could learn a lesson about kindness, and bravery from this moment. >> we're not the only ones out there that could do something. anybody can. and, also, to be such a young lady it shows you that bravery and courage can come in all sizes and shapes. >> holy cow. you know we say it on the show, all the time. if you need help, ask for it. but if you can give, help give it. , and my god, mrs. lilly certainly did a real life example of how anyone can be a hero. extraordinary. and, on that amazing note i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues, across the networks of nbc, thanks for staying up late with me. wasn't it worth it for that story? see you again tomorrow. again t

>> good evening, from washington d.c.. i'm michael steele. in for chris hayes. now, as a real estate developer donald trump loved to put his name on opp, other people's buildings. now he is about to pull off a similar re-branding on the republican national committee. and it's going to end up pretty much like is filled atlantic city casino. after forcing one time ally, ronna mcdaniel, it out as rnc chair, trump endorsed his own daughter in law for co-chair. today, laura trump spoke at cpac, laying out the plan. >> ladies and gentlemen, i come bearing good news here today. because less than mine months away, from changing all of that, we will see donald j trump elected as the 47th president. >> going all in on this capitulation to trump, the

party of fiscal responsibility is making an atrocious investment. trump's rise has led to a diminished republican party, electorally, financially, and infidelity to conservative values. trump has lead the republican party on an embarrassing losing streak, despite promises the gop would, quote, get tired of winning. a few things to keep in mind, the party is losing money, ending last year with its lowest fundraising totals in a decade. laura trump has not ruled out paying her father in law is mounting legal bills. donald trump is the ultimate rhino, yes, that's right, he's a rhino. republican in name only. because his -- wrapped up few huge deficits and cozied up to authoritarians. and for nearly a decade, the republican party has been consumed by trump's chaos, division, grifters, and conspiracy theories. it appears this once great party wants more of the same. so much for winning. i am joined now by sabrina siddiqui, a white house reporter for the white house journal, and mckay coppins, and lucy caldwell veteran republican strategist who served as campaign manager for former illinois congressman. my buddy, joe walsh. so i want to begin with you on

this one. could you give us some sense, some inkling of a sense of how donald trump managed this complete takeover of the rnc now, and what it says about the party currently, and going forward? >> well, michael, of course you know about this better than anyone based on your own record. you know by your own record that this is really something gone wrong. after donald trump became president, he did something kind of unprecedented. he actually went about systematically removing state party chairs throughout the country, really shoring up the committee to make sure that like his base, it was full of

loyalists. i think it is easy in an episode like this to lose sight of what it is that a national party does. what does the republican national committee do, or what is it supposed to do? it is supposed to recruit candidates, you know, create data and technology resources for candidates. it's supposed to build a volunteer basis. it is supposed to create infrastructure to make it easier for candidates to win, to recruit high quality candidates, to make them successful. it seems like the republican committee is focused on doing the opposite. as laura trump said this week, very even contemplating pain donald trump's legal bills. that would be in line with trump doing things like using campaign funds to pay a quarter of 1 million dollars a year to his wife, hairstylist. it is true that behind the scenes, maybe they have the slightly more serious person in michael motley, who is the chair of the republican party, who is trump's pick for chair. but laura trump should be nowhere near the coach airship

of the rnc, and i never thought i would say this but her talents would actually be better spent recording covers of tom petty songs, and she is not any better at that either. >> there is that. sabrina, i think there are a couple of interesting points here. particularly around the money piece. given where the party is financially right now, what have you discovered from your reporting and learning from your report-ing about whether or not the party is actually going to go through paying these bills. can they really afford to pay the bills and win elections? >> the rnc does not have the money to pay former president trump's legal bills. you know, one of the main problems that they have had is not a lot of donors have not actually been willing to cut large checks to the rnc in part because they do not want that money going to former president trump. so i do not think that lara trump's comments are going to help with their fundraising capability is. at least with a faction of the republican donors. because that is a big concern

that that money is going to be used for his extensive legal bills, rather than propping up by the republican candidates, and the broader pursuit of not just taking back the white house, but also of gains in congress. but we have seen this trump- ification of the entire republican political apparatus that has been really years in the making. trump has actually been a hallmark of the rnc, even as it seems to be outgoing leadership. rana mcdaniel really took every possible step to appease former president trump, now candidate trump, it was just that she went on withholding the debates. you know, that was one of the things, and maybe didn't do enough in his eyes to go after what he said was election fraud. we all know it was actually a lie in a free and fair election. i do not think that no matter what the rnc says about pain or not paying the legal bills, the trump campaign saying that they want to use the rnc to pay his

legal bills, i think we know the rnc and all of the republican political apparatus would very much be used to do whatever trump tells them to do. >> that is the thing, they're going to do whatever trump tells them to do. so, sabrina is right in terms of the price for it loyalty to trump, it is basically a kick in the tush, and goodbye, thank you very much. you do have news of the teamsters out there who have apparently, their pack, they made their first significant donation to the rnc in many years, should -- does that mean that the gop may have to, to sabrina's point, go outside the traditional bounds of raising their money to find new donors? >> well, i mean, look. if you think of the rnc, and the broader republican institution constellation, as being essentially, now, a part of the trump business you have got to think about the way that trump has won his businesses in the past. that is if he racked up enormous debt he often tries to find ways to stiff his lenders.

they are bankruptcies, refusals to pay, i think that if you, i do think that if republicans and the rnc especially are going to be searching for new sources of revenue, if i were the teamster pack or another pack that is sitting down for a meeting where i am being pitched on you should really consider donating, i'm looking at this and saying what am i giving money to, what am i getting in return. because the way that the trump family has run their businesses in the past, we just talked about the one-way loyalty, i would be very skeptical of

expecting any kind of return on investment donating to the rnc when it is becoming increasingly just a part of the trump family. >> we will continue with that thought given what we saw at cpac today, for example, where we had a lot of folks and a lot of energy around this idea of trump not just securing the nomination but winning in november, it really was a trump convention, in so many ways, were cpac in the past back in the day, when you and i used to trace those halls was more about getting eight cavalcade of up incoming republicans who were out there talking about reagan policies, or bush policies. that's not what we are hearing and seeing today. what does that say about the conservative movement, if there is such a thing anymore? >> the conservative movement is a shell of itself so even the term conservative has stopped meaning much at all.

you are right about how cpac is not what it once was. but it is also not even what it was a few years ago. even this week there was news that cpac is no not going to credential media that they think are too left of center. or that are not sort of having adequately passed the cpac litmus test. even just a few years ago even at the end, even in 2020 at the end of trump's term, cpac was still an event where you had a radio row and you had npr had a booth you had liberal journalists, centrists, mainstream journalists, i think it just shows that this is just degrading so fast. there is no bottom and we don't even know what the bottom is yet and just with cpac you see on the other side the rnc is now going to install the completely incompetent unqualified daughter in law who has no experience in campaigns or politics whatsoever other than being a trump family member. part of the leadership of the rnc. so we do not know how bad this could get but we do know at this

point that there is no bottom so buckle up and we will find out. >> that is right. sabrina, that idea that cpac and probably other organizations inside of what is left of the gop are trying to carve out this space, where they get the people to cover them, that they want to cover them the way they want to be covered, so the idea of independent journalist like yourself coming into the table to cover the news, seemingly that is not what they want. you guys are left to send it because you are not maga right. so how does the press adjust and adapt to this emerging environment in this campaign season, where we probably have less and less access? >> access has been an increasing challenge for the press more broadly for years, no.

but she just continuing to go about covering the news, and covering both campaigns, both parties, as extensively as you can. with respect to cpac, i guess that people have no missed out on coverage of the january 6th pinball machine that they had. and this year's convention. you know, i think that -- i think what is illuminating about events like cpac, and why it is important to have journalists inside of the room is that it really does show how what was once maybe the fringe of the republican party, how that has actually become the mainstream. so, when you are talking about cpac, and it was once maybe a launching pad for some of the major republican party contenders whether it was in an ongoing election, or a future campaign cycle, and now it

really is just the trump show. so i think that that is probably what the big takeaway is from cpac this year, as well as in recent years. and especially after january 6th, it shows that if there was ever going to be any afford to desert him, that ship has long since sailed. >> last question to you, what are we to look for, what are you hearing and seeing out here right now, given cpac and all the other things that are going on, with south carolina this weekend, what do you think the general mood among republicans is going into it. they got, this right? they really have this right now. or do they see this being much more of a battle once they fully engage with democrats? >> i mean, i think that the problem that republicans who are not in the kind of trump cult, because there is the hard- core trump allies and they are pretty defeated, from what i saw. i don't know if the conversations are the same way for you. what i will be looking for is trump's entire track record shows that he is pretty bad at winning elections. he's bad at beating democrats. what he is good at is beating republicans. he has beat many republicans in the primary. when he weaves into congressional primaries, they often don't win in the general, the question is, with the

ongoing trump-ification of the republican institutions, will that change, or will we see another repeat of 2020, 2022, 2018, have republicans lining up behind trump and following him into a series of humiliating defeats. >> trump rhinos are like that. they like to lose. sabrina siddiqui, mckay coppins, lucy caldwell, thank you very much. still ahead, how the star witness for the republican impeachment effort ended up back behind bars after claiming that he got the biden misinformation from russian intelligence. that is next. visit coventrydirect.com.

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this are witness for the house republican impeachment inquiry into president joe biden is under arrest taken. this is alexander smyrna off, leaving court after first being arrested for making false statements to the fbi. this morning, he was taken back into custody under fierce of being a flight risk. meanwhile, the republicans who were using his lies to fuel their silly goose chase, including the head silly goose, james comer, are scrambling to act like it is no big deal.

just one week ago, the house oversight committee website listed, quote, fbi form -- alleging then vice president, joe biden, engaged in a bribery and extortion scheme under key evidence. but if you go to that website today, there is no mention of that form. and that is not the only notable deletion. >> we know that white house staffers reported this morning, received subpoena letters on this week saying that you have to come and testify, you know, for this impeachment inquiry. one staffer told me he received a letter in the 90 minutes later received a second. the second letter said hey, disregard the first. use this one instead. they looked at them and said what is the difference between the two? it is because all of the references to smirnoff in the first letter had been stripped out. >> carlos curbelo is a former congressman from degradate of florida. it is great to see you, my friend. you have jim jordan, and james comer acting like this is no big deal, it is no big deal that he's being arrested and charged with false statements. none of it is a big deal. what does it mean for ranking file members facing reelection campaigns this fall?

how do they navigate what it's a problem? >> it is good to be with you, michael. this is definitely a problem. when you think about why joe biden won the 2020 election, one of the big reasons is that swing voters in swing states all over the country decided that they had had enough of donald trump's scandals and controversies, and all of the chaos. so they chose joe biden, because they wanted more normalcy, they wanted more stability in government. now, what congressional republicans are trying to do is, they are trying to tell the swing voters, this isn't really a difference between donald trump and joe biden, they both have scandals, they both have controversies, and while democrats do have the more challenges this time around, because it is the presidents son, certainly there is a big difference between anything president biden has allegedly done, and of course, everything donald trump has done, most prominent of his senses january 6th. so this really puts a dent, a big dent in not just the case that republicans try to build, but the political strategy ahead of the 24 election, and you mentioned some of these ranking file members, some of these swing district members, i think that you are going to see some of these swing district members in biden districts, districts

president biden won that are held by republicans, they are going to start distancing themselves from this investigation because the more that we find out, the weaker it appears that the case is. >> it is not just the distancing. it is the clarifying. let's take for example, colorado republican who is pretty critical of this development last night. i will just let you take a listen to what they had to say. >> we were warned at the time that they see the document outlining this testimony, we were warned that the credibility of this statement was not known. yet, people, my colleagues, they went out and talk to the public about how this was credible, damning, and how it proved president biden at the time, vice president biden's complicity in receiving bribes. it appears to absolutely be false and to really undercut the nature of the charges. >> carlos, they were warned about his credibility. and now he's being charged with

lying. here we are. how do they go forward with impeachment? how does this impeachment effort survive after something like this? >> the truth is that it is going to be very difficult. you saw how difficult it was for republicans to impeach secretary mayorkas on basically immigration and an issue that actually unites all republicans. but even then, three republicans stepped down. no republicans have an even smaller majority because democrats won that swing district in long island. so with people like ken buck who are retiring, and who can actually express themselves with sincerity it is going to be difficult to move forward with this step, and i think a lot of the swing district members are going to say this is not good for. as this does not make sense. our district voted for this. so it might be more likely we lose. this is a big problem that republicans are having. they threw all of this mud of the will to try to tarnish president biden's image. a lot of that is coming off and they are starting to look back.

>> that is being polite. carlos cabrera, thank you very much, my friend, i appreciate you. coming, up the two men who want to remake the republican house. and they are having very different ideas of what that will look like. that is coming, up next.

>> congressman matt gaetz of florida house an ax to grind. the michael loyalists who assisted the last speaker has reportedly been still not at the party establishment over a congressional effort's probe over allegations of his sexual impropriety. that puts him decidedly at odds with the new republican speaker, mike johnson, according to new reports. the far-right nationalist used a retreat as an opportunity to deliver a sermon to his republican conference on the

nation supposed declining moral and religious character. as one of my next guest reported, johnson strain of mike across china is ascendant in today's republican party. heidi przybyla it's a correspondent for politico. her latest piece is titled trump allies, prepared to infuse christina shuttle-ism in second administration. and dexter filkins, staff writer at the new yorker, his latest piece is titled matt gaetz, chaos agenda, and they both join me now. i'm excited to have you guys here. dexter, we will start with you on this idea that matt gaetz has, about doing the c y a because of these investigations. as he mounted mike johnson at this point. it's a concerned at this point he ousted the last guy. what do you see matt trying to do with the situation given what he wanted mccarthy to do, which was squash that investigation into his ethics? >> he denies, that he since he was taken down, he wanted to take down mccarthy because you said the budget deficit is too big. it is still really big like it was when he took down mccarthy. but there's not a lot that johnson can do. it is a house ethics commission

investigation. johnson can't quash that. and he knows he can't. that is what mccarthy told gaetz. i can't do this for you, i won't do it, so that was sort of the context within which he took down mccarthy. is that the motive? it is unclear. and we don't know yet what the house ethics commission is going to do. any day now we could find out whether or not that goes anywhere, if it is just kind of ending. it's not basically where we are? >> the worst that can happen to him, the criminal investigation is done. they didn't charge him so the worst that could happen would be that he's kicked out of congress. it would be like george santos. >> on the other side, heidi, you've got the new speaker, mike johnson, who is not afraid to wear his christianity on his sleeve. his caller, his lapel, wherever he can wear it. how do members react to that. how are they responding to this real strong infusion of christian nationalism into the

body politics of the house? >> i talked with a lot of experts on this and i have seen it with my reporting, michael, which is that the base of the republican party has shifted. remember when trump ran in 2016, a lot of the mainland evangelicals wanted nothing to do with the divorced real estate mogul who cheated on his wife with a porn star, and all of that. so what happened was that he was surrounded by this more extremist element. we are going to hear words like christian nationalism, like the new re-formation. these are groups that you should get very schooled on because they have a lot of power in trump's circle and the one thing that unites all of them because there's many different groups orbiting trump. but the thing that unites them as christian nationalists, not christians because christian nationalists are very different is that they believe that our rights as americans and as all human beings do not come from any earthly authority. they don't come from congress,

from their supreme court, they come from god. the problem from that is that they are determining, men, are determining what god is telling them. in the past, that so-called natural law is a pillar of catholicism for instance, it has been used for good in social justice campaigns. martin luther king evoked it in talking about civil rights. but now you have an extremist element of conservative christians, who say that this applies specifically to issues including abortion, gay marriage, and it is going much further than that as you see, for instance, with the ruling in alabama, this week that judges connected to the dominion-est faction, and talking about a lot of other issues including surrogacy, ivf, sex education in schools, there's a lot in addition. >> therein lies that because the men are the one who get to decide what god thinks and feel about these issues. surrogacy or ivf. you report that matt gaetz wants to remake the gop and his image.

apparently so does mike johnson. what image is that. what does that look like? >> the party is changing. you know, republicans used to be golfers and bankers. and increasingly it is not that at all. it is a populist party. it is trump ended its gates. i think that johnson fits into that. so there is conflict there but i think essentially they are allies. they will disagree on some things, and gaetz is basically a libertarian. so that is not entirely compatible with what mike johnson believes but they have big goals and they want power so i think that my guess is they will figure out a way to make peace on most issues. >> it is interesting. as these two men are trying to carve the gop into their image, you've got the titular head of the party, donald trump, who is not a paragon of christian virtue. how do they reconcile that? is it just about he got us the supreme court? isn't just about he advocates for the things that we advocate, it doesn't matter whether or not he himself believes them or

has any type of moral connection or even a theocratic one given what you are saying? >> it really depends on the individual but if we talk for instance about his spiritual adviser who was a white house employee, he was his spiritual adviser, she was connected to this dominion's movement, and a lot of those individuals believe that trump actually was put here by god, he even tweeted in this video, you know, that god gave us trump, that he is a serious person who is in perfect vessel who is nevertheless here put on earth to do god's word, to put christianity back at the center of civic life. and you see that manifesting, not just in the courts, and we are seeing that with the ivf ruling, with the mifepristone ruling, now it is making its way to the supreme court.

but with project 2025, which is an agenda that is being very detailed agenda that is going to be offered up to president trump, if he wins a second term, former president trump, to work through the department of human health and services, as well as potentially the fda, that would really bypass deep in the courts and congress to do things like revoke authorization of the abortion pill, and then this is the one that does not get enough attention, it is the influencer campaign that is taking place right now, in the gop, to convince young women to ditch hormonal birth control, that they are secure, and they are more stressed out being, working women, that they should embrace being healthier, and more natural, and having large families, and daycare is not good for your kids either, all of these things actually happened at a turning point usa conference for young women leaders.

>> amazing. dexter, what is next for games? you've been covering this guy, he wants to be florida governor, what is the landscape for him? >> he wants to be the governor of florida, yes, what desantis has got two years left, i think it is all lining up, gates's father, dawn, who was the president of the florida senate is coming back to run again. so it is all kind of lining up for him.

but the question is, the ethics commission, why are politics so polarized? even if, let's say he gets expelled from congress because of what is in the ethics commissioner board, it is not clear that that would stop him in florida. >> it is a badge of honor. of course, the deep state and all of the others foes and felons here in washington would have been -- >> with the democrats still shocked by continuously saying my god, trump has been indicted again, and matt gaetz, he has done these terrible things, and they thrive on that.

>> they do. and they make a good grift off of this as well. heidi and dexter, thank you both so much for being here. thank you. up next, how republicans are scrambling to reassure voters after alabama endangers access to fertility treatment. that is ahead.

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children, the fallout sending shockwaves throughout the state and sending republican politicians scrambling. you see ivf is extremely popular. i mean extremely popular. as kellyanne conway's own polling firm found, 86% of all voters support access to ivf, including 78% of self- identified pro-life advocates and 83% of evangelical christians. so it is no wonder nikki haley is now desperately trying to backpedal after agreeing with the alabama supreme court ruling that embryos are babies. today she says ivf should still be available. because if there is one place republican politics actions do not want to be an election year, it's on the losing side of a very popular issue. we have someone here who were discriminations director on capitol hill. she's now a senior adviser for the -- project. it's so good to have you here tonight. i want to play for you a little bit of alabama senator tommy tuberville on that ruling. >> to have a reaction to the alabama supreme court ruling on the fact that embryos are children? >> yes. i was all for it. we need to have more kids. we need to have an opportunity to do that. i thought this was the right thing to do. >> but ivf is used to have more children and right now ivf services are paused it's on the clinics and alabama.

aren't you concerned this could impact people who are trying to have kids? >> that's for another conversation. >> i think that conversation is now. how is this alabama ruling roiling alabama republican politicians? >> the idiot senator tuberville is palpable and extraordinary at times. it's not the only time he has sounded like a moron. and he's paid for by the taxpayers of alabama. listen, this is another example of a kryptonite issue for republicans. they know that the majority of the american people are pro- choice and the overwhelming majority of people are pro ivf, including their own constituents in the republican party, including the evangelicals who overwhelmingly support ivf. there have been 8 million babies born through ivf in this country. so according to this alabama supreme court ruling, i guess, van, all of those babies, all

of those families who have had the gift of life, thanks to this technology, should not aboveboard. and all those people who were looking forward to have children that suffer from infertility which over 6 million women in this country, they just shouldn't have that opportunity. republicans do not want to have this discussion. if i'm dumb if i know democrats i'm going to go out and showcase all the families in my district or state or even a national election that have had successful ivf pregnancies and say to them, i challenge republicans to say that these children should not have had an opportunity at life. the extremism now is really beginning, i think, to sink in for some people, particularly women across this country who feel as though they are under attack. and they are. the rights of women in this country are under attack daily. and the republican party is at the helm of it. >> and you had, yesterday, nikki haley saying that she agreed with the alabama supreme court that embryos are children. but later on she tried to clarify her remarks, announcing ivf should be available. what are your thoughts on, as

an example of, to your point, this is a space republicans just don't want to be in. >> nikki haley flip-flopping on an issue and having to backpedal and then explain again is just another day that ends in why. this is part of the weakness of her candidacy. and this is coming from someone who used artificial reproductive technology to have her own child. these people are just unbelievable at times. i am glad that we are pointing this out. she knows that this is not an issue they want to argue. she knows that the idea of banning ivf is out of the mainstream. so she had to clarify. she was trying to cater to republican primary voters who are on the extreme, out of the mainstream on this, and then realize, oh, that's not the right answer. i need to keep myself honest in this and clarify. look, republican strategists across the country know that the abortion issue, the women's rights issue, is a losing one for them. and there are over a dozen states that have abortion on the ballot this year for referendums. in those swing states where they're the abortion issue comes up, places like michigan, arizona, wisconsin, pennsylvania, they do not want to have women coming out in

large numbers, particularly republican women, pro-choice women, and voting a single vote voters on this. that could swing the election for democrats. republicans notice. that's why kellyanne conway put the memo out trying to tell them, hey guys, you don't want this issue front and center. we are going to lose for us.

it should. be women's rights should not be under attack in 2024. this is not an episode of the handmaid's tale. but if you empower these people and let them get voted into office, it will be. >> tara setmayer, always bringing it. appreciate. you thank you so much. coming up, the republican plan to win the next election with a can of gold spray-paint and some sneakers. that deeply centered goal ploy in a fox news global light. for the ages. next. ight. for the ages. next.

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>> if you want to know what trump campaign staffers think about you, just watch fox news.

like this weekend when they got over donald trump's new ploy for money, a-limited-ish and series of gaudy gold 400 dollar trump sneakers. and like they always do on fox, somebody said the quiet part out loud of what the big sneaker strategy is really all about. >> even the sneaker thing. i was on snow shull media last night. very interesting. as you see black support eroding for joe biden this is connecting with black america. because a lot sneakers. or into sneakers. this is a big deal. certainly in the inner city. so when you have trump rolled out his sneaker line, they're like wait a minute, this is cool. he's reaching them on a level that defies and is above politics. the culture always trumps politics. and trump understands culture like no politician i've ever seen.

>> seriously? why didn't i think of this when i ran the rnc? let's see. black folks love sneakers. and we can paint them gold. this can't miss. trust me, it's a big miss. and they are ugly as hell. angelo carusone what does a lot of fox's president of media matters for america. he joins me now. 400 dollar kicks? gold? and they really this cynical over there at fox? >> yeah. and the same guy, about a year ago, when trump's mugshot came out said that black people can, quote, relate to donald trump now and then it was going to increases black support because he had, quote, street grid. this is the same guy. in some way this is not just a one-off. this is part of a pattern from him. and fox news more broadly. >> the mugshot, yeah, i guess

that works for us as well. we are used to seeing fox do these types of things. we are used to seeing him demonize minorities and play up the racial angle on these things. it gets worse each time, though, seemingly. the audience socks this stuff in and takes it and goes yeah, this will work. black people will now follow donald trump because they'll get a pair of sneakers. >> it's weird because they tend to have it both ways. most most of the time they're demonizing black people. so just a few weeks ago they actually blamed 737s, the boeing tour that popped out, they blame that on boeing allowing too many black people to work on airplanes. not just one fox news show, that was an entire day of fox news coverage. that was an argument that they made. and their audience completely consumed it. that's a reflection of what they say every. day than they have one of swear they get excited about the idea and this false narrative that somehow trump is capturing all

sorts of people across the country, it's not just limited to his margaret support basis. >> here's some narrative fox passed off to on top of my head , birtherism, migrant -- stealing jobs, they had to apologize for a live broadcast showing the guardian angels roughing up a guy. that they said was a migrant who actually was from the bronx. what did i miss? >> most recently, it's claims that they are trying to secretly replace the national anthem, that that is a big part of it. >> because we thing the national -- >> it's part of a larger conspiracy to dilute white power. it is a huge problem and they are really worried about this because they have heard it played a lot more regularly and then there shows some conspiracy going. on a tie them into the white genocide great replacement theory in the fox news world. there is a henchman for the great powers, mostly jewish people that actually helping bringing in all the immigrants, are perpetuating this through their sports and their culture. these are the two big ones that you've missed at fox. >> somehow it just amazes me that people actually believe that singing the national black anthem, lift every voice and saying, is threatening to white life here in america. i want to move on a little bit further into the abyss with my

pillow guy. we have a next election denying fame, mike lindell used ads that were all over the network, offering $5 million to anyone who could go out there and disprove his election fraud claims. well, guess what? he caught the car. someone actually disapproved his claims and now he is doing the backstroke and trying to get a judge to get him off the hook. what's wrong here? and what does that say that he thought he could actually get away with the big lie like that ? >> part of it is that he got high on his own supply. he believed to a degree that he could manifest this through enough resources. and why wouldn't you believe that? he was fox a single's single largest advertiser for years, and because of that he could push all kinds of nonsensical theories not just into fox but the right-wing echo chamber. and trump was a conduit for that. so in this instance he gets out there and says nobody can prove me wrong, $5 million, and he just assumed that he could bluster and make his way

through it. >> let's take a little listen of mr. lindell. >> and the media is all down without him just attacking me from around the world. but i'm welcoming it. we have to get rid of the electronic voting machines from -- county and i do want to say my pillow, thanks all of you. we put our bathrobes on sale. 100 percent usa subpoena cotton. >> the grift is always on. >> it is. no matter how bad it gets. you've got a grift. that seems to be the endgame with the end of the day. i've got this audience and i'm going to lie to them and they're going to give me cash. >> part of what is happening is that because of what we talked about earlier, they're increasingly less crucially viable because of those extremism they have to become a close system. alex jones tell people is all that estrogen in the water attempt by ibrance to put it into your drinks to take the estrogen out, it's a close system. the rest of the right-wing media is following suit.

mike lindell is one part of. that >> i appreciate you coming on, angelo carusone, thank you so much. that does it for me. this is all in on this saturday, this thursday, rather night. i'm michael steele in for chris hayes. i will be back here at eight pm tomorrow night. and then back on msnbc for the weekend and atm on sunday and saturday with my co-host elisa menendez and symone sanders- townsend. alex when wagner starts. now good evening, alex.