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welcome back to the weekend, everyone. donald trump's business empire is facing its biggest test ever. hundreds of millions of dollars and fines, and it's an amount that's actually growing every single day. on friday, a new york judge will have had the trump organization must pay more than

400 and $50 million. that number includes interest, which continues to accrue. the reason? it's because he inflated his wealth for financial game. trump is also bad for money has business in new york for three years. with this ruling, it seems as though the emperor has no clothes. let's look ahead to the future of his empire, in the wake of these fines, and whether it can survive. joining us new york times investigative reporter suzanne craig. >> good morning, susan. i would like to start with you on a mekhi hagerman tweets. it twig up noted, odd friday, trump is facing a financial tsunami. there were penalties for the trump org and the criminal tax fraud case followed by the e. jean carroll judgments, now followed by and grand. upcoming our potential january six related lawsuits. this is trump's new reality, in the midst of this he's raising

money and running a race for the presidency. what are you finding and your reporting that the trump organization, trump, those around him, are trying to do to get the resources and place? these are real numbers he has to pay out. this is what he has to pay out. you've also got potential judgments in the january six and other cases to come. what are you seeing them do now to prepare for this tsunami of judgments? >> right. this is real, this is, that he can have some big pay, a couple years down the road, he has to produce it in a matter of weeks. either the cash, or a bond. the new york times has reported yesterday that he is, in fact, looking for a bonds, and the resources to get that together. it's going to be difficult for him to post that bond. as anyone will do it, don't know the risk they're taking on. right now, they're trying to get that into place as a starting point.

>> i think this is the new york times reporting. i'm sorry, i want to make sure we get the second. you were referencing, sue, between the defamation case judgment, and the billions he owes after justice ruling, mr. trump might run out of cash. that doesn't we have run out of money, he can sell his properties, start a new mortgage. i wonder if that's why he's selling sneakers and perfume. >> that will bring in something, the sneakers aren't going to quite get him there, yesterday he was selling sneakers that sneaker con. also, perfumes, what's a called? success 47. >> victory. >> his old perfume with success. now it's victory 47. he's got to have, even if he wouldn't do a cash, he has to have something that's liquid. this has to be posted within a matter of weeks. it looks like he's going out now. it's an appeal bond.

which is he has to get, it it's a financial institution, to put up a bond. it will be 100 and 20% of the value. the other thing to remember on this, and all the judgments he's faced, whatever number you hear, that is going up every day. that is a huge interest rate. when the judge put down his decision on friday, it's 9%, unless otherwise stated. a lot of it could be 9%, i haven't looked to see if there are exceptions. that's a huge interest right. >> simone, there were viewers, who just like we have a countdown clock to a big event, they won a clock in the middle of the screen that shows you all that interest accruing. >> i think we need to actually get the clock, but hopefully we can work on that ourselves. alicia raised the new york times reporting, and read the part, that was a question that i had. how is donald trump still able to get mortgages, and work with banks? our colleague, lisa rubin, has noted that since the judges

decision, people have assumed that trump can't borrow from any major banks. that is not the case according to a finance friend of hers. how is this able to continue to happen? >> an appeals point is a different animal than the -- he won't be able to go to banks and get a loan. while he was president, and since he left office, i think a lot of people, when they think of donald trump's banking relationships, think of deutsche bank. deutsche bank has done so much london with him. what a lot of people don't know is that in recent years, deutsche bank has exit at the scene. he has gone to a little known lender and san diego called axios bank. the person that runs this bank happens to be republican. he says for him it wasn't about politics, it was a financial decision, why he decided to lend to donald trump. but donald trump has been moving his banking out of the mainstream already. i don't see him getting loans.

in fact, another thing that was not notice, i think during his presidency, there was so much going on. donald trump has been shrinking his financial -- he sold well- known post office hotel that he have the operating, in washington. he sold the operating golf course in new york. he is also been quietly selling condominiums around new york, and buildings he owned. he sold a house he owned in l.a.. he has been, i don't know, stockpiling the cash. he has been selling down. we don't know how much cash she has on hand. he says it's last year, close to 400 million. i'm always careful when i talk about that cash on hand. it could be 200, 300, the next day, it could be zero, if he has to make a payment on something. we really don't have a lot of visibility in this cash position, but we know he has been selling assets that should have raise cash. now he's selling sneakers.

he may have a little more cash than he did. >> that is one part of the ruling, right? there's also the reality of him being barred from doing business in new york for the next three years. when i interviewed michael, cohen we have one of the first responses from michael cohen right after this news broke. he said to me i'm not sure who will run the business. who it is that they would put the business into the hands of. i wonder if you have any reporting on who there is in terms of a line of succession who could potentially take this -- we're talking with michael cohen in a few minutes. >> i don't think there. as this will be on autopilot, their -- >> house of business on autopilot? >> it has been for a while. the shrinking already. but they enter, and remember when donald trump first got elected, the kids were talking about doing a new brand of hotels, they weren't going to do international deals. they at least had some growth plan. this thing has been in shrinkage mode since he got into the white house.

you're going to now continue to see that because he has got to meet these payments. they are big. we're not going to see any more growth. he is got managers at the golf course, they are the main things that they're running. it's not like they got a complicated business. he's got golf courses in a few office towers. those office towers are also golf courses. golfing is not a growth proposition in the office towers. they're really coming out of covid, people have not come back to the office. it's a problematic area. you need managers for that. you don't need a visionary at the top when you're shrinking your business down. >> speaking of that -- go ahead, michael. >> the idea of shrinking the business down, i think that's an important aspect of this. i've watched you cover trump for a while now. with incredibly insightful reporting, and i'm curious, and i'm not asking you to play psychologists on the sunday

morning, but -- >> go ahead. >> there is, from my experience having worked with donald trump, and yours and covering him, there is a psychology here that is at work with him. this shrinking down of his brand, of his identity, tied to those assets that you mentioned, how do you see that sort of his behavior going forward? does he lash out more? does he become more defiant? what should we be looking for as a consequence of these judgments? the pressures of running for president? and the fact that the gold sneakers probably ain't going to bring him, you know, a little bit of change. >> i think for donald trump, the pressure of having all of these different cases that he has to deal with every day is incredibly difficult. coming back to the business stuff that i cover, i think

this has got to be really hard on him. when you think, his identity, it is so tied up in this. i think about not just in the business. but the idea that he is a millionaire. , since he's been in his twenties, he has been publicly lying about his net worth. i think about it. i think about that lie is the original lie. he came into manhattan in the 70s, bankrolled by his father, and started giving interviews to newspapers, new york times, tv, lying about his wealth. sort of appropriating his father's wealth and saying it was his. he has been doing that for decades. this is at the heart of him. i don't even think he knows the difference between what his worth and what he says he's worth. i think this is really a devastating thing for him on that level. it's devastating because it's real. he has to put up that bond, put up that money within so many days, or, the state of new york will come in and start padlock

in trump tower. that's real for him. >> what suzanne just said, i hope people at home were listening intently. donald trump has been in his twenties, he's been lying about his net worth. i used to work at the white house, the federal government, donald trump is a national security risk, at this point, just because of this, because of people who are cash strapped, if you, well who have lots of financial issues, they're often fly to not able to receive security clearances because of how that could potentially be manipulated. suzanne, i don't know if people are really making that connection. this is about his identity, who he has propped himself up to be for so many years. this is not happening in a vacuum. it is directly connected to the campaign he is running. >> yeah, no, once you, and now

he's looking at a potential, he's going to a criminal trial soon. if he's convicted, there are additional consequences about what you can, do how you can do business. this is stacking up. this money is not hypothetical. it's a real. he'll have to pay, it or come up with the bonds very quickly. they're scrambling up in trump tower trying to figure out how to deal with us. >> the money is real. y'all better read everything susanne craig writes because she has the tee. suzanne craig, thank you very much for kicking us off this hour. coming up, folks, michael cohen joins us with his reactions to his old boss is extremely expensive day in court, and how he has something to, say all. you're watching the weekend on msnbc. watching the weekend on msnbc. symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis.

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>> manhattan district attorney is moving full speed ahead in a case against donald trump. michael cohen confirmed with me on friday that he met with prosecutors from the d.a.'s office for more than six hours this week. the case is set to begin on march 25th, and will be trump's first criminal trial to get underway. joining us now, former personal attorney to donald trump, michael cohen. he is the host of the analytical beatdown podcast, and author of revenge, the donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics. >> that is the title right there, honey.

michael cohen, it's so good to see you. okay. you had a long meeting with the prosecutors. what did you discuss? without compromising the upcoming trial, why was the meeting to, long what we're talking about? >> obviously, there is a lot of review this going into this. i think we've been talking more about trump's newest venture. of course, those hideous looking sneakers that he is top aide in order to raise money. you know, at about 4:00 this morning, i came up with an entire -- i decided the next chapter of my life, i want to be like minutemen, i want to go into advertising. donald trump actually believes he's the combination of michael jordan, kanye, off-white. all smashed into one. grifter, right? just see here, from me first, the hair fillings. i'm telling you, it's the right day before it. >> i'm telling you, this is how

he made a lot of his money. the merchandizing, michael, is not a surprise. we know he is cash-strapped. we know that's part of the issue. he can sell out assets and properties. how much money can he actually make merchandise in his name? give us a sense. >> if you look to see what kanye has that, i mean, he made billions. michael jordan, made billions of dollars. i guess somebody impressed upon trump that he too could make billions of dollars with, you know, these sneakers. and, fact i'll tell you something, he should actually go with something more then he uses. we all know trump doesn't play basketball, it shouldn't be in sneakers. more like adult diapers or something. he should be and that sort of severe, as opposed to hawking seekers. you know, there is a second point that goes to this as well. we should take this seriously. you have the head of one of our two major parties that is financially cash strapped.

>> simone is making this point. >> we have to be very careful about him as a potential presidents, because he is for sale. he needs to make sure how he's going to raise 500 plus million dollars over a short period of time. >> the saudis, the russians, yes. the saudis, the russians, like, he is open to the highest bidder at this point because the tap keeps moving. >> he's compromised, yes. >> let's stick with that for a little bit. how does that then play itself out in this campaign? we see the setup play with the rnc, taking control of that, largely, for the purposes of using those resources to begin to offset some of that. whether he's in the white house or not, i think the lesson that i've learned at least, from what we've saw in mar-a-lago, is that donald trump will have,

he may not have the physical papers he can sell, but he knows stuff that, from his time in the white house, he still, to some degree, is, as a former president, getting information that a president, a former president would get. how do you see him utilizing these assets? that's what they are for him. to sort of get to that and game of making these payments, and reestablishing his march towards regaining those billions. you know, the stickers notwithstanding. >> anyway that mike, you and i have talked about this online and offline, and i've said that one of the biggest fears that i have, and i do believe that donald trump will be held accountable on all 91 charges that have been brought against him in the four criminal indictments, one of the biggest fears i have about having donald trump behind bars is that he would sell for a

book of stamps. he doesn't care about america. i say this not to be hyperbolic, i say this as fact. knowing him for as long as i have known him, he will sell that information to anyone because he does not care about anyone or anything other than himself. it's simple. >> i mean, it is, it is so shocking to me that donald trump has just been zero consequences up until this year, or late last year this year. the hush money, as we've talked, about is getting started. obviously he has this judgment in the civil case from friday, what's, the hush money case, for people who might not remember, is about stormy daniels, the payment she received, you are intimately involved in that. it is what you ended up going to jail for. your testimony, before congress, is the reason that

this trial exists, because of something you said in a testimony before congress. what is a win for stormy daniels in this case? >> this is nothing to do with stormy daniels. it's salacious, right? it's the president and the porn star, it's not. it's campaign finance violations, business record fraud. that's really what the case is about. it doesn't have to do -- stormy is actually at the center of what the transaction was about, but it's not about stormy daniels. it's about, again, campaign fraud finances while his business record fraud. so far, symone, we have seen, right now, there are four criminal cases. there were two civil cases. the two civil cases, donald has been held accountable. no different from anybody else. that's why i constantly predict that he will be held accountable on all of the criminal cases as well. how many times have you heard

this statement, that the wheels of justice turn slowly? they ultimately come full circle. for donald trump, it's now coming full circle. slower than we would like, because of his delay tactics, but nevertheless, it comes full circle. >> as the legal fees are mounting, there is concern, specifically in this case, from nikki haley, about donald trump using the rnc as his personal piggy bank. she doesn't want the rnc to become trump's legal defense fund. is there any way, especially with the stolen order, that that is -- >> no. he now has his insider, his family member that is going to be controlling the purse strings. if i was a donor, i would be very reluctant to send an eight dollar. i find it odd that the people who have the least or supporting the guy who has the most. rest assured, if you need to go to florida, donald trump will not put you up in his 7:57, even if there's an open seat.

he doesn't care. it's all a gigantic grift. we know it. it's so blatantly obvious. we see it every single day what he is doing. yet, there is still that maga supporting group, the same folks that went out and put $400, you know, those hideous looking sneakers. there are still willing to pony up money for him. >> poor michael steele, he really wanted a seat on that plane. >> yes. wearing the sneakers. i think that would be -- >> nothing mike shows that your racist, sexist, misogynists, seen a phonebook, homophobic, anti-summit, then a hair felon. >> that's a mouthful. michael, let's pull back the lines a little bit. the thread that i took away from the judges ruling really touched on a key element.

it was ferocity. when he looked at your testimony, he called it out, and talk to us a little bit about how you saw that representation by the judge, and comparing it to what he heard about donald trump jr., eric trump. even donald trump himself, relevant to your testimony, my sense was, it really reinforce this decision in many ways, what we had to say to that, judge despite the fact that, as a judge noted, you were, you know, a felon, but you still brought the truth. >> one of the things that i wish the judge would have, and i thanked judge engoron, from the bottom of my heart, for putting in that additional line, because, remember, i have testified now before seven congressional committees. the mueller team, the manhattan district attorney, the determining general, been on the ground, jury i've been to trial for that case. and soon to be on the witness

stand for the manhattan d.a. case. i've continuously told the same story, the story is a truthful story. all of my information is predicated on the documentary evidence and testimony from others. i do appreciate. what i wish they would talk about is what my fellow, what's my perjury count was. it was the number of times that i claimed to have spoken to donald trump about the failed trump tower mascot real estate project. donald wanted three, because it's a diminished number. the true number was ten. i don't think anybody should say, well, that's enough in order to not hold donald trump accountable for his dirty deeds, for his illegal behavior. >> michael cohen, always bringing it. we appreciate you, my friend. thanks for coming on. coming up, folks we have a pair of experts standing by to discuss what we've just, heard, and what's next in donald trump's other legal headaches. you're watching the weekends,

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this election is about who shares your values.

talk to your doctor let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values.

>> welcome back to the weekend. there is a lot to digest mark conversation with michael cohen, as usual, with us now is michaels -- he is a former january six investigator. also with, us msnbc legal analyst, catherine fischer. she is a former district attorney in manhattan. welcome to all of you. >> catherine, i want to start with you. i understand the civil fraud trial, the criminal case, they're very different cases. there are, though, some overlapping elements, including, for example, michael cohen, as a witness, draw a line for me from one case to the other. >> michael cohen is a material witness in the manhattan d.a.'s office. he is the one who is going to say that he didn't receive legal fees, he received reimbursement from payoffs to,

to stormy daniels, he is the main witness. it is good for the manhattan d.a. that they -- can tell the truth. it's a very different case because it's a criminal case. they have proved guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. there were 12 jurors, not a judge. they're also our defense attorneys who are very skilled. this is what they do. they cross examine people. if they, the jury, may not be as kind to michael cohen as the judge in the civil case, but, the manhattan d.a.'s office has cooperation for every word coming out of michael cohen's mouth. >> you better believe it. >> you definitely better believe that. i wonder if you all, marcus, what you thought about the assertion that this isn't a case about stormy daniels. this is a case about fraud and payments, and election. i thought, maybe, there could have been messaging that came out of his meeting with the prosecutors from this past

week. because, one could argue you make the case about systemic daniels, the center of this case. which is a very serious case. people may feel it doesn't rise to the level as the other cases, the georgia case, or jack smith's case. what did you make of that? >> it's accountability, a theme going back to the theme of all of these trump investigations. i think it's just carrying through business records, causing this case plane out. mr. cohen mentioned it, now about accountability. i found that to be one of the hearts of the former president trump, using his assets to inflate his worth. >> he's lying. >> he's lying, exactly. and of course he couldn't take accountability for his actions. that is a consistency were seen throughout these investigations. it's something i expect in the manhattan jury as well.

>> you have the e. jean carroll case, $500 has paid another 83 point $3. the civil fraud's case is now 453 million, and counting, because of the interest that is accruing at the same time. donald trump asked to put up bonds. >> that's a lot of money. >> it's a lot of money. and it couldn't be owned by a better person. the reality of it is, how does the bonding process impact here, it says a lot when you put that bond in place, right? he's not going to necessarily lay out the cash. how do you see this playing out in terms of people getting the money that they are owed? >> as you said, it's bought. there's two separate cases. the 83 million, 5 million, it'll be the federal court. this 450 million was elite in the state supreme. people will be able to get, bond insurance company, 20%.

people will get paid. i think jean carroll's attorney said that we're getting paid, because regular folk, when they have a judgment against, them they get their bank account attached. any property. the new york city sheriff for the civil case, it's responsible for doing that. they doesn't think voluntarily that they will be a government coming after them to see his assets. >> and the background of all of this, marcus we are still waiting for the supreme court to decide whether or not they're going to take up this question of presidential immunity. i want to read you this from the new yorker, trump's wild pursuit of presidential immunity. it's quite possible there are four or more justices to hear a case, why they have doubts about the d.c. court of appeals, defining the ex presidential immunity, who simply think that the issue is so important that they can only settle the matter definitively.

your thoughts, marcus, on where this is headed? >> i think that's a great point. this is an important question for our country moving forward to determine, quote unquote, our presidential duties. i suspect the court will take this question up. this is the more important question about speed, about the trial court level, and this state, to find for justices to take up this matter, but there has to be a likelihood that five justices will return in the lower court decision, that the former president will -- i think those last two elements, with the special counsel, away against a, although i would not be surprised -- i did want to have irreparable harm argument. i found this to be a stretch. the former president is saying his first amendment rights would be violated if he's forced to go to trial because he would be able to go up on the campaign trail of reaching millions of voters. i don't understand, that because we've seen the former president in trials, investigations the past, year and that has not stopped him

from reaching out to his voters. to make this argument that he's behind his first amendment, i found that to be a stretch. it shows the uphill battle of what he's facing. >> what is almost equally wild to me, as you will know, marcus, is that he was not only arguing with his first amendment rights has been violated, but the first amendment rights of voters has been violated. given that we are talking about a case of election interference, that's really something. marcus, catherine, you're sticking around because we want to discuss republicans baseless proceedings against president biden, and why may have just gone up in smoke. this is the weekend on msnbc. s for stubborn odors. you'll need vinegar, a large salad bowl and... oh, hi! have you tried new tide fabric rinse? it works after your detergent to fight deep odors 3 times better than detergent alone. i love that. try new tide fabric rinse.

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these allegations were at the heart. the gop's case against biden. a 37-page indictment alleges that he lied to the bureau about a biden and the deals with an energy company. while marcus and catherine are back with us to discuss this madness. >> as we were chatting in the break, marcus, you said something. i asked, you know, the republican members of congress, their document they said was the thing that told all of us the bad information, they had the tee. it was classified, they made members view it, and come to find out, he lied about that document. you said something about a 10:23. you explain to folks why they view the document, if it was all a lie, they would have to find it out. >> a 10:23 statement, right? so the statements of the fbi, to fill up the statements as, well which was a statement of what they just said. since the fbi didn't open up an investigation based upon this affidavit, i believe that was

probably the arrangement that the department of justice made of congress for members, to look at this documents. i think that this is -- >> then they open an impeachment investigation. >> the new open an impeachment. i think the key is cooperating evidence. the investigators could've done this type of, work whether doj on january six committee, you can't just rely on what a witness said. you have to cooperate. i think that goes back to judge and lauren talking about michael cohen. all lawyers that do this work look for other evidence. documentary evidence, or another witness saying something, to cooperate facts that remain, or questions that remain to them. i didn't find it, but house republicans proceeded, in large part, in the impeachment -- >> and alicia, that is the heart of this, right? you get the witnesses to say something, and then the fbi cooperates. i don't know at what point the republicans realize that they were basically pilfering and laying out lies.

they were playing this game. >> that's right. you have congressman raskin say that it is time for this to all be done. it is why you have president biden himself weighing in on it. take a listen. >> he is lined, and it has been and outrageous from the beginning. >> this is what i don't understand, kathryn. how, given everything that mark is just laid out, was this allowed to go on for this long, with this -- it was easily, his credibility, it was easily called into question. >> while it's a big faux pas. it's, this is -- >> on whose part? >> clearly, the republicans and congress who are lying on the star witness without having, you know, the facts as marcus said were cooperated. when you have, and this is been a confidential source, since 2010. he has provided reliable information. it actually, it'll call into question if they relied on him

and other investigations, and people have been convicted, those defense attorneys are all now getting ready to file motions, because if he was found to be line on such a big thing now, maybe he lied all of the time. the fbi said he was reliable. you can trust him. so it's a big deal when you have a confidential informant to you have found it has been line to you. >> i do think we should put up what chairman comer of the house oversight committee said. he says that, to be clear, when someone says they want to be clear, they stand a business. the impeachment inquiry does not rely on the ftc 10:23. it's based on a large pocket of evidence, including bank records a witness testimony, revealing that joe biden knew of and participated in his family's business dealings. folks, maybe i'm wrong, but we have yet to see any of the evidence. right? where is the evidence? where? where is the evidence? >> how quite, symone, that you

expect to see evidence. >> we've got a whole research packet, i don't see the evidence. >> can i make sure that we get to something, there is so much legal news, there was a story that i think ordinarily, friends, we'd have been a story we'd lead our show with, if not for the fact that there was such a deluge of news. that is that there is a lawsuit accusing the nra of lavish misspent dane. it is now heading to a jury. can you talk me through this? >> the jury is. out the new york state attorney general has jurisdiction for regulating not-for-profits. the nra was actually charted in new york state. she brought a lawsuit, letitia james, against them, for basically financial misconduct. the secretary counsel, for using the money in this not-for- profit for their personal gain. jets. private jets. yachts. basically financial mismanagement. this is the job of the a.g. to ferret out.

she has. obviously the jury will determine that. she is seeking that they pay back money, that they violated this duty to the organization itself, and the board of directors. this is a big deal. like you said, ordinarily, it would be the front page, but trump, trump, trump has been all over. if she wins this case, if the a.g. wins this case, they will be dissolved, as an organization, as we know it. >> what does that mean next for them? >> we know that he has already resigned, so than they have to rebuild. they have to clean house if they decide. then they'll get executives who aren't going to be running the funds of this not-for-profit for their own purposes. >> to follow up on that point, hasn't the nra been trying to transition their assets out of new york, to texas, to other parts of the country? i recall reading a number of stories in that particular guard. does that have an impact on what may happen if they lose here? >> they could decide that we're

starting from scratch, we're going to go to texas and get the nra of texas. if they lose the city, they will be result. >> marcus childress. catherine christian. as always, thank you very much. we have a question for the audience. do you think i look like this guy? when we get back, i'll explain why one of fox's contributors got me confused with him, and i said, i said, i little old me should be prosecuted. this is the weekend. be prosec this is the weekend. with a rapid dry core that locks in your heaviest gush quickly for up to zero leaks. always discreet- the protection we deserve! i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic.

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>> friends, i know it is early, but i want you to take a look at a couple of images. do you see the resemblance between these two men? somehow, fox contributor, laurie flake, or he got the two confused. then our co-host, michael steele, for the infamous steele

dossier combined not by michael steele, but by former british intelligence officer, christopher steele. amazing on its face, michael, but i am told, this is not the first time this is happened to you. >> no, no, no. let me just set the record straight. >> do we have the sound? >> right here. steel bond, let's do it. i am that british intelligence officer. here is the thing. it happened a lot. doing this whole episode with the steele dossier, from the new york times and washington post, everybody, everybody, they had me here as this secret agent, spy figure, writing this stuff. it was always a museum to me, that for all the photo ops, you will see, yeah, except for not even the white shirt, i don't even -- >> let's play the sound because he not only accused you of doing that, he said he should go to jail.

play the sound. >> the source lied to the fbi like that, i'd have no problem with prosecuting that person. but then why hasn't michael steele, the author of the steele dossier, been prosecuted? this, again, is the two sides of justice. >> the 23rd press secretary, white house press secretary, ladies and gentlemen. >> you know me. you know me. my hair ain't white because i ain't got none. come on. stop it. >> i have a question, michael steele. is it a slip of the tongue? is that bad copy editing? or are there really people who believe that you are the steel of the steele dossier? >> there are people who actually believe that, and probably do, now. i mean, it was amazing. whether it was my social media or whatever, it was amazing the responses that people, then i would say, it's not, be oh, your line. >> what do they need to do?

have >> you seen a picture of christopher steele. >> i'm telling you, it ate me, the side by side is all we need for the rest of this. go ahead, simone. >> it goes to show the ridiculousness of it all. the fact that, i mean, folks are mad about the fbi, republicans, who are on the trump train, like, already there say, if we're going to prosecute the guy who lied about hunter biden and the presidents, we need to prosecute michael steele. >> here's the thing, even just to stay where they were, where they can never grapple with the facts in front of them. they have to point the finger at something else. it's always this what about. i know i'm pointing at you, michael. it says what about isn't that so wild to me. >> look, you know, it says a lot about the names. it's a strong, and what can i say. steele is a strong in. the reality of it is, it also

speaks to how people are driven by a narrative that they don't take time to step back and get the facts straight. and understand exactly what they're saying. he said it twice, you know, and that conversation, it wasn't like he said it once and corrected himself. >> if he wants to put you in jail. maybe that's the thing. maybe republicans are bad because you are independent. you are thinking. you're still a republican, but you dealt with trump. you are black republican at that. >> i just say blond, bondsteel. >> we don't want that. >> well in your custom rule, michael steele, that towards a strong, name one of the two. >> he has these robes, alicia. not these rubs. >> we're having too much fun. i've been told we have to go. coming up velshi at the top of the hour, congressman jamie raskin is going to join ali to discuss trump's rough week and

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