if you elect donald trump and carrie lake, they're going to put supreme court justices on the supreme court that are going to assure that roe v. wade will continue to be not the law of the land. number two, freedom, real economic freedom. we have done a lot of work in this administration to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, to bring down the cost of insulin, and continue to do other great work such as in arizona, and expansion of a great economy when it comes to the chips act. we're not there yet, there's still a lot of costs that we have to bring down, housing costs, cost of other things and we're going to be able to do that in this administration with me as the senator are going to work to do that for everyday arizonans. >> thank you, congressman gallego. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner starts right now, good evening, alex. good evening, alex. joining me

donald trump is now the presumptive republican nominee for president. his only opponent in this race, former governor nikki haley, had vowed to stay in the race through super tuesday. and this morning after only winning the state of vermont and the city of washington, d.c., nikki haley dropped out. now, if there was anything truly significant about haley's campaign, it was the degree to which it was a symbol of the dissatisfaction for donald trump. yes, nikki haley advocated about theal deficit but really the whe point of the project was to offer republicans an alternative to the guy with the orange blow out. so when nikki haley dropped out this morning the big question was who was she going to endorse? you might think this would be a moment the last person standing between donald trump and the take over of the gop wouldn't

just tupitulate to donald trump. maybe she wouldn't endorse joe biden, but couldn't she, wouldn't shet suggest her supporters didn't have to vote for trump, that there were other alternatives, that the haley people mighthe put country over party in times like these. as it turns out that is not what nikki haley did. >> in all likelihood donald trump will be the republican nominee when our party convention meet in july. i congratulate him and wish him well. it is now up to donald trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him, and i hope he does that. at its best politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away. and our conservative cause badly needs more people. this is now his time for choosing. >> nikki haley offered up her supporters on a silver platter

to donald trump. not to joe biden or even rfk jr., jason palmer, the guy who won the american samoa primary last night, not even that guy. she offered them up to donald trump. sheem entreated trump to woo he people, to make them his in the name of the conservative cause. and that is because if you look at what nikki haley's campaign was actuallyle about, it was ner about taking on donald trump, not really. it was about, yes, courting voters who are dissatisfied with trump, but it was also about courting trump voters,so too. >> i believe president trump was the right president at the right time, and ihe agree with a lot his policies, but the truth is rightly or wrongly chaos follows him. i personally think president trump was the right president at the right time. i agree with a lot of his

policies, but the reality is rightly or wrongly, chaos follows him. i agree with a lot of trump's policies, i think he was the right president at the right time. chaos follows him. >>fo is it chaos follows him or does he create the chaos? that sounds so passive, chaos follows him. >> rightly or wrongly, you call it whatever you want to call it, but whenwa you feel it, it's chaos. >> nikki haley wanted toit's be alternative to donald trump, but she alsoto wanted to stay in th good graces of the people who supported donald trump. and that meant her candidacy was sort of indecipherable. haley was the alarnative to someone she really couldn't bring herself to criticize, so what was the point? well, if there was any certainty in the nikki haley campaign, it was that presidentey biden was o old, that he was very bad at his job, and that he had put america in peril. >> i want to make it clear, i'm

not being disrespectful when i say that. we all know people over 75 who can run circles around us, and then wes, know joe biden. we can't afford four more years of biden's failures. every time he opens his mouth he sounds like his mind is closing up shop. we can'tos afford to put americs at torisk, and that's what joe biden's doing everyat day. >> it sounds like if in the end we have a choice between trump and biden, you're choosing trump, is that correct? >> i think biden's more dangerous. >> nikki haley thoughts -- nikki haley thinks that president biden is more dangerous for this country than donald trump. donald trump, thetr man with 91 felony counts to his name who has said he will be a dictator on day one, who intends to round up tens of thousands of people into camps, the man who wants to essentially destroy the geopolitical order, but joe biden is more dangerous. at every juncture where she

might have said otherwise, given every opportunity nikki haley has madepo clear she is a republican, she ishe a conservative before she isan anything else. is it any wonder that she is offering her supporters to donald trump? there was never any other possibility, not really. and so what we are witnessing here is the final capitulation. the men and women who have been credited however questionably with being resistant to trumpism are finally showing their hand. mitchg mcconnell formally endorsed donald trump for president. there was a moment right after january 6th mcconnell said explicitly donald trump is practically and morally responsible for the insurrection, but that did not stop mitch mcconnell enabling trump beforeon and after either directly or indirectly by carrying out trump's bidding when it was convenient or avoiding comment when it was not convenient. and by the way, when a comment was very much needed and a

critical one at that. >> are you concerned at all with your party embracing the former president who you said was morally responsible for the january 6th attack? >> well, i do think we need to be talking about the future and not the past. >>e do you think oats approprie the way the former president wap storing those top secret and classified documents at his estate at mar-a-lago? >> i don't really have any comment on this whole investigation. >> former president donald trump ridiculed mcconnell saying he had a wish, and he also went after mcconnell's wife with a personal andel racist attack. what did mcconnell have to say about nethat? >> he said he had no comment, then i pressed him about that racist attack against his wife. i said is its acceptable to ha thatit racist attack against elaine chou who of course is of

taiwanese descent, and he said i don't have anything to say about that. >> for years a they've been toud as holdouts, resistance agents against trump and the maga movement. nikki haley and mitch mcconnell never actually did anything to stop trump because all along this whole time they knew they needed trump. haley wanted to win over trump's voters, and mcconnell needed the support ofel trump's allies in congress. and what makes today so utterly disappointing is thatut neitherf them actually needs trump anymore.em nikki haley has left the race. she says she's off to life as a private citizen. mitch mcconnell has announced the retirement at the conclusion of his current. they're still looking to him as the future of their party. the fantasy here of a different republican party, of something other than the darkness trump represents is officially over.

yes, you may still know plenty of people who are republicans and don't like donald trump. but as far as republicans in power,s the people who could he tried to stop trump from the inside, they didn't. and now they're gone. joining mew now are brenden bu, msnbc political analyst, and charlie sykes, msnbc contributor and columnist. thanks both of you guys for being here tonight. brenden, i know you have some thoughts which you've written eloquently about today about what nikki haley's candidacy actually was all about. ac refresh people who are not familiar with your writings? >> thank you. yeah, look, nikki haley i think was really excited to be the last person standing in case donald trump were to somehow implode. you know, it's not necessarily crazy to think that would happen, someone as you said was indicted 91 times, someone found liable for sexual assault during

the campaign. put you have to understand what republican voterso want. that sort of chaos as she talks about ista not a bug, it's a feature. and if your, plan is to be the as the savior when donald trump implodes, you know nothing about the republican party. donald trump would have imploded many times if that was going to happen. it never happens. republican voters like the chaos that comes with him. she was very happy to sit there for many, many months and really draw no contrast. to her credit towards the end of the racet she certainly did, s took a lot of swipes at him. but he was 50 points ahead of her at that point and there was never a real chance.ne it was a confusing strategy to pivot there atfu the end and ma yourself unpopular with a lot ow republican voters, when it could have made a difference earlier on when donald trump looked indictable, maybe dodged some debates, but she didn't. she waited until the end when he

was very much clearly going to be the nominee. and as we have seen time and timee again, that implosion ev happened and it was foolish to think it ever would. >>it charlie, i wonder if you think it's too harsh to suggest when people ask the questions what happened to the republican party, of course they point to donald trump. but thef enablers, the people o knew better i feel like are the ones that deserve special credit for that. people like nikki haley who for so long refused to call donald trump out and was his only opponent in this race. or mitch mcconnell who certainly knew better and was his great enabler in the senate. >> yeah, they never fail to disappoint, do they? no, this is what's extraordinary about what's happening and i hope people understand it that this is apl long -- it feels li the old story of republicans caving into donald trump, but it'sng not the same old same ol. you think about how different 2024 is from 2020. not just the fact that donald trump sincehe 2020 incited a

violent attack on the -- on the capitol, tried to overturn the election,o embraced the big li stopped thehe first peaceful transfer of -- for the first time stopped the peaceful transfer of power, called for the termination of the constitution. as brenden mentioned, has been found liable for raping a woman and faces 91 felony counts includingco charges of racketeering and violating theg espionage act, t and i haven't even gotten to the massive fraud judgments against him. and yet republicans are rolling over and embracing him. and nikki haley -- neither nikki haley or any other republican couldy figure out how could th possibly run against this guy. what issues might work against him, because this party has become so supine. so you're right, donald trump is donald trump. and i think we see the man in full, but the story here has been the absolute serial failure of responsible republican to

stand up against him. and as brenden noted republican voters don't want to return to normalcy, they like it. >> i l do wonder, brenden, beina creature of congress what you thought of mitch mcconnell predicating his announcement saying it should come as no surprise. this is person who with stood withering personal attacks on him and his wife from donald trump. and the public humiliation of mitch mcconnell by donald trump was so embarrassing even for people who weren't republicans, and yet it should not be surprising in the words of mitch mcconnell he's endorsing donald trump. what did you's make of that? >> so when mitch mcconnell went to the senate floor last week and announced he's going to be stepping down, he had a great line. he said i have many faults but misunderstanding politics not one of them. i think that is absolutely trueo mitch mcconnell cares about one thing right now, that is winning

back the senate. and he understands a divided party isan bad, and therefore endorsing donald trump is good. he knows it would be a huge distraction, that he'd have to bedi asked about it all the tim and he would rather just get that out of the way. he understands this is what not onlys republican voters want, t it is what the rest of his republican conference is doing. heis understands if he were to stage a i fight in the conferen, "a," he would lose because voters are clearly with donald trump. but alsodo it would distract hi from his one only goal at this point. i think he can go either way on who the president is. but if it gets in the way of taking back the sept and making that his last legacy item, he's going toga do whatever it takes. it's erpolitics, and that's wha mitch mcconnell knows best and cares most about. >> as trump says they always bend the knee. charlie, what did you make of -- nikki haley gets credit for taking swipes at donald trump in the closing s hours of her campaign, but i was remarkably unimpressed by her appetite on

actually taking him on on anythingon substantive and suggesting repeatedly through the course of the campaign that biden was the greater existential threat to america. as far as a formal endorsement, do you expect her to formally endorse donald trump at any point? >> well, i think that hasdo to the defaultha setting, right, t assume these people will bow the knee. because they all do if she wants a future in republican politics. what we're seeing, though, is this embrace of the sick political logic that does put party and power ahead of the country. she was disappointing, but let's stick with mitch mcconnell for a moment. mitch mcconnellcc knows what donald trump did on january 6tha he came very close, i think, to vote to convict him, to disparage this particular moment. theo attacks on his wife, the attacks on him. he decided this is what he has to do in order to win the

senate. at some point you would hope there would be other republicans who would follow the example of liz cheney and say there are some things more important than winning an election, there are some things more important than holding onto the seat. mitch mcconnell is over 80 years old.80 he's not running for re-election. he has nothing to lose. if there's ever a moment you say this is eright, this is wrong, this man poses a danger to the republic, i have watched him and know what he will do, this would be the moment. the fact mitch mcconnell is so immersed in this political cynicism, this endless loop of search for power, it is really a rather pathetic commentary. iti mean it's not new in americ history, in history people would do this, but if you want example of what profiles in courage would be is, this is it. >> trump's lackeys will be installed as cochairs at the republican national committee and more than aat majority of t

rnc members want to use the money they have to offset the bills they have from donald trump's lawyers. that is the state of play on the right sidest of the aisle. brenden buck, charlie sykes, thank you both for your time tonight. lots more ahead this evening. an actual election conspiracy aboutti mules stuffing ballot boxes turns out to be true, only it was republican mules.ub we're going to have more on the wild crop of maga candidates coming to a town near you. but first the supreme court has finally set a key date in the coming trump immunity claim hearings. law professor and supreme court expert joins me here on set right after the break. joins me right after the break.

this week was supposed to be the start of donald trump's federal election interference trial in washington, d.c. but instead of proceedings in judge tanya chutkan's courtroom on monday what we got was an expedited ruling by the supreme court saying states cannot remove donald trump from their ballots for engaging in insurrection under the 14th amendment. and today the court announced it will hear oral arguments over trump's presidential immunity claim seven weeks from now on april 25th, which is the very last day of the court's term. joining me now is the chair of

civil rights at howard university. i should also note she filed an amicus brief in the trump case which was of course recently decided by the court. it's great to see you. thank you for being here in new york. i'm not going to ask you to tell me the good news because i think it's truly bad news here. the very last day of the court's term is when they're going to hear this immunity claim contrasted with the relatively quick time frame with the 14th amendment ruling. how do you interpret that decision? >> it's very much consistent with this court's refusal to be moved from the narrative as it has tried to create that we are somehow impervious to the politics of what's happening around us, and this is one of their ways of doing it, pretending they don't understand the urgency, the reason why american voters would want to know that whether the candidates for president has been convicted of a crime, and so what they do is they just carry on business

as usual, and i suspect in their mind they think it is carrying forward a narrative of impartiality. they think we are so deluded that we believe they are just sticking to the timetable, sticking to the line, not letting politics move them. and we know that is not true. we know they can move quickly when they want to move quickly, and they move slowly when they want to move slowly. and so, you know, it's consistent with what they have demonstrated, but it's incredibly cynical. >> can i take it one step further and assign somewhat nefarious, which is speeding up a decision on the 14th amendment, helped trump. slowing down the immunity claim helps trump. i mean there's a thread here that sort of makes sense if you look at it through a political lens. >> yeah, i don't think the way the supreme court has approached the timing of any of these cases suggests taking seriously how much their failure to acwes to the urgency of the moment itself undermines democracy and the electoral process.

and i think, you know, particularly with the 14th amendment case coming the day before super tuesday, i mean one might call that quick. i'm not sure that i would. i would say that their whole approach to that case showed a kind of -- of the argument. there's a lack of seriousness. as i said before the moment we're in in this country, which is a time of democratic crisis, requires us to be big, to be bigger than what we were and to meet the moment. and this court, the majority of this court is not prepared to meet the moment. they are scrabbling. even the fact clarence thomas was part of the supreme court decision, if you care about our democracy, the integrity of the court, the legitimacy of the decision making, the conflicts abound, and he should not have

been part of that decision, but they can't help it. and then you see the hand fistedness, right? it's a procureium decision, no one wants to sign their name to it, you have the concuring justices giving the one-two punch and saying to me what has been the most serious, harsh, and i think not really given enough attention, statement about what's going on with the majority on that court. and i will say nothing has shaken me as much as the language in that -- >> the suggestion that the conservative justices on the court are basically trying to shield future insurrectionists. >> i can't even say suggestions. they said the majority attempts to insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their hold ipfederal office. the intent assigns intentionality to that majority. that should frighten all of us. people say why didn't they

dissent. i would like for them to dissent in part as well, but they are telling us in no uncertain terms these are not wide-eyed folk. these are their colleagues on the court, and we have seen them try to tow the line, try to maintain relationships, try to be as careful as possible. and when they make a statement like that, if we refuse to pay attention to what they are telling us is happening on the court, that is on us, not on the majority. even amy coney barrett, the one conservative woman on the court, who of course tries to, you know, scold the women by saying we shouldn't air our dirty laundry, she says even she didn't think the decision had to go that far. the only reason she's telling us that is because they obviously were having conversations behind the scenes in which she too was hoping that the guys would be able to control themselves and restrain themselves enough to just issue the decision in the parameters in which they needed to. so you've got four women -- >> ringing the alarm bell loudly.

>> and we're all going on and saying, well, it was 9-0 and it doesn't matter and this is not what's important. and any way it's section 3 and there is a bell ringing, folks. and they are telling us. >> the other part of it that's so like just so profoundly hypocritical is this is the court that ruled in 2013 in shelby county that congress did not have the constitutional power under section 5 of the 14th amendment to enforce the voting rights act. and now in the same amendment they're saying, oh, it's all up to congress to enforce this part of it. >> they said something a little different but, you know, with the same result in the shelby county vs. holder case in 2014. what they did is exact lewhat they would do if congress does pass a statute implementing section 3, which is to say not quite this way, don't do it this way. congress has a coverage formula preclearance under the voting

rights act and re-authorizes that formula after hearings and the supreme court says, no, no, no, we don't think that's right because we believe as the court says in the majority things change dramatically, and now we see the stories in the papers this week, all the studies being done showing the turnout gap has increased again in those cases where preclearance was removed. they don't know better. congress does know better, which is why they have the power. even when the court concedes congress has pow, then they proceed to tell congress how to use that power. in fact, in this one they said it has to be legislation, and that legislation has to specifically say this and that, right? so it's a power grab in every way, and it is deference to congress in name only. the 14th amendment is one of in my mind the most important provision of our constitution of the way we live in our modern lives in this country, our most-civil war lives. and to see this supreme court

chip away at it, undermine it, subvert it, take it as their own, the times that happened in the past in the 19th century in the reconstruction period resulted in devastation for our democracy whether it was blessy vs. ferguson, whether it was the civil rights cases in 1883, these are cases in which the supreme court undermined congress' power to issue statutes in accordance with the 14th amendment. and every time they did it, i mean they ushered in jim crow for 60 years in this country. so honestly when we see the supreme court doing this, when we see them subverting a provision of the constitution those framers, the only framers in the history of this country who have looked insurrection in the eye and overcome it and stitched back together a broken nation, when we see them do this, we should understand this is an emergency moment for our democracy. >> and that emergency we're going to talk in the coming block how crystal clear it is and just at our doorstep.

please stay with me if you can for a few more minutes. still to come tonight president biden has a lot to brag about in the "state of the union" address, economy, and higher wages and lower crime. but when do americans start giving him credit? plus the new crop of americans who have molded themselves in trump's image are coming to a down ballot race near you. that is next. ballot race near you that is next why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait. no i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save up to $1,000 on select sleep number smart beds. plus, special financing. shop now at sleepnumber.com

let me begin by asking a very simple question. do we know the truth about what really happened in the 20 election? >> i think millions of americans know something went wrong. the largest store of election intelligence of the 2020 election. we've identified more than 1,100 mules. >> what is a mule? >> a person picking up ballots and running them to the drop boxes. >> this is organized crime. >> that was a trailr for the election conspiracy propaganda 2,000 mules. it was created by by a right-wing provocateur and widely cited by-election deniers across the country as truth the 2020 presidential election was stolen. in that trailer they made mention of an organization called true the vote. that is a right-wing voter suppression organization. 2,000 mules is very up front about the fact their main source

of the allegation. true the vote claimed they had identified secret operative, soculed mules who were stuffing ballot boxes with votes. and the film makers suggest that is proof of an election that was stolen for joe biden. the claims in that film have been widly discredited and true the vote has been forced to admit in a court filing in georgia it had no evidence to back up its claims about ballot tampering there. after that humiliating admission you might think anyone involved in the 2,000 mules election conspiracy would i don't know retreat from public life, but you would be wrong. yesterday republicans chose this man, brandon gill, to be their nominee for texas' 26th congressional district. brandon gill is the son-in-law of the creator of 2,000 mules. and gill was the film's main promoter when it premiered. that alone is an alarming example of where the republican

party is right now, but it's even more shocking when you consider one of the other candidates republicans chose to be their nominee yesterday. this is mark harris, a conservative pastor who ran for congress in north carolina back in 2018. and mark harris won that race in 2018 or at least that was how things appeared at first because after election day, everything changed. >> republican mark harris, beat democrat dan mccreedy, by only 905 votes, but instead of calling the race, officials launched a dramatic months long investigation into allegations of absentee ballot tampering. harris denied knowing about any wrongdoing, but just a day earlier harris's own son, john, a federal prosecutor gave emotional testimony saying he warned his parents about the political operative they hired thatren an operation that

tampered with absentee ballots. works say they were forgsed to collect blank or incomplete ballots and even fill in votes. >> north carolina had to hold a brand new election after it was revealed a republican operative had helped steal that congressional race by running -- wait for it -- a ring of ballot harvesting mules. yes, mules who collected ballots and filled them in for the republican candidates and mailed them in to be counted. in the end, the scandal plagued mark harris chose not to run in that do over election citing health issues. there is no shortage of second chances in republican politics. yesterday republicans in north carolina voted once again to make mark harris hair nominee this time in north carolina's eighth congressional district. harris is now claiming that 2018 scandal was actually manufactured by democrats to steal the election and of course he's saying that. to summarize the guy who

promoted the totally discredited ballot mule conspiracy is now a republican nominee for congress. and the guy who was tainted by the very real ballot mule election conspiracy scandal, if you will, he is also now a republican nominee for congress. both men are running in safe seats, and they will likely be elected to the u.s. house of representatives this november. we're going to talk about the new cast of crazy republican characters they are likely to join in american government just ahead. just ahead. (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills.

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2020 democrats stole the election from president trump. the year before they did it to me. well, in to24 republicans are making a come back and so am i. >> that was republican harris. he first won his race for a house seat in 2018, but that victory was overturned when his campaign was accused of election fraud. that did not stop mr. harris yesterday from winning the republican primary for the eight congressional district. north carolina republicans also chose this guy to be their nominee for governor, remark robinson, the state's lieutenant governor. he's known for denying the holocaust and calling gay and transgender americans filth. these are some of the down ballot republican nominees this year, not just bad candidates, not just fringe candidates, they

are now accurate representations of what the party has become under donald trump. back with me is sherolyn eiffel. thank you for sticking around and it's so prescient for you to talk about all the fear that should be struck in all our hearts, the liberal justices, the normies on the supreme court are saying we just made it easier for insurrectionists to run for and hold federal office. i mean when you look at these -- how do you look at the crop of candidates likely to win house seats, maybe even governorships in light of that decision they have effectively made it easier for people who campaigned against the united states to hold office? >> well, let's go back to the insurrection of 2020, you'll remember there were ten members of congress actually nine and one representative elect, that was marjorie taylor greene who had not yet taken her oath who met with the president at the white house on december 21,

2020, to talk about how they would overturn the results. i'm talking about matt gaetz, jim jordan. all of those individuals took a deep sigh of relief at the supreme court's decision as well. these are people who have prior taken an oath and perhaps engaged or alleged to have engaged in plans for insurrection. first of all, let's talk about those folks who essentially get a pass unless congress passes some legislation, and then you have a new crop of folks, right, who will be sworn in. the congress will be sworn in before the president's -- before the electors all meet, so we'll have a new congress at that point, and so we will have people who have taken an oath. and what they decide to do should matter as well. so just think about the effective of this decision which essentially says unless congress passes a statute that does all the things it says we have to do

and that statute holds up, that these kinds of folks are not barred by section 3. this is so contrary to what the framers wanted who were so concerned about the spirit of insurrection that they believe still existed in this country. they were not only concerned about the period after the civil war, they wanted to protect this country forevermore, and this decision has essentially unraveled that and set us up for danger. if you're a democracy and you cannot protect yourself, and you can't protect yourself from those who would undermine you, and from those who would unravel you, you're not worthy of the name. and we are seeing the tools taken out of our hands. people are saying just vote, well, we're seeing voting rights on the chopping block. so all the tools are being taken out of our hand. >> the other piece of it and insurrectionists getting the --

the inmates running the asylum if you will is the surge of christian nationalallism. and i focus on mark robinson, the lieutenant governor of north carolina who very well may run the state, today a video resurfaced of mark robinson saying he wants to go back when women couldn't vote. this is someone who called homosexual and trans people filth. the overlay seems deeply problematic on a number of levels. >> i don't know who mark robinson thinks he would have been in 1919 before he could vote, but maybe he should ask those who were in the east st. louis race riots and race massacre, maybe he should ask those in tulsa, ask folks in alabama and mississippi during that period, the part that

bothers me, alex, we have a rich tradition in this country of those who fought for social justice and change. these are the same people who would quote albeit one line from a speech, dr. martin luther king, the civil rights movement was deeply and powerfully affected by people of faith and all of these were people who deeply studied the christian faith and believed in the christian faith and were moved by it. and that tradition is part of our country as well. to see these people pervert a theology, it's just they're using their own theology, they're using it and perverting it to their aims in order to receive power, so i'm waiting for other christian leaders to speak up in that other tradition that we have in this country and stand pat as well. >> preach is all i say. thank you for your time tonight. really appreciate it. still ahead it is a two-man

race and we talked about the republican in the race, and now it is time to talk about the democrat. joining me to talk about biden's battle ahead. at joining me to talk about biden's battle ahead

tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. msnbc will have special coverage of president biden's "state of the union" address and his unofficial kick off in the rematch against donald trump. in his new piece joe biden's campaign writes that by the

usual measures biden should be cruising to re-election. violent crime has dropped to a nearly 50-year low. unemployment is below 5%, and in january the s&p 500 and the dow hit record highs. but the usual measures do not apply these days. joining me now is the staff writer at the atlantic and the author of "the last politician inside joe biden's white house and struggle for america's future." frank, it is great to see you. you are quoted, passages of your book are quoted in the new yorker piece and all comes in a family affair. there's been a lot of talk about the bad polling that came out this week in the biden-trump matchup and bad news for biden in these polls. what is your experience from reporting out inside the white house as to how this administration deals with negative feedback or criticism writ large? >> one of the strengths and

definitely one of the weaknesses of this white house is itsinsular nature there's a small group of people clustered around the president. the people who have been clustered around him for decades, and they have this innate self-confidence about the art of the biden story which is he goes through these periods where everyone underestimates him, and he rises to the ashes like a phoenix, and so there's a lot of that that's built into the way that they assess their situation. and then they assume that there's this noise that's happening now. biden is the incumbent and so the attention is disproportionately thrust on him, so there's a point in the campaign it starts to shift and becomes a comparison, and we're back to 2020 and that's the race they feel more comfortable with despite all these alarming signs we're seeing continually about where this race is headed. >> you know, the thing about

2020, frank, and i was talking to chris hayes in the earlier hours, biden didn't have to campaign. there was a pandemic and he couldn't. and when he did campaign, he wasn't the world's greatest campaigner. that's not to malign his very effective presidency, but to what degree sarah longworth and the bulwark made this point to what degree do they need surrogates and advocates to flood the zone to people who aren't joe biden. >> and there's the way in which the aid question undercuts his passion. there's the question of his capacity to govern. if you sit and dock to joe biden you see he has the mental acuity to do the job. you could argue even that his wisdom and his age have been a major boom to him as he's gone about being president. and then there's this other question which is about his

stamina and his ability to go out and barnstorm across the country. as you say he didn't need to inject that kind of stamina into the campaign in 2020 because the nature of that campaign. but he has to do it now and find creative ways to compensate for his own shortcomings as a campaigner. >> do you feel like they are going to try and do any -- what are your expectations for tomorrow i should say given the state of play, it's the unofficial kick off for the general election. >> obviously there's this theatrical part of it which is the age question. and everybody's expectations for joe biden are so low, he's aimlessly running around the west wing, which is clearly not true. and so if he gives a competent, well-delivered speech that's one thing. but i think the most important thing is they need to become masters of their own narrative,

that there's an economic story that they can tell. there is a story about america being back that they can tell embedded in that passage you read from "the new yorker," and they need to stitch together all their accomplishments opredirecting the shape of the american economy, being more active on the consumer front whether it's credit card fraud, junk fees, the return of american labor, the return of anti-trust enforcement, the way in which the state is now acting as an investment bank, health care, et cetera, it's a story they need to tell it. >> they've got a lot to do tomorrow in an hour. it is great to see you. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. i said i wanted americans to have their voices heard. i have done that. i have no regrets.