right now on "andrea mitchell reports," the biden administration rolls out a massive new sanctions package against russia and its enablers in response to alexei navalny death a day after the president met with the late russian opposition leader's wife and daughter. >> i assured them his legacy will continue to live around the world. we in the united states are going to continue to ensure that putin pays a price for his aggression abroad and repression at home. >> sanctions have not deterred vladimir putin during his two-year invasion of ukraine. what impact these new sanctions could have coming up.

we are less than 24 hours away from polls opening in south carolina for the most important primary of this election year so far, with nikki haley trying to close the gap with former president trump. >> i need you to get everybody you know to go vote on saturday. tell your friends. tell your family. email everybody. text them, all of that. this is the time south carolina can really step up and show the direction that we want our country to go in. we are following another major headline today after the alabama supreme court ruling that embryos are children, pausing ivf treatments in that state, sparking frustration and outrage among perspective parents and potentially setting off similar restrictions in other red states. ♪♪

good day to you. i'm peter alexander in for my friend andrea mitchell. president biden says more than 500 new sanctions the u.s. just imposed on russia are in his words a response to putin's brutal war of conquest. >> america stands up for freedom. we never bow to anyone, particularly putin. >> executed by both the treasury and state departments, this is the largest single batch of sanctions since the start of vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine two years ago. tomorrow marking that two-year anniversary. on the list are individuals directly tied to the imprisonment of russian opposition leader alexei navalny, as we first reported here on nbc news. he died last week in a siberian penal colony. according to navalny's death certificate, he died of natural causes. navalny's mother, who was allowed to view his body, insists what her daughter-in-law

and what the president and his ai aides said is true, that he was murdered by the kremlin. president biden met with navalny's widow and daughter in california yesterday. yulia navalnaya isvowing on her husband's work. russian media says she risks arrest if she returns. we will start with kelly o'donnell and alexander vinman. he was a key witness in the former president's first impeachment trial. kelly, let me get to you. we heard from the president. the sanctions, as he shared with us, they are timed to hit as the war in ukraine is beginning its third year tomorrow. they were rejiggered to address alexei navalny's death as well. who or perhaps what specifically is president biden targeting here? >> reporter: what really stands out is what you mentioned, this

is the largest group of sanctions since the start of the war. in addition to treasury and state, the department of commerce has another 100 or so restrictions. this has the intent to raise the cost of the conduct of vladimir putin. raising the cost may not be enough to deter, as we have looked back on the last two years. but the president very much wants it to be known that navalny's death is something for which the putin regime must be held accountable. and this is one way to do that, by targeting some of the people related to his imprisonment and some of the business entities that are tied to putin and to use those sorts of levers to try to draw attention to this and to inflict some economic harm. the president also a short time ago urged the governors who are here for the national governors association to talk to their members of congress to urge them to get a spine, as he said it,

about the national security supplemental to provide aid to ukraine in the package that also includes border and so forth. the president today is announcing these sanctions as a way to shine a light on the urgent need for congress to act. >> good wrap-up there. i want to get specific about this though, ambassador mcfaul. the white house is imposing sanctions on iran amid concerns, some reports that they have provided ballistic missiles to russia. you got north korea and china propping up putin's economy by finding ways to buy russian oil. how effective are the sanctions? while they have had an impact initially, over time they did become diluted in some form. >> i would say a couple of things. first of all, i applaud they have done these today. this is serious stuff. i applaud they are now sanctioning third parties in

other countries. about a dozen of them in this package. that's what's needed to stop the flow of technology into russia that goes directly into the military industrial complex to build the missiles that kill ukrainians. that's a good sign. number two, i hope they will announce another package next friday. why does it take an event like the assassination of mr. navalny to do these sanctions? these could have been done two years ago. i think we need to change our mentality about sanctions. every day that putin's army is parked illegally in ukraine, there should be new sanctions. it's like parking tickets here at stanford. you get your first ticket the day you are parked illegally. you get another ticket the next day. i think that needs to be the thinking moving forward. then third, the most important sanctions against russia are military assistance to ukraine, just like the president said. if you want to respond to putin

when they get off their vacation, members of congress, speaker johnson just needs to bring this bill to the floor, because every day he delays -- we are talking about months that he has delayed. that is a gift to putin. if you are going to give a gift to putin, you need to explain that to the american people why you are doing that. >> ambassador, to your metaphor about the parking tickets at stanford, you get enough and then you get the boot. in this case, the boot is trying to kick russia out of ukraine. there is no replacement for that $60 billion in aid the president has been demanding that remain held up by house republicans, in many cases supporting the will of the former president donald trump here. alexander, i want to ask you about this. navalny's mother says she's being blackmailed by russia. she says that they won't release the body of her son for burial until she agrees to what would have to be a secret burial. some people may remember there was a massive funeral march.

this was 1989. this is almost four decades ago. for a separate soviet dissident. is the kremlin basically trying to avoid a similar scene for alexei navalny where vladimir putin's opposition shows up? >> i think that's true. i think they are trying to avoid a mass crowd event. i think i would like to get back to why alexei navalny was potentially murdered, the timing behind that. i think in a lot of ways, it's because we have not learned enough. we are facing the second year anniversary. we have not done enough to help ukraine, to help avoid u.s. involvement, u.s. troops eventually facing another war in europe. the reason is that we are in a lot of ways seeing the same conditions we saw right before russia launched the invasion in 2022. a republican party captured by donald trump that was apologetic for russia, that was taking inaction, obstructing any helpful activities like passing

ukraine aid. we see that kind of playing out in real time. i think navalny might be an instance of this. that is a recipe for disaster. that could be a spillover in which ukraine and moldova take action against the russian forces. romania could be pulled in. we are not doing enough. this is a moment where your viewers have an opportunity to do something. they need to pick up the phone and they need to call their congressman. this window, this next week, this next two weeks, we could actually influence changes. there are fence sitters that will get off the fence if enough people call. if every person called and made their voice heard, said this was important, they don't want u.s. troops involved in a war in europe. we could actually move this issue and pass a ukraine supplemental to keep our troops out. >> as kelly told us, this is the message the president was delivering to the governors to

communicate as well. alexander, you were instrumental in former president trump's first impeachment. the former president, as many people are aware of, promised retribution against those he and his supporters deem as disloyal. how are you and your family, your wife specifically, preparing if former president trump is re-elected? >> i apologize. i was smiling because my wife and i are of different minds. she's concerned. there was a story that nbc put out about her worried about whether we should do a 50th birthday bash. >> she wanted to save it for legal bills or to leave the country. >> she's thinking in that direction. i april not intimidated by donald trump. i will stay and fight. the bottom line is that we need to do what we can to defeat him, prevent a second term in office. pick up the phone. save it into your contact. keep calling your congress

people. tell them this issue is important. down the want u.s. troops on the ground. you don't want blood spilled. we don't want our sons and daughters fighting there. congress has to pass this ukraine supplemental. the time is now. >> don't just watch, engage. it's a powerful message. coming up, win for losing. nikki haley faces long odds in her home state tomorrow. can she gain some momentum in her challenge to donald trump beyond south carolina? that is next here when "andrea mitchell reports" is back just 60 seconds from now only on msnbc. than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa! a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new!

yup, that's how you business differently. it's odd how in an instant things can transform. slipping out of balance into freefall. i'm glad i found stability amidst it all. gold. standing the test of time. we are back now on "andrea mitchell reports." in south carolina, they hold their republican presidential primary tomorrow. nikki haley insists she's staying in the republican race even if she loses her home state. the former south carolina

governor has been relentless recently in her attacks on donald trump. the former president is returning the favor. >> all he is doing is talking about himself, and that's the problem. it's not about him. it's about the american people. >> nikki haley is losing to me. looks like she's going to lose by 25 or 30 points. that's a lot. she's governor, but people don't like her too much. she's hurting the party. i don't care. let her run. >> joining me now from the campaign trail in south carolina, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. ali vitali is in south carolina as well. the former president, he always tries to cast his confidence about south carolina. in this case, the polls support that. in spite of a legal setback in new york city yesterday. >> reporter: right. for donald trump, this has been a state that he has been eager to have this contest in.

back when not only nikki haley was in the race, but tim scott, too, to prove his prowess in the republican party today. tomorrow is that day. you heard him last night in nashville, tennessee, where he talked about beating nikki haley. he predicts by 25, 30 percentage points. he said that he wants her to stay in, because it makes it fun for him. for donald trump, you know, i made a stop with him 13 months ago here when he was joined by governor mcmaster and senator lindsey graham at the statehouse in columbia. at that point, i was talking to republican voters that came out to see donald trump. they told me they did not want tim scott or nikki haley to announce candidacies against him. they felt that donald trump had been the most successful president in their lifetime, even more so than ronald reagan. why not give him another shot? nikki haley and tim scott, they jumped into the race anyway. tomorrow is going to be a staple, an opportunity for donald trump to make it loud and

clear that he is going to be the presumptive nominee. listen to donald trump last night. we are almost to his rally this afternoon. we just got back from nashville last night where he was speaking to the national religious broadcasters convention. take a listen to part of his remarks. >> the left is trying to shame christians. they try and shame us. i'm a very proud christian, actually. i've been very busy taking the arrows. i'm taking them for you. i'm honored to take them. you have no idea. i'm being indicted for you, as i say. i'm being indicted over and over and over. >> reporter: there's that one point this winter that donald trump took it a little easier, peter, on nikki haley. almost giving her an off ramp to end her candidacy. that's not the case now. take a look in the last 15 minutes on social media, him posting simply a photo of nikki haley back from 2012 standing alongside now senator, then

presidential candidate, mitt romney. >> a person who he interviewed as a possible secretary of state in his first administration. the former president has yet to condemn vladimir putin for the death of alexei navalny. ali, nikki haley is playing cleanup after a news making interview you had with her about the embryo decision in alabama. how is she justifying staying in the race after a potential loss in her home state, a place she's won twice as governor? >> reporter: you are right, peter, that they are spending time trying to clarify haley's position on that embryo ruling in alabama. haley now saying that when she was talking to me, saying that embryos to her are babies, she was espousing her personal opinion. the policy position she holds would be more nuanced and sensitive. that being said, overall, i think the haley campaign is aware of the landscape that they are operating in right now. in the last few minutes, i got off a phone call with the

campaign manager. within that phone call, she said quite clearly, they know the stakes and they know the odds. that being said, they are still slugging this out. haley was very clear about that to start the week, that whether or not she wins, loses, does better or worse here in south carolina, she is still going to be in the race on sunday, immediately barrelling towards michigan, which has its contest on tuesday, and then crossing the state before the super tuesday voting deadline that you just showed on the screen. i think there was one other striking thing in my conversation, which is the fact that i asked what haley meant when she said to me earlier this week that they haven't thought past super tuesday. i asked what the metric was for hem to continue staying in or getting out. she dodged that question. just simply saying she has endorsers and surrogates on the ground in states all the way through the end of march. >> i was struck by a conversation that one of those nikki haley supporters said, just reading it before i came into the studio, this person said in case the court

proceedings go the wrong way for donald trump, we need a plan b. it's not clear republicans have that if nikki haley doesn't hold on. travel safe as always. backlash, the fallout from alabama's supreme court ruling that puts ivf procedures in limbo. this is "andrea mitchell reports." you are watching msnbc. bc lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. it's not for everyone and may not protect all who receive it. don't get abrysvo if you've had an allergic... ...reaction to its ingredients. a weakened immune system may decrease your response. most common side effects are tiredness, headache, injection-site pain and muscle pain. ask about pfizer's abrysvo®. because every breath matters.

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we are back now on "andrea mitchell reports." i'm peter alexander. we are following new fallout in alabama after that state's supreme court ruled that under state law, frozen embryos created through in vitro fertilization are legally children. three alabama clinics have paused services since the decision came down. people are left unsure whether moving forward with the process will leave them at a legal risk. some couples are seeking treatment in other states now. nationally, about 2% of births every year involve ivf treatment. joining me on set, nbc news senior legal correspondent, laura jarrett. with us, out of alabama, former u.s. attorney, the professor at the university of alabama's school of law, joyce vance. joyce, we will get to you in a second. laura, let me ask you about this. you have been talking to families. >> you see me working the phones. >> who are in these moments. a lot of families -- i'm sure

many people watching go through ivf. it's real and personal. for these families, they have no idea what happens now. >> they are in this legal purgatory, a no man's land. i have been following two patients in particular who when this first came down, the clinic said, we will see how it goes. the next thing you know, one had a transfer scheduled for today that was canceled. the other had to hop on a plane. let's hear from them. >> we found a clinic that will take us in texas. >> after three miscarriages, gaby says her doctors recommended she have her embryos genetically tested to boost her chances of a healthy pregnancy. >> i'm not stopping this cycle. i have been through too many shots, invested too much time and energy. >> after spending nearly $250,000 on fertility treatments and a surrogate, meagan and walker were devastated to learn their fertility clinic not only canceled their embryo implantation this week, but say

their clinic would not give them their frozen embryos to use outside the state. >> even though these are apparently my children, i don't have access to them. >> you might wonder, why can't she get her own embryos? basically, the response from the clinic is, we will shut down everything because they are worried about what happens if one gets accidentally dropped. what if one accidentally thaws and is destroyed? that's what could put them on the hook legally since the court is saying any destruction is a destruction of life. >> it's powerful the language that young woman uses. these are supposed to be my children, but i have no access to them. joyce, i want to get to you about i guess how this resolves itself, if it does. this is the state supreme court. this isn't federal statute or anything. it doesn't go to the u.s. supreme court. what happens to those in other states outside alabama? how likely is this to touch them? >> right. this creates a lot of

uncertainty in an environment where there's already so much uncertainty surrounding what sorts of medical care you can still get after the dobbs decision. there's really a chill on what women can access. here is what happened, peter. in dobbs, the supreme court said it's up to every state to decide what its rules around abortion are. alabama is one of the states that adopted a rule that says that life begins at conception. in addition to making all abortion illegal, it was only a matter of time until something like this happened, an attack on ivf. this one came in an unusual context involving parents suing for negligence, involved in the handling of these embryos. that ruling means that it's possible that mishandling or abuse of embryos could lead to criminal charges, including murder. now we have this unusual environment. will it spread to other states? i think it's very likely it

will. there's already been a conversation in florida about using this ruling to attack ivf. possibly some states will actually create ivf as an exception to their fetal personhood laws. that's already underway in the alabama legislature this morning. >> we talked about patients. talk about providers as well. they have real concerns. >> they are saying they are in a bind. that's why they pressed pause. they are not saying they will eventually start again, but they need to press pause. >> but it's tough if you are five or six shots into it. >> that's why patients decided they want to move forward. as of right now, what we are talking about is a civil law. that civil law is for wrongful death. the only person who has standing to sue is the parents. that's why the patients are telling me, i just want my embryos. i'm not going to sue the clinic. i want my embryos back. as joyce pointed out, it doesn't mean it might get extended down

the line. but as of right now, they are civil lawsuits. since it's happened to a very narrow set of people, it's incredible that this has spun out to affect so many people. >> joyce, in a lot of ways this is a political nightmare. i'm the guy in this group who covers politics. but a lot of republicans publically right now are trying to distance themselves. we didn't mean it to go to this place. it does have the potential for real impact. the biden white house is trying to enforce the message. as you noted in my last question to you, this all stems from that dobbs decision. this is an extension of the decision that was made by the supreme court thanks in large part to those three justices who were appointed by the former president, donald trump. >> absolutely that's the case. we are seeing the political fallout in alabama where state legislators were quick to rush back to the floor with legislation. there are bills in both the house and senate in alabama that would say, whatever else we have

seen in our laws and the rules that we have adopted, we didn't mean to say that embryos were children and ivf can move forward. that's a little bit of a inconsistecy is the nicest word for it. it does open the door to when else can you have exception? would this apply to ectopic pregnancy? would it apply to rape and incest in states that have difficult rules that don't permit abortion even there? the political problems that this exposes republicans to are nothing compared to the uncertainty that it exposes american women who are just trying to get medical care to. >> that's a really important point. joyce vance in alabama for us. nice to see you. laura jarrett, get some rest. see you tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. battle lines, the situation on the ground for ukrainian forces pleading for more military aid from both the united states and from its

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this election is about who shares your values. that's how you business differently. let me share mine.

i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. will ukrainians survive without congress support? of course. but not all of us. and if we understand this, if the world is ready for this, okay, you will see it.

it's tragedy. it will be tragedy for all of us. >> some of us will survive but not all of us. that dire warning from president zelenskyy as his country faces a third year of war with russia. the senate majority leader is there in ukraine hoping to pressure congressional republicans to pass $60 billion in additional aid before it's too late. today is day 730 of the fighting. as richard engel found, russia is taking full advantage. >> reporter: we went to the front, driving to where russian troops are closing in. without american weapons, the town could be the next to fall. this is the town hall. it was destroyed by russian strikes. on the wall, ukrainian troops have left a message. we are not asking for too much.

we just need artillery shells and aviation. the rest we do ourselves. >> joining me now is clint watts. i'm glad you are with us. richard engel was on the eastern front there. we know ukraine recently lost territory, a city by the name of avdiivka. it's the first time they lost land like this in approaching a year. zelenskyy was on the frontlines. called it extremely difficult. blaming in part delays in the arrival of new weapons. how much have the frontlines changed over the last two years? how at risk are the ukrainian people? >> peter, just looking at this map a year ago compared to a year and a day ago, it would look the same with a few minor points around this line. you will see this battle line right here to the east and to the south.

if we zoom in, we are talking about marginal changes in terms of this battlefield. you might remember, prigozhin last year about this time made some gains around bakhmut. that was with losses to the wagner forces. what you just referenced there, avdiivka, this area, the russians have taken some gains. the ukrainians have lost some forces there, unfortunately. at the same point, the russians have taken massive military losses in terms of vehicles, artillery expenditure and manpower. they will use manpower. they will use men to keep pushing forward incrementally across all of the turf. every one of these light blue pockets that you see here, here in the south near zaporizhzhia, here robotyne, same thing, russian forces making inkrument -- incremental gains. this entire line here, you are not seeing much significant activity.

there's a lot of worry that the russian military defense industrial base, all of their weapons and equipment will eventually overwhelm the ukrainians if they don't get needed aid. >> our sky news partner -- this very marketable. ukrainian anti-tank unit using a screw driver and hammer to repair the only weapon, a soviet era bazooka. with the needs so dire, what is the urgency? how much time do they have to play with? >> here is the big change. the russians, they lost tremendous combat power, military assault trucks, everything, armored columns, all devastated in the first two years of the war. the russians have something that the ukrainians don't. they have their own military industrial base that can produce weapons and ammunition. they have picked all of that up. separately, the drone coming from iran being used by the russians, ballistic missiles

from north korea being used by the russians. the ukrainians are reliant on the alliances of the eu and nato and the united states. they need artillery supplies. they need air defensive missiles. ammunition in many forms to include for defensive fighting positions going forward. >> as president biden said, this is not money that's given as charity. it's money that goes to american weapons manufacturers and the weapons are sent over -- they back up the u.s. weaponry. u.s. weapons are sent over to help the ukraiian armed forces. appreciate your expertise. simmering tensions, how strained relations between china and taiwan could become a bigger problem for american officials. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" here on msnbc. . it's the only migraine medication that can treat and prevent my attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea,

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house china committee was in taiwan yesterday reaffirming america's support. china says it opposes u.s. interference in chinese affairs. the u.s. does not formally recognize taiwan as a country. china wants to keep it that way. meanwhile, what are called the kinman islands could be caught in the middle of a future military conflict. we go there through the lens of an oscar-nominated documentary. >> two opposing military forces close enough to see each other and hear each other. taiwan's islands just over an island from the mainland. littered with warnings of past and future problems. china beefing up its presence there. >> a war in the taiwan strait

would be of global proportions which would impact europe, asia and america. >> at the peak of tensions, china, which considers taiwan its territory, dropped close to half a million bombs. >> it's a beautiful natural environment but bunkers. >> the movie is a rare look at the very location many worry another global conflict could start. >> it's a cork in the communist invasion bottle, performing the same role as does berlin in europe. >> with historical stakes just as high. >> to indicate in advance how we would respond, to indicate the nature of the response would be incorrect. >> the commander has said these islands are not worth the bones of a single american. >> today, worth at minimum american dollars.

over $4 billion in the senate's recent bill for taiwan, echoing support from both presidential candidates. >> if president xi were to invade, president -- >> i won't say. >> are you willing to get involved military to defend taiwan if it comes to that? >> yes. >> you are? >> that's a commitment we made. >> white house officials backtracked saying policy of unofficial recognition of taiwan had not changed. officially for taiwan, just this month, contracts awarded for missiles. >> what should the next president consider about this theater? >> when the obama administration pivots to asia, it meant that u.s. policy going forward would be tied to things like defense of taiwan. >> also tied to hollywood it seems. the only selection from or about taiwan in this year's oscars. they said how largely forgotten this flashpoint is.

>> the situation between taiwan and china is in this perpetual stalemate. the people in taiwan are trapped in between. that's how i feel. >> trapped in between two global identities and countries. for as many as 1 million americans with ties to taiwan, in between may be where they feel they belong. >> richard, i didn't know anything about the islands. the fact -- taiwan is close enough to china. the islands are within a mile of taiwan is so remarkable there. you can only imagine the plight the people on that island face, the congressional delegation, their visit drew the ire of the chinese. did the topic come up in the islands there? >> it's getting a lot of attention, especially when you see the conversation of those who have ties to taiwan. two passports, one from taiwan, one from the united states for him. the fact that many believe --

those who have tie to taiwan, using taiwan, talking to china and the united states, as a political football when it comes to international security, something you have reported on personally, i know. on top of that, victor chau said you have to look at taiwan as an outpost of democracy, one that in the next four years -- he is talking to the presidential candidates -- you have to keep an eye on. >> i hear at the white house, the concern is what happens in ukraine could spread elsewhere in the world. china is watching closely vladimir putin's success rate to try to do something similar in that region. thanks for sharing that story. learned a lot. how a new orleans magician pulled off a fake biden robocall that sent shockwaves through the new hampshire primary. you will have to hear this. this is "andrea mitchell reports." it's next on msnbc. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle.

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moments, how about this? a magician and a fake robocall is not something anybody had on their 2024 bingo card. this robocall used an ai-generated voice of president biden to tell new hampshire democrats to skip last month's primary. the scheme has now launched a multistate investigation. the magician for hire here, paul carpenter tells nbc news that he was paid by a consultant, a guy named steve cramer who worked for the democratic congressman and presidential candidate dean phillips to make that fake biden robocall. phillips and his campaign said their relationship ended weeks ago and the magician who spoke to my colleague is warning people not to be so easily tricked by ai, adding that people are not ready for it. joining me now "politico" white house correspondent and playbook co-author, eugene daniels, fred

upton, and brendan buck, the former communication adviser to house speaker paul ryan and john boehner. let's start with this new reporting in particular. there's a lot to start with, not the least of which is the fact like something like this could happen. the back story is it's an entirely different line. ai is a threat heading into 2024? >> yeah, as soon as i read this story, i said why not a magician created this for new hampshire. i think, you know, when you talk to the campaigns, when you talk to this white house, they're extremely concerned about how ai currently and more importantly in the future will impact the way that voters engage in campaigns, right? we've already talked about for years the misinformation and disinformation that comes from outside entities, right, when you think about countries like russia or china meddling and possibly interfering in elections here and across the globe, but this is right here in our own backyard, and so how

do -- we saw a lot of the ceos of companies on the hill recently, so how do you get these companies to actually figure out how -- the ai protections, the kinds of things, the guardrails because right now when you talk to folks, it's the wild west. it's not just going to impact our elections. it's going to impact every part of culture, right? you had the taylor swift picture that was on twitter recently, and so all kinds of things are going to be impacted by this, but this campaign is probably -- this is not the last time we're going to see this in this campaign. >> you're exactly right, and your newsroom like all of our news rooms right now has to be on special watch, i'm not volunteering this information. this is already happening in real ways, that there's some ai that shows one of the candidates, donald trump or joe biden as if they are saying something with their face there on camera, their lips moving and it's not actually them saying anything such thing. it has real ramifications a lot of people have to keep an eye

on. fred, i want to ask you about what's next for us, the michigan primary next tuesday after the south carolina voters have their say this weekend. give us the lay of the land for republicans and democrats. this sort of it is the first test of joe biden support among the muslim and arab community in michigan against the backdrop of the war between israel and hamas right now. >> well, particularly in southeast michigan, dear born is a large population of palestinian folks. it's always been there. you got my former colleague talib, that's her as well. she of course now has called for voting for democrats to vote noncommittal. so don't vote for biden. vote for noncommitted, and andy levin, former congressman, he's suggesting the same thing. he's joined with talib.

their object and they're using a lot of calls, you know, previous report campaigns are run by robocalls and calls to get voters out there, they've been calling thousands of folks to say vote uncommitted. don't necessarily vote for biden. we want to send a message as it relates to trying to get a cease fire. but the other factor that is in play is like we saw in south carolina for the democrats a couple -- two weeks ago, yes, biden got 96% of the vote, but the turnout was under 5%. i expect in michigan we're going to have a very low turnout, and in fact, that noncommittal vote, if they get their forces there, they're working the campuses, that type of thing, it could be a pretty big embarrassment to joe biden, similar to none of the above in nevada for trump, for nikki haley a couple of weeks ago. >> and of course here we're talking about a primary. then the issue comes for the general election this fall and the question do you want to ask a lot of members there of

american communities and states around michigan, you know donald trump's position on this, is it better to allow in their view donald trump back into the oval office or would you prefer joe biden be there someone you think you can try to convince to do something different going forward. brendan. >> and the uncertainty with the uaw fearing that that's going to take away jobs, you know, it's -- michigan will be a swing state for hur. >> sure. >> president biden celebrating the uaw endorsement, he hopes that goes a long way in michigan this fall. brendan, there was to you best described a cringey moment at donald trump's town hall when he was teasing the potential vice presidential picks. he touted senator tim scott of south carolina while also putting him down. here it was. >> i have to say this is in a very positive way, tim's got -- he has been much better for me than he was for himself. i watched his campaign, and he doesn't like talking about himself, but boy does he talk

about trump. i called him, i said tim, you're better for me than you were for yourself. >> it's sort of the sycophantish behavior of so many of these vice presidential possibilities right now that is sort of remarkable to watch in this climate, brendan. >> yeah, and that's the ultimate thing donald trump is looking for in a vp potential nominee. obviously first and foremost, he wants somebody who's going to be obedient, and that's what we saw with mike pence for four years until the very end. look, donald trump is going to be able to have his choice of folks out there. four years ago there was a real debate in the party about what kind of person we wanted to have as the vp, the establishment wing of the party was rallying for mike pence who was a traditional conservative who might be able to rein in donald trump. that's not going to happen this time. most people might be afraid of being donald trump's vp. i think the people in the running for this realize this is where the party is and this is where the party is going to be for a long time. if they want to have a future,

it's probably not bad to be next to donald trump who only has four more years left. so all of these people are thinking they are potentially the next president. -- >> brendan, my time's out, they're going to yell at me, but what is nikki haley's calculus here assuming she loses by double-digits? >> her campaign was built around the idea that donald trump would implode and she would be there in case that happens. of course that never happens with republican voters, he never implodes. she may say she's going to stick around, but everybody says that until they don't. we'll see. >> brendan buck, fred upton, congressman, we appreciate you. always nice to see you. eugene daniels there. it's friday, remember to follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. i'll be back with you tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern for "saturday today" on nbc. no rest for the weary. chris jansing my friend has "chris jansing reports" right