did your jewish students tell me that they are changing their names in their uber profiles, because they're afraid of the drivers understanding that they are jews. or they are hiding their jewish stars around their neck, or they're -- thinking about this. in an era where we celebrate diversity, jews are hiding in the closet. they are retreating into the shadows. that is unacceptable by any standard. it's not just antisemitic, it's anti-american, to deny and to denigrate people based on their ethnicity or faith. >> that does it for the sunday edition of morning joe: weekend.

policy council joins the table. the former sorry i a director john brennan -- impeachment efforts unravel before their eyes. grab your coffee, settle in, welcome to the weekend. the 2024 gop presidential primary is proving this is donald trump's republican party and, none of this is normal. the twice impeached four times indicted ex president won south carolina last night by 20

points. nikki haley has made clear she plans to stay in the race at least through super tuesday. no matter how much trump would like her gone. >> i said earlier this week is that no matter what happens in south carolina, i would continue to run for president. in the next ten days, another 21 states and territories will speak. they have the right to a real choice. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard live from columbia, south carolina. >> vaughn, you know donald trump won big in nikki haley's home state last night. what is next for her? she stayed in south carolina last night, she says she's fighting on, what does her next couple t days look like, and juxtapose that with donald trump's next atcouple of days. everyone seems to be focused on michigan, but donald trump a little bit more the general election. >> right, good morning guys.

nikki haley is on route to michigan to hold her first campaign event, and o she said that gnshe intends to campaign across the super tuesday states ahead of march 5th. there's more than a dozen of them that . will be voting, ando if you look between now and march 19th, that day in which donald trump could clinch the nomination with enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. 24 states are already early voting or voting by mail. for nikki haley, it's notable, it's stark. she's not necessarily declaring she's going to . win the nomination, but her tenure there last night saying she would not e kiss the ring. would not succumb to the pressures of donald trump, unlike other republicans who stand alongside him now in spite, she said, the way in which they loath him behind the scenes. in which the way they talk about him privately. this calls and -- nikki haley's goal. number one, issue trying to slow roll the process in which the trump campaign is able to effectively merge with the rnc and take over its operation? if she's simply trying to run

the course and actually give republican voters around the the opportunity to engage in this republican primary process. open to joining the no labels ticket, the organization that is qualified for more than a dozen ballots -- bipartisan unit and took it forward. no arlabels has not said that they would not want nikki haley on the anticket, even though sh is said that she is not interested. it leaves a lot of questions open after that speech last night. and as for donald trump, it's notable last night she didn't mention nikki haley's name once. the campaign wants him to focusu on the general election and joe biden and anthe democrats ahead here. but for the likes of donald trump there's also the reality that he's got to go back and win over the portion of those independent voters that exit poland last night showed that nikki haley is dominating among. she handily lost to donald trump, but you same time made

her case last night that the 40% of south carolina voters, then included 22% of them identified as independents that they didn't want s donald trump so for him there's a lot of work fin these weeks ahead to likely win this nomination, but at the same time an opportunity to try to cut into that support that nikki haley is receiving, particularly from moderate voters who are taking part in this process. >> vaughn, let's drill down a little bit on authat, on that point where on the one hand nikki is getting her numbers from people who aren't republicans. they're not republican base voters, anand i'm sorry the las time e i checked that's how you win the republican nomination. so narratively in one sense yeah it's great to show a number, 40%, but when you peel back that number there is no movement within the republican l party towards nikki haley, no matter how rdyou spin it. that's the reality. is the trump team looking to play that angle up going into michigan, which is a hot mess on its own, but still has the

ability for democrats and independents to play a role in the michigan primary, which sets up what happened on super tuesday, where again you have a number of states like texas and others that have if not open, quasi-open primaries -- plane as well. >> right. do you point exactly, michael, i think you're right here. this is a process head that's not gonna benefit s nikki haley multiple states up close primaries, which means independents and democrats can't come and vote in that primary. in the likes of california you also have the situation the candidate receives more than 50% of e supports they win, all the delegates, so the math th becomes very difficult. you say this is a republican primary and overwhelmingly republicans want donald trump to lead the party. and yet that is where nikki haley she made the decision to o

come into this race, guys, despite republican voters who ie talked to here in the state of south carolina 13 months ago telling me that they didn't want their former governor in this race, and yet she decided to ndjump in, and republican voters have made it definitively clear that donald trump's their leguy, but when y look eiat those independent voters this is where donald trump needs to win over a segment of them because you look from 2016 to 2020 he was able to draw anywhere from 15 to 25% in the major battleground states of independents compared to his performance against, or i should say he lost 15 to 25% of it independents compared to his 2016 performance against nikki haley. and so that is where, when you are y.looking at not only the numbers but also the reality that nikki haley, according to democrats is helping them, a key messenger, someone who calls herself a tea party governor who is saying donald

trump can't be president, that's quite the step -- to those moderate voters when they're looking at the option of donald trump or okjoe biden ahead. >> all right, nbc's -- good to see you out there. joining us now is -- former chair of the michigan republican party. saul, welcome to the table. i tywant to pick up on the poin i raised with vaughn about the state of the michigan party. and with the primary next week they've got a primary on tuesday where about 16 delegates -- and then on saturday ayou've got a bifurcated convention between the current chairman who's been recognized by the rnc, and browser the orchestra, and the former chairman who was ousted, karamo. as presidential candidates going into michigan this week, what should they be thinking and what's the state of play there? >> obviously it's very challenging >>on many fronts bu

the reality is, like you said the open primary was a deal that was cut with the rnc when the democrats move the primary up counter in order to stick it to the republicans in the legislature, the way they broke it up was that only a third of the delegates will be picked on that primary so nikki haley will have a chance to get some of the delegates but the odds are there won't bbe very many any at all on tuesday, and then the following on saturday i would expect she doesn't get a single delegate, based on the way that it's played out. i think what you'll have is even with and bassett are host route the party is basically rallying behind him, it's kind of the fringe folks who are staying out there and disagreeing, the party has decided, there's a court talking about how they could use it, i'm sure the court will rule in favor suthe party, but it's kind of what the roles, so that's the rnc's role as an arbitrator. i think trump is going to do very well in michigan, and that will probably put him in good

stead for super tuesday. >> i was going to say, simone is already growing over here. >> i mean, it's -- >> it is what it is. >> it is what it is. that's literally what i was going alto say. it is what it is. we were on last night very late and there were lots of hypotheses about why nikki haley is staying in this race and it was brendan buck who said you know i don't think there's anything more than she wants to be hiin the race, and she does believe the people should be able to vote for whoever they want to vote for. and so there's no big huge strategy, you've got governor gavin newsom who is a guest on meet the press this morning, he did an interview on saturday and he basically called nikki haley one of the best surrogates for democrats because she is up there essentially needling donald trump. what's your theory? >> i think that's right, and i think it's problematic for her depending on what she's looking at her future as, if you want

to be in the no labels to get she's probably doing the right thing. you want to set herself up for 2028, it's going to be very difficult for her. remember, we're lacking our r national committee people, the rnc is getting elected, we serve convention to convention. we're gonna be electing a whole group e of trump loyalists who will be running an r seat for the next four years so even the post-trump nominee is going to have to work through a pretty trumpian party to see where the future of the party is going to go. so to kind of be that anti trump candidate i don't think puts you in a very good stead with n regards to being the future nominee or at least having a shot at its. >> it's interesting, there is now at least a little resistance coming stto this ide of andonald trump fully controlling the rnc, draft resolution, the first resolution from henry barbara longtime member of mississippi to -- fundraising with his campaign nduntil he winds enoug delegates to be the parties presumptive nominee, it would slow the party's embrace of trump as a nominee, i just have

to think if you're one of what i think is 18 republicans who are in a district that joe biden won, you have to be a little bit nervous about the fact that the party committee would be controlled by donald trump and that many of the funds of that committee, which are meant in part to help down ballot races, would instead be used to pay donald trump's legal bills. >> this is going to be a big problem for republicans. as we look forward, if you go back to 2016 when trump first ran we had eight or nine republicans in the race, only three rnc members endorse trump in the primary election. today 140 plus of the hundred 68 have been elected under his two tillage. we have a very trumpian party in that regard, and if they go in and have that lower trump as the co-chair are, that lady is a loyalist coming out of the president -- you're gonna have a very trump oriented party and i think during the normal cycle of an election regardless of whether it's biden controlling the democratic committee or

trump controlling cthe republican committee, that's normal. the issue becomes the day after. what happens. for all practical purposes he is the presumptive nominee, so what i think henry's doing is -- principled standpoint. maybe he'll make some donors feel better because i do think one of the problems with us not being able to raise money is there's a lot of republican donors who are saying i'm not in this just to pay for trump's legal bills. we do have to worry about down- ticket, we have a chance of picking up ckthe united senate, republicans want to hold on to house of representatives. >> the map should be great for us if we can afford it. >> if we can afford it. >> let's bring out the length a little bit because the interesting thing is there is a way in which an addition to what henry barber is doing, in which the convention itself can be opened up, which a number of members are starting to talk about, talk to us a little bit about k the strategy which i support by the way, i probably should say now because -- michael steele likes it.

i think the idea of opening up p the convention is a real possibility that some folks are thinking about. >> if you look historically, the republican party's convention has normally been the delegates have been unbound. which basically means even if they're committed to a specific candidate on the day of the convention, on the convention floor theoretically someone could nominate an alternative candidate, and that candidate could be nominated, donald trump in the last convention his people basically closed that option by bounding delicate by rule. what happens on the first day of the convention, the party accepts its rules, so they could basically go back to the old rules that stood since ronald reagan. the last guy to do it before trump i'm pretty sure was was forward, to stop reagan in 1976. we have a tradition of having unbound delegates at the convention, so if there were some circumstances that would make trump not an appealing candidate, even though the delegates would be trump committed delegates, if they're

on bound you could have someone come in and run. i think that's where potentially a white knight on a whitehorse, a glenn youngkin as an example to come in and be the surprise candidate but that's only if he gets convicted or there's a health issue or something happens that would make him agree to that he's not all fine. >> and the people in the rules committee wants to play ball anyway. >> and the majority of the convention -- >> this is why we love former chair people of the political parties, they can just tell us all the things. saul, thank you very much for your time. folks, before we go to break a couple updates for you on some major international stories that we have been following. it israel-hamas war and israeli official is telling msnbc news that there has been quote, some progress in paris, where u.s. qatari egyptian negotiators gy have -- cease-fire talks. the official noted that it's

too early to tell if the talks will result in an actual breakthrough. meanwhile the united states and british military's conducted more strikes against houthi rebels in yemen. undergone officials tell in msnbc news that the strikes are part of the ongoing effort to protect she's ships in the red sea in the gulf of aden. when we come back folks, north carolina's democratic governor roy cooper will join the table. and later, john brennan is here and we have to talk about the lie weat the heart of republica failed impeachment efforts. you're watching the weekend. th. for more value. more reliability. and more on-time deliveries. the united states postal service built for how you business.

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and donald trump's republican party, loyalty is not a two-way street. listen to how the crowd greeted south carolina senator lindsey graham at trump's victory rally just last night in columbia. >> when i'm in trouble in the left to call up lindsey graham and he straightens it out so fast. and i'll tell you, no no, remember -- i love him, he's a good man. come up here, lindsey.

come here. >> joining us now, democratic common governor roy cooper from north carolina. i was fixated by that. >> are they going like that in north carolina, governor? >> at a mega rally, they certainly went. >> governor, welcome. on my side of the aisle that's what we've got and we're trying to figure out with nikki haley in all of that how that's going to play out. on the democratic side you and i were talking a little bit before about how the biden administration has really provided states with good glide path that are impacting the economy, the health care system, et cetera. talk a little bit about how you see the differences between the two parties setting up for the national narrative around public policy. because we have not really have a public policy debate yet in

this country, and i think that's an advantage for joe biden, quite honestly. what is your take on how you're seeing things set up right now for president biden versus president trump, in terms of how the states governors are looking at -- >> we're all here this weekend, republican and democratic governors. and what we have is a generational investment for roads and bridges and public transportation, and a high- speed internet, so we are making working to make sure it gets implemented. but you see from last night that donald trump has an iron grip on this republican party and there is going to be a stark choice in november. this is going to be a biden trump rematch and i don't think a lot of people wrap their minds around that, but the choice is going to be do you want a president who wakes up every morning thinking about the american people, or do you want a president who wakes up every morning thinking about himself and that is going to be

the stark choice. joe biden's experienced, he did more his first two years than most presidents can hope to do in two terms. almost 15 million -- in the first two years. small more small businesses than ever, fighting prescription drug costs, we're seeing inflation coming down now, and what we need to do as democrats is to let the american people know about these things make sure that they understand why they're high-speed internet is going to get connected, why the water system in rural sampson county north carolina in a community that had been forgotten now people with tears running down their cheeks are finally going to get clean water and not have to boil it. how almost 6000 people in north carolina are going to get health care now because we've expanded medicaid in north carolina and got a republican legislature to do it. those are the things that are

so exciting that are going to matter to everyday people, and i don't think everyday people are talking about what we're talking about. they're not talking about the politics of this, and they aren't really aware of it, i don't think many of them are. >> you know better than anyone that the biden reelection campaign has set their sights on north carolina, they believe that it is winnable for them, and with good reason. you are part of that reason. what is the investment that is going to be have to be made in north carolina to actually deliver a democratic victory for don't joe biden. >> we can have to meet people where they are, we're going to have to listen to them, joe biden this was his closest loss in 2020, 1.3% in a year that was very good for republicans in north carolina he close the gap from hillary clinton's loss which was 3.6% in 2016, so we're a fast growing state bloom county is getting -- and we're going to have some issues

that are going to rally the troops. women's reproductive freedom is on the ballots in north carolina in november. it's on the ballot across the country, obviously but republicans with a one vote supermajority were able to override my veto to put in a 12- week abortion ban in north carolina, and people are upset about that. the republicans in north carolina have been able to use technologically diabolical gerrymandering to draw districts that don't reflect north carolina, who we are as north carolinians. we are a 50/50 state, so that's going to be an issue that's going to be on the ballot this time, we are going to be working to elect a governor, we're gonna be work make sure that we break that super majority in the legislature again, and all that i think is going to converge we're gonna work with the biden campaign to win this state for joe biden. >> people talk a lot about obviously they talk a lot about

2024, the context of the presidential, but yes north carolina and ten other states will be choosing governors. the state legislature, americas policies is made in the state legislatures, what is your biggest hope for the election in north carolina, and what is your biggest concern? because return limit is up, but -- >> let me say i am working on the races as if i were on the ballot, because we have to continue to progress that we made in north carolina. my hope is that we may win the state for joe biden, because i think the presidential election is going to go to north carolina. that we elect josh stein, who is apparently our attorney general, who is running against independent lieutenant governor. that we -- hold our own in congress, we have an important supreme court race, i appointed ellison ridge the state supreme court. she is on the ballot.

my fear is that people may just decide to stay home, that they get frustrated that people have wrap their mind around the fact that this is gonna be biden trump rematch, so i'm concerned about complacency, and when our country is on the brink here, when the world is on fire, we have a president who has the foreign policy experience to deal with these issues, we have to let people know what's on the line here what a stark choice we have here between donald trump and joe biden. >> governor, you're gonna stick around because we have more questions we want to dig into some of the issues you mentioned reproductive rights and reproductive freedom, and i think that's gonna be something that is affecting folks across the country so stay with us because north carolina is at the center of the fight for voting rights and for

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one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. north carolina governor roy cooper is back with us. of, we mentioned as we are coming out of the last segment, voting rights is going to be a topic of conversation, particularly in north carolina. the house speaker in north carolina says the upcoming section will include election integrity legislation. it could -- early vote periods, north carolina is a battleground. then you also had what is very frustrating in north carolina on the minds of voters, the abortion ban. the 12-week abortion ban, the overriding of your veto, you have the ivf decision in alabama this week from the

alabama supreme court. how are you all thinking about organizing around this, what is the conversation on the ground in north carolina and are you concerned about what the legislature could do? >> let's be clear, this is a terrified republican leadership to make it harder to vote, they don't think they're going to vote for them. they've done the research, they know that a lot of people tend to vote democrat like to vote early, they like to vote by mail, so they are making it harder to do that and they disguise it by using things like election security and election integrity. north carolina has had very secure elections that have reflected the will of the people. i won at the same time donald trump won north carolina, twice. and we've seen a lot of bipartisan results, so this is only about making it harder for people to exercise their constitutional right.

make no mistake about it. >> so you have voter suppression masquerading as election integrity, and at the same time these things are little bit more -- the importance of who appoint officials to the board of elections, which is a big contentious issue in north carolina. >> i wrote an op-ed -- and you guys can side out there, but in north carolina for decades the governor has had the authority to appoint the board of elections upon recommendations put two major parties. our elections have run well under both republican and democratic governors. this republican legislative leadership is trying to take over the running of the state board of elections. each time they tried to court said beat them down, it's unconstitutional, they tried a constitutional amendment on the ballots, the people voted it down by big margins. just think about what they want to do, they want to put things in chaos, they want some

decisions to be flipped back to them. and when you think about what happened in 2020, if there's a close race in north carolina, if they're able to get this, then potentially a presidential election could flip back to a super majority republican legislature to make a decision on it. these are very dangerous things playing with our democracy, trying to get that power advantage. i've been able to work with them on a lot of issues, economic development, medicaid expansion, clean energy, but on these issues we have to stand firm and make sure that we're fighting them at the courts and at the ballot box. >> we'll quickly, if you have a super majority, if joe biden wins, didn't pay -- his victory? >> it's questionable. with this leadership in the state legislature i think that's questionable. it depends on what happens but they are trying to gain the authority to be able to do

that. with the way they've tried to reshape this board of elections in north carolina. >> feeding into that you've got your lieutenant governor mark robinson running for governor. he's at cpac the last few days and was on stage noting throughout a couple of minutes the incredible economic turnaround in the great state of north carolina, and promoting that, but then he said this. >> the left is wrong. they are wrong on every topic, on every issue. they don't have a political leg to stand on, they don't have a social leg to stand on, they don't have a spiritual leg to stand on, they have nothing to stand on because they do nothing right. in every state the running, they're running it straight into the ground. >> we've got a laugh.

>> it's absurd. >> it's sunday morning. >> the attorney general is running in this election for governor to fill your seats, what are the dynamics you clearly have very different visions of north carolina that the voters very much like nationally, we're going to have very different visions of america by presidential candidates. the same is going to play out in your state. how do you see, i'm not asking you to handicap the race, but how do you see north carolinians responding to something like this, and at the same time saying that oh we have a great economy but the governor did nothing right. >> first, let's make it clear, the lieutenant governor is independently elected. in north carolina any tends to forget that i've been governor over the last seven years and when i beat the republican incumbent in north carolina we had just gone through the bathroom bill, people were believing north carolina.

we've got it repealed, now we've been the number one state in the country for business the last two years because we've been showing north carolina really is we value all people, we value our d.a.r.t. diversity. the lieutenant governor is running for governor on platform of men should lead, not women. that all abortion should be banned. no exceptions. he's even said that his assault rifle is to shoot government officials if they get too big for their bridges. he has called lgbtq+ people fill if, he is an extreme culture warrior and north carolinians don't want that on contrast. the democratic nominee will be attorney general josh stein, with whom i worked for years. he stood up for consumers against big corporations, he values the right to choose, he supports public education, so this will be the most important

governor race in the country and i'm going to work hard to see that we win this because if we had this republican legislature and a republican governor that will rubberstamp everything they do, we will go backward and we cannot afford that in north carolina. >> governor roy cooper, it's a real pleasure having you here at the table with us, we appreciate it. >> i'll be back, guys. >> oh absolutely, left there's a lot to talk about. after the break, we're in a legal fight over ivf goes next. we'll discuss with michele goodwin and mark joseph stern. you're watching the weekend. w. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. fair, freckled, or melanated. we are appreciated. ultra hydrated. glazed and glowing. confidence overflowing. vaseline lotions 90% more moisture for my one-of-a-kind skin. and there's no other skin i want to be in.

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- was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. my mother used to always say that actions speak louder than words, and several house republicans have said in recent days that they oppose the alabama supreme court ruling, the one that embryos have the same rights as living children,

but just last year 125 roswell iken's signed on to legislation that's known at the life at conception bill. that bill contains language that echoes the ivf ruling. the cosponsors include nearly a dozen republicans running for reelection in competitive does congressional districts. look at their faces. we're going to talk a little bit more about this with some experts. -- michele goodwin, and mark joseph stern, who is a senior staff writer at slate and one of my favorite court watchers at the supreme court. >> professor goodwin, you anticipated this about a decade ago? >> i did, because between 2010 and 2013 there were more antiabortion antique around reception laws that were proposed and enacted in the then that 30 years prior combined. at the time people were asleep, sleepwalking with regard to all of this. i was listening to what lawmakers were saying as they were promoting things that would ultimately get us to this

point. for example, embryo adoption bills. which seems fine, cryo preserved embryos that couples no longer need that they could be adopted by other cop pulls, but behind it were lawmakers saying in this will grant those embryos constitutional rights that will be on par with women. so their constitutional rights will meet the constitutional rights of women, and may in fact trump the constitutional rights of women. >> how do we see this narrative playing out? i want to book a call about a guide -- of california. she is someone who, no relation by the way, no easy on the end so -- it matters. she is someone who has been out there saying, quote, as someone who's struggle to get pregnant i believe a life is a gift. ivf has allowed me, as so many others, to start my family.

i believe there's nothing more pro-life than alpine families have children, and i do not support federal restrictions on ivf. at the same time she supports the life at conception bill. how do they reconcile -- i'm not asking you to answer for them, but in terms the narrative publicly, what should we take from that position? how do you see those two competing interests coming together? >> i think what we've seen is an escalation of a movement that has become tethered to their own de-principles. for example if you think about antiabortion as being pro natalist itself, the people should have babies, that that's important for our country, or for certain populations of our country, what you see in the south carolina ruling is that it's now become untethered from that. now where if embryos -- >> alabama, excuse me, thank you. >> then if embryos have -- by

the state then of course that makes it very vulnerable for couples that might want to use these technologies, and this is where i think there is a pothole, or speed bump that they have now crossed because there are many republicans who have use these technologies about 20% of american couples are infertile to begin with, and then there are any number of reasons why couples want to use assistant reproductive technologies including lgbtq couples. many couples now use these technologies, and i'm not sure they're -- outraged by this alabama decision, and what might fall, flow from it in other states to. >> you know, mark, i mean four years elected officials will tell you that republican -- we did not run on jailing women, criminalizing doctors, criminalizing or banning ivf, but with the overturning of roe v. wade, with the dobbs decision, that's exactly what

now is happening. michelle, the professor predicted this years ago and did the justices tell us what was going to happen with the supreme court? a majority opinion? >> absolutely. the three dissenters in dobbs actually specifically called out ivf as a procedure that was clearly imperiled by the majority opinion allowing states to ban abortion. and the reason it's so obvious, ivf involves the destruction of some unused embryos it can't work in less clinics and patients have a right to say we are disposing of these embryos that we no longer want or need. and yet the decision to overturn roe allowed states to begin defining life not just at what they call conception but at fertilization. that's what's so permissions about the federal bill, that congress woman still

cosponsored. it defines life at fertilization and extends for legal equality, quote unquote, to fertilized embryos with the very obvious intends to outlaw or severely restrict ivf. i think that those representatives must have known what they were doing because there have been movements for personhood amendments all around the country, including alabama. this decision actually spurs -- to the constitution, that was written by antiabortion activists to encompass not only abortion but also ivf, and even some forms of contraception that they called abortifacients. i'll just know that there is a senate version of this bill that we're talking about that had a carve out for ivf that said we're not going to allow this legislation to be used to restrict ivf. the house bill did not have that carve out, the house knew what it was doing and so for this congresswoman to come in and now say i would never

support registration to support restrict ivf, that is exactly what she did. if this bill ever passed, and has more than 100 republican cosponsors, it would mean that every state policy would suddenly mirror the policy of alabama today, and ivf patients around the country would suddenly find their access to care cut off, and their ability to build a family abolished. >> sometimes i think, michelle, the people hear these stories and i think that's so tragic for families in alabama. it is bigger than alabama. amanda zurawski who came to national prominence, she was denied an abortion in texas, she nearly died. she has frozen embryos in texas that she is now thinking of how having to ship out a state to protect them should texas take up a seeing similar approach as alabama. here you have someone who is impacted not once but twice. >> that's right. post jobs there's been legal chaos, and to mark's point, if you look at the state of alabama and that supreme court this is not the first time,

they're actually building on a pre-dobbs precedent where in a court ruling involving a law that had nothing to do with women, it was a child endangerment law, but prosecutors were weaponizing it against women. it was a law intended to actually go after men who are turning their homes into the math, labs and these met labs blowing up are catching fire, and there was a real concern that children living in those families, in those homes, could be harmed. what prosecutors did rather than going after those men decided that they would go after pregnant women who would tell their doctors about their social medical history when a doctor asked do you drink wine, how many classes a week, have used an illicit drug, to use prescription medication, and prosecutors sought to get that information in alabama from doctors for nurses and use it against those patients. there is one of the challenge this because she said this is private information that i'm sharing with my doctors, i'm going for prenatal care, i want to have this child. the alabama supreme court ruled that there was no difference between a child and a fetus,

and no difference between a child and a non viable fetus. this was pre-dobbs. but to your point, yes this is a kind of wreckage that we may see across myriad states because often these clinics work in different states, and already in alabama you have a university saying we are going to suspend, you have organization saying we won't transport into that state, it is pure chaos that has resulted now in the wake of dobbs. >> the croyle t and the chaos is a point. michele goodwin, mark joseph stern, thank you so much for being with us. next hour, the director of the white house general gendered policy -- biden's administration response to the ivf ruling. be sure to follow the show on social media, our handle everywhere is at the weekend msnbc. s at the weekend msnbc. hellooo new apartment. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding

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and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. here's the thing, this is a mean popular, michael, among evangelicals. >> it's not. look, the republicans have opened up a pandora's box of debates that they have no idea where the next hit is going to come from, hair to nary the conversation that they seemingly want to control, and what you're seeing out across the country is the american people responding, in realtime, what's happening. kellyanne conway, no slouch in polling, certainly -- someone that people respect in certain

circles. polling showing that 85% of americans overall support ivf, 86% specifically focused on ivf are in space with that, 83%, and this is the important one for me, 83% of evangelicals, 83% of even -- support ivf. 73% of those who identify as pro life activists, 73% of a pro-life activists support obvious, so how are republicans so out of step with a base that seemingly they know all about and have argued the case in front of are so out of step with that base that now says oh this one, no no no. it shows, for me simone, this idea that you cannot separate outs abortion as a stand-alone from every other components and

aspect -- because it's a domino effect. >> abortion is health care, the same procedure that a woman has out minutes carriage that is used by the doctor to remove the miscarriage is the same, one of the same pills that is used when given a medical abortion so it is health care and i just think the fundamental misunderstanding that a lot of frankly male members of not just congress but state legislatures across the country have about women's reproductive anatomy shows up in this legislation. across the country. it really does feel like it's a war on women, and an attack on our bodies, and it's about control because i continue to believe that if men could have children we would have all kinds of different flexible odds. >> it would be a very different conversation. >> people should get a second cup of coffee because we have another jam-packed hour of the weekend straight ahead,

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