childhood illnesses so we don't end up back in the 18th century. >> are you concerned that this is just the start? i should say we've only got 30 seconds, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on that. >> we're creating a generation where fewer kids are vaccinated. it only means a future where fewer of our community members have the immunity it needs. the way vaccines work is they protect us and they build a wall of immunity it if enough of us have them. if enough of us don't have it, we will see more outbreaks in the future. >> doctor, good to see you again. thank you so much for coming on the program. that is going to do it for us this hour. join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. our coverage continues "katy tur reports" right now. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. do sanctions work? when russia invaded ukraine two

years ago, the u.s. and its allies dropped the most extensive sanctions and trade restrictions in history on moscow. and continue to drop them as vladimir putin's aggression ramped up. the sanctions targeted russia's elites, its oil prices, its banks and its access to high-tech products and military gear. now, in response to the death of russian opposition leader alexei navalny, president biden has unleashed even more. america's largest one-day round of penalties since moscow's invasion. more than 500 sanctions targeting russia's finance and defense sectors. and those involved with navalny's death described by a state department official as crushing. but what exactly makes this time different? to the surprise of many, russia has been doing okay in the past two years. its economy grew by 3% last year. india, brazil and china are buying record quantities of record oil, so much so that

moscow's monthly income from oil experts is greater than it was before the ukraine invasion, according to a bloomberg report and russia's war effort itself with all the spending that comes along with it has been an economic scaffold, so what's going to make this round different? joining us now from kharkiv, nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel. and msnbc political analyst, peter baker. richard, what does it look like on the ground in ukraine as the u.s. levees yet another round of sanctions all while the u.s.'s congress is stalled on giving any more military aid to ukraine? >> reporter: so they don't have a lot of confidence here in ukraine in the sanctions. they've seen sanctions, thousands of them imposed by the united states and europe and other of ukraine's allies on russia, on russian individuals. on oligarchs, there have been

boats that have been taken. there have been a whole host of actions, yet, the war keeps going. vladimir putin continues to find more troops, drafting up people in society. forcing them into service in some cases. using convicts, pressing them into service. using mercenary groups. when his supplies of weapons run low, he reaches out to other rogue states like iran and north korea. so from where i stand here in ukraine, people have no confidence in the sanctions. they see that russia's economy is still work to go a degree, perhaps as well as it was ever working. it is often an informal economy with a big black mark and a lot of corruption, and the war machine continues to grind away at this country. what they need, they'll tell you here is not banking reform or different kinds of attacks on the russian industrial base, but

they say they need his weapons, and they need his air defenses and need them quickly. >> and congress is stalled on that. peter, let's talk about the sanctions specifically. does the white house think this time is going to be any different? >> they're going to say that of course. but the truth is it's more of the same. they are targeting individuals and entities that had something to do with the russian state, something to do with navalny's imprisonment. putin sanction proofed his economy. he saw what was done in 2014, and he had eight years between that original invasion of ukraine and the full fledged one he lost in 2022 to refashion the economy and do what he imagined might happen if he went full scale on ukraine as he did. and part of what he's done is cozy up in effect with china, india and others who have supplanted the west in terms of economic trade. so, no, these aren't going to do anything that's going to change the course of behaviors.

there's no reason to believe this would be different. there are two things the west could do that they haven't chosen to do, aside from sending more weapons. you have a much tighter cut off of oil and a price cap, but not a complete cutoff of oil. there's a question whether that would hurt. it would hurt europe. the other thing is to take the $300 billion worth of russian assets frozen in the west, and seize those assets and use them either for weapons in ukraine or reconstruction or something like that. there are legal questions about how much you can go. that's something that should have an impact on russia. they'll do sanctions like this, send an important signal. i don't think anybody thinks they're going to change behavior. >> can you go a little bit deeper, peter, on why there's hesitation to do that? >> there are legal issues. what is the authority to do that. how would you justify that, and what precedent would you set for the future, right?

there are issues there that people of good faith are raising when they object to it. i think right now the reason why the biden administration doesn't want to go there at this particular moment, even if they might go eventually is they don't want to let congress off the hook. if they take $300 billion, we don't need to spend money on weapons because you've got all of that money there in the first place. they want to keep this as a last resort, if they need it down the road. they're thinking about after the war. they want to avoid doing anything that leaves russia crippled when the war is over. hearing that that could be a dangerous situation in his own right. they're calibrating, you know, the amount of pain that they're willing to impose on russia, trying to figure out what they think is the right middle ground. >> what's state of ukraine's resistance right now? >> well, ukrainians are holding up, and they are able to defend the front line to a degree. and the russian military is not

50 feet fall. i just spoke a short time ago with a senior nato intelligence official, and he was telling me that the russians have lost a lot of troops in their attempts to take the city which they did ultimately take, suffering their highest casualty rate since the war began, losing thousands of people and hundreds of vehicles. so the ukrainians are still putting up a fight, but they are, i don't want to say losing but they're on their back foot right now. they are losing territory. not sure if they're losing the war yet. that's a bigger statement, more of a judgment call but they are certainly losing ground. they only have enough weapons, and this has been told to me by different commanders all along, different front line communities along the sort of roughly 1,000 kilometer long front line. it's an enormous front line. and commanders say they don't have the weapons to go on the

offensive. they can hold their territory or try and hold their territory. there have been places they are slipping, where they are not able to defend themselves because they don't have enough troops, and they're trying to figure that out. they're trying to do another round of domestic recruiting here, which is very sensitive because they're not recruiting convicts. they're recruiting from the population. the war is happening on ukrainian territory and it is ukrainian civilians, in addition to soldiers who are dying, not the case in russia. i would say for the first time in the war, in there's last two years, ukrainians are in a very weak position. i would say probably their weakest that they have been since the war began on the front lines. >> richard engel. thank you very much. and peter baker, thank you as well. joining us is the ceo of the hermitage capital, bill browder,

the driving force against u.s. forces, while his lawyer died in a russian prison. talk to me about this $300 billion in assets that you believe, which is currently being seized right now, you believe should be confiscated and handed over to the ukrainians. >> about a week after the war began, one of the biggest and probably most impressive actions of all the allies countries was to take all of the russian central bank reserves, money that belongs to the russian government that was held at the u.s. federal reserve, the european central bank, bank of england, et cetera. it totalled somewhere north of $300 billion, and to freeze it. and that money was frozen. and then the war has carried on. and we have seen with our own eyes the massive destruction that putin has imposed on ukraine, and depending on whose estimates you believe, that number is well north of 300 billion.

it could be close to a trillion. and then so we have a situation where putin has caused this damage. we have custody of this 300 billion, and it seems pretty obvious to me that if putin broke it, he should fix it. he should pay for it. and this is an argument i started making about two years ago, and for a long time people sort of looked at me askance and said we can't do that, that's weird. that's not in the tradition of how these things play out. as time has gone on, and more damage has been done, and more money we have had to spend from the west just to support the ukrainians, the more attractive this idea has become. we're now in a situation where there's a piece of legislation going through the senate called the repo act, which would confiscate the russian money held in the united states. i know the british foreign secretary cameron is talking about doing the same thing in britain, and of course the eu,

which is where most of the money is, 220 billion of the 300, they're still sort of saying, you know what, maybe we'll take the interest but not the principal, et cetera, et cetera. ultimately, i think this is going to be like the tanks and the missiles and the f 16s, we started out being hesitant, but as the reality sunk in, it becomes something that's actually done. i'm predicted that over some period of time in the near future, that money gets confiscated. >> why do you think that money is going to make a difference. why do you think that would affect putin in the way the sanctions have not? >> well, i mean, it's dramatic. look at the situation. we're the very far right of the maga wing of the republican party has withheld $63 billion of military aid. as richard engel said, they're running out of ammo on the front lines of ukraine. 300 billion is a lot of money, can buy a lot of ammunition, a lot of bombs, missiles, bullets,

guns, and moreover, it's also a very powerful punishment for putin. you know, he values money dramatically more than human life. he's ready to send huge numbers of people to their death in battle, but when you take his money, he goes crazy. it serves two purposes. it serves as a very strong support for ukraine, and where they really need it badly, and two it's a powerful punishment against vladimir putin, and particularly after navalny's murder, he'll make a much stronger case about putin and what he deserves and taking $300 billion does that. >> so you're behind the magnitsky act, named after your lawyer who died under suspicious circumstances. it was enacted in 2012 by the u.s. congress. now you're arguing for a navalny act, what do you think that should do? >> it should be the principle in

which western governments seize the 300 billion. what the navalny act would say is putin, you killed alexei navalny, now you're $300 billion poorer. that would make the point. to sanction a few officials at the polar wolf jail in siberia doesn't make the point, taking $300 billion does. >> there are others that are still in russian jails, members of opposition parties, high profile members, what do you expect might happen to them now that putin arguably felt emboldened enough to kill navalny? >> the person that i'm most close to who's currently serving time in a russian prison is a young russian opposition activist, probably the second most high profile person after

alexei navalny, working with me on the magnitsky act, they hated him for that. they gave him a 25 year jail sentence for basically being one of my associates, and so i'm most concerned about him. they tried to poison him twice. like they had with alexei navalny, he's suffering from the after effects of poisons. he's in a siberian prison, i'm worried about his safety. other political prisoners, ilya yashan, serving eight years. he put out a statement saying how worried he was about, too many to name in this quick moment are the people fighting for democracy, and now they are stuck in jail. i think that the united states and europe should be concerned

about these people and should be doing whatever they can to help these people because when the putin regime fractures and falls, they will be the one to go into the vacuum and pick up the pieces and hopefully create a russia that we can deal with in the west. >> do you think evan gershkovich or paul whelan are in more trouble than they were last unique. >> i think everybody is. putin has shown he doesn't care. if he's ready to kill alexei navalny, they made a documentary about him that won an academy award, person in russia, it shows that putin doesn't care about anything. and i think that his assassination, and that's what it was, a political assassination, in front of the whole world, is a way of putin showing absolute sort of defiance and disregard for any thoughts that we have about what's normal, what's reasonable and what's right.

>> bill browder, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, a duel u.s. russian citizen who has been living and working in los angeles is still being held on treason charges in russia. her boyfriend is now pleading for her release. he'll join us in a moment. plus, a ban on social media for kids under 16 just passed the house and senate in florida. what is in the bill. we'll talk to a cosponsor of the bipartisan legislation. but first, donald trump has bragged that he was behind the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade. now that it could be back firing politically on republicans, well, he's starting to say something a little bit different. don't go anywhere. we're back in 60 seconds. if back in 60 seconds if and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler,

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nikki haley is going back and forth on where she stands on ivf, donald trump has just weighed in, posting that the alabama legislature should move quickly to find a solution on the procedure. even though he's still bragging about paving the way for it. >> they're great people, neil gorsuch, brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett. nobody thought that was even going to be possible. we fought. this was not an easy thing to do. from my first day in office, i took historic action to protect the unborn like nobody has ever done, and i was able to bring this issue for the first time in 54 years back to the states where everybody agrees on both sides, everybody agrees that's where it should be. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard in rock hill, south carolina, ahead of a campaign event there, and nbc news correspondent, ali vitali who's traveling, as you can see to nikki haley's next campaign stop in mount pleasant.

vaughn, donald trump had taken his time to weigh in on this ivf thing. might he have seen polling done by, i don't know, kellyanne conway saying that the vast majority of pro life voters, evangelical voters, support ivf. >> we have seen republican u.s. senate candidates come out in support of ivf. this is where it's notable here. these are the consequences of roe v. wade being overturned is the state courts like this one in alabama making the decision to essentially halt ivf or allowing the medical facilities to make this decision. so for donald trump, there is a recognition that abortion in 2022 he said publicly said it from the campaign stage, hurt candidates. and that's where he says he has taken a position. one that we believe should be exceptions, and the situation of rape, incest or the life of the mother, and now that's where it's notable here in just the

last hour, donald trump releasing his position on ivf. i want to let you look at it in part. he posted it to his social media account before he appears here in south carolina for a rally. in just a few minutes, he writes, we want to make it easier for mothers and fathers to have babies, that's including supporting the availability of fertility treatments like ivf in every state in america. like the overwhelming majority americans, including vast majority of, i support the ability of ivf for couples. i'm calling on the alabama legislature to act quickly to find an immediate solution to preserve the availability of ivf. will they take this sort of a move. you hear tim scott, the senator out of south carolina, he just took the stage, about to introduce donald trump there himself. >> so this is what makes it so confusing that nikki haley, who is in the past argued for more

reasonable approaches to abortion, makes it so confusing and maybe surprising that she's so mealy mouthed on the issue of ivf. >> reporter: certainly when i did the interview with her earlier this week that touched off haley having to backtrack on her comments on ivf, she was actually quite clear, embryos to me are babies, and then after the immediate after math of that said she was just talking about her personal position. then policy wise she wanted to take a nuanced approach. when you legislate around conversations that patients and their doctors can have, when you see in a place like alabama, patients and doctors are not able to have the kind of candid conversations that haley would want them to have because of supreme court rulings like this one. we're watching a chilling effect on the ground, with fertility

clinics not being able to do their work. being against ivf or anything that could hinder access is unpopular. according to kellyanne conway's old polling. that's broadly known in other polls as well. that's why she's trying to explain away her position. a politician, when they say their stance, and haley was clear when she said she believes embryos are babies. >> thank you very much. coming up next, republicans and democrats in the florida legislature have passed a ban on social media for kids under 16. we're going to explain what they're doing. what they're doing. we got you — with medicare advantage's largest national provider network. only from unitedhealthcare. for nourished, lightweight hair, the right ingredients make all the difference. new herbal essences sulfate free is now packed with plant-based ingredients your hair will love. like pure aloe and camellia flower oil.

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the florida state legislature just pass add bill that would ban social media for children under 16. the bill targets apps that have any addictive features like infinite scroll, push notifications and like or view metrics. lawmakers say the effort is meant to protect kids from excessive or compulsive use. citing rising rates of mental health issues, including child suicide. joining us now, florida state representative, michelle rainer. she's cosponsored the bill. thank you very much for joining us. let me ask you this, i imagine there's not a whole lot that the florida state legislature agrees to en masse, republicans and democrats. why this issue? >> listen, you know, first, katy, thank you so much for having me.

you're absolutely right. i am a democrat, and i was very clear yesterday, you know, there are no republican children, there are no democratic children. this is not a partisan issue. this is a policy issue, and i want to say it's a matter of life and death. we have seen what has happened to our children wrapped to social media, and this is a place where you see people from all sides, different spectrums of life. different walks of life. we are able to come together and agree that we have to act to protect our children, something that, you know, that has not really happened at this level. >> it can be difficult for parents to be the ones solely responsible for regulating social media, regulating what kids can see online, what apps they can download. ron desantis, the governor of florida is not so reportedly ready to sign this bill. do you expect him to get on board. i know changes were made in the senate to the bill.

do you know what those changes are, and do you think that's going to sway him? >> you know, the changes that were made in the senate is to encompass language to protect children from online pornography. governor desantis, it's clear that he and i agree on very little. however, he says he agrees we need to protect children from social media. if that's his intent and what he agrees to, then he should have no problem signing this bill. i know he has constitutional concerns. i wonder where they were when he removed aaron warren, that's another conversation, but this bill can stand up to the constitutional muster and at the end of the day, it is incumbent upon us as lawmakers to act if the governor says he cares about children and families, i ask him to put his money where his mouth is and sign the bill. >> i want to ask you about the

constitutional muster and why you think it will work when other bills have not won in court. let me ask specifically, when you're talking about why this is necessary, what have you seen out there, what have you experienced out there with kids and social media that leads you and other lawmakers in the florida state legislature to believe that the way to solve is it to not leave it in the hands of the parents but to legislate on it. >> that's a great question. my cosponsor, one of them, i have two republicans, representative tyler saroya and afian amc farland. he talks about how he went into a coffee shop, knowing who he was and was talking to a young girl, hey, you know, the florida legislature is thinking about banning social media for kids under 16. what do you think about it. and the young girl says to him without hesitation, i think that's a great idea. i wish that would have happened when i was a kid, maybe i could have enjoyed my childhood.

not only have we seen bully,ing, trafficking, self-harm, children being exposed to things they should not be exposed to, all while social media companies know what they're doing. there's documents, discovery given over lawsuits that show that they know what they're doing. executives being very clear they don't even allow their own children, and so here's the thing that i think makes our bill able to survive any constitutional issue. one, it is not about content. it's not about what you access on social media. it's literally about the design. addictive design mechanisms, whether it's infinite scroll, push notifications, whether it is, you know, editing images, so that is what it's about. it's narrowly tailored to that. the other thing is we have read and watched what happened in other states when they have tried to initiate bans.

and a court in ohio struck their ban down because they said if social media is so bad, why are you even allowing parents to have the decision to be able to access it for their children. and what we believe is that social media is a poison pill. it is a vice, and you wouldn't ask a parent to go sign a consent form for their 13-year-old to drink alcohol, so why would we ask parents to sign a consent form for their child to get on something that has proven time and again that it's harmful to them. >> you know, i'm just looking at this stat from "u.s. news and world report," citing between 2008 and 2018, the suicide rate among 13 and 14-year-olds nationwide more than doubled from roughly two deaths per 100,000 teens in 2008 to five deaths per 100,000 teens a decade later. and that does coincide quite strongly with the advent of the iphone and then the rollout of

social media over the years after that. the iphone came out in 2007. in terms of standing up to constitutional scrutiny, as i mentioned before, other cases that have tried to ban social media have failed in court on first amendment grounds. why do you think this is different? >> you know, katy, as i said, our bill is not about content. it's about a business model these companies employ, a business model that is built on keeping children addicted, whether it's infinite scroll, image editing, push notifications. anything of that sort. that is what our bill is narrowly tailored for. it is not about what content is on these web sites. we understand, i'm a lawyer, you cannot moderate the content that's on this web site. what we can say is that we know these things to be a problem. we know these things to be addictive. we know that this is your business model.

this is your business model because in documents that you do this to engage children, to keep children on the platform. if this is the business model you choose to employ, you may want to rethink about doing business in florida. there's other web sites, such as trevor space that, you know, someone who i identify as queer, that space is wonderful because it doesn't use this. it doesn't use addictive design. if you don't have addictive feature, addictive designs, algorithms pushing harmful content, you're more than welcome for your child to make the decision for your child to access that. what we're saying is this business model, we won't allow that to happen in the state of florida. >> addictive features, not the content. addictive features on these sites. >> correct. >> thank you so much, i really appreciate it. state rep michelle rainer, we appreciate your time and good luck out there. >> thank you so much. coming up, what people in nikki haley's hometown are saying ahead of the presidential primary she's losing there by

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i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. south carolina elected nikki haley as governor twice. as jacob soboroff has learned, that is even true in her hometown. >> reporter: we headed down to bamburg, south carolina, population, 3,000, where nikki haley was born and raised, even

before a massive tornado hit there just last month, the economic devastation was a big concern for residents. now everyone there is talking about whether trump or haley will be best to rebuild. to see how haley's message is resonating, including with a crucial voting block, we visited her hometown of bamburg, population, 3,000. mayor nancy foster says the city is still reeling from an ef2 tornado that demolished her main street on january 10th. >> i had tears. i had tears. >> haley grew up here when the town looked far different, before the construction at interstate 95 diverted most traffic around the city. >> you had hope for nikki haley becoming president for bamburg, but now does that hope mean more because of what's happened here? >> it would be wonderful. >> reporter: the election director said she's expecting high turnout. the people are going to show up on saturday. >> i believe that with all my heart. >> reporter: mary jayne maxwell

is one of the gop voters. >> i think i would support her whether she's from bamburg or not. >> other voters have switched their loyally. >> probably go with trump. i feel like when trump was in office, stuff was a little cheaper, jobs were coming around a little bit more. >> you think bamburg, when all the votes are cast will go for haley or trump? >> i think it will be pretty half and half. >> reporter: here in greenville county, we will be watching the results closely. it's a key county. former president trump barely won here in the 2016 primary and he just eked out a victory over president joe biden in 2020 in greenville county. they are aggressively trying to get out the vote here. >> greenville, south carolina, is a great start of the state. a u.s. duel season was detained in russia on treason charges. what her boyfriend is asking the u.s. to do for her, and why the

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you! your business bank account with quickbooks money now earns 5% apy. (♪♪) that's how you business differently. intuit quickbooks. a russian american duel citizen who's been living and working in los angeles has been detained in russia accused of treason and of fundraising for ukraine. she was in russia visiting her family including her 90-year-old grandmother when she was arrested. now her boyfriend is pleading for help while the u.s. is saying it's complicated.

chris van herdon joins us now. thank you for being here. your girlfriend has been detained. you were traveling right before she went back to russia. i believe you were in turkey. did she have any concerns going back to her country? >> not even a little bit. she was so naive. and she was so excited to just go home. no, she has nothing to worry about. she is there in russia, and she made it clear, there's no bombs falling in russia. i have nothing to worry about. she's fine. she was excited. >> were you nervous? >> i was. i was. because there's a war going on, and the tension between russia and usa and she being an american citizen coming from the u.s., so i was like, i don't think it's a good idea.

but she convinced me that it's okay, and she acted very normal. not even worried a little bit. i almost went with her, and i didn't. >> have you been able to be in touch her either directly or indirectly? >> i got a letter two days ago from her, she wrote me a letter. >> what did it say? >> it's a love letter. it's a love letter. she keeps apologizing for putting me through what i'm going through right now, and i'm like, this is who she is. she always puts other people first. she's the kindest person you'll meet, and one day she is very positive and strong, and she believes she'll be back in my arms back home, and one day she says i'll sit on the bed and stare at a wall for six hours, and i can't remember names because i'm blank. it's up and down for her. >> gosh, it must be so difficult

for you right now. obviously for her as well. have you had any contact with the american government? i know u.s. officials are saying it's difficult because although she is an american-russian citizen, russia doesn't recognize duel citizens. >> i have been in contact with the u.s. state department, but no one can tell me nothing. just monitoring the situation. >> what are you asking them to do? >> bring her back. she's so proud to be american. help me find a way to bring ksenia back. she honestly, she needs to be back here. she's the kindest, sweetest person. she has done nothing wrong. in the sense of she's just a kind person. just bring her back. >> how is her family doing, her mom and dad? >> i have contact with her mom

and dad. they're scared. they don't talk much, but they are scared. >> what is the expectation for what might happen to her? i know we've seen evan gershkovich, an american "wall street journal" reporter is being tried for treason. she's also being tried for treason, and for fundraising for ukraine. he's being charged with espionage, excuse me. she's being charged with something different. do the lawyers tell you that they expect there to be a more lenient sentence or more lenient dealing with her? >> i know on the 29th in russia she's appearing in court on the 29th, and i believe they're going to try if that's not successful, we got to wait until april for the trial to start. they just -- they say it's a very serious and difficult situation, and she might face up

to 20 years, and during that, i don't want to believe it. >> god, yeah, 20 years. that would be awful. chris, thank you very much for joining us, and we're so sorry, so, so sorry that you're going through this. it's just awful. >> thank you so much. we have breaking news out of new york city. the judgment in donald trump's civil fraud trial has been signed by the judge and officially entered. the total judgment for the former president now stands at not $354 million but $454 million. joining us now is lisa ruben. thank you very much for rushing to a camera. why is it so much higher than what we recorded last week? >> so, katy, the award last week reflected the profits or ill-gotten gains that the judge determined that the trump defendants had to return, and in each case, he said they owed prejudgment interest dating back to different dates. for example, the first

$168 million that donald trump and his companies owe in interest that they saved through their fraud. that prejudgment interest dates back to march 4, 2019, almost five years ago. the judgment that was entered today incorporates actual dollar amounts for all of that prejudgment interest, and therefore, the total judgment itself has now been raised by almost $100 million for donald trump alone. now, after today, it will continue to accrue 9% interest annually, and we estimate that that's around $111,000 per day starting today. >> $111,000 per day starting today. he's got 30 days to appeal this. does it pause for the 30-day appeal, or is it just ongoing now? >> it continues to accrue, that's my understanding, until he obtains a stay, and the way, of course, to obtain a stay is not only by filing what's called

a notice of appeal but by posting an undertaking. that's a fancy way of saying either the entirety of the judgment and then some, or you get a company or other paying person to put that up for you and behind the scenes, you might pay that person a down payment and give them some collateral. we don't know how donald trump will post that undertaking, let alone if he will post that undertaking. we'll all have to wait and see. i have been told, katy, however, by the new york attorney general's office that if donald trump posts an undertaking, it won't necessarily be transparent to any of us who is doing that for him or whether he's put up the cash himself. >> lisa, thank you very much. that's quite a giant number. $454 million. and $111,000 accruing every single day. coming up, what the deputy treasury secretary has to say about concerns that russian sanctions still don't go far enough. he joins he next right here onset. enough he joins he next right here onset.

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i assure them his legacy will continue to live around the world, and we in the united states are going to continue to ensure that putin pays the price for his aggression abroad and repression at home. america stands up for freedom. we never bow to anyone. particularly putin. >> today, the white house unleashed more than 500 sanctions against russia over its war in ukraine and the death of russian opposition leader alexei navalny, the largest round of penalties since the war began. joining us now, deputy treasury secretary wally adeyama. thank you for being here. good to see you in-person. talk to me about these sanctions and why you think they're going to make a difference. >> thank you for having me, and our plan today was to send a clear message to take action that would stop russia from being able to produce the weapons they need for the war they want in ukraine but also to reduce russia's revenues. we released more than 500 sanctions, but it wasn't just the united states. it was our allies and partners around the world with a clear message to russia that we're

going to continue to do this as long as their invasion continues. >> is vladimir putin hearing that message? a lot of sanctions have been levied against him and the russian economy is growing. >> he's clearly hear that message from russian officials. their deputy prime minister just commented on the impact that the price cap and what we've done on energy sanctions is having on their ability to gain additional revenues, and today, we're going to take additional actions to go after russia's state-owned shipping company, the largest shipping company in russia, and to sanction them as well and go after some of their ships in order to increase russia's cost but to reduce their revenues, while allowing russia to continue to sell oil. >> that's news. you're going to go after the largest shipping company with sanctions. what are those sanctions? >> this sanctions will mean this company is sanctioned and 14 other vessels will also be sanctioned, but the goal here is to increase russia's cost so they have less money to pay for their war. ultimately, it will reduce russia's revenues, but russia will still have the ability to

sell their oil. they'll just make less money doing it going forward. >> what about banning russian oil? has the administration considered putting an outright ban on russian oil? >> the reason we put a price cap on russian oil was because we wanted to make sure we did two things, reduce russia's revenues but don't increase the cost of energy for the rest of the world, and we succeeded in doing that to date. russia's revenue from energy is down 40% in 2023, and we've seen energy prices in the rest of the world come down. our goal is to make that even starker for russia, and that's why we're taking the actions of going after their largest shipping company. >> i had bill on earlier in the show, and he was talking about the $350 billion that's been frozen in russian assets. he's arguing and others are arguing that the united states should take those assets and not just freeze them but seize them and give them to ukraine. >> it's important for us to remember why those $300 billion are mobilized today and that's because at the beginning of the

war, president biden and the leaders of the g7 stopped those assets from going back the russia, so russia doesn't have access to that money. at the end of last year, they told us to now start working on ways to make sure that russia pays for the damage they've done in ukraine. we're doing that work now with our g7 allies and considering a number of options that will mean that russia has to pay for the damage they've done there. over time. >> so, is the $300 billion taking it and giving it to ukraine on the table? >> we're considering all kinds of options, including the seizing of the assets, but also in europe, they've come up with an innovative idea where they're taking a windfall tax on the earnings from those assets and giving them to ukrainian people. all of these things are being considered. the thing the president's made clear is that we want to make sure we act with our allies and partners when we do this, because fundamentally, one of the things that has frustrated the kremlin the most is that the united states has led a coalition that includes 50% of the world's economy that's refusing to allow the kremlin to gain from their war in ukraine. we're going to continue to do that going forward. >> we're running out of time, but does the administration have

hope that the house is going to pass the security bill that includes funding ukraine? >> we know that a majority of house members, including democrats and republicans, support passing this legislation, because they know the consequences are real. as secretary austin has said, putin will not stop with ukraine. it's important while what i do with sanctions slows down russia's ability to build the weapons they need, we need to give ukraine the weapons they need to defend themselves, and that's exactly what congress needs to do. >> deputy treasury secretary wally adeyamo, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi, everyone, it is 4:00 here in washington, d.c. i'm alicia menendez in for nicole wallace. it is brazen even by the standards of team trump. attorneys for the ex-president are pushing to