where they got it from. hey, it wasn't stolen. it was gotten this legitimate way, and we are just purchasers at the end of the continuum. we didn't know nothing. >> don henley is going to be on the stand. that's going to be interesting too. danny cevallos, thank you. saw the eagles recently, still amazing. >> me too. >> did you? still amazing, like they need me to certify they're still great. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you. i'm katy tur. republicans on the hill thought they had a smoking gun. a secret fbi informant who said unequivocally that president biden and his son hunter took a bribe from the ukrainian gas company burisma.

a highly credible confidential human source with the most corroborating evidence we have said judiciary chair jim jordan last month. sounds big. and according to reporting from multiple outlets, it was big. alexander smirnov was the lynch pin, perhaps, of the entire gop impeachment inquiry into president biden. except that lynch pin now looks more like a poison pill. in a new court filing, the special counsel tasked with investigating hunter biden's business dealings said smirnov is a lay liar, that he can't be trusted on anything, not about his financial conditions, not his alleged meetings, not about his supposed insider information, and certainly not about the bribe claims. in fact, special counsel weiss says the lies smirnov is still telling are linked to russian intelligence and could, quote, impact u.s. elections. oof. so where does the house impeachment inquiry go now? hunter biden is supposed to

testify next week, but first his uncle james is behind closed doors with house oversight and judiciary today. nbc news obtained his opening statement. he planned on telling the committees that his brother, joe biden, has never had anything to do with his business dealings. joining us now, nbc news investigative correspondent, tom winter, and "punchbowl news" cofounder and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. tom, i will begin with you. tell me about alexander smirnov. >> 43 years old, he's got a duel citizenship with israel. he's somebody who for over ten years, actually going back to 2010, provided information to the fbi. it started out in some russian organized crime circles. that's not the mafia. russian organized crime has this very different relationship than say the italian mafia does with the u.s. it's interwoven, there's security services. security services help them out. it's this continual

relationship, and alexander smirnov provided the fbi with information, clearly that they felt was helpful and relevant because he wouldn't have been part of the team for so long. he had his fbi handlers personal cell phone. that's how close they were talking nearly every day. flash forward, he had had some discussions about hunter biden being on the burisma board, the ukrainian natural gas company, that we know hunter biden did work for as a board member that he had some indication of what was going on there at the company, but then that takes a shift. and so starting several years ago, he starts talking about these meetings that he had, these telephone conversations that he had, and this back and forth about what was really going on. there were direct payments not only to then vice president joe biden but also to hunter biden for official acts, in other words, for joe biden to act on behalf of burisma in exchange for these payments. that was the information that you were referring to that congress was talking about, and

obviously that could be quite serious if true. around the time this is happening, bill barr says i'm going to take information related to ukraine, and even caution in his statements, and he referenced rudy giuliani by name who as we know, was wrapped up in some of this, giving information that he says was potentially a problem for the bidens. he says, look, i'm going to take this information in, but we need to be careful about what's coming up. congress asked for the form, a raw readout effectively of what smirnov was telling the fbi at the time. >> raw intelligence, raw information. >> nothing that says, katy tur told me she ate this for lunch. i went to the cafeteria and confirmed that she ordered a cheese burger for lunch. none of that is included in any of these forms. it's a summary of a conversation. that is what is on these forms. >> that's why the fbi didn't want to give it to congress. they said this hadn't been vetted yet. >> hasn't been vetted yet.

huge concern number one. second concern is we get these things all the time. we're trying to protect an individual's identity. we want to make sure this information isn't out there. the question that has to be asked is, do the russians, the internet still works there, katy, do the russians look at this information and say, ah-ha, this person that we're talking to, this person, russian intelligence agencies are talking to, alexander smirnov, if we tell him something and he tells the fbi, and congress get that is information, then do we have a straight conduit to funnel our misinformation or disinformation directly through one of our chss or somebody that we're talking to directly out into the american public. >> in jim jordan's mouth. >> which apparently is something if you read these filings, something federal prosecutors, the same federal prosecutors that are prosecuting hunter biden, they are concerned this is an ongoing attempt until december of last year. >> that's what i think is so

interesting about this is the person uncovering this, and accusing smirnov of lying, of not being trust worthy, the information he's given being false and inaccurate is the guy who's prosecuting hunter biden, so it's not somebody afield. it's the guy who has been looking into this. the house judiciary and house oversight committees have said that alexander smirnov was not integral to their investigation. what was he then? >> reporter: he was. they said he was. i'm not sure what they're talking about. they held a big news conference when they got these documents. this was a big deal at the time. let me make this abundantly clear, katy. what they need to establish and their standard, they're the ones pursuing impeachment, they need to establish that joe biden took official action on behalf of burisma or somebody else and changed u.s. policy because of that. that's the standard that they

have set. that he took an official act on behalf of somebody or some entity. now, it might be unseemly that joe biden's brother is a lobbyist or fixer or whatever you want to call him, and hunter biden got on a board of a company because he was joe biden's son. you can be disgusted by our political system and money and politics. those are personal preference issues. this city is filled with people who have jobs and make money because their brother or their father or their mother or their cousin or their husband or their wife is somebody important. that might not be something that's good for good government, but that's the reality. whether hunter biden was qualified to sit on the burr residency -- burisma board, that's not illegal. that's not a high crime and

misdemeanor. the entire city is filled with those kinds of people. they have set a standard that they are going to prove, according to them, that joe biden took official acts because he was being paid by somebody. they have not gotten close to establishing that. they're not even in the arena of establishing that. >> who do they have coming up that could possibly establish that? they have james biden today, who said in his statement that nbc has obtained that joe biden had nothing to do with his contacts. he has hunter biden who's going to come on and say the same. do they have anybody that could prove them for them? anyone on tap? >> i don't think so. because there's no, you know, there's no evidence that any of this is true at this point, and also let me make a point in maybe tom would want to follow up on this, but the standard is that he'd change what was otherwise u.s. policy because he was getting paid by a foreign

entity or an individual or whatever. there's no evidence that that's true at all at this point. there's no red sirens that are flashing. and that is what the judiciary committee said they would seek to establish. >> let me ask you this, because we all, a lot of the country lives in an information silo of their choosing, and they're not necessarily hearing there's no evidence. they're just hearing the allegations, they're hearing, you know, the loud talk about how this is all going to come out and joe biden is a criminal and a crook. are you saying that the house gop right now is actually looking for evidence or are they playing politics for this election cycle? >> i think both, probably. they are probably looking for evidence. they are probably, they see this as politically advantageous. they obviously just impeached alejandro mayorkas, a trial that's going to start across the haul next week when the senate returns. everything, you know, policy cannot be divorced and anything that happens in the building cannot be divorced from politics. that's the government we have

and the legislative system that we have. >> jake sherman, tom winter, gentlemen, thank you very much. joining us now, former senior fbi official and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg. the smirnov allegations, how significant is it, chuck, for david weiss to be the one who's brought this up? >> i mean, that's part of his charge, katy. he was told to investigate hunter biden and any crimes that he comes across as a result of that investigation. so you could almost flip the question. it would be odd for him not to charge a crime if his investigators came across one. >> the attorney for hunter biden, abbe lowell said what was david weiss doing. this enjoy took him down a rabbit hole for a year. what took him so long to figure out this was bologna. >> i don't know how long it took mr. weiss to figure out this was bologna or a crime. abbe lowell can say whatever he wants. he has a client to represent, and that probably explains some of what he's saying, katy, but

investigators at the end of the day, determined that mr. smirnov had been lying to them serially over a long period of time and they charged him. >> what about the link to russian intelligence? >> important and serious, and i think tom winter made the point earlier, this is a way that russian intelligence officials can use smirnov as a conduit to get information into the public arena. by the way, that is a really unusual set of facts. the fbi ordinarily would never disclose information about an ongoing investigation, nor would they give raw reporting to the congress of the united states. giving anything to the congress of the united states is like publishing it in the newspaper. it takes seconds for congress to leak it. you're an fbi agent and i'm your source. you're my handler, i'm telling you stuff it may be true, may be false, may be a mix of those two things. you're using it for your

criminal investigation or counter intelligence investigation, the last thing you would want to do is share it with congress. once the russians saw they had a path through mr. smirnov to congress, i think they exploited it. >> the significance of david weiss specifically saying he's continuing to pedal lies that could affect not the 2020 election but the 2024 election. why include that if you're david weiss? >> yeah, i don't exactly know, unless that's the information that they've turned up. but we know actually if you go back to the mueller report, and even further back beyond that, that the russians have been looking for ways to inject, you know, sort of bad information, disinformation, misinformation into our, you know, networks, into our social circles, into our politics. >> information silos that people might be confined to. >> right. but it works. right? the russians, if you read the

mueller report were very successful at reaching a large number of people with little money spent on the effort, and so whenever they can exploit people like smirnov, and i don't mean to suggest he's a victim. smirnov allegedly lied to the fbi and ought to be prosecuted for it. but when they can exploit people like smirnov to help spread disinformation, why wouldn't they do it. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. scary stuff, interesting but scary. and while house republicans try to find a case against president biden, president biden is making a case for the house to finally fund ukraine. what alexei navalny's death is doing to the debate. and what the health system says they cannot do now that the alabama state supreme court says embryos are children. this could be a big legal

week for donald trump. what will happen to his immunity claims, his ability to be on the ballot in colorado, and his georgia trial for allegedly trying to overturn the election down there. don't go anywhere. we're back in 60 seconds. back is , nurtec odt may help. it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. gwen: hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. relief is possible. so we have a lot of questions about medicare plans. anne: we've got a lot of answers. how can i help? fran: well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? anne: how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits? gwen: i sure like the sound of that! anne: then how does a zero dollar monthly plan premium sound? gwen & fran: ooooooooh! [laughs] avo: if you're new to medicare, call 1-888-65-aetna.

we'll walk you through all your coverage and benefit options to help find the right plan for you. joining us now, democratic congressman from california, ro khanna, a member of the house oversight committee, and i have a new mic so everyone can hear me a little bit better now. congressman, thank you very much for being here. why are you not in the house right now hearing testimony from james biden? >> well, we know that nothing is going to come of that. i mean, the republicans have been on a total fishing expedition. there's not a single piece of evidence linking this to joe biden. their own caucus does not want to do anything with this, and i think this is going to be the final nail in the coffin. they need to move on. >> have you heard anything in the course of these investigations that has given you any pause? >> no, no, i mean, what's given

me pause is you have an oversight committee that should be working on how we lower prices for the american people, inflation, what republicans keep talking about or the economy, but all they have been doing is taking political shots at the president. you have heard their own witnesses say there's not a case for impeachment. you have had people testifying who have done business with hunter biden and james biden. republican witnesses saying president biden was not involved in any way. and then they have this big thing that president biden gave a loan of $200,000 to james biden. i said i don't know if i'd give a $200,000 loan to my brother. it speaks to the president's character. he's a family person, and you're trying to take someone who is a human being, who's a caring father, who's a caring brother, and politicize that. >> do you see them shutting this investigation down at any point, especially after the news that the key witness, their confidential human source with the great corroborating evidence that jim jordan said last month,

turns out, according to david weiss, to be a liar. >> turns out to be a liar. turns out to possibly, allegedly have information coming from the russians, who's going to jail. the only person who has been implicated in all of this is their actual witness. if that's not a reason to dismiss this, i don't know what is it. >> there's a lot coming up in the house. do you expect there to be a deal in the house that puts this off for a year instead of another couple of months or couple of weeks? >> i do. i do think that mike johnson wants to at least keep the government open. that's what he's done the last couple of times this has come up. there was a deal between mccarthy and biden. i think we're going to end up in the same place. we have had a lot of trauma for the country unnecessarily for seven months. >> the president really wants the house to pass the ukraine security bill, the bill that came from the senate, got stripped away of the immigration stuff, which was a big loss for

anybody who was looking for immigration reform in this country. that's what they say. and now it just has the security stuff. do you expect that house speaker mike johnson is going to take that up? do you expect that his position on russia has changed at all now that he's a member of the gang of eight and is getting the most secretive information you can about what's going on around the world? >> it should have changed. i mean, here's what's sad. it would pass with 300 votes aid to ukraine. can you imagine that you have a republican party where you've got putin marching into ukraine. taking territory. assassinating a political opponent, and you've got the republican party saying no, let's be weak on russia. let's not do anything. this is a matter of life and death for ukraine who have struggled so desperately, so hard over the year and a half, two months their artillery would run out. we would be handling putin,

luhansk, you've got to arm ukraine. >> has the alexei navalny death changed anything, changed the conversation, the discourse? >> i don't know how much of an impact it's had on the extreme republican caucus members who don't want to do it. among members on the armed services committee, the china select committee where i serve, yes, it has. people on the china select committee realize if we don't stand up to putin, how are we going to stand up to xi jinping. what are we going to say if he invades taiwan, we'll give you a corner of taiwan, and that's fine. the serious republicans get it. it would have 300 votes. johnson should put it up for a vote. >> congressman ro khanna, always good to have you here in person. thank you for coming to new york. >> thank you. do gop voters like vladimir putin as much as donald trump does? what is driving not just trump's kind words for russia, but congressional republicans'

refusal to aid ukraine. first, though, is ivf the next victim of the abortion fight? as many predicted frozen embryos are at issue. what the alabama supreme court said about them and which other states might follow. follow. so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled.

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navalny is a very sad situation, very brave guy because he went

back. he could have stayed away, and frankly probably would have been a lot better off staying away and talking from outside the country, as opposed to having to go back in, people thought it could happen. it's a horrible thing. it's happening in our country too. we are turning into a communist country in many ways. if you look at it, i'm the leading candidate. i never heard of being indicted before. >> former president donald trump used to be an outlier in his affinity toward vladimir putin but is he any longer or is it now embedded in the party itself? they have slow walked funding for ukraine as you have been seeing. they have replaced rush russia with china as the top global threat in hearing after hearing, and have accepted or down played trump's anti-nato comments. as we watch the lawmakers align themselves with donald trump and with russia, we've got to wonder whose lead are they following. are these lawmakers following donald trump or are they following voters. chicken or the egg scenario here. joining us now, former rnc

communications director and political organization consultant, doug hie. so what's the deal? russia used to be a global threat. vladimir putin used to be, you know, an adversary. what's going on? >> he still is, and katy, unfortunately i'm old enough to remember ronald reagan's policies and some of his campaigns. i remember his speech in 1988 at the republican convention, taunting democrats for saying finally running on russia. ronald reagan is probably spun around in his grave a few times looking at where the republican party has gone. it's not a question really of policy, although there are certainly policy implications. what we see is they are blindly following trump, and ultimately doing so because donald trump isn't necessarily instead of policy prescriptions, he's an attitude, and certainly one that his most fervent supporters

speak loudly in congressional districts. >> they say vladimir putin is not the enemy. donald trump's affinity towards vladimir putin is echoed by them. is it because donald trump did it. is that why they're saying it? or does it go deeper than that. i'm going to ask you about something that anne applebaum said she believes in terms of the republican party. she says, i think the conservative party's romance with russia has grown quite a bit deeper. this is a party that is profoundly critical of the united states. it doesn't like the diverse society that we have become. it doesn't like immigration. doesn't like the kind of national conversation we have. and ironically, like the left of a previous generation, they've imagined that a better, ideal version of our society exists in russia. a kind of white christian nation, unified beneath a single leader without all the messy, ugly democracy, and all of these different kinds of people, and that's, i think, one of the roots of their admiration. do you think anne has got it right? >> well, look, one, anne is

somebody who i read pretty much everything she writes, and always find it very deep and insightful. russia's obviously not a christian nation, and if we look at what is happening specifically in ukraine, a lot of it, and this is something that republicans should be talking about more, a lot of what is happening is a targeting and persecution of christians in ukraine. it's an orchestrated campaign by putin. he is ransacking churches, killing priests. if you talk to republican voters about the christian persecution in ukraine, they do respond to that as an issue. it's something republicans haven't talked about enough, and should talk about a lot more. >> so then why are lawmakers on the hill slow walking aid to ukraine? why are they dodging questions when reporters ask them about donald trump saying to vladimir putin that he can do whatever he wants to nato countries that he says haven't paid enough. why are they bending towards

russia instead of standing up to russia like they had been in years past, even when donald trump was president. >> this is a conversation i have had over e-mail with anne apple balm in the past few weeks. a few things on this. one, what we see with republicans is they haven't heard enough of these arguments. and that's, one, what i just mentioned about christian persecution in ukraine. two, how much of this money is being spent for ukraine is being spent here in the united states. republicans need to hear that over and over again. and the other component is very simply an adherence to donald trump. republicans learn, and they learn it one at a time, quite often, that donald trump is loyal to you up to a point. when you cross donald trump, you face his ire and you face the ire of your republican voters as well. they want to avoid that at all costs, as we've seen, i think, time and time again. it's why this is being slow walked. >> and mike johnson is now a part of the gang of eight, as i mentioned before. he's seeing our highest level intelligence all around the world, and also when it comes to

russia. i'm sure that he's seen the latest intelligence regarding russia's weapons in space, targeting u.s. satellites, which was all the talk last week. do you expect mike johnson, now that he is speaker, now that he has access to the information will change his tune on the ukraine funding bill? >> i hope he does, it's something i've spoken to his office about. we also know if he doesn't, the mechanism that is often talked about called the discharge petition, that's a lengthy process. it sounds very simple. getting through the process is time consuming and difficult to do. it's why it doesn't happen very often. i think there's nothing that congress could do that is better for global stability than ukraine funding. but the reality is even though that is important and is basically popular amongst voters, it's not a core issue. when families come home from the grocery store, they talk about how much they spent. they don't talk about global world security or anything like that. it just doesn't rank high on the list of voter issues.

>> doug hie, that's a good point, doug, thank you very much. and still ahead, let's talk more about families. can families still freeze their embryos, and what can they do with the ones that aren't likely viable? an alabama couple joins me to tell us what the state supreme court ruling means for them specifically. specifically

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this election is about who shares your values. let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. the alabama state supreme

court ruled on friday that embryos have the same legal rights as children. and today, in the aftermath, the university of alabama at birmingham's hospital system says it is pausing its ivf program. it's just too legally dangerous, the hospital says. quote, we must evaluate the potential that our patients and our physicians could be prosecuted criminally or face punitive damages for following the standard of care for ivf treatments. joining us now, professor of constitutional law at georgetown law school and author of policing the womb, invisible women and the criminalization of mother hood, michelle goodwin, thank you for being here. how far reaching is this ruling? >> well, it's important to know that this is a state supreme court decision. it's not a decision that's come out of a federal court that would reach across the country. it's not a decision before the united states supreme court, but that said, it's deeply alarming for families, for individuals in the state of alabama,

individuals who are infertile, individuals who are lgbtq, individuals who have had difficult, families who have had difficulty with building their families. this poses enormous risks, and it poses risks to clinics that are in alabama but have other clinics in other states. you know, when we think about wrongful death in this context and the ability to bring litigation against a clinic, it also reaches to individuals, and here's what's frightening about this decision. but it's not sci fi, which is that it risks individuals who have menstruation as potentially having wrongfully terminated an embryo. and there have been lawmakers for some time that have sought to instantuate a kind of quality between embryos having some form of a constitutional right, and there have been legislatures who said an embryo should have a

constitutional right, and those constitutional rights are similar to those that women have. this can be a very dangerous path of what it is that we're seeing with this particular decision. it definitely exposes the pro natalism that we see just writ large in this country. particularly in states that have passed anti-abortion measures. >> was the intention of this decision to basically stop ivf from happening? i know the case was initially brought by families who had done ivf and whose embryos were frozen and then destroyed on accident by somebody at the clinics, and they brought basically a homicide case against them saying that you've killed our babies, and we want there to be consequences, and then this decision came out to say the embryos have the same rights as legal children. correct me if i got any of that wrong. was it the intention?

it doesn't sound like it was the intention of the people who brought the case in the first place. >> that's the question. it gets to the heart of the time we're in. the alabama supreme court prior to this decision a few years ago had ruled in a different case with law that did not match where the supreme court was looking to go, a case that involved a child engagement statute passed in the state of alabama, which had never been intended to be applied against pregnant women in that state. however, some prosecutors in the state of alabama, including the person who's now the attorney general in the state began a process of prosecuting pregnant women based on allegations that they had used elicit drugs during their pregnancy. nothing to do with embryos, nothing to do with fetuses. it was a law intended to protect children whose parents might turn their homes into meth labs. these prosecutions specifically targeted pregnant women who later on were forced to take

plea deals of 10, 15, 20 years, and in a case challenging the law, the alabama supreme court about five or six years ago ruled there was no difference between a child and a fetus, no difference between a fetus and a nonviable fetus, which was extraordinary, and one might see this case as building upon prior alabama supreme court precedent. >> is this the sort of thing that's going to go to the supreme court eventually, the full supreme court? >> it very well might because to your point, the people who brought this litigation were probably not at all seeking assistive reproductive technologies or ivf to be shut down. there's much at stake now because there are individuals who are also part of the anti-abortion movement that identify themselves as pro-life, who like ivf, who like assistive reproductive technology. they see this as being part of a building and growing family. even within the anti-abortion movement, there may well be sects of people in communities

that would find this incredibly alarming coming out of alabama because even amongst anti-abortion individuals, they too want to be able to build their families, and they have embraced these technologies and innovations that allow them to do so. but this has been a kind of train wreck in some ways waiting to happen just given the, you know, passions, if you will, of the anti-abortion movement that has long divorced itself now from health and science, and from really what americans want in terms of how they think about building their own families. >> michelle goodwin, thank you very much for joining us. i know it's a complicated decision. but it does have potentially far reaching effects, and certainly immediate effects for couples in the state of alabama, and we're going to talk to one of those couples in a moment. michelle, thank you. coming up, an alabama couple going through the ivf process joins me. what the ruling now means for them. and will he be disqualified

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viable pregnancy, and finally a child. the alabama couple was supposed to freeze the embryos that tested genetically normal. but now they're don't know if they're going to be able to. joining us now, gabriele and spencer. thank you very much, gabriele and spencer. let's talk about where you are right now. gabbie, you started your hormone injections on friday, the same day as the decision, right? >> that's correct. i started my stimulation medication on friday. so i'll take my sixth round of shots tonight. >> so what is your clinic telling you about going forward? i know uab is saying they're going to still freeze eggs, they'll still freeze sperm, but they're not actually making the embryo, they're not going to fertilize the egg and make the potential baby because they think that that's just too legally risky. >> yeah, so after i saw the uab decision, i reached out to my clinic, i wanted to know. i asked for some comforting words to make sure that we were

still good to go ahead with our process, and they just said we have to take it day by day. it wasn't the most comforting, but i understand that they're really worried and they don't know what's going to happen either. >> can you tell me why you decided to pursue ivf? >> we really want a family. we've known since we got married that we want children, and this is our best shot. after a year of trying, really two years of trying, we just feel like this is our only option. >> what do you say to somebody who says that every embryo that is -- every egg that's fertilized, every embryo is a human life, is a child and enjoys the same rights? what do you say to them when you are arguing that you need to do the genetic testing to make sure that that embryo is viable? >> i would say that it sounds really good on paper when you read that an embryo is a child.

that doesn't sound like it would be harmful. but take a look at the aftermath and how this is going to affect women. i feel for every woman at uab who had to stop mid cycle this process. and it's harming people more than it is helping. and i would just take a look at what is happening now. >> what do you think is behind the decision to categorize this? >> i think they meant well. i think it's just the -- i don't know, maybe spencer can -- >> i think it's just a thoughtless decision. being so committed to this idea of being pro life that they're not thinking about how a decision like this affects people trying to start families. i mean, i don't think there's any, well, i don't think there's

a substantial number of people in america against ivf. so it's just confusing. >> do you feel supported? do you feel like this country wants you to have a baby? >> i don't feel supported. we felt supported when we first moved to alabama. we recently relocated, and we really have enjoyed our community and our friends here. and i feel now a little hurt by the warm alabamaians i have met. i feel like they're kind of turning their backs on us. >> what are you guys going to do if it turns out that your clinic won't be able to follow through with ivf. could you go to another state? could you move if you wanted to? >> move, but we have called another clinic in georgia in hopes that we could possibly transfer over there. we're really afraid of what could happen if our clinic decides to stop.

>> and that's one of the things that hurts so much. we don't want to move. we really like it here. it's sostraing to have this feeling that people in our own community would be against us starting a family. >> i can hear it in your voice. it's a difficult decision to pursue if. it's not a cheap decision. it can be painful. emotionally disruptive as well. and i can only imagine this is making it that much harder. thank you for joining us. i do appreciate you coming on in what is is a scary and super vulnerable time. >> thank you. coming up next, let's talk about legal cases that are coming up this week. don't go nurse. coming up this week. don't go nurse alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything? what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike.

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. last week as you saw,s was a whopper of a week for donald trump legally. and this week could be too. in d.c. the supreme court could hand down its decision on whether to allow colorado to disqualify him from the ballot. it could also decide to take up the issue of immunity or let the d.c. appeals court decision stand. and in georgia, the judge could tell us whether da fani willis is still fit to prosecute the georgia election interference case. joining us now is former assistant district attorney at the manhattan district attorney's office is katherine christian. she's also an msnbc legal analyst. we were watching fani willis' testimony last week. where does that currently stand? what's your perception, your expectation of how the judge will rule there? >> my perception from watching the hearing is that the defense did not do what they were supposed to do, which is prove

that there's an actual conflict of interest, to prove that the district attorney acquired a personal interest or stake in the defendant's conviction, to prove that she is derived a financial benefit from her relationship with wade that would undermine a fair trial. i don't think that on the basis of what we have seen that the district attorney should be disqualified by the judge. i don't know whether he's going to do that in a decision. he probably won't do it from the bench, put he might. he will allow closing arguments from both sides to give their last remaining arguments, but i don't think this qualification of her, which actually would means disqualification of the entire office, is going to occur. not on a basis of what we saw at that hearing. >> let me ask you about the supreme court. we are waiting for two big decisions from the supreme court. one on colorado and whether that state can continue to disqualify donald trump from the ballot. i think it was pretty clear where the justices were leaning, but you tell me what you saw.

>> i think most observers think that trump will be on ballot in colorado and all the other states. just from justice kagan who said why should colorado make this decision for the entire country. i think the waiting is the the hardest part, but the decision will be he gets to be on that ballot. >> let's talk about immunity. this is the big what if. donald trump has filed his brief. the special counsel has filed his. the d.c. court of appeals said that donald trump in no way has immunity. they scoffed at it. it waseviscerating language to say that donald trump is a man like anyone else and the law applies to him. the supreme court, have they done so far and is what can they do next? >> they have asked for jack smith to submit his response. the trump team the submit their response. now it's the waiting. the waiting is the hardest part. this is split.

some say that they won't take the care because the opinion was unanimous. there's nothing more to add. others say are you kidding me, this involved a former president of the united states. of course, they are going to take the case because they want to have the last word. it's reading tea leaves to determine when they are going to make their decision. until they do, that case is not going to trial any time soon. >> can we read those tea leaves? there's some arguments out there that they are going to come down on the colorado case and say he can be on the ballot and they are setting themselves up to rule against him on immunity. giving themselves a split decision to try to stay out of the partisan fray. >> i believe that will happen, but will it happen so we're not going to hear the case or them taking the case and them saying the d.c. circuit was right. there's no presidential immunity for former president for crimes committed when he was president. >> so the d.c. circuit is right. then the judge can get it back on the schedule and we'll see when she would put it on the schedule.

but if they do take it up, do you expect oral arguments would be quick? >> they can do it. they can expedite this. if you remember bush v. gore. the election was november and the decision was a month later. so if they take the case, how quickly it moves it on the supreme court. they can expedite the briefing schedule. they can can expedite the oral arguments and the decision. if they don't, this trial is not happening. >> the waiting is the hardest part. if you're donald trump's team, you love the waiting because delay, delay, delay has been their tactic. thank you very much. always good to have you. and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 here in new york. what we on this program like to call earth two, the world