safe. >> thank you. joining me now is claire mccaskill as well as britney cunningham. i'll start with you, claire. you were a statewide legislature in the state of missouri. i know it's supposed to be missouri. i'll use my midwest accent and say missouri. why won't legislatures in the state of missouri change it? >> well, you have to understand that missouri is dominated by maga. missouri is dominated by republican party that sees absolutely no problem with telling a 12-year-old girl that she must give birth to her stepfather's baby after he shaz been victimized by incest for a year. but tells her 12-year-old

brother, yeah, you can carry an ar-15 openly, publicly anywhere you want in missouri and the police can't even stop you or take it away from you. that's the state we're living in. that's how extreme our laws are. and they are in a race to make it even more extreme every single day. i mean, joy, think about this for a minute. especially in light of children's mercy calling for parents to please contact them because maybe one of the many children they're treating for gunshot wounds at children's mercy, which is just a few blocks from union station, that maybe their children are there and their parents haven't been able to find them. just keep in mind that there is a bill put on the floor in the house of representatives in missouri that said, you know, we're going to ban children from openly carrying weapons in public places without adult supervision.

right? now, what do you think? probably 90% of america supports that. 95% of america supports that. guess what happened? the republicans in missouri voted it down. they wanted to make sure that children could openly carry any weapon they wanted, no permit, no training, without adult supervision in public places. so, no wonder the governor is running in fear today at this rally with his security detail while children are getting shot up right around the corner. >> yeah, britney, you're also from missouri. and it is a strange thing when you have people who actually do want to legislate. they've been real active in the state of missouri. they have been legislating a potential death penalty for women who get an abortion. they have been legislating nixing any sort of exceptions for people who are victims of rape and incest. they also have to carry the child of their rapist. you had a legislature there say if you don't stop abortion, a

1-year-old could get an abortion, which is physically and scientifically an impossibility, but he still said it. saying things like that. these people don't know apparently anatomy or science they like to legislate. they just want to legislate women, not guns. your thoughts. >> that's exactly the point. missouri does not trust pregnant people to make decisions about their own bodies. but they most certainly trust people to come in and privately sell a firearm and not have to perform any background checks as long as it's done at a gun show. by the way, joy, the kansas city gun show is actually coming up next week. it starts on february 17th. and i wonder if the host of that gun show, the state of missouri, will have any consciousness toward what that symbolizes? because they haven't closed the gun show loopholes. they don't require a permit to carry, a permit to purchase. they absolutely don't restrict assault weapon. they don't restrict any domestic violence gun violence. and if a republican is going to argue with me and say this is

not about guns. it's really about mental health. well, guess what, missouri allows the restoration of gun rights to people who have been found to be mentally incompetent by the courts. so we can all stop that fallacy right now. the truth of the matter is missouri has not ever cared about life. if they did, then we would see these guns off the street. there were 800 uniformed law enforcement officers today at the rally. and what that tells me is that even with all that security, we're not able to actually prevent these things because the guns are still getting into people's hands. you want to value life? stop that. >> indeed. you know, just to give you sort of a sense of this, the gun law strength again in missouri is 48 out of 50, gun death rate 6 out of 50. gun deaths per 100,000, 24.4, the percent difference national average 70%. and since 2017 complete open carry without a license.

i was just in st. louis, claire. and what i saw was a lot of need, need for jobs. a lot of deindustrialization. a lot of factories that are closed. a lot of economic want. missouri really probably could use an influx of people who want to come there based on, i don't know, them winning kansas city winning the super bowl and it sort of causing a rebirth of interest in cities like kansas city. who would feel safe going to a parade in a state where anyone around you with no permit and who might have mental issues is carrying and packing, why would anyone go to any public event there? >> well, frankly joy, i think it's getting to the point all across america. and we are really in a place where our country has spent so much time worshipping at the altar of guns that we've lost touch and how out of touch our

country is with the rest of the world. they all think we're crazy to have this many guns floating around without the proper gun safety laws in place, without the proper safeguards in place to make sure that guns are only being used in ways that make sense and safe for everyone. and you know, listen, the economic situation in st. louis is complicated. we have a lot of good things going on. kansas city frankly has been a real growth story over the last decade. there are many parts of my state i'm very proud of. and those are two parts of my state that i can certainly say with confidence that the majority of the people there want these laws to change. the problem is the majority of the republicans that are in leadership positions aren't faced with urban violence. they're not faced with the fact that these police officers -- think about these police officers. they're used to running towards danger. i mean, i'll never forget when there was a photograph of a couple of young, black teenagers walking down the street in st.

louis with ar-15s. and one of these republican legislatures from the rural areas actually had the nerve to say, look what's going on in st. louis. i'm going, hello. that's because you voted it in, you idiot. you're the one who made that legal. what are police supposed to do? say would you mind not doing this? you know. they have made this legal. and the split between rural and urban in missouri is making it very difficult for the people in kansas city and st. louis and a few other places in the state that want sanity. they don't want the extremes. they don't want the worst abortion restrictions in the country and most lax gun laws in the country. but that's what we got until people wake up and start voting these folks out. >> you mentioned the police. britney, i want to play for you the police chief in kansas city and what she said repeatedly during her press conference today. >> we also know that officers

ran towards danger. officers were there to keep everyone safe. we had over 800 law enforcement officers, kansas city and other agencies at the location to keep everyone safe. because of bad actors, which were very few, this tragedy occurred. even in the presence of uniformed law enforcement officers who, again, ran towards them and took them into custody. >> you know, it struck me as i heard her say that, about four or five times, that's what police are supposed to do, right? we've reached a point where the brag doseo is that police did what they are being paid to do as opposed to to what happened in uvalde, texas, where they refused to act. we are on this anniversary of marnlry stoneman douglas where the police officer did not appear to act with great valor. we reached a point that's what the press concerns is. bragging that the police did

what they're being paid to do. that's what they're paid to do. that's not an answer to stopping gun violence. but i'm going -- you were on the 21st century policing committee. i wasn't. so i'll let you comment. >> no, it's not an answer. here is what we need to remember. this time the police were doing their job. and their job for the most part is to respond to violence after it has already occurred. so, when folks across this country, especially those in black movement spaces have been emphasizing over and other again that we need to have a broad conversation about what true public safety looks like, then that's what we need to be paying attention to. because true public safety means there aren't -- there aren't wanting gun laws across the state of missouri and the ability for anybody to access those weapons. that's not an urban problem. that's not a rural problem. that's not a county problem. that's an everybody problem. and i think it's going to be really easy for legislatures in missouri and particular to call this an urban problem because legislatures all across the country have been blaming black

people in some kind of assumption that we are predisposed to violence for what they have coded as urban violence. but guess what, these are laws that you passed and these are laws that you want to protect in order to be able to protect yourself just as the mccloskeys did in st. louis when movement organizers and protesters were on their street. so they're trying to make sure they can stand their ground while the rest of us suffer. >> i will note that -- people should really travel a lot, if you can, if you can afford to get out of this country. i promise you if you're in europe, ghana, you will never worry for one second about being shot in public. that's one thing you don't worry about when you leave this country to travel. you just don't worry about it. you should ask yourself why that is. only here do you worry if you go to the mall, parade, go to any public event you worry about getting shot, even in church. nowhere else, just america. we should ask yourselves why that is. claire, britney, thank you.

still ahead on "the reidout," special counsel jack smith files his response to absolute immunity. "the reidout" continues after this. mmunity. "the reidout" continues after isth

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and end excessive paperwork to move officers back to the streets. let's keep san francisco moving in the right direction. yes on prop e. special counsel jack smith wasted no time responding to the supreme court over donald trump's request for a stay in his on going efforts to delay his federal election interference case with the bogus claim of presidential immunity. it comes after only one day -- it comes one day after receiving the order from the court and six days ahead of the deadline. out of the gate, smith sets the tone writing, the charged crime strike at the heart of our democracy and goes on to describe the irreparable harm that would be cause to that very democracy if trump's claims of absolute immunity from criminal prosecution were upheld or even further delayed.

smith writes, quote, that position finds no support in constitutional text, separation of powers, principles, history or logic. and if that radical claim were accepted, it would up end understanding about presidential accountability that have prevailed throughout history while undermining democracy and the rule of law. particularly where, as here, a former president is alleged to have committed crimes to remain in office, despite losing an election. thereby seeks to subvert constitutional procedures for transferring power and to disenfranchise millions of voters. joining me now is msnbc legal correspondent lisa ruben. lisa, you have been doggedly going through this filing. i have hit some of the highlights. give us more of what you've read thus far. >> you know, joy, one of the things that strikes me in reading this is the way in which jack smith and his team so rapidly but also effectively subverted and turned on their heads some of the arguments that

president -- former president trump and his lawyers were making. one of the things that echos throughout the briefs that former president trump has submitted is a president is special. he should be treated specially and differently. and jack smith sort of doesn't disagree with that. he just takes a different tack at it. yes, presidents are special. we indell them with all sorts of constitutional powers, including the power to take care that his powers are faithfully executed and to respect and venerate the constitution, more than anyone else. and what you are alleged to have done here, mr. former president, is of -- this is the quote, unparalleled gravity that necessitates trying this case as quickly as possible, not the delay that you are begging for. another thing that i think he says that is really interesting, it's really what he doesn't say, former president trump's brief to the supreme court wassy fuse with references to his

candidacy. talked how he was the republican front-runner and indeed the leading candidate to be president of the united states. he talked about the fact that he had an interest in a stay because one of the groups that would be irreparably harmed from a trial would be his voters, his supporters who would be deprived of their first amendment rights to associate with him and hear his political messages. and again, jack smith and his team turned that on their head. they say the public's interest in a speedy trial here is greater than any interest that trump could have in delaying it, particularly given that what he is accused of doing here is subverting the democratic will of tens of millions of voters. in other words, you claim to stand for the interests of a certain segment of voters. but the accusations at the heart of this case are about your willingness to disenfranchise the tens of millions of people who never voted for you in the first instance. >> so, we're all getting a legal

education thanks to donald trump getting indicted over and over and over again. one of the terms that you legal eagles throw around is grant cert. standing for sers yoir. what the supreme court can and cannot do. what is that? and what can the supreme court do next? >> trump's petition that jack smith replied to is formally a motion to stay all proceedings while he works on and then submits what you referred to as a petition for sergs yar. that's a fancy way of asking the supreme court to review a case and unlike federal appeals courts that don't have a choice, they will take an appeal where the law provides for an appeal as of right. the supreme court has discretion over which cases they take. one of the things that jack smith was sort of boxed in by was the fact that in december, he too asked this court to review the case as soon as possible. in fact, he tried to leapfrog the federal appeals court which has jurisdiction here, the d.c.

circuit. he couldn't say the case wasn't worthy of review. what he instead said is this case is not deserving of a stay. but if you determine that there are enough votes to grant cert, treat trump's motion for a stay as if it were a cert petition so that we can expedite briefing and get on with this and you can hold oral argument in this case, consistent with how you've behaved in other expedited proceedings by march. >> got it. and so, we're looking at hopefully the supreme court hearing it by march. now could they just say, no? could they just not hear it? and if they decided not to hear it, then what? >> first of all, joy, they can decide as soon as they want to or even when they get a reply from donald trump on this motion for a stay that they're not going to grant a stay and effectively that's the whole game. because if they're not granting a stay, this goes back to tonya chutkan even if ultimately they are going to consider whether to

review the case. however, they can take as much time as they want. that is a nightmarish scenario that some of our journalistic colleagues have floated. they could, for example, consider that they don't have time to decide this case by the end of the supreme court term and hold it over until october. i think the public pressure on them to act decisively is too strong and they will do something. the next few days, couple of weeks to let us know where their heads are at. >> yeah. i think it would be important for the american people to know whether the president is allowed to use s.e.a.l. team 6 to kill a man, his political opponents. i hear that. >> i hear that. but they can deny a stay and by denying a stay, leaving the d.c. circuit's opinion in force that effectively answers that same question, right? it was that circuit that said to trump, are you saying that s.e.a.l. team 6 could be used to kill your political opponent? and they said, no. >> yeah, yeah. well, that would be a good answer. i think a good answer. lisa ruben, thank you for

explaining all that. we really appreciate you. still ahead a democratic victory in yesterday's special election in new york is the latest sign that american voters are fed up with the republican party's refusal to focus on stuff that actually matters, like gun violence. we'll be right back. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had.

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the economy is simply not working for try at risk free for 100 days. millions of hard working families. they're working harder than ever and they still can't make enough to get by to afford food and medicine to even keep a roof over their heads. we need to build more housing that's truly affordable. we need to address this terrible epidemic of homelessness. we need to invest in good paying jobs,

union jobs and investments in our future. this, this is why i'm running for the us senate. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. growing up, my parents wanted me to become a doctor or an engineer. those are good careers! but i chose a different path. first, as mayor and then in the legislature. i enshrined abortion rights in our california constitution. in the face of trump, i strengthened hate crime laws and lowered the costs for the middle class. now i'm running to bring the fight to congress. you were always stubborn. and on that note, i'm evan low, and i approve this message. ♪♪ today's violence in kansas city reminds us that if you want things to change, you have to vote for the people who will

change them. the way the current republican party functions, don't hold your breath. they refuse to do their jobs. they refuse to work with democrats to pass sensible gun reform. they refuse to work with democrats to pass really any type of immigration reform which they have been screaming about. heck, they can't fund the government. last night new yorkers from nassau county in queens elected democrat tom suozzi to replace expelled republican george santos. partially because of that partisan bickering over immigration. that loss and another special election loss in a pennsylvania state house election can now be added to a long list of losses for republicans, ever since they followed donald trump's dissent into fascism, when he says jump, they say, how high, sir? he told them to help try change the election. yes, sir. he told them to kill a border deal, he said, yes, sir. he tells them to help putin by not helping ukraine. they said yes, sir. when it comes to guns, they did nothing.

appoint trump proclaimed proudly last week to a bunch of nra people. >> during my four years, nothing happened and there was great pressure on me having to do with guns. we did nothing. we didn't yield. and once you yield a little bit, that's just the beginning. that's the avalanche begins. >> mind you it's been six years to the day that that guy was sitting in the oval office when something happened. 17 children were murdered and 17 wounded by their classmate at marjory stoneman douglas high school in florida. the deadliest mass shooting at a high school in u.s. history. and that was just one of more than 20 mass shootings that occurred while that guy was in office. joining me now is michael steele, former rnc chair and co-host of "the weekend" on msnbc and david jolly, msnbc political analyst and former republican congressman. i'll start by asking you, mr. chairman, what is the tipping point when republican voters, forget the cowardly politicians, say enough. we're just not going to keep putting these people in office

who don't care if our fourth graders get killed at a parade, or in school. >> i have to be honest with you, i don't know if there is a tipping point because you would have thought by now that republicans and those affected communities, those directly affected whether in colorado or florida or elsewhere, would rise up and put that kind of political pressure if you will on their members. they haven't. there's been a lot of thoughts and prayers. there's been a lot of conversation, but there hasn't been the political will that results in political pressure to create the change that you talked about at the beginning of this conversation. and so, i don't know that that pressure is there. you have folks now -- and david knows this -- bragging, as we saw the former president do about doing nothing. somehow that's a badge of honor, even in the wake of what

happened in stoneman douglas and what happened today. celebrating the -- you know, the victory of the kansas city chiefs with gunfire and the loss of life. that's how we celebrate now in america. no event is spared. no one is safe. and you're talking about a community where i had someone listen to someone ask the police officer -- the police chief, well there were 800 officers there. why couldn't this be stopped? i was like, dude, first off there's a million people on the grounds. but they're in a state where there's open carry. there are no restrictions. so, what do you expect the police to do in that environment except to run into the danger as we see there. that's what -- that's what the result is. that's the conversation now. did you run into the danger as opposed to what are we doing to stop the danger from occurring in the first place. >> right. i mean, it is a remarkable

thing, david. there is no other country where you worry about this. there just isn't. that's not at war. i mean, you worry about in ukraine. but that's because they're at war with russia. right? we understand that republican politicians don't care about anything other than staying in office. but don't they care about money? because winning that super bowl could have been an economic boon to kansas city. who from another country would want to travel to kansas city or really honestly most american cities because it's not safe to be on the streets. it's not safe to be in a mall. it's not safe to be in a movie theater. it's not safe to be in church because in america you can get shot in all of those places and school. so, i mean, at a certain point, don't these republicans, don't they care about money? don't they want tourism? >> yeah. listen, i don't think we can ever expect republican leaders or elected republicans to change the direction they're going because frankly the money that gets them there is also what keeps them there. the campaign finance money.

but i like the way you framed it in your question to michael. when will we as voters, when will the american people actually have had enough and throw the republicans out? because we know that republicans will never do anything about gun safety legislation or gun violence. democrats would. if democrats had their way, we would be a safer nation when it comes to gun policy. so what will it take for voters? right now every time there's a mass shooting, it's like you have americans of all political stripes go into the church. none of them convert. come back out and they behave as partisan as they always have. and so, what tragedy will be enough? the reality is from where we sit today, we are unique in the western world among gun violence. we have to crush the culture of guns on demand in the united states. it should be as hard to get a gun, a firearm, as it is to get a security clearance in the white house. >> or get an abortion. they make it -- it's harder -- >> exactly my point. we need to ban weapons of war.

and we need policymakers that are willing to do that. look, it's okay to change your mind in politics whether you're elected or whether you're a voter. it's okay to admit you're wrong. it's okay to say maybe the second amendment is wrong. maybe we need to broaden our horizon about the debate we're having and stop with the small ball and actually try to really change gun culture in the united states. republicans will not do that. and if gun violence and protecting children and protecting people at a parade is what it should inform your vote, do not vote republican. there's only one choice and it's to vote for democrats. >> and at the end of the day, michael, it is up to the voters. i was in wonderful jackson, mississippi, yesterday. talking with a lovely republican gentleman. and we had this conversation. he had to agree with me. here is the challenge, republican voters don't seem to want anything. they just want trump to be happy. like there's not an ask. because they -- they claim their ask was immigration. republicans said, no, we're not passing a bill on immigration but we'll impeach mayorkas going

nowhere in the senate, impeach this guy they don't know who he is. they don't really care about immigration. they say they care about it because they won't punish republicans for not doing anything on immigration. literally you have a base of a party whose only desire is for trump to smile. when he smiles, they smile. when he's happy, they're happy. they don't have a policy set of asks. it's just him being happy. >> well, there is one fundamental policy ask that you're overlooking, joy, with all due respect, of course. and that is own the libs. that's the policy ask. it applies to everything. if you own the libs for us, we're good. so that's why on the border, the inconsistency, the hypocrisy on the border, the, oh, well we can't do x until you give us security on the border. well, here is the border bill. no, we don't want to do that. that doesn't bother them because it is the act of owning the libs

that drives the ethos, that drives the -- that good feeling, that tickle me and rub my belly kind of feeling, right? that's where a lot of them are. and trump does that at every turn. and they in turn do it for him. so there is no -- i mean, we're talking about a party that doesn't have a damn platform. we can't even -- even if we wanted to have a policy discussion, what would it be on? >> they have a platform. they have a platform. their platform is what makes you happy, sir? what can we do for you, sir? what will make you smile, sir? that's the policy platform, what makes you happy, sir. we'll do that. michael steele and david jolly, thank you. we'll be right back. and david thank you. we'll be right back.

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the israeli military carried out an extensive wave of air strikes today in retaliation for a rocket attack in northern israel. the escalation and cross-border attacks threaten diplomatic talks. meanwhile, the state department is investigating reports of harm to gazan civilians by israel using u.s.-made weapons. the situationed in gaza is still dire as israel vows to move forward with a planned ground invasion of rafa in the south. more than 28,000 people have been killed in gaza since the war began, according to the palestinian health ministry. while its population faces potential famine. on monday, senator chris van

holland of maryland described the situation, citing recent warning from the world food program. >> kids in gaza are now dying from the deliberate with holding of food. in addition to the horror of that news, one other thing is true, that is a war crime. it is a textbook war crime. and that makes those who orchestrate it war criminals. >> senator chris van hollen joins me now. senator, thank you so much for being here. i would like you to say more about what you are describing as a war crime. "the new york times" does report that finance minister has said he's ordered fine finance minister bill souls motorbike has ordered flower shipments not to be sent

to an association affiliated with hamas. is that what you're talking about, or more? >> i made that statement on the senate floor the day i learned from cindy mccain, who is the head of the world food programme, that we had crossed this awful threshold from people on the verge of starvation to the fact that kids had died in gaza of starvation. and israel has absolutely the right to defend itself against the horrific hamas attacks of october 7th. by the netanyahu government doesn't have the right, under international law, to restrict access of innocent palestinians to food and water, to the point of south starvation, to the point where kids are dying. that is unacceptable. >> let me push you a little bit on this point. in the very beginning of these

operations, i believe it was a defense minister from israel who said, we are turning of the food, we are turning off the water, we are turning off the electricity. so they telegraphed that they were going to stop everything and anything from flowing into gaza to civilians, clearly. he's that a change, if this is what is happening now? because this is what they telegraphed, and this is part of the reason that south africa has taken him to the icj. >> you are, right at the beginning the netanyahu government imposed absolute siege on gaza. then, after some urging from the united states in the international community, they opened up the -- crossing, which has now allowed a trickle of aid to get through. but it is still very dangerous to deliver that assistance because every international aid organization that has been,

every international aid organization that has been delivering international assistance for the decades as they have never seen a worse situation than in gaza today. as you mentioned, prime minister netanyahu and he is very extreme right wing members of his coalition, like smotrich, are withholding food assistance. this flower, this u.s.-made and provided flower is sitting in a port in israel but they refused to send it to people who are starving in gaza. so that is unacceptable, and the united states, in my view, needs to invoke a statute, a law, on the books, called the humanitarian aid corridors act, that says that the united states will not continue to provide security assistance to any country that impedes our ability to deliver humanitarian assistance to desperate people.

>> let me ask you very quickly, should the u.s. also stop sending weapons if they are being used against civilians? particularly given that we have now seen a second palestinian teenager killed, not in gaza, but in the west bank. a palestinian american, american citizen boy, 17 years old, shot in the west bank. what is the u.s. government doing about that? and for the weapons stop flowing? >> this is what i said on the senate floor. i do believe that we should withhold sending weapons. first of all until humanitarian assistance can get to people who are literally starving right now. and there's a lot already on the books to do that. it is also why, myself along with 18 senators introduced an amendment to this national security supplemental that the president then did implement via what is called a national security memorandum, number 20, that's now will require that

all u.s. assistance be provided only with promises that the country, in this case the netanyahu government, will abide by international humanitarian law. it's essential that biden now implement that requirement. >> senator, thank you, we are out of time, but i appreciate you being here tonight. senator chris van hollen, we appreciate it, we'll be right back. be right back.

>> okay, before i go, i would like to thank all of my readers who are also readers, get it? so what i did there? i'm thrilled and honored to tell you that my new book, the love story that awaken america, will debut at number one of the newer times bestseller list this sunday. number one. numero no. i love sharing this book with you and meeting all of you. the crowd last night in jackson, mississippi, the place where so many of the things in this book took place, was just incredible. thank you for coming out. thanks especially to reena and the evers family, the evers institute, the mississippi civil rights museum, my interviewees, and the first lady of jackson. to those of you in california, i will be at pomona college in fairmount tomorrow. then on friday i will be at couplers and menlo park, also it seven pm. so be sure to go to medgar and merely.com, no, it's msnbc.com slash maker and merely. that's tonight's reidout. all in with chris hayes