great to see you. i'm leaving through esquire magazine, what do i see but a profile of the reverend al sharpton, amazing. look at this, look at the shot, all of it. >> i love it. >> i have to give credit to rachel nord linger, who for 25 years has handled communications for us. >> rachel is so good. >> rachel is great. she said this reporter wants to do a profile. he wants to travel with you, and i didn't want to do it. he went to funerals with me, my ra rallies. even went town to edgefield, south carolina, where my great grandfather was a slave, and he wrote 12 pages. he gives the good and the bad. he talks about how i worked with coretta scott king and how i know mike barnicle. he told it all. i give rachel credit. it's a great story. 12 pages. >> the redemption of al sharpton it's titled, mika. >> oh, that's fabulous.

all right, what a fraet great way to end, and guess what, i have great news, get ready, t.j., alex witt is up next. i'm so excited. alex witt picks up the coverage right now. >> and congratulations, rev. >> go alex. >> very cool to have friends in high places. right now on msnbc, sos messages, no cell service for thousands of americans this morning. we're going to have the latest on the coast to coast outages and why it's raising serious safety concerns. the final two days before the south carolina primary, donald trump dominating the field if the polls are to be believed, but catching heat not just from democrats but members of his own party. we're going to tell you who in just a moment. and later, signs of hope in the middle east. a top israeli official says there is potential movement for a hostage deal. coming up, i'll talk to congressman adam smith who's in the region and spoke with benjamin netanyahu.

♪♪ it is a minute past 10:00 a.m. eastern, i'm alex witt in for ana cabrera reporting from new york. we begin with two days to go in south carolina. while polls show donald trump is clear and away the front runner in the republican primary, he's not just taking hits from nikki haley or president biden, his likely opponent in november. now he is also getting heat from a former rival, ron desantis, who of course endorsed him last month offering candid and critical concerns about trump on a private call with supporters. "the new york times" reporting he told them he's concerned about all the baggage trump has weighing him down with voters in the fall. let's bring in nbc news correspondent dasha burns who's at the conservative cpac summit where president trump is slated to speak later this week. msnbc's yasmin vossoughian is joining us from michigan, republican strategist rick tyler joins us as well, and former democratic congressman from new york max rose here in studio.

welcome all four of you. dasha, at this point, trump has won the first two contests. he's got a huge lead in south carolina, but if desantis, who again has endorsed him, is still being this critical, does that signify trouble, and could we see that play out where you are at cpac? >> reporter: i think at this point in the short-term, alex, signifies more trouble for desantis than trump. the trump team is already back to bashing him pretty hard. this is something we play out last year. they kind of made peace when he e endorsed him, and now the rift is out this public once again. in the primary it's not an issue. for the general election, though, some of the concerns that desantis brought up are the concerns of not just democratic voters who are not going to vote for trump but some republicans as well. he brought up the issues of baggage with all the legal problems. in the primary, that lifted him up. that helped him gain ground. in the general election, that is going to be a more difficult problem to contend with as he's

trying to win over some more moderate and independent voters. but here at cpac you got the south carolina primary. here at cpac, the primary is over. this is the trump show. it was the trump show even last year when there were more contenders in the race this time around. it's all about the former president. you're going to have several of the potential veep stakes contenders as well that are going to be speaking on the stage. they're going to be going on offense for the former president and trying to catch some attention from him and his team. so you've got a bit of a split screen with what's going on in south carolina and what's going on at cpac. >> dasha, real quickly, given that this does run into the weekend, will nikki haley be making an appearance? is she expected to take the stage? >> reporter: right now is there no nikki haley on the schedule. you've got byron donald, elise stefanik, ben carson, again, vivek ramaswamy. some vp contenders.

this is trump territory. >> interesting. okay. rick, first of all, what do you make of that? and also the fact that desantis's timing with these comments, why is he doing this now? >> well, first of all, cpac used to be a conservative conference, now i think it stands for cult people attending conference. >> right. >> there's no reason for trump to even be here. he's already won the republican nomination. he should be convincing people who have decided not to vote for trump over biden. i have to believe desantis knew what he was doing. he was on a call with at least 100 people, it was a video conference call, it could easily have been reported and shared, which it was. that's fine. i don't know what his objectives were there. i don't think that -- i think that he's counting himself out of the vp race, which says a lot meaning i don't think he wants to be part of a trump administration. and then you have to just believe who would be in a trump

administration and who would be. and that's what cpac is now all about. it's about this contest for who gets the vice presidency. i don't know who would want it, but there you go. >> okay. so congressman, to you now, nikki haley not attending, what did he say cult people attending conference, that makes sense there. she says she's not going anywhere, that would include that conference. she has been hitting the scene pretty hard that no one wants a biden/trump rematch. let's take a listen to what she said. >> we have to look at the fact that 70% of americans don't want a trump/biden rematch. they're the two most disliked politicians in america. >> so if she stays in long enough, does this have a chance of gaining traction. >> no and it doesn't have a chance of gaining traction, of course, because it's a two-party system.

whoever else wants anything different and what nikki haley has demonstrated in primary after primary after primary, is that she is struggling with one key demographic, which is republican primary voters, and that certainly is going to be the case in her home state. what is awfully quirky about this situation, though, even though no one -- and there's no poll that will show her winning virtually any primary, she's not having a money problem. normally when a politician is in this, they lose money. >> what does that tell you? that there are people who want her to stay in. >> oh, absolutely. and this is the tragedy and the difficulty and the challenge of the republican party right now because there's this gigantic schism between what the republican primary base wants, which is maga all the way and what that very large moderate middle wants, some of whom are actually republicans, many of whom are independents and some of whom are swing democrats, and they don't want anything to do

with donald trump. that's why donald trump's running through these primaries and is going to struggle so significantly with the general electorate. think about this, nikki haley's financial supporters, some of whom have donated to biden, have donated significant amounts to biden. imagine in 2020 if a bunch of biden supporters swung in -- or excuse me, trump supporters swung in for joe biden or swung in for bernie sanders. you can't fathom that because he has locked down the democratic party from primary voters through to moderates. it's a much more unified party than the republicans. >> yasmin who's joining us from michigan, dearborn specifically, talking to voters ahead of tuesday's primaries. protesters have been very loud against joe biden's support for israel. as "the new york times" has put it, michigan's combination of an early primary, a large and politically active arab american

population, progressive students on college campuses and the option of a protest vote have raised the stakes of what has otherwise been a sleepy election in the state. so what are the voters telling you, yaz? >> reporter: there's a new poll out, alex, 45 to 41 in which the former president is leading joe biden right now in michigan. biden has a problem, alex, in michigan, with the voters that i've been speaking to. these are all folks that voted for biden in 2020. they have committed to voting uncommitted in the michigan primary next tuesday, and two of them are very much on the fence in voting for him for re-election in november. the other two absolutely will not be voting for him. they're angry about gaza. they are angry he has not called for a permanent cease fire as of yet, and they're angry that he has not come through on the promises he made when he was running for president back in 2020. let's take a listen, alex, to some of what they said and how

they think or they believe l biden could possibly make up their vote between now and november? >> is there a pathway forward for you with biden? >> oh, absolutely not. you cannot keep killing people with our money and just keep thinking that, oh, we are stupid enough to elect you again because we will fall in line, we will forget. how can -- like this is an insult to me as a voter. >> for you biden has a pathway forward. >> biden has a pathway forward. >> what does that look like? >> that is him calling for a permanent, immediate cease fire. the straightforward simple answer for the biden administration is push for a cease fire, stop aiding israel in their war crimes, and i guarantee you there are enough people who would be willing to deal with it and vote for the man. it is in so many words insane to me to have the democratic party

and the biden administration sit here and essentially say if trump happens, it's your fault. >> if you don't want a trump presidency then, are you not worried about what he could do domestically to this country? >> you know, it's like a vaccine. i'm willing to take short-term pain for a long-term gain. i'm willing to let go of joe biden and oppose joe biden, make him a one-term president, punish joe biden by making him a one-term president and pairing his loss with the genocide in gaza. >> why does our democracy, why is having a trump presidency more important than those people's lives? why is our democracy more important than thousands of men, women, and children being killed? >> reporter: so it's interesting, it's not like they're saying we're not going to vote for joe biden and instead we're going to be voting for donald trump. that is not at all what they're saying. right?

instead of saying we are in this position in more of a big picture sense because of the democratic party, right? they're like you haven't delivered the way in which we want. you're not listening to us, and we are sick of the political system in this country because of all of that, so this for them is kind of a warning shot saying it's time to change. it's time for something to change in this country. >> yaz, the third gentleman with whom you spoke talked about the short-term pain for the long-term gain and said that he'd be willing to vote out joe biden. he does fully realize what that means, right? if we've got joe biden and donald trump, he's willing to elect donald trump. >> reporter: he fully realized. i challenged him on that. i talked to him about that. he fully realizes what that means chts these voters are saying it's not on us.

this is not our responsibility. this is the fault of the two-party system in the country. it's the fault of the democratic party if the not producing the candidates we want and not following through on the issues we feel like they need to be falling through on. if we have to go through this kind of short-term pain of another trump presidency, that's what needs to happen as they see it to break the system because they have slept through so many election cycles in which they see as choosing the lesser of two evils, and they're exhausted, and that is what i'm hearing most from voters here in michigan. >> so last question to you, you just said listening to that tape, what does this portend to you? how concerning is? michigan is a very important state. it potentially could run neck in neck there. you have rashida tlaib the michigan congresswoman who's saying what yasmin is talking about with these voters, saying,

hey, don't vote for biden specifically. send this message. but sending that message now, what are the dangers of that? >> so first of all, the biden campaign and the administration certainly acknowledges the political significance of this situation. that's why they sent deputy national security adviser john finer to do extended meetings in michigan with these communities. we shouldn't forget about the fact that this is february. and so -- if this was -- >> there's time, you think. >> there's time for the campaign and the administration to address this, and what i would virtually guarantee is every biden supporter or former biden supporter who is a part of this coalition is sending this message in such an ardent way right now because they are hoping to reach some form of consensus. you're going to see that start to play out. there's a lot that's going to

change. this is just raw politics. this isn't a commentary on the conflict itself. the biden campaign will not ignore this issue and their voices, and you will certainly see them making very, very concerted efforts to mend some of these divisions and bring their coalition back together. >> can we go back quickly to you, yasmin, if you're still there, and just get you to react to what the congressman just said? >> reporter: congressman, i don't mean to put you on the spot here. it's interesting because some of the points you just brought up, they came up at the table. this idea of timing. the president has said this, there's time to make up the difference between now and november, and they have sent an entourage of people. they've sent folks from the white house to respond to some of these concerns in michigan. the president came himself when it came to uaw. he has not yet come to address the issue at hand with the arab americans, the muslim american community and young voters in michigan. one, that is something that they want. the other thing is they're

saying the time is now. it's not now or november. the time is now because what they're asking for specifically in the arab american community, the muslim american community and these young voters is they're wanting real action when it comes to gaza. this time making up, and sending these entourage of folks that are part of the white house, it's not necessarily in my view from what i'm hearing from these folks, maing much of a difference. >> wow. really quickly, let's say things get much better, are they not going to be able to forget what happened in gaza when it comes to voing in november and thus vote their conscience that way? >> so the two guys on the end, both young voters, they said there is a possibility to make up that vote, right? if the president were to call for an immediate cease fire, for instance, and really put time and thought, energy and money into creating a two-state solution in that area and

helping rebuild. that's how they feel now. the two in the middle said there's no redemption, they're not doing it. great conversation, we are so out of time so we have to go. thank you to you all, appreciate you all. are you one of the thousands of americans who may have lost cell phone this morning? we're going to have more on the reports of outages. plus a crazy sob, president biden's words for vladimir putin and how the kremlin is reacting. and an in depth report ab the fight to save gaza's babies. and a chilling effect for irf, the ramifications of alabama's supreme court ruling that frozen embryos are children. we're back in 60 seconds. we're back in 60 seconds it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain.

relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. 17 past, with the breaking news this morning as a widespread cell phone outage silenced calls across america. more than 70,000 outages have been reported with at&t's network seeing the most

disruption, and some cities raising alarms that 911 calls are not going through. nbc's business and data correspondent brian cheung is joining us with more on this. this is pretty serious, brian. do you have an idea, first of all, what caused this and how soon it will be fixed? >> an unwelcomed development this morning with many thousands of users on at&t experiencing issues making calls. so we don't know what the cause of this was. at&t provided a statement where they said they're working on it. they're advising users to use wi-fi calling in the meantime, but there's no explanation for this outage, which as of just a few minutes ago are affecting about 70,000 users at the moment. they're working urgently to restore service to them. one issue is that when it comes to at&t, it's a huge network. they're the largest wireless carrier in the country. i've been hearing anecdotally from people on social media that it's not just impacting the major cities in new york and chicago and los angeles, but it's also impacting rural areas

as well. in fact, i was on the "today" show this morning, and even hoda kotb was having issues with her phone. whether or not at&t can get on this quickly, we'll have to see. thousands of users unable to make phone calls on at&t. it is impacting 911 services as well. they're advising do not try to call 911 to test if it works. that's going to choke up their systems. some jurisdictions actually saying they're experiencing that this morning, alex. >> that is a really good point, don't try to call to test it. the tensions between the u.s. and russia are growing with new comments from the president overnight. president biden in private fundraiser called vladimir putin a crazy s.o.b. the kremlin firing back that those congressmens debased america. it comes as the u.s. prepares for major new sanctions against russia in the aftermath of the death of alexei navalny. those sanctions expected to be

announced tomorrow. turning to the israel-hamas war where israeli officials are expressing optimism over a potential hostage and cease fire deal. benny gantz saying there were attempts to promote a new outline. those negotiations are underway as an offensive into rafah looms and as the death toll in gaza claims. my colleague nbc's erin mclaughlin is joining us with a special report on the story for survival with some of the most vulnerable in gaza, those premature babies. it's something i remember at the start of the war that we were talking about when you had a group of i think 39 babies all premature needing evacuation. talk about what you have found and where some of these babies are. you're following four i understand? >> that's right. they're known as the babies of al-shifa. i was reporting the story back in november.

more than three dozen babies were trapped in al-shifa hospital. at the time the military was alleging it was also being exploited by hamas as a command center. the israeli military had surrounded the hospital cutting it off from food, water, electricity, fuel needed for the babies' incubators. eventually the babies were evacuated, six though tragically died, but the rest did make it out. we followed four of the babies, three into just a minute. one baby stayed behind in gaza. it was his family's choice and it was a difficult one. take a listen.

>> baby anas's parents rushed to the hospital hoping their son was among the rescued infants. they scanned list of names and there he was, anas. >> many of the al-shifa babies were suffering from dehydration, sepsis, and hypothermia. with gaza's health care system overwhelmed, it was decided they would go to egypt for treatment. they were faced with an impossible choice, keep baby anas with them in a war zone or send him to egypt where he'd be safer. because only mothers were allowed to accompany the babies across the border, they chose to stay together. ogether.

>> reporter: at this point they were sheltering in a school in khan yunis. yunis >> reporter: most of the al-shifa babies were sent to egypt for care. two of those babies are noor

albana's twin daughters. they were born premature before the war. now they're al-shifa survivors. noor is a new mom. the baby in the incubator is her daughter leen. noor has never touched her daughter until now. now >> her twin sister leanne is being treated in another part of the hospital. leanne is strong enough for her mother to hold her. >> did you think this moment would be possible?

>> noor is the only mother here. >> when you see this row of babies without moms, what goes through your mind? >> and an update on baby anas, he and his family are currently at a tent encampment in rafah, and his father tells us that anas is sick. he has a treatable condition, a hernia that could easily in any other country receive surgery, but because the hospitals are overwhelmed in southern gaza, they have been turned away and the family doesn't know what to do. >> can i just quickly tell viewers i was saying to you as you had spoken earlier in the piece about how the mother could have gone. this family has seven children now. a mother just can't get up and leave to go and accompany her child. extraordinary. >> that's perhaps why so many of

those babies went to egypt alone. we're working to find the families. fife more mothers have come forward to claim their babies in cairo. >> it's an important and very touching story. thank you very much, erin mclaughlin for bringing it to us. >> you can watch the full documentary "the babies of al-shifa: the fight to save gaza's youngest". i want to bring in congressman adam smith, ranking member of the armed services committee. he joins us from jordan after spending the week in the middle east with stops in israel as well as at the rafah crossing. congressman, welcome. let me ask you what you want americans to know about what you have seen and heard at rafah. >> well, a couple things. i mean, first of all, there is an urgent need to get more humanitarian assistance into gaza. and the biden administration in particular has been working with everybody involved to do that to open up the corridors to

pressure israel to open more corridors, and crucially working on getting a peace agreement to get a cease fire in exchange basically for the release of the hostages. that continues to be a significant issue. so working very hard on the humanitarian corridor, and then long-term, you know, finding a solution that has a future for the palestinian people. look, we should not minimize, you know, what hamas did or the ongoing threat that hamas poses to israel. and frankly, that hamas poses to the palestinian people. i mean, they choose to embed themselves in hospitals and with the civilian population, to embed military, sorry, to embed their militants and weapons and all of that, placing the population at enormous risk. so there's got to be a future going forward for the palestinian people. israel needs to recognize that. we were in israel yesterday and, actually, they did vote to

recognize the some sort of self-governance for the palestinian people should go forward. they emphasized they didn't want it imposed from the outside, but they've got to work forward on that and open more humanitarian aid. when we were at the rafah crossing there was considerable frustration about the arbitrary way israeli officials seemed to be blocking certain aid from getting into gaza. >> you also met with the prime minister netanyahu, what did you hear from him, and any concerns you share with what transpired during your conversation? what did you want to share with him? >> one of the things we heard from everybody in israel that we met yesterday is, they really feel like the world doesn't appreciate what october 7th meant to them, that it basically -- they set up israel after the holocaust because they were going to have a place where they could be safe after being driven out of country after country over the course of hundreds of years culminating in the horror of the holocaust.

they had a place where they could feel safe. after october 7th they don't. they don't feel safe. they see the threat, and they have reacted very emotionally to that, but also from a straightforward way to say, look, hamas is this incredible threat. something has to be done to reduce that threat. now, what we have seen in the last week is a softening of that position, both on the humanitarian aid, on the willingness to consider humanitarian pause in the conflict, if they can get the hostages back. but look, israel's in a very, very emotional place right mow in terms of how they feel threatened by hamas, and they feel like the world doesn't care about that. and it's moved away from the struggle that they face. >> to what extent did benjamin netanyahu indicate to you, sir, that he has taken to heart what president biden has conveyed to him, which is you must have an

evacuation plan and get going on it for those million plus palestinians in rafah before leading any sort of military charge there. >> yeah, it's really hard to say. i mean, i can say he certainly said that there was going to be no campaign in rafah before they gave the civilians a chance to get out, okay? he said that. you know, what his definition of that is versus what the international community would like to see, you know, we'll have to find out because the other piece of that, giving the civilians a chance to get out of rafah is fine, but they have to have somewhere to go, and there has to be a humanitarian corridor set up with aid and support somewhere else in gaza. and, you know, let me just emphasize the biden administration, every single piece of it, certainly the ambassador jack lew, jake sullivan, secretary blinken, the president himself, they have been pushing israel to do more to allow for those humanitarian

corridors and to open up aid into gaza. they have been emphasizing that and pushing israel to do more on that front. but you know, we will see going forward. the hope and what we're really striving for right now is -- and i know everyone wants a permanent cease fire, but a temporary cease fire could at least give an opportunity for a better humanitarian aid system to get into gaza, could give civilians a better chance to be protected. i think, i know that's what the biden administration is pushing for. again, it does come back to the hostages. the hostages' pictures are everywhere and it is an incredibly emotional thing for the israeli people to get those hostages back. >> absolutely. >> i think those two things need to go together. >> congressman adam smith from jordan, thank you so much for your time. and safe travels home, new fallout from alabama's supreme court ruling quoting the bible and saying frozen embryos are children. the chilling effect it's already

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today in alabama, confusion and delays for some people who were hoping to become parents. the state's largest hospital says it is stopping all ivf procedures after a controversial court ruling found frozen embryos should be considered children. fearing it could face lawsuits or even prosecution for normally routine procedures, of course.

we have nbc's senior legal correspondent laura jarrett who's joining us with more. so where has this left couples who want to have children? >> they are essentially in legal purgatory in no man's land. this court decision in alabama all started with a family that was devastated about losing their frozen embryos that dropped on the floor, and they were destroyed sadly, but nowics vf is on track to be completely ended in the state of alabama because of how the court decided that case raising all kinds of questions well beyond alabama about what this means for the future of fertility treatments. >> this morning outcry in alabama, the state's largest hospital stopping all ivf procedures fearing a lawsuit after controversial court ruling has patients angry and confused. >> my rage knows no bounds. >> reporter: the university of alabama at birmingham announcing it's pausing all ivf treatments saying it's saddened as it

evaluates the potential that our patients and physicians could be prosecuted criminally or face punitive damages. abby crane, a patient at uab has frozen embryos she wanted to use soon. >> i don't know what's next. i don't know if i need to be calling an out of state doctor. not knowing is scary. >> reporter: the result of an unprecedented ruling from the alabama supreme court last week finding people can be sued for destroying frozen embryos. the court concludes embryos on ice are no different than babies in the womb. fertility clinics and doctors across alabama now in legal jeopardy as frozen embryos with genetic abnormalities are routinely discarded as part of ivf before implantation. part of a process to hem patients avoid miscarriages. that decision now a hot button political issue. nikki haley overnight working to

clear up her position after these comments to nbc's ali vitali. >> embryos to me are babies. i had artificial insemination, that's how i had my son. when you talk about an embryo, that's a life. >> haley later saying overnight, i didn't say i agreed with the alabama ruling. our goal is to always do what the parents want with their embryo. it is theirs. >> while back in birmingham, couples now feeling the effects, unable to carry a child because of a rare blood disorder, megan cole had planned to use a surrogate with an embryo implantation scheduled for this friday. >> my husband and i want a child desperately, but now that we have this pathway forward with ivf, with surrogacy, and for it to be taken away potentially in alabama is devastating for families who, you know, all they want is a child. >> reporter: but overnight, cole

learned her birmingham fertility clinic canceled the appointment. >> as for what happens next there, we heard from megan cole's fertility clinic, alabama fertility, and they confirmed in a statement, we have made the impossibly difficult decision to hold new ivf treatments due to the legal risk to our clinic and embreeologists on hold. there are other clinics that are saying we're going forward. it just underscores sort of the confusion and chaos for people. anybody who has done ivf knows this is all about timing, right? you cannot mess around with the timing or it's over. that's what's leaving people so anxious. so much depends on getting the timing just right for ivf. >> you're 100% right. again, there are some that are going forward with it. >> if you drop it or it's discarded accidentally as it was in the case for the -- who actually brought the lawsuit, that's what triggered all of

this. that's the risk they're willing to take, at least in some cases. >> laura jarrett, thank you so much. what a story. and for all of you in our next hour, i'll be talking with a doctor at that second health care provide in alabama about what this all means for women and health professionals just like her. you don't want to miss that. next, could donald trump and his co-defendants in the mar-a-lago classified documents case get the charges dropped. major deadline today and the legal stakes for special counsel jack smith. l stakes for speciall jack smith ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur.

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today is the deadline for donald trump's lawyers to file motions to dismiss the criminal charges against him in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. trump's team said they plan to file, quote, at minimum a series of motions to dismiss. joining us now, carol lam, former federal prosecutor, and paul henderson a veteran federal prosecutor. welcome to you both. carol, are there legitimate arguments to be made to dismiss

this case? >> well, a lot of the arguments that donald trump's legal team has indicated they're going to file today are arguments that are rehashed that we've already seen in jack smith's other litigation. for example, presidential immunity now pending before the supreme court. so some of these arguments have already been made, some are going to be decided in short order so we're going to have to see exactly what they filed but one of the things they're going to file is a challenge even to the appointment of jack smith. they're going to say that the special counsel can't be appointed by just the attorney general. there has to be some sort of congressional approval. some of these issues have not made their way up to the supreme court, so again, this is a delay tactic that they are hoping to accomplish to put this trial off until after the november election, if at all. >> i was going to ask you if they were following the delay, delay, delay trump playbook, and

you've just said that. so to you, paul, besides just paying for lawyers and things like that, trump was also ordered to pay $355 million in penalties, plus nearly 100 million in interest. that goes up by 87 grand every single day. it's about $30,000 more than the average american makes in one year. donald trump's likely going to need to secure a bond, right? how complicated is that process? what's that like? >> well, first, that number is going to be even bigger. after you calculate the fines, fees and penalties associated with that ruling, it's going to be 540 or $550 million. we're talking about an individual that has a history in the past of not paying his debts. this is a unique situation because in order to move forward and in order to make the appeals that he has said he is going to do, he's got to secure a bond and that's where it gets tricky these bonds are very important

in terms of what kind of money either you put up or use as collateral to get a financial institution to float you the money in order to move forward. here's why that matters. part of it means that he has aid in the past with his defamation rulings, for example, that he wanted to secure a bond so he didn't tie up more of his cash. what is going to cost him to do that is going to be exponentially larger because we're talking about numbers that typically are associated with large corporations and we're talking about the trump corporation. it's so closely tied to him as a candidate. people have been supporting him. people are going to have to balance and figure out whether or not they're paying for a party leader or are they paying for these known convictions associated or rulings against someone for bad acts or bad actions.

that's before we unpack what it's going to cost and what it's going to take to try and recover that money if and when he is the party nominee, unprecedented, or he is in office that may challenge or obstruct or delay how anyone gets their money that they give him ahead of time to make the ongoing challenges this he wants to make. >> the word unprecedented, that's the money word i'm telling you with all of this. carol, paul, thank you so much. good to see you both. coming up next, opening statements expected to begin today in the trial of the rust film armeror, what we're learning about the jury makeup after the break.

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afterwards. she has pleaded not guilty. and joining me here in the studio, nbc's chloe melas. welcome to you. walk us through what to expect and what kind of defense we might see. >> so opening statements are going to start in just a little bit in new mexico. and these jurors are going to have to decide if they believe what the prosecutors are going to lay out over the next two weeks, new mexico prosecutors are going to try to prove that hannah gutierrez reed was on drugs the night before the shooting, that she was hung over the day she loaded the prop gun with a live round of ammunition, which ultimately killed the film's cinematographer halyna hutchins, and that she brought the live bullets, whether knowingly or unknowingly, to the film set in the first place. and if you know anything about the rules in hollywood, live bullets are not allowed on the set in any circumstance. so, how did they get there? so she is charged with involuntary manslaughter. also, tampering with evidence. the tampering with evidence charge is that she allegedly after she was questioned by

authorities, after the shooting that she passed off a bag of cocaine to a friend in order to conceal it. and she could face up to three years in jail if convicted on both counts. >> so the big question remains, does she go on the stand, yes or no? >> her attorney hasn't said either way. i think they're going to watch and see how the trial plays out. >> okay. chloe melas, thank you much. still ahead in our next hour, i'll talk with an alabama doctor about what she's hearing from couples about their fertility fears after alabama's frozen embryo ruling. the story of one of the only americans repaid for slavery and what it means for his descendants. we're back after a short break. don't go anywhere. dants. we're back after a short break don't go anywhere. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. come on. i already got a pneumonia vaccine, but i'm asking about the added protection of prevnar 20®. if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20® is approved in adults

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hello to all of you and welcome back. it is approaching 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm alex witt in for jose diaz-balart. right now, a massive cell phone outage impacting tens of thousands of customers. we're going to bring you detai