msnbc in the meantime, velshi starts right now. our bestie, taking the, way ali. >> so, let me just stget a. qui you're not the same place. at the not at the table moment, right? >> michael and i are together. in new york. >> alicia is here. >> i'm right here. >> the six feel up better, because earlier this week, someone said to me, the weekend's gonna be in new york, and, unlike and then he said, you, know others do not think the into the shower you talk

to, them because they have such good chemistry and stuff, why don't you go sit with them, and i'm like, yeah that's great, if it, acadia call you. [laughter] >> ali. need to blame a r]johnson the republicans in nethe house, because we're still in d.c. because we didn't know -- >> government shutdown. >> that situation. >> that's how we're gonna do this. when you all are in new york, you noticing? i get up early for this. i want to be on the show with you guys. good to tsee you. have yourself gua good day, and we'll see you tomorrow morning. velshi starts now. >> by, ali. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning. a saturday, march the 2nd. amal you'll see in another universe, i would be telling you right now about how we are just two days away from the start of the momentous first criminal trial against a former president. instead, that trial seems like it t.may not happen this year, and if the former president returns ifto the white house, i may not happen at. all major new developments thise week have cast out on whether

we'll see trials anytime soon in three of the four criminal cases against donald trump. throughout his life, the now twice impeached, four times indicted ex president has been known as a litigious man who use every possible legal tactic to his advantage. and it may be working again. and when, say the supreme court the united states announced it will take up trump's appeal regarding his claims of absolute immunity. a motion filed in an effort to squash some of the criminal charges against him. that's a claim s that has littl precedent in american history, many legal experts have thrown cold water on the idea, and more importantly, all the lower court judges who have heard the case t so far have shocked down trump's farfetched argument that the president is above the law. nonetheless, the supreme court has scheduled a hearing for april 22nd, 51 days from now. for some perspective on the timing, consider. this in april of 1974, richard nixon was presented with the subpoena, the turnover some of

his tape recorders to the special prosecutor investigating watergate. it may affect here, nixon challenge that subpoena in district scourt over executive privilege grounds. he lost. and appeal was filed directly to the supreme court, asking it to give the final word on the matter. on may 31st, the supreme court agreed to take that case, bypass a court of appeals, entirely. and on july 24th, the supreme court issued a unanimous decision against nixon, telling him to surrender the tapes to the special prosecutor. the amount of time between whene the supreme court agreed to take the case and when issued its decision on the nixon tapes, was 54 weeks, but with trump's immunity claim, we have to wait for another 51 days just for the case to be heard, not to be decided. the high court has moved on an expedited basis ouin the past, especially in matters of great urgency. if you, 1000th resolve the bush

v. gore vecase, and effectively decided that years presidential race, just 35 days after election day. but make no mistake, this was a choice. back in the summer, the special prosecutor, tech smith, asked the supreme court to bypass the court of appeals in order to make quote, an immediate definitive, decision on the question of presidential immunity. as we saw with the nixon tapes, that's not an unprecedented or unreasonable request, especially on a matter of utmost national importance. but the supreme court denied smith's request and sent the case thto the court of appeals instead. then, after the court of appeals issued its own on february six, the supreme court took 22 days just to announce that it will wait another two months to t hear the case. it's a decision that will have ripple effects not just on trump's legal cases, but on american democracy itself. the federal january 6th case, fe the election case in d.c., will remain indefinitely palestine till this particular question

is resolved. moreover, the trumpets made a similar claim that he's immune to prosecution in florida where he's facing criminal charges for improperly holding on to classified government records, obstructing justice, after he ru left the presidency. that case could also get the of the supreme court taking up trump's immunity claim. there's technically a trial date set for lamay in florida, but that's not expected to hold. the parties met d in court yesterday to discuss several issues including a new trial date, ngbut hearing adjourn without any new developments on that front. meanwhile, the election interference case in georgia has spent a real for months by allegations that the fulton county district attorney, fani willis, had ican improper relationship hawith nathan wade the special prosecutor she appointed. hearings have been held over the past couple of weeks to determine if they're actions compromise the case in any way, and the stakes are very high. willis and her team could be disqualified as a result. which would put that case into

limbo. justice delayed is justice denied. that's usually a claim made by the defendants to complain the justice system is moving too slowly for them. the lydelay has been trump's number one strategy throw all of this, and it appears to be working. in addition to the immunity claim, we're also still waiting for the supreme court to issue a ruling on the preffort to disqualify trump from the ballot. there's a third trump adjacent that the supreme court it's also scheduled here in april, fisher v2 knighted states. that's an appeal filed by the january six rioter who was convicted of obstruction of an official proceeding and is challenging that on the basis that it does not apply to their conduct that day. trump has been charged with that as well, and the outcome of that case could affect two of the four criminal charges that jack smith r has filed against him in the federal election interference case. with the election to statements away, one might hope that the supreme court is looking at its calendar. joining me ngnow is a very good friends of the show, it's team

judge ndmichael luttig, from roughly 15 years, he served as a federal judge on the u.s. court feof appeals for the four circuit. judge luttig, good morning to you. thank you for being with us. >> good morning, ali. thank you for having me with you. >> prior to this week, judge, a lot of legal experts and court watchers expected the supreme court to uphold the ruling from the phcourt of appeals, which you've called masterful. i want to read one part from that ruling, quote, we cannot accept former president trump's claim that a president has unbounded authority to commit crimes that would neutralize the t most fundamental check on executive power. the recognition and implementation of election results. nor can we sanctioned his apparent contention that the executive hat carte blanche to violate the rights of individual citizens to vote, and to have altheir votes count at bottom, former president stance would collapse or t system of separated powers by placing the precedent beyond the reach of all cithree

branches. presidential immunity against federal indictment would mean that as to the president, the congress could not legislates, the executive could not prosecute, s,and the judiciary d could not review. we cannot accept the office of the presidency places the former occupants above the law for all-time thereafter. end quote. judge, as you pointed out, by t, deciding to take this, case it means at least for the justices agreed that it's worth listening, and determining whether the lower courts aired in its judgment. >> that's correct,. ali it is an enormous constitutional and political consequences that they decided to take this case, to take it when it did, to set argument when it did. and the side it's when it is likely to be decided. as you noted, the court has set argument for april 22nd. that's quite a ntbit of time fr

today. and more importantly, that's only about two months before the end of the court's term, roughly around july 1st. it is possible for the court to move swiftly and decide this case before the end of the term. i think that that is highly unlikely. i think it's far more likely that the court will issue this opinion the last week of. term this case is surpassing constitutional importance. it will be a landmark case. there's no equivalency between this case and the nixon case that you referenced in your setup. this case is far, far more important for the country and an for the constitution than the nixon case. we don't know, from the mere

grant of a review in this case, what any of the justice might be thinking. as you said, it took four votes to grant the case, but that doesn't mean that any of those four justices have any intention of reversing some the court of appeals for the district of columbia judgments. we just don't know. at most, we can infer that at least four justices believe it's was important that the supreme court of the united te states decide this case. >> judge luttig, let's go back to the mattress second. 51 days before the here it's, then, as he said, possibly the end of june. let's go to lifers, just for arguments sake. then, if judge chutkan first permitted to move on with this case, irthere are 88 days that the defense has before this can go s to trial, which basically takes us to the end of

september, beginning of october. tell me how that math works out. in other words, it's possible this ertrial, if it happens, could be delayed that late. it's a practical for this trial to begin at the end of september, beginning of october? >> that's exactly the question,. ali on that timetable, the earliest that the trial could begin would be the first week in october. essentially, one month before the 2024 presidential election. it would be very, very difficult decision for jack smith to begin the trial one month before the election, knowing that the trial itself when would span through the election, and perhaps, almost from to inauguration. if the trial were to last three

months, when that is a tactical decision that jack smith would have to make full-time table worked out as we just sketched it out. >> judge, it's order announcing it will take up donald, peeled look court wrote quote, purchase granted to the following question, weather and if so, to what extent, thus the former president enjoy presidential immunity from criminal prosecution, for conduct alleged to involve official acts during his ten tenure in office, end quote. some analysts have expressed concerns aabout the framing of the question. does any of that if you pause? >> no, it does not. ali. first, off your viewers should understand that the courts always frames the questions that, the question that it's going to decide. and that's what it's done here, none more, no less, and every

case. the party's proposed the question to be addressed by the courts. in this instance, both jack smith, for the government, and the former president framed the questions differently, from each other. and it just so happens, that it's itnot unusual, the supreme court framed the question differently than both of those two parties, so as to require briefing and decision on the question that the court itself wants e to decide. now, what is that question? there's been a lot of discussion as to the framing of the question. in my view, a lot of that is a tempest in the teapot. at the end of the day, the court has asked the parties to brief the question that's an issue in the prosecution of the

former president. mainly, whether the former president violated the constitution. when he acting, in his official capacity, as then president of the united states, sought to overturn the election in 2020, and obstructed the official proceeding of d the joint sessi of congress to count the electoral votes. that court, of course, can decide that question is narrowly or as broadly as it wishes. but this is a paradigm of a case where the courts will almost certainly decide the case as narrowly as it possibly can. and if it were to do that, it would decide, in my, few weather a precedent, a former president, can ever be immune for attempting to remain in power beyond his four-year

term, is constitutionally prescribed four year term, denying his successor be powers of the presidency, or attempting to deny his successor the powers of the presidency. in violation of what's called the executive vested clause of the constitution of the united states. that's the narrowest question, as i understand it, that the supreme court would decide and indeed, must decide. >> you , make that point often. this is, not in your, mind a broad immunity question. it's a specific matter from which it can't be possible that a president can be immune. judge, it's a real privilege to have you here. thank you, t'my friend. judge michael, erjay michael luttig, joining us today. he's a former judge on the united states cordova feels for the fourth circuit. right, r coming, up how the language donald trump is using to talk e about immigration exposes his true agenda. spoiler alert, it has nothing to do with solving any actual

immigration policy challenges. plus, later in the show, a conversation about the quiet but dangerous effort to undermine the separation of church and state in america. how it's already working at the damage has already been done. and i'll astake you on a little trip . to donna trumps america. a dark future, that's the only possible, but promised, if he tries to power again. tries to power again.

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amazing. harness the power of xfinity internet and stay connected to the things you love. ah, they'll be like this for hours. hello dad, hello dad, hello da. uh-oh. good bunnies. ahh! this morning, the united states began airdropping desperately needed food and supplies into gaza, with the air force utilizing three c-130 ace2 trump 66 pallets containing 38,000 meals per the u.s. administration. according to the united nations, one in four people in gaza is facing catastrophic levels of food insecurity. president biden made the announcement about the airdrops yesterday, noting that the current level of aid going into gaza is insufficient.

southern gaza, where most of the population resides, has seen a slow roll of inadequate aid deliveries in the last several months. the most recent a delivery to northern gaza on thursday was the first in more than a month. according to aid groups on the ground, gazans are facing a critical shortage of food and water that is putting hundreds of thousands at risk of illness and death. fareed zakaria rights in the washington post, quote about one in four are on the brink of famine. and almost all are dependent on food aid. the water supply, as of late december, is 7% of what it was before the war. most of its hospitals no longer functioning, end quote. aid agencies have described as humanitarian crisis as, listen to this, the most rapid decline in a populations nutrition status ever recorded, with children experiencing starvation at the fastest rate the world has ever known. biden's announcement of impending aid by airdrops

mediately met with widespread criticism, including from john hoffman of the cato institute, who tweeted quote, the absurdity surrounding this is astounding. the u.s. is going to airlift aid to gaza in order to break a siege that its partner, using u.s. weapons, refuses to lift. stop the slaughter. use the leverage you claim to have and push for a cease-fire, end quote. earlier this, week president biden offered help a deal could come together by monday, but yesterday afternoon, he walked that back, saying it's not there yet. without a cease-fire, the death toll will continue to rise. this morning, the health ministry in gaza reports more than 30,300 people have been killed in the enclave since the war began in october. two thirds of whom are within women -- and children. the journalist nicholas kristoff, quote, children of gaza are dying at the rate of about one every ten minutes. so, i ask again, a question i posted a column as the war started. how many dead gazan children

are too many? end quote. the major violent episode came on thursday and northern gaza, where the 112 people were killed and hundreds more injured after israeli forces opened fire as a crowd of palestinians, who are waiting around to convoy to collect food aid. it's really officials dispute what took place. they confirmed forces fired at some palestinians approaching soldiers, but maintain that many others died as they stampeded towards the aid trucks. however, the gaza city hospital for some of the wounded were treated, the head of the hospital reported that more than 80% of his patients had been hit by gunfire. a team at the u.n. also confirms many victims sustained injuries from gunfire. no one disputes that the palestinians killed were hungry and desperate as, a result of over five months of nearly nonstop killing. joining me now is the -- she has had two decades of experience covering the israeli a palestinian conflict in the u.s. role in the middle east.

no, got think you for joining us. i had nick kristoff on with me last night. the title of his latest piece sort of sets it all. biden can do better than air dropping food to gaza. biden said yesterday, we will not stand by. we will not let up. except, the united states istanbul for those things. it's both stood by and let up. >> i don't know. i would like to add to the tweaks that our colleague from the cato institute said, in, fact or talking about two allies. israel and egypt, two might knowledge, or the two countries that received the largest amount of military aid from the united states and both of these countries have borders stay could open with gaza. i i have to tell you that while all of the figures that you just decided are horrifying, it's also an verifiable, it's clear that the situation in

gaza is catastrophic, and that israel is not able to handle what is de facto, right now, something between a combat zone and an urgent need for civilian administration of basic, basic needs like water, like food. it's oreo, for ivan political or logistical reasons, isn't able to handle it, and so i think that what the united states is doing right now is obviously, an emergency measure, and some kind of a blinking yellow light to netanyahu saying listen, we have to operate in this enclave that you control militarily as, if it were a -- issue, not as if it were an allied country far, so get your things together. i think that is kind of what we're seeing. >> how much political capital does biden and the united states have right now in israel? i ask you this both among the israeli government, where it seems to be a little less than

it has had in the past, and amongst israeli citizenry. can joe biden and the united states actually make a difference in what's happening now, or are we passed that point? >> i think the u.s. and joe biden can. i think they have a lot of credit with the israelis. the israeli population. yesterday, i want to tell, you there was another, now, the protests here now are basically constant. and, that there will be a massive one here in jerusalem, but yesterday, there was a very interesting protest outside the u.s. embassy in tel aviv. despite everything you've been told, the u.s. embassy remains in tel aviv, and you've had israelis with hebrew accents screaming into these loudspeakers, joe biden, come help us. we don't trust our own government. i tweeted it last night, and anyone can see this. so, i think that that reflects a very significant proportion of the israeli population that is feeling more and more desperate, because it's government does not appear to

be acting in its own interests. that brings us to the government, where i'm almost at a loss for words and how they're respond to you, because netanyahu has more or less launched a reelection campaign without launching an election, and he is positioning himself as the one guy who can represent israel against all of the international actors who are trying to press him. so, here, he's trying to kind of besmirch the name of the united states that has been so helpful to israel in this crisis, as if the united states were trying to impose. use the word dick talked about a possible future palestinian state. so, that's where the trouble is coming in. >> he made a horrible speech on thursday night in which he very clearly lumped america in with everybody else that he has said has become a critic, and at adversary to israel. noga, thank you for your

incredible prudent. noga tarnopolsky it's an independent journalist joining us from tourism. after the, break went on trump tells you all the authoritarian thinks he's gonna do in a second term, you need to believe. him a full account of what he's planning,, plus that we can stop him by learning the history. that's next. learning the history. that's next. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

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shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation, or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks and could make it hard to be there for your loved ones. shingles could also lead to serious complications that can last for years. if you're over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside you. and as you age, your risk of developing shingles increases. don't wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. this election is about who shares your values. ask your doctor or pharmacist let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws.

i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. i launched our campaign at this union hall. let's go win this thing! then we hit the road and never stopped. you shared with me your frustration at working harder to barely get by and afford a place to live. your fears for our democracy and freedoms and your dreams for yourself, your family, and the future. it is not too late to realize those dreams. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message because together we can still get big things done. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent

migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. right, picture. this america is at war, except it's not world war iii. we have no allies reaching out to help, because we've abandoned nato. the national guard is patrolling big cities, blue cities in particular, doing things like rounding up the homeless. kids are once again separated from their parents, in mask deportations. everything is more expensive, much worse than it is, now thanks to new taxes on foreign goods. the air you breathe is heavy, and it hurts your lungs because we've abandoned all efforts to curtail fossil fuel emissions, while we drill, drill, drill. this information has effectively wiped out the remnants of real journalism.

the u.s. constitution has been chewed up and spat out. donald trump is our president again. this is not an exaggeration. it is not fearmongering, or, is a series of -- that picture i just painted a space on what donald trump has already done, has tried to do, or has openly promised to do with a second term as the leader of this nation. we do not have to imagine a world like this. we just have to believe. trump take him at his word when he says the quiet part out loud. let's start with climate change. if donald trump's president again, he will roll back any of the progress made by the biden administration. he's made it clear, he plans to quote, drill, baby, drill. on his first day in office. on the campaign trail, trump is identify boosting oil and gas output as his main priority. trump advisers and allies have said the clean initiatives in biden's crowning achievements, the inflation reduction act, are the first on the chopping block. specifically the bills support

of electric vehicles. based on the fact that while in office, trump pulled the u.s. out of the paris climate accords, it's safe to say he'd likely do it again. on immigration, just this week, while visiting the u.s. mexico border, trump said he would use local police to implementing's plan for mask deportations, something that is illegal under current law. he vowed to launch the quote, largest importation operation in american history if reelected. in the cnn town hall last may, trump did not rule out reviving his family separation policy in which migrant children were separated from their parents, and many of them put in cages. of, course he will want to try to build that wall again. donald trump said he will not only revived his muslim travel ban, but expand into quote, keep radical islamic terrorists out of the country. if you're unhappy with how the israel gaza situation is currently being handled, which is valid, here's what donald trump plans to do. in the wake of the hamas attack

on israel, trump called for quote, strong ideological screening for all immigrants coming into the country. heat bar any potential -- from gaza saying, we aren't bringing anywhere from gaza, syria, somalia, yemen, or libya, or anywhere else that threatens our security. and let's not forget the damage trump us already done to this conflict. in 2017, he reversed decades of u.s. policy and formally recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel. anger erupted amongst palestinians and the arab world, protests and that the confrontations broke out in gaza, and the west bank. jerusalem is home to muslim, to, wish and christian holy sites, and it's bitterly contested between the israelis and the palestinians. that move in volatile -- by sending the national guard into big cities. in the recent speech in iowa, trump said when he was president, considered, but ultimately held back from deploying the military to

quote, crime dense like chicago and new york city. he said next time around, he won't have the same restraint. on inflation, trump has floated the idea of a 10% universal baseline tariffs on foreign goods imported into the united states. experts say inflation would spike,, so if you think things cost a lot now, just wait. not to mention that a trade war would likely ensue. speaking of war, and global instability, you can bet donald trump will reevaluate america's position in nato, if not abandon it altogether. trump has long undermined the greatest military alliance in the history of the world. the one that cost foreign soldiers to fight and die for america after the attacks on 9/11. in february, trump said he would encourage russia to quote, do whatever the heck want, to another nato ally, that is not contributing enough defense spending. donald trump will weaponize the department of justice to go after his political enemies. he said it over and over and over again. retribution for those who have

wronged him. he's told wild screaming crowds of supporters that he will direct the doj to investigate, quote, every marxist prosecutor in america. he's vowed to root out the quote, radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, end quote. live like vermin. just last, week he told a crowd at cpac history election would be liberation day for his supporters, and judgment day for his enemies. all of this is sick and twisted, but here's the one that gets me the most. in 2022, yet another screed of fictitious election fraud, trump posted on truth social, saying in part, quote a massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles. even those found in the constitution. even those found in the constitution. trump later said he never suggested terminating the constitution, a complete denial

of his own social media post, which is still online! what more can we expect from a man who openly admitted he plans to be a dictator on day one of a potential second personality? let me be clear, everything that i just laid out, all of the things donald trump has promised to do as president, that doesn't even scratched the surface. they fit from writes in an atlantic piece titled the danger ahead, quote, in his first term, trump's corruption brutality where mitigated by his ignorance and laziness. in a second, trumpeter rife with a much better understanding of the systems vulnerabilities, more willing enablers in tow, and a much more focused agenda of retaliation against his adversaries. and impunity for himself. when people -- another trump term might hold, their minds underestimate the chaos. that would like ahead. like ah. in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network.

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donald trump has broken the immigration debate. let's go back to three weeks ago, when republicans in congress killed a border deal with the biden white house that was full of concessions for which republicans had worked very hard. why did they do it? because trump told them. two up to that point, congress was in the midst of a rare moment of bipartisan lawmaking, the very conservative republican senator james lankford led negotiations for his party. and while he likely disagrees with democrats on many aspects of immigration policy, he actually appeared to wants to solve a problem, and he negotiated in good faith. so much so, when the gop decided it no longer wanted to pass the border bill, the democratic senator chris murphy set of his republican colleagues, quote, i think it's unforgivable what they did to james. since then, the border issue has continued to be front and center in american politics, culminating a thursday split screen. trump and biden simultaneous visits to the southern border.

biden took the opportunity to reach out directly to trump, asking him to help convince republican lawmakers to get the bill passed. >> you know and i know it's the toughest, most efficient, most effective porter cookie review this country has ever seen. it's -- instead of playing politics with the issue, when we get together and get it done? >> not likely. if you ask trump, the men, women, and children who come to our border seeking asylum are armed and dangerous. they quote, come from prisons and mental institutions. these are his words. they're, terrorists. when he describes young adult men who are migrating to america, he describes them of being of fighting age. you think the site before time language to describe people from other countries is a key tool of autocratic leaders. trump has shown he's no different. just listen to him in the past week. >> our country is being poisoned. we're really being poisoned. there's never been anything like this. this is an invasion of the united states of america.

from's very first day, joe biden allowed an invasion of our country. we're settling dangerous, illegal aliens from all over the world into american communities to pray on our people. >> wow. to pray on our people. autocrats or history have relied on dehumanizing and othering marginalized groups. thereby, creating a strict economy of us versus them. take, for one example, the propaganda campaign that created the rwandan genocide in the mid 90s. a rwandan radio station that was allied with the government referred to tutsi tribal members, a minority in rwanda, as cockroaches and snakes. the hutu ethnic maturity formed armed militias, killing tutsis in their own homes. some 100,000 people, conservative estimate, were slaughtered. but this is how authoritarianism justify itself. by insisting that all people are, in fact, created equal. trump even uses the same tactic in talking about the democratic party, calling political opponents quote, vermin.

it echoes the very worst authoritarians in history, the most interim among them, adolf antlers. the truth, is the moment secure phrases like invasion or poisoning our blood, you can be certain, this is no longer about a policy debate or about coming to a solution. trump doesn't actually want action. he just wants to talk and to regain authority, because he knows as long as our country is divided on the issue, he could leverage that along with racist, fearmongering language, in furtherance of his autocratic ambitions. after the break, i'm joined by two prominent voices on the immigration issue, and autocracy, respectfully. -- president and founder of -- and dr. jason stanley, an expert on fascism and professor of philosophy at yale university. we'll be right back. phy at yal university. wel 'lbe right back. ♪♪ when you're a small business owner, your to-do list can be...a lot. ♪♪ [ cellphone whooshes ]

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for the, break we spoke about the dehumanizing language from trump uses one talking about microcephaly southern border and how this is yet another step into this country's descent into autocracy. dive deeper into the, sundridge actor jason stanley, professor of philosophy at yale university and author of the books, the politics of language half ashes some works, the politics of us and them. maria hinojosa is the president to founder of four to wrote media and executor and executive producer of the radio program latino u.s. santos to the podcast, in the sick. it's going to have you both here in person so, thank you for being with us. maria, people who would've

looked at the 2015 donald trump campaign launch coming down the escalator and carrying on about re-beside a mexico, one would've hoped that would've been the low point of his immigration rhetoric. but it wasn't even close. he did things that were far worse, and, now in 2024, he's basically telling 2015 and 2016 donald trump to hold my beer. i'm gonna show you a crackdown on immigrants really looks like. >> you just kind of laid it out. it's not like what do we think might happen? he's laid it out for us. the problem i'm having in this particular moment is thinking about what happened on the border. you know, ali, i would say that of all the commentators of msnbc, the person who has been crossing that border for the longest time, is i'm quite, old it, also insipid crossing it in one form or another, since i was five years old. >> wow. >> right? literally, driving across are flying across all the time, and that's a journalist, all the time. a moment way back there. so, the notion of donald trump

talking about these people and saying these things, did you see him at all approach anyone to have a conversation? to just say, soto me, why did you? come because in that moment, the entire ruffling of they're coming to take us on their terrible and their scary would come apart. >> you see what you see every time you ever see any immigrant or refugee anywhere in the world. you see eagerness, desperation, sadness, hope. >> oh my god! for the people have come to new york? new yorkers and most of them, by the way, yes, there are a few who are protesting, but most of them are coming up to them and giving the money and saying they are welcome, because we know! they are the future of this city. so the problem is orthotic trump continues to do is to lie. because we also know that there is less crime in immigrant communities. it's data! it's! fact and it continues to portray this issue if they're coming in and they're all criminals. we'll say there are around 10 million undocumented immigrants who don trump says are all

criminal. ali, you would not have an immigration problem, we would have a crime problem. it's not happening, because immigrants are not bringing in crime. when donald trump says that, he is lying. >> so jason, let's talk about the -- they sort of this. there's things you can do at the border, but if you think, in a sophisticated way about immigration, border crossings are a small part of the matter. immigration is a really important thing. it's something upon which this country has been based. people have come here by choice or by force, but our economy has been based on the fact that more people come here than leaf. more people come here than. di getting society to hate immigrants is really important in this mission. if you are trying to take power, getting society to do is much more important what you do with the border. >> excellent. you have to create fear and panic, and that the vice, but there are two structure of fascism is always based around great replacement theory. we know that if you get people

panicked about replacement of the population, we can get them to be more right-wing. my colleague, jennifer richardson, has shown this in detail. so, great replacement theory puts us on wartime footing. wartime footing allows you to suspend the rule of law. the way fascism works is you say that there are internal enemies that allow that want this immigration. this immigration threatens the nation by replacing people. americans. white people, usually. christians, for example. then, you can suspend the role of law, and you can target your internal enemies, because you say my political opponents are marxists and globalists. they want to replace the nation. it's a war. they are terrorists. we see this language aimed at university professors, we see it aimed at the media, and we see it's aimed at democrats. people forget the first people,

the not sees imprisoned in concentration camps, with the social democrats, labeled as marxists. if enabling immigration. there's two differences between the republican rhetoric, donald trump's rhetoric, and hitler. one is he doesn't explicitly target ji was asked the eternal anomie, and the other is hitler wanted to dominates russia, russ the republican party wants us to be subservient to russia. he was once the u.s. presidents takes orders from vladimir putin. >> which is why, and i'll say this ad nauseam, even though people are, like [speaking in a global language] , i don't care. if joe biden wanted to pull the rug, right? shift the narrative, leave the trump campaign with an oh my god, now want to be due? he does not do what he just did this weekend which is to say to donald trump, you know what? >> yeah. >> it's a good bill -- >> a lot of people in the country don't think it was a good bill. >> at all!

at all. what would happen, and i know people are going to be, oh my god, what would happen if joe biden said you know what? i actually know, because i've been doing politics for 50 years or 40 years, that the people who are coming are not a problem, not a, threat that the remaining human beings. so, i am going to create an executive order that is actually going to mean, yes, if you want to apply for asylum, come in. because you know what, at, lee and you know this? they are happy to use that term, being tracked. every single person who is on the border is like sure, let me sign up. you can track me, i don't have a problem. completely shift, doing a executive order, in the second executive order he needs to put in is, for those people who are on documented in a year, whatever period of time, just like ronald reagan did. you now have a path to citizenship, assuming you're not a rapist or a murderer. >> because actually, that still within the immigration system. you have to fill out forms,

like reports from where you are. >> it would change the political narrative. >> we don't generally welcome murderer sorry person to the country,, but we do have 3.7% -- wages are rising in this country, jason miller and the trump administration would tell you otherwise. they would say if this is true, if all these immigrants were here in the world feeling our, travis way just wouldn't be going up, and we would have a 5% unemployment rate or higher. how to be shifting narrative? because i hold everyone responsible for, not just republicans. we've got the wrong narrative on what immigration has done for and will do for this country for a long time. that's a lab sps narrative to flipping. >> so, this is a standard fascist narrative that every fascist party uses. it's completely incoherent, because immigrants are both supposed to be lazy, and coming here to steal your jobs. they're supposed to be criminals, and yet they're going to be law-abiding, good workers. , so it's openly incoherence. the british fascist party played this, the italian fascists, they all are anti- immigration. they all run with this

incoherent narrative structure, and the whole thing is to sign to put us on wartime footing to undermine the rule of law. so, what we need to do is we need to call it out for what it. is a strategy to undermine the rule of law and undermine the united states and the constitution. >> their eighth right this narrative can be changed, even in this coming election, where we can sincere and say, this isn't a race to the bottom on who can be harder on immigrants. we actually have to think about our future as a country. the immigrants we need, and we are returning to being a welcoming country. >> i would put it's on us. on our fellow journalists, right, to continue to talk about the facts of what immigrants actually due to and bring. recently, there was a post, peace in the washington post that was saying what immigrants do for the american condom, eat just ring the pandemic, lifted the american economy so that wages are increasing, for example. but you have to have the desire to do that, tally. frankly, too many people in our

-- are falling victim to this are lazy in their understanding of immigrants. and you know? what we are everywhere. one, two, three, behind the camera, in front of the camera, my dad created, helped create the cochlear implant, we are serving fruits and vegetables to people, we are everywhere, in every single state. so, open your eyes. are they, in, fact that threat, that's what, that mauve, that donald trump says? or the guy working in the kitchen at your local diner? >> in my experience, that's what they are. >> like in my town in connecticut, where i have women who say, i'm afraid, i'm afraid! they're coming, and i'm, like the guy who's making your sandwich in the morning at the diner, he's undocumented. and they're like he is? and i'm like, have you spoken to him? so, we continue to talk, to come back, combat fascism and name it. by talking, continuously, and suing this kind of journalism. not giving. up >> thank you. thank you to both of you.

i really, really appreciate it. -- stanley suppressor at yale university, author of multiple books, including the politics of language and how fascism works, the politics of us and them. maria hinojosa is the president and founder of futuro media and author of once, i wish you. we'll be right back. wish you. we'll be right back. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. ♪oh what a good time we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪

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coming up another hour of velshi, trump on trial. we're gonna break down the latest developments in the former presidents multiple avenues of legal trouble, including how he could evade justice, and what could still be done. plus, texas is battling the biggest wildfire in state history. going to have a live report on the effort to fight that fire, am i gonna take you inside the quiet but dangerous movement that is blurring the lines between church and stay in america. and how it's already changi democracy. another hour of velshi starts now. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey, good, morning it's had, it matches. second malleable. she in another universe, i would be telling you right now about how we are just two days away from the start of the momentous first criminal trial against a former president. instead, that trial seems like it might not happen this year, and the former president returns to the white house, it may not happen at