francisco. we know of course dasha is a student at stanford. we thought perhaps this meeting might be happening later this afternoon when the president would be attending a fundraiser miles from campus. it was just after andrea broke the news of the meeting that the white house revealed this meeting had happened. you can understand the secrecy, security concerns around the meeting. now talking about the meeting taking place. we should note the strong words we have been hearing from president biden not just this week, but even last night at a different fundraiser here in the bay area. criticizing his likely opponent, donald trump, for his coziness with vladimir putin, talking about putin also in that fundraiser as a sob, chris. >> mike memoli, thank you for that. much appreciated. and that is going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with

"katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you. i'm katy tur. why wasn't there a red wave in 2022? and why do we keep on seeing democrats win in blue places, in purple places, and red places? you can argue candidate quality. you can also argue threats to democracy, but you cannot argue with the impact of abortion. ever since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, blue voters, purple voters and red voters across the country have turned up to protest it. not through rallies or marches, though some have done that, too, but for voting. both for candidates and for policies that promise to protect access to health care. it is the single issue that democrats close to president biden tell me they are banking on most in 2024 in november. just watch, they've said. as we get into this year, there

will be court decision after court decision, further restricting access and further alienating voters from the gop. and lo and be hold, here we are, the alabama state supreme court ruled embryos are children. effectively outlawing ivf as it is currently practiced or making it murky enough to force providers to pause. we will get into the specifics of why that is in a moment with a fertility doctor in alabama. along with the background of the alabama court and its chief justice who cited quote, the wrath of a holy god in his concurring opinion. we have to start with the politics. who did decisions like this, one that is don't just make it harder to end a pregnancy but make it harder to start a presidency. you may think evangelicals, that's not entirely clear.

kellyanne conway, polling shows americans across the board support ifv. 85% of all respondents to her polling firm ka consulting, 78% among self-identified pro life advocates, and 83% among evangelical christians. so i ask again, who do decisions like this win over? joining us now from myrtle beach, south carolina, lisa rubin, ali vitali, and heidi przybyla joins me as well. you're following nikki haley. yesterday you asked about this decision, and she seemed to side with the alabama state supreme court that an embryo is a child. she's now trying to walk that back. tell us why that is so significant. >> reporter: her exact words to

me were embryos to me are babies. she's someone who had her son with the help of artificial insemination. that process is different than ivf. while she believed that embryos were babies, she also thought it was important for people to be able to have open conversations with their doctors and that this is that governments have to be sensitive about. of course, we know the impact of laws having chilling effects on those kinds of sensitive conversations that patients can have with their doctors, especially around reproductive health care. you look in the postdobbs era and the answer to the question of why is this something she feels she has to clean up is right there. in every single election contest we have seen, and there have been seven or eight in the last year and a half, not including the mass 2022 midterms where people wondered why there wasn't a red wave, and reproductive access was part of the conversation. when abortion is on the ballot,

pro choice have seen wins in the ballot box. republicans over the entire time i have covered this 2024 primary have all struggled when it comes to the question at what week mark do they want to ban abortion, especially because the national sentiment around that issue is one that they prefer. americans prefer abortion to be available and safe and legal as opposed to restricted. but what you have right now is a reminder that the u.s. is a patch work of rules after the dobbs decision. nikki haley now weighing in on one of the tangents we're seeing happen in some of these redder states in the post-dobbs era and recognizing that's out of step with where the american public wanted to be, on something highly used by people who want to grow their families like ivf. >> heidi, let's talk about what you're gathering, when it comes to evangelicals, pro life voters. >> we talked this morning, we happened to have a "politico" summit with governors, including governors from pretty red

states. i interviewed governor stitt from oklahoma, but we also interviewed governor lee. i think this is a moment where things are starting to crystallize to explain why so many americans feel that democracy is eroding. here you have a minority of a minority of christians making these decisions based along ideological lines or at least that's how many americans feel about this. this is coming on the heels of the roe decision where even that decision, you look at 24% of republicans, just 24%, believe that abortion should be illegal in all cases, yet you have these very restrictive in a number of red states. this issue appropriately framed it in the opening is not about ending life, but creating life. and here you have alabama's

largest hospital pausing ivf treatment, which is going to be heartbreaking for many women, who by the way, are probably conservatives as well, who have their embryos in there, and also these upcoming court rulings. this isn't going to be the issue for you, there's more in april, the court is going to take up this issue of mifepristone, which is the number one abortion method in america. the chemical abortion bill. and that could also cause a huge outcry among americans who, you know, now that abortion is becoming illegal in many states wouldn't have this access as well. >> we had a little bit of trouble with your audio up top, i believe brian kemp of georgia, bill lee, and chris sununu have got no problem with ivf. it seems like although the republicans wanted abortion to

be -- roe v. wade to be overturned in the supreme court, the unintended consequences of that or the fact that they can no longer control it after that, is boomeringing around on that. >> yeah, i don't know if you heard this part. on behalf of a majority of americans. this is, i think, a reason, a primary reason why so many americans feel like democracy is eroding because these decisions fundamentally cut against how most americans feel, what most americans believe, and that goes for republicans, certainly, including, for instance, on the issue of roe. i don't know if you heard the statistic, but 24% of republicans believe abortion should be illegal in all cases, and you have these very restrictive laws being passed in red state after red state, and this issue is going to stay very much in front of the public because of these court rulings,

and then number two, because of the trump campaign, the past, you know, on these issue, the extreme evangelical positions, the extreme orthodox catholic positions, they were basically just foot soldiers in the army to getting republican presidents elected but now they have the power of the pen and i did some reporting on that this week as well. >> "the new york times" is also reporting on what a trump administration, if he were elected again would look like for reproductive rights and all of the ways that the trump administration could use executive action to limit it further. including the comstock act. i want to focus on alabama itself. let's talk about this court. what's the history of this court in terms of the fight against abortion, the fight to overturn roe v. wade?

>> the statute that's being interpreted dates back to the 1870s. it had been recently interpreted to cover unborn children as well. the issue in this decision -- >> but it's an 1870s decision they're citing to say it protects children, including children made in a petri dish which could not have been further from -- >> the minds of the people who created this wrongful death statute in 1872. that's absolutely right. as we often see in movements they have slowly chipped away at what it means to be a minor child. first giving rights to unborn children and in this decision, deciding that unborn children is a category that must include embryos, even if they're outside the womb. this court has been at it for a while, and in particular, it's chief justice tom parker who was first elected in 2004. he's the founding executive director of an organization affiliated with focus on the

family, and for whom god might be the highest authority, even above the constitution state or federal. >> he cited god in his decision. a lot of people read this, i'm sorry, i thought we didn't live in a state that had religion embedded in this. how can he do that as a judge. >> that's what we call saying the quiet part out loud. those beliefs, i think, animate the majority of decision in dobbs as well. they find their expression in that opinion in terms of all sorts of history. the opinion itself says our history and tradition teach us abortion is not a fundamental right. what under girds that, a deeply rooted belief in faith that abortion should not be a moral good or public access or right. >> when we're talking about religion, you're arguing this is a religious-based decision, there are other groups who say my religion, and i have freedom of my religion in this country, it's embedded in the constitution, my religion says a

baby is not a person until its first breath. >> that's right. >> and they're arguing that in court! yes, and they have with respect to post dobbs legislation as well. there was legislation in florida started by rabbis say the jewish religion does not prohibit abortion, and therefore florida's own laws are now penalizing people on the basis of religious identification. infertility has no religion, it has no political party. as you noted in your opening in that polling from kellyanne conway. there are many people who identify as pro life that are pro ivf. you're seeing the chairman of the alabama committee start to think about how do we amend the statute so embryos not implanted in a womb don't count as a child for purposes of the wrongful death act, and also don't erode the right and access to ivf.

>> he writes what they should do is implant every single embryo, no matter how high of a quality one hit to see if it implants and gets to birth. if it doesn't, trial over again. if you've been through ivf you know that's not a feasible process nor is it a financially easy process, considering it costs 20 to 30 grand depending on where you are. ladies, thank you very much. joining us now is john boehner, and msnbc political analyst, brandon buck. it's also not physically or emotionally easy either. brendan what does this mean? >> look, you know, as you all have stated very clearly, this is not a consensus position even in the republican party and i was frankly stunned that nikki haley leaned into the ruling in the way that she remembers. she certainly didn't do her party any favors with this.

as you have talked about, the issue of abortion was a major deciding factor in the last election. and i think that surprised a lot of republicans who thought the election was going to be about the economy. what republicans have learned is you don't get to decide what an election is about in a vacuum. and as we have already seen, democrats are going to try to seize on this, and the president himself putting out a statement on it today, and i imagine they're going to continue talking ant this. this will matter more or less depending on what a lot of republicans do right now. if the response like a lot of those governors you listed is we don't agree with this, we are not going to stand by this. we are going to not allow that in our state. this could go away. if donald trump says this is stupid, we're going to allow ivf, this may go away. if you have enough republicans in state legislatures going along with this. you're going to end up this a

situation where the party is basically held hostage by a bunch of actors, a like a state supreme court and legislature, and nobody can define the politics for the party. that's where we get in trouble. >> do you think they can put the cat back in the bag, especially when you've seen state after state make abortion illegal after fewer weeks, six weeks, sometimes just at concept, you have texas that says it's illegal period and you can't get an abortion unless you're on death's door on the operating table, and we have seen the consequences of that. there's donald trump's, you know, reporting talking about how he favors stricter abortion limits nationally. there's reporting from the "new york times" talking about what his administration would want to do. individuals within a trump administration in the future about using the comstock act, which would say that you can't send abortion bills across state lines, interpreting that old law

to make it harder to practice abortion anywhere in the country because you can't get the materials you need to do it. can you put the cat back in the bag when all of that stuff is in the either now? >> it's hard to. there's an enormous constituency in the republican party that want those things. the ivf is a bit of an outlier. there's not consensus that ivf is bad. unlike abortion, where there's a very large population who are not going to tolerate backsliding on that. i don't know that you can, and democrats will press their advantage. what happened in '22 is state where is abortion access was not in question, those attacks on republicans didn't resonate quite as much. republicans had a good night in new york.

abortion rights were not going to go away. republicans didn't suffer from those attacks quite as much. if in georgia, brian kemp says we're going to make sure ivf is allowed. this is part of a bigger trend where you have a state legislatures and court all over the place having this drip drip drip that puts the republican party out of the mainstream of the general population, and if donald trump isn't willing to change this direction. >> courts that have been stacked heavily by the trump administration four years ago with republicans who are not in favor of abortion. bren dan buck, thank you very much. university of alabama at birmingham has paused ivf. what are other alabama clinics doing. a doctor from one joins me next. plus, president biden has just met with the widow and

daughter of alexei navalny, what he told them about how the u.s. plans to hold vladimir putin accountable. and what was it like being held hostage by hamas? nbc news sits down with one woman who was freed after 51 days. she tells us what she saw, and what she fears for those still in gaza including her husband. we're back in 60 seconds. ds what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. have you seen it, by the way? happy birthday, grandma! really? look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank. -hey! -hey! brought my plus-one. jamie? ♪ ♪

subway's tuna is off the hook! it's 100 percent wild-caught. this tuna is fishing for a compliment and i'm taking the bait. alright, i'm all punned out. i'm o-fish-ally finished. get it? try subway's tasty tuna today. let's keep talking about what this alabama decision means. joining us now, dr. beth, who specializes in infertility and reproductive surgery at the alabama fertility clinic. thank you for being with us. we have the university of alabama pausing ivf treatments. mobile is also pausing their procedures. this just happened. what is your clinic going to do? >> our clinic is struggling to

come up a plan that's safe for patients and is able to continue the care we would like to with our clinic population. we are working with our legal team, locally and nationally, as well as our lab director to come up with a plan. for now, we have continued patients who are actively in treatment to attempt to do what's right and stay for them. we have paused other treatments. we're doing a hold for those patients. we're modifying their treatment plan with the hope and expectation that we can have more clarity on this and move forward in a safe way for us and them. >> can i ask with a little bit more detail, are you doing any embryo transfers right now? are you doing any fertilization of eggs and sperm right now? >> for now, we are continuing with patients in active treatment. we are doing egg retrievals, we have paused frozen embryo transfers and the thaw of those

embryos. we are trying to modify this. this has been really been flexible and fluid over the last week. as you can imagine, there's lots of conversation going on here for what's right for us as well as for patients. so constantly changing now. >> it sound like you're doing much of what the university of alabama is doing, and correct me if i'm wrong if what the mobile infirmary is doing, basically saying the murky part is not the freezing part of the eggs or sperm, the murky part is the embryos itself because that's what this ruling basically says those embryos are children and if you discard them or mishandle them or something, you could potentially be facing civil or potentially criminal liability. >> that's the part that's hard to navigate. the decision came out on friday, contacting support, we have seen

fantastic support from both the local and state and national level. we appreciate you and others covering this issue for our patients. the dobbs decision blew open a door and we don't know what's on the other side of that. this is one of the situations that this took us by surprise that our legislature was moving forwards. it's distressing for patients within the state for the right to have children and when to have them, not just in alabama but across the nation. >> there was talk about ivf when the dobbs decision was handing down and whether it would be at risk, some people said of course it would be fine. why would they restrict that, that's creating life and others warned against this. as you said, the dobbs decision blew open a door, and it's chilling. can i ask you how your patients have been responding? >> not well.

we have had a lot of difficult phone calls. my partners and i have been calling patients to discuss the decision with them. many times we're having everybody take a deep breath and know the embryo they have in our cry owe storage room on the other side of the wall, the embryo is safe, we are not discarding embryos, that embryo is safe, and we are going to do everything we can to fight for their right to make the decision regarding their own embryos and to have equal access throughout the state and country for that matter. >> the chief justice in his concurring opinion suggested there was a way to do ivf, the single insemination, single fertilization of a single egg and sperm for a single embryo and implanting that single embryo, regardless of its viability or its quality into the mom and seeing how it goes

and doing that repeatedly until a pregnancy happens. is that viable, is that possible? >> it would be extremely inefficient. one of the things that we educate patients on all the time is natural reproductive physiology. every month, there's a batch of eggs that grow within the ovary and that usually one of those eggs is going to be selected to become the egg for that cycle. the rest go away and never have the opportunity to be a baby or an embryo for that matter. when this happens every month, one becomes the egg, the rest of them go away. some eggs are released and fertilized and never make it to the utility rows or make it to the uterus and don't grow. this happens every month in every woman that is ovulating within the united states, and abroad. so this process with ivf is basically trying to make that

entire month's worth of eggs grow and stimulate and have the efficiency to then get not only to an embryo but a healthy embryo that can be implanted to become a healthy child. the goal of this is for the efficiency that many of these patients can't have on their own. they have many medical treatments, medical problems, surgeries, they have many issues where they can't do this on their own, and this is their only option to grow their family. >> for a lot of women it's not so easy to have a child and the process of ivf can be emotionally exhausting and draining and financially draining, and i know anyone out there experienced doing one implant per cycle would be overwhelming, dr. beth molisia, thank you very much for joining us. good luck out there. >> thank you very much. coming up what president

biden said to the widow and daughter of alexei navalny. they just met in san francisco. here's a photo of the meeting. first, though, what now for house republicans who are trying to impeach president biden? >> i think it's time for chairman comer and republicans to wrap up the circus tent. >> that's jamie raskin after the key witness was indicted for lying, do the republicans have anyone else? don't go anywhere.

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alexei navalny's mother says she has seen her son's body, six days after she accused russian prison officials of denying her access. president biden is in san francisco where he just met with navalny's wife and daughter. tomorrow, the white house will impose even more sanctions on russia. it's unclear what is left in that arsenal after the invasion of ukrainement joining us now, new yorker staff writer and author of "surviving autocracy," masha, what does navalny's death mean for russians how is it being seen inside russia? >> if you're talking about russians who are in russia, you're talking about people who are bombarded with state propaganda. state propaganda is never something that carries a single message. it is created to create a mess

of disinformation and crazy messages. one of the crazy messages going out there is that americans somehow killed navalny. it doesn't really bear repeating all the insanity that russians are being targeted with. nonetheless, more than 400 people have been detained for laying flowers in memory of alexei navalny. in today's russia, that's a radical act. we're talking about 400 people having been detained, we're talking about tens, hundreds of thousands of people who risk arrest and under current circumstances who risk their lives to pay respect to navalny. so even that level of state propaganda is not managing to keep people from understanding what actually happened. >> tell me if i'm wrong about this, alexei navalny's central

message to russians was don't be afraid. we can change the system. don't be afraid of the system. if you give them your fear, you give them your power. he went back to russia knowing full well it could end the way it ended, probably hoping not. what happens to his message inside of russia? what happens to his movement with him no longer around? >> look, i don't have a crystal ball. i don't know what happens to his message, i don't know what happens to his movement. we're going to have to see what happens. you know, i think we should be talking not about what might happen in a far away land. you know, really with variables that none of us have any idea about. it's all speculative. but about what is happening now, and what's actually tangible and what we have some control over. what we have control is the u.s. response to the death of navalny, which, yes, apparently

the united states is going to announce sanctions tomorrow. but as you mentioned, it's not clear what's left in their arsenal, but i think even more important, putin doesn't care about sanctions. sanctions don't affect putin. he loves sanctions. sanctions allow him to portray himself and the russian people to the russian people as being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the west. what helps is arming ukraine. this is where the united states is failing. the only thing that actually threatens putin's regime is the process of a military defeat in ukraine. and that prospect is farther than it's ever been because of american failure to aid ukraine. >> if you're talking to somebody who's saying why should we bother arming another country overseas, we have problems here. we have issues we need to fund. that money could be better spent

at home, what is the argument for continuing to fund ukraine? >> you know, i don't know that i have anything to say to somebody who has no sense of morals or human responsibility or international law or international treaties that actually obligate the united states to protect its partners in europe, i mean, why should we bother to be human? why should we bother to protect democracy elsewhere? why should we bother to care about hundreds of thousands of civilians being targeted, you know, millions of civilians being targeted, hundreds of thousands of civilians dying. why should we care about millions of people having been displaced. why should we care about an unprovoked war of aggression, a genocidal war. because we should care. because we're human. >> masha, hold on one second, the president is walking up to reporters right now. he's going to discuss a little

bit of his meeting with alexei navalny's widow and daughter. his daughter goes to stanford, and when he was in san francisco for fundraising events, this was unannounced. i'm not sure if it was unplanned but it was certainly unannounced and surprised all of us in the press. let's listen. >> with alexei navalny's wife and daughter. to state the obvious, he was a man of incredible courage, and it's amazing how his wife and daughter are emulating that. we're going to be announcing sanctions against putin who is responsible for his death tomorrow. and one thing that was made clear to me is that yulia is going to continue to fight. we're not letting up. thank you.

>> pretty short statement there. going to be announcing sanctions, as you were saying, sanctions are not exactly effective. we have seen that so far in the past two years that russia has been fighting against ukraine. ukraine has been trying to hold russia back. what do you think? what do you make of republicans refusal? why republicans are refuse to go arm ukraine? why republican lawmakers who have seen the intelligence, who historically have understood that russia is an adversary, and certainly understand who vladimir putin is, why are they refuse to go put guns in the hands of ukrainians as they're fighting and pushing them back? >> i think republicans have turned into a party that has an audience of one person. that person is donald trump. as we know, donald trump does not understand the concept of international security. he certainly does not understand the concept of solidarity. he certainly does not understand the concept of humanity. and the republican party has

turned into a party of people who are afraid of the power that donald trump wields among his voters. and are trying to prove that they are more trump than trump. and if that means sacrificing millions of ukrainians and putting the rest of europe at risk. let's be perfectly clear, we're not just talking about ukraine. we're talking about putin's threat to the entire european continent, most likely poland is next. he has made it very clear that he has his eyes on poland. and if donald trump becomes president and basically pulls out of nato as he has made clear is his intention, then putin is going to mobilize a million russians and attack poland. that's what we're looking at and that what's we should be caring

about. >> anne applebaum had an interesting response. i would love to get your thoughts on it. she said that the republican party looks to russia and sees it as this white christian nation, without all of this, you know, diversity. without all of this internal cultural tumult. without all the messy democracy stuff, led by a person who seems to be strong and empowered. it looks cleaner to them, essentially, is what she's arguing. is that what russia is, number one? and number two, do you think that that's getting to the heart of anything? >> that's a really interesting point, and i think anne is probably right. among other things, it reflects just how ignorant republicans are. russia may put itself forth under vladimir putin as a white christian nation, and a leader of what he imagines to be a traditional value civilization. but russia is an empire that, in

fact, includes hundreds of different ethnicities, and many different religions. russia has a much larger muslim minority than the united states has, and islam is one of the titular religions of the russian federation, something that probably republicans aren't aware of. and this whole traditional values war that putin has unleashed, yes his propaganda is working very well on american republicans, but it hardly reflects what russia really is. it reflects the kremlin's idea of what russia ought to be an idea in the name of which putin is targeting many many different kinds of people including, of course, lgbt people who have been declared, all of us have been declared extremists and

terrorists by the russian state, and that's what republicans in congress are supporting. >> it's always good to have you. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. and is the white house's support of israel putting the state of michigan at risk for democrats this november? and given that a trump white house would likely have the same policy, why are some arab americans saying they will not vote for president biden. and what now, we go to capitol hill where house republicans are struggling to find any evidence to impeach president biden. i'll buy you a pony. advanced hydration isn't just for kids. pedialyte helps you hydrate during recovery. t-mobile built a 5g network so powerful, it goes beyond the expected. and now, t-mobile 5g internet for homes and businesses is here. also, here... here... here... here... even here. whatever shape your home or business is, t-mobile is bringing high speed internet

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i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. "overflowing with ideas and energy." that's the san francisco chronicle endorsing democrat katie porter for senate over all other options. porter is "easily the most impressive candidate." "known for her grilling of corporate executives." with "deep policy knowledge." katie porter's housing plan has "bipartisan-friendly ideas to bring homebuilding costs down." and the chronicle praises "her ideas to end soft corruption in politics." let's shake up the senate. with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message.

special counsel david weiss's office is asking a judge in california to reconsider a ruling in nevada. they want alexander smirnov, the former fbi informant who they say lied about president biden taking a bribe from a ukrainian gas company detained ahead of trial. arguing it's not just the lies, he's still actively peddling russian disinformation that could affect the 2024 election and among other things, he's a serious flight risk. while the judge considers the request, there is a lot of talk about what will happen to the gop effort to impeach president biden in the house. smirnov was a key witness. if not the key witness to their case. now that he's been called a liar, what do they have left? according to rep jamie raskin, the top democrat on the committee, absolutely nothing.

>> i think the smirnov revelations destroy the entire case. i mean, smirnov was the foundation of the whole thing. he was the one who came forward to say that burisma had given joe biden $5 million. and that was just concocted out of thin air. and so it was that foundation that the whole house of cards has been built on, and the entire thing has collapsed, but of course we don't even have to rely on smirnov's own words because there have been somewhere near a dozen witnesses who have completely repudiated and refuted these essential allegations. >> joining us now, nbc news exhale correspondent ryan nobles, what is the status of this investigation, and did the president's brother james give them anything last night? >> reporter: well, just based on what we got in terms of reaction from both republicans and democrats yesterday after that interview took place, it doesn't

reveal that james biden revealed a smoking gun that will bring this impeachment inquiry to a halt and allow them to move to articles of impeachment. it seemed as though for the most part he was clear that his brother was never involved in his business activities and never used influence to help him with his business practices. i think republicans are zeroing in on next week's interview with hunter biden who's of course the president's son who they believe could find himself in a situation where he's forced to answer tough questions that may be able to corroborate some of these theories and being very clear here, they're nothing but theories that they have about joe biden using his influence to help with his son's business practices. but, you know, we're in a situation right now, katy, where they have been promising to deliver the goods now for several months, and just really have not put anything on the table that would qualify as hard evidence of joe biden being a part of any sort of bribery scheme or using public office in an inappropriate way that would lead to a high crime and

misdemeanor, so the big question is how do they get to that place, and how does that impact the impeachment inquiry going forward. >> what about what raskin said that the whole thing was built on smirnov's allegations. we had jim jordan last month saying this was a key smoking gun witness, you know, with corroborating evidence. and now you have comer saying he was never that big of a deal in the first place. where is the truth? >> reporter: i mean, katy, i find it just kind of hard to believe and head scratching that republicans' argument now as it relates to the informant that is at the core of this fbi tip sheet, which they have been touting for months as hard core evidence have now all of a sudden decided itst -- it's not that important at all. i was outside the room where they made the document available to members of congress against the ask of the fbi to continue to keep it private because this one piece, this tip sheet was not enough to qualify as hard evidence.

there were republicans walking out of that room who were so convinced by just seeing that tip sheet that they should move to articles of impeachment immediately, and now they're telling us that it really wasn't that important of a piece of evidence in the context of their entire investigation. there is no doubt that they have flipped the script on this to a 180 degrees, and it's going to be difficult for them to come out from underneath it. that doesn't mean there aren't questions about this. why was this fbi informant on the fbi's payroll for ten years, why did they believe him at one point and not believe him now, but that doesn't take away the simple fact that republicans believed this, it was a foundational principle in terms of their theory that joe biden was involved in an influence, peddling or bribery scheme, and thousand that just is no longer part of the argument. >> ryan nobles, thank you very much. and the white house's top middle east adviser, brett mcgirk is in israel today in renewed hopes of a hostage deal that would start to return the remaining israelis kidnapped

five months ago on october 7th. among them, 64-year-old keith seigle, he was taken hostage alongside his wife. she was held for 54 days, before being released in november before the first cease fire. nbc's molly hunter sat down with her, and joining us from jerusalem is nbc news international correspondent molly hunter. what did she tell you? >> reporter: katy, it was a really wide ranging interview. we spent about two and a half hours with her and the man you see next to her in those clips is keith's older brother, lee, they are incredibly frustrated with the netanyahu government, they are frustrated when what they say is his prioritizing of the war effort with the continuing of the continuing of the war effort for his political survival and not the prioritizing of the survival of keith sooeg the. he's an american and she was held with keith for most of her 51 days and she describes the

harrowing circumstances. take a listen. >> we couldn't even breathe. keith looked a the me and said he's breathing very heavily and he can't breathe. and we felt like we were going to die. i told keith he's going to be okay. and he told me i'm going to be okay. and we were there for each other. on the fourth day when he came down, i told him one more day. i am going to be dead. >> you did that? >> i did that. i'm going to be dead. and you want to carry me up the stairs. >> reporter: she's describing for several days the tunnel that they were held in. she says they were moved 13 times in 51 days. they were held above ground and below ground and talks about the israeli bombing that she heard. she talks about the outgoing missiles and says one day they even multiple times says they brought them up to look around

at the destruction. i asked her did you ever see israeli soldiers and think that israel ewe when you were and she said no, not once. and one time, the building next to them had been flattened. ask this made her very scared about their survival. one more anecdote she shared, we talked about this. we have talked about this earlier. but she talked about a very young girl who is being held with them coming out of a bathroom, a hamas militant, they were held by armed militants. and this was a girl who was too young to have ever been touched. ask this is something that she's testified in front of the israeli people about. she says she's very worried not only for her husband, but also the girls and women that are still being held in gaza. >> it's a disgusting situation. thank you very much. coming up next, why some american voters in michigan have

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we have heard a lot about the disallusionment of young voters in michigan. democrat who is say they are so disgusted with president biden's unconditional support of israel that they are willing to deal with the consequences of him losing. national correspondent sat down with voters to understand how deep their anger is and whether democrats can can win them back. yasmin joins us now from michigan. what did they tell you? >> reporter: they are angry. the anger runs really deep. it runs 30,000 deep. 30,000 people have lost their lives so far in gaza. many of them were on the fence before the war began. and now this is just cemented

how they feel about a reelection of the president. two of the folks i spoke to are on the fence about november. two of them will not be voting for him no matter what over gaza, over some of the promises that he made when he ran for election ands promises he has not kept. let's take a listen to some of what thaw had to tell me and we'll talk on the other side. >> you voted for joe biden. who was voting uncommitted in the primary. who was undecided in general election? >> whablt what about you? were you on the fence? >> yes and no. i have never liked him. he really has not delivered opt a the lot of things he said he would. now the last four months in gaza, i feel like you can't i guess norse it. it's really what he does in the next eight months is going to

make or break whether i vote for him in the general. >> you have been so distant from your constituents. you took our vote and turned around and stabbed us in the back. took our money, our money is used to kill our brothers and sisters. this is just inexcusable. it's inexcusable. >> reporter: so the woman just speaking, both women said we will not vote for him no matter what. mckale sitting to the left, he said if joe biden calls for a permanent cease-fire and works towards a two-state solution, a safe place to live again, could reconsider my vote when it comes to november. the biden camp here in michigan reached out to me. and they told me they understand there is a problem? the muslim community here within the arab-american community

here. historically the president has not lobbied for a permanent cease-fire as of yet. that being said, they are going to continue to reach out to the community here, but they are focusing more on the suburban vote, the black vote here, the female vote as well. however, these folks that i was just speaking to, especially some of the other voters, they think without their community, they cannot win michigan. even with all hands on deck here in this state. >> but let me ask you this. we have no time. donald trump would be even more staunchly on the side of israel. he would give israel more weaponry arguably than joe biden does. do they not see a difference there? >> reporter: i asked them that exact question. i pushed back. they said how much worse could it get. and maybe we need to suffer to send a message about the political institutions in this country.

we need to suffer to send a message we don't agree with the