times since last september. the house would go first. it would require two-thirds of the majority in the house and then go to the senate where it would need a speedy vote. anyone in the senate could slow down the speedy vote to we're looking at a possibility of a shutdown because congress as it tends to do has left this to the last minute. >> i know. every single time. it is friday night at midnight and then saturday morning. let's hope not. thank you so much for that. and that is going to do it for me this day and we have some great news to end this hour on. nicolle wallace is back. which means "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hello there, everybody. it is 4:00 in in new york, i miss saying that. it is so, very, very good to be back with you. we begin with breaking news in what is now set to be the first ever criminal trial of a former president of the united states.

it begins in just under one month. prosecutors in manhattan have asked new york judge juan merchant to impose a gag order on donald trump. sound familiar? barring him from attacking witnesses and exposing the identity of jurors or commenting on the prosecutors working on the case. prosecutors other than district attorney alvin brag himself. in a filing submitted this afternoon, prosecutors write this, quote, the defendant has a long history and continuing pattern of public statements that attack judges, jurors, lawyers, witnesses, and other individuals involved in the legal proceedings against him. the filings are hundreds of pages long, they list a litany of threats made by donald trump and then what happens. the reaction to them. they lay out the call and response pattern, between an ex president who faced 91 felony counts across four jurisdictions and his most violent and extreme

and motivated backers. prosecutors say that trumps attack have had direct and serious consequences for his targets. and those harms are multiplies as the defendant's followers take his lead to pursue additional threats and intimidation, and harassment. these facts establish that without the relief requested here, the defendant's unrestrained -- speech will impose the threat of in proceeding in the fair and orderly adjudication of this case. again, this is all sounding familiar to you. it does to me. it is because alvin brag is not the first prosecutor to ask for a gag order. jack smith asked for one in the federal election case. prosecutors in manhattan note this, quote, the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit recently upheld restrictions on the defendant's extra judicial speech that are essentially identical to the ones requested by the people here.

in the new york civil fraud trial, judge ordered donald trump from attacking staff, that was late last year. the manhattan d.a. revealed what happened when their case against trump started to pick up steam last year, resulting in an indictment back in may writing that in back in 2022, nypd threat assessment and protection unit, tapu, logged 483 threats against -- cases against public officials. only one of which involved threats to the d.a., his family, or employees of this office. in 2023, the same office, tapu, logged 577 threat cases, 89 of which involved threats to the district attorney, his family, and employees of this office. manhattan prosecutors, the latest to be grappling with the disgraced ex president as a

clear and present danger to the rule of law is where we begin with our favorite reporters and friends, all of them to prop me up on the first day back at table. legal correspondent lisa ruben, former u.s. senate co-host of how to win 2024 podcast, claire mccaskill, and former top prosecutor andrew weissmann joins us. and i know you had the job of reading it. what did it say. >> this is a 331-page filing. so i'd love to tell you that i read the whole thing. but one of the things that is so interesting is how well the d.a. office go through donald trump history, including some i had forgotten, the threats against the jury foreperson in the stone case goes through the threats to the d.a. office and one of the things that they say until march of 2023, the guy who is the head

of alvin brag security detail he had never been aware of that threat assessment protective unit getting information about threats to people who were prosecutors. this is the first time he's experienced threats to someone other than the elected district attorney. but the litany of social media posts, criminal cases against people who have threatened public officials including fani willis and mr. bragg himself, the threats against jack smith, the threats against judge engoron's wife and his law clerk, together they present a picture of a person who, when unleashed, really has the potential to corrupt these judicial proceedings. and, in this particular circumstance, has a statutory right to know the names of jurors which differentiates this case from the federal cases we've seen before, where in e. jean carroll cases, the jury was fully anonymous. that is not the case here making

it all the more necessary that unlike the gag order entered by judge chutkan, there is a need for a third provision, protecting jurors. >> this is surreal. i mean, i was nervous that none of the stories would be familiar to me. but 2017, 2018 is calling and it wents its threats to the rule of law back. donald trump has been doing this since the mueller campaign. >> these are newtories and new circumstances. one big picture comment, aside from the fact that you have somebody who used to be the head of executive branch, where they're now been multiple courts, as lisa points out, that have had to take precaution with someone who is the president of the united states, a lot of people are correctly wanting to see legal accountability. whatever it is. whether there is a conviction or not. they want to see legal accountability. but in terms of the political

realm, in terms of what you and claire focus on a lot, donald trump is telling us who he is now. >> right. >> through what he is doing. the fact, just the fact that judges have had to do this, repeatedly, in civil cases, in criminal cases, in federal cases, in state cases, tells you who it is, who is saying that he is fit to be in office. i sort of feel like that message is getting lost, people keep on thinking of this as a interim thing that needs to be overcome to get to legal accountability. >> i don't think it is -- i think this is always been an undue burden on the rule of law and the justice system. the political process failed. and he's now -- i missed a lot news but he's running to the nomination. we used to have -- we now have the jim trafficant as the

obvious nominee. the problem and the strain on the rule of law is because the politics didn't catch them in their net and my question is back over to the rule of law, could it handle him? >> so i think the answer is yes, i do think -- i mean, just take a look at judge kaplan, the federal judge in the e. jean carol case. that is a wonderful model. it is true he had certain tools available to him that are not available in the first instance in the state level. but he ran an incredibly tight ship. he saw who he had there, he's extremely experienced. he protected the jury. he protected witnesses. he gave a jury instruction that he doesn't usually give talking about the role of the jury that is fundmental to our nation. it was so moving and he clearly was trying to counteract the

explicit cause to jury nullification that's with made by donald trump's -- explicit calls to ignore what this guy is telling you, ignore what the plaintiffs wants just take the law into your own hand and it is clear the judge was worried about that. so i do think that the legal system could handle it. it is the belated issue in terms of the time crunch that we're under now. but we are where we are and i do think that judge marchant and judge chutkan if we gets the green light are precisely the kind of no nonsense even keel judges who could handle this. i should just note with respect to judge cannon in florida, she, whether she ever takes the case to trial, but she has before her an issue that is directly relevant to what we're talking about. she said that the names of witnesses and their statements should be made public and the

government has gone back to her to say, you need to reconsider that. and she is going to take that under advisement. but that is precise to see whether she also will adhere to what all of the other judges have understood is necessary to the rule of law which is protecting a trial and protecting witnesses and it is interesting to see whether she follows through. but that is if she does not, that is -- i think there is to question that the government will appeal that. >> so in 2015 and 2016, using our imagination to try to conjure up what sort of threats jurors could face. we don't any more. billboards, electronic billboards calling him a pedophile outside of his house. you have all of the people that testified before the january 6. most of them are republicans who were targeted by trumps and followers we threats of death. and fani willis, life changed forever. the security robbed of not just

the public officials but their children and their spouses and their ex-spouses and their parents forever. that is what we're talking about for jurors. >> yeah. so two things. first, i think it is important to remember for everybody to remember that what these courts are doing vis-a-vis donald trump and his statement, it is just how anybody else would be treated. this is not allowed in criminal or civil cases. parties to the case are not allowed to go out -- i mean, if i was the prosecutor on a case and the defendant was out there doing this, first of all, his lawyers would stop him, or her lawyers would stop him. because of the offense to the protocol of the court. nobody would get away with this. now, that is one point. now you want to hear the really bad news. it is working for him. >> how? >> well because if you look at polling, nicolle. >> no jury has acquitted him of anything. >> i agree. but since he got indicted his

numbers has only solidified. if you talked to people who are talking about supporting trump, they say well they're going after him. if this gag order is entered, you could imagine the response if these rallies that he has, well they've gagged me. of course, the government is after you. the swamp is silencing you. they're weaponizing the justice department to go after you unfairly. it plays into his campaign strategy had a he is a victim and he's the chief cheerleader. >> i wonder, and again, stipulate that i've been away for a few months. but it is not in an infinity number of people into that. chris christie said once indicted by anyone for anything, some of his numbers fall or definitely capped and it looks like from south carolina saturday, there are a whole bunch of people that are just not into him.

>> i'm not saying this means is going to be elected president. god forgive me if you see that. this is a way for him to campaign. politically, he sees his court cases as his campaign. >> events on those days. >> exactly. he's showing up in court when he doesn't have to. >> right, right. >> because he thinks it is helping him and it is with his base in terms of their enthusiasm. now the swing voters, and those important states, that have voted for biden and have voted for trump, they're the ones, i think that could be impacted by an actual conviction. >> what is -- to sort of build into the -- what claire is talking about, when he was president, he used airport hangars and now that use accused criminal, he's using courtrooms. >> courthouse hallways. i would like to see a stronger

hand from the new york court system in particular, the office of court administration which control how anybody can use hallways or courtrooms. and the federal courthouse that donald trump has been in, he may not hold a press conference, he may not circle up with the press. judge kaplan was intolerant of it. but it is the courthouse as a whole. in the hush money case that was coming up, he had a press conference in the hallway and surrounded by scaffolding and it made him look like he was in a play pen which we could discuss. the optics of that. >> sort of a brand. >> particularly since he now needs, as andrew put it, a week or so ago, a babysitter in the form of the independent monitor and in the new york a.g. case. but he is allowed to do it in that courthouse and that is the courthouse where he will be tried next. and so we could count on barring some order from the court

system, donald trump blanched by the two lawyers every day giving those press opportunities and doing it, nicolle, on breaks, when he comes back to lunch and going to the bathroom. multiple times a day. he did that throughout the civil trial that i attended and i fully expect him to do that here to claire's point. now that is diminishing points. in erm its of the fundraising, he could not sustain the numbers that he had at the beginning of this trial. and he had to keep coming up with ways to sort of get the press at the courthouse on unexciting days. we'll see what he comes up with this time. >> it is so twisted. we're sitting here, how does it benefit his fundraising numbers and in march if he's able to hold a presser in the hall of a court where they're grappling with the fact he may pose a lethal threat to prosecutor other than alvin bragg, a witness or a juror. how did we get here? >> so, the problem is that the

country fundamental inability, the fact that there are so many people for whom facts are no longer facts. and so you have donald trump, if there is a trial, and when there have been civil trials, doing everything he can to have counter narratives, to have press conference, to distract from findings, to distract from witnesses. you would normally think that someone in the january 6 case who was innocent, a normal politician stipulates that is not what we're dealing with, i would say i want to file sooner. i need to clear my name of this. because it is false. >> right. >> this is avoiding the drip, drip, drip. because it is better, one thing he learned from going to court 60 times and losing, is that is

an inconvenience fact. better to just say publicly, i won and to say everything else is just information. and so this is going to be about what is happening in the court of law, and making sure that it is reported on by people like us, that people understand those are facts. and good or bad, in other words, whether it is good for him or bad for him, that is how we as a society decide disputed facts. you don't get to just take the law into your own hands and say this is my own reality. but that is what he is trying to do. i do agree that ultimately in the political realm, i'm not sure there is enough people who are -- who buy into that. that is outside of my issue. but i do think sort of in the world that like we inhabit and we used to inhabit, this is about a place where this is where you know that is what the courtrooms are and that is where the disputed facts are -- as

judge amy berman jackson said in the mueller investigation, this is a place where facts an law still matter. and i feel like the election is going to be about whether there are enough people who recognize that. that is exactly what the rule of law means. >> i wonder and i worry, talking about the rule of law in an abstract way and take the human beings out of it. i sat across from the judge who was the target of an assassin and her son was murdered. it is not the rule of law that he's attacking,s it people, with judges and people and with kids. his supports are doxxing people right and left. there is a powder keg feeling to the country that i'm not sure the coverage captures. what is the level of anxiety among people involved in any of these legal proceedings? >> so, that is a problem endemic to our system which is the

eformous amount of resources to prevent that. and behind the scenes, having never work in the white house, there is just an enormous am that is done. and the delay factor. so, we've talked about if someone is going to interfere with the election, if foreigners are going toen gaej if improper payments or interference, there is a time delay. the threat of violence is happening, can happen now and it can interfere with perspective witnesses, whether people want to come forward, whether they taylor their testimony, whether they duck, it could lead to jurors not doing their duty or not wanting to do their duty. it will have that immediate affect and that is just part of -- that is where the constitution in some ways is a suicide pact. it is required that you have facts, you have an investigation, and you do have the rule of law and that is

where donald trump and his sort of extreme followers can have that affect now. i can tell you that from an fbi, secret service perspective, they could not be more all over this. the nypd in connection with the upcoming case is -- i mean, there is no greater police department in terms of dealing with that, obviously new york city has a huge history of dealing with terrorism, and the idea that it now needs to be put into place because of the former president is, again, surreal. but there will be steps taken. >> just unbelievable. sorry. >> i was going to say, i spent a lot of time now in courtrooms where donald trump has appeared as the defendant and one thing that i could say, not knowing how one prosecutor feels personally about the experience is that the level of tension in a courtroom when he is there versus when he is not is

measurable and palpable. so much so that you could feel it in your body even like me, as a journalist, covering that, the amount of what is going to happen next when he is there, it goes back to the john molony, there is a horse in the hospital. the hospital is the courtroom and he's the horse and not knowing how he's going to behave at any given moment is a real sense of tension, if not danger to those proceedings that i don't particularly look forward to. and i know that i will experience it again when i cover this upcoming trial. >> so we now how his supporters react. we saw it in j 6. and his supporters on j-6 poked police officers in the eye with flagpoles and attacked people, defecated in senator offices. this is what his supporters did. so no wonder people are tense. and i guarantee you, as i said

from the very beginning, i'm been pounding this podium for a long time now, jury selection is huge. and there will be people who should serve on this jury that will try to figure out a way not to serve on this jury because they're afraid. >> and vice versa. unfortunately, there will be people -- >> that will lie. >> the biggest fear doing high-profile trials is the person who wants on the jury and is less than candid. so that is the challenge for the government in this case. >> so i always get picked. so if there are ways to get on or off juries, you get -- >> we'll talk. >> tell me what they are in the break. >> we could give you the secret phrase. >> i always get picked. anyway, for another day. thank you so much. and when i saw that happened, i said who is going to read it and i said you are. so we'll be fine. thank you very much. thank you for being here for my first day back. when we come back, underway right now, there is another front in the war on

disinformation in our american political system. there is brand-new reporting on renewed efforts by, just wait one second for it. yes, russia to, to meddle in our upcoming election. this time the kremlin getting an assist from the chaos the republicans are making in congress right now. we're looking at trying to stop it. and later in the broadcast, a special series we're calling american autocracy, it could happen here. who donald trump who we've seen this year shows just how little respect for democracy he has and how far he's willing to do go if he returns to office again. we'll explore just that. how a president who aspired to be an if autocrat, would up end every aspect of a american life. and a former trump white house insider who quit her job on january 6. she will be our guest today with an urgent new warning about what

that would look like and what could happen next. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere, today. contin. don't go anywhere, today progressive makes it easy to save with a quick commercial auto quote online. so you can get back to your monster to-do list. -really? -get a quote at progresivecommercial.com.

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plus, ask how to get up to a $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet package. don't wait, call and switch today! there has been new reporting today about a dangerous new chapter with an attorney that once again is going to sound familiar to viewers. and tied to the rise of the disgraced twice impeached four times indicted ex-president with a particular fondness and affection for dictators specially vladimir putin. this is from nbc news just today. quote, russia is already spreading disinformation in advance of the 2024 election.

uing fake online accounts and bots to damage president joe biden and his fellow democrats according to cyber experts, the attacks on biden is part of an effort by moscow to undercut american military aid to ukraine and support with nato, according to experts. here is what jake sullivan had to say about it on "meet the press." >> there is a history here in presidential elections by the russian federation, by its intelligence services, and there is plenty of reason to be concerned and this is not about politics, this is about national security. it is about a foreign country, a foreign adversary seeking to manipulate the politics and democracy of the united states of america. we're going to be vigilant about that and we'll engage congress on a bipartisan basis because this should be above and beyond politics. >> he's right and his wrong. because for republicans, it is

their politics. now, of course, any foreign power, adversary used to be and should be above politics. but they're not. republicans are at this moment, wittingly or unwittingly, assisting russia, big time. case in point, former fbi informant alexander smirnov has been charged with lying to the fbi about joe biden and his son hunter, and a judge ordered him remanded pending his trial. prosecutors argue that he was a serious flight risk. gib his tied to russian intelligence. i wonder where he's go. an allegation that would be alarming enough on its own, add to that house republicans used him, they touted his testimony endlessly on the airwaves on on capitol hill. it is all part of a very explicit and deliberate structure created by republicans around russian disinformation.

eight years ago donald trump asked russia to hack his democratic opponent. calling for a response and they did. years later, he took russias denial election interference at face value at a podium and as he marched toward the nomination without any resistance from any republicans he refused to condemn the murder of russian most prominent opposition leader alexei navalny and he invited russia to attack our nato allies. according to nbc news, the potential rewards toer vladimir putin are high. one expert said this, not that they didn't have anyone incentive to interfere the last two presidential elections but i would say that the incentive to interfere is heightened right now. joining our conversation, from counterintelligence at the fbi, frank figliuzzi and frank, someone said to me, that if you saw what putin was willing to do

and green light and look the other way for it in '16 and '20 and with soldiers on the battlefield dying in 2024 will make those things seem like games. >> first of all, welcome back, thank you for having me. to quote new york yankee hall of famer yogi berra, here we are again, it is like deja vu. as trump said russia, russia, russia, and but we say russia, russia, russia for a reason. party and trump are absolutely linked to russia and putin. and that is now what they stand for. so, yes, as nbc news has reported out today, experts are saying that they are already seeing the bots and trolls that are attributed to a russian signature as we say in the business, and yes, exhibit "a" would be alexander smirnov in

court today in california who prosecutors assert has strong ties to multiple russian intelligence affiliated persons, if not actual russian io's themselves who have been passing him disinformation and he's lying and he has said i got this from the russian intelligence services. so, here we are, what is going to be different and i would assert worse this time around than '16. a couple of factors. first, technology. artificial intelligence, a.i., is going to allow deep fakes and we've already seen this in a phone call, a robocall pretending to be joe biden up north. but we're going to see it in droves. we're going to see a deep fake that is targeting of it to specific precincts and swing states it is going to be very laser focused and very hard to get out in front of it. second fact or, relates how hard to get out in front of it, is the social media platforms seem far less interested an the

poster child for that would be elon musk, far less interested and far less capacity to do anything about it. elon musk at twitter, now known as x, has essentially fired the teams of people responsible for looking for foreign, fake accounts. foreign government accounts. who is buying the ads. where are they adjacent to? those people are gone. that would vet all of that. so it is going to be unfettered, and then the other platforms seem to be gun shy. if we work too closely with the fbi, god forbid this is coming from russia, we got our hand slapped last night. and there is less of it. and add into it that make russia want to help trump. ukraine, nato, the death of navalny, we had the saudis murder a journalist and now here comes putin murdering navalny. he knows there is no pushback

from trump, this makes the situation far worse potentially for this election. >> you investigated and prosecuted the intersection of russia in trump's campaign last time. just tell me how smirnov happened and how worse off are we that he got as far as he did. >> so, before i answer that direct question, i just want to make sure people understand soming that frank said which is that the former president is good at trying to use the phrase russia, russia, russia, to be like that is behind us and nothing was there. and so move on. that is just democratic ploy. when, as photographer snyder at yale said, that is a tactic to not have us look at what are the actual facts. that is -- that investigation in 2016 was about whether there was a criminal proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a criminal

conspiracy between the trump campaign up to and including trump and the russian government. that is a very different thing than what we're talking about, which is, was russia then and now trying to interfere in the election. there is no question that it was doing that then, and there is no question that it is doing it now. and it is no question that it is going to continue doing that. that is a given. and as you pointed out, not only does putin need it, because if donald trump wins, ukraine is over. let's just call it what it is. >> correct. >> and trump needs it because if he wins, the federal cases are over and the state cases are on ice. so the confluence of interest is -- couldn't be stronger. and then how does an informant happen. >> let me ask you, first of all, because it feels like we're -- we went from the russia hoax to

damn right we're colluding and yeah, i did it and watch us do it again. >> couldn't agree more. when we were looking at this, there was sort of a given that this was like a third -- >> because it was about his manhood. i didn't need putin. i won it all by myself and now he's like bring it on. >> and the other thing that is changed, the mueller report, but there was a bipartisan report. >> it was worse for him on the russia stuff. it was about compromise and hookers and it was -- >> it was bipartisan. and that is when there were some people -- >> who cared about russia. >> who viewed this as a clip you played as the way it should be which this is a national security issue. this is so not a political issue. no foreign country should be helping either side. if doesn't matter if they were doing this for biden or for trump. and that is another thing that is changed. it is not just trump saying, yeah, bring it on. we know he did that in the trump

tower, you have disinformation on hillary clinton. great. >> but you say it as a love it. i want to put a informant thing. i want to bring you in on the politics. people wax nostalgic for the republican party of romney and thought russia was the greatest geopolitical threat facing the country and mccain, you couldn't give him a microphone when he wanted to call putin a thug and now you have top to bottom to right to left, a republican party that either, again, explicitly or by not condemning the murder of navalny, is all in with vladimir putin. >> it is a stunning reversal. i look at lindy graham and and i think in the armed services committee when he whats so passionate about the danger of russia and putin. and of course, looking on in approval was john mccain. who said, notably.

that russia is a gas station masquerading as a country with a thug running it who wants to kill his opponents. so, that is what it is. and i frankly don't understand why the aid to ukraine has -- well i understand it, because trump is trying to help putin. but he has so many people in congress willing to go along with him. so many people who are trying to make russia okay. and you know what is really interesting, nicolle, how the media eco-system on the right is lifting this up. i mean, places like accountants for "wall street journal," and places like the washington examiner and the post and news max and fox, they are all kind of coming around this smirnov issue and saying well this is just them trying to make him look bad. because he has the goods on

biden. and why didn't they prosecute steele. and you should see what they're saying about smirnov. >> i gave up the journal but i will check it out. >> but they need to understand, that yes, the fbi had him as an informant and they paid him money, you don't get boy scouts an girl scouts to be informants. you get bad guys and they act up and sometimes you support them and i'm sure you have many more stories could you tell about informants who have gone south and lied and done terrible things. that doesn't mean that the fbi is -- was coddling him or somehow stamping his character with this is a good guy. >> let me ask you a structural political question. so republicans now stand with russia against ukraine. and it doesn't harm them politically because that is trump's position. ukraine is our ally, russia is our adversary.

again, i stipulate, i've been away, i don't know a lot nuances but biden is standing with our ally in another conflict and it is a political liability. >> he's standing with, this is really ironic, the days when they didn't want to have french fries in the house cafeteria because the french weren't strong enough -- they wanted to call them freedom fries. >> i remember vaguely. >> we're talking about the republican party taking the side of anti-democracy. >> anti-american. >> anti-free speech, anti-being able to vote and anti-freedom of religion. they're taking the side of the bad guys against our allies who are all about giving people a voice in their government. that is the ultimately screw ball turn in this incredible bizarre situation. >> because i think it is just an important -- as the conversations go from the national security to the political, the person who is standing with ukraine, is joe biden. in a way in a tradition very

consistent with what john mccain used to do, and ronald reagan and i worry he gets it coming and going. but he's displaying strength and support for a democracy in the conflict that republicans aren't. they're already behind on break. this is the down side of my coming back. we're going to keep this going. house democrats want to know how much the republican colleagues knew and when they knew it about this new very much discredited fbi informant and his association where russian intelligence. eric swalwell joins the conversation next. eric swalwl eljoins the conversation next. [dramaticlly beat] introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required.

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in the wake of the republican so-called biden impeachment inquiry, imploding and democrats want to know about republican complicit in the growing threat in presence of russian disinformation. democrats are calling on the u.s. justice department to investigate how oversight republicans with a -- what they knew and when they knew it in the sham impeachment effort and his tied to russian intelligence and they were being used to further russian interference in the 2024 election. meanwhile, republicans are downplaying legitimate concerns about their behavior, calling it russia hoax 2.0. watch a little bit of that. >> these allegations against this informant only gives democrats another excuse to call trump a russian asset.

>> they're trying to make the impeachment inquiry go poof. >> they're going to play the russia card. every time they get backed into a corner, they play the russia card. >> and it sounds like 2016 and 2017,le whole russian collusion lies that they came up with in the beginning. >> how big of a threat do you see russian aggression going forward? >> i think if you ask most people if they're afraid of russia, they would laugh and tell you no. >> eric swalwell of california and frank and claire are still with us. and they show us they're on the side of america when it comes to russia is to back the you know what out of ukraine. forget about what they say and do on fox news, they refuse to back the democracy and the threat against russia. >> republicans are soft on russia. they see it as trump likes russia, russia likes trump so we have to go with trump. and that is how they're going to view this all the way through. and it is too bad.

because if you really took a step back, you could see that ukraine's freedom ultimately is america's freedom. that is the story of history. when it comes to russia and brutal ruthless dictators, but the other piece here, because they love to thump their chest and say they're tough on china, well, i don't know. if you're taiwan and you're watching -- why would you for a second think they would stand up for you when you're attacked. >> let me ask you this. what is this that democrats want from the department of justice when it comes to this smirnov use in the impeachment -- >> it is very clear that smirnov was working with russian intelligence, by his own admission and the republicans are so eager to put this out there just to beat up joe biden. and in furtherance of never accepting him as president. so we do want to know, what notice did you have of his lack of credibility. when did you learn that he was not a credible witness and why

would you continue to do this? now if you look at who they relied upon in their investigation, they have someone indicted for working the chinese agent and someone who has been indicted for working as a russian agent and another wet serving a 14-year prison sentence, so they're just relying on the least credible people because they never will accept biden as president so anything that further delegitimatize biden andine if that is aligning with russia, their all in to do this. >> i was on the air for 47 minutes and i think about the jimmy tape. when they said trump was with holding congressionally approved aid to ukraine, john bolton said he did it. gordon sundland said he did it. all of the sources were credible from inside of the trump white house and plus a whistleblower, and they didn't believe them. why did they turn to an unreliable informant when the

questions were about biden or is that obvious in. >> i think they're all in for trump. they've turned this congress into the largest law firm in d.c. that works on behalf of just one client. donald trump. and so all they know reflexively is to do what he wants. if he said no ukraine funding, no ukraine funding. if they strike a border deal but it clicks for him, they're going to kill the border deal. and as democrats, we have to show voters who hate politics that this is republican efforts to put politics over people and we want to foot that script and everything we do is to try to put people over politics. >> frank, i asked adam schiff this question once, but it is apparent that one party can't protect the country. you can't just have one the parties protected it from an adversary like russia. what are your security concerns about what all of these stories

reveal? >> yeah, gop now seems to stand for gushing over putin. that is where we are. and yes, there is an inherent national security concern. first, just what you folks were just talking about, it would have been laughable self years ago for anyone to propose, a career federal prosecutor in california and nevada and judges in both of those states have actually conspired together to come up with a source and the fbi that will discredit impeachment attempts against biden. that would be laughable. but now people are kind of chewing on that. like, yeah, and we've members of congress saying here we go again. deep state and making stuff up. it doesn't work that way. but from a national security perspective, that hurts us, a n perspective, it hurts us that large segment of the american poll lags lags is willing to sw anything. and we have a situation where

china and other nations will exploit this. if we focus only on russia, we'll sdwet hurt by other adversaries. and don't be surprised. they will pretend to be rush that in the sign cyber world and it will take a while to figure on where the attack is coming from. and our government will have to pull out all the stops. all hands on deck particularly in the cyber world to get through this next election. they did incredible work in 2016. some day there may be a movie. but most will be classified right now. but i'm telling you, they suppressed incredible effort to screw up their election and they will have to do it again.

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supreme court heard oral arguments today in two cases that could have consequences for social media and all the rest of us. at issue laws adopted by republicans in texas and florida in the wake of donald trump being deplatfored by the number of sites. and let's go back to the table. it seems to be whether you can yell fire in a crowded movie theater. >> this is a one of a couple cases where you really have a far right effort to sometime any effort private companies from preventing disinformation or thwarting disinformation including vush that disinformation. or the government not being able to actually try to get companies to do it. which is the case that is coming up where they were dealing with not just misinformation, but

just preventing covid and misinformation to save lives. shouldn't be a controversial issue. but just going with science. and so this is -- it is hard not to see a through a political lens in terms of what is happening. the case that just heard is not even state action. so interesting to see what the supreme court does. >> what do i think they will do? >> i think companies will be free to do what they think is appropriate. i think the harder case is what the limits are in terms of what the government can do and i think the line already established is that they can try to recommend or strongly advocate. but they can't do something where they are company seriousing saying if you don't do this, x will happen.

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. welcome to the end of democracy. we're here to overthrow it completely. didn't get it all there on january 6, but we'll endeavor to get rid of it. >> obvious point to make about donald trump is take him literally and seriously. he means what he says. now he is telling us what he sb ends to do. and it is people into w.h.o. try to wish it away, brush it away living in a alter and a half difference reality. he will do everything he can to become an absolute authority aryan leader if given the

opportunity. so you've been warned. the four times indicted ex-president is not interested in continuing to american experiment and continuing the democracy thing we've been trying to perfect the last 477 years. from hillary clinton making the pointed comments that were echoed by the guy jack something talks about actually ending democracy. people getting the same message. donald trump will give authoritarianism a try. not trump derainment syndrome.

and he says that it is on his bucket list. >> you are programming america you would never abuse power as headry retribution? >> except for day one. it is total. total. >> great victor vehicle or ban, prime minister of hungary, very strong man. he is a strong man running the country. >> you think that you can stop it in its tracks. but not necessarily. these were voters in south carolina from saturday. >> i believe that sometimes

history calls for strong men to be strong leaders. >> amen. >> at key times. and would be perfect for the job. >> amen. >> and that was real. america needs a strong man and she was saying amen. so let's have that conversation, right? what kind of damage could an measure president who is autocracy committed due to our way of life, to every facet of every life as we know it? let's say what is happening to women's rights or civil rights or the military or your money. if our democracy started to be shaped like a dictator ship. something that we'll deciding into in a series we're calling american and you to being creation. and if on co cue to aid us, this

amazing and we'll brag about it. they say that there could be an unprecedented level of politicization of intelligence and push even harder it replace people perceive as hostile with inexperience loyalists. that could empower the former president's top subordinates to shield him from information that doesn't conform with his politics and even changes wording of assessments. sounds like a dictator's dream and national and international nightmare. that is where we start this hour

with our favorite experts and friends. whave professor of history and also chair of department of religious studies at the university of pennsylvania. and also these a butler is here. an monitor have all of you here. i've been reading on what up said and i wonder if why you say why aren't people having it conversation. >> my research shows from the germans from the early 1930s who said that we won't have a coup

oig. as all the countries a around them had a coup. people are always in denial. they are always unpresented. very often they think that this can't happen here. and nowadays this is a much more -- this is much more difficult to comprehend because today's autocrats tell you what they will do. donald trump, he was president, and he is saying very openly that he admires dictators, putin, xi jinping, even the leader of north korea. and authoritarianism is a system where arranged where the leader has control and can't pay any consequences. that is what he is saying that he wants for the u.s. and a struggle to wake people up. >> why do you think, why do you think people can't -- i ask that because it feels like in '15 and '16 he benefited from he won't

say seeming being very ignorant of world history and world affairs, but he ran the country for four years and his ignorance is now details from three or four former chiefs of staff. everyone seems to have been traumatized they witnessed from the commander in chief. and a lot of reporting from inside the tank where they try to educate him and brief him. chairman milley had to walk the line. and u.s. national security was on a nice edge for four years. how are we contemlaing doing it again? >> because donald trump far from being a clown or lazy, he is relentless at being an

authoritarian personality. unfortunate for us, he fits the personality profile of every leader in my book. outcomes are different. but he just cares about loyalty and making money for his family. and that is the same. so these types of leaders are not interested in governing, they are interested in getting power and making money and they don't recognize any difference between public and private. that is how we've ended up with highly classified sensitive national security documents in the bathroom of his private residence. that is how they roll. so he is an bore race of heads of state in america but everything about him is typical of authoritarian.race of heads f state in america but everything about him is typical of

authoritarian. >> and it can't happen with enthusiasm. no one had to dig around or -- those are his supporters saying out loud they want a strong man. how do you fix the sickness in a culture that wants to be something other than a democracy? >> it is very difficult. part of what is happening people see him as a father figure but also a personality that could take care of them. and so for that woman who was in the clip that said amen, that is also the religious piece of this. because basically they think of him as kind of a -- they likened him to the bible with jesus behind oim on his shoulders. he is not just a figure of popularity like you follow as a

movie star. he is much more. and they are willing to give their lives toef him. >> there is great reporting on the erosion in the evangelical movement. and he is someone who has not displayed any character in the fun space yet all the so-called moral institutions are all in, how does that happen? >> it happens because they want power. and i'll refer you to last thursday when he was at national religious broadcaster and he said i'll here to give you power. they don't need him to be up standing. they need him to give them power. and in that way if they are empowered, they can do all the rest that they think they believe in morally.

i talk about this in my book. i try to explain to people that morality is a shield, it is a protection because it makes it look like you are religious when what you want is power. and i think that is something in the american context is difficult for people too understand. but it is very important to understand when we're facing autocrats. >> and you corner people and press them on all these flashing -- i won't call them yellow anymore. flashing red lights. they say i can sleep because so far the courts have held. is that realistic read and is a that sustainable? >> no, it is really not. what is interesting, and you autocracy is con tank yus.

contagious. and this is not just about donald trump. we have governors who is bent on deciding what children can learn and also engaged in deep corruption and statewide leaders who won't leave office. and stripping governors of power because they want to hold on to power. so the culture is catching exposed all that we left. we allow the supreme court to have that code. they had scalia and the stuck

duck hunting. this allowed people to run the tables. so because they have seen 24i78 break through the barriers of norms and ethics, others doing the same thing and they are not getting the push back just as he did not get the pushback. so if we were just talking about donald trump, that would be concerning enough. but we're not. we're talking about a population that has been quickly educated, that is why i call trump an axle rant. he didn't create the conditions but he accelerated them. so we have a population now that basically doesn't know what ethics are in the public life. we see it at the state level. and i also talk with older people from the south.

what black people lived under was authoritarian. so we have experience and we need to begin to mind that experience. it is one of the reasons why in this country racism is why we see it and when we don't cut it off, we end with it all the rest. and i hope we start to pay attention to that. >> so that is the open wounds. and in those opinions, clarence thomas made no secret that he wants to take away marriage equality. the zeal with which existing rights are pursued to being removed also seems to cut

against anyone's delusion that the courts will save us. >> yes, and it begins with the inappropriate and what should in a normal time and normal place be embarrassing ethical lapses with how we ended up with this on the court. the refusal to allow president biden to seat someone on the court during his last year. the willsness to see the kavanaugh and allow for not all the documented information to come out. the rush to put amy coney barrett on the bench. once you have swallowed all 6 that, once you have the confirmation of superspreader event on the white house law,

you have covid in the white house once you have been a part of it, yes you will feet yourself annual to flex your poor. they are running the tables. and when the chief justice tries to tamp the brakes when the border clause was at issue, what you see is the belligerence of justice etoe and thomas who believe this is their times. they have been underdogs and now they want to flex their power and very little to stop them.

you can't wait until the autocrat comes to power and then say that we should have this code or make sure there is not nepotism. you have to do it beforehand and it is our failure to tend to the infrastructure much our democracy that has allowed someone like trump to unravel us so quickly. >> and we had norms. if you run for president and lease the taxes, trump annihilated that norm and he went to the white house, tried to get -- so you can so we kind of say in-aannihilation of all northerns. and so maga may stand to making

and you tore therriens great in it down. how are they successful? >> and they are marketing violence to americans. j yeah. >> yeah, they phrase the fighters. >> and they say it is necessary to save the country. and he is doing this. and effectity effectively saying the way they see ethics. and it is a systemic thing. trump spawns imitators like ron

desantis and others who compete to be lawless and extreme. so the very sad thing is that this is a collapse of morals. you need to remake institutions. and the leader is a criminal and so there are -- there are few who are criminal in so many ways. on donald trump has made the project in his image. and 2025 is about remaking our institutions in his image and in the image of a moral collapse. and so one of the saddest things. people after the hit letters and mussolinis fell said that they were encouraged to be their worst selves. and that is tragic to me.

>> and it is like watching the battle waged between the devil that won out in terms of how people -- instincts that people responded to when they went in the voting booth. i wonder if you see anything that gives you hope. >> what gives me hope is young people because they see through out of this. the disinformation, they see through the fake moraity where people are trying to say you shouldn't have and an borings or sex. and let's take the threesome down in florida, right?

it is right in front of you. and there is more of us than there are of them and they know it, but they have a good media campaign and they have ways to amplify themselves through disinformation, through doing the kinds of things that get pressed. so every time trump says something crazy, we talk about it because we have to, right? because there is it 100 other people underneath him saying the same things. so that makes it difficult. because we have hope but the voices of reason and people who want democracy need to be heard. even every day person driving the school bus or teaching a class or any of these things, people need to stand up for the democracy. before the rest of it fails. >> and how do you take the message to the country? how does joe biden say you may

disagree with me, but if you want your vote to matter, if you want to continue to live in a country where you have elections, you have to go with me? >> i think he is saying that. and i have a bit of a different view of how one markets the idea of rebuilding a democracy. we have allowed people to believe that their voice only counts every four years. if you were running i'd highlight a local election, a school board election, public service election. and in oklahoma, the tiktok and, you know, a situation novel involving the nonbinary student.

and his commentary rough and awful. and i'd try to convince people that democracy happens from the bottom up. not from the top down. and they have much power. they can influence the school board election. help people to feel their power and help to educate people about the habit of democracy which is not just showing up every four years and then being mad about what that president does or doesn't do. it is about the ticket and showing up and going to town halls and calling the senator. we are being called to a higher level of citizenship. >> and so democracy is not this stain over here we're talking about, it is the practice. and it is not just voting in the school board election, it is running for the school board seat yourself.

so important. i hope that you will continue to come when we call and have this conversation. we'll try to have it every day. starting so much. and when we come back, we'll be joined by the insider trying to sound alerts about what a second trump term will mean. term will n hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ changing your habits is the only way that gets you to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

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he has wanted to weapon sneeze the dog. the fact that he feels the lead to being a dictate store shows he is weak.the fact that he fee to being a dictate store shows he is weak. >> he could weaponize against the media and the people. almost too scary to actually wrap your head around. >> and she was the former deputy press second for donald trump. she resigned on the evening of january 6, 2021. she went on to testify before the january 6 select committee and she has been a one woman siren warning us what could be at stake for democracy itself should trump return to power. joining us is sarah matthews is

here. where are the men? were there any? >> you know, we have had dam kinzinger oer out there. out there. >> and he also says where are the men about. >> yes, and it has been the women soind ingsounding the at me. i think that people have not taking the threat seriously because there are not more out there sounding the alarm. because there are so many republican elected officials who say these things privately but would never say them publicly. >> and i just found some notebooks full of people from inside the white house that trump was worried about the place leaking by a sieve.

what did you see and when did you see it that told you trump was dangerous? >> i didn't necessarily agree with everything that he said or did, but i think he thought he needed people of good character so i agreed to join. i didn't trump in 2016. first time i may have said that, but i did not vote for him. >> in 2016. but i saw the policies and people he surrounded himself with. so i was more okay with the idea of supporting him. and then when the opportunity came around, obviously i jumped at it, but i think when he refused to accept the results of the 2020 election, it started

this slow burn where i felt uncomfortable. and breaking point on january 6. >> and i just mean it as what can we learn from people who saw what we as a public didn't see. you're in good company of people that thought that they could go in after he won. but i want to know what you think we have a right to expect from other people like yourself. do you think people like other security officials will speak out? >> i think that people aren't feeling as inclined to speak out. >> why not? >> i don't think that they feel the pressure because we still have so many months away from the election. but it will come up quicker than we realize it. so i'm hopeful as we get closer to it as donald trump is the nominee, maybe once he is convicted, maybe they will feel

the pressure to come forward. and that is why i'm out here speaking because i'm sticking my neck out as are a lot of women. so i do think they will feel the duty to come forward because they saw how unfit donald trump is. >> he has promised to punish feel like bill barr and general millie. should we take him seriously? >> absolutely. i think that he has said -- that is the thing. i sound like an al alarmest, but you need to take him at his wortd. he wants to get revenge.

he knows how to abuse power now. and so i think toward the end of his administration, he was -- or he was appointing people as acting secretaries to by pass senate confirmation. those are the kind of things a concern me. or some of the policies that he got backlash for. john kelly be push r back on like pulling out of nato. and now he is basically encourages putin to invade our natopulling out of nato. and now he is basically encourages putin to invade our nato allies. i think that is what he would do if he were president again. >> and i read what he really thought about the men and women of the military. that people with suckers before how does that make you feel now? >> it is so funny you ask that.

i was at the white house. and when he made that exhibit, i was not the white house, but when the story at the atlantic came to light and which it was report order, i was working at the white house and i pushed back. >> he denied it. >> and so did some of the staffers that were on the trip with him. and so obviously i'm going to take them at their word. and then general kelly then came forward and now has said publicly on the record that he heard the comment. and so it makes me disappointed because i believed in him and took him at his word. and to know that i was defending lies, it doesn't sit well with me, it does his gus is gusts me. this is how he talks about our members of military.dis gusts m. this is how he talks about our

members of military.gusts me. this is how he talks about our members of military. i'm sad that i did defend that. >> and hard to have reflections on your public life. i was a spokesperson too and i appreciate you saying those things on tv. i want to ask you, i remember when the stormy daniels book came out. two people told me they were described by her talking about his body parts. he doesn't care. he cares about his hair. i didn't want go in the rain. so i can't imagine that, but i guess he does. he cares about his weight, his wealth, his body. i mean, how do you go after someone who doesn't care about defending the democracy. joe biden figured it out.

but how can someone defeat him politically? >> he has no shame when it comes to his policies or not caring about the constitution or anything. he is vein and cares about his looks. >> amazing because he does eat bacon cheese burgers every day. >> exactly. but he had the white house doctor lie about his health and his weight. >> and i'm sympathetic about the quai weight. but to lie about it seems like both side of the coin.weight. but to lie about it seems like both side of the coin. >> exactly. and kind of to your earlier question on how you do go after him, i think that president biden has done a great job of talking about the case for democracy. we saw that as a motivating factor for people in 2022. and i think that donald trump and his people actually, his team, feel worried about that

and so that is why you are trying to see him flip the their tip. and he has been saying that joe biden is the threat to democracy. i did but i need to support jo biden and make sure that we defeat donald trump. >> yeah, to hear you say that about jsh joe biden, makes me

feel like -- you sought supporter up close. how do you break through? >> it is difficult. we saw those that believe that the 2020 election was stolen and some who believe joe biden rightfully won. so how do you combat the misinformation. and it is really tough. because i think when there are republicans out there like myself saying that there is no evidence of fraud and if donald trump was defeated by joe biden, that helps but there are not enough of us. so it is disappointing when the officials say silent. and so it makes zero sense.

zero logic to it. and it is really hard to push back on that, but that is why i wish that there were more people out there doing so because i think that people would start to believe it. >> when you hear the arguments would be made in all across the political spectrum, do you have hope? >> i do. we have never lived through an assaults of psychological warfare and such concerted attempt to dela jazz might a sitting president. i have day i think about the fact thatin 2022 the texas gop, one of the most extremist parties passed a resolution that said they don't believe -- they called biden and i will la mitt and president. a third of my book is about military coup "s.

and they don't recognize his authority. and we saw this problem of not recognizing federal authority in a recent problem with the border. and so there has been a wholehearted dela i didn't tellization of the head of state off because biden is in it that goes way beyond just he is old or he is this. >> and started about obama. >> yes. andtracking he this every day. republicans saying he shouldn't give the state of the union speech. why? because he appears to be as our president because they want him to be missing in action so the coup can continue. because the coup is continuing. >> and so please come book early and often.

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democrats agree. and fit like a jigsaw puzzle in my mind. conservative republican steve garvey is the wrong choice for the senate. ...our republican opponent here on this stage has voted for donald trump twice. mr. garvey, you voted for him twice... as your own man, what is your decision? garvey is wrong for california. but garvey's surging in the polls. fox news says garvey would be a boost to republican control of the senate. stop garvey. adam schiff for senate. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. whether did you think covid could said that covid should be

cured by a bright light? >> it is very sad that joe biden is clearly aa dementia patient. >> on sorry, got my notes mixed pup what did you think when donald trump so he suggested had covid cured? >> depends on the knowledge pl. >> and joe biden has a problem. he is not a patriot. >> and so sorry, how do you feel about donald trump using his bone spurs to dodge the vietnam draft? >> my brother-in-law has flat feet. >> and it is not like we didn't know cameras were roll. is that amazing? simple yet effective. and joining our conversation,

john heilemann and also with me at the table msnbc analyst molly frast is here. and i did not read the news papers from the months that i was off. but this is all you need to know. you are in this business. without shame cameras still rolling if trump did it is fine. >> first of all, welcome back. thank you for coming back. i was hoping while you were away pa that we'd fix all the problems. but no problem, it is all the

threat have gone away. everything is cool. but not the indicate. apparently things are maybe worse than when you left. so sorry about that. but awesome to have you back. america has missed you. but you know that we live in tribal america and people's reactions to -- it is not even -- not about the camera being on or off, but they appear the word biden and they say bad stuff and trump and they say good stuff. rest doesn't register. he's the greatest thing ever.

same thing around joe biden, he is terrible. and it is that imprimitive -- not all republicans but the core that are at that point where they are on a rehe neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.fhe neck recee trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.lhe neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.ehe neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.xhe neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.e neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is. neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.neck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.eck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. that is all it is.ck receive trigger. and so it is a predictable knee jerk response. >> and also it is not how democratic voters -- you ask if democrat democratic primary voter and they are krit critical of joe biden and donald trump. but the nominee for president has a cult following that cares not at all about the fact that they have been indicted and found civilly liable.

and i wonder what you think the white house and the biden campaign can do to address it. >> this is this maga base, this hardened group that will go along with anything pin these are the people who gave more money when he got indicted. so proof that the deep state is there. and that group you are never going to get the biden white house say good-bye to those guys. like that is just -- you can't win those hearts and minds. they are too bought in. but that is okay but that group is getting smaller and smaller. and trump was one of the first presidents to ever not have any interest this growing the electorate. and so i do think that trying to >> what is necessary is that we in the mainstream media are pro democracy. we covered the stakes and not the odds. we covered what would happen and not the horse race.

>> and listen, i don't give advice to anybody out there. we are all doing our best, trying to do our best and live tv is complicated at best. i do think and hope that jimmy kimmel has set the bar for how you interviewed trump voters. it is all bs to them. do not ask them, it's all bs. john, you are out there, do you think that the tone and tenor of political election coverage is different this time? >> no. i'm not sure about the coverage. i will tell you haven't gone to iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina as i have done for years. cycle after cycle after cycle. this is a really we earn time out there, and it's weird because the mood of the country in those places, and i mean this in the republican party, it's different than 2016 around

trump. it's true for the 2020 around trump. there is this acquiescent quality to it where there is still the trump base. there is another big chunk of the republican party, this other chalk that hates him and going to get rid of him. there is a big chunk of the republican party that is kind of like, yes i guess, you know? sure. he is going to win, i hate biden, but they are not out there. the long signs. i've never seen a south carolina primary where there are not lance enough. 2020, he was an incumbent president, and there was more infused -- enthusiasm -- about running for a non primary in the middle of a pandemic. everybody is -- and i think that speaks to what molly's talking about. those voters, and nikki haley voters and really soft trump letters that are like, yes i'm republican, i hate biden, so we're stuck with trump. those partisan -- people are ripe for the picking. i think that's what divided campaign has to focus on. >> i am so happy to see you

guys. i wasn't paying attention to the, clock but -- we will come back tomorrow to be continued. john highland, molly jong-fast. thank you for being here today. a quick break for, us we will be right back. we will be right back. great. one more thing to worry about. it was all too hard to deal with in the beginning, but making a plan with my doctor to add precision was easy. preservision areds2 contains the exact nei recommended, clinically proven nutrient formula to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. thanks to preservision, i feel better that i'm doing something about it like millions of others. preservision. introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. it can help you get clearer skin. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss.

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thank you fudge -- on this monday, it's wonderful to be back. a special thank you to my friend and colleague, alicia menendez and my friend and colleague ali velshi to sit in this chair said that i could spend three magi