d other companies. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. we're coming up on three hours of voting in the south carolina primary, and today for pm eastern, achilles jen psaki and jonathan kaye part will kick off special election day coverage on msnbc, and then at 6:30, rachel maddow antigua pick up analysis with steve kornacki at the big board. then after that, michael, alicia, and myself will be at the desk, not a bigger desk, to cap off a coverage. and then we will see you back here bright nearly tomorrow morning it it is on the weekend to unpack it all. but for now, that does it for us on this saturday morning. velshi starts right now.

ali, we are just waited with bated breath for your interview. we have a lot of special coverage. it's unbelievable that it's been two years, and thanks for the cameras that you just it on. and you guys have a good weekend, i will see you tomorrow. and good morning to you, it is saturday, february 24th, i am ali velshi. today marks two years since russia launched its full scale invasion of ukraine. it is a remarkable milestone for a small country that many people did not think could last even two months fighting vladimir putin's army. there was even a moment at the start of the war when it seemed like ukraine could fall within days. at this very hour two years ago, unknown to, us a small group of ukrainian soldiers, most of whom had never seen combat before, were fighting russia for control of antonov airfield. it was located about 20 miles northwest of kyiv. russians launched a offensive on the ground and by air, and by the afternoon february 24th,

2022, they managed to push the ukrainians out and hoist the russian flag over the airfield, within sight of the high-rises in downtown kyiv. they expected the ukrainians to capitulate, but the ukrainians kept fighting, crucially, they destroyed the runway, hundred that critical airfield unusable to the russian troops. that single move in the now storied battle of kyiv prevent russia from landing huge cargo planes, which would've brought troops, armored vehicles, and supplies, the things that would've led to the fall of kyiv. it was a key moment of resistance in the early hours of the war that grave ukrainian forces time to shore up defenses around the capitol. it proved that ukrainians had determination to protect their country. in those early days, the world watched as ordinary citizens lined up to join the army or the civil defense force, or to

volunteer, or to donate blood, or to help in any way they could. volodymyr zelenskyy, the former sitcom star, turned president, captivated millions as he posted videos from the streets of key speaking worth of defiance from the outset, zelenskyy was clear on one thing. ukraine can fight off the invasion, but not alone. ukrainians proof that they could put up a fight against putin's army, but the needed military content and support. the world, led by america, responded, and ukraine receive necessary aid for many parts of the globe, but two years later today, the outlook is murkier. ukrainians have just withdrawn from the southern city of avdiivka, a major setback that zelenskyy has bluntly attributed to his military's quote, deficit of weapons, end quote. meanwhile, a significant faction of the republican party here in the united states continues to grow more

isolationists. for months, now they have succeeded in delaying critical aid to ukraine because donald trump has lobbied hard against it. notably, a u.s. congressional delegation that met with zelenskyy in lviv yesterday included no republicans. but this war has not been great for putin either. his invasion of ukraine was an attempt to stop nato's expansion. instead, it has only spread of the process and convince more countries to join the alliance sooner. finland was just ratified as a member last year, and now sweden is on the very brink of ratification as well. russia now has 800 new miles of nato on its border. yesterday, the hungarian prime minister viktor orban, often thought to be not fully in the fight against russia, announced that he will support sweden's nato membership after stalling for more than a year and a half. trump however has continued to disparage nato, which has revived concerns about what could happen to the alliance if he wins another term, and

whether trump would cozy up to putin again. and in a rally earlier this month, trump went -- to say that if nato companies don't contribute enough to the alliance, he would let russia quote, do whatever the heck they want, end quote. meanwhile, putin continues his aggressive posturing towards the west. russia recently detained a russian american dual citizen on suspicion of treason allegedly because she donated to a ukrainian charity. russia also upheld the detention of american journalist evan gershkovich, who has been accused of spying and has been in custody for nearly a year. those actions have appeared more ominous in the wake of the suspicious death of the russian opposition leader alexei navalny, americas held putin responsible for navalny's death in a summer prison, and yesterday, the biden administration imposed more than 500 new sanctions against russia and response to navalny's death and the second

anniversary of the war in ukraine. now some of the sanctions target russia's financial sector in defense industrial base in hopes of crippling the country's economy and its military supply network. but ukraine also needs help republishing its own stock of artillery and weapons, as the retreat in avdiivka has shown. wars are not one alone. zelenskyy will be the first to tell you that real cranes remarkable resilience is tied to the help that has received from its allies, but as some powerful people in our own congress grow weary and disinterested and continuing to help ukraine, they should be reminded that if ukraine falls, putin will be empowered to continue his march across europe. ukrainians are not, as they remind, us fighting just to protect their country. they are fighting to observe democracy for themselves in the rest of the world. joining me now is -- she's a member of the ukrainian parliament as well as a member of the permit delegation to the

parliamentary assembly of the council of europe. she's also the founder of legal hundred, and nongovernmental human rights organization. miss -- it's good to see you again, and thank you for being with us. on a somber day, it is important on one hand, a celebration to sundry that ukraine never fell. on the other hand, you and i spoke a year ago, and we were very concerned about what would happen if we entered year three of this war. >> exactly. it is a very sad day, the second anniversary of the escalation of russian aggression, let today we mark yet another day in the fight for ukraine's independence, for our freedom, for the safety of our homes and our families. despite the fact that we've been out for ten years, it started in 2014 when russia annexed crimea and the went into the donetsk and luhansk

region. they had been occupying them for eight years until 2022, and ukraine was fighting a war to regain his territory and bring back the lives of those people under the ukrainian flag. in 2022, that war escalated to the levels which you see now, and which we ukrainians lived and now. aerates happening almost on a daily basis, with artillery fire being shot at civilian housing, residential blocks, schools, hospitals. the nightmare continues, the nightmare will continue until there is a firm resolve, not stalling resolve, but a firm, steady resolve to bring the supplies of weapons that were pledged to ukraine and for them to be eased but ukrainians here on the ground to protect ourselves for defense purposes, but also to pushback russian troops out from inside ukraine's borders. >> you point, out i remember when we were together last year and was telling people that i

was in ukraine for the first anniversary, and they remind me, it's not the first anniversary, it was the ninth anniversary, and today is not the tenth anniversary, it is the tenth anniversary. your mind people that's because it is indicative of how this will go. russia to crimea and then continue to go for the rest of ukraine. if russia succeeds in taking ukraine, and most people believe it will not, but the west should understand that there is no reason russia with stop. >> exactly, do not be disillusioned by russia. russia is not at this point in time under putin's role it country like other countries. it is not a democracy, it is an autocracy. it is a terrorist regime which runs the largest country in europe, one of the largest in the world with a population of almost 150 million. and russia under such circumstances must be treated as the aggressor state. there must be responsibility of

state. to think about russia as a full fledged member of the international community and a rule abiding member of the international community would be simply an illusion, and to pursue that illusion would be a crime of [inaudible] leaders to take before their own people. so russia must be treated today as a international criminal. the russian establishment must be treated as international criminal. >> you know, we will talk about how ukraine would ask for things from the west in the first answer was no, tanks, no airplanes, no f-16s, no himars, and get everything ultimately would come. in the west we just agree earlier to do this, ukraine could be ahead of the game. are you concerned now about weariness from the world, about other things that have taken the news? about the dysfunction in the u.s. congress, which is its own thing, but it is affecting your ability to get the weaponry and

ammunition you need. are you concerned about how this could affect the outcome of this war? >> of course there are concerns and ukraine. we know those weapons, and we need them. now we need them to be on the ground and working for ukraine's victory for common victory of all the free world. not to have debates of whether and when and if the money will be released for the weapons, the weapon systems, armaments to be brought up. the situation in which ukraine is in, and which actually the rest of the world isn't as well, because ukraine is not a small country, but it is a rather big country with a very diverse economy. it is an agricultural superpower, and so when something happens in ukraine and the scale of the, war it affects the rest of the world. with the food supplies in the world and with all kinds of other supplies in the world. and so this is something to be aware of as well. and so all of this could've been avoided should ukraine have gotten the weapons it was asking for prior to february

2022. in 2021 for example, ukraine was aware, the intelligence sources of many countries, the u.s., uk we're showing that russia was preparing an attack. our ukrainian leadership, military leadership in particular was asking for weapons and offensive storms. we heard now at a political levels. at the parliament, level government level, military level, it was a firmino. now, again if ukraine had those weapons, if the west would've been backing ukraine back in 2021 before all of this was happening, whatever russia invaded? it is a question. it is a question to which we will unfortunately not know the answer because these are things that did not happen. instead, we will have losses of lives, we have the bombings of the civilian infrastructure, which are happening to this day. >> lesia vasylenko, we appreciate the time we have always taken topside and situation in ukraine and our thoughts are with you as we enter the third year of the

full scale invasion in ukraine. lesia vasylenko is a member of ukraine's parliament. after the break, we'll be joined here in studio by a journalist in ukraine analyst was broken the wall between reporting on a story and helping people. the great terrell jermaine store joins me. plus, primary in south carolina, and the polls are open. and decided being nikki haley's home state, it's donald trump's race lose. nbc's garrett haake is standing by at polling locations in columbia. and why the alabama supreme courts move against fertility treatment is both predictable in post roe america and, at the same time, even more dangerous than you may realize. angerous than you may realize. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪

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plus, get the new samsung galaxy s24 on us. joining me now for the war in ukraine, someone is living in kyiv two years ago as the russian invasion began, terrell jermaine star is independent journalist and a nonresident senior fellow at the center for international policies.

he's also the founder knows that the black diplomats podcast. terrell, good to see you. you and i have been covering this together here and ukraine in the last couple of years. you heard my conversation with lesia vasylenko. i want to bring to the american side of the state. had joe biden not sort of put humpty-dumpty, which is nato back on the wall again, because donald trump had sort of tried to undermine it, we would not be where we are today. america and nato in a number of other countries got together and answer the call. we seem to be the point where america may not be ready to carry its share of this war anymore largely because of republicans in congress who refused to pass the necessary aid. >> absolutely, so going back to biden, one of the problems with the analysis of whether not ukraine would hold some two years ago is that there was a lack of cultural competency in the intelligence gathering, what was going on. >> because we were told that they would fall fast. >> which if you are on the ground and you are falling ukrainian media around the country, you knew that that was

not going to happen. >> you are on our air saying this, that this place is not going to fall. >> no, no, no. over the weeks leading up to february 24th, i knew that and everyone knew that that was not going to happen. but here's the bottom line now, i was listening to lesia, who i met in kyiv, this comes down to white nationalism that is hijacking ukraine's national security, because for years, the racism and the xenophobia and the sexism that was targeted towards our communities is not being felt by ukraine. because there is some point where the ukrainians would never feel the brunt of the racism in the white supremacy, but ultimately, this is a foreign policy election. 2024 is all about foreign policy and the ways in which donald trump is engaging with people. it's by disengaging is through isolation. it's not about talking how america could better engage the world, but it's about how far apart from it can we possibly be. the biggest irony when you talk about the dearth of the

artillery rounds that ukraine desperately needs, and that -- they built right here in the united states. so this whole concept of america first is for anti racist of their actions. much of that aid is going to towns that desperately need the appointment, and ukraine -- >> rust belt, formerly rust belt industrial towns and pennsylvania and ohio where they foundries that you don't even know exist, and they're running three shifts now. we have a wartime economy without being in a war. >> absolutely. and so what is happening right now is that donald trump thinks that -- it comes down to this coalition of authoritarian fellowship around the world, and that is what he is doing. so when you see tucker carlson going to ukraine -- sorry, not going to ukraine, but going to russia, i look at tucker carlson as being the global comms director of white supremacy. so it all of these leaders do, whether it is putin, whether it is trump, weathers anyone else, or viktor orban, they had this trinity here where they have

the far-right, they have some form of religion that is connected to the church, and it's all connected to the state. and so tucker carlson is the comes person that is bringing all of these people together in the global perspective, because ultimately, when it comes down to is that there is a siege mentality amongst these leaders who feel like one thing that they can all unite around worldwide is their racism and their whiteness. and so in america, there has to be a response from the biden administration from democrats about what are they going to coalesce around. >> and ukraine at least, we've seen the biden administration to the right stuff. i recognize that is the handiwork by the, way that is the full shirt -- >> a [speaking in a global language] . i actually wore this in the lead into the war, and this wonderful designer in the viva who makes many of them, yeah. >> yeah, good to see you my friend, thank you for everything you've done. terrell jermaine starr is independent journalist and nonresident senior fellow at the center for international palaces. he is also the founder and host

of the black diplomats podcast. the primary day in south carolina, next we will go live to a polling place in south carolina to say things are shaping up. but first, we're following a developing story out of florida where the state is in the midst of a measles outbreak. at least seven cases have been confirmed across the state. health officials are urging caution, and they say that cases could grow significantly due to the state's urgent generals controversial guidance to that parents decide whether to quarantine they're infected children or let them keep going to school. late last night, michigan officials also confirmed the measles case. the cdc says they've been at least 35 cases of measles across 15 states so far in 2024. in 2024. honey... dayquil severe honey. powerful cold and flu symptom relief with a honey-licious taste. dayquil honey, the honey-licious, daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, power through your day, medicine. you always got your mind on the green. not you.

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pm eastern. this election is an open primary, which means the voters are not required to declare a party affiliation to participate. however, you can't vote today if you cast a ballot in the states democratic primary two weeks ago. joining me now from columbia, south carolina is my old friend nbc's garrett haake. garrett, good morning to you. what do you see down there, and i want to get some sense of whether donald trump's legal setbacks over the past few weeks have had any impact on anybody that you are talking to? >> but we've seen pretty slow and steady turnout at this polling place here in columbia, and a fairly good mix of supporters about nikki haley and donald trump as you'd expect and what has been kind of a battleground county in the past. interestingly enough, i have talked to several democrats voting for the first time in the republican primary for nikki haley. this sort of explained to me, they see this idea of stopping trump as more important than anything else they could do by voting for joe biden and the democratic primary. as for the legal issues, i

think what we're seeing in south carolina is a continuation of what we see around the country were, pre- trump supporters, no legal headline will push them off of their support. in fact, in many ways, it helps them dig and further. this is the conversation i had with a voter in charleston yesterday on this issue. >> how do you view those cases? are they legitimate? >> not at all. >> none of them? >> none of them. they're not even trying to hide the fact that they're not legitimate. the case in new york, for example over the weekend, the governor came out to other companies and said, you don't have to worry about as prosecuting you for what we prosecute donald trump for. this is nothing new. using the judicial system to push in agenda is nothing new. they just have a different victims now. so now, what a bottom if he is convicted? no, because again, i think he would probably be turned over

on appeal, but whatever happens, i would still love friendly get our country back to where it needs to be. >> i would, i don't argue with voters when they give me their planes on this thing, i think it's very instructive for folks to hear what the trump voters to think about these legal cases, although i think we're about to pivot from a period in which nothing hasn't mattered for trump supporters and a primary as we get into a general election in six or seven battleground states, all of which expected to be very close, where everything will matter on the margins with more independent voters less likely voters deciding whether they're going to cast a ballot at all. so that dynamic could shift as we start to change into the late spring and early summer. ali? >> garrett, great to be with you this morning. thank you for joining us this morning. garrett haake, he's in columbia south carolina. east coast mr. b.c. throughout the day for a special network of each of the south carolina primary. jen psaki and jonathan kaye part kick things off at four pm eastern. then at 6:30 pm eastern, rachel maddow and the team pick up the

announcers along with steve kornacki breaking down results at the big board. again, our special coverage begins today at four pm eastern only on msnbc. coming, up not trump's vp shortlist is the list of someone looking for loyalty and only loyalty, what is broader plans for staffing and carrying out a second administration are even more alarming. i will explain next on velshi. i will explain next on velshi. help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. everywhere but the seat. the seat is leather. alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything? what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. have you seen it, by the way? happy birthday, grandma! really? look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank.

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trump took the stage at a christian media convention on thursday and let it loose string of unsettling -- let loose a string of unsettling remarks, laying bare his intentions for a christian nationalist government if given another shot at the presidency. yolanda number of proposals, including restricting transgender rights, including banding gender-affirming surgery, because he referred to it as child mutilation. his rhetoric escalated further as he declared, quote, no one will be touching the cross of christ under the trump administration. in a bizarre comparison, trump also likened his legal troubles to the crucifixion of crisis, gesturing as if you are on across, he stated, i take all of these arrows for you. i am being indicted for you. trump on thursday echoed the blueprint along by project 25, which is a multi million dollar effort by trump allies and specifically in overhauling key government agencies in a

potential second term. the projects mandate states that freedom is defined by god, not met. the radical plan calls for defunding the department justice, dismantling the fbi and department of homeland security, and health and human services. it also aims to consolidate power by placing agencies like the federal communications commission under direct presidential control. imagine effect that will have on government control of media by a man who is already strongly suggested that he will pull immediate licenses and peoples to prosecute journalists. project 2025 also proposes pulling the federal trade commission under direct presidential control, -- companies that want the freedom to merge and avoid regulations that are designed to protect consumers and a fair market. for months, now project 2025 has also been vetting trump loyalists to replace career civil servants throughout the government, including maga zealot stephen miller and jeffrey clark, the letter of

whom is charged alongside donald trump in the georgia racketeering case. when it comes to his next running mate, axios reported in december that the vice presidential short list includes the likes of tucker carlson, marjorie taylor greene, and the failed arizona gubernatorial candidate kari lake. a chilling sign that loyalty is being priced above all else. this week, trump himself also trained and with a few names of republicans on his vp shortlist, all people whom will likely demonstrate fealty to him if selected. for more on this, i'm joined by ruth ben-ghiat, a expert on authoritarian-ism and a professor of history at new york university. she's the author of lucid newsletter which follows oppressive moxie into the important book, strongmen, mussolini to the present. roof, it is good to see you. i don't know if you should send a flowers or thank you to the heritage foundation, because they have put meat on the books of something that you have been talking about for a long time. they have actually got a blueprint for how america goes

from being a mirror to chronic democracy into something entirely different, and they mean it. i mean, this is a real thing. this project 2025, the people who are unsure about who they want to vote for next time around, it is a real plan. >> oh yes it is, and it is very well thought out, and that involves tens of thousands of people. so the essence of authoritarianism is removing restraints on the leader and making him immune from prosecution by domestic getting government. and so some of what project 2025 proposes, like abolishing the doj and the fbi, is designed to that and, to make it impossible to prosecute trump and allow him to commit crimes with impunity. but there is a bigger point here, because this is huge. they want to abolish lots of government agencies. the department of education, health and human services, and so the scale of this leads me

to think about the way that authoritarian regimes actually operate, which is if you get rid of a lot of government and then you have your smaller army of loyalists, it allows the leader in his cronies and his inner circle in his family are often in there. there is talk of jared kushner being secretary of state. they are the ones, a small number of people, who actually running government, and they take away the rights of millions, and that is like a band of cronies, and that is the way that authoritarian states actually operate. >> i'm glad you just spelled that out, because i left out of the introduction the discussion about the department of education and the department of commerce. i'm not sure everybody understands. i don't feel like a interact much with these departments. why does it matter whether trump would have them or not have them, or project 45 we have them or not have them? i want to really just get into that with you for a second. the idea being that these

agencies that in theory already populated by student approved people who are deemed to have the mayor to run them, now there will either be eliminated or the president in the executive branch will make decisions that were otherwise being made by experts. >> well, also if you're eliminating whole departments, you're also eliminating those cabinet positions. so you end up with what i described and strongman, which is -- of governance that allows abandoned many places like putin's russia, which is a kleptocracy, a band of criminals supported by oligarchs. and so there are very big ties inside and outside of government. and they run things, and in the party institutionalize and circulates the talking points, and the party is also becoming a haven for corrupt people. you need corrupt people to come into power to sustain and autocracy. parliament becomes a rubber stamp, an immediate

domesticated, and so oftentimes people talk about or bonds hungry as the model, and they're about 85% in media is under either -- friends of orban, as they are known. >> it's worth studying the business with viktor orban because he has called for a alliance between christian nationalists in the united states and europe, and this is also a part of project 2025. i will have you back to talk about that. as always, thank you ruth. ruth ben-ghiat is a professor of history it in my, you author of the lucid newsletter and author of the book strongman, from mussolini to the president. coming, up how the u.s. supreme court is overturning of roe v. wade helped enable the alabama supreme court ruled it frozen embryos aren't legally children. -- fertility treatment in chaos and leading republicans scrambling to explain their own positions on fetal personhood. . , night and day.

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many americans from both sides of the political, from both sides of the abortion debate, and from all sorts of different walks of life were shocked this week when the alabama supreme court ruled frozen embryos to be legally children, imperiling in vitro fertilization, or ivf treatments fertility commitments are turned into chaos and causing heartbreak for alabamians starting to grow or start their families.

but this ruling is both a standard, predictable development for post roe america and much worse than you probably even realize at the same time. first, here's what you need to know about the case. it started with a lawsuit over the mishandling and accidental destruction of frozen embryos from a alabama fertility clinic. freezing embryos for later use is common in ivf, which requires a invasive complicate regiment of hormone treatments and equitable from the patient. to maximize the chances of success and minimize the physical pain for the patient, it is standard practice to fertilize multiple eggs. this is done outside of the patients body in a lab. but not all of the fertilized eggs will become viable embryos, and even among the embryos that do develop normally, in our suitable to transfer to the patients uterus, not all will implant successfully and lead to viable pregnancies and live births. in fact, this excess rate for

an ivf transfer can be anywhere between ten to 50% depending on the patients age and other factors. so if a transfer fails, it is safer and easier for the patient if they don't have to start all over again with hormone treatments and egg retrieval. now there have been plenty of other lawsuits over alleged mishandling or destruction of frozen embryos by fertility clinics or storage facilities, but never before now as a court of law used a lawsuit like this to rule that frozen embryos are legally human children. the majority opinion says that quote, the wrongful death of a minor act applies to all unborn children, regardless of their location, including unborn children who are located outside of a biological uterus at the time that they are killed. that assertion is so radical and brings us so many legal

questions about fertility treatments that many ivf providers in the state of alabama have halted the treatment altogether for fear of legal repercussions. one shipping company that specializes in transporting cryogenic we frozen embryos has paused its service to the state. now to be clear, what underlies the thinking behind this ruling is a concept known as fetal personhood, a long time project of the antiabortion movement, which has made any attempts to codify into law that life begins at conception, which would give a fertilized egg the legal rights of the person. abortion rights advocates have long warned that such laws would have implications far beyond abortion. but before roe v. wade was overturned, none of these fetal personhood bills had any real chance of becoming a law. now though, roe is gone, and here we are. the majority opinion alabama repeatedly cites the u.s. supreme court's assertion in overturning roe v. wade that

the unborn are living persons, aka, fetal personhood, and alabama conservatives are not the only one to take note of that language. since 2022, at least 14 states of implemented or at least introduce laws to establish some kind of fetal personhood. this is post roe america. roe subway's tuna is off the hook! it's 100 percent wild-caught. this tuna is fishing for a compliment and i'm taking the bait. alright, i'm all punned out. i'm o-fish-ally finished.

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quote, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy god, who views the destruction of his image as an affront to himself. even before birth, all human beings bear the image of god, in a lives cannot be destroyed without a facing his glory, end quote. so much for the separation of church and state. when i just read you is not the law of the land and alabama. those words from the chief justice of the supreme court were part of a ruling this week that in part of the legal rights personhood upon frozen embryos. joining us talk about this alarming development is robin marti, who is in the thick of it in alabama as executive director of the west alabama women center. she's author of the new book,

the new book a handbook for a post roe america. also joining us michelle goodwin, a profession of constitutional law and global health policy at georgetown law, and the award winning author of the book, policing the womb, invisible women in the criminalization of motherhood. good morning to both of you. let me start with you robin, because you and i have been talking about this literally since the day row fell, and that came to alabama and met with hughes and others who work and you sort of warned me then, it doesn't end here. it is not this benign thing where we are just going to give it to the states to decide. alabama led the way on a draconian stuff and you told me then that they will come for contraceptives, i don't even know that they were going to come to ivf because i couldn't even get my head around it. you did warn that there is no into the slippery slope. >> there was, not and sunday we're also going to talk when it's about nice things, but it's exactly what we have been

warning everyone about, and now we are seeing it in its glory. i need to make it clear that what is going on here is that we had a constitutional amendment that was put on the state constitution and voted on by the people that was called the sanctity of last amendment in 2018, and that quote that you just read was essentially what the chief justices said -- all alabamians who voted on that constitutional amendment agreed to, and it's easy to say, that was not what we thought was on that ballot, but now that is the language in the law that we are subject to. >> michelle, let's talk about the quote that i just read. it sounds like something from game of thrones are actually the bible, but this is not what we thought that laws are supposed to look like. the alabama chief justices in currents invokes the quote, wrath of the holy god, and biblical interpretation of the quote, think to the of life.

people ask me, is there not a separation of church and state here, and how come it doesn't apply to this particular case? this is separate and apart from whether or not you favorites or not. this is something entirely different. >> well it's opportunistic jurisprudence. it is selective jurisprudence that seeks to aim at particular individuals. we know that so much of this has been anti women, anti people, the capacity for pregnancy. it certainly is inconsistent with textualism, originalism. the framers, the founders that conservative seek to turn to work quite opposed of there being religious influence in matters of law and statehood. it was something that they fled from, that they understood the dangers of religious theocracy embedding its way into a democracy, and so they were very clear about separating church and state. and we had hundreds of years

now of jurisprudence from the supreme court and lower courts that made that very clear. but in this effort to weaponize matters of reproduction, which is included in weaponizing religion within the context of the constitution, this is not what we are seeing. has become a pathway into gateway in order to embed particular religious views and to american law. let's be clear that this is not just all religion. this is very much a christian nationalism, which has been convicted, as we can see through history, to white supremacy as well, and that is undeniable. that is factual, that is not just professor goodwin making that up. we know this through empirical research. >> robin, since the decision came down, there's been a significant backlash and response from actually both sides of the political aisle. there are some conservatives, particularly the people who don't favorable shun writes, they're not even sure what this is about. just this past week, the republican senator, state senator tim nelson suggested

that he would introduce a bill to clarify this ruling, and democrats in the state introduce legislation stating that a fertilized human egg existing outside of a human body is not a person. what is going on from a legislative framework and alabama. and i ask you this for context, because for the rest of us who don't live in alabama, you have always warned, watch alabama closely, because what happens here could becoming twisty near you. >> right, so what we're seeing right now is that republicans are scrambling, and to make it very clear to people outside the state, our state houses almost highly republican, our government is almost entirely republican, and so watching them try to handle where they can go from here has been really interesting. there is not a legislative fix. in my opinion, they are backed into a corner because at any point they put in an exception, if they say okay, person who does not actually work when it is outside of the womb, or if

they say it does not work until a certain point in the presidency, the entirety of the personhood legal argument falls apart. it can only work if personhood includes everything from the moment of conception regardless of how it is conceived, regardless of where that embryo or egg is at, and so there is no point at which they can pull this away. and that is the supreme court ruling. the supreme court ruling said that there isn't a legislative way to look at this because, at this point, the courts are always bringing to favor the rights of the unborn, and that isn't any legal circumstance, including if it conflicts with the federal constitution, and that is what i really need people to understand. we are the point now where we have already seen the people have been having [inaudible] without knowing that that is happening. we have had all of the women who are indefinitely detained in -- county because they were pregnant. these are all already strikes against the federal

constitution, and now we have our own lawsuit where we were told that we can't help people leave the state to get legal abortion. they have put us against the federal constitution and that is what this ruling is about. >> and i just want people to be clear when you say that we can't help people leave the state, that is very broadly interpreted, including helping people get information about leaving the state. there's much more for us to discuss. state. there's much more for us to discuss. much more for us to discuss. >> and if i could add really, really quickly, the attorney general just recently said he is going to use discretion to not prosecute anybody involved in i.d. the. fs1 personhood. it's like one person decide who is and who is not subject to the law. this is the same ag that told us we were absolutely be prosecuted if we try to give people information about abortion. >>nf your rights. one day, we will talk about nice things. not this. day one day, we will talk about nice things. thank you w, michelle goodwin

is a professor of global health policy at georgetown law, the author of the important book, policing the womb, robin marti operations director for the west ecalabama winston center and author of the new handbook for a post roe america. coming up another hour of velshi, polls are open in south carolina as republicans primary, any minute now, republican presidential candidate nikki haley is set to cast her own vote in her home state. she is polling far behind donald trump, but with the state being an open primary, meaning, not just republicans are voting, i suppose anything code happened. we'll have a live report, coming up. plus, ukraine is entering the third year of its defense against a full scale russian invasion. where the fighting stance, or attending, and how the future of u.s. aid could change the course of the war for better or for worse. another hour of velshi begins right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning. it is saturday, february the 24th i'm.