shhh... [ achoo ] [ flatulence ] it's good to be with you. i'm peter alexander in for my friend, katy tur. we are now four days out from the south carolina primary and what promises to be an uphill climb for nikki haley's presidential ambitions. that is unless she can pull off what would be a major home state upset against the former president, donald trump.

both candidates are on the ground there pitching themselves to voters. so far today, mr. trump has blasted haley, who was trailing him by double edits saying the end is near for her campaign and predicting her run for the white house will fizzle out after saturday, but can haley have enough good will at home? she just delivered her i'm not going anywhere speech to a crowd and she's been slamming mr. trump more and more on the trail, going after his recent losses in court and his snowballing legal debt and now she is turning to what mr. trump said about the death of alexei navalny or perhaps more importantly, what he did not say. why trump's failure to condemn putin is raising eyebrows, instead comparing the u.s. to russia and how much it could resonate with voters. we have a whole lot to cover. we want to start with the reporting and joining us now is nbc news correspondent following the trump campaign, my friend garrett haake. and from greenville, south

carolina, ali vitali is with us. garrett, let me get to you right away. so, mr. trump, we have seen, has really let days go by without mentioning alexei navalny's name. the haley campaign has pounced on that. finally he mention and tried to compare his own position to that of navalny. comparing the united states to russia here. how is his campaign? how are his advisers defending his position? >> reporter: it's been striking because both campaigns have recognized the death of alexei navalny as a top global story and the trump campaign has barely touched it. the statement you referred to on truth social not only doesn't mention putin, it doesn't even mention russia. it just talks about navalny's sudden death then suggests it's somehow related to donald trump's various court cases. this goes back years.

you know well his domestic policy talking about russia. having to talk about putin to be dragged into this space. the kind of russia, russia, russia feeling within the trump white house still permeates the campaign. i believe their hope here is that they will ignore this issue and it will go away. much like they're now taking the posture with trying to ignore nikki haley and hope she fades away. trump has yet to take questions from reporters since navalny died. he's got a town hall tonight in which he'll surely be asked about it. i think it's a strategy that will run up against the reality of campaign life sooner than later. >> i think you're right. his failure to condemn putin, another example of something we saw over the course of his time in office as well to say nothing of the news conference the two men shared when they were together in helsinki.

i want to get to ali vitali in south carolina. we heard from ali hours ago where she was speaking about the fact she's not going anywhere. she's going to stay put no matter what happens. what is her key line of messaging as she still faces a large deficit in that state? >> reporter: look, they're aware of the landscape here, peter. the fact she's trailing in polls in her home state of south carolina. the fact this is one of those winner take all delegate states so she's not likely to have a big bounce in her delegate totals come voting time this weekend but what her speech was today, the crux of it, the political version of the mark twain quote about reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated. here's a line that struck me today. >> some of you, perhaps a few of you in the media, came here today to see if i'm dropping out of the race.

well, i'm not. i had no fear of trump's retribution. i'm not -- i'm not looking for anything from him. >> reporter: so haley there dispelling a few notions that have become narrative in the political press and in political circles over the course of the last few weeks saying she's not dropping out. not after south carolina and going through super tuesday. in fact to underscore that, she just announced a slate of campaign events picking up the day after south carolina voters go to the polls. she'll be in michigan, colorado, utah just to name a few. i'm overwhelmed by them because i'm going to be doing that travel alongside her. she also said her political future is not part of the calculus right now. many of the conversations i've had with my sources have been

why is nikki haley doing this and what is the end goal here. clearly, she's coming out to say the goal is to give more americans a trump alternative and she's prepared to be that. whether or not it benefits her political future and i would say probably not just given the fact we've seen what happens when you cross former president trump. >> yeah, ali, i know that deal. i've been on the campaign as well. when they get their schedule, that's when you find out yours. travel safe. appreciate you being with us. joining us now, "the washington post" senior national political correspondent and political analyst, ashley parker. and former chief strategist for the bush cheney campaign and msnbc's senior political contributor, matthew dowd is with us as well. ashley, help walk us through the sort of state of the race as we keep an eye on this. you've been keeping a close eye on trump and haley, in particular her challenge to try to challenge him right now. she's trying to walk this fine

line and i'm curious, clearly it hasn't worked to this point. what you think she hopes this accomplishes because it's a delicate dance she's doing. >> a couple of things. one challenge she has is that to beat him and stay in the race, she has to win. she has to win a state, and another state and another state. and while she has been impressive to be the last as she would say, woman standing against him, she hasn't won yet and she's preparing to lose in her home state and that's a very devastating thing to recover from. what's been fascinating for me to watch is how she's emerged part deliberately and intentionally and in part, she's been thrust into this role but as the new face of the anti trump resistance and she is making a strong and forceful case against him. it's a case that in talking to other republicans and

strategists they say she's a good person to make it because she may provide an off ramp for some of the republicans who voted for him twice, but as she likes to talk about, sick of that chaos. again, these people may not be enough to lift her to the finish line to be the nominee, but she could potentially help sway the race when she's out between trump and biden. >> let me ask you then specifically about the criticism from haley as it relates to trump on the topic of russia and alexei navalny. we saw it for the first time after three days, donald trump mentioned navalny's name. but his post didn't mention putin. didn't condemn russia. more than anything, it just complained about his open legal troubles right now and his frustrations. her attacks though on mr. trump, they really haven't seemed to resonate in the way you would think they would in the party formerly of reagan here. why is that and how does she get

more traction for that? >> well, that's one of her other challenges and it's fascinating to look at something i've been thinking about, too. how donald trump has sort of single handedly pulled his entire party to a much more isolationist stance where as you're seeing ukraine aid in congress, which is something republicans would always normally, they wouldn't even be a debate, right, is now held up. i mean, i remember you and i both, peter, covered when mitt romney in 2012 said our biggest geopolitical foe was russia. that was sort of republican orthodox until donald trump came along. so the challenge was facing and russia this issue underscores it, but the party has become donald trump's party. whether it's on russia or other maga issues. and when you're running to try to beat him, that's just a base you are not going to be able to peel off even on issues of what used to be sort of standard conservative, no brainer

orthodoxy. >> matthew, the playing field has changed so dramatically. not just since 2012, but frankly over the course you know since 2016. it's now just become yet more maga than it was then. if you were advising nikki haley, what would you tell her? how do you change the trajectory or is it just simply the ship has sailed? >> well, she's running in the wrong party. that's the problem she has. it's like the republican party that she's running for and appealing to no longer exists. and it's amazing to me, maybe she's realized that and she thinks going through this process will somehow get her to the other side. and then she'll be available. i think the problem is multifold for her. one is from iowa to new hampshire and now the polls in south carolina, she is losing republican self-identified voters by 40 plus points. in the course of this. you can't win a republican nomination losing republicans by

40 or 50 points. and she's going to lose among republican voters in south carolina by 40 to 50 points in this. this race as far as a nomination process is basically over in this. and i think she has to come to the realization which people like mitt romney came to and other republicans have come to, is that the republican party that they once knew no longer is the republican party today. >> matthew, as i look at those numbers, there are a lot of figures you can stare at. obviously it has republicans and independents but on the topic of republicans, the red, the second line there, self-identified republicans. you're right. she loses by almost 50 points. there are still 25% of self-identified republicans who support haley. that means they oppose donald trump really as much as anything, that's the people, those are the people to keep an eye on going forward. do they support joe biden in the

general election or come home to donald trump? >> well, here's what i'd say is going to happen with that. first, my guess is once nikki haley drops out no matter what she says, she's going to endorse donald trump. so this idea that sort of the never trumpers are sort of encouraging her, watch when she endorses trump. >> why does she endorse donald trump after all the things that she said? chris christie wouldn't endorse her because he was afraid he would make that conclusion then all of a sudden, she would endorse donald trump and it would betray everything he's been arguing. >> because any future she has is the manifestation party post donald trump. whatever that is, that's her only future she has in this and that's i think her political calculation and many republicans which i think wrongly, they're thinking that somehow donald trump leaves the scene, leaves the play, and somehow the republican party is going to go back to normal. i don't think it is because what i think most of all is donald trump didn't change the

republican party fundamentally. donald trump is a reflection of what the republican party comes. post donald trump, they're not going to go to a nikki haley. they're going to go to a new version of donald trump in the aftermath. i think that's the process. it's like five stages of grief these republicans have to go through and it takes them a while to get to the point. one other thing, my guess, when you look at the republicans in the general election, donald trump did better among republicans in 2020 and in 2016 than mitt romney and john mccain did among republicans. and he's going to get 90 to 95% of the republican vote in the fall against joe biden. no matter what they say right now in the primary. >> yeah. he's swayed the republican vote in a lot of places where people hadn't voted for either party in many years. they came out to support donald trump. ashley, matthew, appreciate you and your expertise. still ahead, does speaker mike

johnson have anything to say what president biden wants to hear before he agree to a meeting? but first, how and when the biden administration plans to hold russia accountable for the death of alexei navalny. we're back with all of it in 60 seconds. y. we're back with all of it in 60 seconds. odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. rsv can seriously impact breathing, even for the best performer. protect yourself with pfizer's abrysvo... ...a vaccine to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. it's not for everyone and may not protect all who receive it. don't get abrysvo if you've had an allergic reaction to its ingredients. a weakened immune system may decrease your response.

most common side effects are tiredness, headache, injection-site pain and muscle pain. ask your pharmacist or doctor about abrysvo today. it has been five days since russia announced the mysterious death of putin's biggest opponent, alexei navalny. and his family is still waiting for answers from the kremlin. the white house says it will unveil a major sanctions package on friday to quote hold russia accountable for what happened. the new sanctions come as russia's invasion of ukraine approaches its second anniversary. the offensive has gained momentum in recent weeks while ukraine awaits the uncertain future of u.s. military aid. joining us from the donbas region is richard engel.

kelly o'donnell is there outside the white house as well. kelly, let me start with you. i want to get to that major sanctions package we were reporting here at nbc news earlier this afternoon. still limited details about this, but this follows president biden saying in geneva three years ago as you remember well, he said to putin, if alexei navalny dies in russian custody, there will be devastating consequences. >> reporter: when they said that, he could not have contemplated the war that has been raging for near two years. we expect on friday the administration will release a package that fuel the war effort, they're a part of their military industrial base and part of the reason there is typically hesitation in being too specific ahead of sanctions being levied is that in many cases, these involve business decisions, economic markets and so forth where change is

tinkering ahead of the fact could take place and could mitigate the impact of sanctions. so that is part of why we don't have all of the specifics yet. the message that the administration is trying to send is that they, too, are using this anniversary and seizing upon the death of alexei navalny as an example of what russia should be held accountable for in terms of the ongoing suffering in ukraine and the war there and the presumed assassination of a political foe of putin. so to address both of these things, they want to try to put pressure on russia and of course part of that is what the administration can do on its own and part of it, they are hoping to be persuasive of congress, to actually move forward on the national security package which includes funding for ukraine. so top officials in the administration are trying to push both of those angles and to try to really bring the reality

of navalny's death into clear perspective for lawmakers who have to make these decisions and then certainly using the levers of sanctions and u.s. treasury to try to inflict some more discomfort if not outright pain on russia's economy. peter? >> as you know well, that impasse in congress now having real world impact on the ground in ukraine. the first city to fall to russian's hands, where the ukrainians have been forced to ration their ammunition, their weapons. richard, i want to talk to you about a headline, this as zaporizhzhia, the nuclear power plant there. there were concerns about a year ago. there are new concerns now amid the russian advance. their assault. what is the latest on the ground? >> reporter: so the iaea says that the zaporizhzhia nuclear

power plant, which is in russian hands, controlled by russian troops, is right on the front line. the iaea says it is the most dangerous facility because it's on the front line. because it is part of this conflict. because there have been power outages there. there have been eight blackouts. the last one in december. i went to the office here in ukraine. it's an office in kyiv that every day now tracks what a meltdown would look like. where the fallout could potentially go if there was a nuclear disaster at zaporizhzhia. either because of a power cut, that's what they think is most concerning. that you could have a fukushima like situation. where the power is cut and by the way, three of the four powerlines into the plant are no longer working. the last one is faulty. so there's a system of back up generators. if the power is cut to the

external and the backup generators fail, you could have a meltdown. this office in kyiv tracks what that would look like and they imagine a cloud of radio active particles going up into the sky and then shifting with the weather. being moved around by the wind. and covering large parts of ukraine. potentially blowing into russia as well. the models change every day. i saw one model where this radio active cloud blew south and covered the entire city of istanbul. so it would have devastating effects. the director of this office said that tens of thousands of people would either be killed or have their health impacted. that large parts of ukraine and beyond would be rendered uninhabitable. couldn't use land for crops. couldn't use it for livestock. so truly global consequences.

not just consequences for ukraine, which would be devastating, but for neighboring countries. for the agricultural sector here which provides grain to much of the world. particularly the developing world. it is a real concern and the iaea sounded the alarm. >> those projections are so hard to fathom and yet it's a reality we may be facing in the course of the next several weeks. appreciate both of your reporting. coming up, with foreign aid frozen and the government shutdown looming, what's it going to take for the president and speaker to get into one room? that's next. d speaker to get in room that's next.

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fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. we're back now. president biden, mike johnson, both say they'd be happy to meet and negotiate a plan forward on the $60 billion of u.s. aid to ukraine that is stalled in congress. so far, nothing is on the books and if the government does not shutdown after lawmakers return to washington at the end of the month, the two will not see each other until the state of the union address. that is on march 7th. and joining us now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent, julie. it's good to see you here. when speaker johnson initially asked for a meeting a matter of days ago, the white house brushed it off and said basically what is is there to

meet about. we've told him all he needs to know related to the aid for ukraine and the like. then johnson on monday goes down, spends the day on presidents' day with a former president, donald trump, at mar-a-lago. and president biden cracks the door open to a possible sit-down with johnson to see if he has anything to say. what gives and what's the likely hood these two discuss? >> reporter: that's a great question. speaker johnson did meet with the president in january when they had the whole host of 22 key congressional leaders around the table with biden to figure out just that. a path forward on ukraine aid. a path forward on securing the border. since then, a lot has blown up, of course, but in the moments after president biden floated that he'd be open to this meeting yesterday, we did hear from speaker johnson's spokesperson who said they welcome the president's openness to meet with the speaker. i'm told that is the very latest. i checked in a couple of minutes

ago and there has been no movement on such a meeting, but certainly, the clock is ticking as you noted. and this isn't the first time that johnson had requested a one-on-one meeting. in fact, last week when we first broke the news that johnson wanted this, to not only move forward on any aid to ukraine, any aid to israel and potential border security provises. that he had asked, president biden, the chief of staff, for a meeting, which has not happened but perhaps biden is open to it. >> there are some efforts on capitol hill for a compromised package. for less money but if it's enough to keep them from a possible defeat. always nice to see you. thank you. coming up here, the u.s. just vetoed the latest resolution for a complete cease fire in gaza. what the u.n. ambassador is pushing for instead. . ambassado

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this election is about who shares your values. take your business further let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga

republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are. this ad? typical. politicians... "he's bad. i'm good." blah, blah. let's shake things up.

with katie porter. porter refuses corporate pac money. and leads the fight to ban congressional stock trading. katie porter. taking on big banks to make housing more affordable. and drug company ceos to stop their price gouging. most politicians just fight each other. while katie porter fights for you. for senate - democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message. we have made incredibly clear that the resolution before the council would not achieve the goal of a sustainable peace and may in fact run counter to it. proceeding with a vote today was wishful and irresponsible. so while we cannot support a

resolution that would put sensitive negotiations in jeopardy, we look forward to engaging on a text that we believe will address so many of the concerns we all share. a text that can and should be adopted by the council. >> the u.s. ambassador to the united nations for the third time, the u.s. vetoed a resolution calling for a cease fire in gaza. instead, the u.s. is circulating an alternative. this draft stops short of a cease fire but calls for a six week pause in the fighting and also opposes any planned ground operation in rafah. the ambassador says it is a path forward that will not risk negotiations, but those negotiations may already be in jeopardy as a new round of talks is set to begin in egypt.

netanyahu has vowed to finish the job in gaza, saying a hostage release can be achieved through strong military action and benny ganske has given until march 10th to return the hostages before israel pushes into rafah. joining us now from tel aviv is raf sanchez. i want to ask you, president biden's top middle east adviser is set to visit israel and egypt this week as i reported earlier today. where do things stand ahead of their talks? >> reporter: every indication is that these negotiations have stalled and that the biden administration is trying to get them moving again. as you reported, brett mcgirk, one of the president's top advisers on the middle east in the region this week. you had bill burns in the region last week in cairo meeting with

officials from israel and qatar and egypt trying to jump-start these negotiations. but despite the shuttle diplomacy from very senior american officials, the fundamental gaps between israel and hamas and these talks seem to remain. you heard prime minister netanyahu dismissing hamas' demands at this point as delusional and saying there is really no point in talking until hamas shifts. a couple of those big gaps, peter, whether any deal to release the hostages brings an end to the war all together, which is what hamas wants, or brings a temporary pause after which the fighting will resume, which is what israel wants. the other big division here, how many prisoners is israel going to have to release from its own jails in order to get those hostages back. at this point, a lot of american diplomacy. not a whole lot of movement in those talks. >> raf, thank you.

now joining us is the former consul general. ambassador, i appreciate you being with us. i want to get you view on what the u.s. position is right now. opposing obviously a permanent cease fire leaning instead according to a draft obtained by nbc new to a six week cease fire here and specifically as it relates to rafah. we've heard multiple times from the president and his top advisers that they want there to be a credible plan in place before any invasion, vault on rafah with nearly 1.5 million palestinians there. are you comfortable with the u.s.' position? is that the best path forward? >> i think it is, peter. we have to look at three things here in this respect in the context of, sorry, of your question. the first is that the u.s. sees a cease fire, views a cease fire as a prerequisite to any

launching of the so-called biden plan. the post war gaza and the link to the west bank and an international force and then normalization with saudi arabia that would also include a saudi american defense pact. all of this looks very ambitious but whether you like it or not, i happen to like it, but whether you like this plan or think of it as feasible or not, a cease fire is a prerequisite. now, the u.s. has indicated to several countries that were circulating their draft today, the one that was vetoed by the u.s., that the u.s. itself intends to circulate the one that you reported on. and i think that is the right way to move forward. now, the second point, peter, is that the u.s. sees a 45-day, six weeks, 45-day cease fire as a de

facto end of the war. now, mr. netanyahu can call it what you want and he can spew more platitudes about annihilation and eradication and toppling hamas. he may want to, he may mean that, but it means nothing because 45 days, you don't just begin shooting on the 46th day. the third thing to look at is the hostage thing. the u.s. seems to be and i know that secretary blinken has been very blunt about that when he was here last. is that the u.s. seems much more intent on getting the hostage deal done than prime minister netanyahu, which comes as a shock to some israelis and not really a surprise. >> let me ask you if i can right now. obviously, you were a foreign policy adviser to the labor party. for folks at home, it's more like the democrats versus the republicans to give people a

better understanding of this right now. but the biden administration's position on this is that the only way this thing is resolved is a two-state solution. there's a palestinian state alongside israel there. you wrote in a recent op-ed in one of the papers in israel that it's not only that that is too ambitious of an outcome, but that anyone with that expectation will be taken for a ride by benjamin netanyahu, who in the eyes of a lot of people may see out the end of this war, maybe the end of his time in politics. what did you mean by that? >> okay. it's ambitious and may not be feasible at this point. the downsides seem to outweigh the pros and the israeli state of mind right now would restrict that, but then again, it's the only game in town. in this respect, peter, netanyahu is like the george washington of the palestinian state. you know, he just started

something. wasn't sure how it's going to end. now, you know, until four, five months ago, the idea of a palestinian state if you wanted to discuss it in washington, people would wave you off and say, not now. this isn't relevant. right now, ironically paradoxically, the horrors of october 7th make that possibility at least a topic for conversation. now, what i do sense is that the u.s., well, the u.s. and biden administration, that is, sort of feel they perhaps overused the term palestinian state to the effect that it scared a lot of people off in israel and allowed netanyahu to use is that as a pretext to do anything else. it's not about hamas, gaza, hostages.

i'll be quick. i know we don't have time. the biden administration is doing in the last two, three weeks is sort of mitigating or softening the terminology and saying a demilitarized palestinian state at the end of a negotiated process by consent and in good faith. that is something -- >> i think you would agree and i covered the white house here that the priority for the white house was to help support israeli hopes that capital he built with the israelis would allow him to pursue this effort. obviously it remains a very decisive issue across the country. ambassador, appreciate you being with us. thank you so much. coming up, what happened in a u.k. court as julian assange embarked on a last ditch legal effort to avoid extradition to the united states. plus, the fbi informant charged with lying to the fbi is due in federal court today.

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today, the london high court heard what could be wikileaks founder julian assange's final bid to avoid extradition to the u.s. he is wanted for leaking thousands of secret military files. he has been fighting extradition on espionage charges for more than five years now. his supporters have been protesting around the world as

you see there, saying he's been wrongly accused in exposing war crimes. joining us now is keir simmons with the latest on all of this. can you walk us through some of the events that got us to this place and what we should expect out of this hearing? how soon will we know how this is resolved? >> reporter: peter, the julian assange story, the wikileaks story, transcends some of the politics of the past few decades. the afghanistan war, the iraq war, russian interference, president trump, president obama. but we really may be where julian assange has this opportunity to say that he should be allowed to appeal against his extradition. if he doesn't win that chance, then he has very few more legal options ahead of him. what his legal team are arguing here in london is that effectively this would be a politically motivated extradition. they say that effectively what

he was doing was a kind of journalism that really changed many peoples' view of the iraq war, the afghanistan war, and that he, this is all about freedom of speech. what the u.s. argues and we'll hear more from the u.s. government tomorrow in court, is that in fact this is not a form of responsible journalism. that it put lives at risk and that he got involved in illegal hacking. now, if it was politically motivated as an extradition, then that would be his team say against the law here in the u.k. and that could stop his extradition. you're right, peter. it's an extraordinary story that begins with the wars in iraq and afghanistan then those seven years, an embassy here in london, holed up. then five years, almost five years in a high security prison. in that time, he's had two children. he's got married and according to his team today, he's too sick

to appear in court. his wife says if he is extradited to the u.s. and is in jail in the u.s., because of how sick he is, he could die. it's a real mix of journalistic ethics, legal questions and kind of an ethical moral dimension, too. >> i remember i think we first met in 2010. almost 15 years ago when i was covering the assange case when it began there in london and now we're still watching this play out. appreciate your sharing your expertise on this topic with us and joining us now is the investigative journalist and co-author of find me the votes. michael isakoff, it's good to see you as we speak about julian assange all these years later after those years held up in the ecuadoran in the uk as well facing potential extradition. it was feared to sweden. is this the end of the line for julian assange? >> it looks like it. he does have the option of

trying to appeal to the european court of human rights. he could file an appeal on that if he gets turned down here. but it's also more than likely that if the high court turns this request town, they will send him back to the skpus that appeal might be moved. >> and this is a complex topic because sometimes first amendment fights deal with protecting the rights of people viewed as unsavory by a lot of different people here. if assange does get extraditd to the united states, what is the state of that conversation here among american lawmakers as it relates and what should we expect to happen to him here? >> this is a case about which people particularly had the press are profoundly ambivalent. on one hand, some of the charges against assange do relate to disclosure of national defense information. that's the kind of charge that could be used against "the new

york times," "the washington post," nbc news, you look at some is of the ground breaking reporting that was done, especially during the bush era. the disclosure of black site prisons or surveillance by american citizens by the bush administration, those were classified documents and information, but one for exposing arguable wrong doing by the government. so on the one hand, that's one reason why many of us on the press are ambivalent about these charges. on the other hand, there's also charges against assange for doing things that most journalists would not do, such as trying to get chelsea manning crack a computer password and i object inducing her to steal classified documents and give them to him. and also some of the disclosures

that assange made while it had valuable information, it had the name of u.s. informants and put their lives at risk. so that's something that a lot of people are uncomfortable defending. so we'll just have to see if he gets brought back to the u.s., which i i think is likely at this point. how this plays out, how strong the justice department pushes it, they have locked in and they are continuing to argue he should be extradited, so it would be quite a trial in the u.s. if he's brought back. >> after all these years, a lot of mixed opinions as it relates to julian assange and the drama we have seen play out over 15 years. it's nice to see you. coming up next, what to expect with the fbi informant charged with lying to the fbi in the impeachment probe makes an appearance. it's going to take place in federal court this afternoon. that's ahead. you're watching msnbc reports. in

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the former fbi informant accused of lying about president biden and his son hunter biden will appear in front of a las vegas judge about two hours from now. he was arrested last week at the airport after trying to board an international flight. the false statements he's accused of making were at the center of impeachment investigation into the prosecute. they said he was one of the most credible sources they had as part of their investigation. joining us now is justice reporter ryan riley. we have been talking a the lot about this it recently. just to remind folks who have been catching up with the news here,s this was the guy who had basically said that hunter and joe biden received a $500 million bribe. now accusation here is that it was made up. >> if it you heard about that bribe on a fox news segment,

this is where this all originated from. over the summer, republicans were really pressing the fbi for this document because they said this was their moment biggest part of their case. this was someone who was credible. this is what sort of gave it to that credibility saying, look, the fbi vet this guy. he's been their source for a long time. here's what he say. we're just relaying what he told the fbi. that gave it credibility that wasn't really warranted. >> what should we expect to come out of this hearing? this is a detention hearing. we have been reporting this on msnbc and on the network side as well. the government tries to make his case about why he should remain bars until a trial would take place. >> it's going to be interesting is the defense attorneys are saying that he's being held in protective custody right now. that's an outgrowth of his worth. for ten years, for 13 years, he was on the inside. there might be a lot of people who might not be too friend lu

towards him within the court system. he's in protective custody. what his defense attorneys are saying is that's going to limit his ability to present a defense. >> any sense when a trial would happen? >> these cases -- because there's a lot of complicated issues here with him being an fbi informant, i imagine there's going to be a few delays, but it depends upon if he's being held. he's going to want to go to trial more quickly. where if he's free, he might be more willing to kick this down the line and engage in more discovery. >> we could play a montage of many people all singing his praises, not by name, but the informant who have the one bringing up the bribe claims. thank you for your expertise. that's going to do it for me. "deadline: white house" begins right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 here in n