realizes this is a really tough issue. you're watching republicans who are being asked about this now struggle to find the line. senator tommy tuberville yesterday, for example, of alabama struggling to figure out how he would or if he would regulate positions around access to ivf through the lens of an anti-abortion posture that most republicans have taken. so i do think this is yet another instance of going on the policy merry-go-round and watch how republicans will struggle on this. that's probably why trump has been quiet. it's the same you and i probably hear from republican operatives for the general. abortion is going to be a tough issue. this is another reminder of why. >> certainly is. we'll be following it every step of the way. nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, thank you. we'll talk to you again later on "morning joe." thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning and all week long. "morning joe" starts right now.

then you look at donald trump. it's not normal to pay $50 million in campaign contributions towards your personal court cases. it's not normal to mock the military. it's not normal to go and choose the side of a tyrant over our allies. it's not normal to have any of this happen. that's the problem. >> nikki haley making a final push in her home state ahead of tomorrow's republican presidential primary. we'll bring you more from the campaign trail in just a moment. msnbc and nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann is standing by in charleston, south carolina. also ahead, the former informant charged with lying to the fbi about president biden and his son hunter is back in custody this morning. we'll explain why he was rearrested by federal

authorities. plus, we'll show you what president biden is saying about his meeting with alexei navalny's widow and daughter. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 23rd. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson is with us this morning, as well. diving right in. republican presidential candidate nikki haley making her final pitch to voters in her home state of south carolina. with the gop primary set to take place there tomorrow. haley met with voters at an outdoor rally in georgetown yesterday, doubling down on her pledge to stay in the race despite significantly trailing frontrunner donald trump in the latest poll. >> i'm not doing this for me. like, they want -- first, they want to say that i was -- that i wanted to be vice president.

i think i've pretty much proven that is not what i'm trying to do. then they were talking about my political future. i don't care about a political future. if i did, i would have been out by now. i'm doing this for my kids. i'm doing this for your kids and your grandkids. >> joining us now from charleston, south carolina, msnbc and nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. john, you've been posted up there for a long time, getting the feel of this race. we've seen the polls. nikki haley has seen the polls. she's down big there. donald trump hasn't even put much effort in. he kind of swoops in and out for campaign events, doesn't think he's going to get much resistance there. what's your sense of things now that we're on the eve of the primary? >> yeah, well, first of all, as was the case in iowa and the case in new hampshire, my main sense of things is it's not the same without the "morning joe" crew down here. we miss you terribly in the palmetto state as we did in the granite state and the hawkeye state. my other sense of things is, you

know, this has been a strange south carolina primary for the republican party. this has been going on here since 1980. it is, in a lot of ways, the most important of the early states. in every case except for one since 1980, the winner of the south carolina republican primary has been the republican nominee. that tradition looks likely to be repeated this time around, as everyone assumes donald trump is going to win. the only question is by how much. but the way nikki haley campaigned here, the way that trump has not campaigned here, the fact that haley declared defiantly she's going on after south carolina, the way this race has played out over the course of the homestretch here this week raises a bunch of questions about what happens next, and why is nikki haley staying in? what is her end game? those are some of the questions that i've been thinking about over the course of the last week down here. they're at the core of the piece that you're about to see right now. >> reporter: south carolina has

historic sites. when it comes to presidential politics, nothing is more clear than yorktown. the venues seeking big moments, from john kerry in 2003. >> i am a candidate for president of the united states of america. >> reporter: john mccain in his final speech in the 2008 gop primary, cracking wise about henry mcmaster, then the state's attorney general and now its governor. >> do you know the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? one is a scum-sucking bottom dweller, and the other is a fish. >> reporter: from newt gingrich on the eve of the vote here in 2012, poking at mitt romney. >> i do not believe we can defeat barack obama with a massachusetts moderate. >> reporter: to donald trump in 2016, mocking a rival who would soon become his most grotesque

supplecant. >> lindsey graham is at zero. zero. >> reporter: unfurling a proposal that would soon become one of his most infamous policies. >> a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> reporter: trump, gingrich, and mccain all won the south carolina primary, so it is no wonder that nikki haley would close out her campaign on friday night at the yorktown, too, after a week spent crisscrossing the state and attacking trump more forcefully than she ever has before. >> he lost it for us in 2018, in 2020. he lost it for us in 2022. look at what happened last week. republicans lose a vote on israel. republicans lose a vote on mayorkas and the border. the rnc chair loses her job. and his fingerprints were all over it. everything he touches we lose. how many more times do we have to lose before we say, maybe he's the problem? he said that men and women who lost their lives in the military

were suckers and losers. but it is because he's never been around the veteran. donald trump has never been near a uniform. the closest he's come to harm's way is a golf ball hitting him on the golf course, and that's the truth. he sided with a tyrant who has made no bones about wanting to destroy america. the idea that trump would associate himself with putin like that over our allies who stood with us after 9/11, in that one moment, he put all of our men and women in uniform that are serving there in danger. >> reporter: haley's focus on trump and russia was pointed regarding the murder of alexei navalny. >> trump needs to answer to that. does he think putin killed him? does he think putin was right to kill him? does he think navalny was a hero? >> reporter: trump had no intention of answering to any of that or doing much else this week in south carolina, besides jetting in for a fox news town hall and saying this about navalny. >> he was a very brave guy, and it is a horrible thing. but it's happening in our

country, too. i got indicted four times. i have eight or nine trials, all because of the fact i'm in politics. >> judge arthur engoron ruled against you for almost half a billion dollars plus interest that runs every day. it's a lot of dough. >> it's a form of navalny. it is a form of communism or fascism. >> reporter: trump's unrelenting stream of self-aggrandizing putin's gibberish has had no effect on the state of the race. the former president is cruising while the former governor spent the final 48 hours mired in controversy after answering a question from our own ali vitali about the alabama supreme court ruling that, under state law, frozen embryos are tantamount to children. >> i mean, embryos to me are babies. you are talking about, to me, that's a life. so i do see where that's coming from when they talk about that. >> reporter: haley has been back pedaling from those remarks ever

since, but whatever the long-run impact, in the short term, two things are clear. haley is headed for a drubbing in her home state. she made clear at a speech this week that her home state will not be her last stand. >> south carolina will vote on saturday, but on sunday, i'll still be running for president. i'm not going anywhere. i'll keep fighting until the american people close the door. that day is not today. and it won't be on saturday. not by a long shot. >> reporter: haley noted she's used to people questioning her intentions, but the questions facing her going forward are even more about her end game. milling around charleston harbor with former republican south carolina governor sanford, i asked him why haley is staying in and where she thinks this might lead. >> normally, money kills off your campaign. she has enough money to keep going. call it hanging around the hoop phenomenon.

trump can beat trump. the legal system can beat trump. trump's next hamburger might beat trump, his health. if you hang around the hoop long enough, never know if the stray shot is coming your way and you can down it. >> reporter: the trial lawyer and former chair of the state democratic party believes that haley is playing an even longer, impossibly shrewder game than that. >> pure ambition and she's good at it. i would agree with her, that trump is going to lose. so the party is going to be looking for somebody when this election is over who can bring people together, who, you know, has been out on the stump, can help them raise money. i think she's looking at that and saying, i can say writ large, i told ya so. i told ya so. >> reporter: i asked him whether he thought, in the end, haley could fit the bill. >> when you look at the republican party, she may be that. who else is out there? she is a new generation of

republican, and she -- i think she can claim that mantle if she gets through this and trump loses, she's it. >> so interesting. i think personally it is a brilliant move, john heilemann, to stay in there, to hang in there. women are tough. you know, i think the moment, and i'm curious your thoughts on this, she didn't feel like she had to worry what she said about donald trump, took the gloves off, stopped kicking sideways, and started saying it like it is is when she really found her voice. she's a breakout star now, no matter what happens in south carolina. >> yeah, i think, mika, i think that's right. there are two ways of looking at nikki haley. here, there are people who -- everyone recognizes she has a lot of political skill. everybody also recognizes she's very ambitious. the cynical people about her say, you know, she kind of blows with the wind and has never been very consistent.

she kind of takes whatever side of an issue she thinks is beginning to get her the further test. other people sort of say she has evolved in a genuine way, to your point, and it took her some time to find her voice. maybe too late, but she's found it eventually and eventually dug in against trump and was willing to take him on in the full-throated way she has, and she's now kind of convincing in that role. i will say, as in new hampshire, the state here, a lot of people wonder how different this race would have been if she'd been going against trump, guns blazing the way she is now, if she'd done it for six months opposed to a couple months. >> i know. >> john, i'm curious, i've heard nikki haley skeptics for a very long time, talking about, oh, she's shallow, she's this, she's that, she's mechanical. i'm going to say, and, again, mika and i met her when she was a state representative in her

first debate. we were both impressed with her both on the stage and talking to her on the side. she seems really impressive. if donald trump were not in the race, she seems far more impressive than any of the opponents that she was running against. she is the last woman standing. curious what your take is of somebody that's covered a lot of campaigns, been to countless primaries, and seen people, talk about her political skills on the stage and then after the speech is over. is this someone that the republican party could be looking to if donald trump is not sidelined by something this year and if she ends up being the standardbearer four years from now. >> well, i think there are kind of three answers to that question, joe. one is pure political athlete. her performance skills, her ability to project, her ability

to connect, i think, you know, she has been very good for a long time. she has gotten better. everyone, even her most skeptical and cynical people about her here acknowledge she has really grown in the course of this presidential campaign in terms of performance skills. she's way better than she was even three months ago, and certainly better than she was a year ago. at this point, she's a pretty high-level political athlete. there's the question about what's at her core. what is she really? she has, if you look at the last, you know -- her career since governor, she was a tea party kind of figure. she became more of a centrist figure after the -- when she took down the confederate flag. she switched over and became a trumpian figure when she went to join him. she then became a trump critic. she's been in a lot of places idealogically, and to be really successful as a presidential candidate in the end, the combination of performance skills with a real mooring,

knowing who you are, knowing your core beliefs and projecting those consistently, that's necessary. then there is the third part, which is, what is the -- what happens after -- if donald trump loses or ends up in jail or both and isn't re-elected president of the united states at the end of this year, what happens to the republican party? that's the big $20 million existential question. is there a big fight for the soul of the party where some older version of republicanism rears its head up again and tries to reclaim the republican party, or has trump fundamentally corrupted the party and remade it in his image, to the point where, you know, the people like nikki haley, where she is now, and other more traditional republicans are just -- they've lost the party for good and trump has left a, if not permanent, a long-lasting imprint on it? we don't have the answers. but if there's going to be a fight for the soul of the party next year and beyond, she'll be in the fight. >> gene, you are a south carolina native here on the panel this morning. i was talking to a friend down there about tomorrow's primary,

and he said, people like nikki haley. she was a two-time governor there. elected and re-elected. they like her, but they love donald trump, talking about republicans down there. there is a different level of zeal for donald trump than there is for nikki haley. i would add in, again, and i know we talk about this a lot. there was another poll yesterday from marquette that shows in head-to-head matchups, as with all polls, donald trump and joe biden pretty much tied within the margin of error. nikki haley defeating joe biden, in this poll anyway, pretty significantly. but in most polls, winning outside the margin of error, which is her case. get me to the one-on-one, and i'll the one who will beat biden. >> yeah. so, look, there's still a lot of questions to answer about nikki haley. i think she will certainly lose tomorrow. i think she may well get drubbed. last time i was in south carolina earlier this month, i just heard trump, trump, trump.

but there is a reservoir of goodwill among republicans for nikki haley, among democrats not so much. you're not going to get a big crossover vote from democrats who might have skipped the democratic primary in order to vote for her in the republican primary. she's not going to get that. so i think heilemann asked the right questions. what's next for her? is she capable of defining what a post-trump republican party would look like? i am not sure about that. i mean, she definitely is so much better on the stump than she, i think, has ever been, and the anti-trump voice she's finding is a good one for her. but i would go a bit further than john. i think that's the first sort of authentic and, at least for the last little while, consistent voice that i've heard from nikki

haley. she has bent with the political winds over the years. you know, she took down the confederate flag after refusing to do so for a long time. absolutely wouldn't hear of it until the mother emanuel massacre. that was the moment, yes, she did it then, but it was a total 360 for her. or 180. the question is who at her core is nikki haley? we will find out, but i don't see a lot of other tremendous talent out there. i didn't see a lot of other tremendous talent in the race against trump. so it could be her. we'll have to see. she's got money. she's going to stay in the race. campaigns end when the money runs out, so we're going to be hearing from her for a whale. while. we'll see what happens. >> haley has impressed in the final stretch. as gene said, she's vowing to

stay in, has the money to do so. maybe she hangs around in case one of the criminal cases does something to trump that none of us can expect. john heilemann, she is almost certainly going to get trounced tomorrow night. let's talk about the guy who is going to win, which is donald trump. as you say, he's not been much of a presence in south carolina. he hasn't needed to be. how does -- when you talk to his aides, how do they feel the campaign is going, not just because they're going to beat nikki haley, but going forward? some red alarms are starting to flash here about some fundraising issues the former president is having, at least to this point. he is not the draw of the small dollar donors that he was in previous campaigns. >> yeah, that's a concern, jonathan. look, you have two different -- he's not the draw he once was, and he's got a new kind of draw on the funds that he hadn't had before. donald trump has various precarious finances for some time, but these legal challenges, both in terms of having to pay the attorneys and in terms of what he is getting

hit with in some case, in terms of the damages he has to pay is really extraordinary. it is another way in which trump is an unprecedented candidate. look, i mean, you know, the weird thing about this race down here, and we've seen this in other states, but it's really evident here, right, i think it was willie who just said, you know, that down here, that perfectly captures the attitude, which is, people like nikki haley. people love donald trump. the love for donald trump, though, which we're used to seeing in state after state, which is, he comes into town and he has a giant rally and there's 30,000 people, 40,000 people, they're all out here. you know, the trump event, not only has he not been here very much this week. he has a couple events today, but the rest of the week, other than the fox town hall, he hasn't been here. when he's been around, and i made this point up in new hampshire and some people on the trump-loving right got mad, but

he was not filling up arenas with the kind of energy like the events we remember from 2016, where 50,000 people were in the heat in georgia and would show up for him. the enthusiasm for him is real, but it's diminished. you really feel here, more than anything, this sense that that statistic people cite all the time, 75% of the country doesn't want this race, it's on both sides. it's a sense of acquiescence to this. people are -- you know, trump will win by north of 20 points probably tomorrow. he's not been behind. he's not been ahead by less than 20 in a year. he's been ahead of the field here by between 20 and 35 points for a year straight, so it's not one poll, yesterday's poll or last week's poll, he's had a huge lead here. but, man, you do not have trump signs in the yards here. you don't have the sense of the

fervor he once commanded. he has a hammerlock on the party, but people are kind of like, okay, i guess we have trump and biden. that's true on the republican party and on the democratic side. there's just this sort of like, okay, well, the fall is going to be i guess where the action is at. there's not a lot of energy here. that's unusual for a south carolina republican primary. >> the trump show has gotten old. >> i mean, it has. john brings up a great point. i always noticed in political campaigns, locally especially, yard signs. such a leading indicator. if you like a politician enough to put their yard sign in your front yard, that is a massive statement. it's something that i focused on in my campaign. it is something that i saw, but you don't see -- remember in '16, we would talk about driving through, you know, the country,

driving through new england, driving through the midwest, and you would see hand painted trump signs out there. there still may be some out there. there is no doubt, willie, and maybe you hear the same thing talking to your friends who were big supporters of trump in '16 and '20, it is so true, the media just obsesses. the mainstream media, the lamestream media, whatever the extreme right wants to call it, they obsess on joe biden's base not being intense. man, i just don't hear -- when i have conversations with friends that voted for trump in '16 and '20, there is no excitement in '24. it's kind of like, yeah, i'm going to vote for him. just because i don't want biden in there or kamala harris in there. they'll say that. but it's not the urgency of '16

and '20, like, yeah, man, he'll get in there and really make a huge difference. he is going to wipe the slate clean. again, i know you have maga extremists that will say that to you, but the rank and file voters, john is so right, no excitement on his side of the ledger either. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. the intense maga base isn't going anywhere. whatever that number is, we can throw out numbers and percentage of the republicans. i mean, we even started in iowa in this process this year, and the turnout was very low for that primary. even within that turnout, only half of those voters voted for donald trump. yes, he is going to sweep through all these early primaries in a way we haven't seen candidates do before. you give him that. but i think you're right, joe, outside of the intense maga base, what i hear from friends is, eh. it leaves you wondering, if there were an alternative, would they take it? well, they've had the alternative of nikki haley in the first four races. voters haven't taken it. but you do get the sense from rank and file republicans who

were fired up in 2016, that he was going to shake things up, the buy from "apprentice," he'd work with chuck schumer, everything would be different. he wins, and they're excited. 2020, a little less excited. now, as john said, there's a sense of resignation, that it is going to be biden, and it is going to be trump. i guess i'll vote for donald trump again. that's what i hear, i think the way you do, too. >> yeah. or it's just too much. don't want to vote. john heilemann, thank you so much for your report. great report. we appreciate it this morning. coming up on "morning joe," we'll show you president biden's meeting with alexei navalny's family and go through the legacy that his widow, yulia, is now taking on. plus, more fallout from the ivf ruling from the alabama supreme court with additional providers -- >> can you believe that? >> i can't. >> can you believe that donald

trump goes around bragging about terminating roe v. wade, and he's responsible not only for 10-year-old girls that are raped having to flee ohio, he's now the guy that's responsible, and he is still bragging about it. >> yeah. >> now, it's couples, women that want to have babies now being denied that right because of donald trump. >> women who want to bring a life into this world and love a child are being denied that right. >> because of donald trump. he brags about it. this is the consequence of him, quote, terminating roe. >> because of the ruling in alabama, additional providers are pausing services in the state. we'll talk about it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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impeachment inquiry was arrested again late yesterday in the lobby of his attorney's office when discussing legal strategies. smirnov's attorneys say he was arrested for the same indictment and charges he was originally arraigned on and released from custody earlier this week. prosecutors had asked the federal judge in california to detain him again after he initially was ordered released by a judge at a hearing in las vegas on tuesday. a copy of the new arrest warrant shows it was issued by a judge in california yesterday. prosecutors stated smirnov is actively peddling new lies that could impact this year's u.s. elections after meeting with russian intelligence officials a few months ago. special counsel david weiss' office, which charged smirnov, did not respond to a request for comment by nbc news. joe, a lot of people wondered why he was released in the first place given what we know about him. >> yeah. >> a judge in california gave

the arrest warrant, so he's back in custody. to remind our viewers, this is the guy who is at the core, a star witness for the committee that is seeking to impeach president biden. a star on fox news. the entire argument hinged on the idea that joe biden himself received bribes. that seems to be fabricated by this star witness who now has been discredited. >> when you're blinded by hatred of your political opponent, whether you're a news network or whether you're congress, what happens? you let russian disinformation get spread to your viewers on your news network. you let russian disinformation get into the -- i will call it, yeah, the sacred halls of the united states congress. a place that's supposed to be the people's house. instead, turned over to people

who so hate and so despise anybody who is not donald trump or who doesn't bow down to donald trump, that they actually fling open the doors wide, not only for rioters on january 6th but also throw open the doors wide for russian disinformation. >> yeah. >> and they still don't apologize for it. they were used as vehicles to promote russian disinformation. they won't apologize for that. i'll tell you, donald trump still, still hasn't come out and said anything about vladimir putin assassinating his opposition leader. >> it's grotesque. he's actually trying to parallel himself. in russia, the mother -- >> parallel himself. had a guy who was poisoned killed slowly in a gulag in the arctic. >> poisoned three times. >> poisoned three times.

killed, murdered, which is what donald trump says he wants to do to his political opponents. wants them shot for treason. also says that if that happens, he can't be held liable for it, that he is immune from that. but he is comparing himself to that guy. he's flying around on his private 757 plane, playing golf, cheating at golf. i'm sure that hasn't changed. and living in gold skyscrapers and at country clubs in palm beach, and spreading big lies every day. he compares himself to a freedom fighter who willingly goes back into the fray, willingly goes back to fight tyranny in russia. even though he knows that he could be killed.

you know, it reminds me of his attacks on john mccain. you had john mccain, who couldn't lift his arms over his head because he stayed in vietnam as a prisoner of war when he could have been released because of who his father was. he refused. he said, "no, i'm going to stay here until my band of brothers can come home with me." because of that, he spent the rest of his life not being able to raise his arms. donald trump mocks him. ridicules him. mocks people that serve in the military. mocks people and asks the question, why in the world would they ever, ever give their lives for their country? what's in it for them? >> the behavior is sick and grotesque. don't let it distract you from his connection to russia. trump's direct connection to

russia. at some point, you have to see what's happening. you have to look at this behavior and, instead of reacting and getting triggered, you've got to connect the dots. >> but what they're doing is, gene robinson, what they're doing is not being offended by donald trump kowtowing to putin. they have decided that in this personality cult, they, too, will kowtow to vladimir putin. and in this case, little mike in the house is letting ukrainians die every day. letting putin advance closer and closer to taking over that sovereign nation that wants to be connected to the west, and they're doing it. instead of criticizing donald trump for this bizarre pro-putin, pro-russia behavior, they have decided, we're going to adopt it ourselves. we're going to become the

pro-putin republican party. >> absolutely. that's what they are. it's shocking. this is a pretty desperate moment in the war in ukraine. ukrainians on the front lines literally are running out of ammunition. they're running out of weapons to fire back at the russians. they're getting outgunned in a way that they weren't previously. they lost one really strategic town, and they will be fortunate if they can hold the line where they are now until more aid arrives. but what they need is the big chunk of military aid, the weapons that only the united states has and can supply. and republican party, because of donald trump, really, is refusing to budge on that. mike johnson, the speaker,

although donald trump is the real speaker of the house now, but the nominal speaker of the house, mike johnson, has always voted against ukraine aid. he has a thing about it, and he ought to be called out on that and asked to explain why he hasn't supported aid to ukraine. but the rest of his caucus is absolutely going along with him. it is a stunning reversal of everything that the republican party used to stand for. not that long ago, ten years ago, it's just unthinkable that the republican party would be doing this. here, again, we are. in the wake of alexei navalny's death, his widow, yulia, is stepping up and, right after the break, we're going to take a look at her options moving forward in light of really this immersion training she has had working alongside her husband. we'll be right back.

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in russia, the mother of the deceased opposition leader alexei navalny says she's now seen his body but is still not allowed to claim it. speaking in a video statement yesterday, she said officials are pressuring her to agree to a secret burial. she accuses them of blackmail and claims they've told her if she doesn't agree to the secret burial, they've threatened to do something to her son's body. until yesterday, she has been turned away repeatedly from the morgue where his body was allegedly taken. she said officials allowed her to see her son's body without her lawyer present, where they told her alexei died of natural causes. meanwhile, president biden yesterday met with navalny's widow and daughter. posting these images along with a message, saying navalny's

legacy of courage will live on in yulia and dasha and the countless people across russia fighting for democracy and human rights. >> reporter: yulia navalnaya is stepping up to complete her husband's work. suddenly a widow, this mother is now the face of the fight against fascism, and she's already showing some resolve of an unbreakable leader. >> reporter: upon word of her husband's mysterious death, yulia wanted to rush to her children, to cry with them, to console them. instead, she stepped up to the podium at the munich security conference, dug in, and demanded justice.

>> reporter: for years, alexei navalny used his charismatic connection with people to organize in a country that silenced the opposition against a regime that sent many of his supporters to prison. he used every platform possible on social media. his charm and dark humor drew in supporters all in the face of impossible circumstances. he was attacked, not once but twice in 2017, when pro-kremlin associates stained his face green. navalny made it part of his message, never losing his humor. the second time, doctors believe

a toxic chemical agent was mixed in, costing him vision in his right eye. in 2020, he became violently ill during a domestic flight to moscow where russian officials wanted to keep him. >> reporter: here, you see yulia's strength on full display, as documented on hbo max. her fierce protective instincts kicked in as she tore down russian officials using the power of her voice to force the russians to relent. yulia coordinated the transport of her comatose husband to germany to time to miraculously survive, recover, and be tested. and that was yulia's next fight. her determination to find the truth. >> german officials today said toxicology tests found unequivocal traces of a nerve

agent called novichok. >> reporter: navalny could have stayed out of russia but, instead, chose to go back and fight the system from within. upon his return in 2021, he was arrested at the airport, spending the next three years in prison, separated from his family. this is yulia and alexei's last moment together ever. yulia now steps into the global spotlight in a role she didn't want but for which she received brutal, immersive training. she will likely bring with her a different approach while using the very skills that pushed her husband forward. while alexei navalny seemed to relish goating putin -- >> putin is supposed not so stupid to use this novichok. if you want to kill someone, just shoot him. >> reporter: now, yulia stands fearlessly in the face of the russian leader, without her witty, charismatic wingman,

partner, inspiration, and love of her life. the worry for yulia navalnaya is immediate and long term. where to live, how to begin again, how to stay hopeful. >> i'll add another question to everything that's on her plate. should she do this alone? of course, the answer to that question is no. i urge all people who believe in democracy, especially powerful women in the know your value community, to step up and help this woman. how can you help? you can help by supporting aid for ukraine. you can help by supporting the anti-corruption foundation that her and her husband started. obviously, you can help by voting in the next presidential election. connect the dots. see what's happening. see russian aggression pervading our politics, and see how she is standing in the face of this.

why shouldn't everybody else participate in protecting democracy and the lives who want freedom, who are murdered by dictators. >> it is so staggering. let me bring in richard haass. he, of course, is the president emeritus of the council of foreign relations. it's so stagstaggering, richard that my former party, ronald reagan's former party, we would be the first people standing up and speaking out, shouting, because we believe then, i still believe now, and i know you do, as well, that america is a city that shines brightly on the hill for all the world to see. it really is. when we are at our best. that's what republicans used to believe. no more. they are about to elect a man in south carolina and throughout the nation to represent them in the primary -- in the

presidential election, donald trump, who has nothing bad to say about vladimir putin, who time and time again defends vladimir putin, calls his invasion brilliant, and won't even speak out on the murder of navalny. won't even speak out. for young people here, richard, explain how unimaginable it is that this republican party has become so twisted and so perverted in its foreign policy under donald trump. >> joe, mia used the word grotesque. you used the word unimaginable. unconscionable comes to mind. but this is a republican party that has turned its back on its own principles, on its own dna. they've moved about as far from the party of ronald reagan and either one of the george bushes as you can move.

they've become isolationists, pro-authoritarian. they've become anti-democracy here at home. this is, you know -- we are where we are. the costs of this are extraordinary. we're a day away from the second anniversary of russia's invasion, second invasion, if you will, of ukraine, coming eight years after their invasion of 2014. ukraine has been holding its own for two years, and now you've got, because of the republicans in the house of representatives, ukrainians are losing israeli and losing lives. it is unthinkable to imagine what's to these young men when they're taken prisoner by the russians. none of this is baked into the cake. none of this needed to happen. this is simply because the united states has pulled the rug out from under ukraine. the consequences of this are awful for ukraine, for all of europe, coupled with donald trump's comments about nato.

you know, the old line, the entire world is watching. guess what? the entire world is watching. we now have a republican party that's playing with the basics of who we are here at home and what we have been for 75 years in the world. >> we had just yesterday the foreign minister of poland on set with us saying exactly that, saying, yes, we are concerned that if you pull back, vladimir putin keeps moving west into europe as a country that shares a border with ukraine. mike barnicle joins us, as well. going back to the images mika was talking about a moment ago, of president biden hugging the family of alexei navalny, there with his wife, contrast that. this isn't a political question, it's a character question. as you move into the fall, with what we saw from donald trump on this question, he won't condemn vladimir putin. he gives lip service to navalny before quickly moving to his own victimhood, comparing himself to

alexei navalny because he's been being accountable for alleged crimes he has committed in this country. contrast those images of how they're handling this crisis, which is that the president of the united states condemning vladimir putin, rushing to meet with the family, and donald trump making this about him. >> willie, you're exactly right. while everything is political these days, this is of character. this is of culture. this is of courage. i mean, on the one hand, you have a republican party that richard just eluded to, that joe has been speaking about not only today but for a long period of time, a republican party seemingly devoted to vladimir putin and whatever vladimir putin wants to accomplish by destroying, literally destroying a single country, ukraine, as well as destroying, by murder, most of his opponents, including mr. navalny, who just died because he was murdered, assassinated, actually, in prison by vladimir putin's people. that's on the one hand. on the other hand, here in

america, tomorrow, there is an election in south carolina. elections are about choices in america. they're about choices between people. you measure the people. you measure their character. you measure their courage. you measure where they want to take you into the future, what they're going to do for you and your family. it's pretty clear the contrast. on the one hand, you have donald j. trump who cannot speak to the fact that a woman, a widow, a mother cannot see her son's body. and on the other hand, you have the president of the united states, joseph r. biden, whose initial reaction is to reach out, meet with, and comfort the family of navalny. those are two character choices that america can make. one has no character. the other, the president of the united states, you're looking at it right now, that's who he is. >> the president of the united states will also be announcing in the coming hours a new set of sanctions against russia.

we should note, previous waves of sanctions were only moderately effective. putin has sanctioned proofed his economy, still doing business with india and china to keep him afloat. a lot of the sanctions to be announced today were already in the works for the two-year war anniversary. breaking news right now, chuck schumer and other lawmakers just arrived in ukraine and will meet with volodymyr zelenskyy as a show of support. schumer and other democratic lawmakers and the president try to get this aid package across the line. as we hit the two-year anniversary, we should reflect how remarkable ukraine's resistance has been. there was assessments from russian and u.s. intelligence, richard, that kyiv was going to fall in 72 hours. it has not. ukraine has done a remarkable job holding russia at bay. but project the future for us a little bit. if this aid package doesn't come through, how bad could this get? we know the tide of war is

turning. we know russia has momentum. where could this go? >> first of all, jonathan, to underscore something you said, this has been an extraordinary accomplishment. when you look at what all the so-called experts were saying two years ago, you look at what's happened, what ukraine has achieved with european and american backing is nothing short of extraordinary. essentially over the last two years, russia hasn't gained territory. ukraine still controls 80% of its territory. that's beginning to shift. i don't think it'll shift decisively. it's easier or less difficult to defend territory with diminished resource. russia's mmilitary, as we learned, not ten feet tall. my sense is you'll see a slow grind as russia has more manpower, more ammunition, more equipment. i think there will be a gradual loss of territory, particularly in the east of the country, but i don't think you'll see anything decisive. i think at the end of the year, the war will be continuing. ukraine will still be

controlling, you know, 75%, plus or minus, of its territory. i think everyone is waiting on the american election to see whether our military aid might be forthcoming then if it is not forthcoming before then. let me sort of say one other thing. you know, i see we're adding all these sanctions. i don't mean to pour cold water on it, but they're not going to be decisive. russia will continue to sell its oil and gas to other countries in the world. some aren't supporting the sanctions, so we shouldn't kid ourselves. they're not going to have a meaningful impact. everybody wants mr. putin to be held accountable. unfortunately, it is unlikely that it's going to -- that that's going to happen. this is going to be an extraordinarily difficult grind made incomparably more so by what is going on in the american congress and, above all, republicans in the house of representatives. we circle back. let's just call it for what it is. we are acting irresponsibly

here. ukraine is going to pay the price, but also the entire world. we are undermining the most fundamental of all principles there is in the world, that territory ought not to be acquired by force. if we let it happen here, and we're in the process of doing it, it won't be a turning point, but it'll gradually, gradually erode order, which is so served our interest in europe and around the world. >> it has taken many, many decades to build up. richard haass, thank you very much for your analysis this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we will speak with a woman who was denied an abortion in texas and almost died because of that. now, she plans to move her frozen embryos out of texas for fear the state could stop providing ivf following the recent ruling from alabama's supreme court. we are back in two minutes.

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go to trump's campaign. does that mean his legal bills? >> i said every penny will go toward making sure donald trump would be the 47th president, to ensuring we have great candidates to expand our lead in the house and take back the senate. >> so will it pay his legal bills? >> i'm not officially with the rnc, so i'd have to get back to you on that. >> would you support the rnc supporting his legal bills? >> i think his legal bills have already been covered at this point, and you've seen how upset the people of this country are. so much so, they started a gofundme page for my father-in-law, because they can see how egregious and outrageous all of this is that he has to deal with. i think he's already got that covered. >> lara trump suggesting republican voters would support the rnc paying her father-in-law's legal bills. judgments that are hundreds of millions of dollars. >> yeah. you know, willie, we talked about this yesterday.

this is one of the reasons why donald trump has 200,000 less contributors at this point of the election cycle than he did even four years ago. it's because so many people know, it is like giving money to jim and tammy faye bakker. they'll be giving their money to other things and not the electing of a president. it is so corrupt. it is such a grift. now, they're saying, yes, lest give even more money instead of the senate candidates, to house candidates, to field operations, to advertising. let's give more to donald trump's really bad lawyers. >> yeah. again, he's a self-proclaimed billionaire who is asking working class people to chip in $5,$10, $20 to pay his legal

bills for alleged crimes he committed. we thought he had all this money. we thought his beach club was worth $100 million. he lives on fifth avenue. he has a plane, all that stuff. you're right, joe, this is a racket. so lara trump, looks like, will be put, at least if she's not the head of the rnc, she'll be the co-head of the rnc. it is a family business. she'll do whatever he says, just like congress does what he says. she's literally a member of the family. they can dig deeper down this hole, joe, and they can keep playing to the 10%, 15%, 20%. they can keep thinking -- taking for granted all of their voters. i guess thinking they're dumb enough to think they should be giving their money away and flushing it down the toilet like this. but they're going to do it. there are enough people, as you cited in that "financial times" report, that he has 200,000 fewer donors this time around than he did four years ago, for this very reason. they don't want to give money to pay his legal bills. by the way, his campaign and pacs are burning through money

way faster than they're raising it. financially, this is a disaster that they appear to want to continue. >> jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us. joining the conversation, professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. former chairman of the republican national committee and co-host of msnbc's "the weekend," michael steele. and former aid to the clinton and obama campaigns, adrienne elrod. donald trump is still bragging about being the one to get roe v. wade overturned. during a speech at a christian media convention in nashville last night, trump took responsibility for the supreme court's decision and claimed, quote, everyone on both sides agrees with it. >> from my first day in office, i took historic action to protect the unborn like nobody

has ever done. i was able to bring this issue for the first time in 54 years back to the states, where everybody agrees on both sides, everybody agrees that's where it should be, back in the states. it was so important. everybody on both sides. >> three alabama clinics have now suspended their in vitro fertilization services in a court's ruling embryos are babies. the university of alabama at birmingham was the first to announce the change on wednesday. it's the state's largest hospital. now, two others are following suit. providers say because of the high court's ruling, they are worried about legal penalties they may now face for discarding embryos. what are they going to do with them? meanwhile, president biden is blaming the court's decision on donald trump, saying it is a direct result of overturning roe v. wade. >> well, it is. none of this would be happening. none of this would be happening. by the way, the president went

on to say, to discard -- for women's ability to make these decisions for themselves and their families is outrageous and unacceptable. >> well -- >> just like navalny, donald trump is too much of a coward to talk about the ivf decision. adrienne, we talk about all the things that are happening. women who are being denied medical care. women who are bleeding out, who can't -- who doctors say, "i can't help you. i can't touch you. i can't do anything to help you." >> can't get a termination. >> all of that is happening. as i say, underage rape victims are chased from their states, instead of being taken care of and treated and loved by their family and their own doctor, by their own preacher, by their

family's own mental health counselors if they have them, by school counselcounselors. instead, they're rushed into a station wagon and they have to flee the state because of donald trump. because of donald trump. >> because of donald trump. >> not anybody else. he has bragged he's the one who terminated roe v. wade. that's what happened there. now, now, families -- and i have family members that used ivf in the past. i know just about every family has. >> yup. >> and the joy, the joy that these children bring. >> it's life. >> it's life. it's like a miracle. now, adrienne, you have donald trump that's also terminated the right of young adults who want to have a baby and can't except through ivf. that's where we are. >> yeah. >> he did it. >> he did it.

he did it, joe. he's trying to run away from it by leaking to "the new york times" that, oh, he really supports a 16-week, you know, abortion ban, but that's not the case. he's the one who put three supreme court justices, who he knew wanted to overturn roe the moment they had the chance to on the supreme court. he is solely responsible for this domino effect we're seeing, you know, now in states like alabama. look, joe, i'll tell you this, this is something that every single american can relate to. i have so many friends who have had children, started families via ivf. i've frozen my eggs like many other friends of mine. this is something that so many of us can relate to. if you are the average voter out there who is, you know, maybe still trying to figure out who am i going to vote for? i may be undecided. you look at something like this, and you're like, these republicans are absolutely crazy. it's like they didn't think through the repercussions of overturning roe v. wade. make no mistake, this is because

of what the supreme court did. did because of what happened on dobbs. it is something that every family can relate to. when it comes to elections and trying to decide what side you're going to vote on, when you look at the real world issues that truly impact you and your families, you think about the fact that, you know, perhaps your family was created by ivf. it's something that impacts voters, and i think it'll have a massive, massive effect on the election, just like the overturning of roe had a massive effect on the 2022 midterms. >> adrienne, i'm so glad you brought up your own personal situation. so many women right now, because of science, have the option to bring a family into the world, to have life in their lives and create life, and it is being denied. this is not, like, some far away thing that sort of maybe somebody is dealing with. it's all of us. it's also setting women back decades. literally decades.

people who want to have families later in life. the 50 over 50 community, we talk about this a lot. this is a complete setback in every way at the hands, of course, willie, of donald trump. >> this is life, pure and simple. not democratic, progressive life. just life. the party of life, you'd think, would support that. one of alabama's senators appears to be confused about this issue, and you can probably guess which one. at the cpac conference yesterday, republican tommy tuberville reversed his position several times in less than two minutes when our colleague, dasha burns, asked him about the ruling in alabama. >> do you have a reaction to the alabama supreme court ruling on the fact that embryos are children? >> yeah. i was all for it. you know, you have to look at everything going on in the country. it's just an attack on families, on kids. anything we can do for the future of our young people,

because they're our number one commodity, we need to have more kids. we need to have an opportunity to do that. i thought this was the right thing to do, but -- >> ivf is used to have more children, and now they're paused at the clinics in alabama. aren't you concerned this can impact people who are trying to have kids? >> well, that's for another conversation. i think the big thing is, right now, you protect, go back to the situation and try to work it out to where it is best for everybody. i mean, that's what the whole abortion issue is about. >> but this isn't about abortion. it's about ivf and the concern that now families might not have access to it. >> but it's about the same direction, but i agree, people need to have access. people need to have -- we need more kids. we need the people to have the opportunity to have kids. you know, i'd have to look at the entire bill and how it's written. i have not seen it. >> it's a supreme court decision. >> well, i know that. i haven't looked at it. >> women won't be able to have ivf treatments. >> that's unfortunate.

unfortunate. >> what do you say to voters it'll alienate? >> it's not a big conversation. >> it is a conversation now. ivf, ivf is not a democrat or republican issue. families across the board use it. what is your message to the supreme court if this does, in fact, stop families from being able to use ivf? >> we don't need that. >> wow, joe. we need more kids. >> oh, my gosh. >> need more kids. amen to that. ivf gives the gift and the miracle of children to people who otherwise couldn't have it. obviously, no command of the issue. he was talking about a bill. he hasn't read the bill. there's no bill. this is a supreme court ruling in the state of alabama. totally twisted in knots there, as many republicans have been just in the last two days on this issue. >> in his state, by the way. it's not like dasha, who did a great job, it wasn't like dasha was asking him about what

happened in the idaho legislature. >> right. >> or in the nevada legislature. >> the supreme court. he clearly doesn't know what ivf is. >> or the oregon supreme court. you know, he had no idea. you know, it'd be like forrest gump if he got the ball and just ran in circles. he was just, michael steele, just running in circles. he was getting dizzy. he was for it. he was for ivf. he was for it. but he needed to read the bill. it's not a bill. it's your state supreme court. your state supreme court. not a bill. >> yeah. >> this is just another great example. the republican's message, think about it. donald trump yesterday bragged about terminating abortion. he bragged about terminating the right, a 50 year right in front of a christian group. at the same time, he is leaking

to "the new york times," oh, i'm for a 16-week ban. >> yeah. >> at the same time! then you have poor tommy tuberville. poor, poor tommy. >> how does he -- >> running around in circles, going, i'm for the ruling that bans ivf. i'm for that ruling, yes, it's good. it's unfortunate. it's unfortunate that women and families can't use ivf. it is fortunate. i'm for it. i'm against it. i need to read the bill. oh, it's a court case? nobody is talking about it. it just happened. >> this is a guy who stopped the promotions in the military because of abortion. >> yeah, but this is such a nightmare for republicans politically. they know it. >> yeah, you know, first off, he has no clue. he did not know what even the question was there. he had no understanding of it, no appreciation for it.

they're all reactive. they think it is going to, you know, burr lurch them in one direction, and they realize it's a dead end, so they go the other direction on the same issue. unpacking this, and mika sort of framed this the right way coming into this conversation, that this is not like anything else because it actually goes to the heart of what pro-life americans, and certainly pro-life individuals in legislatures, have argued for for a long time. in fact, kellyanne conway's own polling firm has shown nationally, 86% of americans support ivf. they understand and appreciate exactly what it is there to do for women and families and for individuals who are trying to start a family. here's the kicker.

83% of those selfsame, identified christian right evangelicals support ivf. so donald trump is standing up in front of a room bragging about abortion, right, and what he did on abortion. meanwhile, 83% of the people, 8 out of 10 of every individual in that room supports the ivf effort that allows women and individuals to create families. so they don't even understand fundamentally the downstream impacts and effects of dobbs. state legislatures, courts, judges are acting with impunity against women. that's what this boils down to. they now have control of the issue. you know, the proverbial we caught the dog, right? the car has been caught by the dog, and now the dog don't know what the hell to do with the

car. the reality of it is, the driver and the passengers in the car are like, what the hell you doing? right? they don't recognize. they don't recognize exactly what this issue means to so many americans out there. so you're going to see more scrambling. they want to get off of this so fast, joe, it'd make your head swim. >> yeah. >> this issue is, like dobbs, like dobbs, it is equally poisonous to their political ambitions because they fundamentally don't understand the impact it is having on women and families. >> yeah, i mean, willie, it's actually numerically worse than dobbs. 70% of americans for years did not want roe to be overturned. it's probably 60/40 now. 65/35. it is impacting every single election. this is an 80/20 issue. if you look at kellyanne conway's poll that was just

cited that michael brought up, it's like an 80%, maybe an 85% issue, and you have pro-trump activists out there now talking about contraception. >> yeah. >> like, they're not going to end by taking away one right of women that has been constitutionally protected for 50 years. it goes from that to 10-year-old rape victims to ivf, and you watch, they're saying it, they're telling you, thomas, justice thomas said it, they're coming for contraception next. they'll lie, but that's what their activists want to do. these radical, radical right-wing activists have infiltrated the alabama supreme court. they will infiltrate another court, and you watch, griswold v

connecticut, and the right for women to have contraception, that's coming down the road if this continues, if donald trump supporters have their way. >> yeah, it only follows this line of logic. if embryos are children, then why wouldn't, you know, a plan b pill or something like that, you could make the same category. we should remind people that this case in the alabama state supreme court was about unintentionally, a lab technician dropped a container of embryos, destroying the embryos, and the people suing said, you effectively killed our unborn child. now, the alabama supreme court agreed that those embryos are, in fact, babies and children. eddie glaude, first of all, you have to wonder if senator tuberville has a staff. are there people around him who could have at least informed him about this case and the ruling that came down and given him something to say, even if he's spinning? i guess not. but largely point here that joe and michael were just making,

this is a -- ivf is something that has touched and blessed the lives of people across political parties, across beliefs, across religions. it has given life. senator tuberville is saying, we need more kids. well, here's a way to get them. you get more kids from ivf. it's been a miracle of life and a blessing to so many families. that's why you've heard transcendent outrage because so many have enjoyed the benefits of ivf. >> we've not come to expect logic from tuberville whenever he speaks. you're right to ask the question, whether or not he has a staff or not. i'm interested in what joe just said about the radical extremists. there's a connection between donald trump speaking before those religious broadcasters and the judge who wrote this decision, the state judge who wrote this decision, tom parker, right? so he invoked a kind of theological rational, joe, for

his decision. even within this christian evangelical community, there are those who hold a radical position that run against, right, the majority of folks within their community. so how does one speak to this? it is not simply trump and trumpists, it's this radical element within white evangelical communities or christian evangelical communities broadly who are pushing this agenda, that are affecting the way in which people can imagine building a family or the possibility of a family, joe. >> you know, you say white evangelical communities, but, you know, mike barnicle, it's really, if you look at the supreme court, it's a very extreme view of catholicism that leonard leo has been able to

foist onto the united states supreme court. he's been given over $1 billion to do the sorts of things that the supreme court is doing, the sorts of things they're doing in alabama, and it's very clear, his mission. people can certainly have beliefs and be clear with their mission. his mission is to foist what i think most americans would consider, most americans would consider a very, very extreme view of catholicism. and to foist that on the supreme court. whether it's in, you know, washington, d.c., or alabama or sacramento, you name it. it's happening. extremists that represent the views of 15%, 20%, 25% of americans, they're taking away the rights of 100% of women. they're taking away the rights of young families or young

couples or women who want to have families. again, we all know, we all know those people. we all have them in our own families. now, it was first a war on women's constitutional rights that they've had for 50 years. then it was a war on young rape victims chased out of their state. now, it's a war on ivf. next, it'll be war on contraception. believe them when they tell you who they are. >> well, they tell us who they are each and every day lately. joe, leonard leo clearly never met a jesuit. he was not instructed by a jesuit, and his rigidity has resulted in what we're talking about today. this conversation and this issue has become deeply disturbing as well as depressing. the depression you just saw in tommy tuberville. tommy tuberville is a nobody.

an ignorant nobody. but what he stands for, unfortunately, is what a certain portion of his political party, one of the two major political parties, the republican party, now standsillogic of it is almo epidemic in terms of its growth and in terms of people buying into it. otherwise sane people. it is this, on the one hand, given the alabama court decision, on the one hand, people want to protect life. they're rigid on abortion. women have had to flee states to go to other states to take care of their reproductive health because of the rigidity of some right to life people. on the other hand, with the alabama supreme court decision, they want to prevent life. so you want to protect life on one hand and prevent life on the

other. where is the logic in that? >> it makes no sense at all. forgive me, i'm super triggered by all of this. i can't help but to get incredibly emotional and angry about it. because, first of all, if the embryos are children, what do you plan to do with them, alabama? that would be question number one. adrienne elrod, if i could talk to you for a second, because you and i know the disgusting truth about the men make these decisions, about donald trump, about ken paxton, tommy tuberville. i mean, the list goes on. these craggily, gross, old men making these decisions. >> yeah. >> and you know, you know, whether any types of men like this who have wives or girlfriends or daughters or sisters who are in an emergency with blood streaming down their legs, who need emergency care, that they will be the first to get a private jet and get them

out of dodge to a place where they can get that care. you know it, and i know it. >> of course. >> you know and i know they don't believe a damn thing about what they're doing because they have a different reality. they don't care what they're doing to women across america. they love that they're triggering us. they love that they're hurting us because the truth, the disgusting truth is it doesn't apply to them. >> correct. >> at all. >> yeah, mika, it is an assault on women that we've seen. it's been around for a long time, but it really came to manifestation when trump became president in 2016. it sort of gave these crusty men, as you described him, who seem to have the same kind of look, it gave them the power in their minds to come forward and pass some of these draconian laws and impose some of these draconian restrictions on women. it's all about taking back power for the men. again, you and i both know plenty of men, including everyone on this show right now,

who stand with women, who think that, you know, this alabama ruling is ridiculous and horrible. but there are some men out there who want to get the power back from the women, who can't stand the fact that women have become so successful over the past few decades. this is their way of trying to get back to an era of the 1950s, where women stayed at home, men were in full control. we're not going to stand for it. this is only going to add fuel to the fire for women to come out and support a democratic ticket, to re-elect president biden, vice president harris. you know, this is the manifestation of what putting trump in office, getting three conservative supreme court justices on the court, this is the manifestation of that. >> adrienne elrod, thank you very much. michael steele, thank you, as well. we will be watching "the weekend" saturday and sunday mornings right here on msnbc. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll look at the state of the war in ukraine as the country prepares to mark two

years of defending itself from an unprovoked russian invasion. congresswoman mikie sherrill of new jersey will join us on the heels of a trip to the munich security conference and a meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. but first -- >> jack is really excited. >> oh, jack? >> about sunday. >> right, of course. >> of course he is. he's so excited about what willie has coming up on sunday. i don't know how he knows, but it's like, willie, he obviously followed three things very closely. he follows alabama recruiting, right? >> sure. >> he follows red sox trade deadline, you know, what are the sox doing? he's wondering the they're going to get montgomery or snell. >> nothing. >> he's obsessed over there. the number three bookmark, "sunday today." what's uncle willie have on? he's excited about this sunday. >> great buildup. if he likes five star recruits from alabama recruiting, i have a five star

actress. sheryl lee ralph of "abbott elementary." >> i love her. >> she's having her moment. she's had a long career. >> exciting. >> she's getting her star on the hollywood walk of fame. she won an emmy for "abbott elementary." it is a great show about our public schools and the work teachers do. great conversation with a life force, a light, sheryl lee ralph, coming up on nbc "sunday today. and we'll be back here with "morning joe" on a friday morning.

ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. do you know roughly how many ukrainians have died so far in the war? >> translator: we know about tens of thousands of people have

been killed or tens of thousands children being deported. we know about this. we compare the number of soldiers killed. i would say the ratio is one to five. one soldier killed in action equals to five russian soldiers killed in action. that's the approximate statistic. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy on the front lines telling fox news that ukraine has far fewer losses on the battlefield than russia as the war nears two full years now. joining us now, democrat mikie sherrill of new jersey. she is a navy veteran and member of the house armed services committee. she recently returned from the munich security conference, where she met with president zelenskyy. thanks very much for coming back on the show. it's good to see you. any more you can tell us from a takeaway from the munich security conference about your

conversation with ukrainian president zelenskyy? also, is there any hope of getting your republican colleagues to understand the urgency here? >> sure. thanks again for having me. mika, as you know, we had a strong bipartisan delegation to the munich security conference, which was a gathering of so many of our nato allies as well as president zelenskyy, our vice president was there to talk about the u.s. agenda. i think what you heard again and again and again was this concern, is the united states going to continue to support the fight in ukraine? it's so critically important. then in speaking to president zelenskyy, i've met with him several times over the years. the first being about ten days before russia invaded. at turns, he's been frustrated with the pace of u.s. support. sometimes he's been goading the u.s. to do more. this meeting, he was calmly

resolved. he was going to find a way forward. it reminded me so much, as we go back to washington and have to fight to get this supplemental passed, it reminded me of a saying we had in the military. lead, follow, or get out of the way. right now, that is exactly what speaker johnson has to do. he has to show leadership in passing the supplemental. if he can't do that, he has to follow some other plan. the plan set out by the senate and get that on the floor. or he just has to get out of the way. no matter what, the senate bipartisan bill passed by over 70 members of the senate is the path forward. we have to get that on the floor of the house, and we have to get that passed. >> congresswoman, good morning. but as you know, speaker johnson and other republicans have said that bill is a nonstarter. despite pressure from evensen even senate republicans saying, take this, james lankford said,

"take the deal. it's as good as we'll get on the border, plus we get the aid out to allies." in your conversations, perhaps privately with republicans, is there anything that would persuade them, that would change their view on this, to go along and at least get the aid to ukraine? >> well, willie, i'm hopeful that we can see a path forward because we know that despite president trump really undermining our ability to secure our border and to fund the programs necessary at the border, he was not able to take down the supplemental in the senate. despite work to do so. we saw the senate passing it with overwhelming numbers. we know in the house support has passed previously with over 300 members. so my hope is if we can get that vote on the floor, we can get the support we need to get the supplemental passed, support ukraine, israel, asia, make sure that we have the humanitarian

support that's so desperately needed right now in gaza and elsewhere, and move forward with our global leadership. >> congresswoman, good morning. let's shift regions and speak about israel, which is another stop on your international travels. you were at the rafah crossing, which right now is the center of conversation in the conflict in gaza. the united states, the white house has warned prime minister netanyahu to not launch a full-out assault there unless civilians can be evacuated. over a million palestinians are in that region. tell us what you saw there, the conditions, and do you think there is a place for those civilians to go? if not, what would the consequences be? >> so you're exactly right. after i left munich with our european allies and spoke to the president of iraq and the prime minister of lebanon, and, of course, before i even left, we'd spoke to king abdullah who came

to the armed services committee. i then traveled to cairo, amman, met with leadership there, met at the rafah crossing, and then leadership in israel. what i saw is a deep need to get humanitarian aid into gaza and, of course, when i was in israel, a deep need to get the hostages released. every day that goes by threatens the lives of people, the palestinians throughout gaza and threatens the life of those hostages that are now being held. we are getting reports several are, you know, presumed dead at this point. we have got to gain their release. so when i met with netanyahu, that's what i said. i said, "look, you've got to negotiate this cease-fire. we've got to negotiate the temporary cease-fire, which we hope will lead to a more permanent cease-fire, but we've got to negotiate that for the release of the hostages, to get

in there, get the humanitarian aid to the palestinians in gaza, and then move forward in the region with a two-state solution." >> democratic congresswoman mikie sherrill of new jersey, thank you very much. on that note, it's been 139 days since hamas terrorists attacked israel, killing more than 1,100 people and taking more than 200 others hostage. among them was aviva siegel and her american husband, keith, who were kidnapped from a kibbutz in southern israel on october 7th. she was released 51 days later during the temporary truce in november. however, aviva's husband, keith, was not, and he remains in hamas captivity. joining us now from jerusalem is nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter. molly, you spoke with aviva. what did you learn from your conversations with her? >> reporter: mika, we did.

we had a wide-ranging conversation with aviva and also her brother-in-law, keith's brother, lee siegel. picking up on what the congresswoman was just talking about, that's the american pressure that these hostage families want to see on the israeli government. responding to kind of domestic pressure, we've seen protests almost every night, mika, here in jerusalem, in tel-aviv, as well, responding to the domestic pressure and the american pressure. we've learned today from an israeli official that an israeli delegation will be going to paris for another round of negotiations. mika, this comes after benny gantz hinted that there was progress. this comes after the defense minister talked about, quote, expanded authorities for hostage negotiators. when you ask women like aviva siegel, who survived 51 days in captivity, who is fighting relentlessly for her husband's relief, she says the israeli government is not doing enough. take a listen. >> i think netanyahu has forgotten about keith and forgotten to be human and bring the human people back. they need to come back as soon

as possible. >> reporter: do you think his priorities lie elsewhere? >> i think that bibi netanyahu is thinking about himself more than thinking about us and thinking about keith. he needs to think about keith and get him out as soon as possible. >> reporter: when you say think about him, you think he is prioritizing the war? >> i think so. he needs to stop the war and show us he is doing something to bring keith home as soon as possible. >> reporter: yesterday, u.s. middle east envoy was here, mika. he met with prime minister netanyahu. he also met with american hostage families, including the siegels. when talking to the siegels about the support they're getting from the israeli government and from the american government, they really feel seen and heard by the american government. aviva siegel has been in a meeting with president biden. she said he looked her in her eyes and really understood not only what she is going through what the urgency that she wants to get her husband out. really, clearly, both her and lee made the point that they feel like prime minister

netanyahu has prix prioritized political survival over keith's survival, and they're really frustrated. we have more of aviva's story on nbc platforms. >> foreign correspondent molly hunter, thank you very much for bringing us that story. coming up, our next guest is suing texas after she says she nearly died when doctors delayed giving her a medically necessary abortion. now, she's afraid texas will follow alabama's lead on in vitro fertilization and is planning to move her frozen embryos out of state. she joins us to talk about that straight ahead on "morning joe."

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with the south carolina primary a day away, the state senator tim scott yesterday posted another endorsement of former president trump on social media. the video comes as scott says he

agrees with donald trump that scott is better campaigning for trump than he was for himself. while stumping for the former president yesterday, senator scott was asked about comments trump made earlier in the week about the south carolina senator potentially being his running mate. here are trump's remarks followed by scott's response. >> a lot of people are talking about that gentleman right over there. [ applause ] he's been so great. he's been a great advocate. i have to say, in a very positive way, tim scott, he has been much better for me than he was for himself. i watched his campaign, and he doesn't like talking about himself. but, boy, does he talk about trump. i said, tim, you're better for me than you were for yourself. >> having a conversation about the future of america and president trump being that leader is very easy. there's no internal conversation about what are you doing?

the truth of the matter is i'm far better encouraging and being excited and motivated for president trump than i was for myself. >> senator scott, on the foreign relations committee, was asked about trump comparing himself to the now dead russian opposition leader alexei navalny this week. >> do you agree with trump likening him having to pay a fine in the new york civil fraud trial to the killing of navalny? >> i think the one thing we can get out of the judgment in new york is that every business person peers to the future of their business because of the oppressive nature of the courts in new york. they're now considering leaving the state. it is insane you'd seen that judgment coming out. >> what about the comparison to alexei navalny? specifically, the comparison to navalny. >> never, notably, answered the question, which is what to you think about donald trump comparing himself to alexei navalny? eddie glaude, it's hard to watch, honestly, particularly

the first clip at the town hall when he looks over and metaphorically pats tim scott on the head, saying, you're doing a good job talking about me. tim scott is a well-liked senator in the senate, but so desperate, i guess, to be the vice president, he'll do and say anything for donald trump. >> i don't know what's in the water in south carolina in terms of their senators, between lindsey graham and tim scott, what is going on, doc? when you think about it, these people are willing to sell their souls. i don't know what it is that tim scott is trying to achieve here. although, what is very clear, right, is that he seems to have lost any center of moral gravity. he is willing to do anything to grovel at the feet of this man. it's and it's disappointing. it's not only disappointing in terms of him as a human being, but it's disappointing in terms of all of those folk who sacrificed to make his life

possible, what they had to endure in order to make him possible. it's deeply, deeply disappointing and depressing. >> all right. speaking of incredibly depressing and our next guest is really the face of the fight for women's health care. this woman is suing texas over its strict anti-abortion laws, and she says now she's going to move her frozen embryos out of the state over fears texas could soon stop providing in vitro fertilization treatments like we're seeing happen in alabama. amanda zarovski almost died in 2022 after doctors refused to give her an abortion. she had been suffering complications while 18 weeks pregnant. eventually she showed signs of a life-threatening infection, and doctors finally performed the procedure.

while amanda survived, she says the infection and lack of treatment she got led to lasting damage to her fallopian tubes. now she and her husband have turned to in vitro fertilization in an attempt to start a family, and amanda joins us now. amanda, i'm so sorry. i'm so sorry this is happening to you, and to so many women across the country. can you first tell us a little bit more about the experience that led you then to turn to in vitro? >> absolutely. thank you for having me first and foremost, and for shedding light on this topic. i think it's really important to so many people. so what happened to me as a result of the abortion bans in texas directly impacted my fertility, and a of i recovered, after i survived, my husband and i were advised to go straight to

ivf in order to try to conceive and grow our family which we're so desperate to have, and it took several rounds of ivf before we created a number of embryos, but now with this ruling in alabama, i fear that because of, you know, the ability that texas has to potentially pass something similar, i fear for the safety of my future and my embryos, and so we're getting them out of here. >> so if you're able to get them out of here, i'm hoping you'll still be able to pursue your fight really to have a family, but what do you say to officials in alabama, to the supreme court ruling -- i'm sorry. the state's supreme court ruling in alabama, and now you know this will -- this will take over and spread to other states, that

embryos are children. it makes no sense because what will alabama do with all of those embryos? how far do you think this will go, and what do you think this is doing to women in america overall? >> i mean, that is my greatest fear is that we don't know how far this is going to go. the slope here is so slippery, and it's so steep, and it's terrifying. if you're fortunate enough to have little to no experience with ivf, you don't know the layers of fear that are now compounding our ability to have a family, right? and, you know, this happened in alabama and depending on what happens in november, this could be a nationwide situation, right? trump has already said that he supports a nationwide abortion ban, and this is his fault because he very proudly touts the fact that he overturned roe

v. wade and because of the supreme court justices that he appointed and the fall of roe now states have the ability to pass these draconian laws, and we have no idea how far it's going to go, and that's what's absolutely terrifying. >> amanda, you almost died because you couldn't get the termination that you needed during your pregnancy that was causing you immense pain and threatening your life, and now in the ivf journey, can you explain to those, like, i don't know tommy tuberville who doesn't seem to know what ivf is? the stress, the waiting, the process, the pain of ivf, of that journey, of what it's like, you know, without these bans now that are hitting states like alabama? >> yes. thank you for asking that. any person who has been through ivf will tell you, it is one of

the most grueling, most difficult things a person can go through not just physically, but emotionally, psychologically. there is so much anxiety. there is so much unknown. there is so much fear, and now these laws that are now in effect in alabama and could spread across the country, thanks to trump, you know, it just adds another layer of fear, and you're already going through the most grueling thing imaginable, and now we have to worry about the safety of our embryos. we have to worry about if we can be held liable if something goes wrong. the process of ivf is extremely precise and intricate, but there are lots of scenarios where things can go wrong, and that's just the nature of the process. >> right. >> if something goes wrong, am i now going to be held liable for wrongful death because science didn't fall in my favor?

i mean, the fear is just massive. >> ivf alone, you're dealing with the constant stress of the odds, the shots, the appointments, the changes in your body, the hope your body will perform, the hope the procedure will perform, the hope the numbers will land in your direction, the waiting, the constant waiting and hoping, and i'm wondering if you could answer this question. it's so hard. it's so grueling as you say. why do you do it? >> because we want a family. we want kids more than anything, and it's something that, you know, i feel very fortunate that ivf was an option for my husband and i, and that it is something that we can still pursue, but now i'm living in constant fear that that choice is going to be taken away from me. >> amanda zurawski, thank you very much for coming on the show. we'll be thinking of you.

hopefully you can come back and update us and i hope you have success in your pursuit of having a family despite -- despite what is happening. thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you so much. thanks for having me. coming up, we're going to get an update on that massive outage yesterday for at&t customers, and what the company is saying about it. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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it's not normal to mock the military. it's not normal to go and choose the side of a tyrant over our allies. it's not normal to have any of this happen. that's the problem. >> nikki haley making a final push in her home state ahead of tomorrow's republican presidential primary. we'll bring you more from the campaign trail in just a moment. msnbc national affairs analyst jonathan highland is standing by. the former fbi informant charged with lying about joe biden and hunter, is in custody this morning. and we're talking about joe biden's meeting with alexei navalny's widow and daughter. good morning, and welcome to

"morning joe." it is friday, february 23rd. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early", jonathan lemire and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson is with us as well. nikki haley making her final pitch to voters in her home state of south carolina with the gop primary set to take place there tomorrow. haley met with voters at an outdoor rally in georgetown yesterday, doubling down on her pledge to stay in the race despite significantly trailing front-runner donald trump in the latest polls. >> i'm not doing this for me, like, they want -- first they want to say that i wanted to be vice president. i think i've pretty much proven that is not what i'm trying to do. then they were talking about my political future. i don't care about a political future. if i did, i would have been out

by now. aisle doing this for my kids. i'm doing this for your kids and your grandkids. >> and joining us now from charleston, south carolina, nbc and msnbc news analyst, john heilemann. you have seen this race and we've seen the polls. donald trump hasn't put much effort in. he swoops in and out for campaign events and doesn't think he'll get much resistance there. what's your sense of things now that we're on the eve of the primary? >> you know, well, first of all has been mostly the case in iowa and new hampshire, my main sense of things is it's not the same without the "morning joe" crew down here. we miss you terribly in the palmetto state as we did in the hawkeye state. this is a strange south carolina primary. this has been going on since 1980.

in a lot of ways, this is the most important of the early states. in every case except for one, 1980, the winner of the republican primary has been the republican nominee. that tradition looks likely to be repeated this time around as everyone assumes donald trump will win. the only question is by how much, but the way nikki haley has campaigned here, the way that trump has not campaigned here and the way nikki haley has declared defiantly she's going on after south carolina, and the homestretch here, raises a bunch of questions about what happens next and why is nikki haley staying in. what is her end game? those are some of the questions i have been thinking about over the course of the last week down here, and they're at the core of the piece that you are about to see right now. >> south carolina's full historic sights -- >> when it comes to presidential politics -- >> nothing says south carolina like charleston harbor and yorktown. over the past 30 years, the

palmetto state has been pivotal in both parties and both candidates seeking big campaign moments from john kerry in 2003 -- >> i am a candidate for president of the united states of america. >> reporter: to john mccain in his final speech of 2008 gop primary, cracking wise about henry mcmaster, and then the general and its governor. >> do you know the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? one is a scum-sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish. >> reporter: and from newt gingrich on the eve of the vote here in 2012 poking at mitt romney. >> i do not believe we can defeat barack obama with a massachusetts moderate. >> reporter: to donald trump in 2016, mocking a rival who'd soon become his most grotesque supplicant. >> he's at zero.

>> reporter: and proposing what would become one of his most infamous policies. >> a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> reporter: trump and mccain won the south carolina primary. after a week spent crisscrossing the state and attacking trump more forcefully than she's ever done before. >> he lost it for us in 2018. he lost it for us in 2020. he lost it for us in 2022, but look at what happened last week. republicans lose a vote on israel. republicans lose a vote on mayorkas and the border. the rnc chair loses her job, and his fingerprints were all over it. everything he touches, we lose. how many more times do we have to lose before we say, maybe he's the problem? he said that men and women who lost their lives in the military were suckers and losers, but it's because he's never been around a veteran. donald trump's never been near a

uniform. the closest he's come to harm's way is a golf ball hitting him on the golf course and that'sst the truth. he sided with a tyrant who's made no bones about destroying america. someone who sides with putin like that over our allies who stood with us after 9/11. in that one moment, he put all of our men and women in uniform that are serving there in danger. >> reporter: haley's focus on trump and russia was pointed regarding the murder of alexei navalny. >> trump needs to answer to that. does he think putin killed him? does he think putin was right to kill him, and does he think navalny was a hero? >> reporter: trump had no intention to answering to any of that or doing much else this week in south carolina, besides jetting in for a fox news town hall and saying this about navalny. >> he was a very brave guy and it's a horrible thing, but it's happening in our country too. i got indicted four times. i have eight or nine trials all because of the fact that i'm in politics.

>> this judge ruled against you for almost half a billion dollars plus interest that runs every day. it's a lot of -- >> it's a form of navalny. it is a form of communism or fascism. >> reporter: yet trump's unrelenting stream of gibberish hasn't affected the race. the former president is cruising while the former governor spent the last few hours mired in criticism after talking about the supreme court ruling that under state law, frozen embryos are tantamount to children. >> embryos to me are babies. you are talking about, to me, that's a life, and so i do see where that's coming from when they talk about that. >> reporter: haley has been back pedaling from that ever since. in the short-term, two things are clear. haley is headed for an absolute drubing in her home state, and she made clear at a speech in

greenville, her home state will not be her last stand. >> south carolina will vote on saturday. but on sunday, i'll still be running for president. i'm not going anywhere. i'll keep fighting until the american people close the door. that day is not today, and it won't be on saturday, not by a long shot. >> reporter: haley noted in greenville that she's used to people questioning her intentions, but the questions facing her going forward are even more about her end game. hilling around charleston harbor with mark sanford, i asked him where he thinks haley is staying in and where she imagines this all might lead. >> normally money kills you off in a campaign. she's got enough money to keep going. she's got -- we call it hanging around the hoop phenomenon wherein trump can beat trump. the legal system might beat trump. trump's next hamburger might beat trump, his health, and if

you hang around the hoop long enough, you never know if a straight shot is coming your way and you can down it. >> reporter: but the trial lawyer and chair of the state democratic party believes that haley is playing an even longer and impossibly shrewder game than that. >> she's pure ambition and she's good at it. i would agree with her that trump is going to lose. so the party's going to be looking for somebody when this election's over who can bring people together, who, you know, has been out on the stump, can help them raise money. i think she's looking at that and saying, i can say in writ large, i told you so. i told you so. >> reporter: i asked whether he thought in the end, haley could fit that bill. >> when you look at the republican party, she may be that. who else is out there? she is a new generation of republican, and i think she can claim that mantle if she gets through this, and trump loses.

she's it. >> it's so interesting. i think personally, i think it's a brilliant move, john heilemann, to stay in there, and hang in there. women are tough, and, you know, i think the moment, and i'm curious of your thoughts on this. she didn't feel like she to worry what she said about donald trump, took the gloves off, and that's when she found other voice and she's breakout star now no matter what happens in south carolina. >> yeah. i think, mika, i think that's right. there are two different ways to look at nikki haley, and here there are people who -- everyone recognizes she has a lot of political skill. everyone else recognizes she's very ambitious and that there are those -- the cynical people about her say, you know, she kind of blows with the wind and she's never been very consistent. she kind of takes whatever side of an issue that she thinks is going to get her the furthest. other people sort of say she has evolved in a genuine way to your

kind of point and that it took her some time to find her voice. it may be too late, but she found it eventually, and dug in against trump and she was willing to take him on in the full way she has, and she's kind of convincing in that role. as of new hampshire, the case of the state here, a lot of people wonder how different this race would have been if she had been going against trump guns blazing the way she is now, if she'd been doing that for six months, as opposed to just a couple of months. >> john, i'm curious. i've heard nikki haley skeptics talking for a long time. she's shallow. she's this. she's that. she's mechanical. i'm going to say, and mika and i met her when she was a state representative in her first debate. we were both impressed with her both on the stage and talking to her on the side. she seems really impressive.

if donald trump were not in the race, she seems far more impressive than any of the opponents that she was running against. she is the last woman standing. i'm curious what your take is of somebody that's covered a lot of campaigns, been to countless primaries, and seen people. talk about her political skills on the stage and then after the speech is over. is this someone that the republican party could be looking to if donald trump is not sidelined by something this year, and if she ends up being the standard bearer four years from now? >> well, i think there are kind of three answers to that question, joe. one is kind of pure political athlete, you know? her performance skills, her ability to project, her ability to connect, you know, i think she has been very good for a long time. she has gotten better -- everyone. even her most skeptical and

cynical people here acknowledge she has grown. she's way better than she was even three months ago and certainly better than she was a year ago. so she's a -- at this point, she's a pretty high-level political athlete. there's a question about what's in her core. what is she really? she has, if you look at the last, you know, her career since she became governor, she was a tea party kind of figure. she became more of a centrist figure after -- when she took down the confederate flag and then switched over and became a trumpian figure when she joined him and then became a trump critic. she's been a lot of places ideologically, and to be a successful presidential candidate, the combination of performance skills and a mooring of knowing who you are, and what your core beliefs are and projecting them consistently, that's necessary, and then there's the third part which is, what happens after -- if donald

trump loses or ends up in jail or both or isn't elected president of the united states at the end of this year, what happens to the republican party? that is, like, the big $20 million existential question. is there a big fight for the soul of the party where some older version of republicanism rears its ed up again and tries to reclaim the republican party or has trump fundamentally damaged the party and left people like nikki haley where she is now and other traditional republicans, lost in the party for good? those are the questions we don't know the answers to, but if there's going to be a big fight for the soul of the party next year and beyond, she'll be in that fight. >> gene, you are a south carolina native here on the panel here this morning. i was talking to friend down there about tomorrow's primary, and he said, people like nikki haley, a two-time governor, elected and re-elected. they like her, but they love donald trump talking about republicans down there.

there is that -- a different level of zeal for donald trump than there is for nikki haley. i would add in again, and there was another poll from marquette that shows in head to head matchups, as with all polls, donald trump and joe biden pretty much tied within the margin of error, and nikki haley defeating joe biden in this poll anyway, pretty significantly, but in most polls, winning outside the margin of error which is her case. get me to that one-on-one and i will beat biden. >> yeah, so look. there's still a lot of questions to answer about nikki haley. i think she will certainly lose tomorrow. i think she may well get drubed, but last time i was in south carolina earlier this month, i just heard trump, trump, trump, and -- but there is a reservoir of good will among republicans for nikki haley. among democrats not so much. you're not going to get a big

crossover vote from democrats who might have skipped the democratic primary in order to vote for her in the republican primary. she's not going to get that. so i think heilemann asks the right questions, you know, what's next for her, and is she capable of defining what a post-trump republican party would look like? i am not sure about that. i mean, she -- she definitely is so much better on the stump than she, i think, has ever been, and the anti-trump voice that she's finding is a good one for her, but i would -- i would go a bit further than john. i think that's a first sort of authentic and at least for the last little while, consistent voice, that i have heard from nikki haley. she has bent with the political winds over the years, you know. she took down the confederate flag after refusing to do so for

a long time. absolutely wouldn't hear of it until the mother emmanuel massacre, and she did it then, but that was a total 360 for her, or, you know, 180. the question is who at her core is nikki haley, and we will find out, but i don't see a lot of other, you know, tremendous talent out there. i didn't see a lot of other tremendous talent in the race against trump. so -- so it could be her. we'll have to see. she's got money. she's going to stay in the race, and campaign then when the money runs out. we'll be hearing from her for a while, and we'll see what happens. coming up, former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul joins the conversation ahead of tomorrow's two-year anniversary of the war in ukraine. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ukraine. "morning joe" is back in a moment

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the former informant charged with lying to the fbi about president biden and his son hunter at the very heart, and is back in custody this morning. alexander smirnoff was arrested again late yesterday in the lobby of his attorney's office while meeting with him to discuss legal strategy. in a court filing, smirnoff's attorneys say he was arrested for a second time on the same indictment on charges he was originally arraigned on and released from custody early they are week. prosecutors had asked the federal judge in california to

detain him again after he initially was ordered released by a judge at hearing in las vegas on tuesday. a copy of the arrest warrant shows it was issued yesterday. prosecutors say smirnoff is actively peddling new lies that could impact this year's u.s. elections after meeting with russian intelligence officials a few months ago. david weiss' office which charged smirnoff did not respond to a request for comment by nbc news. a lot of people wondered why he was released in the first place given what we know about him. a judge in california gave the arrest warrant. he is back in custody, but to remind our viewers, this is the guy who is at the core, a star witness for a committee that is seeking to impeach president biden, a star on fox news. the entire argument hinged on the idea that joe biden himself had received $5 million in bribes. that turns out to be completely fabricated by this star witness who now has been totally

discredited. >> so when you're blinded by hatred of your political opponent, whether you're a news network or whether you're congress, what happens? you let russian disinformation get spread to your viewers on your news network. you let russian disinformation get into the -- i will call it, yeah. the sacred halls of the united states congress, a place that's supposed to be the people's house, and instead turned over to people who so hate and so despise anybody who's not donald trump or doesn't bow down to donald trump, that they actually fling open the doors wide not only for rioters on january the 6th, but also throw open the doors wide for russian disinformation. >> yeah. >> and they still don't apologize for it.

they were used as vehicles to promote russian disinformation. they won't apologize for that, and i'll tell you, donald trump still -- still hasn't come out and said anything about vladimir putin assassinating his opposition leader. >> it's grotesque. he's actually trying to parallel himself in russia, the mother -- >> parallel himself. they had a guy who was poisoned, killed slowly in a gulag in the arctic. >> poisoned three times. >> poisoned three times, killed, murdered, which is what donald trump says he wants to do to his political opponents, he wants them shot for treason, and also says that if that happens, he can't be held liable for it, that he's immune from that, but he's comparing himself to that guy. he's flying around on his

private 757 plane, playing golf, cheating at golf i'm sure that hasn't changed, and living in gold skyscrapers and at country clubs in palm beach, and spreading big lies every day, and he compares himself to a freedom fighter who willingly goes back into the fray, willingly goes back -- >> for three years. >> -- even though he knows that he could be killed. do you know what it reminds me of? his attacks on john mccain. where you had john mccain who couldn't lift his arms over his head because he stayed in vietnam as a prisoner of war when he could have been released because of who his father was. he refused.

he said, no. i'm going to stay here until my band of brothers can come home with me, and because of that, he spent the rest of his life not being able to raise his arms, and donald trump mocks him, ridicules him, mocks people that serve in the military, mocks people and asks the question. why in the world would they ever, ever give their lives for their country? what's in it for them? >> the behavior is sick and grotesque, but don't let it distract you from his connection to russia. trump's direct connection to russia. at some point, you have to see what's happening and look at this behavior and instead of reacting and getting triggered, you've got to connect the dots. >> but what they're doing is, gene robinson, what they're doing is not being offended by donald trump kowtowing to putin. they have decided that in this

personality cult, they too will kowtow to vladimir putin, and in this case, little mike in the house is letting ukrainians die every day. >> yeah. >> letting putin advance closer and closer to taking over that sovereign nation that wants to be connected to the west and they're doing it so instead of criticizing donald trump for this bizarre pro-putin, pro-russia behavior, they have decided, we're going to adopt it ourselves and we're going to become the pro-putin republican party. >> absolutely. that's what they are, and it's shocking. this is a pretty desperate moment in the war in ukraine where ukrainians on the front lines literally are running out of ammunition. they're running out of weapons to fire back at the russians. they're getting outgunned in a

way that they weren't previously, and, you know, they've lost one really strategic town, and they will be fortunate if they can hold the line where they are now until more aid arrives, but what they need is the big chunk of military aid, the weapons that only the united states has and can supply, and the republican party because of donald trump, really, is refusing to budge on that. mike johnson, the speaker, although donald trump is the real speaker of the house now, but the nominal speaker of the house, mike johnson, has always voted against ukraine aid. he's got a thing about it, and he ought to be called out on that, and that's to explain why he hasn't supported aid to ukraine, but the rest of his caucus is absolutely going along

with him. it is a stunning reversal of everything that the republican party used to stand for. not that long ago, ten years ago -- >> yeah. >>. just unthinkable that the republican party would be doing this, but here, again, we are. coming up, we're taking a look at the lasting legacy of russian opposition leader, alexei navalny, and how his wife is now stepping up to finish her husband's work. that's next on "morning joe." husband's work that's next on "morning joe.

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in russia, the mother of the deceased opposition leader alexei navalny says she has now seen his body, but is still not allowed to claim it. speaking in a video statement yesterday, she said officials are pressuring her to agree to a secret burial. she accuses them of blackmail, and claims they have told her if she doesn't agree to the secret burial, they've threatened to do

something to her son's body. until yesterday, she has been turned away repeatedly from the morgue where his body was allegedly taken. she says officials allowed her to see her son's body without her lawyer present where they told her alexei died of natural causes. meanwhile, president biden met yesterday with navalny's widow and daughter posting these images along with a message saying, navalny's legacy of courage will live on in yulia and dasha, and the countless people across russia fighting for democracy and human rights. >> yulia navalnya is stepping up to finish her husband's work. this 47-year-old mother now a widow is now the face of the fight against fascism, and she

is already showing the resolve of an unbreakable leader. [ speaking in a global language ] upon word of her husband's mysterious death, yulia wanted to rush to her children, to cry with them, to console them. instead, she stepped up to the podium at the munich security conference, dug in, and demanded justice. [ speaking in a global language ] >> reporter: for years, alexei navalny used his charismatic connection with people to organize in a country that silenced the opposition. against a regime that sent many

of his supporters to prison. he used every platform possible on social media. his charm and dark humor drew in supporters all in the face of impossible circumstances. he was attacked, not once, but twice in 2017 when pro-kremlin associates stained his face green. navalny made it part of his message, never losing his humor. the second time, doctors believe a toxic chemical agent was mixed in costing him vision in his right eye. in 2020, he became violently ill during a domestic flight to moscow where russian officials wanted to keep him. [ speaking in a global language ] >> reporter: here you see yulia's strength on full display as documented on hbomax. her fierce, protective instincts

kicked in as she tore down russian officials using the power of her voice, to force the russians to relent. yulia coordinated the transport of her comatose husband to germany in time to miraculously survive, recover, and be tested. and that was yulia's next fight, her determination to find the truth. >> german officials today said toxicology tests found a nerve agent. >> reporter: navalny could have stayed out of russia, but instead chose to go back and fight the system from within. bonn his return in 2021, he was arrested at the airport, spending the next three years in prison, separated from his family. this is yulia and alexei's last moment together ever. yulia now steps into the global spotlight in a role she didn't want, but for which she received

brutal, immersive training. she will likely bring with her a different approach while using the very skills that pushed her husband forward. while alexei navalny seemed to relish goading putin -- >> putin's supposed to be snot stupid to use this. if you want to kill someone, just shoot him. jesus christ. >> reporter: now she stands fearlessly in the face of the the russian leader. the worry for yulia navalnya is now immediate and long-term. where to live, how to begin again, how to stay hopeful. i'll add another question to everything that's on her plate. should she do this alone? the answer to the question is no. i urge all people who believe in democracy, especially powerful

women in the know your value community, to step up and help this woman. how can you help? you can help by supporting aid for ukraine. you can help by supporting the anti-corruption foundation her and her husband started, and obviously you can help by voting in the next presidential election. connect the dots and see what's happening, and see russian aggression pervading our politics, and see how she is standing in the face of this, and why shouldn't everybody else participate in protecting democracy. coming up, we'll get a report from live south carolina. ali vitali joins us straight ahead when "morning joe" comes right back. ahead when "morning joe" comes right back ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life

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♪♪ let me bring in richard haass. he, of course, is the president emeritus of council of foreign relations. it's so staggering, richard, to my former party, ronald reagan's former party, we would be the first people standing up and speaking out, shouting because we believed then and i still believe now. i know you do as well that america is a city that shines brightly on the hill for all the world to see. it really is. when we are at our best, and that's what republicans used to believe. no more. they are about to elect a man in south carolina and throughout the nation to represent them in the primary, in the presidential

election, donald trump, who has nothing bad to say about vladimir putin, who time and time again, defends vladimir putin, calls his invasion brilliant, and won't even speak out on the murder of navalny. won't even speak out. for young people here, richard, explain how unimaginable it is that this republican party has become so twisted and so perverted in its foreign policy under donald trump. >> joe, mika used the word grotesque. you used the word unimaginable. unconscionable comes to mind, but this is a republican party that has turned its back on its own principles, on its own dna. they have moved about as far from the party of ronald reagan and either one of the george bushes as you can move. they've become isolationist.

they've become pro-authoritarian. they've become anti-democracy here at home. this is, you know, we are where we are, and the cost of this is extraordinary. we're days away from the second anniversary of russia's invasion -- second invasion of ukraine coming eight years after their invasion of 2014. ukraine has been holding its own for two years, and now you have got the republicans in the house of representatives, ukrainians are losing real estate and they're losing lives, and it's unthinkable to imagine what happens to these young men when they're taken prisoner by the russians, and none of this is baked into the cake. none of this needed to happen. this is simply because the united states has pulled the rug out from under ukraine, and the consequences of this are awful for ukraine, for all of europe, coupled with donald trump's comments about nato, and, you know, the old line, the entire

world is watching, well, guess what? the entire world is watching, and we now have a republican party that's playing with the basics of who we are here at home, and have been for 75 years. coming up, there's a serious problem across college campuses across the country, particularly at ivy leagues. the ceo of the anti-defamation league joins us ahead to weigh in on that. "morning joe" is back in a moment. in on that "morning joe" is back in a moment

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i think we have to change our perspective of work. a lot of times we talk and work, and you almost feel like the energy drain as you say the word. we have to look at it as a place where we can build community. we have to look at it as a place where we can drive connection that is not only meaningful for us as individuals, but will actually make the company better

too. >> that was the ceo of cisco who spoke at last year's 30/50 summit. during her 20 years at cisco, she has overseen its growth programs and global social impact, landing cisco at the top of fortune's 100 best companies to work for three straight years in a row. fran joins us now to talk about our partnership with know your value and forbes. also maggie mcgrath and huma abdein. good to have you all. fran, we welcome you back as our partner for the 2024 30/50 summit. as part of last year's iconic conversation with hillary clinton, billie jean king,

gloria steinem and olena zelenska. what do you see from last year to this year? >> when i look back on last year, i have to much energy and gratitude for the summit. we see women at all stages of their career. some people have two or three chapters, others have six, seven or eight. all are sharing their story in a very authentic way. i think something that you did last year is the focus on financial success and ambition. i will tell you as someone who has always been ambitious with my career i've known that women

are looked at differently when they talk about ambition. i think hearing so many women share their stories really allows people to understand there's a path. being able to talk about those conversations that are not at the table that need to be, i think, is incredibly important. i know we'll do a lot more of that this year. >> one of the most important elements and aspects and what makes this summit so unique is this concept of mentoring. one of the women who was at the summit last year shared with us she has never been able to form a trusted mentor relationship. we recently heard from her. she said actually she found a mentor at the summit last year, and she is so grateful for that. what advice do you give attendees this year who are looking to form relationships and maybe find a mentor? >> i'm so happy to hear that. there is a really beautiful part

of women supporting each other. as i look back on my career, there was a time early on when i was in a meeting and i saw a leader handle a really tough situation. i went to her afterwards and said, how did you do that? she was so kind and generous to share what she did and how she learned to do that. when you see someone do something, when you see a skill or capability that you want, ask the question. just don't hesitate. for women who are asked to be mentors, everyone is so crazy busy and i get that. but i think we as mentors also get as much as we give. so i think it's a way to prioritize and showcase how we take care of women in the workplace and beyond. >> i know you think a lot about the gender divide that exists within ai and cyber security.

it has never been more important to build inclusive workforces in these sectors, which is why we're going to have a panel on smashing the cyber ceiling, so to speak. what do you most hope our audience will take away from this conversation? >> when we see an area like security or ai take off or we see these broader market transitions, everyone should know that creates opportunity. the other thing i would say is that as an example today around the world there are 3.4 million security roles that are not filled. about half of those are at the technician level, meaning anyone can really with some basic training step into a new career. it's never too late. i think we all need to invest in building our skills. the world economic forum says every two years all of us have to do a little more investment

in our skills. cisco offers something called skills for all. it's free. it allows you to take security courses and get certification. the most important thing for companies is that it be hoovs us to have diversity and inclusion in everything from ai to security. it will make the product so much stronger and really set us up from a perspective for us all. >> we're going to speak to you more in our next hour on the issue of ai. thank you so much. i so look forward to seeing you, and i'm so excited about our partnership. maggie mcgrath, huma abdein, thank you both as well. for more details on the upcoming 30/50 summit visit forbes.com or knowyourvalue.com. use the code "morning joe" for a

special opportunity on tickets. it's going to be an amazing opportunity this year. >> there are so many incredible people that are coming this year, just like last year. one person on that list that i think it's incredible seeing suze orman there because she's your inspiration. i remember you talking about suze and how empowering and what she did for women. it's so exciting to see you not not only there, but across america talking. what's so exciting is when you get up there and you talk about women fighting for their value, fighting for their rights, of

course it's exciting looking at you. it's even more moving looking at the women and seeing how much you move them and seeing them interact with you and everybody else in this community. it really makes a big difference in their lives. >> this year we have an incredibly diverse line-up of women who have really moved the meter, whether in art or politics or on the global stage or at the local level or in business. we're really in preserve and protect mode right now as women around the world. we want to protect our rights. we want to preserve our gains. we want to push each other forward. what you get at this event is this sort of cross cultural, cross generational support session, mentoring session, exchanging of information.

everybody leaves with either financial backing or feeling stronger in what they're doing. it is a remarkable event. i'm really proud of the gains we've made. this year it's more important than ever given what is happening here and around the world. we are rolling into the fourth hour of "morning joe." the biden administration released the details of the new sanctions against russia. what do we know? >> this has been teased now for several days by the president. just moments ago the sanctions package has been revealed. it's the largest set of these punishments on russia since the initial days of its invasion. of course, the two-year anniversary of that war is tomorrow. the bulk of these sanctions had been in the works for some time to commemorate the anniversary,

but there were a few added in recent days specifically targeting those who may have been involved with alexei navalny's death at that penal colony in siberia. president biden met with navalny's widow and daughter yesterday in san francisco. the sanction will target providers helping russia's military effort and make it harder for the kremlin to evade sanctions and find these goods. there will be price cap sanctions that also should cut some funding to putin's war machine. now these sanctions have not devastated russia's economy. he has been able to persevere and keep his military going. aides tell me this is just yet another step. it's not going to stop. so the white house's main focus remains getting that

supplemental aid to ukraine. >> joining us, former ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. i guessreaction to what we're hearing from the white house? >> i haven't seen the details yet. i've seen the breaking news reports on it. of course i applaud any new sanctions. what's interesting to me in particular is it sounds like there will be secondary sanctions against companies that are serving to provide aid to the russian military complex. this problem has been growing over the last year. the last time i talked to president zelenskyy about sanctions, he devoted most of our conversation to this fact.

why is it that we allow our technology, including american technology, to go to second countries like kazakhstan, china and hong kong that goes to build missiles that then kills ukrainians? i think that's a welcome step. at the same time we should applaud the biden administration today and ask them what they're going to do on monday to increase sanctions. sanctions should ratchet up every single day. i think about it like parking tickets. here at stanford if you're parked in the wrong place, you get a parking ticket the first day, and if you leave your car there, you get another parking ticket. putin's army is illegally parked in ukraine. >> i know you are close with the navalny family. i would like for you to talk

about yulia navalnaya and how people can help her. >> i picked her up a couple of days ago with dasha, her daughter. she got to see the president, as you just reported. that was an important meeting for them, because they want the united states to do more. i'll let her reveal the details of that conversation. their organization, you can donate to them directly. you don't have to wait for the united states government or the european union to do things. they have their own anti-corruption foundation. that's a way to concretely help them. they need that help now. they're worried about what happens to that organization given putin's murder of her husband and dasha's father. more broadly, this is a fight,

as yulia said, for the rest of her life she is going to fight putin until he faces the consequences of killing her husband, and she's going to fight for the rest of her life until there's a free russia. that demands a strategic plan for how to do that. the first thing available is for the u.s. congress when they get back from their vacation is to pass the aid bill to arm the ukrainian warriors fighting putin's invaders. it's just that concrete. it's just that clear cut. every day they don't, they're providing a gift to putin. so we should put pressure on them. why is it at this moment you are defending putin when she killing people in ukraine every day and, of course, just killed alexei navalny last week? >> tomorrow is, of course, the

two-year anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine. i want to get your big picture thoughts and reflect upon what has been a remarkable resistance by ukraine to this point. but were it to falter because the u.s. does not do its part to help them, what would the consequences be if putin were to win? >> well, the first year was an incredibly successful year for the ukrainian armed forces on the battlefield. they liberated 50% of their territory. year two has been a lot tougher, in part, because we didn't give them the weapons they needed to go on the counteroffensive. when you talk to ukrainians, including soldiers, they want to bring the war to russia. they want to bring it to the russian federation and especially they want to bring the war to crimea. right now they don't have the means to do that.

right now they're worried without that package that the tide of history will turn for vladimir putin. if they don't get this aid, they will lose the territory they liberated in 2022. over the long-term, when you talk to ukrainians and lithuanians and poles, they think that this is just the beginning of putin's long-term strategy to reconstruct that the the soviet union, it's the russian empire. the baltic states and poland were part of the russian empire. don't believe me. listen to putin. that was a pretty horrendous interview he did with tucker carlson, but listen to the first part of it and hear what he wants to do. leaders there worry about year

three, year four, year five. their plea is wake up, wake your country up to this growing threat. do not repeat what you did in the 1930s with hitler. stop putin now in ukraine so your soldiers don't have to be fighting him in countries like lithuania and poland two to three years from now. >> thank you. >> that's, of course, ambassador mcfaul saying that. what the ambassador said is exactly what dan henninger said in the "wall street journal" yesterday, an extremely conservative guy who has openly been deeply, deeply critical of biden and other democratic administrations. yesterday he said trump needs to explain why this is looking like

the 1930s, why he's looking like neville chamberlain, why this isn't 1938. most of us including a lot of old reagan republicans, a lot of conservatives, a lot of cold warriors on both sides of the aisle, this is looking like total capitulation to vladimir putin's form of fascism. so we do need the speaker. i really hope the speaker will -- >> we need him to work for the united states of america and not for russia. >> well, we need the speaker of the house, speaker johnson to work for united states of america. what's in our best interest, because if ukraine falls, taiwan's next, poland's next, lithuania's next. you can go down the line.

we have learned from hitler. we have learned from putin that when there's an invasion and we don't respond, georgia in 2008, ukraine and crimea in 2014, we didn't respond. that led to the invasion two years ago tomorrow. donald trump says he's going to get us out of that war in a day, which means he's going to capitulate to vladimir putin's form of fascism. so we've got to respond. it's not just ambassador mcfaul who's saying it, it's a lot of senators, republican and democratic alike. it's a lot of republican house members. chairman mccaul, there's a lot of people that need to step up, and we really do hope for the sake of america that speaker johnson will focus more on what's in the best interest of the united states of america and the west than what's in the best

interest of vladimir putin and donald trump. >> former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul, thank you very much. >> and please go ahead and tweet where we can help the navalnys. we'll get the word out. >> thank you very much. tomorrow here in america is the south carolina republican primary. joining us from monks corner, south carolina, about an hour outside of charleston is ali vitali. set the scene for us there. >> reporter: i was listening to your conversation with the ambassador. i watched the scene setter that john heilemann did earlier in the show. he nailed the dynamics of this race, which is to say it's ironic, i think is the right

word, that tomorrow on a day when donald trump is expected to once again win a republican primary, making him one step closer and one state closer to notching the republican nomination again, that it comes against the cross current of the two-year anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine and all of the comments trump has made in support of putin and not condemning putin's actions in regards to alexei navalny, i think all of that was so striking to me as i was watching the segment just now. look, here on the ground it does look like it's almost a sure thing that trump is going to win this primary, and not just win it, but do so by a long shot. in my conversations with nikki haley supporters, many of them are grappling with that reality even as they hope that a state like this one that nikki haley's

own voters will do. >> i want to do everything i can to support nikki. even if she doesn't have a chance, i just want to make sure she knows people here support her. >> at the end of the day, is south carolina trump country? >> it sure sounds like it, but i'm not living in that country. >> you're hopeful? >> i'm very hopeful. i'm hopeful there is something else. the world does not want another race between trump and biden po that out. 70% of americans don't want to see trump versus biden, but that very much looks like where we're headed even as nikki haley keeps herself in this race just to give people an alternative. i do think it's important to point out that even if she doesn't do well here in south carolina and they've been vague on what success looks like on

the ground here in the palmetto state. no one in the campaign has said she's going to win here. instead, she wants to show she can do better here than new hampshire and iowa. regardless of that, she's barreling ahead into the super tuesday states, going to michigan right after south carolina, then colorado, utah, north carolina, virginia. i think i have her travel schedule right there. i do think it's going to be interesting to see the way she frames south carolina tomorrow night, most likely losing this race to donald trump, but seeing if she ramps up her criticism of him in any way. >> joining us now, nbc political analyst and editor at large at

"newsweek" tom rogers. you have a new piece for the inc. entitled "donald trump, victim king." you write, there are all kinds of people in this world, but none rarer than one who identifies with both vladimir putin and alexei navalny. yet that was donald trump this week. trump has long identified with putin, of course, calling him a genius and opining against all domestic evidence that the smartest one gets to the top. more importantly, trump has done everything in his power to make the world safer for putin, to make the world his oyster. but when navalny, putin's nemesis as leader of the russian pro democracy opposition, died in prison this week, trump found himself stirred by the story of a great martyr, because navalny reminded him of him.

trump's simultaneous identification with putin and the leader he killed is strange, because it is important to trump's project that he both invulnerable strong man and persecuted martyr. he is a master at performing the victim king. i think about the judge in the civil suit who said something that donald trump pathologically is not capable of not being a fraud. similar here, this behavior is grotesque. it's also pathological. he is so intent on creating pain and creating trouble that he can't help himself. i think your thesis is really a great description of how donald trump moves himself forward.

>> donald trump is a very weak man, a man of great woundedness and weakness inside. he's a weak man who wants to be a strong man. his ticket that he's figured out so darkly brilliantly is to perform the victim for his supporters. i think this is a misunderstood element. he simultaneously says he wants to be the dictator on day one, but he's constantly showing this existential vulnerability to his supporters, which makes them want to save him instead of what's normally supposed to happen in a democracy, which is the leader worrying about you. he's trying to turn that around and make his followers expect nothing from him but to actually save him, even sack the capitol for him. that's half of the victim king equation. this guy plays the victim to try to be king. he is really building this

movement by being the wannabe king of america's imagined victim. he's building a movement of these who have this victimization complex. it's really a remarkable thing to see so many americans who are living in a country that has done more for them than most places in the world would do for them, play this fantasy that they are victims and only he can save them. >> it's crazy. i always talk about the millionaire driving the maserati up to his country club calling biden a communist and talking about how america is a socialist paradise now as he looks at his phone and sees his stocks just continuing to explode upward and he makes millions and millions of dollars. it's the same with so many other

people. especially what's so hilarious is there's so many people that will attack those on the left. they're snowflakes, they're to easily triggered. no. they are the victims. they're victimized about everything. i've never seen so many billionaires who are victimized, who howl and whine and moan about america is not the america it was. donald trump attacking america viciously yesterday and the day before. he's always attacking america. they're always trashing america, the strongest economy in the world, the strongest military in the world, stronger culturally than anybody else by far, always the victim. you talk to represents and say, how can you still be with donald trump? they will say it's the democrats' fault because they victimize donald trump. they they prosecutors made

donald trump steal nuclear secrets and then they made donald trump tell his i.t. person to destroy the evidence, then they made donald trump go to other employees saying can you flood the i.t. room, made donald trump do all of these different things, made donald trump inspire and start a riot and for three hours stare at the pictures of the violence and rewind back the most violent parts while everybody's begging him to stop. donald trump did it himself. he is no victim. he is victimizing everybody else. >> yeah. donald trump's sense of his own victimhood, a perfect example this week, he compared himself to alexei navalny. navalny, of course, a russian opposition leader, died in a siberian prison.

donald trump is accused of committing crimes and was charged for them. i'm curious if you could expand a little more on the victimhood, the core that trump strikes with people, this grievance. how much of it has to do with race and class and people saying, hey, i no longer have what's coming to me, i'm the victim here. >> i think we have lived in an age of extraordinary change, progress and change. we have moved closer in our lifetimes to a bigger we in we the people. the last 50 or 60 years, it's been extraordinary progress on empowering women and people of color to play roles and thrive as they were not in prior eras of american history. and for a lot of folks, white people, men, that's fine.

a lot of people are happy to share their country. but donald trump has appealed to a group of people who would rather break their country than share it, who would rather no one play with the toys than share the toys. it's very effective. the reason i wanted to write this is, if we have to understand the depth of anxiety and fear and people not having a sense of who they're going to be in the future we're trying to build, and i think it's very important for pro-democratic leaders, the president on down to find their own ways of speaking to these anxieties and finding ways to defang these anxi anxieties, because you don't want the situation where only the strong man, only the wannabe strong man is speaking to those anxieties. it's very important for the pro democracy side to speak to those

anxieties, allay them and give a vision of where we go when there's a bigger we. >> you're looking at donald trump's enablers in congress amid the threat to democracy. you write, president biden has pointed to this election being about preserving our democracy and that being the issue above all others. he is absolutely correct. however, this issue goes well beyond trump and his anti-democratic proclivities. trump alone cannot overturn an election or subvert the will of the voters. he needs a full cast of enablers to achieve that. what makes the potential overturning of the upcoming 2024 election even more dangerous than 2020 is that the republican speaker of the house mike johnson is not only an election denier, but a ring leader of that effort. while it is unclear which party will control the house when the new congress is sworn in, it has

controlled the house between election day 2024 and that date that provides those intent on ensuring a trump victory regardless of the results of the vote the opportunity to do so. it does feel like not democrats against republicans. it feels like democrats against russian-influenced trump republicans. >> absolutely. we have a situation here where republican election deniers have learned a lot from last time. i think we've got to focus more now on what they could do going forward as much as what they did last time. obviously the victimhood king fantasy is that the election was stolen, and that has become a core tenet of the republican

party now. if you think about what they could do going forward, where the guardrails last time were the federal and state courts. what could they do where those guardrails don't apply? that's where it gets really scary. even though the democrats are favored to take the house of representatives, it is the current republican congress that would certify election races for the house. if we have a number of close house races, as we may well, even though it may be clear that the democrats won those house races, if the current congress decides that they're not going to certify those and, therefore, come january 3rd when the congress is sworn in that they are going to avoid what would have been a democratic majority and sustain the current republican majority with johnson as speaker, all of a sudden you have a situation where the

presidential race, where the electoral college slate gets opened in front of congress on january 6th. it can be a very different outcome. that outcome can be one that instead of being dictated by the big reform that came about over the last couple years, so-called election reform act which everybody thought could safeguard our ability to make sure it wasn't easy for congress to overturn a clear electoral college victory, what has slipped through the cracks here is that the enabling legislation that the house must approve for that set of rules on the electoral college reform act to apply could not be adopted by a republican congress that has essentially gone rogue and perpetuated its own control. the combination of those two things are political actions,

and political actions are not reviewable by the courts. therefore, you could have a situation here where avoiding the courts is done and an election could be stolen. we have to focus on what they could do going forward. >> we have with the current speaker of the house -- let me say really quickly i call him little mike before. i mocked him. i apologize for that. i actually do. i really strongly disagree with him, i believe, improperly using the bible for political reasons when he's the author in the house of the big lie. liz cheney said that. i'm deeply disturbed that he listens to donald trump instead of americans and our allies on russia.

i will say liz cheney said that speaker johnson was, in fact, the guy that was the chief election denier in the house, went around trying to get ken paxton's crazed, maniacal -- trying to get support for his lawsuit. and liz said to speaker johnson, who wasn't speaker at the time, you know that's not true, you know that's not true, you know that's a big lie. and he said he had to do it to get in donald trump's orbit. that's what we have right now. we have a guy who's the chief architect of the big lie in the house of representatives who now may be sitting in the speaker's chair on january 6th, 2025. >> yep. the house is sovereign over its

own rules. what it does in its political capacity like that is not reviewable by the courts. it is totally illegitimate, it is totally against the constitution. but we know with the perpetuation of this lie for four years and people like stefanik saying she would not vote to certify the 2024 election. you have people saying the house controls the presidential election. and having the ultimate election denier as speaker and the ability for the house to go rogue and effectively avoid the courts and perpetuate not only republican control of the house but non-certification of electoral college slates so it's thrown to the house of representatives where trump would win. you end up in a situation where

democracy obviously could be overturned. we have to be on guard that their playbook is going to change from last time, and this is the kind of thing they would be thinking about. >> it would be the new congress certifying this. so if the democrats take control of congress, the democrats on january 6th, 2025, would be the ones certifying the election results, correct? >> well, they would be if they took control of the house. my column is based on some deep dives by republicans. >> i want to make sure, though, the 2024 election will be certified by the new house

elected this coming fall. >> yes. but the question is, will the new house be certified and seated. obviously you have constitutional chaos if they try this, but there are close races that if the democrats won, the current republican-controlled house generally determines the certification of house seats for the next congress. so come january 3rd they can do business. if they take the position they are not going to certify certain races that were close that the democrats won because they say they didn't win them, then you could have a situation where they go rogue and perpetuate their own control. >> got you. you're saying they could be election deniers on the presidential race as well as house races. >> i wouldn't put it past them. >> thank you both very much for being on this morning.

coming up on "morning joe," the fcc has opened an investigation into yesterday's massive cell phone outage for at&t customers. we'll tell you what the telecom giant says led to the issue. an american made spacecraft is back on the moon for the first time since the apollo era. we'll talk with andrew ross sorkin. the th

only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means your priorities are ours too. our retirement tools and advice can help you leave a legacy for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. the economy is simply not working for can h millions of hardegacy fo working families.e. they're working harder than ever and they still can't make enough to get by to afford food and medicine to even keep a roof over their heads. we need to build more housing that's truly affordable. we need to address this terrible epidemic of homelessness. we need to invest in good paying jobs, union jobs and investments in our future. this, this is why i'm running for the us senate. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message.

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39 past the hour. cell service has been restored to thousands of at&t customers after a widespread outage yesterday. reports of downed service began around 4 a.m. eastern time and persisted for the next 12 hours. the fcc has opened an investigation into the matter. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. andrew, where do we begin with the reverberations and the impact of this meltdown yesterday? >> i think the real reverberation is a long-term question about whether the telephone companies in this country are going to ultimately need to be regulated in a way they aren't today. there was a brief period where the fbi and homeland security were looking at this as a cyber attack. it doesn't appear that's the case. even though the three networks

at&t, verizon and t-mobile are regulated by the fcc in the united states, it's not like a home inspector going into a home to check the plumbing when it's being installed. we don't have a system where people are checking to make sure there's a backup system and a backup system before that. we have economic incentives ostensibly to prevent these types of things. of course at&t or verizon or t-mobile don't want these things to happen. having said that, these are ultimately utilities in the u.s. the economic impact on them is quite small on a relative basis. if you have a major nationwide outage, think about all the businesses and potentially national security issues that could rise up. you're starting to hear murmurs in washington about that. there's already pushback by the telecom companies. there was a period after hurricane katrina where there was an effort to force all the

wireless companies to have battery backups so they would be in place for at least eight hours or more. those telephone companies did a great job lobbying to push back on that. as of now, the good news, it's not a cyber attack. the bad news, it happened, and we have to figure out what we need to do about that. >> it had been 50 years since the u.s. landed an object on the moon or burbank sound stage. that changed yesterday. a private company intuitive machines got there. tell us what's going on. >> so intuitive machines is a company that's put people back on the moon. it's also a very interesting question about public-private partnerships, the privatization of space. the u.s. government and nasa did pay for a large part of what

you're seeing happening. at the same time, there's a number of commercial entities that have payloads on this craft. columbia sportswear have this omni heat infinity like installation thing in their coats. that's up there. they're trying to test that. i'm sure they'll use that in marketing here in the u.s. jeff koonce, the famous artist has his art aboard that capsule as well. they have sold a lot of that art. there's a piece of it on the ground and a piece of it in space. some of this started during the trump administration in terms of how this landed on the moon to begin with. former president trump talked about trying to create a lunar economy, and this is the beginning of that effort.

>> you wrote about this sort of ai tipping point in the market. tell us about it. >> one of the things we saw yesterday is nvidia, the chip company behind ai. there's a question mark right now about whether we are at a tipping point in our economy for huge productivity gains, kind of like what we saw with computers back in 1984 and what kind of productive gains we got in the economy as a result. clearly there is huge amounts of money moving into ai on the bet that this is one of those moments. of course, when people talk about productivity, how do you get more productivity? you actually get less cost. there is a question mark about what this says to employment. that debate isn't going away any

time soon. >> i've been seeing stories come up. i've seen people in charge of content of certain ai apps. >> what's happening at google for example. >> talking about the political correctness where it's just insane. like, for instance, if you type into chat ai, did hamas rape israeli women on october 7th, it'll say, oh, i'm sorry, we can't provide realtime updates. others will say there's no evidence of that. if you ask other historical questions like did police kill george floyd, it will say yes and give you the details. i know there was sort of an apology from one industry leader. >> from google. >> yeah. the political correctness in ai is insane.

>> i think what happened, you know, there was a period of time two or three years ago where there was real questions about some of the image generation things going on that people thought were biased against minorities. this was a google system. i think they overdid it. for example right now if you put into the google gemini system there were images of historical wars or the founding of the country, they were adding in images of minorities in some of these roles that didn't make sense. i think that was an overcorrection from issues they had on the other side. there's other issues chatgpt doesn't want to touch or address because they're scared of criticism over these things.

that's what's going to make ai so difficult. in the search world, you can get these search results back, and it's sort of a choose your own adventure system. with ai, the idea is they're providing you with the answer, the singular answer. in a world where everybody's trying to find their own truth, the singular answer might not be their answer. that creates a real conundrum for the technology companies. >> when there's a question, did israeli women get raped by hamas on october 7th, there is a singular answer. >> 100%. >> i can't believe these ai companies that are supposed to be so forward leaning can't even report on the news if they think it's going to offend the raping of jewish women. that's offensive to people that are on these ai apps?

it's insane. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. on the topic of ai, let's bring back the president of cisco. i know one of the top missions of cisco is to sort of bridge the gap, bridge the digital divide. i'm curious how you are taking on the challenges of ai while embracing the technology. >> it is a balance. that last conversation is a reminder that in everything we do, we have to have a very inclusive approach. the more companies have people of all demographics participating, there is huge opportunity. i think the opportunity will allow us to bring more into the

fold from an opportunity perspective. we did an ai readiness assessment back in november. we talked to 8,000 i.t. professionals around the world. what they told us was that about 97% felt an urgency to move into ai, but only 14% felt they were ready. i bring that up because i think it's going to create an opportunity, but we have to make sure as we're bringing in the additional workforce with ai skills, we have to be thinking is everyone here at the table. i think there's from a regulation perspective, there is a new ai safety consortium that biden started that is going to focus on inclusion and cyber security. >> thank you very much for sticking around for us. this issue is going to be so

fascinaing as the challenges that ia presents move forward, but such opportunity as well. >> challenges, opportunities, so much promise. you look at the promise of how right now ai is being used to make more effective vaccines. ai is being used to get a shortcut to the cure of cancer and other disease. there are so many remarkable things that can be done. like every institution, humans run it. they have to do a better job. still ahead, a man sentences to prison for taking part in the january 6th insurrection says he and other better job. >> still ahead, a man sentenced to prison for taking part in the january 6th insurrection said he and other rioters shouldn't be the only people held accountable for that day. we'll explain that next on "morning joe." back in two minutes.

52 past the hour. a minnesota man was sentenced to nearly three years in prison yesterday for his role in the january 6th attack on the capitol, and now he's calling for accountability for politicians who spread 2020 election lies. last year brian mock was convicted of four assaults on law enforcement. during sentencing, mock said he would not have been at the capitol on january 6th if he had not heard repeated election lies and only participated because it led him to believe there was evidence of fraud. in an interview following the hearing, mock told nbc news, quote, whatever made them make those statements, i would hope it wasn't just to get their guy in the white house because this has ruined a lot of lives. >> and a lot of middle class americans sitting in jail, working class americans who assaulted cops should be in jail

for beating the hell of cops, for storming the capitol, for taking part in riots, but you know, they've got to be sitting there thinking or should be sitting there thinking wait a minute, why isn't the guy whoo started the riots, who told us to come up here, that things were going to be wild, that continued to encourage the riots, that encouraged the hanging of mike pence, told his staff that mike pence deserved it, sat there for three hours watching the riots while his family and everybody else begged him to stop the riots, why is that billionaire still not been held accountable and we've all been held accountable? it's a two-tiered justice system and forif donald trump had been in that crowd that he inspired, if he weren't a billionaire, he would be in jail right now along

with so many people there. but he's not because there's a two-tiered justice system in america, and his supporters can whine about him being a victim all they want, but he should have been arrested on january the 7th for this. >> and he started that. >> he did. and kept it going. >> meanwhile, the interim president of harvard university is condemning what he calls, quote a flagrantly anti-semitic cartoon which was shared on social media by two pro-palestine student groups and even a faculty group last week. we're not going to show it here, but the drawing depicts a black man and an arab man with nooses around their necks, which are being held by a hand imprinted the star of david on it with a dollar sign in the middle. the drawing prompted backlash from many anti-hate groups and even some members of congress. >> let's bring in right now the ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt. the 2020 report of murder is and extremism in the united states.

john, i want to focus on colleges right now. we can blame it on tiktok, we can blame it on extreme left wing presidents, whatever it is, the hatred for jews on american college campus, especially elite college campuses has skyrocketed and incidences of anti-semitism has shot up 900% in the last year. there is so much hate for jews on college campus. i hear about it every day. jonathan, when are administrators going to take charge? >> yeah, it's really pretty stunning, joe. here today after having spent last night at brown university in providence, rhode island, brown is an ivy league school, one of the most prestigious universities in the united states, and i was invited to give a talk to bring the whole community together, and i started my talk, and about

halfway through literally, joe, mika, half the audience without provocation, i didn't say anything sort of hostile, literally stood up and walked out. now, mind you, they had reserved those seats. they had taken those seats from other students who wanted to hear me. it's a kind of hecklers veto where they will try to stop my speech and prevent others from hearing. if they had stuck around, of course, they would have heard me say that we're opposed to anti-semitism, and anti-muslim hate. they would have heard me say we need a two-state solution. they would have heard me deplore the shooting of a palestinian american student in vermont last december, but here's the thing, and it's happened to me at vanderbilt. it's happened to me at texas christian. it's happened to me now at brown. the level of animus directed against jewish speak e, the level of hatred directed at

people who support the state of israel is through the roof. look at these numbers, imagine if we're another group of people, black students or lgbtq students who had been targeted and the increase had gone up 900%. i mean, this isn't normal, and as you're showing in this graphic, the 900% increase against jewish college students is against a broader backdrop where anti-semitism is not just rising, it's intensifying. to hear jewish students tell me that they are changing their names in their uber profiles because they are afraid of the drivers' understanding that they're jews or they're hiding their jewish stars around their neck. think about this, in an era where we celebrate diversity, jews are hiding in the closet. they're retreating into the shadows. that is unacceptable by any standard. it's not just anti-semitic.

it's anti-american to deny and to denigrate people based on their ethnicity or faith. >> so jonathan, the adl released its 2023 murder and extremism report earlier this ek woo. disturbing findings. walk us through some of them. >> the adl tracks extrem extremist-related murders. the overwhelming of the 23 murders that were committed were perpetrated by right wing extremists. it just reminds us whether it's right wing extremists or hardened antizionists from the left, extremism is a threat to all of us, whether it's harassment or violence, none of it should be acceptable. i don't think it's a jewish issue. you just showed the pictures on january 6th. extremists, wherever they come from, are a threat to democracy. they're a threat to pluralism,

and they're a threat to all of us. >> and that is how we end the week here on "morning joe." ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt, thank you very, very much for being on. >> final thoughts this morning. this has been an, i don't know, incredibly emotional show on a number of levels. just so many issues that are so painful coming to an inflection point. >> we have so many things, the most important thing is that people, you know, stay engaged. people stay optimistic. people continue to believe that right will win out. not only on this issue, but also in elections this year. that requires everybody getting involved, stepping forward and doing whatever they can to protect, whether it's protecting jews or arabs