a very good day from los angeles, welcome everyone to alex witt reports. breaking news this hour, vice president kamala harris in an exclusive new interview today with nbc andrea mitchell's calling out former president trump in the wake of alexei navalny's now confirmed death. >> do you think vladimir putin has been emboldened by what donald trump said about nato and about putin? >> i mean, the idea that the former president all of the united states would say that he, quote, encouraged, encourages a brutal dictator to invade our allies and that the united states of america would

simply stand by and watch. no previous united states president, regardless of their party, has bowed down to a russian dictator before. and now we are seeing an example of something i just believe that the american people would never support. >> joining me now from unit, we are very happy to have nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of msnbc's andrea mitchell reports. welcome to you. we heard quite a bit from the vice president and your interview on a number of issues. what more can you tell us about the interview? >> the vice president was very strong that the u.s. has to aid ukraine. ukraine, as navalny made clear to everyone today, here, has had to retreat from a frontline city. and they need u.s. aid. they need air defenses. he told members of congress, including republicans, who are opposing the u.s. aid, and

those supporting the speaker, who won't even bring into the, floor even though they support u.s. aid to ukraine, he told them that without u.s. air defenses, will have to retreat further. and made all of this, and how critical it, was clear to the vice president in their meetings privately and also when they hit a joint news conference. so i asked about that and about whether all of this, and donald trump's comments about letter may put, and have encouraged putin. and encourage those and congress to oppose the aid. here is what she had to say. >> the reality of it all is that if he is in fact did, we know putin is responsible. and it just speaks to the most recent of many examples of the brutality of putin and his government. that is part of the conversation, then, that i'm heaven with our allies and friends here in munich.

i think all members of congress and all elected leaders would understand that this is a moment where america has the ability to actually demonstrate direction where we stand on issues like this. which is, do we stand with our friends and the face of extreme brutality? or not? and us and we stand with our friends. >> alexei navalny's death, galvanizing this conference here. world leaders and zelenskyy's pick of the conference here today and calling putin a monster, saying he murdered an opposition leader as well as, of, course attacking ukraine. the hope from harris, out of this tragedy, navalny's death, that this will get members of congress to realize that ukraine and vladimir putin, ukraine is so vulnerable and

leather important needs to be opposed. so there is agreement, auto to a lot of people here today. republicans, democrats, a large bipartisan delegation, as well as foreign leaders and other u.s. officials here. all agreeing this is a pivotal moment for the u.s. and for the allies. the ellis headed for. europe has just given 54 billion dollars to ukraine and america has still not put it on the floor of the house of representatives, represent that. alex, it is really a turning point and i'm feeling that putin could succeed. but ukraine, according to zelenskyy, could be at a standstill or have to retreat further in the year ahead, if they do not get this usaid >> but andrea, i'm curious, the sentiment that our european allies, members of nato, or holden right now towards the united states. given our history of leadership throughout the world.

actions speak louder than words. how much is on the line, if we don't deliver on the expectations on things we have promised, or indicated we would do? how much might that change the way -- the viewing of the world of the united states, all of our allies? >> i can tell you what the president and the vice president say. the secretary of state, who was here today, and all the other leaders. they believe that at this moment, if but red sea -- if the u.s. it does not live up to, it will influence not only let important but other leaders. kim jong-un and iran and others around the world. that we're going to state europe tyrion elsewhere for support, we are going to see that middle east later was no longer trust the u.s.. alliances in south korea and japan, against kim jong-un, that the american postwar

umbrella and the nuclear umbrella that we ultimately provide will no longer be there. as powerful as that united states is, this has been a bipartisan commitment from republicans since the era of ronald reagan, george h. w. bush, george w. bush, bill clinton, barack obama. all of that leaders from both parties, and all the presidents from both parties, harry truman and john f. kennedy. you name it. there is going to be a nato 75th anniversary celebrated not and europa coming to washington, d.c., this summer, early anniversary. and by then ukraine could have lost to putin if this aid is not delivered. that is the message. by the way, president biden called zelenskyy today to reassure him that this aid is going to be delivered and to talk to him again, reinforcing what the vice president

delivered in person. it was the vice president's face meeting with zelenskyy. she met him two years ago also, on the eve of the war, they met here two years ago when the war was just days away. u.s. had declassified intelligence for the first time to cancel in ski and the allies this was going to happen, that it had never happen before. and he invited to this after the munich summit. now they're back, two years later, and everything is on the line. >> it is chilling when you think about two years ago and what was on the precipice right there. andrea mitchell, all ways so special to have you on the broadcast. heaven you to overtime on the weekend. thanks so much. those of you who want to see andrea in a day, monday through friday, you can do so at noon, eastern time. mike it looked all was friends with alexei navalny and met with his wife the night before navalny's death. people joined with thoughts on all of this and whether the u.s. has any mains to

investigate navalny's death. but now, let's go to the day's other big story. that being donald trump back in campaign mode. after a stunning judgment and new york civil court. trump was ordered to pay more then $453.5 million. $355 million plus to new york state for a valuing his real estate properties and loan applications. the state attorney general says that 90-degree penalty matches the scale of the trump organization fraud. >> the scale and the scope of donald trump's fraud is staggering. and so too is his ego. and his belief that the roles do not apply to him. today, we are holding donald trump accountable. we are holding him accountable for lying, cheating, and a lack of contrition. and reflecting the rules that all of us must play by.

because there cannot be different roles for different people in this country. and former presidents are no exception. >> we have reporters and analysts and place covering the sweep of this judgment and the other legal matters limit for the former president. we'll go now to vaughn hillyard, and michigan, where donald trump it is expected to speak. tonight vaughn, we heard some pretty strong words from new york a.g. letitia james. how is trump responding to this? >> donald trump is defiant. that should get a prize. we saw that when he was even on the stand for those three and a half hours in november, when he testified in front of the judge, answering the questions from the new york attorney general's office. we've seen him not only polished multiple times over the last 12 hours on his social media account about letitia james, about's judge engoron, and about the decision. but also we have seen donald trump woke outside of his mar-a- lago estate last night and

address the camera. and make it clear he his every intention of appealing but decision out of new york. take a listen. >> we i campaigned on the fact i will get trump, i look at trump, everybody said that. letitia james. i just want to thank you for being here. we'll appeal, we'll be successful, i think. >> the part is for donald trump, a judge and manhattan has narrowed an edge of the penalty and also suspended him from being able to do business and the state of new york for four years. that's where four donald trump there is so much, alex, writing on his political future. and the november general election. that is why he is here later today, just north of detroit and michigan for a campaign event already hundreds are already lining up to get in. because floor donald trump, he doesn't run away from any of these judgments. we have no reason to believe he will not directly address it from the campaign stage tonight. because for donald trump, it is about at least trying to

convince the american electorate to take his side, even if a judge in new york chose not to. alex? >> there is a lot riding on his personal future as. well quickly, look again over your right shoulder. that crowd looks like it's gotten bigger for tonight's rally. and i know how cold it is. we can all look at you and feel how cold it is, my friend. so all these folks are out there, waiting for donald trump, it's a few hours away? >> he is making a stop here in philadelphia. first he started the morning and west palm beach, like i tucked myself, and i can tell you i didn't come prepared for the weather here. the folks in michigan were equipped for this moment. it's going to be at an airport hangar. and i think donald trump, this is part of the recognition, right, just how much is riding on the line in november. and i can tell you a number of folks here who are very much engaged in eight of his legal fights. they know that case, at least from donald trump's side of, it and they are working to fight and to find him on his behalf.

of course, that does not stop the u.s. justice system from work. we've seen that now play out in the e. jean carroll and now here in the new york civil fraud trial and on march 25, that is when donald trump is set to take the stand for his first criminal trial for the alleged hush money payment case, alex. >> listen, you are a good sport. starting in palm beach and then going to waterford township, michigan, in the middle of every. good on you, my friend. thank you. now let's bring in my gal, msnbc legal analyst catherine christian. and philly prosecutor in the trump university case and author of taken down trump, 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by someone who did it successfully. that is tristan snell. welcome to you both. catherine, i'll start with you. what did you make engoron of's decision and that 9% annual interest that's been tacked on and, which by the, way is got accumulating to trump's off?

>> the judge in wanted to pages basically gave a roadmap for the appellate court to not reverse this. for why he came up with the decision. why he couldn't witnesses, why he didn't credit expert witnesses. that word fraud and fraudulent, i stopped counting how many times it was used in this decision by the judge. and what people should understand is donald trump and his codefendants were found liable for falsifying business records. which is a crime in new york state, if you put false entries in your business records with the intent to defraud. the judge found as was done repeatedly. he issued falsified financial statements. it's a crime in new york to issue false financial statements with the intent of the fraud. that was done repeatedly. it is a crime in new york to put false information and insurance applications. and the judge found donald trump was liable for conspiring to do that. so they were so much instances

of fraud, that's why this amount was so high. $355 million plus the hundred million dollars of interest. >> tristan, trump is also now part as serving as an officer order or dr. of any other newer corporation or entity for three years. but bloomberg reports this. and as a press, move justice arthur engoron backed off friday when he issued punishment in the civil fraud case, walking back his earlier ruling and leaf in trump's control over his new york empire largely intact for now. instead, the judge had an eighth session about forced sales will depend on what to appointed monitors learn about individual trump as this is. what does that mean, exactly? >> look, i don't necessarily agree with judge engoron's the solution to wolf's back. i think trump qualifies as the recidivist and repeat offender.

engaging in fraud and illegality, not just in this case, but in the trump university case i worked on, the trump foundation case -- in the manhattan d.a.'s prosecution of trump and organization for tax fraud and initiative competition. we're talking about somebody who is well beyond three strikes. we're talking about somebody, maybe this is the fourth or fourth strike. he is out. however, what i guess judge engoron did here was to pull that back and use it as a bit of a sort of damocles to hand over trump, as a deterrent to hopefully cause him to not do anything else in that way of funny business, which regard to these essex, while this is pending appeal and to make sure that he's complying with the court ordered monitor and all of that restrictions that were put in place regarding these assets that judge engoron

already put into place. >> okay, got. it let me move on to you, catherine, playing some sound from michael cohen. hey was on velshi earlier today. i'll get your thoughts on that. here it is. >> he doesn't have 400 million cash on hand. maybe what he's doing is including rnc money. or he's including that pack money. or he's including that various different condominium money that's sitting in capex accounts, that do not belong to him. those don't belong to him either. he has a very interesting way of looking at money. and the way he looks at it is if his name is somehow attached to that, it's available to him. it is not. and he doesn't have it. they're gonna have to start liquidating assets. >> look, michael cohen's right there. if he doesn't have it, what happens if trump does not or can't not pay this penalty off? >> if he doesn't pay, when the new york attorney general will

start facing assets. donald trump has testified that he has $400 million. michael cohen, who knows him very well, is saying that it's not true. donald trump has to pay his discouragement back, which is give back the ill gotten gains that he and his two sons, the $4 million. hey we'll start have to selling assets, investments, properties. because if he doesn't, then he's going to meet the new york city sheriff. >> so, trust him, with trump as you alluded to, expected to appeal this decision, is there any way he gets this decision overturned? >> i don't think so. never say never. but there's draping elements here and now it might be only two. that question first is is there a fraud? was there fraud? was that finding and correct? i find it highly doubt filled it's going to get overturned.

there is a mountain of evidence here. the next question is, is the award going to remain the same or is it going to be reduced? you do see appeals courts reduce awards but they don't cut them down by 90% usually. they'll cut them jump out maybe 20%. if we say this number, and i'm stuck with a three brothel thing a, for not going to be surprised. but even to this getting what a way on up if we don't. trump he's going to be pain and enormous amount of money here. >> okay. do stay with me, catherine and tristan because you could not stop watching it. fani willis on the stand, thursday. how helpful was her testimony? switching out without there was a conflict of interest. and what happened i disqualified? some answers when we are back in 60 seconds. some answers whe in 60 seconds. when you purchase a pair of bombas socks, tees, or underwear,

you also donate one to someone facing homelessness. one purchased equals one donated. 100 million donations and counting. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, 100 million donations and counting. i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful. back with me now, as promised, catherine christian and tristan snell. catherine, as we pivot to the

evidentially hearing in georgia over whether it district attorney fani willis will be disqualified from the, case i want to play some sound willis from's testimony and get your thoughts on the other side. >> holly offensive when someone lies on you and holly offensive when the try to implicate that you slip with somebody i know you met with him. and i take exception to. it >> after that, you start to dating shortly thereafter? >> that's a lie. contrary to democracy, your honor -- these people are on trial for trying to steal an election in 2020. i'm not on trial no matter how hard you try to put me on trial. >> what did you make of her testimony. here is a very important question. what would happen to the case if she were to be disqualified? >> disqualification of her main disqualification of the office. and the way to georgia does, it if that were to happen, there is a special counsel that would appoint a new prosecutor. which probably would not happen in this case, it will never be

tried. when i first saw district attorney willis step into the court well, i was, like oh my goodness, and then which mystified i said, you know what, she said herself. people who have been watching, remember, this was fulton county, georgia, she is the elected district attorney of fulton county. i'm sure her constituents have seen her in this way before, which is why she got elected. the defense attorneys and this case have, i guess, decided to move away from what they're supposed to be doing, which is to establish there is an actual conflict of interest that district attorney willis has, she has a personal stake and the defendants conviction. that she derives financial benefit that would make it impossible or hard for the defendant to get a fair trial. they have not established that. what they are doing is trying to prove that she and mr. weight are lying about when there are men to learn to start a. that is impossible to. prove they haven't even asked the questions. what is the definition of agreement both ship?

a third party -- i have missed identify people who i thought was a couple, but it turns out they weren't, because i saw them hawking. cycled a witness, an ex friend and an ex employee to say as a hugging and kissing. i don't say this judge disqualifying her and i think the reason why in most, some chose to this, they let the other side on and on and on about nothing because they're going to run against them. so they can't complain they weren't allowed to go on and on about nothing. >> that's a very interesting angle. i had thought of that, thanks for breaking it up. tristan, fani willis's father as well as the former governor of georgia, they were among those who were witnesses and testified on friday. one day after it willis took the stand. i want to play some sound from friday and get your thoughts on that. here it is. >> on a saint my daughter 14 times because i can't, and we have never seen each other more than maybe three hours, because

of, yet, no but not more threats against her and me. >> i've lived with bodyguards for four years, and i didn't like it. but now i'm going to live athletic ads for the rest of my life. >> to their points, their lost in a lot of this are the credible threats everyone under. how helpful for their testimonies in sorting at without with any conflict of interest here? >> i think that governor barnes, we learned a lot right there, he could offer that special prosecutor job. he turned it down. that's what the clippers. about he's saying he turned it down because he didn't want to be under that level of scrutiny and his death threats against him all the time, as fani willis has had. so there you go. it wasn't like she was out to somehow enrich yourself by putting nathan wade in that role.

she turned to nathan wade after other people turned the road. on the idea that this is a conflict of interest is garbage. there is never been any evidence of it and i don't think much out begun to find it. and as i really talk about, and there's a whole chapter in my book about, this this as a classic trump move to smear and counterattack and opposing lawyer. he's been doing this for 50 years, going back to when he was first accused of racial discrimination in his housing units back and the 70s. and he tried to utterly destroy the reputation of the government lawyer and that case, and he ultimately cut off with a slap on the wrist. fani willis is not backing down. to her credit. and this case, i believe, is going to go for it as planned. >> okay, tristan snell, catherine christian, great to see both of you. thanks so. much new information and that what investors found at the state of a massive explosion in virginia. that is next. that is next.

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breaking news. and explosion at a home in virginia overnight killed one firefighter and injured 11 other first responders. two civilians also injured. that explosion sent debris into the street and rock neighboring houses. nbc's priscilla thompson joins us now from sterling, virginia, on the story. what to authorities say close this explosion? >> alex, i just spoke with the fire chief. that is exactly what investigators are working to figure out. he says it could be days if not weeks before we have an answer to that. but what we do know is that around 7:30 pm last night, the occupants of this home called 9- 1-1 complaining of smell and i guess smell. that is west many foreign fighters were out here. when they arrived on scene, they evacuated the occupants and the home and determined there might be a gas lake in an underground propane tank. after about ten minutes of being on side here, that's when the chief tells me this massive

explosion happens. there were at least four firefighters who are trapped under debris. and as you mentioned, 14 people injured and all 11 first, along with the two occupants of the home, who also had minor injuries. of course, sadly, there was a volunteer firefighter who was killed in all of this. that is 45 year old trevor brown. he had been volunteering with the farther payment for six years. the chief tells, me and he survived the wife and three children. certainly a lot of sadness and heartbreak over that today. also residents here are still in shock, based on what they experienced last. not i spoke to one woman, agnes banks, she was sitting at home watching tv when all of this happened. i want to play how she described what happened. >> i heard a sound. it felt like that was maybe the aftershock. i fell out of the sofa.

i heard but the stress and glasses clinking. i ran out of my house, turned around, and i saw all range, big flames, extending as far as i can see, up to the sky. it was like a heavy blizzard. you could not see for. enough smoke. insulation coming down. >> and the focus of the investigation brought now is what caused that gas like to ultimately ignite. this as a massive stain with debris having been front all up and down the street. it is some time for investigators to figure out what happened. they're processing everything. and their message to neighbors here, who are concerned, and the community, is they do not believe there's additional threat. they said this was an isolated incident. alex? >> priscilla, can you quickly have your camera man, if you step out of the, way zoom in on what that devastation is there

behind you. it looks like matchsticks is all that's left. >> yeah, yeah. i'll step out this way and he'll push in here. you can see the police are keeping us away speck. you can see there are some investigators out there. now residents are still being able -- allowed. and they have put up those barricades and, yet, the entire home just demolished. there is a stack of debris you might not be able to see off to the side. matchsticks, every overprescribed. people are in shock this happened in their neighborhood. you know? >> heavens! >> also, another home was knocked off its foundation and the fire chief tells me hey believes that home is likely destroyed as well. >> wow. such devastation and tragedy there in that neighborhood. priscilla, thanks so much, and to your moment as well. former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul on the death of his close friends, alexei navalny, next. alexei navalny, next. ves you 72 hour odor protection

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you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women.

and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are. breaking news. as a family and allies all of alexei navalny are seeking entrance at the glucose his death and a russian prison and where his body is, now navalny's spokesperson confirming his death today, saying the russian opposition leader was murdered. vice president kamala harris telling nbc news today the u.s. will work to verify his cause of death. >> we know putin is

responsible. and it just speaks to the most recent of many examples of that brutality of putin and his government. and that is part of the conversation i'm having with our allies and friends here in munich. >> this comes as russian police, today, arrest hundreds of people attending a memorial for navalny and cities across the country. joining me now is former ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. he's a good friend to us. ambassador, speaking of friends, i want to extend my condolences to you on the death of your close friend. i heard you come on morning joe yesterday, within an hour of finding your friend had died. it was heartbreaking listening to you. have you heard anything reliable about what's happened from your contacts and russia? pockets right, now his family's return for were officials have taken his body. they have been misled about where he is. have you been in contact with any of his allies there? >> i've been encanta put this

family, several hours ago. they don't know the answer to your question yet. this is typical of putin's russia. they never provide this information. the last time they moved him, from one person to the next, from one torture chamber to the, next they were sick days where nobody had any idea where he was. so, no. i don't have an answer to the question. but i want to be clear, to exit with the vice president just sit in the clip he posted. i want to make it clear, mr. putin killed alexei navalny. yes, we need to know that details. we need to know the cause of death. maybe we will, maybe we want. it is putin's russia. but make no mistake, putin killed navalny and as his wife said very courageously and heroically here in munich yesterday, he needs to be held accountable for this crime. >> it is extraordinary, especially because we're showing our viewers that video of him, just the day before, looking healthy in that zoom

interview hated with some sort of legal arraignment. look at him, smiling, children with people in that courtroom, through which he was communicating. look at him. then he drops dead to the next day. can you remind our viewers how important he is, about the lengths he went to to fight the corruption, five to the putin regime, and try to get basic freedoms for russians? because he was poisoned but a nerve agent, nearly died, then and then return from exile to russia where he knew he was going to face harsh imprisonment or be killed. >> that was a great summary, alex, thanks for reminding everybody of that. let me say two things. one, to echo what you just said about this video, i was with his wife thought not before he died. we are here in munich talk about his horrendous circumstances. let's be clear, they got worse and worse. more solitary confinement, less time outside.

this was a strongman. elect site was physically strong, emotionally strong, intellectually vibrant. he used humor, as he just was doing in that video. so something really horrible happened and the 24 hours between that video and his death. that's the first thing. second, this was the most popular opposition leader and putin's russia. and you are right. he tried to poison him once. they filed. it was mid effect out. he recovered here in germany. and that made a conscious decision to go back, knowing full well that he would likely be arrested for a long time. and knowing full well that hate may be killed. and yet he decided to do that because he believed and a better russia. and in a free. russia and he was not going to allow putin to deny him his country. he was a patriot. and i was in touch with him right before he went back. it was a hard ocean, not because of his own well-being.

i want to make that crystal clear. it was mostly because he didn't want to be an absentee father and an absentee husband to his family. that was what hung on him most of all. but he was not going to allow putin to deny him to try and fight for a different kind of russia. and, yes, mr. putin killed this man. but he didn't kill his ideas. and i have no doubt that one day navalny's ideas, ideas about freedom, liberty, democracy, things true to us will outlive putin's ideas. >> can you suggest the kinds of conditions that he would have lived in, and the submarine penal colony where he was imprisoned? i'm assuming that could adversely affect even the hardiest person. >> that's right. i mean, literally two days ago, yulia, his wife, was described to me this new facility. it was like a facility before him, up in the far reaches,

near the north pole. solitary confinement. he was allowed to walk, just another set without a roof. the reading materials, it was a voracious reader, learner, that's the way i remember alexei. he was always confines. another story i heard from another one of his colleagues i saw tonight's geico is they piped-in, and i won white radio, one channel radio. putin's speech is as part of the psychological torture. overtime, it seemed to, may putin took pleasure in seeing this meant being sadistically tortured. but then finally he decided he was too dangerous to mr. putin to be alive, and that's what i think he killed him two days ago. >> that is sick. let me ask you very quickly what can that u.s. to, michael, to punish putin, to punish russia for this? >> i think there are two

concrete. things one, mistrust navalny believed in that liberation of ukraine and was opposed to the russian, putin's and patient, barbaric invasion of ukraine. the u.s. congress right now, the house of representatives are on vacation. but they have blocked assistance to ukraine. that is a gift to fleming putin. let's be crystal clear about. that the more like delay, that more ukrainians are going to be killed by vladimir putin. if you want to honor alex navalny, pass that legislation, get that money, get those weapons to ukrainian warriors. i just met with several ukrainian warriors here in munich and all asked from us is got in the ammunition they need to defend our country against vladimir putin. number two, we, united states and other european countries, or sitting on billions of dollars of putin's money. the russian government money. there is no way we can ever give that bank, that money back. can you imagine an american

politician or a german politician saying, it is time to give flooded a putting back this money? that will never happen. so give that money to ukraine now, to help them to assist them in their fight against putin. those are two very concrete steps that united states could take, the rest of our autocratic as a way to push back on this evil man get killed alexei navalny just two days ago. >> okay, michael mcfaul, my friend, i'm glad to see you and i'm grateful for your conversation just but the heartache i know you're going through. thanks so. much what is in a name? as you much aspect, a lot. next, a new op-ed about the one name president botany to repeat over and over if he wants to win in november. wants to win in november.

new today, the biden campaign taking aim at donald trump him anew and eric incapably grown states. this comes after trump spent the week repeatedly justifying his comments about giving

russia the greenlight to attack nato allies if they didn't pan- african fence. >> every president since truman has been a rock solid supporter of nato. except for donald trump. trump wants to walk away from nato. he's even given putin and russia the greenlight to attack america's allies. >> i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. no president has ever said anything like it. it is shameful. it is. weak it is dangerous. it is un-american. >> john it may now is how it, going for democratic national committee chair and former governor of vermont. good to see you, howard. this new ad, it aligns with this op-ed in the wall street journal and that's were carl rove says to win team biden's only one option and all out attack on mr. trump. but this is interesting contrast, howard, from another recent op-ed in the new york times. frank bruni writes, too much trump toll could create the

impression president putin doesn't have enough accomplishments to put centrist age. i'll ask you who's right, which one do you think is the winning strategy? >> i don't think either one is right. i think taking advice from pop it columnists in any paper is a big mistake. i think biden is on exactly the right track. trump is a danger to the united states. if you were to let our allies go, our economy would be in very serious trouble. if there were a war in europe, which seems to be what his advocating, that would destroy our trip relationships with our most powerful trading partner, which is the eu. american jobs will be. lost this is the guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. so i think this and is important. and i think it makes the right point. >> okay. what about the democrats who are celebrating that big win for tom suozzi? this was and to say special election, flipping the new york house seat formally occupied by george santos.

how bucket as this and what is your biggest take away? >> it is a big deal because what swooshy did, which i thought was very, very smart, and i think biden needs to do the same thing, as use immigration against the republicans. first of, all we do have to make some tightening on the border. it is a major concern to many voters, not just republican voters. and it's a problem. and the presidents going to do something about that. second of, all trump as usual is incredibly irresponsible. and i think that for him to suggest that they don't pass an immigration bill, to make that look bad, this is really, i think it poulin treson. he wants to harm the united states but not controlling immigration, so he can make it a big picture here the presidency. whatever happened to the idea that the president ought to put the united states of america first, instead of himself? >> i asked, because senator chris murphy agrees with you. but then you have progressives like ioc pushing back on that.

so which approach do you think will appeal to the majority of democrats and independents? >> i don't know exactly what it was his position. is i say you've got a quick up saying he's going to -- we shouldn't out republican that republicans. i agree with that. but there is chaos at the border and it needs to be strengthened. out i think the president can do some things within the law that allows him to do that. but for the republicans to demand that immigration restrictions be part of the ukraine israel aid package, and then refused to pass, it that is sickening. days people are sick. we have lost all loyalty to the united states of america, and it's all about politics. so there can be some common ground between reasonable republicans, and there are still rfp left, and javon. and i think we can get a bill passed. we need to get a bill test. i agree, it shouldn't be -- i think the idea of splitting families up, and all that kind of stuff, nobody is talking about eight democrats doing. that we do need to restructure it will bring to look at the

border and control for in a better way. >> yeah, gotta ask you this before i let you go. with donald trump, who you know, is endorsing his daughter in law, lara trump, the co- chair of that national republican committee. you charge the dnc. is lara trump qualified for the job? is this purely nepotism, especially since lara she says she'll give 100% of rnc money to her father and most campaign? >> this is for the killer. so first of, all the situation is different. how was the dnc chair when we didn't have a president. i had a lot more latitude than the rnc chair. has i know nothing about lara trump and of she's saying she'll give all the rnc money, i think it's a clear idea. it makes the chances of winning the senate and the house but at the gross margin back. so she doesn't know what she's doing. i think that's. fine trump doesn't know what he's doing. the more he's in charge of the better, unless he's can charge of the united states, then we all ought to really worry about

what's going on. this is an incompetent human being. >> to which i say buckle up, as that happens, okay. howard dean, thanks so much. the snow that brought us not to say cable has another big idea, teaching kindergartners about communism. we're talking about kids refined result. next. ds refined result. next.

new reaction, a story that

may shock but not surprised. new legislation introduced and the florida hospital corps cates to take about communism, starting in qatar. gotten a parallel bill is moving for and the state senate, meaning it could land on governor desantis's desk by the end of the legislative session in march. this is a state that brought its residents the don't say gay law, a preferred pronouns ban, allows concealed carrot without a permit, and ban dei at public colleges. joining me now is adrienne -- deputy editor of the new republic who's covered the story. adrian, welcome. most children in kindergarten are about five years. out at that age they are learning how to tatarsky was. what is going on there? >> it's pretty crazy to be imagining that kindergartners are gonna have to juggle lessons and abc's. -- it has a pretty good shot at

becoming law very soon. florida republicans have shown time and again that there are willing to use kids education to fulfill this war on woke agenda that they have. this is not us just being worried about some bill that has no shot at becoming law. i think it could become law very soon. the way that this would be creating this new curriculum is through a communism education task force with members handpicked by governor ron desantis, which is a terrifying prospect. and this task force would be the one to essentially suggest how kids and age great should be receiving these history lessons. >> donald trump short a campaign proposal to poor communists and marxist from entering the country. why the focus on communism? is it really coat for something else, do you think? and if so what?

>> i mean, i think communist is just a term that all republicans use for people on the left who they don't like. i don't think this is a genuine effort to teach the history of communism. i think what concerns me more about this bill, in particular, is in most schools in america we are still struggling to get kids to learn how to read. and in florida, specifically, it has one of the worst literacy right in the country. it just feels like a very mismatched sense of priority right now. that given everything going on, this is what republicans are worried about. >> can i ask you really quickly for an answer on the parent of a florida first grader who recently decided -- had to set up commission slips his daughter could listen to have read aloud a book, quote, threatened by an african american. come on! >> that's insane.

i think we've seen a lot of really terrifying changes to education curriculum in florida. and that's what concerns me most about this bill. desantis is the one who's appointing the people on this test for us. desantis, as you mentioned, is the one who signed i don't say gay. and this is -- kate and earlier grace, he expanded it. it applies to all kits in carry through 12 public schools. now no discussion of classroom -- sort, no discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity. we saw that reflection of that slavery curriculum, as i'm sure all your viewers remember. kids are now for cleric to laurent people who were enslaved benefited from being enslaved, which is insane. sorry, go ahead. >> unfortunately, we're out of time. the knicks shut will start in two seconds. thanks for being