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what's going on. i couldn't see what's happening. then i heard something about the prosecuting michael steele, i meant -- i'm here for you. i don't know what you did but i believe a new. >> that's a real friend right there. >> ali has been my friend and he will be my key character witness. >> that's right, i will absolutely be there for you. i'm glad that i got here in time i was as you can see i was at a rave all night. if you ever need tips on that kind of thing, let me now. >> have a great show, ali. >> i'm done. >> well i'll try to keep our job, spy. >> velshi starts now. good morning, it's sunday, february 18th. i'm ali velshi. it was the best of times it was the worst of times. that pretty much sums up donald trump's 2024 so far. he began the year on a high note with a huge and historic victory, the iowa caucuses, then the new hampshire primary,

cementing's front runner status and offering further proof that he is untouchable within the republican party. in addition to that, recent polling trends of shown him pulling ahead of president biden in a hypothetical head to head matchups. we will talk about those later in the show. but for a presidential candidate he really can't start an election year in a better position. however, trump is not a normal candidate. we're only 49 days into the new year and the choice in preach multiple e indicted ex president has already been found liable for defamation and fraud in addition to being held liable for sexual abuse last year. as a result of those cases, he has been fined about half a billion dollars in civil penalties and interest. you'd think that it can't get any worse, but for donald trump it just might. in the same week the judge arthur engoron penalized him $355 million in plus interest in the civil fraud case, another judge in new york confirmed that trump's first

criminal trial can proceed as planned, beginning march 25th. with a federal election interference case in d.c. still indefinitely postponed that means that the man had eaten -- the first prosecutor in history to indict a former president will likely become the first prosecutor in history to try a former president in a court of law. this is the case that is often referred to as the hush money case, which some of dismissed as being the weakest or at least compelling on the four criminal cases the trump is facing. it's far more complex than that. if you recall, this case involves the payment made to adult film actress stormy daniels, with whom trump's alleged to have written a fair. paying someone to keep quiet about an affair is not a crime, unless you're doing it to keep -- speaking about it so that voters don't find out, and then concealing that you did that in the in that case. trump is been charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records for trying to conceal

that payoff, as bragged argues paying someone off to not talk about something is very different from paying off someone days before an election to prevent a potential scandal for but bulldog and potentially sinking your presidential campaign. in other words, it's a form of election interference. in an interview, bragg said quote, the case, the core of it is not money for sex. we would see it's about conspiring to erupt a -- lying in new york business records to cover it up. but that's the heart of the case, and quote. bragg seems to understand that trump's other cases have overshadowed his so-called hush money case, because it seems a bit tired jury and salacious on the surface. but he contends that there is a link between his case and the other internal election interference cases that should not be dismissed. a few months ago they e. jean carroll and the civil fraud cases were also flying under the radar, but the monster judgments handed down in those cases won by a jury, won by a

judge, could have long term consequences for trump's personal, professional, and political life. the outcome of bragg's case could add to that, and it won't be the end. the hush money trial is expected to last about six weeks until about mid may, and then it's possible that another one of trump's criminal cases will be ready to proceed to trial as well. joining me now is that democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. he said served as the -- second impeachment of donald trump. it is also a member of the january six committee, he's the ranking member of the oversight and accountability committee, congressman raskin, thank you for being with us today. >> delighted to be with you. >> give me some perspective on this. obviously there are lot of americans that believe that -- related to the election is when the most serious thing, and they would like to see him held accountable for that before the next election. but all these cases, the drip drip drip of being donald trump found liable or responsible by judges and juries does whittle

away at him, at least of circles. >> the bottom is falling out on his legal cases because there are actual standards of evidence and proof in civil court and in criminal courts and conversely his attempts to acquit his situation with joe biden situation by concocting a whole bunch of conspiracy theories has also pretty much collapsed but. this last week, the alexander smirnoff who was the confidential human informant at the base of the burisma allegations was accused of being a fraud who had lied to the fbi and constructed a false documentary record by donald trump's own handpicked special counsel, mr. weiss, who brought criminal charges against near enough. the impeachment investigation against joe biden appears to be vanquished at this point, at

least that's the way that i see it. what you've got is biden campaigning on real public policy promises and commitments and then you've got trump who's in this constant soap opera related to various financial frauds, political frauds sexual attacks, and if i have my way we will also be talking about the millions and millions of dollars that he and his family have been taking from foreign governments against the constitution. >> i think we must be talking about that, let's go back for a second to what you just talked about, burisma and ukraine. this thing is like a cockroach in the new york apartment, this thing doesn't go away no matter how much evidence you have that is not really a thing. you serve on the oversight and accountability committee, alongside james comer who is the chair of that committee and one of the members who are leading the impeachment inquiry into president biden. as you mentioned last week, the key fbi informant in that case was indicted for lying to the

government about information that republicans, that is central to the republican case in their impeachment inquiries. what do you make of this? your lawyer and a member of congress what do you make about that -- to republicans just not that this information? why does it stay alive despite proof and evidence that continually comes out that there is no story here? >> there's been nearly a dozen reputations of these burisma claims including by the former head of burisma, including by rudy giuliani's right-hand man lev parnas who wrote chairman comer and -- a long letter and saying this is all based on house of cards, fraudulent allegations, it's time to let it go. even the republicans in the senate investigated in 2020 and came back empty-handed saying that there was nothing there and now we know why. we've gotten to the very bottom of the allegations and smirnoff

has been proven to be a fraught. i would hope that the republicans would let it go but that would suggest that they have some other program or public agenda and it looks like they don't. if i were chairing the oversight committee right now, we would be having serious oversight hearings into the gun violence epidemic across the country trying to figure out what can be done about that. but again, they are in a situation where donald trump is calling the tune and what he wants is for them to try and dirty up joe biden so he doesn't look like he's the only thoroughly corrupt person running for president in 2024. >> let's go back to this alan bragg case the so-called hush money trial. is the first criminal trial of a former president, it's set to begin 36 days from now. alvin bragg has characterized this more recently as an effort to interfere with the 2016 election, what i was talking about at the beginning of the show. i think that's the important part about it because, the hush

money part of it is an element of the election interference. you have spent a lot of time, maybe more the most, thinking about election interference in your roles both as an impeachment manager and on the january six committee. tell me about how we end the viewing public, and the american citizenry should be thinking about alvin bragg's case and the connection to the larger issue of donald trump? >> i think of it as donald trump never accepting joe biden's election in 2020. and we know he didn't except it and he was trying to condition his followers to not accepted even before the election took place, going around the country saying the only way that he can win is if there's fraud, and preparing people for what he knew from the poles was certainty which was he was going to lose. and he lost to joe biden by more than 7 million votes, 360 2:32 in the electoral college. a margin that he declared an absolute landslide when he won

by the same number of electoral votes against hillary clinton in 2016. but we know that he levied a violent insurrection against the election, he tried to overturn it in the states at the department of justice and then of course he finally tried to get his vice president mike pence to step outside of his constitutional role and just declare trump the winner or kick the whole thing into a contentious election but he never accepted biden as president and he is continued to rio about that and now going around the country saying he will pardon the january six insurrectionists who attacked our officers, and so on. his approach to elections is that he will do anything to concoct a story that he has won and he will do anything to undermine the other side, other than just go out to the country and tell people what he wants to do there is no public policy agenda. they don't even pretend that there is a paul public policy agenda at this point.

and that's a pretty terrifying thing for democracy, one of the hallmarks of an authoritarian political party is that it does not accept the outcome of democratic elections that don't go their way, and so he substitutes for real democratic politics all of this soap opera fantasy world that he is created and we get dragged into trump fraud land. >> let's go a little farther with this whole idea that there's no domestic policy you mention when talking about the joe biden and the comer stuff that if they could just pivot away from that, and talk about real things, last week they tried to make a pivot the house republicans managed to impeach the homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas and i don't know if you know anybody who knows why he was impeached, for anything that resembles high crimes, misdemeanors, or bribery. it sounds like he's following government policy, policy that republicans in the house wanted to change and they managed to

get compromise with democrats on changing. so even when they pivot away from nonsense they pivot into other nonsense. >> that's right. the senate spent nonsense negotiating a border compromise agreement, and they came with up with it because donald trump dictated to mike johnson and the gop that they should not accept aid going to ukraine. we know that vladimir putin didn't want that, aid to israel, and aid to the suffering people of gaza unless there was a border deal. a border deal was arrived at after agonizing compromise they came back with it, senator langford and senator mcconnell saying here we have the deal, everybody is ready to vote on it. but then of course the fourth branch of government and the fifth branch of government, donald trump and vladimir putin said no, they don't want any kind of agreement ordeal at all. so they exploded it and they blew it up and now we're back to all of his performative

nonsense that, and the circus antics of the gop instead of us being able to focus on real policy. in the meantime, the people of ukraine are under the gun of vladimir putin's filthy bloody invasion and the militarized drones, and the attacks of the civilian population. there is more suffering in gaza taking place we haven't done anything about that we haven't gotten aid to israel. in other words, we have dealt with a whole package that president biden sent several months ago because they simply have no program on the republican side. >> that's remarkable. congressman, good to see you this morning, pick you for joining us. the democratic representative jamie raskin, of nd. he still to come, -- a special election for george santos's seat in new york. it's not enough to ease the fears of what is to come in 2024. some are calling it the anxiety election of 2024. up next, the latest in the war in ukraine as we near the third year of fighting.

there has been the first significant change on the battlefield in months. what it means for the future the war and the fight for democracy, next on velshi. for democracy, next on velshi. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! wanna know why people are getting a covid-19 shot? i'm turning the big seven-o and getting back on the apps. ha ha ha. variants are out there... and i have mouths to feed. big show coming up, so we got ours and that blue bandage? never goes out of style. i prioritize my health... also, the line was short. didn't get a covid-19 shot in the fall? there's still time. book online or go to your local pharmacy. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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don't wait, call and switch today! this saturday marks two years since the start of the russians full-fledged and invasion of ukraine. yesterday ukraine confirmed that it had retreated from the now decimated town of avdiivka, which is located in central donetsk. this comes after months of intense combat and the first significant -- now ruin a city of bakhmut in may. otherwise the situation along this 600-mile front has remained essentially stalemated since that time. ukraine's 2003 counteroffensive failed to make significant battlefield games with the exception of re-capturing this village, robotyne located just

over any prove river this is the farther that ukrainian forces were able to advance along this part of the front. russia now has its sights on capturing this vital village again, well on the northern part of the front kreminna russia is looking to retake areas that ukraine won back its first counteroffensive a hugely successful campaign back in september of 2022. just south of avdiivka russia's also focusing on this town vuhledar. this is a sight of a major battle last year. ukraine held off -- both sides in this battle suffering tremendous losses. however rushes control of the neighboring village of maria has made the fall of avdiivka it's not a given russia the edge in this particular battle. and busy -- is in ukraine with more. richard? >> it is a very bad sign that

ukrainian troops had to take the decision, the painful decision to withdraw from the town of avdiivka. a dip tekah is out here in eastern ukraine and the ukrainians decided it simply was not worth holding onto the town because they were outmanned they were outgunned and that is something we are seeing all along the front line. a diva was just one example, and the russians are putting a lot of force into this fight. russia has four times the population that ukraine does, it has a larger manufacturing face, it has allies in iran and north korea that have replenish the weapons supplies. ukraine is still waiting for more reinforcements, ukraine is struggling to come up with enough recruits and is looking now at tightening the draft so that they can bring more people from the population and send them to the front line and it is also waiting for more

weapons and ammunition particularly from the united states and they are watching this deadlock in congress with great concern here as it is not theoretical anymore the russians are advancing on the front lines and with just this case of avdiivka it is the biggest russian advance in the last year. it is symbolic but it is a symbol of things that are shifting here in russia's favor. >> that's nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. up next -- alexander vindman joins the conversation. you're watching velshi on msnbc. watching velshi on msnbc. powerful vicks vapors to vaporize sore throat pain. vicks vapocool drops. vaporize sore throat pain. a test or approve a medication. we didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. and our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our lives.

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democrats agree. conservative republican steve garvey is the wrong choice for the senate. ...our republican opponent here on this stage has voted for donald trump twice. mr. garvey, you voted for him twice... as your own man, what is your decision? garvey is wrong for california. but garvey's surging in the polls. fox news says garvey would be a boost to republican control of the senate. stop garvey. adam schiff for senate. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message.

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here right matters an american story. colonel good to see you again. i want to start off where richard left off where this idea of delayed american funding for ukraine is no longer a theoretical. it is real and you are seeing the consequences on the grounds. the losing of a avdiivka is directly related to a shortage of ammunition. >> that's absolutely true. i think the fact is that we've had months of-limited funding from the u.s. that came in the form of budgetary support to ukrainian governments to be able to pay its soldiers, to be able to make its obligations but the real material impact on the battlefield is the lack of ammunition coming in. the russians now outmatched the ukrainians by 57 in some case 10 to 1 rounds being fired and that's a recipe for disaster. this year, 2024 was always going to be a challenge. i think the fact is in my assessment ukraine was going to

take some small territorial losses. that is accelerating because of the fact that the u.s. and the west and in particular is not providing adequate military at material. one option is frankly -- i'm just gonna say one option would be to take all the financial resources out of the eu and applying those two u.s. military material, a marriage between those two in order to try to plug that hole. >> one of the things that donald trump seemed to be bragging about in a campaign rally the other day was how some unknown european country, nato country, that said if we don't pay our bills and we get attacked by russia will you defend us and donald trump very proudly said no, you're on your own if you don't pay your bills. that's a story that is a little bit behind us, the concept of companies not -- spending adequately on defense and that's a real issue for a separate time, but the joking about russia -- letting russia invade a nato country when

russia has invaded and nato adjacent country should give us some warning signs about this election year. >> we should be terrified. the fact is that we are not behind this, donald trump has created a grave danger to nato and to u.s. forces in eastern europe. and i'm just finishing writing a piece on this. the reason is that from putin's perspective trump has invited an attack on nato. that is not rhetorical, that is not just for the u.s. base. that is a signal to putin that consequences would be limited in this kind of scenario and it's not just a candidate running for elected office, this is the leader of the republican party, the republican party that has 180 about faced on other national security imperatives like border security. that is now taking its marching orders. if putin were to attack eastern

europe, the baltics, what would the response be from the u.s. government? it may be nothing. it may be just absolute chaos because the republican party, which again cart caters to donald trump would not act in support of our allies under attack. that is an invitation, that is a recipe for disaster, this is again posing a grave danger. this is not a remote scenario, this is not rhetorical flourishes. this is a signal to putin that he may misinterpret like he did when he attacked ukraine in 2022 and a potential flash point for a direct confrontation precipitated by donald trump. very dangerous. >> colonel, very influential american personality tucker carlson interviewed vladimir putin went to russian for the first time in his life. it was kind of amazing the gushing report that he delivered on russia, all of which was out of context or maybe he just didn't understand the context. you talk about how groceries are so much cheaper in russia,

and how the subways in moscow are so terrific, and how moscow is one of the finest cities in the world and he just had all these amazing things to say about moscow and russia and vladimir putin it's nonsensical except that he's got a lot of people who listen to him. >> i've lived in moscow for three years, i've traveled extensively throughout russia, the saying is moscow is not russia, moscow and to petersburg the, two largest cities are not russia. you go beyond the first 45 large cities the situation turns really quite dire for the population at large. people don't understand that millions, tens of millions of people do not have access to plumbing. do not have access to electricity. there is a concentration of wealth that is hard for the u.s. population to fathom and he is basically in the center of the most wealthy city, most expensive city [inaudible] -- and frankly what is a french grocery trained by the way,

about how prices are great and picking one of the most beautiful metro stations but that should not belie the reality of how difficult things are, that's why you see russian soldiers stealing cell phones stealing, washing machines sending those back because they don't have access to those things, but it also is just a complete mischaracterization of the prosperity in russia versus the u.s.. we are the most wealthy country in the world our economy is somewhere between 25 and 27 trillion dollars huge portions of the global economy and the comparison between the two, russia with its 1.8 trillion dollar economy is comical. tucker is basically a fool, a useful idiots in portraying things completely opposite of reality. >> good to see you as always, return retired -- alexander vindman, former director of european affairs for the united states national security

council and the author of the important book here right matters the american story, and as we enter our third year of right fighting in ukraine it is an important book to read if you haven't read it yet. it'll tell you about the back story be about why we are where we -- central to the 2024 presidential campaign with both party front runners only four years apart in their late 70s and early 80s. one candidate in particular has four years been examining head- scratching behavior from windmills, magnets and toilets to person, woman, man, camera, tv to much more dangerous blatant lies. i'll lay it all out, next. out,. and stomach pain. , ask about nurtec odt. detect this: living with hiv, robert learned he can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why he switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: marnina learned that most hiv pills

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whenever heartburn strikes. get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. also available tums+ sleep support. president biden's age and alleged lack of mental acuity have been political catnip for republicans. but there is one glaring issue with this gop line of attack. you cannot focus on biden's montell faculties without also focusing on donald trump's.

the republican front runner is four years younger than president biden, and he knows it. so trump events. on wednesday, -- saying quote biden is not too old he's too incompetence. confidence. so that's where we're going with us now. trump says that he has it, and biden doesn't. some examples, trump says he has -- not uses -- but has the best words. at a rally on south carolina on wednesday, trump laid the benchmark. >> he's old, he's broken, he's incompetent. but let's also talk about trump. you know i stand up here and make the speeches all the time. >> he stands up and makes the speeches all the time, which is true. which means we've got a lot of evidence about his confidence. and i mean a lot. >> by the way, they never report the crowd on january six. nikki haley, nikki haley -- is in charge of security.

we all offered her 10,000 people soldiers. >> the place where we've done very well, sioux falls. >> sioux city. >> viktor orban, did anyone ever hear of him? he's one of the strongest leaders anywhere in the world. he's the leader of turkey. >> just think where we would be in world war ii very quickly. >> i don't even know who the woman -- let's see, i don't know who the it's marla -- you say melissa this photo. >> that's marla, that's my wife. >> which women are you pointing to? >> here. >> the person you just pointed to his e. jean carroll. >> in that last clip he confuse e. jean carroll a woman he was found guilty of sexually assaulting, with his ex wife

margaret maples. verbal and mental slip ups happen to folks young in old, even me. trump's words -- technically inaccurate and downright dangerous. there are the big lies, like insisting the 2020 election was rigged, and the threats against his political opponents and those attempting to hold him to account, and the cozying up to autocrats. but there's another category of trump hyperbole, beyond the lies and the untruths, and the bag threats. which more than anything raises the questions. >> we have to win in november or we are not going to have pennsylvania, they'll change the name. >> the windmills are driving them crazy, they're driving the whales i think a little body. >> the person, woman, man camera, tv. so they say, could you repeat that? so i said yeah, so each person,

woman man, camera, tv. okay, that's very good. >> people are flushing toilets ten times, 15 times as opposed to once. they end up using more water so epa is looking at that very strongly at my suggestion. >> i know about magnets as this. give me a glass of water, not much of it on the magnets, that's the end of magnets. >> it would be a supreme feat of some presidential conference presidents if you could bring the quote end of magnets. i don't want to spend -- spread water all over my workspace, i'm gonna do the same thing by dropping this magnet -- i'm gonna drop it in this bowl of water so it's nice and wet. and i'm gonna wet the magnet. oh lo and behold, there is that. donald trump talks a lot. he didn't and magnets. saying not very much at all. but actions speak long louder than words, and trump's actions speak volumes.

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the 2016 election was an inflection point in american politics, not only because it signaled the start of donald trump's takeover and his remaking of one of only two major political parties in this country, but because it changed what many of us thought was possible in america. it proved that someone who broke all the rules and did so proudly could win the highest office in the land, and that he could go on to debase the office making dangerous decisions, carrying out cruel policies and abusing anyone in his own cabinet even who showed the slightest sign of disloyalty. in short it showed us that we in america could be company becomes subject to the winds of a petty tyrants. and the shockwaves from that moment for donald trump surprised women from everything

that followed continue to vibrate through the american consciousness to today. that threat did not end at all when joe biden defeated donald trump in 2020, because donald trump didn't go away. and that makes every thinking, carrying american very nervous. molly john fast at articulate this collective unease, this anxiety, and urges calm in a piece for vanity fair this week. quote, we've now entered the anxiety election. the prospect of trump with his four criminal indictments and authoritarian fantasies returning to the white house is of course a terrifying scenario. what if this was like 2016 again. what if democrats didn't pick the right candidate to beat trump, it was like everyone forgot how electable biden was in 2020, it's like everyone forgot the democrats have overperformed in every election since the very trumpy supreme court overturned roe, and quote. joining me now is the aforementioned knowledge on fast, special correspondent

forever and vanity fair and msnbc political analyst, and host the fast politics podcast. also joining us, david pepper -- and author of important books including saving democracy, a users manual for every american. welcome to both of you. thank you for being here, david you thesis is different but it leads us to the same place so i wanted you to join this conversation. molly, let me start with you. i really have trouble with figuring out where to go on this because on one hand you and david are right you point out the democrats keep winning including last tuesday in the seat that tom suozzi originally lost to george santos. on the other hand i meet a lot of people in this very city who don't seem all that alarmed by donald trump. they would like their lower taxes, they would like to lower regulations they sorry didn't think he break anything really, he's mostly just unusual guy. i vacillate between do we push the anxiety or do we pull back and say things are actually unfolding better than you might think? >> you are never -- the trump

base, you're never gonna be able to talk to. but i think this sort of middle there's still a persuadable middle. i also think that what -- they anxiety democrats are having right now about joe biden is almost entirely based on polls. there's no other piece of information. there is some media tends not to cover his press conference is so much because they're boring, -- >> which is the way they used to be in life, and the way it's okay to be. >> you look at last week, he did presser's, he did a meet and greet with the king of jordan he had a very interesting and important and moving statement on the death of navalny, he answered questions, he did presidential things. but the things that tend to get coverage of biden are gaffes. so you only sort of have a gaffe -- and meanwhile you have trump that making gaps that are ten times worse, he doesn't know where he is, he doesn't know what day it is, he doesn't know what day the prime areas.

>> doesn't know the difference between his ex wife and eugene carroll puts magnets -- >> selling these $400 shoes to try to pay off his judgment. so i think there are some people who maybe desperately want a tax cut and are willing to go into authoritarianism but i don't think that's the norm. >> as a business reporter they're, please don't go into authoritarianism over tax cuts. >> david a -- tom suozzi victory and the point you are making was that this shouldn't really surprise you all that much this is how it can work. tell me how it can work, because you did this in ohio with the referendum on abortion you're sort of saying that democrats can lean into something that works very effectively in the upcoming election? >> yeah, a bigger picture, and -- wrote so well about this in her piece. we have two things happening at once that has led to this very aced historic winning streak since august of 22, normally when you're in the white house

you lose all these things. i was a candidate in midterms at ten and 14 it, was terrible. we've won since august 20 to almost every major showdown at different levels, in red states and blue states and i think two things are coming together here, one the far-right which dobbs captured so much extremism is too much for mainstream america. in election after election they've shown that whether it's been kansas for, kentucky, or michigan, pennsylvania, and then there's also, and i agree that we shouldn't be freaking out but we should know the stakes are huge, the good news is there's a big progressive pro democracy army of grassroots activists who are very energized and they are sweeping into all these races be at kansas or ohio last year, or -- and they are really energized and it's leading to higher turnout, in ohio that special election in august to protect democracy, republicans

estimated there would be an 8% turnout. it almost hit a mid term level 40% turnout, so there too extreme and that keeps showing up, and there's an energy on our side, i agree with -- we shouldn't be paralyzed with fear, but we should keep that stuff going because it's working in a time that is not supposed to, and i think we can build to a very good year this year, not just beating trump but also flipping the arizona state house. holding that pennsylvania state house and winning other races like we just one in new york winning a couple years ago. >> is this a positive sell for republicans when you're talking to people who are in that middle space? or is it a warning against voting for donald trump? >> i think republicans what you saw in new york city was that they have nothing to run on. you either run as monica and you hope and pray that all the maga's come out for you, which they tend only to come out for trump or you're just at a lock. you saw this candidate she

couldn't admit that she had voted for trump, she didn't want to say it's a week before she said it trump was like she lost because she didn't go full maga it's not an area that's going to elect for maga, but she had no choices. what trump has done for democrats is he has made it impossible for republicans to run as normal. >> as normal republicans. all right i, want you to both stay with here, please stay with me, i want to continue this conversation after the break. after the break. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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back with me now, molly john fast special correspondent for vanity fair, and -- david pepper a former chairman of the ohio democratic party and the author of the book of saving democracy a means user manner will forever be american and other important books. thank you for to both of us for being back with us. molly -- which came out a week ago at, he said he was not gonna go forward as a special prosecutor in charging joe biden with any crimes related to giving confidential documents top classified documents. then he went seemed to that -- he seem to be offering an evaluation of joe biden's mental fitness, which is not his job his job a special prosecutor was to say, was a law broken and was able to get a conviction, and his conclusion was no. >> he couldn't indict biden

legally so he indicted him politically, he couldn't give him a pass and what i thought was interesting in my mind was it almost read like a job interview for trump world. it reminded me a lot of the comey letter that. this is sort of pretending to be nonpartisan but really doing things to democrats who would probably not due to republicans. there is no legal case here and so i'm going to spend 345 pages using about joe biden's age. >> and now we have an issue because he base this whole thing david on a death position with joe biden that i imagine we are all going to see or hear depending on how it was recorded. and now you have this context in which he said he doesn't remember certain things, so plays into that. i think molly has a point here, it just sent like a job interview for trump world because no lawyer i've spoken to tell me there is any legal basis to offer the commentary on joe biden's mental okey

dokey though he did. >> it was outrageous, as -- i was struggling before i came on, whatever they had from that deposition you have, every trump rally of all time where he's seeing these outrageous things, can't remember who nikki halo is, -- my trying to give advice to american's about what you can do, my advice is to ignore all that. this is a long campaign. robert hurts remember -- it's probably gonna be forgotten. the best thing for the every day american who cares about democracy to do, forget all that, like they did last week. make phone calls for tom suozzi's. spent postcards for tom swati's. there's a lot of other races to get people recruited for. don't register voters. if we spend every week freaking out about everything like the robert hurd report, we're going to be frozen when we could be lifting democracy, it's a lot of the stuff, the polling and all that there's nothing we can do about that as everyday

americans but there are things we can do every single day to lift democracy, and that's why we have the winning streak we have because that's what we've been doing so let's keep that stuff going even if it is this crazy year that is going to last a long time. >> by the way, it's not in your book, but as donald trump you say you have to flush your book ten or 15 times, you should tell you doctor about that. that said, this is a good point. what david says is we can, and i think what you're writing about is we can be anxious about all this but there are little things -- elections are won in little ways. it's about registering, it's about voting, it's about registering someone else or taking someone to register, and checking the friends also voted, it's about small things and we're seeing these elections and these referenda being one in very small ways. >> yeah, and democrats lost the house because they weren't paying attention. that was five seats in new york that were really a lot of them were really tight seats and a couple seats in california.

these are seats that democrats if they're paying attention they can win back. it's a turnout game it's a shifting electorates, that's why the polls are often very off so if that 2020 turnout that 2020 electorate turns out democrats are gonna be fine. but yes it's absolutely a question of staying on the ball, and staying awake but really not despairing. but really not despairing. a users manual for every american. donald trump hit up sneaker conned in philadelphia yesterday for the unexpected and confusing drop of his new sneaker. who knew he had such a thing? they cost a whopping $400 a pair, but they look like the thing you'd buy on canal street. it would take 1,133,007 and 50 pairs to cover