when you buy one unlimited line. plus, get the new samsung galaxy s24 on us. a final note in the two hours that you have been on the air, the interest has continued to accrual on what donald trump owes as a result of his civil fraud trial. resulting in thousands of dollars more, more, okay, in the fines and when we started. folks, that is of russ on the weekend. the saturday morning, be sure to follow the show on social media at the weekend msnbc. velshi starts right now. he's coming back, he was here before, and ali, you have michael cohen on today. alicia talk to him yesterday. we can't wait to see what's going on. >> i, mean-alicious probably sitting there, that's old news, but michael cohen has new stuff for us this morning. it was my pleasure by the way this morning to be a weekend

sandwich. [laughter] i appreciate, symone, you leaning into the fact that i'm an economic journalist to point out that yes, in the two hours that you've been on, dangerous the don trump owes continues to accrue. have yourselves a great day. >> more money! >> have yourselves a great rest of the day. see you tomorrow morning. >> goodbye, ali. good morning. it is saturday, february 17th. ali velshi. we're not even two full months into 2024. donald trump has already had quite a year politically. he has never been stronger. he has dominated the republican primaries and is on the fast- track to clinch the presidential nomination. his life away from the campaign trail is entirely different story. in the eyes of the law, he has never been more vulnerable. as his legal problems intensify, the penalties for his misconduct pileup. yesterday, the former president was ordered to pay a total of

453 point $5 million for his company's deceptive financial practices. the judgment includes 354 point $9 million in penalties, plus 98 point $6 million in interest. a monumental some the new york times speculates could, quote, wipeout trumps entire stockpile of cash, and quote. in addition, trump is running for -- barred from personally running a company in new york for three years. he cannot apply for a loan for many banks in the state for that same amount of time. severe penalties were also handed down to the other defendants in the case. trump's two eldest sons, don junior and eric, both of whom are executives in the family business, they were ordered to pay $4 million each. meanwhile, two former trump work executives, allen weisselberg and jeff mcconney have been permanently banned from serving in financial management rules for any company in new york. weisselberg was fined $1 million and all four have been

barred from personally running a company in new york for some period of time. this is the case that is often referred to as the new york civil fraud case. but that shorthand masks the scope and nature of the missed deeds for which trump has now been held liable. back in september, judge arthur engoron, issued a summary judgment in the case before the trial began. he found trump and his company liable for committing fraud for years. often wildly inflating the true value of trump's assets, in order to obtain more favorable loans. the case appeared to be airtight. gore on later remarked there, is quote, enough evidence in this case to fill this courtroom, and quote. yesterday's jaw-dropping judgment was the culmination of a years-long investigation that was set off by an exchange between a than freshman lawmaker and a former trump insider, way back in 2019.

>> to your, knowledge did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> who else knows that the president did this? >> allen weisselberg, ron liebermann and matthew calamari. >> where with the committee find more information on this? do you think we need to review his financial statements and his tax returns in order to compare them? >> yes. and you will find them at the trump org. >> among those who saw the viral clip in 2019, it was letitia james, who had just been inaugurated as the new attorney general of new york. not only it caught her attention, it provided her with a roadmap of the trump organization's shadowy business practices. by the next month, an investigation had begun. when james filed this lawsuit against trump more than three years later, she acknowledged the influence of michael cohen, congresswoman alexandria ocasio- cortez, and the hearing had on her case. it's a major victory for james and the devastating blow for trump, who used his reputation

as a successful new york businessman to build a national profile that powered his rise in politics all the way to the white house. even though trump remains a powerhouse in republican politics, his numerous legal cases now threatened to unravel the reality of his life and his career. in just the first seven weeks of this year, the twice impeached, four times indicted ex president has been held liable for sexual assault, defamation, and business fraud. as a result, he had secured more than half a billion dollars in civil penalties. in addition to yesterday's monster 453 million dollar judgment, a jury ordered trump to pay the writer e. jean carroll 83 point $3 million in damages. a different jury in a different trial last year awarded carroll and initial -- additional $5 million. this might only be the beginning of trump's troubles. this week, a judge confirmed that the first of his four criminal trials will move forward, beginning next month.

joining me now, one of the key witnesses in this case, one of the people who helped kick off this investigation. michael cohen. previously served as a council to donald trump, the author of new york times bestselling book, revenge, how donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics and disloyal. i'm, more as well as the host of his podcast, mea culpa with michael cohen. and the political beat down. michael, welcome. i've got a lot to talk to about. >> yes. >> i want to ask you first how your feeling about this. >> i think dish james and the prosecutors did an excellent job. i am obviously ecstatic with the decision that was put out by judge engoron, specifically pages 41 through 43, that referred to me and corroborate the fact that i told the truth. that i continue to tell the truth. that i have continuously told the truth once i excavated myself from the trump orbit. >> let me read a little bit

about that, what judge engoron said about you. he said cohen testified that although donald trump did not expressly direct him to reverse engineer financial statements, he ordered him to do so in directly in his mob voice. the animosity between the witness and the defendant is palpable, providing cohen with an incentive to lie, the court found his testimony credible, based on the relaxed manner in which he testified, the general plausibility of his statements and, most importantly, the way his testimony was corroborated by other trial evidence. a less forgiving fact finder might have concluded differently, might not have believed a single word of a convicted perjurer. this fact finder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth. michael cohen told the truth. >> again, i would think judge engoron. i would like just to 0.1 thing out. the answer is, yes i did plead

guilty under 1001 violations when i lied to congress. but something, including many of the pundits on these shows, like lisa rubin i was watching this morning, they're talking about the perjury and the fact that i had pled guilty to. it i want to be very clear, with a perjury was, it was the number of times that i claimed to have spoken to trump about a failed trump tower moscow real estate project. the true answer was ten. but donaldson like the number 10. he wanted three. and along with guys like allen gordon or jay secular or ty cobb, i'll be lowell, ivanka, jared, almost lou of people were involved in the crafting of that statement. they want to three. so i said three. that's the lie. i don't think that lie compared to, not just the documentary evidence which supported everything that i had said while i was on the stand, but the corroborating testimony of

the witnesses -- judge engoron is correct. i told the truth. >> let's talk about lying. part of the reason that this case gets under donald trump's skin so much, there are a few reasons, one is that you are a witness in, it and the other one is that he hates tish james. but key to this whole thing is that it pokes a hole, it takes the air out of the myth of donald trump. you told congress about this, he inflates his wealth. he lies about his wealth. basically, engoron, in the summary judgment in september, said that you are a myth. you are built on a lie. you are a fraudulent person. that seems to bother donald trump yet more than the fact that he faces losing his liberty and going to jail. >> i'm not so sure. right now he is not confronted with that aspect, which is what will be starting on march 25th at the criminal trial. these have all been civil so far and he has lost. he continues to lose in each and every one of these cases. my prediction is that he loses

on all 91 counts that were brought against him. >> wow. >> donald is like a donkey, he can only see the carrot in front of his nose. what is the carrot right now in front of his nose? half a billion dollars plus in civil fines between e. jean carroll and now letitia james civil fraud case. when he is going to be confronted in 27 days from now -- 37 days? 37 days from now at the district attorney of new york's case, alvin bragg case, rest assured that will be priority to him because, yes, losing your freedom is probably worse for most people that losing money, i can tell you that from personal experience. but for donald, they are equal. >> reporter: so let's talk about that case because you are involved in that as well. i don't know how much you can tell me without killing me, but we talk about this one as a civil fraud case.

the point i would like to make is that it is much bigger than that. same thing with the other one, we talked about it as the hush money case. but it is actually the issue at hand is -- whether it was election interference. how do you think that case will go? >> i think that's only part of it. and, yes everybody likes to call it the stormy daniels case because it is salacious, the president and the poured star. it's not. it's business fraud as well as campaign finance. i can't go into any of the substance of what is going on in the case for obvious reasons, but i want to protect the integrity of the trial going forward. obviously i'm going to have to deal with blanche and nationally's, there cross- examination. they will do or try to do to me what donald has told them to do, which is attack him, attack his credibility. so far i have testified before seven congressional committees. i've been with the district attorney more than 25 times, including grand jury. i have now been a witness for

several days with the new york attorney general case that is the engoron decision. as anybody turned around and questioned by credibility? that is why i find it foolish when they want to bring that up. they need to work on the documents. they need to work on their case. not to win their case by attacking me. that is not going to work. they need to figure out how to win their own case based upon whatever evidence they think they can provide. >> reporter: one of the arguments in the e. jean carroll, the latest judgment, how much money is going to take to cause donald trump to stop? and this particular case, this was discouragement, this was money that has been determined that he defrauded the taxpayers of new york. what change -- what changes donald trump's behavior? it was $500 million change donald trump's behavior? according to truth social, he just keeps posting the same stuff about how it's all fraud. >> what else s.e.c. have? there is a judgment against him

for over $500 million. not including the 88 point $6 million he is going to 02 e. jean carroll. it is an enormous amount of money that he does not have, i don't care what anybody wants to write in any newspaper, regardless of what their credentials maybe, unless he is going to show you that his bank account has more than a half 1 million dollars -- he doesn't have 400 million cash on hand. maybe what he's doing is he's including rnc money. maybe he's including the pack money, or the various different condominium monies that is sitting in x accounts that do not belong to him. those don't belong to him either. he has a very interesting way of looking at money. the way he looks out it is, if his name is somehow attached to it, it's available to him. it is not. he does not have. it there going to have to start liquidating assets. >> yes. that becomes the issue. he's got assets worth more than

half 1 million dollars. >> he does. >> the cash is the issue. >> i want to say that this is something people are not taking into consideration. when the assets or sold, because donald trump has had them since 1980, and here acquired them for either 40 -- $1 million or parking lots, restaurants, commercial space that he owns here in the city, he acquired those as the developer of the property. he has zero basis in those properties. when he sells them he has to pay taxes on them, just as anybody else. and depending upon his tax bracket, remember, you have city, state and federal tax. that also does not include whether or not this case is now going to be sent to the irs. >> which we believe that to shames has scented both of the federal investigators to look at and the irs. >> not only if it goes to the irs but also the state tax department, new york city department of taxation and finance as well as the state department of taxation and

finance. this number is substantially greater, even then the 500 million that everyone is talking about. >> looking forward to talking to my friend, thank you for being with us again. i suspect we will have more occasions to talk. as always, michael cohen is the former counsel to donald trump, the author of the books revenge, and disloyal, the host of that mea culpa with michael cohen. and political beatdown podcasts. i will continue this conversation with david cay johnston, his piece poses a simple yet persuading question with the former presidents influence over the gop, bound to create more disaster. will republican leaders speak truth to trump? plus, still to come, we will discuss the disaster that the house gop is in how it continues to fail to govern and how it is imperiling not just the business of congress but the whole of american governance and democracy. you're watching velshi on msnbc.

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>> joining me now, david cay johnston, a pulitzer prize- winning journalist, cofounder of d.c. report dot org. the author of the book, the big cheat, how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family. david, i don't know how many times you and i have had a discussion about donald trump over the years. but this is, in some way, all of the surprise and all of the breaking news and all of the stuff is virtually no news to you, there may have been specifics in this case that were news to you, but this has been a threat of your recurring writing about donald trump for decades. >> yes, and you are exactly correct, the specifics and findings though are very important. the judge took 92 pages to meticulously deconstruct the lies, the deception by the trumps, showing -- they tell so many lies that they can keep their story straight.

i had nothing to do with that. here's the document where you certified that you did and here is the emails where you talked about it. all the way through he shows this. he shows that the witnesses that were hired by the trump organization, if they didn't outright lie, and some of them did, they were, as he put, it deceptive. and that is what brought us about, deceiving people. >> to the extent that you have written about this and that craig, who we are talking about, has written about this. use a lot of word to describe the illegal behavior they have engaged in in the past. there is something important about the judge saying it, a court finding fraud, i would think. do you think? in other words, do you think that this affects anybody in any way? does it move a needle? but a court has said donald trump -- this is a house of cards, you have built your business upon fraudulent

business practices. >> reporter: you reference in the intro might -- >> that is the nonprofit news organization that friends and i created where we do two things, we focus on what politicians do, not what they say. and on stories we think are much better funded competitors have not done or have not done right. my latest piece is about, will the republican leadership now begin to talk truth to trump? the way three republican leaders in congress did when they went to tell richard nixon that it is over and he resigned the next day from the presidency. if donald trump continues to hold this sway and these people continue to power in front of him, and that is what's going on here, this is cowardly behavior. then the republican party is going to suffer terribly at the polls next year. it is not good to have a country with one political party, not that will -- what is going to happen.

but many republicans will be wiped out. you see that in the republican committee chairs who have announced that they are not running again. i think this is real test. is there any integrity left in the republican party? or is it completely corrupt organization that fouls down to donald trump? >> but this is intriguing because, again, you are not mildly surprised by the things you've learned about donald trump through the course of this particular case. but there may be people in the republican party, there may be members of congress who have been lifetime conservatives and had nothing to do with an trump who can't say the same thing. in other words, whether they read your book, or soup rags articles, or tim o'brien stuff, or follow this case, now they know something they didn't know. you did, but they don't. and yet, their behavior doesn't change. >> well, i can almost guarantee you that there will be, in the next week, some republican

congress people saying -- when they come back from their vacation, i haven't followed, that i don't know about that. i haven't read the judges decision. trying to avoid this. i mean, i think it will move the needle when donald trump becomes a felon. there's nothing that prevents a villain from serving as the united states. you can vote in a lot of states, but you can be the president. nothing in the constitution will prevent an imprisoned president of the united states from serving in that office. but this case should move the needle on people who they don't -- they don't like biden, they are soft, there's often their support for trump. it should move it along. but i think it is a felony conviction that will matter and the trial in manhattan over the payments that michael cohen was just talking about, that is scheduled to start a month from now. if the supreme court puts the insurrection case back on

track, it will be fascinating to see how justices alito and thomas -- if they don't want to put it back on track will try to explain that in light of the traditional philosophy. that could result in two sets of felony convictions. of course, that is why nikki haley is sitting at the, race to be, they're ready to step in if trump has to be pushed aside. the fundamental problem is that the republican party always saw themselves as the party of law and order, the party of ideas. right, now they don't have either. their traditional skepticism and -- indeed, the great fear of the 1950s, about the kremlin, that is just gone. it is an astonishing change. and we don't know if they are going to stand up to trump or not. >> david, thanks again for joining us and for all you have written about this. david cay johnston is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist, the cofounder of d.c. report.com. the author of several books including, the big cheat, how donald trump fleeced america

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-- -- it wasn't is a vital part of our system of checks and balances, and history of our nation, impeachment proceedings have been initiated 60 times. only 21 of those attempts have resulted in actual impeachment. one senator, three presidents, one of them twice, 15 judges, and to cabinet members, including mayorkas. in 1876, the secretary of war william belknap was impeached for high crimes, including corruption, bribery, and fraud. according to records kept by the library of congress, he ran into the white house just minutes before his impeachment vote, he burst into tears and handed president ulysses s grant's resignation, which did not stop the house later that day. they voted unanimously to send the senate five articles of impeachment, saying he -- disregarded his duty as secretary of war and basically prostituting his high office to his lust for arrive it gain.

since that dramatic episode almost 150 years ago, no cabinet member has been impeached until this week. what for, you ask? not high crimes and misdemeanors, but policy disagreements. house republicans say that mayorkas is mishandling the u.s. mexico border, and they blame him for a surge in migrants trying to cross that border, but you might remember, republicans are the ones actually holding up immigration legislation. republicans are the ones who, for months, demanded that a big national security bill include immigration policy reform, and when democrats against the will of many party progressives, conceded to these border measures, it was republicans in congress who killed the very same bill that they had a heavy hand and writing. not mayorkas. when house republicans try to impeach mayorkas the first time, it failed, because the republican majority is so thin that an absence or expulsion of

one of the precious few made it up that majority can spell success or failure for a simple majority vote, which is what you need for an impeachment. it was a stunning will call. just look, look at speaker mike johnson's reaction when he had to gavel in the final failed vote. they needed just a simple majority, but a few republicans refused to go along with the parties plan initially. it was such a close vote, but some republicans actually refused to believe the outcome. one even claimed that there was a plot, a conspiracy to hide democratic members so that republicans would miscount. >> they had one of their members waiting in the last minute, watching to see our votes, trying to throw us off on the numbers that we had versus numbers they had, so, yeah that was a strategy at play tonight. >> they hit one of their members. now what really happened was much more cinematic, if you ask

me. the texas democratic congressman our green was in the hospital recovering from emergency abdominal surgery, but he knew how important this vote was. congressman green uber to the capitol, went to the attending physician's office at the capitol to make sure his blood pressure and temperature was stable, and they voted from a wheelchair wearing his blue hospital clothes. big fail for johnson and the republicans. so one week later, they decided to try the impeachment again, and this time they succeeded by one vote. and for what? this is where this effort likely ends, because there's no chance that the senate is going to convict mayorkas innate impeachment trial. let me be very very clear about this. secretary mayorkas has committed no high crimes or misdemeanors. you may strenuously disagree with the policy that he is carrying out, but that is not a valid reason to impeach somebody. that is a reason to vote against the president, who appointed them in the election

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republicans of house led by speaker mike johnson are breaking records for ineffectiveness, pettiness, and dysfunction. let's take stock. this week, house republicans filled a rule vote. it will vote supposed to be a straightforward, procedural vote which sets the rules before a bills introduced. the minority party does not even vote on it. it is basically up to the majority, in this case the republicans, to agree on this amongst themselves. but a group of 18 mostly maga republicans tanked the rule vote, and in doing so, set a record. the 118th congress has had the most failed rule votes, the most can't even agree amongst themselves votes of any house in modern history, but that is not all. earlier this month, republicans stalled, negotiated, and renegotiated a national security bill to demand immigration policy provisions. they got concessions from the democrats, concessions that many progressives were not interested in, and then they killed their own vote.

then back in the house, republicans attempted to pass a stand-alone bill to revive eight israel, living out aid to ukraine, taiwan, and humanitarian aid to gaza in the immigration reform that they were so desperate for. that bill failed to. house republicans ran a sham impeachment of the department of homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas, which also failed. they tried again and succeeded a week later. this week, the senate approved a new 95 billion dollar package that includes much-needed aid to ukraine, israel, and taiwan, as well as humanitarian aid to gaza, without the immigration finding that republicans could not agree on but insisted upon in order to get the other things done. and now speaker johnson is stalling that bill again, right as the house punched out for a two week break. joining me now are two former republican congressman, joe walsh, representing the eighth district of illinois. he ran against donald trump in the 2020 election. he shows of the podcast white slaying with joe walsh. charlie -- serve the 15th district of pennsylvania and is

the executive director of a congressional program at the aspen institute. guys, good to see, you atlanta discuss with you but charlotte meter start with you about losing votes and vote counting. people used to make a big deal about how tenacity pelosi never lost a vote, and i always used to say, i don't want that nancy pelosi or if that's nancy pelosi knows how to use a calculator on her phone. mike johnston was so surprised when the mayorkas vote lost, i mean, it is a basic requirement that if you are going to put the boats that are important to you that you are going to count and know that it's going to happen. >> well of course, let's be honest. the house republicans did not have a functional majority. there it was very thin, and you had some rejections members of the house republican conference who like to push back and everything and like to prevent the majority from doing everything, basically turning it over to the democrats. ordinarily, these will votes should pass trust routinely. during my nearly 14 years in congress, i don't recall ever losing a rule vote while in the

majority, and so when you're losing six of these rule votes or less over the past several months, it is pathetic. so i think right now, house republicans just cannot get out of their own way in terms of governance, and so i'm not sure how they get out from under this, but they put themselves in a real predicament, and i think speaker johnson is just going to have to come to the realization that an order to get anything done, he's going to have to talk to team jeffries to help him not only on the final passage of the appropriations bill for the ukraine aid, but on the rules vote. just to have these bills considered. >> and we can have conversations with that, with democrats, saying that we made it to help this guy out because otherwise things are going to get them. i mean joe, you at one point or part of a group of republican members of congress who were a bit disruptive, but they have opened up six rooms to the right of you. >> early, everything that charlie dent just said is true,

but it is way worse than that, and i apologize. i'm a broken record. look, these house republicans reflect the republican party base, and i've said it 1 million times, you have heard 1 million times, my former political party is a cult. donald trump is the cult leader. all house republicans have been focused on since they took control of the house is protecting trump, defending trump, and exacting revenge for trump. that has been, ali, their whole agenda. it is why they impeach mayorkas, as you aptly said, for no legitimate reason. they wanted to impeach biden because trump is demanding it. they are not doing the people's business, they are not enacting legislation. they stuck all of that because they are a cult and donald trump is the leader. mike johnson is not speaker of the house, trump's! >> yeah, good point, because

joe, as a guy who's been in opposition to your own party at certain times, you have engaged, i mean, the reason why you are not engage all the time, is because you have engaged in a good faith conversation that involves policy disagreements. this business of impeaching mayorkas, i mean literally if you asked him people mystery what it's about, 12 of them will say that they couldn't tell you. it is not the space for a policy disagreement, and impeachment is for something else. >> completely, and ali, i would love to come on the show in the past few weeks because i did not like the border bill, but you rightly said that the democrats conceded a lot. but we could have had a, honest open debate about the merits, the policy merits of that vote, that bill. but again, that couldn't even be entertained because trump, the cold leader, demanded that the angle away. when you are a colt like this, you're not about inventing policy, you destroy

institutions. you willingly destroy basic tenets of our democracy. look at the ugly, dangerous precedents on impeachment that republicans set when they did what they did with mayorkas. >> charlie dent, there are a couple of things going on here. republican congress, members are really again, but those who are rumbling again expressing concern that, what are we gonna run on? we are having some failures on the legislative side. i am not one of those guys who measures the success of a congress by how many bills get through because that shouldn't be the contest. but there is an issue of, they cannot get meaningful substantive bills done, and then they sort of or him fisted with stuff that is not meaningful and substantive, like the mayorkas stuff. so there's no discipline nor substantive progress, and there is an election this year. >> no question about, it ali. they spent much of the year just trying to select the leader, 15 rounds to mike mccarthy, then the theorem out. they removed him and then took

a while to get speaker johnson in place. they're struggling just with the basic function of government, whether it was the debt ceiling, the appropriations measures, spending bills, continued resolutions, and then the democratic up on everything. and so they really can't do anything on their own. they need democrats on any substantive policy. they going to need their help again on the ukraine israel foreign aid package. they will need their help, and if they're smart right, now i think what they would, do your some problem solver republicans trying to work with democrats to bring that ball up, and he puts back the border provisions that were agreed to in the senate and then tries to pass it. some of them are trying to get something done, but i think many don't particularly care that they are not getting anything done. some of them just like to blow things up all day. i've often said this many times, any jack asking get kicked out of a barn door, but you need a carpenter to hang one. we need more carpenters right now. >> joe, tell me, because you

have some experience with this, tell me what the distinction is. how is it that you can be -- because these republicans who are being a bit destructive, who are taking down the barn doors, they have a right to their opinions, they were voted in by their constituents, but there is a way to do this without being entirely destructive the whole time. what does this world look like going forward. and the reason i asked this is because i'm specifically point to the back and forth that was going on between speaker mike johnson and his counterparts in the u.s. senate who said, we got to the bill you wanted. we are writing in the bill you want. why utopian our own republican bill that we got democrats to agree to? >> ali, the difference, the fundamental difference is donald trump. the leader of this party, in essence the speaker, we have not had a situation like this. look, this is not charlie dent's republican party, it's

not tea party joe walsh's republican party this once more. no matter where you stand on issues. i am a border hawk, i oppose this border bill, because to me did not go nearly far enough. so that's one issue, bring it up, fight, charlie dent and i, if we were still in congress, we would've thought tooth and nail over the policy in this bill, and then eventually, we would've come together and had a vote upper down on it, same with ukraine. none of that can happen right now because we have this situation where trump, again, broken record, is the leader of the paul party, he is a cold, leader and doesn't matter where you stand on policy. these house republicans have to bend the knee tim, period. >> guys, good to see is always. >> joe -- >> go ahead, charlie. >> i want to say, winded incrementalism dirty word? that border bill, there are many right-of-center policy victories here. why wouldn't they simply pocket

those, take the winds, past this, and then bring them back in the presidential race and say hey, it didn't go far enough because of joe biden, they can make whatever argument they want, but why would they take the gains and that's what's so striking and stunning to me when we have a victory in your hands and walk away from it. >> would you have joe, but you have taken? >> at the end of the, day i would've fought but i probably would've just taking the gains, absolutely. >> guys, always good, thank you for being with us. former republican congressman joe walsh of illinois and former republican congressman charlie dent offensive anya. coming up next, our we've amelia face joining us this morning on the velshi banned book club. you may remember when injured wondered grace lynn from her impassioned plea last year to keep challenged literature on shelves in florida's martin county school districts. she joins us in the velshi banned book club last year in she offered up these wise words. >> every human being is just as

important as any other. our children, who maybe a little different from the other children, we can be recognized by their classmates and honored like they are, and that is only one case that i speak about. we need to know that all human beings are just as important as all the other hand, and we should treat them that way. tha wanna know why people are getting a covid-19 shot? i'm turning the big seven-o and getting back on the apps. ha ha ha. variants are out there... and i have mouths to feed. big show coming up,

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it is day 134 of the war in gaza. approximately 1200 people and israel died in the attacks on october 7th, according to israeli officials, and nearly 29,000 people have been killed in gaza since according to the gaza health ministry.

fighting is escalating in the southern city of khan yunis. israeli special forces say that they've conducted a raid on the nasr hospital there. the raid led to the rest of wanted people, who israel described as terror suspects. at least five patients died when electricity and oxygen supplies were cut. one and a half million people in gaza have been forced to flee to the southern city of rafah on the egyptian border where the u.n. another humanitarian groups have set up refugee camps and tent cities. throughout the war, raffa has been the target of israeli airstrikes, but last weeks, israeli forces announced they would begin a concentrated assault on the city by air and by land despite telling civilians to move from their homes to that city. attacking raffa has been a step too far in the eyes of some countries. canada, australia, new zealand have all called for an immediate cease-fire on thursday as israel was gearing up to go into rafah. and on israel's other northern border with lebanon, the threat of unexpected conflict with

hezbollah has been present since the war in gaza began, but it took on new life this week. israeli rocket fire killed at least seven civilians alongside three hezbollah fighters in southern lebanon. that is according to lebanese media. meanwhile, negotiations to release israeli hostages in exchange for a cease-fire have hit a snag. on friday, president biden told reporters that he has been pressing netanyahu to come to a deal to end the fighting for at least six weeks to get the remaining hostages free. >> i've made the case, and i feel very strongly about it that there has to be a temporary cease-fire to get the prisoners out, to get the hostages out. >> nonetheless, the white house has approved more funding for israel and more weaponry. netanyahu is facing increased internal pressure. families of hostages have been leading rallies in tel aviv to demand the hostage deal all week, and protests to demand new elections are set to take

place across the country tonight. it is almost tonight in tel aviv. joining me now from there is no guitar polsky, she's an independent journalist in israel to decades of covering this conflict. no gas, there is so much going on right now, but for the moment, let's just focus on what is going on in israel. hostage families and others are saying that there is somebody that looks like it might be with the release, a deal that could happen. hostility table on this, the egyptians, the qataris, the americans, europeans are all in on it, but the company that netanyahu does not seem to want to prioritize a deal that gets the hostages out first and deals with hamas leader. >> right, good to see you ali. it's a really muddled situation. it's unclear actually what hamas's position is. they just released a statement about eight hour ago saying that any delays in the deal are all israel's fault, and that may be the case because, incredibly, israeli prime

minister netanyahu refused to send a delegation to the hostage negotiations for his own citizens in cairo this week. that said, what we fear is that behind the scenes, talks are ongoing, especially being pushed for by the united states, and we remember that exactly one week ago, so at the start of this week, they managed to free in an operation in rafah two hostages, a 60 in the seven year old man who had been held since the beginning of the war, and that kind of spurred the feeling among the families and the israelis in general that israel really had to act urgently to make a deal, almost any deal. the families are demanding any deal at all to get their loved ones back. >> so there is some fraying in the so-called war cabinet in israel, which is a coalition not just of netanyahu sort of far-right, people but benny

gantz and others who have joined in in the interest of unity. but i'm starting to hear that benny gantz is saying no deal until certain things have happened. what is the politics in israel right now around this issue? we know where the hostage family stand, we know where netanyahu in the right seem to stand, where is everybody else? >> well the case of benny gantz who you just mentioned and -- these are two former chiefs of staff of the israeli army. they are political opponents of netanyahu, clearly opponents, and they joined the war cabinet a few days after the october 7th attacks not actually for the purposes of unity, but for the purposes of having some adults in the room as war decisions were being made. so right now, there is immense pressure on them because the opposition that seems to be right now the majority of the israeli public, is urging them to leave, saying that all you guys are doing is basically

giving netanyahu a long way to do what he wants. the guy who has been the most clear is actually eisenkot. he has been a chances number two. he lost his son and nephew in december in fighting in gaza, and he is the one who very clearly has said that the number one name, the number one strategic aim has to be to release the hostages. if he feels that there is a deal on the table, and the israeli government is not moving towards it, that he would then leave. that is his red line. it so that is one of the reasons why i am being a little cautious, and we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes. netanyahu clearly, when he speaks in public, he speaking to his base, he is being very i would say rude towards the united states and other israeli allied nations. we're not sure what happened behind the scenes, and we also don't know how much pressure he is facing internally. both from these two people and

from the israeli army, who themselves want there to be a diplomatic deal to free the hostages. >> it is modeled, but a cautious journalist is an important journalist in these difficult times, noga, it's a we preach a arch your words and provide us with your great analysis. noga tarnopolsky as an independent journalist with two decades of experience covering the israeli palestinian conflict. we will be right back. ian conflict. we will be right back. with nurtec odt i can treat and prevent my migraine attacks all in one. don't take if allergicec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects

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judge engoron's decision dropped right at three pm eastern yesterday, one minute later, we heard from donald trump, who took to his truth social platform to promote his upcoming appearance at sneaker con in philly. he followed that up by complaining that the media portrays him as being fat. you can't make this stuff up. another hour of velshi begins right now. and good morning, saturday february the 17th, we begin this morning with donald trump's legal predicament and landmark ruling that could potentially affect his livelihood and affect his already bruised ego. yesterday, the former president was ordered to pay a total for hundred and 53 point $5 million for us companies deceptive financial practices. that judgment includes 354 point $9 million in penalties plus 98 point $6 million o