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"the reidout" -- tonight on "the reidout" -- >> it is now up to donald trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support it. and i hope he does that. at its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away. and our conservative cause badly needs more people. >> nikki haley declines to endorse trump, for now. although mitch mcconnell and many others are genuflecting to trump, despite the ritual humiliation from the would be autocrat. also tonight, north carolina republicans nominate for governor a holocaust denying, massacre victim mocking lunatic who once described the lgbtq community as filth and denounced the civil rights movement of the 1960s without which he likely wouldn't even be able to vote in the south.

a man that donald trump has despite all of that described as, dr. king on steroids. mark robinson's democratic opponent josh stine joins me tonight. plus, facing likely defeat in arizona, kyrsten sinema says she will exit the senate, leaving a legacy of sabotaing domestic priorities such as higher minimum wage and a woman's right to control her own body. but we begin tonight with donald trump as the presumptive republican nominee for president. nikki haley ended her long-shot challenge to trump on wednesday, clearing the path for a trump/biden rematch. deja vu all over again? haley bowed out, but she didn't endorse trump, at least not yet. but you know who did endorse trump? this guy, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, who became the highest ranking republican to back trump after endorsing his campaign for a second term. mcconnell said, quote, it should come as no surprise that as nominee he will have my support.

before listing off the great things he and trump accomplished. things like and i'm paraphrasing here, tax cuts for the super rich and big corporations and the creation of a rogue m arc ga supreme court. mitch mcconnell endorsed trump despite their famously frosty relationship. for years trump viciously attacked mcconnell on dimestore twitter. once calling him a, quote, broken down hack politician. trump also hurled racist slime at mitch's wife, elaine chao, calling her cocoa chao and suggesting she was a chinese agent. you could sense mcconnell viewed trump as a pest, but the two remained essential allies to pass sweeping tax cuts and stack the courts, only for their uneasy alliance to crumble after mcconnell blasted trump for his role in the 2021 mob siege of the capitol. >> there's no question, none, that president trump is

practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. >> and then the two didn't speak for years. but here mitch mcconnell is, falling in line, kissing the ring, party over country till the bitter end. the longest-serving senate leader in history has sur rended to donald trump a remarkable turn around, though not surprising, right? this isn't mcconnell's party anymore. and it hasn't been for a long time. it's been trump's since he won the nomination in 2016. >> donald trump showing this photo to his 7 million followers, his wife, side by side with ted cruz's with the phrase, the images are worth a thousand words. >> i announce today that after a lot of months of prayer, of reflection that i've decided in november i intend to vote for donald trump. >> i talk about little marco rubio, he's a total disaster.

he's a disaster. he's a nasty guy. >> the election's not about me. this is not about what's best for me or -- it's about the country. it's about a choice. and we have a choice. and look, i do disagree with donald on many things. i disagree with hillary on everything. >> i think lindsey graham is a disgrace. i think you have one of the worst representatives of any representative in the united states. >> donald, you beat me like a drum. you're the president. i'm a senator. i want to help you. let it go. let's move on. and we're going to make america great again. >> and eight years later, the groveling continues. >> do you ever think that she actually appointed you, tim? and think of it, appointed and you're the senator of her state. and she endorsed me. you must really hate her. no. it's a shame. huh oh. >> i just love you.

>> no, that's -- >> that's why he's a great politician. >> so mcconnell didn't have to endorse him. then again, maybe he did. think about authoritarian systems. the thing that they have in common is that everyone is required to bend the knee. and it must be done in public. in fact, the maga movement early mirrors the viktor orban play book. orban is the autocratic prime minister of hungary. he took over the constitution and the judiciary and changed hundreds of laws, shut down independent media and spoiled european efforts to advance democracy in ukraine. there are elections in hungary, but they don't matter. it's scary stuff. what's even scarier is when amanda carpenter writes in "protect democracy." trump and his allies, his maga allies are once again rolling out the red carpet for o rshs ban. he'll be welcomed at the

heritage foundation and he will meet trump this coming friday at the mar-a-lago estate. the same lair where authoritarians love to play and where our national security documents are hidden in the bathroom shower. the trump gang and the heritage foundation are building the infrastructure to take down our democracy. and they are much more dangerous the second time around. carpenter, who used to work as a senior staffer to republican senators, writes for the bull work, orban is well on his way to staying in office for the rest of his hief. on that, too, trump aims to do is same. but to get there, his party and its leaders must first normal ides the idea of running a violent fascist for president. joining me now is george conway, attorney and co-host of the george conway explains it all podcast. dean of the columbia school of journalism and staff writer for the new yorker. and the aforementioned amanda carpenter, writer and eder to of project democracy. i want to start with you, amanda. one of the ways viktor orban has

consolidated power in hungary and the way that right wing fascists have rolled through europe and sort of gained power there is through demonizing migrants, demonizing the notion of non-white migration. here is trump doing the very same thing here. >> it's a sad -- to see what's happening to our cities. our cities are being overrun with migrant crime. and that's biden migrant crime. but it's a new category of crime. and it's violent. where they'll stand the middle of the street and have fistfights with police officers. and if they did that in their countries from where they came, they would be killed instantly. instantly. they wouldn't do that. so, the world is laughing at us. the world is taking advantage of us. >> so, before i let you respond to that. i want to just note for our audience to fact check this. overall crime is down year over year in some of the cities where you're seeing the most migrants coming in, philadelphia, chicago, denver, new york and

los angeles. crime has risen in washington, d.c. but local officials do not attribute that spike to migrants. there's actually plenty of data to show that places where migrants live and come have lower crime rates. americans commit far higher rates of crime than the minuscule amount committed by migrants. i want to let you respond to that. why is it such a powerful argument because it's working there and it's working here? >> yeah, sure. listen, targeting vulnerable minority communities, whether they're immigrants or gay and lesbian communities or african-americans is a classic authoritarian tactic. it's straight out of the authoritarian play book that orban has used. trump used in 2016 and plans to use in this election and other authoritarians used throughout history. so thank you for mentioning that piece. we have a newsletter if you can keep it.org where you can read the whole thing, but in it i walk through the tactics that orban used to consolidate and wield power that are very similar to what donald trump is

promising to do as president if he takes the oval office in 2025. and you know, a lot of -- you mentioned a lot of those steps. but i want to mention the thing that why i think the right wing is so enamored with orban and why trump is welcoming him again to mare a lar goe and why heritage is welcoming orban again to have the panel with them is that he is the model for them because orban governed as a relatively okay leader through 2006. but then he was ousted by voters. and he spent that time out of office doubling down on his plans to make sure that he would never lose again. he knew exactly what he was doing. he used his time out of office to get that infrastructure, write the plans so when he got back in 2010, he was ready to roll. they knew how to re-write the constitution. they knew how to gut the judiciary. they knew how to take control of the media. and it happened very quickly. and that, that is the model they want to replicate here.

>> and they are doing so. and it's protect democracy. i will read a little bit of amanda carpenter's piece. orban wrote an enduring and populist base by scapegoating immigrants and refugees. according to the german marshall fund, orban used. i'm going to come to you gilani on this. this is literally the model donald trump is using in the united states. >> sure. it's classic for people who study autocracies and people study even the way that democracies meet their demise. this is very predictable. on another level if you say, what is an autocrat without a looming fear that you can sell to people? well, unemployed. and so, this is key to everything about what the strategy is. and the other part of it is that he's utilized this. it's irrelevant whether or not crime is up or down.

you know, and in the world that he operates in, irrelevant whether, you know, the threats that he warns about are factual or whether they're fictional. none of that really matters. it's seeing the world through the lens of this singular person, who in his own words, said that only he was capable of protecting people. >> yeah. i mean, by the way, somebody, george, whose parents are immigrants, his mother is an immigrant, his two wives have both been immigrants. the thing is not only does it work on the base, they're hearing from fox all day, crime, crime, crime. they can live as far from the border they think there's a looming harm coming to them. they're caught up in the infrastructure of false information. but i want -- talk about how the humiliation piece works with the actual elected officials. because, you know, a ted cruz, for instance, he knows better. he knows -- he can get them. he's a senator. but not only do they mimic the

same rhetoric that trump is doing, even if they know it is false, they also humiliate themselves. they ritually humiliate themselves, tim scott has done it, ted cruz has done it. what do you make of that? >> it's one of the most astounding things, astounding phenomena of the trump era to me because i can't possibly understand it. i can't understand why it would be worth holding public office if you're going to humiliate yourself like that. but, it is part of the cultish authoritarian play book. you have to submit to the leader. and the people who you are alarming saying there are crises that don't really exist, they want to see a leader humiliate others. they want to see someone who is strong. they want to see someone they can look up to. it doesn't matter whether the man can spell or whether the man is a narcissistic or sociopath, in fact, it helps. >> yeah. >> and this is -- it's part of

the package. >> yeah. go ahead. >> really quick, one other thing that we're underestimating and we remember this is fear. people do not want to be -- there's the kind of calculated careerist fear that you can lose your office. but various points where people were afraid of their physical -- for their physical safety if they were seen as oppositional to donald trump. and so that's part of this narrative, too. >> amanda, let me let you speak to that. you used to work for ted cruz. since he is a senator from texas, he knows the statistics. he knows that texas is not overrun by some enormous crime wave yet not only does he repeat it, he self humiliates. he doesn't have to be prompted anymore. they make themselves ridiculous and pathetic in front of trump. why do you suppose he does that? >> well, i think he was hard to watch the tape of him endorsing trump again at the top of the

hour. but, this is what i think is also coming from nikki haley. even though a ted cruz gave that speech at the convention where he urged people to vote their conscience. after that, the full weight of the party came down on him in public and behind closed doors with donors, with friends, with allies. essentially making the case that if you continue on this crusade against trump and he loses, it will be your fault if hillary clinton is president. and that is something that is coming directly for nikki haley. you know, i think it started with mitch mcconnell endorsement today. i don't know how she's going to handle it. i think that's why she -- she classically splits the difference on almost every issue. that's what you saw her do today. somehow trump has the capability to be this gracious person who will build unity in the party. that's not true. she knows it's not true but she can't go to the wall and say i'm not going to do this. rather, maybe trump can bring the party together and we'll see what happens. you know. the crushing is coming for her.

>> misinformation. you can go california, north carolina, iowa, new hampshire, virginia, you have a base that absolutely believes that joe biden is not the president. okay. we have the numbers here. even in california, 57% of republicans say, nope, he did not win the election. so you have that piece. where people are deeply, deeply embedded in misinformation. and disinformation. and then you have this, let me play in north carolina haley voter. this is what she said about the biden versus trump dichotomy. >> what made you switch from trump to nikki haley? >> the man is a lunatic. and i think he's terrible for the country. >> what are you thinking about when you say that? >> just that he lies. he cheats. he's bankrupted millions of businesses and people and -- i don't see anything good about him. >> let me ask, if donald trump is the nominee in november, do you support joe biden over

donald trump? >> nope. >> let me read another one. this is "the washington post." this is nikki haley's supporters. i think trump is u -- one of her supporters. i think trump is so irrational and so frightening. if he allowed this january 6th thing to take place, he could try to take other the next time if he doesn't win this one. i just think he's dishonest and i don't want that. but i think joe biden is, too. i definitely won't vote for biden. i would have to vote for trump. so there's this fantasy world in which -- >> swimming in false equivalences. >> yes. fantasy worlds which the nikki haley supporters will come running to joe biden because they think he's a lunatic. it doesn't matter. they're still going to vote for trump. >> i would qualify that because i do think a large portion -- a significant portion of registered republicans is coming to the conclusion that donald trump is unfit for office. now, they may or may not vote for joe biden. it's an identity thing. i remember in 2017, 2018 when i started to come to the conclusion, i ended up running

12,000 page article on how -- >> i remember. >> how trump was a narcissistic sociopath unfit for any public office. even in 2018, when i started thinking about that, i wasn't -- i went on a podcast, it was my first interview. i wasn't quite willing to say that -- if i did it all over again that i would vote for hillary. i couldn't bring myself to say that even though knowing what i know today, there's no question. and in fact, that's what i did in 2020, i voted for a democrat even though it wasn't my preference. >> yeah. well, we will see what happens this time. amanda carpenter, thank you very much. excellent piece. i hope everyone will read it. george and jelani will be back in a bit. i need to introduce you to the rising star for maga universe. mark robinson. scary is caring and this man is legitimate scary. "the reidout" continues after

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republicans in north carolina have nominated a holocaust denying, lgbtq-hating, gun loving, anti- abortion extremist christian nationalist zealot who also happens to be a black man who hates the civil rights movement as their nominee for governor. and while usually we try to not make you listen to too much loopy talk on this show, i think you need to hear him for yourself. so ladies and gentlemen, i fifth

you mark robinson, the state's current lieutenant governor. >> for me there's no compromise on abortion. it makes no difference to me why or how that child ended up in that womb. there's no reason anybody anywhere in america should be telling any child about transgenderism, homosexuality, any of that filth. yes, i called it filth. we are called -- getting ready to get in trouble. called to be led by men. the christian patriots of this nation will own this nation. and rule this nation. i got them ar-15s in case the government gets too big for its britches i'm going to fill the backside with lead. >> he was bragging about his ar-15 the day after a white supremacist murdered 10 black people at a supermarket in buffalo, new york. which it turns out is completely in character the for robinson

rose as a passionate defender of guns, guns and more guns. so much so that he mocked the survivors of the shooting at marjory stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida. calling them spoiled, angry know it all children trying to tell law-abiding adults that we must give up our constitutional right to own certain weapons. adding that these silly little maimture media prostato thes need to have a seat in time-out and shut up. that is the mark robinson who was elected lieutenant governor in 2020. and who donald trump endorsed last weekend, saying this -- >> this is martin luther king on steroids. okay. now, i told that -- i told that -- i told that to mark. i said, i think you're better than martin luther king. i think you are martin luther king times two. >> the martin -- the dr. reverend martin luther king jr.

who was assassinated using a certain weapon, a high powered shotgun because he was leading the civil rights movement that ensured that mark robinson could vote in the south and eat in restaurants without the humiliation of segregation and that he can stand for election to potentially become the state's first black governor. you know, the civil rights movement. that mark robinson was referred to on facebook as, quote, that crap in the 1960s that was the communist rise movement. facebook is also where robinson shared his rampant and gross anti-semitism freely. in 2018, he wrote, quote, this foolishness about hitler disarming millions of jews and then marching them off to concentration camps is a bunch of hogwash. in 2018 he claimed, there's a reason the liberal media fills the programs about the nazi and the 6 million jews he puts that in quote they murdered. robinson wrote how an agnostic jew made the film black panther

to pull the shekels off of your schvotzah pocket. robinson voiced agreement with a religious leader who claimed that the four horsemen of the apocalypse are the roth child the cia, china and islam. and somehow a majority of north carolina voters elected that man as lieutenant governor. maybe they didn't know that. that mark robinson, they have chosen as their candidate for governor. democrats meanwhile, nominated north carolina's current attorney general, josh stine, who if elected would become the state's first jewish governor, the irony is kind of poetic. josh stine, north carolina attorney general, and democratic nominee for governor joins me now. i guess the obvious question, mr. attorney general, mr. stine, how do you run against that?

>> you tell people who are what you're about, what you want to do as governor and you tell people who he is and what he's about. you know, you ask about the fact that, hey, this guy has already been elected once. i humanly believe that the voters of north carolina did not know what they were getting when he was elected in 2020. and my imperative and our campaign's imperative is to inform voters because there could not be a starker choice before people. i spent my entire career fighting for people and delivering. ag, we led the national effort on the opioid crisis. we eliminated the largest backlog of kits in the in the country. we fought to defend women's access to reproductive rights and everybody's right to vote in north carolina. meanwhile, mark robinson, you saw it. all he does is fight the job killing culture wars.

i believe, i have confidence that the people of north carolina, if they have the full information, they'll make the right choice. >> so, north carolina is a very close state, 50/50 state. the last several elections governor roy cooper two election he won 49 to 48.8, 51.5 to 47. ted bud a very far right wing anti-abortion republican beat sherry beasley, the former head -- the former chief justice of your supreme court 50.5 to 47.3. it's a very close state. governor roy cooper, let me hear what he said why he thinks that sherry beasley did not win in that senate race. >> the national party did not support her in 2022 when she ran. and there was a difference of many millions of dollars in what ted bud and the groups that supported him spent in this race and what she spent. that's why it's so critical that the biden campaign target north

carolina. >> you expect this race to become a national race and for national democrats to spend? >> i hope so. i expect so because the stakes are so high. not only for north carolina but for the country. i mean, we cannot have somebody representing the ninth most populous state in the country, who denies the climate crisis, who denies the 2020 election results, who denies even the holocaust. we are better than that. but of course, what governor cooper said that's fundamentally true is we have to educate voters and that costs a lot of money. i hope that folks will support and embrace our campaign. and to learn more or to contribute, you can go to joshstine.org. >> tell me how much abortion is going to play into this race. i know your video is freezing. at least good we have your audio. letting the audience know that's what's happening. there is now in the state of north carolina a 12-week abortion ban.

thanks in part n, in large part to a woman named tricia cotham, who switched parties and gave republicans in the state house a supermajority. will that supermajority be in jeopardy in this race, do you believe? and do you think abortion is one of the leading issues that will help you? >> the answer to the question, both questions, is yes. we are only one vote shy of breaking the supermajority in the senate and one vote shy of breaking the supermajority in the house. so we have a duel imperative. we have to defend the governorship. keep the governorship blue, succeed governor cooper. but we have to break their supermajority so that my veto means something. because if we don't, they will eliminate access to abortion entirely in north carolina. mark robinson has been very clear, he wants a total ban with no exceptions, not for anything. not for rape or incest or the life of the mother.

if i'm elected governor, i will veto any further restrictions on women's reproductive freedoms. >> i will note that he also admits on facebook, where he loves to write, that he paid the mother of his unborn child, his then girlfriend, now wife, to have an abortion in 1989. >> it's wrong when others did it, it's wrong when i did it. he did it well. let me play one more piece of sound from mark robinson. this is joid obtained by "the huffington post." >> i absolutely want to go back to the america where women couldn't vote. you know why? because in those days we had people who fought for real social change. and they were called republicans. and they are the reason why women can vote today. >> so, let me just read you his statement. he says that this partisan hit-piece from the huff post is a pack of lice. watch the speech. while running to become the first black lieutenant governor of north carolina, mark robinson

spoke to a group of republican women encouraging them to look to the legacy of republican party giving women the right to vote ending the democrat's racist jim crow laws and more. so he is defending what he had to say. it doesn't seem to me that he's super smart with his words, though, saying you would like to go back to a time when women would vote doesn't seem super smart, how confident are you that you can defeat this man in november? >> his vision is divisive, is filled with spite and hate. it will be job killing. he wants to hallow out our public schools. my vision for north carolina is different. it is forward looking. it is hopeful. it is about investing in our people and their futures. i believe the voters of north carolina, if we do our job and educate them appropriately about the candidates, they'll make the choice. >> josh stein, we thank you for sitting through our -- the wi-fi

shenanigans and talking with us. thank you very much. best of luck with your campaign. coming up next, something that we are unlikely to hear about in any trump campaign ads or fundraising appeals, how his policy and personality are becoming a voter turnout machine, but for democrats. we'll be right back. we'll be ri.

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so besides the whole wanna be dictator on day one thing,

republicans have another big thing when it comes to nominating donald trump for president again. that is politically he's a loser. while trump's cruel, extremist and generally unpopular policy may be winners for his far right nationalist christian base, they are not winners in national elections. the editorial board writing mr. trump has been the greatest democratic turnout machine since fdr and that includes barack obama. every time voters have gone to the polls since mr. trump's first victory in 2016, republicans have lost or underperformed. 2018, 2020, 2021 and georgia senate races, 2022 and 2023 in special elections. and so far, the republican primary there have been some major warning signs for the party. while president biden is winning upwards of 80, 90, 95% of the democratic vote in every state, trump, who is also essentially running as an incumbent is not getting anywhere close to that. last night, in utah, he got 56%

of the vote. to haley's 42%. in colorado, he got 63%, and in north carolina, 73%. on top of that, exit polls show that in some states a pretty significant chunk of haley voters are not saying that they'll vote for the republican nominee in november regardless of who it is. back with me george conway and jelani cobb. chime in about the lieutenant governor for north carolina running for governor because he is a particular trope. >> oh, yeah. there's the idea that if you take the position that's 180 degrees opposite of conventional wisdom you must be brilliant, you must know something that other people don't know. but i point out to my students, african-american, who staked out the odd position of actually opposing emancipation or believing emancipation had been a net negative for black people.

and so, we have had those type of characters for a really long time. this is not a novel development. >> there's always someone like that. but the problem for donald trump, george, is donald trump picked a lot of these candidates before. you could say in arizona, pennsylvania, you know, you name it, dr. oz. they just lost and lost and lost, whether running for senate or governor. they run statewide. when you get out of just the maga base, generally people don't want them. >> that's right. >> now they're doing it in again in north carolina. >> that's right. he created demand for more of these people. he created the demand for the kari lakes of the world and lauren boebert, for mtg and for this guy in north carolina now. and then, you know, the conservative media absolutely juices that up. and what you've got is you've got smaller republican, hard core base that is becoming more and more isolated from reality

and less and less capable of attracting the voters that one needs to win a general, national election. and we saw those two voters that we -- that you showed, the two female north carolina nikki haley voters. >> yeah. >> i mean, the point i was making before that break was that those -- they may not show up for donald trump. they're not going to be enthused about donald trump. even if they say they can't vote for biden or might vote for biden. and that's the thing. there's going to be a huge turn out difference and a large number of people who are going to flip because we're going to -- they're going to be a lot of republicans out this fall saying, trump is dangerous. trump is a psycho. >> let me turn to you just as the head of the gust journalism school at columbia, how do we deal with this as a journalist matter. the more extreme the voters get, the less they can win. the less they can win the more

angry and extreme they can get. the more far out there they are, nothing is reflecting them. hollywood is not reflecting them. books aren't reflecting them. even country music is now starting to reflect the other culture. they get more and more isolated. but yet the media is so attracted to them. and they sort of talk about them as if they're a bigger group than they are, leading them to belief they're a majority. how do we work this out? >> two things, one just as a really quick addition to george's point, remember 1952, 1956 the democrats nominated stevenson both times. in '52 eisenhower wiped the floor with him. in '56 he has the sauce. wiped the floor with him again. there's a reason why political parties have the tradition of dropping a losing candidate like a hot rock. it's defying all the historical contradiction. the other part of it is we have a congenital idea of parody. if we do things in equal portions or equal measures, then

somehow we're finding our way to objectivity. that is not -- we don't serve our readers and viewers as journalists in that way. because what we do is create a sometimes artificial sense of things having bigger proportions than they actually do. >> right. >> remember when we look at the map of the world or the globes and we say, well, if we actually did the projection of how the globe looks, this country would be twice as large. >> right. >> it's like that. we have a false sense of proportions here. >> yeah. >> and so, that's one of the things that we need to really be mindful of when we're talking about what we do, how do we cover 2024 differently than we did 2020 and differently than we did in 2016. >> right. because both candidates have a couch problem, right? for biden a lot of his are driven by gaza and young voters say i won't vote for him. i'll stay home. but to your point, we don't really know whether there is a big problem where people are like, maga is too much for me. i don't want to vote for biden,

but they too might choose the couch. we're not covering that. >> right. i think the important thing to remember is that these people who are haters of both sides, they call them, what? double haters. those people are going to end up voting against the person who the election ends up being a referendum about. and that's why hillary lost in 2016. that's why trump -- and that's why trump lost in 2020. trump will make this election about himself. >> about him. >> and he will lose it. >> there you go. george conway, jelani cobb. coming up, kyrsten sinema announce she is will not return for re-election. we'll look back at her controversial legacy next. i know you're all so sad. next. i know you're all so sad help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market.

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. >> you may have missed it, in all of the news last night, that democrat turned independent arizona senator kyrsten sinema announced that she is noreelect she was facing democratic account rissman ruben gallego and mager kari lake.

he rain may remember kysten sinema one in 2018 with a lot of promise and became the first nonerepublican to win in a statewide race since 1994. with all of that promise , as she prepares her exit after one term, what has she left behind ? her a couple include blocking democratic attempts to weaken the filibuster, thus stopping the push to enshrine voting rights, which would've wanted the magical the friend, the late great rissman john lewis. she did her rendition of the senator john mccain thumbs down during a floor vote, not to protect millions of people's access to health care but to kill raising the minimum wage. she single-handedly forced her party to drop provisions she opposed or, should i say, her hedge fund buddies opposed like tax rate increases on corporations and the wealthy, which may be why senator bernie sanders said this three word answer to the question of whether he will miss the fellow independent in the senate. >> obviously a lot of people are going to miss her.

how much are you going to miss her? >> not at all. >> joining me now is new york times columnist, charles, good to see you. let me give you two other pieces of data about kysten sinema. two weeks after doing the thumbs down voting against the minimum wage and 2021, she was a featured speaker at the national restaurant association annual conference. this is an industry group that was one of the most vocal opponents of raising the minimum wage. she and joe manchin spoke at that confab. from 8 to 11, her family lived in an abandoned gas station. she grew up poor. now here is how she is living. her guide to staff says aides were expected to get her groceries, fix her internet and learn her specific preferences for airlines. you wanted private flights and used taxpayer money to fly private and used campaign cash to pay for fancy hotels. your thoughts? >> it is kind of complicated in

a way, which may surprise your viewers. she was the first openly bisexual member of the chamber. in her early days, she did kind of advanced some of the interests of the lgbtq people and she did go along with a lot of what the biden administration and democrats wanted her to do. it is a big thing we can't shake. it is working against a hike in the minimum wage. it is protecting corporate interests from more taxes. it is standing in the way of filibuster reform, which, by the way, would have helped lgbtq people as well as black people. the idea that we did not get voting rights reform is specifically because people like kysten sinema would not reform the filibuster. i can't shake that. there's no way to get around that. that is other than all the duke behavior and the whigs and the curtsy in and missing votes.

voting reform, voting rights is the big kahuna. if you don't have it, we will feel that for the rest of our lives. >> the other piece of it, is there something about the rick scott, the clarence thomas, the kysten sinema who come out of party and seem to disdain and to despise the poor? you know what i mean? who act against their interest. she was just almost gleeful about turning away the minimum wage and siding with hedge funds. is it that you fall in love with wealth, you fall in love and scorn the thing that you had faced? >> that is very interesting. you know the saying many poor people think they are temporary for the disadvantaged or set upon millionaires. one day they will have it and this is not a permanent position for them and therefore they don't permanently identify with the poverty itself. i was poor and i always think about the fact that i was poor.

i shop off the sales rack. that is the way my brain operates. and also because i am constantly in contact with the poor people i grew up around and a visit and you see up close what poverty means. you see, you know, the struggle of it and how hard it is just to put food on the table, how much more time it takes to go out and buy something if you can afford it. it is a different frame of reference. i think that some people who are poor wants to but that, who grew up poor wants to put that as far in the rearview mirror as possible to disassociate because it was so painful for them that they want to disassociate but they do disassociate and they leave the other people who are poor in the dust. that is a horrific. >> put ronald reagan in that category. eating ketchup as a vegetable back in the 1980s. less than, what do you think kysten sinema's legacy will be, other than electing ruben

gallego? >> i'm still stuck on the filibuster thing. it is so big, i think the filibuster will go away anyway. republicans will take the first opportunity for something they want to pass and we fumbled that. >> absolutely. charles blow, thank you so much. we will be right back. ♪everything i do that's for my health is an accomplishment.♪ ♪concerns of getting screened faded away♪ ♪to my astonishment.♪ ♪my doc gave me a script i got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪

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tomorrow night immediately after the reid out, join me and looking for coverage of president biden's state of the union address. our coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern star. up next, chris hayes is joined by rachel madow for coverage of the general election rematch between president biden and donald trump. that starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> the time has now come to suspend my campaign