both biden and trump see as key to their path to victory and noted that biden won it in 2020, trump won it in 2016. that's why you see the president and trump both going to michigan frequently in their travel schedule. >> we certainly heard donald trump's, shall we say, unorthodox pitch to black voters over the weekend. hard to see how that'll help. we have complete coverage of the michigan primary all day on msnbc. politics editor for bloomberg, laura davison, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> there is a conspiracy meme. you seem to have fun with it. you've co-opted dark brand, and this is a yard sign. do you enjoy playing around with the dark brand meme? >> no, i resent the hell out of

it. [ applause ] >> my favorite, there are 18% of americans according to recent polling that believe you and taylor swift are working in cahoots. after the chiefs won the super bowl, you posted this on social media and wrote, "just like we drew it up." now, can you confirm or deny that there is an active conspiracy between you and ms. swift? >> where are you getting this information? it's classified. >> classified information? you won't share it with us? >> i will tell you, she did endorse me in 2020. >> she did. you might be wondering, might be wondering, you think it might come around again? >> i told you, it's classified. >> okay. president biden embracing the

dark brand and meme on ""late night with seth meyers."" it was his first appearance on the show in ten years. he was a guest as vice president on seth's first episode as a host. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, february 27th. how did he do, willie? >> pretty well, i think. he was in his building. had midtown locked up. then they headed downstairs for ice cream on the ground floor of her building, where as we'll see in a minute, the president of the united states answered a very serious question about israel, for example, while licking an ice cream cone. >> i know. i was like, it's melting. this is weird. but he got asked the question, and he answered the question. >> it was strange, yeah. asking these important questions eating ice cream cones. reminds me of the ill-fated christmas special. >> right. >> we were sitting in christmas clothes on our last show before christmas. >> christmas clothes? >> trump called in talking

about -- christmas pajamas. >> pajamas. >> donald trump called in talking about nuclear war. you know, sort of ill fated. you got your "star wars" christmas special, your "morning joe" christmas special. >> willie, you were off that day. >> were you off? >> i think i missed that somehow. i don't know where i was. >> we did "way too early" in our pajamas. it's worth not looking back into. >> oh, right. >> it's actually a long holiday tradition for us. i mean, we've been doing it since the andrew sisters that helped us debut it in 1946. >> yeah. >> year after the war, i think, willie, you were out, you know, measuring your house in levittown. we need to do it again, a christmas special. >> no. >> we do.

>> all right. we have jonathan lemire. waist down, he is in his pajamas. associate editor of "the washington post" and analyst eugene robinson is here. former chair of the republican convention and co-host of "the weekend," michael steele. senior aide to the biden and clinton campaigns, adrienne elrod. they've been showing me how to be street smart, which i am not. >> you shouldn't base on where you live by louis vuitton. >> darn. let's get to the news. today is primary day in michigan, and for the republicans, today's results will determine only 16 of michigan's 55 delegates. 39 others will be decided saturday during a state party convention. but there will be competing conventions this weekend because of a leadership dispute within

the gop. christina carimo was removed as chair following a vote by party members. she's refused to accept the results and still claims to be the party's leader. you see how this doesn't work? >> hold on a second. are you saying that an election denier denied her own election results? what a shock. >> correct. >> gene robinson -- [ laughter ] -- this is a sign of things to come. >> it is, it is. >> sometimes you need to step back, right? sometimes you need to step back and go, why are things happening the way they are? i know we've all seen op-eds talking about this through the years. but the republicans have lost seven of the last eight presidential elections when it comes to popular vote. they figured out in '16 how to

win just barely through the electoral college. gene, not to get too deep into it here, but i'm going to get deep into it because that's what i do. if you take away ralph nader in 2000, take away jill stein in 2016, get this, a republican would not have been elected president this century. that's assuming bush doesn't run in 2004 for re-election. but the republicans have lost the country. this is amazing. since 1992, republicans have won the popular vote one time. what do you do if you know you're going to lose? you're not changing the country but will keep denying elections. they're trying to perfect it now. >> first thing, you gerrymander the hell out of everything, right, to try to build an

advantage. you put your thumb on the scale in every way you can, which the republican party did. then you still lose. the only recourse is to say, no, it didn't happen. i didn't lose. i actually won, even though you lost. it is incredible that this is sort of being repeated down the ranks of the republican party. now, you have the situation in michigan where, i think this is a term of art, but you have this one claiming to be the head of the party. they'll have to duke it out. earlier this month, the republican national committee recognized pete hoekstra, endorsed by trump, as the state's party chairman. he will oversee a convention in grand rapids while carimo is holding her gathering in detroit. as that plays out, former south

carolina governor nikki haley was in grand rapids yesterday making a final plea to michigan voters. >> you look at what's happened in the early states. they'll talk about donald trump winning, and he did. i'll give him that. but what about the fact that in all the early states, he did not get 40% of the vote? donald trump will say, oh, those are all democrats that voted in south carolina. no, less than 5% were democrats or unaffiliated. those are republicans. same thing were iowa. 40% of the vote is not with him. you can't win a general election if you don't get the 40%. then is he doing anything to support himself? no, he said anyone who supported me is barred permanently from

maga. [ applause ] think about that. if you're running for president, your job is to bring as many people to you as possible, not push people out. >> oh yeah. >> right! >> but that's what he is doing, pushing people away from the republican party. >> no doubt about that, michael steele. this is the trap republicans have set for themselves, is it not? which is, they are the party of donald trump, fealty to donald trump, which is enough to win a primary but not by as much as you'd expect a de facto to win a primary, which is what donald trump is. getting 60% of the vote and losing 40% of the vote in south carolina where he is popular. now, they have a candidate who can win the primaries, no doubt about that, but is repelling, to say the least, even some republican voters, but certainly independent voters that he'll need to win a general election. >> it's how you grind yourself down as a national party into the dust of nothing. the reality is, as joe aptly

pointed out, there is no real runway to sustain growth prospects for the republican party with donald trump as its head. it's spent the last eight years systematically taking out the leadership that could win. the candidates that could win are losing in primaries. michigan is a recent example of that. nikki making the point about the 40%, and a lot of people are dancing on the 40th in new hampshire and in -- where were we just now? >> south carolina. >> it's a loss on me. here's the deal, that 40% is not a real number. you have democrats and independents who are voting in your primary, in a republican primary, you have to say something, where is my base? it was actually independents and democrats who voted in nikki's

south carolina primary. she lost her home state among republicans by a bigger number. so the question becomes, how do you translate that into a national campaign for super tuesday? guess what? the koch brothers said there is no there there and pulled the money out. where do you go now? the reality is, donald trump, everything he touches does die. everything he has tried to put in place does not work. the rnc will be controlled by his daughter-in-law, basically. and, you know, a chairman who -- of north carolina who is an election denier. out of the 168 members of the rnc, mika, 144 of them came in under trump. they're all trump's people. where do you think this party is going to go in succeeding elections? well, on the democratic side, president biden is expected to easily defeat congressman dean phillips of

minnesota, but his biggest challenge is likely to come from the state's large arab-american population. michigan governor and campaign co-chair gretchen whitmer acknowledged a large portion of the electorate will not vote for him in protest of his handling of the israel-hamas war. >> there will be a sizable number of votes for uncommitted. i think that it is every person's right to make their statement about what's important to them. >> the uncommitted organizers have said they want to get at least 10,000 votes. do you think they'll reach that? >> i think that's possible, yeah. >> adrienne elrod, this is a challenge, given that the war in israel has taken terms that are inexplicable in terms of losses on the palestinian side. >> yeah. >> i mean, over the top is how president biden put it himself. >> correct. >> there are rumblings that president biden is extremely frustrated, but perhaps would a

breakthrough, a cease-fire of some sort, even a temporary one, make a difference? >> it's too early to tell on that. you know, this administration, president biden has made it very clear that they do have work to do with the arab population in michigan and other states across the country. this is obviously a very difficult time for them. a lot of these circumstances, of course, are beyond president biden's control. >> i know. >> look, the other thing about michigan that we have to keep in mind is the protest vote has been around for a while. president obama received protest votes in 2012 during his re-election. this is not a new phenomenon to michigan. look, i think governor whit whitmer, of course, was diplomatic. voters have the right to speak out. if a protest vote is something they feel they need to do, that that's perfectly acceptable. >> right. >> we have to also keep in mind, as important as michigan is to both sides during the general election, there's still a lot of time.

president biden's campaign is going to be focused on doing whatever they can to get as many votes as they can. >> in the fourth hour, we'll have governor gretchen whitmer as a guest. we'll be interested in talking with her about that directly, joe. >> yeah. willie, you know, these protest votes, you call it democracy. >> yup. >> we're in a primary. it is a perfect time to send a message to the white house. a perfect time to say, hey, you know, look at us. we've got real concerns. we understand you're doing everything you can to push netanyahu along. we understand, which i think there is a growing realization, if you look at "the new york times" editorial yesterday, that joe biden is moving as fast as possible right now. but this is very understandable. you heard this with hispanic groups from 2009 to january 2017. there was constant criticism of

barack obama as deporter in chief. remember that? >> yeah. >> over and over again, constantly, we're not going to vote for him. why should we vote for him? the obama white house and hispanic americansigured out a way to come together. he ended up doing quite well there. i have no doubt joe biden will, as well. this is just part of the push and pull of american politics. people shouldn't freak out about it. it's february. >> i couldn't agree more about democracy. this is the point of the whole deal. you get a vote. your vote matters. it counts. you send a message right now and tell the president of the united states you don't like the way the war in israel, inside of gaza, is being prosecuted. that's the right of the voters in michigan. we're going to hear them today, jonathan lemire. 10,000, by the way, the number they're trying to get to to uncommitted about the margin in 2016 in the state of michigan. bigger for joe biden in 2020, of

course. yesterday, while eating an ice cream cone, the president of the united states said it looks like we're on the cusp of a temporary cease-fire. it'd be several weeks to allow humanitarian assistance to get into gaza. >> a couple developments seem close in the war in gaza. potentially an agreement to get hostages out, as well as a lengthy cease-fire time before the start of ramadan, the muslim holy month, which begins sometimes next week. in terms of the politics today, the biden campaign is bracing for a significant number of people to vote uncommitted. we saw similar effort in new hampshire, and that one faltered. people were supposed to write in "cease-fire," and it didn't amount to much. biden won big. they think today will be more significant. michigan has a large muslim-american or arab-american population, and there are young voters there, also, angry. there are warning signs for

november. to your point, joe's point, it is only february. this is the moment to have a protest vote. some on the campaign staff worried. even if gaza fades from the headlines, some of those won't come back. they'll simply stay home or look for a third party candidate. in michigan, the biden team may have to get a different constituent to win. we're seeing an emphasis on working class voters, suburban women and the like, and the trump team focusing on black men, thinking that could be an option there. michigan is one of the most important states on the map this november. particularly for the president, it is hard to see a path to victory if he can't pick off michigan along with wisconsin and pennsylvania. >> at the top of the show, we showed you the president of the united states was here at 30 rock yesterday, three floors above us, talking to seth meyers. then the two went downstairs and had ice cream, where the president was asked about this potential cease-fire. >> can you give us a sense of when you think a cease-fire will start, sir?

>> well, i hope by the beginning of the weekend. i mean, the end of the weekend. at least my national security tells me that we're close. we're close. it's not done yet. my hope is by next monday, we'll have a cease-fire. >> seth in the two shot, acknowledging the awkwardness there. they went to get ice cream as the shoot. press shouts questions. he answers them, given it was a strange visual. >> strange visual. the president did all he could do. i must say, also, you know, you know the historical precedent. i mean, you know, december 8th, 1941. fdr was holding an ice cream cone when he talked about a day which would live in infamy. >> you don't see that in film. >> you couldn't see it as much, blended into the wood behind it. black and white, too. go back and look at that today on the google. your google machine. you'll actually see that.

gene, turning now quickly to middle east peace. >> please. >> it is going to be difficult. i think i can do it. here we go, ready? we're going to cut that and post. cut that out, t.j., and this is the part where i get serious. >> edit, yeah. >> two, one, okay. hold on. three, two -- >> please don't. >> so, gene -- >> take your time. >> yeah. >> let's get serious here for a second. what voters in michigan don't see but what will become apparent is the biden administration, the president, the vice president, the cia director, of course, tony blinken, who is always on a plane, jake sullivan, they have all been working around the clock with arab countries in the

region. they have been working with one goal, a two-state solution. actually two goals. a cease-fire, moving toward a two-state solution. and there's a lot that people in michigan and around the country, around the world won't see until it happens, the fruits of the labor. it's all sort of happening, you know, underwater. but we saw, i thought, pretty big news today on the front page of the papers. the palestinian authority's cabinet resigned. what is happening right now is the arab countries that are working with the united states aggressively working to get people in charge of the palestinian authority that are not technocrafts, that can help not only run the west bank but also run gaza after this war is over.

that is a significant step. they need a boss to also step down, and i think we will get there, but there is no doubt, it's not just the united states pressure but it's the united states and our arab allies across the region, all working quietly behind the scenes to one goal. that'll become evidence to all americans as we start to see, again, the fruits of their labor. >> yeah, that's extremely important, the resignations of the palestinian authority cabinet. what they're trying to do is take away benjamin netanyahu's reason or excuse for not moving ahead with negotiations for a two-state solution, which is that there is no legitimate partner with whom to negotiate. we had an argument about the palestinian authority, which has been corrupt and has been large

ly hapless in some ways. you can argue that netanyahu has done everything he can to perpetuate that situation. one wonders if the last thing he'd like to see is an actual functional, non-corrupt palestinian authority that could take charge. >> gene, let's insert here, gene, benjamin netanyahu has been working for years to undermine the palestinian authority. >> exactly. and help hamas. >> exactly, yeah. >> by helping hamas, we're talking about telling qatar, keep funneling hundreds of millions of dollars into hamas. by helping hamas, we're talking about doing everything he can do to make sure that the funding that they discovered in 2018 doesn't get disturbed, that hamas grows in power while the palestinian authority gets weaker and weaker. that is a matter of record.

yeah, he doesn't want there to be a functioning government. he wants to play to the extremists in the west bank that keep setting up illegal settlements. >> setting up illegal settlements and attacking palestinians who live in the west bank. making them live under intolerable conditions. this is a major step, again, behind the scenes. the political problem, the issue here, of course, is one doesn't see what's happening behind the scenes until a result emerges. that takes time. but this is a significant step. the thing about michigan is that, what really distinguished it, the area outside of detroit, dearborn, and not just arab-americans but palestinian-americans are there. there are a lot of people there for whom this is intensely personal, as in familial.

as in my neighbor's family. so that's a heavier lift to get those voters back to the point where they'll say yes, we'll support democrats. we'll support president biden. let's see what happens between now and then. it's february and there's time for events. coming up after the break, we'll talk about, the whole crew, about gene's piece about donald trump's con-man hustle for black voters, connecting with him because of his, quote -- >> forgot to wear the sneakers today. >> didn't get the gold ones? >> i'm sorry. >> we forgot. >> you were going to wear them? >> yeah. >> next time. >> the sneakers. >> next time, guys. >> menthol cigarettes. >> we'll explain why gene thinks it is not going to work. >> i have my menthols.

>> we'll be right back.

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28 past the hour. live look at the white house. sun has yet to come up over we are up and running here at "morning joe." gene, you're writing about donald trump's comments to black voters. it happened last friday in south carolina. as a reminder, here's some of what the former president said at the black conservative federation's annual gala. >> these lights are so bright in my eyes that i can't see too many people out there. but i can only see the black

ones. i can't see any white ones, you see? that's how far i've come. that's how far i've come. i got indicted for nothing, for something that is nothing. they were doing it because it's election interference. then i got indicted a second time and a third time and a fourth time. a lot of people said that that is why the black people like me. they've been hurt so badly and discriminated against. they viewed me as i'm being discriminated against. it's been pretty amazing. i'm being indicted for you, the american people. i'm being indicted for you, the black population. the mugshot, we've all seen the mugshot. you know who embraced it more than anybody else? the black population. it's incredible. you see black people walking around with my mugshot. they do shirts and sell them for $19 a piece. pretty amazing. millions. by the way, millions of these

things have been sold. >> a bunch of racism there on top of a lie about the assault on our democracy. i got indicted for nothing. just for nothing. then they did it again. gene, your piece is "donald trump's con-man hustle for the black vote is not going to work." you took a look at his history little bit. >> that's all you have to do. the first time donald trump's name was in the newspaper was in 1973 when the trump company, it wasn't the trump organization then, it was his father's company, but he'd taken a leading role in the company, and was sued by the justice department for discrimination, for refusing to rent to african-americans. think entered a descent decree, promising not to do it anymore without admitting guilt. that was the first time. then, of course, there was the central park five. the black and latino men who were wrongly convicted of a

brutal rape. he took out full page ads in the new york newspapers, saying, bring back the death penalty. even after they were exonerated by dna, he refused to apologize. he insisted they were still guilty for some reason, even though dna proved they were not and they were all released and exonerated. it goes on and on. his history is one of frank and overt racism, and it is there for all to see. anybody who looks at that is not going to be out buying their trump sneakers. >> yeah. michael steele, you remember the first time around. what do you have to lose? >> yeah. there is something resonant about that. in politics, it's a question that you could ask any audience.

i think to gene's point, the reality of it is with trump, there is nothing there substantively because of his own history that would tell me i would have something to gain with him. that has been proven time and time again. as you listen to, you know, him talk to black people, as if they're not there. when i hear him say, the black people, it reminds me of some 1950s redneck. >> exactly. >> who is referring to them, other. even though they're in the room. when you say, you know, these lights are so bright, and i can only see the black people. >> right. >> oh, my gosh. >> it's the black population. >> i don't want to make too much of it because, you know, it is what it is, it is donald trump, but it also says a lot about the

narrative that he puts out there. that he thinks so little of the black community. that he can get our vote with, you know, giving us greater access to menthol cigarettes and a nice pair of gold sneakers. and i'm happy you wear my mugshot on your t-shirt pause you can identify with me because most of you are in the criminal justice system. that is his narrative to the community. nothing about health care disparities in black neighborhoods. nothing about the educational disparities in black neighborhoods. >> maternal mortality. >> the mortality rate among black women and babies. nothing about fair housing or red lining that goes on in black communities. they come up with, oh, here is another economic development plan we want to put out that most white people benefit from. because there are no resources put into black entrepreneurism,

seriously put into black entrepreneurism, through the black economic engines that exist with those creating jobs or trying to. joe, the whole thing for me is more of the wandering bs that this iteration of the republican party think they can get away with. >> right. >> that's enough to go in front of black people, refer to them as the black people, and say, you got your sneakers and your menthols. >> reminds me of ross perot. he was going before the naacp, and he made sure everybody knew before the speech, i wrote this speech myself. he kept referring to his audience as "you people." that didn't go over so well. >> no. >> didn't have the right touch. nor does donald trump who, remember in 2016, said, where's

my african-american? he was at the rally and found one black guy in the crowd and pointed to him. yet, donald trump, despite this ham fisted approach, trump people still think they're going to increase the black vote for donald trump. in michigan and other states, it's like a corner stone. they talk about it all the time. i had campaign officials telling me, i'll bet he'll get 20% of the black vote in 2020. i was like, yeah, i'll take that bet. it's not going to happen. you look, again, this talk is ceaseless. oh, donald trump appeals to black men more. he got about 6% to 8% according to ap vote cast in 2016. he got about 6% to 8% in 2020.

unchanged. i bet he'll get 6% to 8% in 2024. yet, the mainstream media talks about this constantly, just like they used to talk about, oh, well, you know, donald trump did have the greatest economy. no, he didn't. in fact, he was behind jimmy carter in gdp growth. behind six other presidents since 1960. it is this garbage that is repeated so much, that actually people, even in the press, pick it up and take it as gospel. >> the trump people and trump himself have always been very good about spinning narratives and selling stories that, yes, some in the media buy. they've been talking for a while that trump would do better with black voters, particularly black men. it didn't happen in 2020. they're making the case now. because of the indictments and the mugshot. trump advisors said to me, because of the sneakers. because donald trump gets his name dropped in rap lyrics. the sneakers and rap lyrics are signs, they think, that will

lead to more black voters coming for donald trump. now, the biden campaign acknowledges they need to do better, not because the black voters might go to trump but they may stay home. there is a sense across lots of demographics that there is unhappiness with this choice. certainly, this is part of what the re-election team's challenge is going forward. in states like michigan and pennsylvania, turning out the voters in, say, pittsburgh, philadelphia, they know they need to do that in order to add to the margins they feel good about in the suburbs because of trump's overwhelming strength in the rural counties in the key battlegrounds. >> 2020, mika, joe biden got 87% of the african-american vote. slipped 2% from hillary clinton who got 89% in 2016. one note, joe brought up the 2016 rally moment in california where donald trump said, look at my african-american. look at him. that man is gregory chytil.

couple years later, he left the republican party and became an independent because of donald trump. >> okay. there you go. full circle. coming up, we're looking at the misinformation that was spread by donald trump and maga republicans during the last presidential election. it is a topic in the new book from former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquade. she joins us next on "morning joe." ♪ voya ♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. presentation looks great. thanks. voya provides tools that help you make the right investment and benefit choices. so you can reach today's financial goals. that one. and look forward to a more confident future. that is one dynamic duo.

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that's a cool picture and i'm told it's real, no cgi. 6:42 in the morning in "new york

times." michigan was a hotbed of conspiracy theories a height of the stop the steal movement during the last presidential election. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade talks about the role of disinformation in our election process in her new book titled, "attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america," out today. barb joins us now. congratulations, it's pub day. >> thank you, willie. really excited. >> we've been waiting and now it's here, we have the book in our hands. you live in michigan. you understand it well, about the confluence of a primary election today and the disinformation we've seen, particularly in the last election. as we said earlier, it wasn't actually particularly close this time. it was 150,000 vote spread in 2020 as opposed to 2016 when it was much closer. yet, you had this big movement inside the state to overturn the results of the election. how did disinformation play into that? >> in michigan, there were

allegations that there were votes that flipped from biden to trump with the mail-in ballots. there were stories of bringing, you know, suitcases full of ballots to the counting center, which was at the time called the tcf center. there were people there arguing they were pounding on the doors, that cheating was occurring. there was no such thing happening. we were fortunate in michigan to have leaders like our governor, gretchen whitmer, and our secretary of state, benson, who have done a wonderful job to try to dispel disinformation and make sure the elections are fair and accurate. >> by the way, at great risk to themselves. there was a kidnapping plot against governor whitmer, and secretary of state benson had threats against her. they persisted through all that. what has changed, in your estimation, as you write in the book, looking ahead to 2024? coming out of 2020, lessons learned to thwart the disinformation? >> already, we are seeing some of the things that donald trump says. the keys to his false claims are repeat, repeat, repeat.

now, what we're hearing about this stolen election is these indictments against him are election interference. the only reason he is being indicted is to allow joe biden to win and for him to lose. nothing could be further from the truth. grand juries, citizens of this country have returns these indictments. if he can convince enough people that this is all a plot to throw the election, that can help him by undermining public confidence. if he can just get people to stay home, that is another way that he can win. discouraging people from showing sup a strategy. >> barbara, that's where i wanted to go with you. disinformation leads to voter suppression. the idea of fake robocalls or schemes saying the election is this day rather than this day. you don't need to vote, stay home. how do we as a media but your average voter, how do you combat that and get through that? >> i think it is really important there be accurate information in the media. also to encourage people to look at credible sources of information, like their

secretary of state's website opposed to looking at text messages you might see online. in addition to fooling people about the election, there is an effort to sow discord in social media or online elsewhere to discourage people from showing up always together. robert mueller wrote about a fake online account called blacktivist which was patient leading up to the election and attracted a lot of voters who thought this was a real, grassroots, black activist. as election day approached, told people to stay home, don't vote, speak with your feet by staying home. send a message. just that suppression can have an effect on the outcome of the election. >> donald trump raised the stakes to the point where this is a war, in effect. they're trying to keep me out of the white house. he is using lies to make the case, but we've seen people go to the capitol in michigan with ar-15s, confrontations with police officers. there is a militia movement

inside michigan. what are the concerns there about the next step from disinformation, which is, these are high stakes, we have to resort to violence to get donald trump back in the white house? >> one of the things that donald trump and his supporters have done is normalize violence. i talk about this in the book, sarcastic terrorism. people say, we need to achieve this by any means necessary. you know there is someone out there who is going to hear that message and take the law into their own hands. you may not know who or when, exactly who it is, but we've seen this before when donald trump talked about the fbi planting evidence at mar-a-lago. we saw a man storm the fbi office in cincinnati. we had the man with the hammer at nancy pelosi's home. we've had people outside the home of jocelyn benson, our secretary of state. as you mentioned, the plot to kidnap gov november whitmer. it is dangerous when people suggest the ends justify the means. we have to calm everybody town and bring calm to the chaos.

>> donald trump certainly doing the opposite of that, mika. he wants chaos, not calm. >> well, and you hear it all the time. he doubles down, triples down on his lies. they often don't go corrected or contradicted, depending on who is covering him. how do you get this book in front of audiences who are victims of disinformation? >> it is important, mika, to not just preach to the choir. i'm doing a lot of work to reach out and speak to civic groups, rotary clubs, and other organizations where you might have an opportunity to reach across the aisle. also, i think it is really important not to be lecture peo them feel embarrassed or duped. i dealt with this a lot with fraud victims. when people are victims of fraud, they feel embarrassed or shamed they fell for the con. by reaching across the aisle, by helping people understand what's happening and expose these lies,

we can lift people up by not shaming them but empowering them. >> important book, the story of our time. barbara mcquade, the new book "attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america," is on sale today. congratulations. great to see you. >> congratulations. ahead, we'll speak with "vanity fair's" molly jong-fast, who says mike johnson is way over his head. she breaks down the speaker's job performance and why his problems could be bigger than a government shutdown. michael bennett will be our best following his trip to ukraine where he met with president zelenskyy. "morning joe" is coming right back. i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised.

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♪♪ the city of dreams, los angeles. you know, you go through, you have douglas fairbanks, you have your lauren olivier. i mean, charlie chaplin. mika. >> yes? >> it is hard to say this because i get emotional about it. >> uh-huh, yeah? >> i've known him for so long. he's like a member of the family. >> i know. >> to see -- >> our boy. >> to see our boy hit the big time. hold on a second. >> our baby. >> hold on.

>> it'll be all right, honey. it's all right. >> i'm going to sweat. >> make sure there is not a tissue sticking to your face because i'm not there for you. right there, he always has, yeah. that, wipe it off. >> tell people other things as i'm trying to connect with willie. i'm trying! >> such a sweet child. >> he's a sweet child. but he's hit the big time in the usa. >> i know. >> he is our honey pie. here is a clip from "curb your enthusiasm," to give you a little idea of what i'm talking about. >> i'm jelly. >> i think this is going to work pretty well. you and i will talk in the interview, be loose, you tell your story. >> like this, okay. >> we can do it here. there's beautiful space. >> okay. >> talking to a bunch of people. everybody has something to say about you. although, one person called you an [ bleep ].

>> who? who called me an [ bleep ]? >> do it in here. >> who? >> fire. >> who called me an [ bleep ], curious. >> larry, we're not going to do this, okay? i don't give up my sources. you need to represent my journalistic integrity. >> where is the integrity of calling me someone called me an [ bleep ]? is there integrity here? >> small part of a larger story. i have to tell the full picture. >> it is a universal fact that everybody is called an [ bleep ]. i'm sure mother teresa was called an [ bleep ] by someone. >> i doubt that, larry. >> somebody must have said, she's so good. she's so good. what an [ bleep ]. look at ms. perfect, helping the lepers. come on. >> i'm not giving you the source so we can drop it, larry. that's it. that's it. >> all right. you know what? you don't have to give me the source. i know who it was. ted denson. i saw that. >> no. >> that's a tell. it was a look away. >> it's not, that's a let's move along. that's it. it's not ted. that's all i'll say. >> okay. forget it. i know who it was.

i can't believe it. >> who do you think it is? >> it was troy. the deaf actor at the club. >> the guy who won the oscar for "koda?" >> yeah, i hit him with a golf ball because i couldn't yell fore. >> did he sign to me you're an [ bleep ]? >> totally, yeah. >> larry, let me ask you a question as long as we're talking about the club. >> sure, yeah. >> are you disgruntled? >> disgruntled? >> yeah. >> you know about disgruntled? >> when a guy puts a note on the locker room door and there's a fight inside the club, there's something there. >> i am most certainly not disgruntled with a capital d. i'm disgruntled with a small d, willie. how could you be a human being and not be small d. disgruntled? >> you're coming at me with big d disgruntled energy. >> little d all the way. >> you sure about that, larry? >> yeah, i'm sure.

♪♪ >> okay. >> i mean, mika. [ applause ] >> very good. >> where are the emmys? >> when are the emmys? i have to rent a tux. >> is that rando on the waterfront? hoffman and meryl streep? look at him. he owns the screen. it's like nobody else is there. sorry, larry. willie, this is -- this is your new career, my son. this is your future. >> i don't want to give away too much of the plot because people watch it all week, but let's just say i was there for a couple days. as i watched on sunday night, i was surprised at how much they actually used.

it's a lot of me in the episode. but it was -- as you know and have seen, to go there and be on that set and watch behind the scenes in person the genius, truly the genius that is larry david and his executive producer and director jeff shafer, a writer on "seinfeld," his right-hand man. to watch them cut a tape, then lean in and say, what do you said this, did this? there is so much ad lib on the show. it was truly just like a pure honor and privilege to even be there. >> so fun. >> let alone to show up on the episode. >> that's great. >> completely eclipsed larry. >> little d. >> yeah. >> little d dominant. >> big d dominant to me. i don't know. >> amazing. >> congratulations. i can't wait to watch that. really good. >> it was fun. >> the season is amazing. >> i know. >> isn't it, mika? >> i have started watching.

i couldn't believe it. i had forgotten we did that. today is primary day in michigan. donald trump finds himself facing another potential legal hurdle. the manhattan district attorney asked for a gap order in the former president's hush money case before the trial next month. it comes hours before polls open in michigan where trump is taking on nikki haley days after beating her in a landslide in her home state of south carolina. senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: former president trump facing another potential legal battle, and alvin brag asking for a gag order, preventing trump from commenting on prosecutors, witnesses or jurors to protect the integrity of the upcoming trial where he is accused of falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to a porn star. the republican frontrunner slammed the case as a political

effort by the d.a. to derail his presidential campaign. all as nikki haley ramps up her attacks on mr. trump. >> donald trump is now turning the republican party into his playpen. >> reporter: haley in michigan after a landslide defeat in her home state of south carolina. now, a key conservative group created by the billionaire koch brothers says it'll stop donating to the haley campaign, writing, we don't believe any outside group can make a material difference to widen her path to victory. the former president having won the first four contests by wide margins is looking ahead to the general election. >> we're going to look at joe biden and look him in the eye. he is destroying our country. we're going to say, "joe, you're fired." >> reporter: the primary in michigan is high stakes not just for haley but president biden who is facing backlash over the israel-gaza war. >> free palestine. >> reporter: arab-americans have

demanded the president support a cease-fire. some plan to vote uncommitted in protest. >> my direct message to president biden is that you cannot continue to use my american tax dollars to aid and abet an ongoing genocide of my people. >> reporter: president biden said he hopes for a deal to release the hostages held by hamas soon. >> my hope is by next monday, we'll have a cease-fire. >> reporter: governor whitmer is a co-chair of biden's campaign. what if uncommitted has a strong showing in this primary? >> i think there will be a sizable number of votes for uncommitted. it is every person's right to make their statement about what's important to them. >> reporter: whitmer now under pressure to deliver the state for president biden, and she brushes off voter concerns about his age, saying the president could serve until he is 86. >> he's got an incredible amount of accomplishments done, and i have every confidence in his ability to serve out a full second term. >> reporter: should alarm bells

being going off in michigan? >> it's a state you can't take for granted. >> reporter: what do you say to those in the democratic party who would like a younger candidate, such as yourself, to replace president biden? >> the train is out of the station. get on board. >> governor whitmer will be our guest later on in the show. jonathan lemire, eugene robinson, michael steele, and adrienne elrod are still with us. joining the conversation, we have special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. and special correspondent for "vanity fair" and host of the "fast politics" podcast, molly jong-fast, msnbc political analyst. looking ahead to michigan, katty kay and then adrienne, what are you looking for? are some of the concerns we talked about here, given the war with israel, a big issue for president biden? >> look, i think grief runs in concentric circles. for people who are living in michigan, who are arab-american, who are palestinian-american, who have actually family members

in gaza, this isn't going to go away soon. there are lots of groups disinfected with joe biden at the moment who may come back to vote for democrats in november. if you've lost a mother, father, grandparent, or a child, it takes a long time. they're not going to forget what's happening in gaza quickly. i'm hearing it from arab-american friends and palestinian friends. this is deeply personal to them. you may well see the largest group of uncommitted voters. i don't think the voters are going to necessarily vote for donald trump, but it could be they stay home in november. all the groups who are suggesting they aren't happy with joe biden, that is the group. because michigan is an important state, that's the group the white house should be most worried about. >> adrienne, the white house is trying to shift and deal with an unwieldy partner in israel with netanyahu a difficult challenge for biden. how is the administration doing in terms of trying to counter

these very deep resentments and feelings among arab-american voters? >> it is important to know that i taking a two-track process here. you have jake sullivan, tony blinken, some real seasoned veteran pros who are traveling to the middle east constantly, doing behind the scenes diplomacy. the administration, the campaign is trying to reach the voters and have at least a dialogue going on. i think we'll see what happens in michigan today. it'll give, number one, the campaign a road map to determine, you know, where are the voters? are we able to get them in our corner? it is also important to know, as we talked about the previous hour, the protest vote in michigan, this is not a new phenomenon. there were protest votes against barack obama in 2012. this is something that happens in michigan every cycle. i think it'll give the administration, the campaign, a road map to determine where they are with the voters and what work needs to be done between here and november.

they're not going to go vote for trump, we don't believe that to be the case. especially the person who said he'd enact a muslim ban the first six weeks in office. what work we have to do, this will give a road map. >> he also talked about a muslim registry. he tried to, you know -- he was campaigning, talking about how he was going to force every muslim in america to enter their name in a registry just like the jews in the 1930s. jonathan lemire, a long way to november. for good reason, because a lot of it is classified, but a lot of arab-americans who are rightly upset and concerned about the direction of this war, don't know now but we'll probably know later, the

constant work the biden administration has been doing. not only trying to push benjamin netanyahu to stop the wide spread attacks in gaza and giving up on him for the most part, but also working feverishly day in and day out since this crisis began, with arab leaders to work toward a two-state solution. where palestinian leaders can live with digdignity. >> biden administration saying the two-state solution has to be the end result, despite netanyahu's protests. it is difficult to prove a negative, but bidn aides have been clear, they've restrained the israeli response. were it not for the tireless efforts of secretary of state blinken, national security adviser sullivan, and others, that israel would have hammered gaza that much harder, and the

civilian death toll would have that much higher. in addition to the public protests we're seeing from the administration, trying to get israel to reign it in. there's hope, and we underline that, hope, a cease-fire and hostage deal could be a few days away. we have been there before, and the previous talks have broken down. we shouldn't bank on it just yet. in terms of michigan, particularly with the arab-american and muslim-american population, to the point just made there by katty and others, there's a lot of anger in the community. there is a sense from the biden team that even if the gaza war slips from the headlines, all the voters aren't coming back. they're not voting for trump but maybe won't come for biden. they'll stay home or find a third party candidate. there has to be repair work. there's talk of a presidential visit to michigan before too long to begin that process. willie, they know it'll be hard. they've looked at trying to piece together other coalitions in the state. a key battleground in november.

>> molly, think about 10,000 votes in the scope of a presidential election. doesn't sound like much. go back to 2016, that was the spread in michigan. this is a powerful, significant voting block. as we said last hour, it is early in the process. these voters want to send a message to president biden. things could change. maybe there will be a cease-fire. hopefully the war ends by november. certainly something this biden campaign is paying close attention to. >> for sure. they should. they're democrats so they're freaking out, right? that's the brand, is democratic freakout. that's what we talk about. but michigan is a really interesting state because you do have the three women running the state. they have really -- it is an interesting state because you have a lot of womenelected, then you have a diverse group of people. everyone from the michigan militia, right, to, you know, for cosmopolitan cities.

it's too soon to know on michigan. we talked about cease-fire, signaling from the president that as early as monday, there could be a temporary cease-fire. president biden will meet with congressional leaders today over government funding for aid and funding to israel. biden is set to urge them to pass it in a timely manner, as government funding is set to expire four days from now. no deal has been announced. lawmakers say there's progress been made, but it's been slowed by far-right house republicans trying to inject so-called poison pills into the bills. senate majority leader schumer is making clear the responsibility is on house republicans to avoid a shutdown. meanwhile, punch bowl news reporting senate whip john thune says congress may need to pass a stopgap bill to keep the government open. 11:30 this morning, oval office meeting between the leadership of the country, frankly. what do we expect to see? >> not much. there's not much optimism of a

deal being brokered today. both sides will make their cases. it is a chance for president and speaker johnson to spend time together. they have next to no relationship. white house aides have been baffled by johnson throughout his time in office. they didn't know him when he first took the speakership. senior white house aides called over to the hill to say, we don't know this guy. let's ask our lawmakers that we know, republicans, democrats alike, what they think of him. none of them knew him either because he's been an enigma. there are two deadlines. the first government funding deadline is this friday. it is a smaller one. there is an expectation probably going to shut down a couple agencies. the bigger one is the following week, march 8th. that would lead to significant shutdowns and real pain. there is a hope that that can be avoided. there may be a continuing resolution passed for a couple of weeks. even that for speaker johnson might endanger his job. there are some on the far right that want a government shutdown. they want to score political points that way. of course, the undercard here is

the ukraine funding. so vital. kyiv saying they're running out of ammunition. we'll hear from the white house saying, again, this has to be brought to the floor. it'll pass if it does. there is a sense that right now, speaker johnson isn't going to, and it'll have to wait until the government shutdown situation is resolved first. >> molly, your new piece is "mike johnson is way over his head." molly writes, "it seems that maga mike is learning firsthand that being speaker is a much harder job than it looks, with johnson trying to lead a caucus seemingly more focused on impeachment stunts and further restricting abortion access than keeping the government open. perhaps electing an inexperience ed zealot in line wasn't the brightest idea. they let trump call the shots. he has a long history of picking people who kissed the ring but weren't good choices. just ask senator mehmet oz or senate herschel walker or senator blake masters or governor kari lake. fealty to trump may be a

prerequisite to republicans to land the job, but it doesn't mean they can do it." failures, not knowing how to count the votes, bringing votes to the floor and losing them in a very humiliaing way. also, there's this question of ukraine, calling for something to be done at the border. senate puts together a bipartisan package on the border. still he won't take it up because donald trump told him not to. >> he says it is dead on arrival before reading it. lemire has a really good point here, right? nobody knew him because he was, you know, fifth or sixth in charge. even democrats in leadership were shocked they got that far down the list, right? scalise, emmers, there were a lot of other people who had some leadership experience. they all got rejected by trump. ultimately, trump put in the guy acceptable to him because of his work in the 2020 election. he is an election denier. that doesn't make you a gifted legislator. >> michael steele, might johnson

may be in over his head, but is he going to be the guy, or are republicans going to stand in the way of history for ukraine? >> more than likely, yeah, at this point. johnson doesn't have control over the caucus or negotiations, actually, with the president. jonathan is exactly right. the meeting at the white house is basically going to be jonathan reciting the unworkable, undoable talking points coming from his caucus. he is caught between that and the real work of governing the country at a time, as we noted, there are two very important deadlines regarding the nation's budget and fiscal health. then you've got the broader question about our work and support for allies. while he has a caucus telling him, putin, putin, putin.

at the end of the day, the question speaker johnson has to ask himself, do i value my job more than the work on behalf of the country? right now, his answer is he values his job more than he values the country. >> isn't that crazy? it appears to me it is impossible to be speaker of the house now and last more than a few months. you simply can't. if you're going to do the work of governing the country, they're going to bounce you out. maga is going to bounce you out. marjorie taylor greene will go crazy. chip roy is not going to fund anything. you're going to lose your job. aren't we in store, ideally, for a succession of speakers who get to a point where he has to bring something to the floor? he has to keep the government open. he gets bounced out, then we get a new speaker? >> the politics is what is

driving the caucus. it's the own the lip mentality. if the government shuts down, it's joe biden's fault, right? if nothing is happening on the border, it is because of joe biden. >> even though they passed on the border deal. >> that's the problem. narratively, it doesn't work. the country is going, senate democrats and republicans negotiated, you know, a deal here. you rejected it. >> you have president biden on the offense on immigration now, too. the administration is leaning into the narrative, which is accurate, that republicans are blocking any kind of deal. >> he has to hold on to it, yes. he is headed to the border today, actually. joe, jump in. on thursday. >> i wanted to talk to michael steele. michael, you always have people warning you against listening to anecdotal evidence, believing it. i can tell you, you know, first five doors i knocked on in my first race for congress, four of the five people said they were concerned about the same issue. i didn't take polls.

i knew what issues were mattering to people. anecdotal stuff matters. on the border, i had the most fascinating conversation with a huge supporter of donald trump. he went down one issue after another. after 10:00, i don't talk politics. football, baseball, whatever. but this guy just went on one issue after another after another. he finally got to the border. i said, the border? i broke my silence. i was like, the border? excuse me? do you want to talk about the bill? he goes, no, no, no. let's move on. i guarantee you, that is the first time a republican in the continental united states has begged to push on from a debate over the border in years. the american people are not as stupid as donald trump thinks they are.

>> nope. >> the american people are not as stupid as mike johnson thinks they are. the american people are not as stupid as house republicans think they are. they know a border deal is in place. even donald trump's supporters know, a border deal was in place, and they passed on it. they said, let fentanyl flood into the country. let illegal immigrants flood into the country for the next year. we don't want a solution. i saw it anecdotally with a trump supporter knew everything trump ever did or didn't do and didn't want to talk about it. for good reason because there was no ground to stand on when it comes to the border. >> exactly the point right there. there is no ground to stand on because the republican caucus and mike johnson took it away from candidates that will be running this fall, from the messaging that they want to put out there generally to, you know, narrate against the biden administration. then, joe, you put on top of

that the two deadlines on the budget in front of them. they seriously think that when they shut the government down, as mika noted earlier, something they want to do, that, somehow, joe biden and the country will look and go, it's your fault. >> no. >> doesn't work that way. >> america, the nation's budget originates in the house. it doesn't originate at the president's desk. it originates in the house. the reality of it is, they control the budget narrative. if they shut the government down, it's on them. if they keep the border open, it's on them. >> go ahead, joe. >> let me say this, mika. as someone who still remembers the political scars from '95 and '96, and other republicans said this, republicans always are blamed for government shutdowns. mike johnson and republicans in the house understand. republicans are always blamed

for government shutdowns. go ahead. make joe biden's day. >> i think because we're also in the age of disinformation, they can just say things that are not true. so you have republicans going all over networks that will take them, lying about the border and saying it is all joe biden's fault right now. even though the republicans passed on a strong border deal. i hope you're right. i hope there are consequences to actions. it feels like they just lie. >> you have fact checkers. we have seen what neil cavuto and others have done. that information gets out there. the information gets out there. if you're not looking for -- adrienne, there are some people that are just never going to be moved off of donald trump or joe biden on the other side. it is, though, the undecided.

it is the independent voters. that's what matters the most. they're undecided voters for a reason. they don't just watch one network or another. >> right. >> they're a little more disengaged right now. when they do focus, they're going to see that republicans passed on the toughest border security bill ever according to republicans. >> that's right, joe. if you are an undecided voter and thinking long and hard about what you're going to do, who you're going to vote for, how you're voting in the upcoming election, you're starting to think about it. maybe early summer i don't you think about it more and more. past labor day when you start collecting information from reliable sources, by the way, to make your determination. when you are doing that, you are looking at all the facts and saying, wait a minute, the republican party was so focused on running on the border, running on, you know, protecting the border and trying to run on immigration.

yet they passed on something, the most historic piece of legislation in ten years, where democrats and republicans came together. again, i look at this election through the lens of, what are the independents, the switch voters, where are they going to go? my money is they'll vote for the guy who at least ties to work with republicans to get immigration passed. tried to work with republicans on a number of other issues. the republicans are the ones blocking the progress because they don't want to give joe biden a victory or a win in a really important election year. >> they want to save it for themselves. >> we have a congress who has done nothing. there has been headlines that congress has done nothing. approval rating is at 15% at the moment. >> they've gone after hunter biden. >> who controls the house of representatives? republicans. when they get tagged with not doing anything, there the biden administration can say, we stacked up a lot of programs. if we're only targeting the independent voters, it'll have

an impact. >> when democrats were in control of the house, we got four major economic bills passed, put the first black woman on the supreme court, got a lot done. >> adrienne elrod, thank you so much for coming on this morning. molly jong-fast, thank you, as well. we'll be reading your new piece online for "vanity fair" right now. coming up on "morning joe," we'll talk to michigan governor gretchen whitmer about today's primaries in her state. plus, donald trump is the first former president to face criminal indictments. our next guests are nyu law professors who compiled a handbook for anyone following the trials this year. andrew weissmann. we need a workbook. we need the book. it's straight ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. here's to getting better with age.

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good afternoon. >> good evening. >> thank you for joining us. >> donald trump was arraigned on a new york supreme court indictment. >> the citizens in the southern district of florida. >> here in the district of columbia. >> a fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment. >> 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. >> with felony violations of our national security laws. conspiring to defraud the united states. >> criminal racketeering, enterprise to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> we, today, uphold our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stands equal before the law. >> we have one set of laws in the country, and they apply to

everyone. evidence can be tested in court and judged by a jury of citizens. >> we look at the facts, law, and bring prosecutors. >> three prosecutors, four jurs jurisdictions, 91 counts, donald trump facing legal trouble as he seeks to take back the white house. the hush money payment trial set to be march 25th. the prosecutor requesting a gag order against the former president. alvin bragg's office stating in a court filing, trump's previous attacks against judges, court juries, and staff post an imminent threat to the orderly administration of this criminal proceeding and a substantial likelihood of causing material prejudice. the criminal charges against trump are the subject of the new book titled "the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary." joining us are the co-authors. msnbc contributor and stokes professor at new york university school of law melissa murray.

and nbc news legal analyst and former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann. great to see you both. boy, do we need this book. there's a lot to keep track of. the fact this book exiss is a commentary on the historic nature of what is happening. the man who was president and wants to be president again. melissa, take a step back and what you wanted to accomplish with this book, which is walk us through it again and explain what it all means. >> so we are law professors, then we come on at night on msnbc and explain the law to your viewers. this is a moment where americans will be watching the trials. they may not have law degrees and how do they make sense of the indictments? how do they make sense of the unprecedented times? we wanted to collect the indictments to granularly explain what is going on in the trials, what the indictment charges mean, and relate it back to their own understanding of what these historic times mean

for them as they go to the ballot box in november to likely weigh in on whether or not a jury of peers are going to accept this person as their president going forward. >> it is difficult enough for us, andrew, who cover it, and you as a brilliant legal analyst, i'm sure, to keep track of all this. people living their lives go, i know there were two things going on in new york. businesses and the hush money payment. there's georgia. then you have the federal cases. it's a lot to wade through. >> exactly. the idea is you have this manhattan case starting. turn to the chapter and read, here are the charges. what do they mean? what is the language? how do you put it in context, so you have this, who are the people? the cast of characters. there's an important moment right now. what is happening in the courts is so relevant to what is happening in the real world. as melissa said, this is decision everyone has to make.

our job, as we do daily, is to demystify the process so people can dip in and say, i understand what's going on. >> professor murray, let's turn to some of the cases and let's start with the one that is on the horizon. the new york case, the hush money case. a month away from starting. what are some of the things you have in here we need to know? >> i think one thing that is really interesting about the new york manhattan d.a.'s case is it is a boost for what comes later. alvin bragg has begun talking about it in this way, as well. this is about a species of election interference. paying someone hush money in order to keep an indiscretion, not only from your wife but also from the american electorate. that's what is alleged in the indictment. we connect these dots. it is bigger than the hush money trial tag makes it out to be. this was a situation where you're not only paying hush money, falsifying business records to do it allegedly, but you're also involving a media

titan, "the national enquirer," as part of the catch and kill scheme to keep these indiscretions from the american public. you see this laid out in the manhattan d.a.'s indictment. i'll relate to what comes in the other trials that may also happen. this is a precursor to what is charged in the other indictments. election interference again, only on a broader scale. >> andrew, as you point out in the book, some of these checks are alleged to have been signed while donald trump was in the white house and president of the united states. while his defense team is filing motions and trying to keep stormy daniels and michael cohen off the witness stand, on and on and on, how do you see this playing out? >> what is interesting, when we were writing this, we were noticing that this is about criminality that is charged for before he was president, while he was president, and after he was president. this is an incredible array of crimes. let's take the florida case

where he recently filed another motion saying that he is immune. of course, that happened after he was president. if you think the d.c. case was outlandish, to say i can kill people without being criminally charged for that, he is now saying even after president, i can do it. they're not great arguments but they buy him delay. we're sitting here today waiting for the supreme court to decide whether judge chutkan can give it a green light. that is what he gets even making arguments that are frivolous. one thing melissa and i talked about, even though we're keeping an eye on what will ultimately happen in criminal trials, donald trump now is tells us who he is. by the arguments he is making, saying the president should not

be held to be criminally liable for, you know, killing people, where he can take classified documents and that should be legal. that is telling us now something about who is running for office. >> the immunity question, donald trump effectively said, yeah, i could use s.e.a.l. team six to take out a political opponent and enjoy immuity to do that. >> he said that. it doesn't make a difference among republicans. put that aside for now. andrew, i'm curious. you mentioned that he has this delay tactic. he buys time. do any of these criminal trials pack a consequential punch if convicted in time before the election, or can they all have time be bought on them by the attorneys and delayed and delayed and delayed? >> i think i would say, in the prediction mode, florida and

georgia are ones that i would not put my money on them happening before the general election. i think new york is about to happen, and that is going to go forward. i think d.c., depending on what the supreme court does and the betting is that they're not going to take the case. so that would also allow that case to go forward. leaving aside what happens in terms of whether it is a conviction or not, one of the things that will happen, that obviously donald trump does not want to happen, is there will be facts. facts laid out in court for people to see, for us to cover, so what the public is seeing is not just donald trump's spin and what he wants to say publicly, which can be false. this is one where it'll be incumbent on the government to prove its case, but there will be that daily drill, drill, drill of factual evidence in

both the manhattan case and the d.c. case when that goes. i expect both of those will happen before the election. >> melissa, andrew mentioned georgia. the case has been hired the last couple weeks in whether fani willis split the dinner bill on a trip to belize with somebody, who paid cash for what. taking a step back, the evidence in the case, there is a phone call. >> yeah. >> the president of the united states is asking for the election to be overturned. the secretary of state denying him in his request. we can talk about the fani willis question first. does that hurt this trial? if not, how strong is the case against donald trump there? >> again, it is really important to understand that the ethical accusations, allegations made against fani willis are unorthodox. typically, when you have allegations about prosecutorial misconduct, it is usually about violations with regard to a prosecutor having a relationship with a juror or a litigant or the judge, not with someone else on her own team.

by itself, that was unusual. again, money is fungible. if nathan wade is paying for something and reimbursed, it's not like he got this job to take fani willis to belize. yes, the optics of it are bad. they're intentionally bad because the end game is because this case is so strong, because there is that phone call with brad raffensperger, that this case was actually one that could result in serious criminal time for donald trump and the 18 other defendants. we've seen from the beginning an effort to limit her authority as prosecutor. there was a formal effort to do that. it failed. now, we are turning to this ethical quagmire that's been ginned up. i don't know if it rises to the level of her being removed but it puts chum in the water in georgia that could make it difficult to prosecute this case in front of a jury of 10 men and

women. >> the classified documents headlines have moved closely. there are clearance issues. the former president also drew a trump-friendly judge. what's your assessment and what does the book tell us about that case? does it remain the most open and shut, and also the most tentative because he can make it go away if he's elected again? >> even if there has been a trial, he can tell the justice department to get rid of it. he'd need court approval to do that, but there is limited authority for the courts to say no. i agree that because they're classified documents, there are reasons the case would be slower to deal with the issues. i don't think it justified the pace it has been going on. it's between -- >> glacial.

>> yes. >> it's been very slow. and there are now numerous reasons that have been given to judge canon to keep it on the very slow pace. including, as i mentioned, this immunity argument. though this is conduct that happened after he was president, so there is no claimed immunity because he'll appeal that. the same process we're seeing now in d.c. is something that we can see in florida. there is ample reason for judge canon, if she does what she is continuing to do, to slow walk the case and have a de facto veto on the charges. >> can i say one more thing about this? this is something we talk about in the book. lots of people are wondering, how did he draw judge canon again? that's a factor of politics. there are three vacancies in the southern district of florida. florida has two republican senators. anytime joe biden wants to nominate someone to fill the three seats, there's pushback. the senators won't give their blue slips. the seats remain empty. when this case goes in the

hopper to assign a judge, there's a one in three chance that it is going to be aileen cannon. that's a politics question, and it is something we explain in the book. readers have that background context. >> all this as we wait the supreme court's ruling on the question of immimmunity, which could change everything. "the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary." it is incredibly helpful and on sale now. co-authors melissa and andrew, thank you for being here. >> thank you. let's talk about the politics of these cases. michael steele, i mean, first of all, i don't know anyone who would survive this. >> no. >> there's no precedent for this, for sure. his supporters don't care, and he uses court appearances to drum up more support. given all that, what case are you looking at, are you most interested in? >> i'm most interested in the d.c. case. i think that for foundational republicans about the country

and who we are and how we hold our elected officials accountable. that, to me, is a real, real important case. i get the dynamics of florida, new york, and georgia. georgia, you have, you know, audio tape, and you have, you know, that evidence. that, to me, is one i'm looking at. but i think the most important thing, mika, to your question, is that we find ourselves where we have this actor, this reality tv performance that is twisting the judicial system into knots. with the delays and the provocations and instigations. >> behavior, yeah. >> we're watching it real time. using the court as the quintessential set. it is the ultimate place for the drama to play out.

and how the courts behave here is something else i'm looking at. aileen cannon is an example to me, in my own personal view, of how this gets twisted and goes and wrong way because of the inherent corruption in the process. but the other thing is, when you look at, you know, what judge chutkan and others are doing, you realize they understand they're being twisted but, the same time, they're untying the knots. that's important. >> yeah. >> between that period, between the election of 2020 and inauguration of biden in 2021, the system held, largely because there were a few good people who stood up and made sure the system held. what i'm interested in, gene, is what all of these cases show us about the robustness of the american system. is it robust, or are we relying on a few individuals? i feel this is going to the totality of the cases, how they're handled, if they come to court and if they ever come to

court will give us some indication of that. >> i'd say so far, so good, right? in the post election period. >> i like the optimism on a tuesday morning. >> all these cases went to courts and judges. judges appointed by trump, judges appointed by others. in the end, the truth came out. there was absolutely -- it was established there was no substance to the stolen election claims. we held there. >> given immunity, would you think otherwise? >> yes, i would. it's ridiculous. >> yeah. >> the idea of absolute immunity is ridiculous. i don't think the supreme court will do that. our system is weighted with a thumb on the scale in favor of the defendant. it's supposed to work that way. they're supposed to have -- now, trump is accusing that system is setup, but we're supposed to let

guilty people go rather than imprison innocent people. that's the way the system works. you can play it by delaying things. that's what he is doing. step by step, the judges are, except judge canon, the judges are dealing with that. i think the system is working so far. coming up, the white house is sending the nation's top health officials to alabama today in the wake of the controversial court ruling that upended ivf treatment in the state. health and human services secretary xavier becerra joins us live from birmingham, straight ahead on "morning joe."

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to have little to no experience with ivf, you don't know the layers of fear that are now compounding our ability to have a family, right.

and, you know, this happened in alabama and depending what happens in november, this could be a nationwide situatio trump hasn, already said that h supports a nationwide abortion ban and this is his fault. >> ivf alone, you are dealing with the constant stress of the odds, the shots, the appointments, the changes inhe your body, the hope your body will perform, the hope the procedure wille perform, the he the numbers will land in your direction, the constant waiting and t hoping. i'm wondering if you could answer thiswo question. it's so hard. it's so arguing, as you say. why do you do it? >> because we want a family. we want kids. more than anything. >> that was part of my conversation with amanda, texas residents currently suing the state afterin she nearly died wn doctors delayed giving her an

abortion despite being told her baby would not survive after her water broke. she is now planning to move her frozen embryose out of texas d to fears that providers in the state may stop ivf treatments after alabama's high court ruled that embryoss can be considere children under state law. in response, nearly half of the ivf providers in alabama have paused providing service. just think about amanda's situation. first denied a termination that is t threatening her life. the fetus will not survive, so she hasve to go through that stress, that agony, and then she turns to ivf and this happens. joining us now, secretary of health and human services, xavier becerra. he isvi currently in alabama rit now to meet a with doctors and f patients across the state. thank you, a mr. secretary, for joining us. what are you hoping to

accomplish there? there is a lot of confusion for parents who have embryos that are right now being frozen who wantg to turn to ivf. they don't know if they will be prosecuted or have to do what amanda is doing. >> thanks for having me. as your report pointed out, there is a lot of fear, there is a lotis of confusion. now you don't need to add the politics to add fear, confusion and perhaps prosecution to that mix for someone who simply wants to have a family. that'sav where we are. and that's what happens when you finally connect the dots between the dobbs decision and roe v. wade. many of us said this before. this isn't just about abortion. it's about access to health care. there are millions of families out therens who want to start having their children and they thought they'd be able to use in vitro fertilization who are wondering why am i in the same trap that a woman who is looking for abortion care services or contraception is now facing.

they are not sure what's going on. they are confused. they are a fearful. in some cases, they are thinking of moving out of the state or in this case moving their embryos out of the state. >> mr. secretary, we are focused on ivf because of the alabama ruling, but there are currently three states, i think texas, louisiana, missouri looking, legislators are looking at restricting access to morning-after pill and intrauterine devices as w what more should parents and would-be parents and women in america be afraid of? what other restrictions do you think could happen? >> just as this alabama decision threw everyone to for a loop and broadsided so many false using ivf, that's what could happen again. remember, the rights that we had under roe were stripped by dobbs. where that takes us, now we are seeing certainly well beyond abortion. it couldel easily go beyond ivf.

it's not clear. that's why there are a lot of very fearful, confused families right now. >> mr.us secretary, good mornin. it's not justod alabama. this isn't just a one-off, as you say. i amon looking at the life at conception act co-sponsored by a group of republicans in january of 2023, you had including now speaker mike ijohnson, which ss life begins at conception, which means the embryo is life, the embryo is a child. what are your concerns that this legislatively could be passed through on a national level, ulme of this? >> well, my understanding is that a majority of republicans in the house of representatives have endorsed that legislation, which means that the leadership, the speaker and more than half of his constituents in the house of representatives are for this legislation, which would certainly put at risk not just those inno alabama, but folks

throughout the country if it passes as a federal law. so here we are with the situation where before dobbs, those rights to access care, whether it's in vitro fertilization or abortion care were protected constitutionally by roe v. wade. that'son all gone. who knows where we go. it's a wild, wild west and we have to do everything we can to protectan families. that's why i'm in alabama today. >> mr. secretary, since this decision inre alabama, some republicans have tried to distance themselves from it but as noted that could just be politics, it's an election year. we will see what happens were they to take power. in the interim, in alabama where this is in effect, are there executive ordersre the white hoi administration are exploring? what things can you and your team do to help? >> yeah, we will talk to families todayocks talk to physicians, see if there is something we can do a federal level. the reality is, untilde we rediscover the rights that we had under roe, my daughters, my three daughters will continue to

have fewer rights than my wife has. and it's a chilling thought that we go c back to those days whent was illegal to do things that are good for your health where it is good for your family to be able to plan out in vitro fertilization. it isvi a real fear to believe that you might face prosecution simply for trying to have a family. > secretary of health and human services, xavier becerra, thank you very much for coming on the show today. wexan look forward to hearing happens there. let's bring in now the co-founder and ceo of all in together laurenal lear. lauren, wheren to begin? i mean, the republicans are waffling on this because they realize how bad it is and most of them have or know someone who hasom endured ivf in the quest have a family. and yet this is a direct result of the overturning of roe v. wade. >> in way, republicansur are th dog that caught the car.

this has been orthodoxy around abortion for the last 50 years. these sort of religious-based perception that life beginsgi a conception. it'sat always been the, you kno sort of basis of the anti-abortion movement.ti and now we are seeing the sort of vast consequences of what that means. everything from the woman in ohio who was prosecuted after having had a miscarriage and accused of having aborted the child to now this ivf ruling. and, you know, the idea that the -- the chaos that all of these rulings are creating in terms of the doctors that have to face these life and death choices for women on the brink of death before they are allowed to have abortion in the state of texas andth elsewhere, what happens t embryos, in terms of ivf, i think we are at the very beginning of this and the next step is going to be this question over the birth control,

over the morning-after pill. democrats warned that had was going to happen. i think people didn't take it seriously. now we are seeing these sort of vast unintended consequences of dogma that has o no -- that means -- makes no sense in the real life context. >>al you know, you, we all have daughters, and our daughters are right now growing into adulthood in a world that's completely different than the one we did here in the u.s. where we had protections, where we had rights, where if something went wrong during pregnancy we didn't have tore worry about bleeding out, where ift we struggled to have a family we would have an opportunity to create a family through -- i mean, this is -- >> unimaginable. >> you're right. they head>> for birth control next. my god. i mean, i don't know, michael steele, i feel like the republicans, obviously, own this, and yet we are -- we still have such a tight fight for the white house in the next

election. i don't understand what's going on. >> well, iun think, you know, is a combination of, you know, the politics culture and now sort of the, you know, what we see with a lot of christian nationalism that's being injected into both of those things. so you have now this elevation of a new foundation to injury point, lauren, about, you know, not just catching the car,yo bu now trying to put, you know, a cross on it, you know, a christian symbol in a way y to sort of define how this plays out. the problem is, and ivf is a very good example of it, when you go down that i road, when y open that door and go into that space, what you find is that you have 83% of evangelicals support ivf, all right? do not want what the alabama law proposed. and so now you've got this within the reality of, you know,

the abortion decision, this element that says, okay, now we're going to talk about ivf. wait a minute. hold on. that's not included. well, yeah, it is. yeah, it is. and then you've already got the next card ready to be played on contraception, which justice alito laid out, justice thomas laid out, send us that case. >> oh, final thought, real quick. >> i mean, this is and will continue to be the defining issue of this campaign. it absolutely has to be. and the biden administration needs to continue to prosecute this case. this is such aed uniting issue r peopleue across the spectrum. if we are looking -- if democrats are looking to win back middle of the road, swing voters, independent voters, this is the issue. just as rowhe has been since th dobbs decision, this is so personal for so many americans. keep your government out of my health care, right? the republican talking point or

years. democrats need to own it. >> republicans always get, you know, small government, get the government out of our lives. >> unless it's a women's life. >> all right. co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader, thank you, as always, for coming on. the third hour of "morning joe" continues now. there is a dark brand conspiracy meme. you seem to have a lot of fun withha this. you have co-opted. you have co-opted dark brandon. this is a yard sign. do you enjoy playing around with the meme? >> no, i resent the hell out of it. >> okay. [ cheers and applause ] >> now, my favorite one recently, 18% of americans according to recent polling

believe that you and taylor swift are actually working in cahoots.ns and after the kansas city chiefs won the super bowl, you posted this on social media and wrote, you wrote, just like we drew it up. now, can you -- i have you on the hotup spot. is can you confirm or deny that there is an active conspiracy between you and miss swift? >> where are you getting this information? it's classified. >> classified? >> it's classified. but i will tell you, she endorsed me in 2020. >> she did? so you might be wondering, do you think it might come around again? >> i told you, it's classified. >> okay. president biden embracing the dark brandon meme on "late night with seth meyers." it was his first appearance on the show in 10 years. y biden was a guest as vice president on seth's first episode as a host. good morning and welcome to

"morning joe." it's tuesday, february 27th. how did he do, willie? >> pretty well, i think. he was iny this building, had midtown lockedin up.mi then he headed downstairs for ice cream on the ground floor of the building where as we will see in a minute the president of the united states answered a serious question about israel, for example, while licking an ice cream cone. >> i was l,like, it's melting. this is weird. but he got asked the question, he answered the question. >> it was really strange, yeah. really strange asking these important questions eating ice cream cones. it reminds me of our ill-fated christmas special when we were sitting in christmas clothes on our lastlo show before christma >> christmas clothes? >> called hrin, talking about - christmas pajamas. >> pajamas. >> and donald trump called in talking about nuclear war. a you know, sort of ill-fated. you get your "star wars" christmas special. you get your "morning joe"

christmas special. >> willie, you were off that day. >> were you? >> i think i missed that somehow. >> we did way too early in our pajamas. it's a long story. it's worth not looking back into. >> it's a long holiday tradition for us. i t mean, we have been doing it since the andrew sisters actually have been -- 1946. year after the war. i t think, willie, you were out like, you know, measuring your house. it's a long story. we may have to do that again. i think we need a christmas eve special. no, we do. >> okay. all right. along with joe, willie and me, the hostwi of "way too early" jonathan lemir. pulitzer prize-winning columnist eugene robinson and former chair

of the republican national committee and co-host of msnbc's the weekend, michael steele. they have been educating me and senior aidee to the clinton campaigns adrian elrod on being street smart, which we have discovered we are not. that's all i amed going to say. >> this is not based on louis vuitton. >>ui okay. darn. let's get rightvu to the news. today is primary day in michigan and for the republicans today's results will determine only 16 of michigan's # 5 delegates. the 39 others will be decided saturday during a state party convention. but there will beat competing conventions this weekend because ofee a leadership dispute withi the gop. christina, an election denier, and donald trump supporter, was removed as chairwoman last month following a vote by state party committee members. she has refused to accept the results and still claims to be

the party's leader. see how this doesn't work? >> d hold on a second. are you saying that an election denier denied her own election results? what ar shock. i mean, this is -- it's such a sign of things to come. >> it is. >> i think sometimes you need to step esback, right? sometimes you need to step back and go, why are things happening the way they are? i know we have all seen op-ed's talking about this through the years. but theg republicans have lost seven of the last eight presidential elections when it comes to popular vote. they have been able -- they figured out in '16 how to win. and just barely, and they did it through the electoral college. but, you know, gene, not to get too deep into it here, but i am going to get deep in it here pause it's kinda what i do. if you take away ralph nadener

2000. you take away jill stein in 2016, get this, a republican, a republican would not have been elected president this century. and that's, of course, assuming bush doesn't run in 2004 with re-election. but the republicans have lost the country. they've lost -- you know, they've wonyo one -- this is amazing. since 1992, republicans have won the popularon vote one time. so, what do you do if you know you're going to lose -- you have lost the country. you are not going to change anything. you are just going to deep denying elections and they are trying to perfect it now. >> first thingec is gerrymander the hell out of everything, right, to try to sort of build in an advantage and put your thumb on the scale in every way you can, which the republican party did, and then you still lose. so the only recourse after that is just to say, no, it didn't

happen. i didn't lose. i actually won, even though you lost, and that's -- it is incredible that this is sort of being repeated down the ranks of the republican party and now you havety this situation in michig where the really -- i think this is a term of art, but a complete whacko is claiming to don't be head of the party when it's really hoekstra now, apparently. we'll see. they will a have to duke it out >> so earlier this month, the republican national committee recognized petete hoekstra, who was endorsed by trump as the state's party chairman. he will oversee a convention in grand rapids while caramo is in detroit. former south carolina governor nikki haley was in grand rapids yesterday making a final plea to michigan voters. >> and you look at what's happening, all the early states,

they'll talk about donald trump winning, and he did. i give him that. but what about the fact that in all of the early states, he did not get 40% of the vote? now, donald trump will say, oh, those are all democrats that voted in south carolina. no. less than 5% were democrats. or unaffiliated. those are republicans. same thing in new hampshire. look at iowa. 40% of the vote is not with him. you can't win a general election if you don't get the 40%. and then is he doing anything to help himself? no. he said anyone who supported supported me was barred permanently from maga. [ cheers and applause ]om >> now, think about that. if you arek running for president, your job is to bring asis many people to you as possible, not push people out.y but that's what he's doing, he

is pushing people away from the republican party. >> no doubt about that, michael steele. and this is the trap republicans have set for themselves, is it not, which is they are the party of donald trump, fealty to donald trump, which is enough to win a primary, but not by as much as you expect an incumbent to win a primary, which is what donald trump is, getting 60% of the vote, losing 40% of the vote in south carolina where he is very popular. now they have a candidate who can win thee primaries. no doubt about that. but is rappelling to say the least, even some republican voters, certainly independent voters he needs to win a general election. >> yeah, it's how you grind yourself down as a national party into the dust of nothing because the reality of it is,as joe aptly pointed out, there is no real one ray here to sustain a long-term, you know, growth prospects for the republican party with donald trump as its

made. it spent the last eightpeth yea systematically taking out the leadership thatsy could win, th candidates that could win, are losing in primaries. and michigan is just a recent example of that. you know, nikki making the point about the 40%. a lot of people are dancing on the 40% in new hampshire and in -- where were we just now? >> south carolina. >> thank you. here is the deal. that 40% is not a real number. i mean,be when you have democra and independents voting in the primaryde in a republican prima, you have to -- you have to say something to yourself about, well, where is my base? you know, when 22% of that 40% was actually independents and democrats who were in that -- who vote nikki's south carolina primary. she lost her home state by republicans by a bigger number. the question is how do you translate that into a national campaign for super tuesday. well, guess what? the koch brothers said there's

no there there. they pulled that money out. the reality is donald trump, everything he touches does die. everything he has tried to put in place doesn't work. the revenues rnc is going to be controlled by his daughter-in-law, basically, and, you know, a chairman who of north carolina who is an election denier. out of the 168 members of the rnc, 144 came in under trump. they are all trump's people. so where do you think this party's going to go in succeeding elections? well, the democrats, president biden is expected to easilyde defeat congressman dea phillips of minnesota. his biggest challenge is likely to come from the state's large arab american population. michigan governor and campaign co-chair gretchen whitmer acknowledged a large portion of

the l electorate won't vote for him in his protest and handling of the hamas war. >> i think there will be a sizable votes for uncommitted. i think that it is every person's right to make their statement about what's important to them. >> thest uncommitted organizers said they want at least 10,000 votes. do you think they will reach that? >> i think that'sea possible, yeah. >> this is a challenge given that the war in israel has taken turns that are inexplicable in terms of the losses on the side, the palestinian side. >> yeah. >> i mean, over the top is how president biden put it himself. >> correct. >> there are rumblings that president biden is extremely frustrated, but perhaps would a breakthrough, a ceasefire of some sort, even a temporary one, make a difference? >> well, i think it's kind of too early to tell on that. ito mean, you know, and look, ts administration, president biden has made it very clearis that ty do have work to do with the arab

population in michigan and other states across the country. >> this is, obviously, a very difficult time for them and a lot of these circumstances are beyond president biden's control. >> i know. >> so the other thing about michigan we have to keepnd in md is the protest voeft has been around for a while. president obamaor received prott votes in 2012 during his re-election. this is not a new phenomenon to michigan. but look, you know, i think governor whitmer of course was very diplomatic in her approach to this, made it very clear that voters have the right to speak out and if a protest vote is something that they feel that they need do, that that's perfectly acceptable. we have to also keep in mind as important as michigan is to both sides during the general election, there is still a lot of time and president biden's campaign is going to be very focused on doing whatever they can to get as many votes as they can. >> in our fourthot hour, we wil have governor gretchen whitmer as aen guest. so we'll be interested in

talking to her directly about that, joe. >> yeah. willie, you know, these protest votes, you call it democracy. we are in a primary. it's a perfect time to send a message to the s white house. a perfect time to say, hey, look at us, we've got real concerns. you know, we understand that you are doing everything you can to push netanyahu along. we understand --et which i think -- i think there is a growing realization, if you look at "the new york times" editorial yesterday,rk that joe biden is moving as fast as possible right now, but this is -- this is very understandable. i mean, you heard this with hispanic groups from 2009 to january 2017.y there was constant criticism of barack obama as deporter and chief. do you remember that? >> yeah. >> over and over again, constantly, we're not a going t vote for him, why should we vote for him? andfo you know what? the obama white house and hispanic americans figured out a

way, these groups figured out a way to come together, and he ended up doing quite well there. i have no doubt joe biden will asdo well. but this is just part of the push and pull of american politics, and people shouldn't freak out about it. it's february.t >> i couldn't agree more about your point about democracy, which is this is the point of the whole deal. you get af vote. your vote matters. it counts. you get to send a message and tell the president of the united states youre don't like the way the war is being prosecuted. that's the right of the voters of michigan. we will hear them today. 10,000, by the way, the number they are trying to get to, to uncommitted about theo, margin 2016 in the state of michigan was bigger for joe biden in 2020, of course. but perhaps no mistake that yesterday while eating an ice cream cone the president of the united states did say it looks like we are on the cusp of a temporary ceasefire, which would be ald significant moment to alw

humanitarian assistance to get into gaza. >>nc yeah, a couple of developments that seem close in the war in gaza, potentially an agreement to get hostages out and aem lengthy ceasefire time before ramadan the muslim holy month which begins sometime next week. in terms of the politics today, the biden campaign bracing for a significant number of people to vote up committed. we saw similar effort in new hampshire a few weeks ago. that one kind of faltered. people were supposed to write in ceasefire. they think today will be more significant. michigan has a large muslim american population and young voters there ainge rit.im ire think there are warning sig forar november and there is no question, to your point, joe's point, it's only february. this is the moment to have a protest vote. some on the biden campaign staff worry if the gaza war fades from the headlines.

up, president biden's comments about a potential cease-fire deal between israel and hamas. "morning joe" is coming right back.n ing right back

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♪♪ as we showed you, the president of the united states was here at 30 rock yesterday three floors above us talking to seth meyers. then they went downstairs and had ice cream where the president was asked about this potential ceasefire. >> >> . >> well, i hope by the beginning of the weekend. i mean the end of the weekend. at least my -- my national security advisor tells me that we're close. we're close. it's not done yet.

my hope is by next monday, we will have a ceasefire. >> seth and the two shot acknowledging the awkwardness there. they went to get ice cream as part of the shoot. the press is there. they shout questions. he answers them. given it was a strange visual. >> it was a strange visual. the president did all he could do. i must say also, you know the historical precedent. i mean, you know, december 8th is the most obvious one, 1941, fdr was holding an ice cream cone when he talked about a day which would live in infamy. you couldn't see it as much, right? kind of blended into the wood behind it. yeah, black and white, too. it's one -- but look at that today on the google and your google machine, you will see that. so, gene, turning now, really quickly, to middle east peace, from sheer idiocy it's going to

be difficult, but i think i can do it. i think i can do it. and here we go. ready? okay. so we're going to cut that and post. cut that part out, t.j., and this is the part where i get serious. >> yeah. >> two, one. so, gene -- hold on. three, two -- >> please don't. >> so, gene -- >> take your time. take your time. >> let's get serious here for a second. what voters in michigan don't see, but what will become apparent, is that the biden administration, the president, the vice president, the cia director, of course poor tony blinken, who is always on a plane, jake sullivan, they have all been working around the clock with arab countries in the region, and they have been working with one goal. a two-state solution. actually, two goals. a ceasefire, moving towards a

two-state solution. and there is a lot of -- a lot that people in michigan and around the country, around the world won't see until it happens. the fruits of that labor, because it's all sort of happening, you know, underwater. but we saw -- i thought pretty big news today on front page of the papers, and that is the palestinian authorities cabinet eresigned. what is happening now is the arab countries working with the united states aggressively working to get people in charge of the palestinian authority that are not corrupt, that are technocrats, that can help not only run the west bank, but also run gaza after this war is over. that is a significant step. they need a boss to also step down, and i think we will get there. but there is no doubt, it's not just united states pressure but

united states and arab allies across the region all working quietly behind the scenes to one goal, and that will become evident to all americans as we start to see, again, the fruits of their labor. >> yeah. that's extremely important, those resignations and the palestinian authority cabinet because it -- what they're trying to do is take away netanyahu's, benjamin netanyahu's reason or excuse for not moving ahead with negotiations for a two-state solution, which is that there is no legitimate partner with whom to negotiate. and he had an argument about the palestinian authority, which has been corrupt and has been largely hapless in some ways. you could argue that netanyahu has done everything he can to perpetuate that situation, and

that one wonders if the last thing he'd like to see it an actual functional non-corrupt palestinian authority that could -- >> now, gene, i mean, let's insert here, gene, benjamin netanyahu has been working for years to undermine that palestinian authority and help hamas. >> exactly, yeah. >> helping hamas. we're talking about telling qatar, keep funneling hundreds of millions of dollars no hamas. by helping hamas, we're talking about doing everything he can do to make sure that the funding that they discovered in 2018 doesn't get disturbed, that hamas grows in power while the palestinian authority gets weaker and weaker. that is a matter of record. and so, yeah, he doesn't want there to be a functioning government because he wants -- he wants to play to the extremists in the west bank that keep setting up illegal

settlements. >> setting up illegal settlements and attacking palestinians who live in the west bank and making them live under intolerable conditions. so this is a major step, again behind the scenes. you know, the political problem, the political issue here, of course, is that one doesn't see what's happening behind the scenes until a result emerges, and that takes time. but this is a significant step. think about michigan, what really distinguishes it, that area outside of detroit, not just arab americans shall there are a lot of palestinian americans there. a lot of people there for whom this is intensely personal as in familial, as in my neighbor's family. and so that is a heavier lift to

get those voters back to the point where they'll say, yes, we'll support democrats, we'll support president biden as we always have. but let's see what happens between now and then, as you said. it's february, and there is still time for events. so we'll see. coming up, a new piece about donald trump's so-called con man hustle for the black vote. and why it's not going to work. we'll read from that next on "morning joe." joe."

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so, gene, you are writing

about donald trump's comments to black voters. it happened last friday in south carolina. as a reminder, here issome of what the former president said at the black conservative federation's annual gala. >> these lights are so bright in my eyes that i can't see too many people out there. but i can only see the black ones. i can't see any white ones, you see. that's how far i've come. that's how far i've come. >> i got indicted for nothing. for something that is nothing. they were doing it because it's election interference and then i got indicted a sikd time and a third time and a fourth time. fords and a lot of people said that's why the black people like me, because they have been hurt so badly and discriminated against, and they actually viewed me as i'm being discriminated against. it's been pretty amazing. i'm being indicted for you, the

american people. i'm being indicted for you, the black population. the mugshot, we've all seen the mugshot. you know who embraced it more than anybody else? the black population. it's incredible. you see black people walking around with mugshot. they do shirts and sell them for $19 apiece. millions of these things have been sold. >> a bunch of racism there on top of a lie about the assault on our democracy. i got indicted for nothing. just for nothing. and then they did it again. gene, your piece, donald trump's con man hustle for the black vote is not going to work. and you took a look at his history. >> yeah. >> a little bit? >> that's all you have to do. i mean, the first time donald trump's name was in the newspapers was in 1973 when the trump company, it wasn't called the trump organization then, it was his father's company, but he had just taken a leading role in

the company was sued by the justice department for discrimination, for refusing to rent to african americans. and they entered a consent decree that's promising not to do it anymore without admitting guilt. so that was the first time. then, of course, the central park five, the black and latino men wrongly convicted of a brutal rape. he took out front page, full-page ads in the new york newspapers saying bring back the death penalty. even after they were exonerated by dna, he refused to apologize and insisted they were still guilty for some reason, even though dna proved that they were not and they were all released and exonerated. and it goes on and on. his history is one of frank and overt racism, and, therefore, it's all to see. so anybody who looks at that is

not going to believe, you know, they are not going to be out buying their trump sneakers. coming up, michigan governor gretchen whitmer our guest ahead of today's primary elections in her state. "morning joe" is coming right back. ck here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? so, here's to now. wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that.

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♪♪ michigan will hold the presidential primary today. the swing state would be a key pickup for either candidate hoping to take the oust in the fall. michigan was a hotbed of conspiracy theories at the height of the stop the steal movement during the last presidential election. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade talks about the role of disinformation in the election process her new book.

it's out today. congratulations. it's pub day. >> thanks so much, really excited. >> we have been waiting for this day. it's here. we have the book in our hands. let's talk specifically, you live in michigan. you understand it well, about the confluence of a primary election today and the disinformation we've seen particularly in the last election. as we said earlier, it wasn't particularly close this time. it was 150,000 vote spread in 2020 as opposed to 2016 when it was much closer, and yet you had this big movement inside the state to overturn the results of the election. how did disinformation play into that? >> in michigan there were allegations all over the place that there were votes that flipped from biden to trump with the mail-in ballots. there was stories of bringing suitcases full of ballots to the counting center, which was at the time called the tcf center, people arguing they were poundking on the doors, and cheating was occurring. no such things wag happening.

we are fortunate in michigan to have incredible leaders like our governor greta gerwig and jocelyn benson who have dispelled this information and make sure that the elections are fair and accurate. >> by the way, great risk to themselves. obviously, there was a kidnapping plot against governor whitmer and secretary of state benson also had threats against her. they persisted through all of that. so what has hanged in your estimation as you write in the book looking ahead to 2024 coming out of 2020, lessons learned to help thwart some of that disinformation? >> already we are seeing some of the things that donald trump says, the keys to his false claims are repeat, repeat, repeat. now what we are hearing about this stolen election is that these indictments against him are election interference. that the only reason he is being indicted is to allow joe biden to win and for him to lose. of course, nothing could be further from the truth. grand juries, citizens of this country have returned these indictments.

but if he can convince enough people that this is all a plot to throw the election, that can help him by undermining public confidence. if he can get people to stay home, that is another way he can win. discouraging people from showing up is a strategy. >> yeah, that's exactly where i wanted to go with you. disinformation can lead to voter suppression. the idea of whether it's a folk robocalls or text schemes, saying the election is this day rather than this day, false information, you don't need to vote, stay home, how do we as the media and your average voter get through that? >> i think it's important that there be accurate information in the media. also to encourage people to look at credible sources of information like their secretary of state's website as opposed to looking at text messages that you might see online. but in addition to those direct things about trying to fool people about the election, there is also an effort to just so sew discord in social media or

online elsewhere to discourage people from showing up october. robert mueller called about a fake online account that was patient for many, many months leading up to the election and attracted a lot of voters who thought this was a grassroots black activist and as election day approached told people to stay home, don't vote. send a message. and just that suppression can have an effect on the outcome of the election. >> donald trump, of course, raise the stakes to the point where this is a war, in effect, right, they are trying to keep me out of the white house. he is usinglize to make that case. but we have seen people go to the capitol in michigan with ar-15s, confrontations with police officers. there is militia movement in michigan. what are the concerns about the next step fromdy information? these are high stakes, we have to resort to violence to get donald trump back in the white house? >> one of the things they have done is normalize violence. there is a phrase, i talk about this in the book, when somebody

advocates for violence or talks about we need to achieve this by any means necessary. you know there is someone out there who is going to hear that message and take the law into their own hands. you may not know who or when, but we have seen this before when donald trump talked about the fbi plant be evidence at mar-a-lago. we saw a man storm the fbi office in cincinnati. we had the man with the hammer at nancy pelosi's home. we have had people outside the home of jocelyn benson, our secretary of state, and as you mentioned the plot to kidnap governor whitmer. it's incredibly dangerous when people suggest the ends justify the means. we have to bring calm to the chaos. >> and donald trump doing the opposite tv that. he wants chaos. >> yeah, and you hear it all the time. he just doubles down, triples down on his lies. and they often don't go corrected or contradicted depending on who is covering

him. so i'm curious how you get this book in front of audiences who are victims of disinformation. >> it's important to not just preach to the choir. i am doing a lot of work to speak to sivg groups, rotary clubs and other organizations where you might have an opportunity to reach across the aisle. you know, also i think it's really important not to be judgmental, not lecture people, not to make them feel embarrassed or duped. i dealt with this a lot when i dealt with fraud victims. they sometimes feel embarrassed or shamed that they fell for the con. i think reaching across the aisle, helping people understand what is happening and expose the lies, we can lift people up by not shaming them but empowering them. coming up, with congress at a stalemate over foreign aid and funding we will be joined by democratic senator michael bennett who just visited ukraine last week and met with president zelenskyy. "morning joe" is back in a moment. nt

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♪♪ we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. you have to be thin, but not too thin, and you can never say you want to be thin. you have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin. you have to have money, but you can't ask for money, because that's crass. you're supposed to love being a mother, but don't talk about your kids all the time. never get old, never be rude, never show off, never be selfish, never fall down, never fail, never show fear, never get

out of line. it's too hard, too contradictory. it turns out not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault. >> that was part of america ferrera's iconic monologue in "barbie" about the unfair expectations and pressures put on women by society and themselves. that message hit close to home for many and speaks to a larger attitude towards feminism today. in fact, a new study came out showing an emerging gender divide when it comes to young people's attitudes about masculinity and equality. maggie mcgrath and huma abdein are with us. the 30/50 summit is next week, by the way. more on that in a moment.

maggie, let's talk about this study. it was from kings college london institute and the global institute for women's leadership. they asked participants if they believe women or men have it tougher today. kind of a disturbing trend came out of it about male attitudes. tell us more. >> researchers found that younger men feel less positively about the impact of feminism on society than do younger women and in some cases older men. essentially among people ages 16 to 29, gen z and the youngest millennials, 46% of women say feminism has done more good than harm on society. just 36% of men the same age feel the same way. 1 in 6 men in this age group say feminism has done more harm than

good compared with 1 in 11 women of the same age. this research asked women who has it harder in society, men or women. 68% of these younger women said women have a harder time in 2024 compared with just 35% of men. it was the men over the age of 60 who were the least likely to say men have a harder time in society compared with 25% of men ages 16 to 59. just to zoom out, all of this is really important and interesting because researchers and social scientists generally expect younger generations to have more progressive views. this is an unusual generational trend. >> i'm jen palmieri here getting ready for the fourth hour. >> what's interesting about this is that i did this when i wrote

my book on this topic. what is interesting is that young women are more likely to believe that women have it harder than gen x women or baby boomer women. what i see that's positive about this, the stuff about men that's concerning is younger women watched us and thought we had a hard time. i think it means they're better prepared for what they are facing. they saw "barbie." they know what's happening. >> participants were asked if they believe toxic masculinity was a helpful phrase. tell us more. >> interesting to read some of this research that shows that overall when respondents were

asked if the term toxic masculiity was helpful or unhelpful. 41% of people asked said it was an unhelpful term compared to 22%. when you dive down to younger people ages 16 to 29, 47% of young women believe that the term toxic masculinity is a helpful phrase. i found it discouraging, actually, because it's this idea that you now have this younger generation of men and women who agree on a few things. number one, young men think no more progress needs to be made on gender equality any more than older men. you have younger women who are generally to the left of men on political and gender and party issues.

it's almost as though you have a generation getting all their news from social media. what does this mean in terms of the divide? does that increase as this generation gets older? it's certainly something to watch, and i'm glad these researchers have done this assessment in a way that shows the difference between what older men and women believe and younger men and women. >> we'll be talking a lot about this at our 30/50 summit in abu dhabi next week around international women's day, march 8th. we'll hear from powerful voices including shania twain, suze orman and many more. we're also going to be hearing from an iraqi american who is recognized as one of the most successful women in business in

both the beauty industry and in the arab world. who is she? >> she is mona catan. she's the founder of a perfume brand she launched in 2018. she was an investment banker in 2008, but she became an entrepreneur with beauty being the through line. her passion lies in k alley. she is an authority in perfume. she has a library of more than 4,000 different perfumes and scents she uses for business inspiration. she'll tell us all about that business and so much more. >> and one of the biggest movie stars in india who recently made her english language debut will

also take the stage. >> i can't wait to have ali abat on the stage. she has transcended that divide. she is 30. she is an entrepreneur and a successful interest. she's won the indian equivalent of an oscar. she had this beautiful debut at the met gala last year. she is a real powerhouse who figured out how to not just be successful. if you're familiar with bollywood films, it's such a cultural majestic place to be. her film on netflix was number one for two weeks when it came out in august. she's a mother, she's a climate activist. we have lots of questions we want to ask her next week on

stage. >> we have such an exciting and diverse roster. thank you very much. you can read about all of our 30/50 speakers and learn how to join us at the summit at forbes.com or go to knowyourvalue.com. we are one minute into the fourth hour of "morning joe," 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east. polls are open in michigan, where it is primary day. today's results will determine only 16 of michigan's 55 delegates. 39 others will be decided saturday during a state party convention. there will be competing conventions this weekend because of a leadership dispute within the michigan gop. it's convoluted. >> president biden is expected to easily defeat congressman

dean phillips of minnesota. america's large arab population may not vote for him in protest of his handling of the israel/hamas war. joining us, governor gretchen whitmer of michigan, national cochair for the biden/harris 2024 campaign. it is great to have you back on the show in this capacity. katty kay has the first question for you, governor. >> thank you so much for joining us on this primary day. when you look ahead to the results, what do you think the biden campaign might learn from today's results for how they should go into the november election? talk about that uncommitted vote in your state's arab american community. >> sure. i appreciate the question. this is michigan's first opportunity to weigh in early in

this presidential primary season. it's always kind of mind boggling that we let other states go first when this is the most diverse swing state in the country. elections are always close in the state of michigan, and this year will be no different. it's going to be a close election as we go into november. today i anticipate we will see a sizable number of people vote uncommitted, as we know our huge arab, palestinian and muslim communities are going to voice their opinions with regard to how we're handling what's happening in gaza and israel. we also have a robust jewish community here. these communities have lived in harmony in this state for decades. i'm expecting that president biden will be the victor in today's primary.

and this will be the matchup. it's going to be a stark choice once again. >> what other issues are michiganders challenged by? >> one of the things we know is in michigan we were able to secure reproductive freedom in our constitution. we've expanded reproductive rights. as we see what's happened in alabama, this issue is not over, even here in michigan where we've secured those rights. if there's a second trump presidency, that could mean a nationwide abortion ban and the fundamental rights to make our own choices about our bodies and health care. this is very much at risk for american women and girls and

families on this upcoming ballot. that is something we can't let people lose sight of. >> it's jennifer palmieri. you had the vice president in michigan and grand rapids on friday, a big trust women banner was on this question of ivf. even with the ballot initiative you still had to give guidance to doctors that they could continue to give ivf treatment. i know it's still very much at risk. tell me about the economy in michigan. i know things are going well by almost every measure there. the vice president was the first person to come across the picket line as he did with the uaw strike there. the uaw helps raise wages.

how are people feeling about the economy? is the president getting any credit for it? >> there are so many great positive signs about the strong economy coming out of covid and supply chains, the chips act, the ira. these are incredible historic things the biden administration was to able to get done. fix the damn roads. we're doing that work. we're seeing battery plants being built here, five in michigan alone. this is about the future of our economy. this is about lowering costs for people and this is about good-paying jobs. this president walked the picket line with the uaw, which was able to get a historic contract for its men and women members. i think this is a moment in time where you see another striking difference between four more years of a biden harris

administration or the prospect of a second trump one. the former president showed up in michigan supposedly to walk the line with union folks, but he went to a nonunion shop. people aren't stupid. they know who's been there. they know how important this upcoming election is. it's my job to make sure people understand the serious high stakes in this one coming election. >> good morning. it's jonathan lemire. i want to return to the protest votes we spoke about. for so many in your state it's a deeply personal issue. it's one thing to have a protest vote in primary. how do you win voters back? not necessarily that they would vote for donald trump, but they might choose the stay home or vote for a third party

candidate. this is a state that always has close elections. there is a sense of urgency. as i've engaged of michiganders. i know this is retraumatizing for so many people who came to michigan or their ancestors came to michigan to flee violence like they see playing out on tiktok halfway around the world today. i think it's going to be appropriate that the administration continues to engage with leaders and individuals in the palestinian community, the muslim community, the aesh community as well as the jewish community. i'm hopeful there will be a release of hostages and an end to the violence playing out. it is raw and genuine pain

people are in. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks, mika. today president biden will meet for government funding for ukraine and israel. last night the president was asked about the republican party's stance on ukrainian funding and about donald trump's recent comments surrounding nato. take a look. >> one of the things about this is not your father's republican party, for somebody who's been doing this as long as you have, you can't get aid for ukraine passed? it seems like for a long time the american poem agreed that russia was a threat. seems like trump is saying russia can do whatever it wants

to nato countries. >> that's what he is saying. he's been saying it all along. if i told you all there's going to be an american president said to putin, come, do whatever you want to nato if they don't pay up every cent they promised to pay. i mean, what are we talking about here? what in god's name? the idea that the president of the united states is inviting vladimir putin to invade western countries is bizarre, absolutely bizarre. it's totally against our interests. by the way, i've known every major foreign leader for the longest time and i know all these guys extremely well. they're scared to death what it means if we walk away.

madelyn -- it's outrageous what he's talking about. >> joining us senator michael bennett of colorado. senator bennett recently returned from ukraine where he met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he went with five other democrats. you saw my brother along the way. >> i did. >> especially after talking to president zelenskyy himself, you hear president biden trying on the national stage here to educate americans, remind americans about the power of the nato partnership, the importance of american influence, the influence of democracy and the world. yet we're in this fiepgt right now with republicans who could

literally have more and more ukrainians dying every day that goes by because we are withholding aid. how do we compel them to see the power of the partnership? >> not to date us, but i don't think of us as ancient people. >> i think we're pretty ancient. >> we grew up at a time when republican and democratic presidents knew what their job was with respect to nato and with respect to the trans atlantic alliance and the cold war. voters understood it. when a president or dm got elected, one thing you could be sure is they would prosecute the cold war in a way that was going to benefit the american people. and in the end it was the republican president ronald reagan who said tear down this wall. the east germans took him up on it and they literally tore it

down brick by brook. the ukrainians felt putin off with their lives and they've taken back half the territory putin stole from them. they've won battle after battle after batten. they threw people out the black sea. this is a nation of survivors who fought not just for ukraine, but for the west and democracy. it would be one thing if they failed, but they have exceeded anyone's reasonable expectations. >> they have overperformed. they're not doing this just for themselves. they're doing this for the safety of the world. this should be one of biden's most incredible accomplishments, being able to unify nato and

help reenforce what it means and what it does. and we are debating pennies going to ukraine that are desperately needed. >> it's less than 5% of america's defense budget and not a single american soldier rushing to be killed. let's talk about the ramifications if america does not send this next age package to ukraine. what does it mean not just in terms of europe, but i could see it stretching to japan where they may decide we're going to have our own nuclear capabilities if we can't depend on the united states. >> japan just committed another $4.5 billion. tokyo is a long way from kyiv, but they see the implications.

they know in many ways this is about what xi jinping is thinking about taiwan and whether or not democrats around the world can come together and stand up against tyranny has we have in the case of ukraine, because people living in free countries all over the world have been inspired binary bravery and willingness to die for democracy. if we walk away, what kind of message is vladimir putin going to take? that's not going to be on the ukrainian people. the battlefield we count on winning on is the battlefield of our division, the battlefield of politicians who couldn't vote

enough times to send $4 trillion to fight two wars in the middle east for 20 years with a very uncertain outcome and can't somehow support the ukrainian people in this battle when we don't even have people having to do for democracy. >> you said you could count on the american people. this makes me hopeful this will eventually get done, is that over 70% in the polls support the ukrainians, the u.s. giving more funding to ukraine. you had a big bipartisan vote in the senate. is public opinion part of this? could that get this done in the house? or are the republican senators motivated by the need to get this done because it's in

everybody's interest? >> we've got 22 republican votes in the senate. we had 70 votes in the senate. i think they know this is the outer edge of whether or not we're going to be able to demonstrate that our democracy still functions, that putin's wrong, that xi is wrong. your point on the american people is so important, because that's true on a host of things. they've like us to have an education system where kids can read and do math. to have a health care system that wasn't bankrupting people, to have a system of abortion that wasn't turning -- can you

imagine if winston churchill took this approach in world war ii? excuse making after excuse making instead of doing what the american people are saying, which is defend these people who have depended up. >> the knuckle heads are working for putin directly through trump, helping him against ukraine. we haven't even mentioned alexei navalny and the fact he has been murdered by vladimir putin. jonathan lemire, they i think handed his body over. this is the guy they're working for, and they are working for him. connect the dots, people. you are helping vladimir putin as your congress, your members of congress withhold aid from

ukraine. >> you're right, navalny's mother said the body has been handed over there after some back and forth with prison officials. senator. >> i wanted to focus on the russia piece of this. this is a sense that putin has some momentum. the ukraine aid package has been held up by republicans on capitol hill. what is your concern level just about the wind at putin's back? what could be next for him if the u.s. doesn't step up. >> i think he's counting on our dysfunction. the fact that he killed alexei navalny while the rest of the leaders were in europe, that's not an accident. he thinks he's winning. when we saw zelenskyy last week

in lviv, he was very clear about this. he said, if you support us, we will win. if you fail to support us, we will lose. putin knows how to read our newspapers. in fact, he's infecting our system with propaganda every day. are we going to stand up for the 70% of american people who understand what our responsibilities and obligations are. we understand that ukraine has earned this. but more important than that, we understood that our national security depends on our getting this right. over the next ten days what's what' we are going to decide here in washington, whether we're going to stand up the way our parents and grandparents did or whether we're going to have a world that our children and grandchildren can rely on. that is what's at take. >> senator michael bennett, thank you so much for coming in

today. coming up, we're following some food-related outrage in business before the bell. wendy's will start rolling out an uberlike surge pricing system next year. and the corn flake controversy causing chaos for kelloggs. g chaos for kelloggs when you put in the effort, but it starts to frizz... you skipped a step. tresemmé silk serum. use before styling for three days

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i am every opponent you've ever faced. it'let's dance lizard.h! i can take any form i desire. awesome! i mean it's disturbing, but it's awesome. look at this shot of l.a. everyone's up and running. maybe they're going to wendy's, because you know they're planning surge pricing. it's a surge pricing system next

year at wendy's. the plan will include a $20 million investment to outfit u.s.-based stores with new digital menu boards that can update themselves with different offerings at different times of the day. jonathan lemire, this is on the front page of the ""new york post"." wendy plans to charge customers -- that's bad. i don't like this at all. >> first of all, i've been staring at this front page all morning. experts say first of all this plan will be unveiled in 2025. hamburgers will cost more during rush hour, ie, lunch. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. other companies could follow suit.

and at certain times when poem eat food's going to cost more. >> you can save this tape and make fun of me later if i happen to be wrong. i can't answer how in a million years this is ever going to work. when it comes to fast food, most customers are relatively price sensitive. often times fast food changes are literally across the street from each other. the idea that somehow you're going to go over and see the wendy's burgers are going to cost you more at lunchtime means you're going to go to mcdonald's. prices get lower during periods of time where customers don't normally go. maybe there's an argument to be made that during the lulls that

they start to lower their prices. the idea they're going to charge you more at lunchtime -- maybe they're trying to make the drive-through line shorter and make more money during that period. the idea this is going to be a huge boon to their business, i'm not sure and i'm not sure others are going to follow suit any time soon. >> but wait, there is more. the ceo of kelloggs did not say cash strapped families should eat cereal. >> i love breakfast for dinner.

>> joe does that. he eats cereal in bed. too much information. >> people are talking about just how much stirring the serial cost. from an economics perspective, if you spend time at the supermarket recently, the cost of cereal not cheap either anymore. i eat cereal for dinner. the question is, are you doing that with whole milk or not. >> what's going on with kroger

and albertson's and the fight against inflation. we saw the ftc taking a stand against that action, trying to compete against the likes of walmart and others, at the ftc saying not so fast. it is true in certain marks in the country you could have four out of the six supermarkets owned by the same company. the argument the ftv is making that is blocked is the argument that's being made. we'll see when it goes to court who ends up winning. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you. that was quite something. coming up, a look at some of the stories making front pages

across the country including a new faa report. plus, we'll dive into the new book "the achilles trap." achi. ultomiris is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-acetylcholine receptor antibody positive. it is lasting control over your gmg symptoms.

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nice look at denver there at 36 past the hour. time for a look at the morning papers from across the country. the tallahassee democrat reports two more children in florida have contracted measles, a disease that was once declared eliminated nationwide, but has recently been on the rise due to low vaccination rates. the state's surgeon general went

against federal guidelines and said parents could decide. in washington state, the olympian is highlighting a report from the faa released yesterday that faulted boeing for having an inadequate and confusing safety culture. the agency began its investigation after a door plug missing retention bolts flew off a jet in midair. the report cited breakdowns in communications between staff and complications in the management system. in alabama, an old fashioned way of communication came in handy during the at&t outage, the land line. the company recommended using corded phones while it worked to

restore cell phone service. many americans have done away with land lines all together. in 2022, about 70% of people lived in households with wireless phones. in 2023 only 1% had land lines. in some places you can't get land lines. and in the indianapolis star, it reports that ticket sales for this year's indy 500 are on track to sell out for the first time since the race's 100th anniversary years ago. organizers believe crowds are excited to see the indy debut of

popular driver kyle larson. this takes place on may 26th. coming up, the landmark supreme court case involving social media companies that could change how content is moderated on the internet. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." is straight ahea "morning joe." ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operation to disarm iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger. on my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selective targets of military importance to undermine saddam hussein's ability to wage war. these are open stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign. >> nearly 21 years after then-president george w. bush announced the start of the war in iraq, we are still learning more about the miscalculations

on both sides that left hundreds of thousands dead. joining us now steve call. his new book is titled "the achilles trap." congratulations on the book out today. we were just discussing just how consequential this was that the united states decided to go into iraq. your book gets into the mistakes made by saddam hussein. >> our collective reckoning with the invasion has mostly now focused on our own systems failures. the selling of the war and the rest of it. why did saddam hussein create the impression he had weapons

that he didn't have? this ultimately cost him his life. he tape recorded his leadership conversations more assiduously than richard nixon, and he left this massive record of his thinking at key points with his conflicts with the united states. the purpose of this investigation was to go back and see his perspective and enlarge our own understanding of why this big trauma in american life occurred. >> there had been an assassination plot saddam hussein ordered on george w. bush in the aftermath of that first iraq war. but your book finds that was not the case. >> i spent a lot of i'm going through the evidence. the short version is george h.w.

bush visited kuwait, a country he liberated through war. he had his family with him. they left without incident. a week later an assassination plot was announced. bill clinton took it very seriously and struck baghdad in retaliation. now we have all these records from saddam's side. it's a fascinating story, because the revenge narrative within the bush family has been a common feature of our discourse about the war. >> just one of the many scoops in this new book. >> it's super fascinating, steve. it's really interesting about what saddam was thinking in that period. this idea that america's intelligence services were so powerful that surely they knew

that he had disposed of his weapons of mass destruction and he couldn't believe they didn't. >> the idea that the cia might be capable of a giant analytical mistake about the one we actually made about wmds just wasn't part of his world view. like a lot of people, he thought of the see yeah as omniscient. his reaction was, well, i'm not going to play their game, so he refused to cooperate when even his own interests might have been served had he cooperated. >> you were focused on this for a long time. were you able to look at the world today and think what

lessons we should draw from what youlearned what we got wrong 20 years ago and how it might apply to some of the foreign policy challenges we face today. >> i did. this is a rare case study of how a closed dictator society survives. i think when you dig into this case study, you can see that it is very hard to understand the mindset of someone that you have completely isolated that you have no contact with and who sees the world from a completely different perspective. i'm not a policy practitioner, but as a historian, i did come away thinking that there is a

lot to learn from this rare record that he provides of how the dictators we encounter in dood's -- today's world might be managed more successfully. >> the new book is "the achilles trap." thank you so much. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. polls are now open in michigan, where donald trump and nikki haley will face off in their republican primary today and where some democrats there threaten to vote uncommitted in stead of four president biden because of his stance on israel. "morning joe" will be right back. rael "morning joe" will be right back

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the supreme court heard arguments yesterday in a major first amendment case that justices will now decide whether states can stop social media companies from moderating certain content. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more. >> reporter: it is a first amendment fight for the digital age. the justices wrestling with a pair of sweeping laws restricting how special media giants like facebook and google decide what and who you see online. >> these big tech oligarchs have made themselves the gate keepers of free speech. and nobody gets to do that in america. >> the government cannot violate the first amendment and it especially cannot do so in the name of preserving free speech. that is orwellian. >> reporter: at issue, laws passed in texas and florida, after former president donald trump was kicked off social media in the wake of the capitol attack on january 6th. the states restricting social media platforms from blocking

users for their views and burying certain content, moves they say are needed because conservative voices are stifled online. but the companies say those laws infringe on their free speech rights, hampering their ability to police their own platforms, a concern the justices highlighted during arguments. >> when the government excludes speech from the public square, that is obviously a violation of the first amendment. when a private individual or private entity makes decisions about what to include and what to exclude, that's protected generally, editorial, discretion. >> reporter: the ultimate outcome likely turning on whether the high court views social media giants more like newspapers, free to make their own editorial choices. or more like phone companies, open to all regardless of what a customer says or writes. >> all right, that was laura

jarrett reporting. in our final moments, we're looking ahead, of course, to michigan tonight. on one side just putting off to the side here the republican front-runner and the presidential race, he uses members of congress as puppets to do vladimir putin's bidding and has said that black people connect with him because he's been indicted four times. we'll put that over there. in michigan, joe biden faces criticism for his handling of israel. do you think it will impact the michigan turnout to an extent? what are we looking to learn from michigan? >> there is a couple of things i'm looking at. obviously it is that, the arab-american vote and whether they -- whether -- it is a lot to ask people to turn out to vote in a presidential primary that doesn't really mean anything. and then to vote uncommitted. but this, i think, is a good test. how serious is the problem. i talk a lot with governor whitmer's team, it is this

really hard to get -- >> hard to know. >> hard to know. >> that's what we're looking for then. >> but then also how does haley do. it is 80/20 for trump. her team in michigan seems to think she could get something approaching 40. if he continues to lose 40% of the party, he has a problem. >> he does. >> that's not a small number. it is interesting to see the governor on the program just now acknowledge that the uncommitted vote is going to be a thing and it could be that if you're really angry about gaza, as you said earlier in the show, this is a democracy this is the people's chance to have a protest as, you know, they get a chance to have a protest vote. we may get a higher number than you might do so in november. >> jonathan lemire. >> to governor whitmer's point, she was very candid about the anger those people feel, and it will be hard to win them back come november for president biden's team. that's a real challenge. i would expect the president himself will travel to michigan before long and attempt to repair those wounds. >> it is fair enough for sure. the president himself has said israel's response has been over

the top. but now there are new developments, we'll be watch is as well. we'll have much more for you. is it friday? no. so -- >> it is tuesday. >> tuesday, that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. were you worried the wedding would be too much? nahhhh... (inner monologue) another destination wedding?? why can't they use my backyard!! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so we don't have to worry. empower. what's next. ♪(song in french)♪ (♪♪) book in the hotels.com app to find your perfect somewhere. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪)

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