good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city, and we are tracking three enormously consequential stories unfolding simultaneously as we come on the air. in fulton county, the courtroom drama has become a family

affair. d.a.'s father john floyd called by fani willis's side to corroborate her testimony. but as far as the key question of when she started dating her colleague nathan wade, he said this. >> when did you learn that your daughter had a romantic personal relationship with mr. wade? >> about seven weeks ago. i just found out when other folks found out. >> we are keeping our eyes on the courtroom where any moment now that hearing is scheduled to resume. plus, devastating consequences. that's what president biden promised in 2021 for russia, if vladimir putin's staunchest critic alexei navalny died in prison. now that it's happened, the president didn't waste any time blaming putin. while insisting russia has been paying a price ever since navalny was arrested he also said the u.s. is figuring out what else can be done. it's not every day someone faces the possibility of losing

$370 million. that's exactly what donald trump is facing as we wait for the huge decision from ha new york judge later this afternoon. money isn't the only thing trump could lose, the man who made his career as a titan of manhattan real estate now looking at the possibility of being barred from ever doing business in new york again. so a lot to get to, but we start in georgia where fani willis's father, john floyd took the stand today, feisty, direct, and corroborating much of the d.a.'s testimony. the enormous stakes of this hearing, whether his daughter, the d.a. and her team will remain on the trump rico case or not. attorneys on both sides probing into two key aspects of the misconduct allegations, the time line of willis's relationship with nathan wade and whether she benefitted from wade's position as special prosecutor. on thursday willis forcefully rejected that insisting she reimbursed wade with cash after he paid for trips they took. today her father testified that wasn't unusual.

>> what i told my child from the time she was a child is always have some money, always have some money. if you go on a date so that people don't try to stick you and you want to leave whoever, always keep some cash, okay? >> i want to bring in msnbc's legal correspondent katie phang who is outside the fulton county courthouse, robert james is former district attorney for dekalb county, georgia, and kristy greenberg is a former federal prosecutor and was deputy chief of the criminal division for sdny. okay, katie, two witnesses today, former governor barnes, fani willis's father. what's the big headline so far? >> reporter: yeah, so i think the defense continues to not carry its burden of being able to prove that there is an actual conflict of interest that would justify the disqualification of d.a. fani willis. the reason why i say that is all of this testimony that we're hearing since yesterday and today has to be considered in

the framework that this is an evidentiary hearing. again, this is the time for the defense and the state to put aside and to put to bed any of the innuendos, the salacious rumors and the gossip about what's going on and actually put up or shut up, present that evidence that would substantiate the relief that you're seeking from the court. in the absence of being able to are prove that legally, there is no reason for mcafee to disqualify fani willis and by default the entire office of fani willis from this prosecution. but you also have to consider that because it's just the judge in this case that's hearing the evidence, he's weighing the credibility of these witnesses and to hear from someone like a former governor in the state of georgia and to hear from somebody like the father of d.a. fani willis to consider their motivations as to why they have testified the way that they did, that is going to be part of the analysis that you're going to have judge mcafee consider at this time. >> thanks so much, we're going to go back into the courtroom where wade's former law partner

is on the stand. let's go in. >> but secondhand, third hand speculative things. ms. merchant's questions don't differentiate those categories of information, and i'm concerned about the questions being proposed without that qualification so that mr. riley doesn't know when to invoke the privilege. i think the testimony yesterday is he didn't have any personal knowledge of any of this. that was my understanding of the testimony. i believe that was mr. bradley's sworn testimony yesterday, and my concern is that the unsourced hearsay is where we're going to get to really fast. >> sure, and i think that's a fair point. i think she's following the script that she already provided you, so we have more than enough notice of when that might be coming. i think the second she asks a question that you think might weigh into that, make the

objection and we can rephrase as necessary. ms. merchant, you can re-ask that last question. >> you read an article -- discussing how much you and mr. wade -- correct? >> that is correct. >> and you called me that same day and left me a voice mail on my cell phone asking me to call you back? >> i do not recall that, but i do not recall that. >> you don't recall that? >> i do not. >> so it's possible that that happened. >> i do not recall calling you after the article came out. i was shown the article, but i do not recall calling you after the article. >> can you tell us your phone number? >> it's 334- -- >> hold on. why is that relevant ms. merchant. >> i need to establish that his phone number is the one that all of the texts that he had with me -- >> just ask him if he's texted you at some point, we can stipulate that as a matter of record. we don't need that as a merit of record. >> how about this, can i show

him a copy of his -- what he saved in my phone? >> sure. >> i'll just do that. may i approach the bench? >> sure. >> take a look at that and verify if that's your number and your cell phone? >> that is my number and my cell phone. >> is that also your email address? >> that is my email address. >> okay. thank you. and i'll keep that separate, judge. redact -- >> so after -- whether or not you left a message on my voice mail, the next day we were in court in front of judge harris on september 12th, 2023, do you recall that? >> i do recall being in judge harris, yes, i do. >> and your attorney was there and i was there and another attorney burt cohen were there, correct? >> those people were there at the time, bc was not my attorney, i didn't realize i

needed an attorney until i was subpoenaed. >> but bc -- was there? >> i'm going to object to the relevance of this. >> ms. cross, as i see this line of testimony, much of it is i'm taking in response to the original how we started off this whole hearing that ms. merchant had no basis whatsoever to bring this and she should be sanctioned and i think she's laying that out. okay, all right, ms. merchant. >> i recall it was in a conference room in the front. i don't know. i know you were handling a case and judge harris, i was speaking to burt about a case, and bc was there to speak to burt about a case. i do recall that happening, but i can't recall who else was there. it was a regular court date. >> that conference room, that's sort of -- in cobb county there's a conference room in

front -- >> correct. >> and it's not a public -- it's sort of like a jury room. >> correct. >> and it was the four of us in that room talking? >> i don't recall if anybody else was there. i will say that i do remember at some point it was myself, you, bc, and burt there, but people were coming in and out of the courtroom so i cannot sit here and say -- accurately say that somebody else wasn't there at the time. >> we talked -- i mean, and people could have come and gone, but essentially we talked for about a half an hour. >> no, it wasn't an hour. >> and that's the only time we spoke in person about anything related to this matter, correct? >> correct. >> and based on that phone conversation, i told you i had been submitting open records requests and i was going to continue to submit open records requests, correct? >> based on what phone conversation? >> based on our conversation.

>> correct, you said that you were doing some open records requests, correct. >> and based op our conversation, i told i was going to do some additional open records requests? >> which open records requests are you talking about? >> just any, just asking if we talked about i was doing some follow-up to fulton county, i can specify that. >> okay. because i recall open records requests being made for other things, and so i don't know which one that you're referring to. >> at that time we talked about getting -- i guess it's called a county card and getting access cards and things like that for coming in and out of fulton county, for you, mr. wade, and all of the access that you all had. >> yes, yes, and you asked me, did i have an access card? >> and you are the one that told me that you and mr. wade -- that mr. wade at least had an access card. >> i told you that the three of us had an access card because we

had a contract with the d.a.'s office or the county. i told you what those contracts were, and that we had an access card that will allow us to pick up the documents, go into a specific office and leave ou. >> so we talked about that access -- i was going to ask for that, right? >> correct. and then a couple days later i sent you a text -- and when i say a couple of days, so that was on september 12th when we had that conversation. >> do you mind if i pull out my phone? >> not at all. >> on september 14th at 6:38

p.m. >> and what day was this? >> it was september 14th. >> september 14th, correct. >> and i sent you a screen shot of a fulton county's open records request i did. >> yes, and i said wow. >> and then -- and then we continued to -- >> wait, wait, wait. and then you sent another text about a badge, and i did not respond. you sent another text about an entrance card. i did not respond. you spent another text about some other badges and with a circle around it and i did not respond. >> i'm sorry. thank you. >> all right. mr. bradley if you could just respond to the question asked and only the question asked. >> i have an additional. >> okay. >> thing i want to raise. ms. merchant provided some text messages that she was going to

refer to. the text messages are inconsistent with mr. bradley's exchange as he apparently is reading it off of his phone, so if i could ask ms. merchant is this a true, accurate and complete and perhaps we could see what's on mr. bradley's phone. more importantly, i am going to object -- being able to establish contact based on previous statements made, and i'm concerned about going into the content of the statements without putting things in the buckets that i've identified. >> sure, and so am i, ms. merchant, i'm not seeing so much the relevance of the back and forth, i'm allowing you to establish the contact that was made in line with the outline you provided me, and i think we're on track with that. were you planning to tender these text messages? >> i'm discussing them with him. now, if yesterday he said we didn't talk text about this case, so if that was assessed again today, yes, at least i would show them to him to refresh his recollection or to impeach him, but judge, their

first part of that argument is foundation, what i'm assuming they're saying all of these. they're not all relevant. i can give you all of my texts, but they're not all relevant. they asked for screen shots. if there's a way to submit my entire text history with mr. bradley, that's fine. if they want us to read every single text, that's fine. i just don't want to be in a position where people are saying that i'm not -- >> i also want to avoid the situation where you as counsel of record are having to lay the foundation and do that sort of thing yourself, i don't know how much further we can do with this before we get into that. >> i'm not sure what their objection is. so i asked him about one question ask he read off several others. >> why don't we go with your next question and see where we go from there. >> all right. let's -- >> but so -- >> wait for her to ask a

question. >> and i understand that, judge. >> apparently you don't, sir. wait for her to ask a question and you'll have a chance. >> so i think the last thing i asked you was about september 14th. so those texts that you're talking about those refer to the issue we're here today about, though? >> some texts did, yes. >> and then you called me again on september 15th, 2023, and we spoke on the phone? >> i do not recall that. >> i texted you and said i needed to call you back and then i later called you back? >> i'm not sure. i do not recall. >> you don't recall that? okay. >> and do you recall the following monday -- >> your honor, i appreciate the question as it is on the form and if the question is what she's going to read, i object to it even being asked out loud without knowing the relevance of it if that -- if the witness is going to answer his source of information and i feel like it so inflammatory as to say out

loud without knowing where mr. bradley falls on that, then i do have an objection to the questioning. >> okay. all right. >> just a moment. why is it that we're not allowed to ask questions and then when the question is asked there's an objection made either by the state or the lawyers for this particular witness, it appears that what the state likes to do is force us telling you in advance every question we wanted to ask before there's an objection raised, and i don't want -- understand why they get to do that. the questions asked, state objects, and court rules but not being able to put it on the record because it's inflammatory or somehow prejudicial, i don't

think that -- i'm just suggesting. >> sure, so mr. sadow, i'd agree with you in the general sense of things but this this situation, ms. merchant offered to provide essentially her list of questions in advance giving us a preview of what she's going to say and that puts us in kind of a different posture in that respect where we can actually have some sense of what's going to come out, but ms. merchant, i think knowing what your next question may be, since usually we don't have that opportunity, does it presuppose some knowledge on his part that we have yet to establish is inside or outside of privilege? >> the first thing, judge, is i gave these questions so that we wouldn't be in a situation where we were objecting and having four different lawyers talk about privileged confidential every single question. i would hoping we would ferret that out ahead of time. this is the first i've heard that objection to question 18, trying to be completely transparent. i have to establish that his information, there have been statements in this court that i

lied, multiple statements yesterday, i can't even tell you how many times that was said under oath yesterday and that i did not get this information. >> which i've already said we can do and go over, but -- and we've already started doing that, but the next question as you plan to ask it may presuppose, again, some information that he has that we need to determine whether it's inside or outside of privilege, is that right? >> no. well, i don't believe so, no. i mean, if we're going to talk about the privilege, i wanted to talk about it before hand, which is why i gave all of these before hand. i didn't know the state had objections to these on privilege. if we're going to talk about the privilege. i'm happy to ask him the substance of the question, but that is what i'm getting objections for. i'm happy to just ask outright the question. >> right, i don't see a way around that, ms. cross. >> i understand, your honor, i'm going to do whatever you tell me to do. the problem in the context that ms. merchant is posing the

questions is this was our communication, this is what i asked you. this is what you told me, and here are these texts that are supporting it. i understand the court's ruling that based on how things have gone, he needs to establish there was contact and communication, i don't have an objection to that. however, number one, the text message exchange that ms. merchant gave me is apparently not complete, and so i don't know without making her a witness how the state can -- i think we're entitled to, if she's going to refer to text messages, we're entitled to an accurate representation of what those are. mr. bradley is looking at his phone. that's what he's got. he is under no obligation. ms. merchant provided those to us and i appreciate it. and i can't tell if we have an accurate or inaccurate resuscitation if what she gave me is complete.

>> we're continuing to hear this debate in the courtroom about what terrence bradley who is a former law partner of nathan wade but also the attorney in his divorce can and cannot say. we thought during the break that this had already been settled, clearly it is not. we want to bring back katie phang, roberts james, former district attorney for dekalb county, georgia, and kristy greenberg, former federal prosecutor who was deputy chief of the criminal division for sdny. so let me ask you, robert. what's happening here? >> well, it sounds like they're trying to ask his law partner or former law partner questions. the problem is when you're asking questions of lawyers about conversations that lawyers may have had with one another, you know, there's various privileges that can be triggered if there was a relationship where, you know, representation was included. and so it sounds like they're tiptoeing through what could potentially be a minefield and

assistant d.a. cross is trying not to ring the bell because she knows once that bell is rung and it's out, it's out, but i think the judge sees it differently, you know, whether or not foundation can be established or not. the question has to be asked first. it's going to be interesting. >> katie, let's give people a little bit of background. i'll just start and you can pick up. this began yesterday, the question of how much he can say, whether it would be a violation of attorney/client privilege. he went off the stand for yesterday. then there was a delay because apparently of a doctor's appointment, but the question at the heart of this is, right, what does he know about what's relevant to this case, including when the willis/wade relationship started, right? >> reporter: chris, you are absolutely correct. it's not just what did terrence bradley know but when and how did he obtain that information. that's what we're thinking about when robert talks about that

minefield. you've got to be really careful about asking questions that invade the attorney/client privilege. one of the most sacrosanct privileges that exists between a attorney and their client, to violate it is wrong. the right to that privilege is to the client. yesterday mr. wade was asked in court do you waive that privilege? he said emphatically, i do not. the judge has indicated that there should be questions that can be asked of mr. bradley outside of the realm of that attorney/client privilege, and there was questions, there was a list of questions that were provided by ashleigh merchant to the state, there was some back and forth, and according to the court it looked like they had navigated where to go, but welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the real world of trial. to the real world of hearings and court as we know, it's kind of hard to always anticipate where some of these snafus can pop up. >> so what a are you watching for now, kristy? what do you think is at the heart of this, and is this an extremely difficult decision to

navigate for the judge? >> well, it is a difficult decision because really what you're -- it seems like his relevance is related particularly to the timing of the relationship. when did fani willis and nathan wade begin that relationship, and that's relevant as to when any financial benefit could have been had for the d.a. from that relationship. and you had testimony before from her former friend who said they were affectionate sometime before november of 2021 when mr. wade was hired. you then heard from fani willis and from nathan wade both saying they began dating sometime in early 2022. so really the question is can he shed some more light on the timing of the relationship. the problem is that this -- that this witness represented nathan wade in his divorce proceedings at least for a time. if he knows that they were in a

relationship, what is the source of that? did he learn that in connection with relating nathan wade, in connection with his divorce, or did he learn that simply from being one of his law partners at a later time? i think those are the questions that frankly i would have expected to have been ironed out in argument perhaps, you know, just before the judge and not necessarily on camera given the sensitivity. i would have expected those issues to have been hashed out before so it's a little surprising that it's coming up now. >> and the question of whether he can corroborate what some people said was testimony that may not have been as strong as they needed from robin bryant yeartie who said the relationship started before either nathan wade or d.a. fani willis said it did. we're going to continue to listen in to this, katie phang and robert james, thank you. kristy greenberg, stay with me. there is new political outrage from president biden after russian opposition leader and putin critic alexei navalny

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just a very short time ago, president biden celebrated the legacy and bravery of the russian opposition leader, alexei navalny who reportedly died in a russian prison today after serving years behind bars for his fight against corruption. president biden making it clear who he believes is behind it. >> make no mistake, putin is

responsible for navalny's death. putin is responsible. what has happened to navalny is yet more proof of putin's brutality. >> his remarks on the russian president coming after a dramatic and heartbreaking appearance by navalny's widow who told world leaders at the munich security conference she considered going home p when she got the news of his death, but then she asked herself what would alexei do in her place. much like her husband and joe biden she took aim at the russian president. >> translator: i would like putin and all his staff, everybody around him, his government, his friends, i want them to know that they will be punished for what they have done with our country, with my family and with my husband. they will be brought to justice

and this day will come soon. >> alexei navalny was just 47 years old. his final public words a valentine's day message to his wife, baby, everything with us is like a song, between us there are cities, takeoff lights of airfields, blue snowstorms and thousands of kilometers, but i feel that you are near every second, and i love you with all my strength. nbc's richard engel now with more on navalny's life and legacy. >> as russia's leading opposition figure, alexei navalny piled pressure on the kremlin. and put put a target on its back, born in 1976 in the soviet union, navalny trained as a lawyer and rose to prominence as a political blogger. in 2011, he started the anticorruption foundation which

exposed the extravagant wealth of russian officials including president vladimir putin. >> the biggest thing that putin is afraid of is public discontent in russia, and that is why it's afraid of opposition leaders. >> reporter: navalny's and putin's stars were intertwined, navalny became a leading figure at antigovernment protests. >> translator: we will force them to live by the law because we hold the power here, he shouted. he was arrested countless times and turned attacks to his advantage. in 2017 after announcing his intentions to run for president, navalny was attacked with green dye twice. >> translator: maybe the kremlin thinks that i will not record videos with a green face, he said, but now even more people will watch. >> reporter: in 2019 as navalny's anticorruption foundation gained support nationally, police raided their offices and arrested several activists including of course navalny. but in 2020, his life was

threatened like never before. on a plane traveling from siberia to moscow, navalny became deathly ill. he fell into a coma and was put on a ventilator. while recovering in a german hospital, investigators revealed he had been poisoned with novichok, a soviet era neurotoxin, navalny blamed putin for the attack, a claim the kremlin denies. miraculously navalny recovered, documenting the whole thing on social media. ♪ how bizarre ♪ >> despite the threats against his life in january 2021, navalny and his wife yulia voluntarily returned to moscow where he was immediately arrested, ostensibly for violating the terms of a 2014 embezzlement case. once in jail, he was tried and sentenced to more than nine years in a maximum security prison.

navalny said the charges were politically motivated. but even behind bars, he found ways to make his voice heard using social media to protest the ukraine war and needle those in power. his legacy is one of defiance, a constant thorn in the side of the kremlin. >> reporter: navalny's aides and members of his inner circle have not confirmed his death, but they say if true, it is not a matter of alexei navalny dying, but of alexei navalny having been killed by vladimir putin. >> richard engel, thank you. i want to bring in nbc news white house correspondent allie raffa. i mentioned earlier that the president just spoke. what did he say about where this goes from here? >> reporter: we know alexei navalny over his years of working to expose government corruption in russia, promote democracy in that country, he has earned the respect of many world leaders, and president biden is clearly among them. he made that abundantly clear

during these remarks he gave from the roosevelt room of the white house where he called navalny everything that president putin is not, he called him brave and principled. he offered his condolences to navalny's widow and said they have already sacrificed so much. he said he was outraged but not surprised by these reports of navalny's death, that he said he had no reason to believe are not true, and he, as you mentioned, clearly laid the blame for his death at president putin's feet, saying make no mistake, president putin is responsible for navalny's death. he was asked by my colleague peter alexander whether this was considered an assassination by the united states and what consequences russia could face as a result of alexei navalny's death. he said, quote, we don't know exactly what happened and options are being considered right now for how the u.s. would potentially respond. chris, he also used this

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right now donald trump is waiting to hear if he'll be hit with hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties and a lifetime ban from doing business in the city where he made his name. the judge ruling in this landmark civil fraud trial taking direct aim at both his reputation and his wallet, and there's a cumulative impact because, remember, he already owes the writer e. jean carroll $83.3 million in a separate defamation case, and all his legal fees keep mounting in four criminal cases. i want to bring in former assistant attorney general for new york, tristan snell. he led the investigation into trump university and is the author of "taking down trump," 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by someone who did it successfully. also here with us, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and "new york times" investigative reporter suzanne craig. both were inside that courtroom covering the trial. okay, lisa, since you were watching all this unfold, what

are you looking for in this ruling? >> i'm looking for a number, and i'm looking at the end of the decision for what kind of -- what lawyers call injunctive penalties the defendants are going to be subjected to. >> are you looking for a big number? >> i am, i'm expecting a big number in part because the experts that donald trump put on the stand were not all that successful in rebutting the testimony that the attorney general's office put on. he essentially had an expert in accounting who said that if there had been fraud in his financial statements they would have looked different. it would have screamed out to him. and then he was asked, well, did you ever review the work papers that underlay those financial statements, he never did. he never even asked the question. he was sort of useless as an expert, even though he was very well credentialed, and so i am looking today to see how big that number is and if it starts with a 3 or a 2, if we're starting with a 1, then the attorney general's office will be disappointed, i think. >> so sue, you and i spoke many

times during that, go ahead, what do you think? >> i want to hear what lisa's -- what's your guess? >> ooh, oh, that's so unfair, sue. >> i would never put you in that position, but since she did. >> what's my guess? ooh, hard to say, and i think it really turns on how much judge engoron believes that these civil claims were committed with what is criminal intent. one of the things that i think is poorly understood about this law is it's basically a civil way of penalizing people who do financially fraudulent criminal activity without ever having to charge them with a crime. so their intent is key here. if he finds that the individual defendants or other representatives of the trump organization all conspired together to orchestrate this years' long fraud on donald trump's financial institutions, insurers and other people who could have been his lenders, i think you're going to see a larger award, the more intent,

the bigger the number. >> i think it's going to come in just -- i would predict it on the higher end. i think the main reason is coming into this he was already found liable on the main count. this is now a gain of damages. i think the other mitigating factor was what happened with allen weisselberg at the end, where there was an issue of did he commit perjury on the stand. that really seemed to set the judge off. we saw that based on correspondence made public between the judges and the lawyers. he seemed really hot under the collar on it. i think you have a lot of information coming in that suggests this is going to be object high end. at one time the judge said we have a courtroom full of evidence. so i think we're looking both at a number figure that could be, i don't know if you want to say a death knell for him, but it's going to be a huge number for him to meet, potentially that the attorney general was seeking 370 million, and as you mentioned at the outset, that's in addition to the 83.3 million

for e. jean carroll and another 5 million, and that does not include some other financial threats, some alligators that he has around him right now. this is a tough day for donald trump. >> so we're waiting for it, and it could literally come in anytime now, tristan. and as i said, you literally wrote the book on how to prosecute a case involving donald trump. this is in many ways a complicated one if you want to look through all the paperwork and the figures and all that, but there's another simpler part of it, right, which is did he inflate his net worth? did he, their argument is, cause harm by misrepresenting? let me take the other side. his lawyer said nobody was actually harmed and the banks that gave him the money actually were happy to give him the money. did the prosecution make its case? >> the prosecution absolutely made its case. for one thing this is not a crime for which there is not a crime.

it's a misdeed, it's a civil prosecution, a statutory fraud provision called executive loss 6312. it does not require a victim. the whole point of passing statutes like this is to say it doesn't matter if there's a victim who can bring what's referred to as a common law fraud claim. it doesn't matter if deutsche bank realizes that it's been defrauded and they would have had a harder time bringing the case themselves. the new york legislature and the legislature of many other states in this country that have passed similar laws made the policy decision that it was too important not to protect the marketplace, the people of the state of new york, that's the plaintiff in this case, not a bank, not an insurance company, not an appraiserer, no one else. it's the people who have been harmed here, and it's our public interest in a marketplace of transparency and not of lies and that is especially paramount here in new york where this is still, thank god, the capital of business for the whole world. and if we don't have transparency here in new york for how we conduct business, we

will no longer be the business capital of the world, this a big deal. >> folks have argued, tristan that a lot of people knew what was going on with donald trump, this was not like a shocking revelation in many ways, but do you think that judge engoron is looking at i need to send this message? the one you just -- the argument you just made? >> i think that is part of it. that's certainly part of what the a.g.'s office has argued. remember, all of this is happening today, and then it's all going to get appealed, of course, right? then we're going to see this all over again when we have the appellate arguments about, again, the liability is going to stick here. there was fraud. the question is how bad is the punishment. how high does that dollar figure going. i'm saying $285 million. >> i'm writing it down, tris tall 2585. >> i might be dead wrong, but i might as well give a number, why not. whether the corporate charters are going to get canceled. >> that's the second part of this, lisa, and in many ways for donald trump and his psyche and

his belief that he is the most important and successful businessman in the history of manhattan, having to leave new york is something different altogether. what -- what is decided and is that separate from the penalty that involves dollars? because my understanding is to kick somebody essentially out of doing business in new york is very rare. >> it is, but you'll remember judge engoron when he granted summary judgment on just the question of fraud in september found that the cancellation of the trump organization's business certificates for the entities that are at issue here was warranted. that's been on hold so that donald trump can appeal that decision along with whatever penalties come down today. chris, the other thing beyond the cancellation of his business in general is also who gets to run that business. people keep focusing on the dollar figure, but the attorney

general's office is also asking for a lifetime ban for donald trump's participation in the commercial real estate industry here in new york, but maybe even more important a five-year ban for his sons eric and don jr. both on there serving as officers and directors of new york corporations and their participation in the real estate industry. they run the trump organization now, not nominally, actually. and they were very clear to claim that responsibility even as they distanced themselves from the review of the financial statements at trial, they wanted everyone to know we are in charge now. we run these projects. donald trump jr. basically gave a virtual tour of the entire trump real estate empire from the witness stand, and so if they can't run the trump o, guess what happens, nobody with the last name trump can as the rest of these remedies play themselves out. >> sue, when i ask a question like this, i always preface it by saying i don't really like to ask someone to get into someone else's head, but i'm going to

ask you to do that. what would it mean if this was a really tough decision if it's 285 or if it starts with a 3, and especially if he can't do business in new york anymore, what does that mean for donald trump? you've covered him. you watched him on the stand. what would it mean? >> right, it's a big deal, and i think i've really been feeling a little bit of history pulling on me today because i start to think about his father and when his father started his business, he was a teenager. his father had died during the pandemic in 1918, and he started out as a teenager, you know, building houses. he built a garage for his neighbors. he started out with single family that were created during the wars, he got into federally funded programs, and ended up building an empire. part of it was through taking advantage of some of the loop holes in those programs. but he built an empire out in the boroughs of new york. it meant something, and he is one of the names in the city that, i think, people who have been here for a long time know.

he's historic developer, and when he died in 1999, his empire, his assets were eventually sold for $800 million in 2004. so this is a legacy issue for this family when i start to think about how significant it is. it's not just that donald trump may be forced to sell assets and he's going to be basically run out of new york in terms of how to do business, but this is a story to me that spans 100-plus years, and that legacy that the trump family has in this town. >> and that legacy that he said repeatedly during the course of this trial, both in and outside the courtroom that he feels that the trump name is incredibly valuable. that it is, indeed, the legacy, the name. >> i think it means something else now. >> lisa, sue, tristan, thank you all so much. the objections are piling up. first from donald trump, and now his top lawyer, complaining about having to be in the courtroom next month for the start of his hush money trial.

with jury selection now set to begin march 25th, sandwiched right between multiple primaries, his lawyer said this. the fact that president trump is going to now spend the next two months working on this trial instead of out on the campaign trail running for president, it should not happen in this country. nbc's vaughn hillyard is reporting from west palm beach, florida. back with us, kristy greenberg. what do we know? how is donald trump going to handle campaigning while having to be in court? i know we talked a little bit about it yesterday. >> reporter: right. so far he has put his priority in defending himself in the courtroom, or at least appearing in the courtroom to hear his attorneys defend himself. i want to let you listen to donald trump yesterday when he left the courtroom. take a listen. >> we'll just have to figure it out. i'll be here during the day. i'll be campaigning during the night. biden should be doing the same thing, but he'll be sleeping. >> how do you plan on

campaigning while you're in court, sir? >> i'll do it in the evening. >> reporter: what you just outlined is what the team around donald trump outlines. for donald trump in the year of 2024, it's not just about his political campaign, but it's also about the legal campaign. as one adviser told me recently, donald trump is not going to let these prosecutors have an open shot on goal, he is going to go and defend himself. because in the situation of, let's just say, the hush money payment case, these are state charges and if, in fact, donald trump were to lose the election in november and be found guilty on these 34 felony counts, for him, the repercussions go way beyond the political. you're talking about potential prison time, and in the case of the civil fraud trial that we are waiting for the decision from judge engoron, we're talking about the fate of his family business, the corporation, the way he makes the money for his him and his family. for donald trump, it's much more than the political here in 2024,

but also the legal, his own potential fate, but also that of his company. >> so during his hearing yesterday, and we're looking at these pictures now, the new york courthouse set up a spot where trump could address cameras outside the courtroom. that's not going to work in every courthouse, is it. and do you expect the judge there to allow that to continue when the trial actually starts. >> so we definitely didn't see that in federal court in the southern district of new york. judge kaplan made sure there were no cameras outside the courtroom for the e. jean carroll trial. state court is different. this is a state court case, and in the civil fraud trial, he was permitted to have cameras outside the courtroom or outside the courthouse where he could give these speeches. i expect he'll find a place to be able to make these speeches each day and that he will be treating this hush money trial as part of his campaign strategy. >> kristy greenberg, vaughn

hillyard, thank you both so much. and coming up, nathan wade's former law partner is still on the stand in georgia, what he knew about the relationship between wade and d.a. fani willis. stay close, much more "chris jansing reports" on a very busy day just after this. mom, is yellow a light or a dark? how do i clean an aioli stain? thankfully, tide's the answer to almost all of them. why do we even buy napkins? use tide. can cold water clean white socks? it can with tide. do i need to pretreat guacamole? not with tide. this is chocolate, right? -just use... -tide...yeah. no matter who's doing it, on what cycle, or in what temperature, tide works. so i can focus on all the other questions. do crabs have eyebrows? ahh... for all of life's laundry questions, it's got to be tide. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people

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"chris jansing reports." at this hour, a father's testimony, fani willis's dad takes the stand as his daughter faces disqualification from donald trump's case. what he revealed about the nightmare security threats she's faced from people who said they wanted to blow up her house and kill her family. plus, when he said he first found out about her relationship with the special prosecutors she's now accused of having an affair with. and up here in new york, a critical decision looming in trump's landmark civil fraud case, will the former president be hit with $370 million in fines and a lifetime ban from doing business in new york. i'll talk to someone who was in the room covering the entire trial. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. let's go first to msnbc legal correspondent, katie phang who's in georgia. a long delay before testimony started today. what have we heard that's critical here. >>