but here the case was brought in the uk. donald trump having lost that case, he now owes that company a six-figure sum to pay for their legal fees in that case. >> lisa rubin, a whole lot of money right there. thank you very much. and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. to truly understand the black and white contrast between president biden and donald trump, just take a look at what's happening in the next 48 hours. president biden takes the podium for tonight's state of the union address, he will be on what is likely to be the biggest stage for the president before election day. that fact is not lost on the

biden administration. sources telling nbc news that the president will ask politicians to pick a side. and tell the american people whose cider they are on. and to portray himself as fighting for working americans and democratic values. while his opponents want tax breaks for the wealthiest and want to abandon ukraine to russian aud democrat vladimir putin abroad. curtain number two, the republican nominee, we're talking about the four-times indicted ex-president, he goes on trial for campaign finance violations for paying hush money to a porn star in just over two weeks. what's he doing? he is getting ready to play host to hungarian leaders at the private club where he's alleged to have illegally stashed some of the most important national security secrets our country possesses for years. he's a leader defined by his affinity for vladimir putin and his dismantling of democracy, piece by piece in his own country, which means in donald trump's eyes, he is, quote, a

very great leader a very strong man. in this visit to mar la go, there's no white house stop for victor orban. he's not meeting with anybody in charge of any aspect of setting u.s. foreign policy. the guardian reports, the visit which comes at a low point in hungary's post cold war relationship with washington s being closely watched in foreign policy circles, in part, due to fears that orban could use his access to promote kremlin talking points on ukraine. president biden delivering a message about democracy here at home and abroad whooils the ex-president works to undermine it is where we begin with some of favorite experts and friends. former senator claire mccaskill is back.

also joining us is former obama campaign manager and political analyst the david plouffe is here. also joining us is columnist and contributor charlie psychs. plus msnbc senior national security analyst john brebrenna. we'll get to the state of the union in a second, but i have to start with the news today with you, director brennan, that some version of our intelligence analysis will -- there's a plan for trump to start getting that while he's under criminal prosecution for mishandling classified documents. will you explain what this is and what you think is likely to happen? >> it's somewhat surreal that an individual who is under indictment for mishandling classified information is going to be getting intelligence briefings. this traditionally is provided to the candidates for president by the sitting president.

so therefore, i think it makes sense for the biden administration to offer that to donald trump. now, i'm pretty certain my former intelligence colleagues will provide briefings that are not going to do any type of damage to sources and methods in terms of providing information to donald trump that he could misuse. but they will provide analytic overviews about some of the hot spots letting donald trump know what the assessments are at this point. i think it's going to be analysis that will be devoid of the sources and methods. the sensitive things we're most concerned about, the types of things in those documents that he had in the bathroom and other areas in mar-a-lago. it's a question about whether donald trump will accept the briefings. and i'm sure that if he does accept them, he will disparage them, as he has disparaged u.s. intelligence officers and intelligence itself for so long over so many years. >> not to be cute, but just to

keep front of mind what he did last time the last time he had state secret, here he is showing war plans to mark meadows auto biographers. >> let me see that. he said that i wanted to attack iran. isn't it amazing. this is him. this is off the record. but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department and him. >> wow. >> is we looked at some. this was him. this wasn't done by me. this was him. all sorts of stuff. pages long. look, wait a minute. let's see here.

>> so whether he's kwukted for those felony crimes is tbd. but he's doing the deed, and i wonder even analysis has value. that's why since 1952 that valuable information has been shared with the two people on the belief that if one becomes president, they will be better prepared on day one if they have this understanding. what is the predicate for giving it to trump? >> the predicate is that all other candidates for the office of presidency have been offered that type of briefing. but again, i would think that the briefing given to donald trump will be at most at the secret level. it's not going to involved top secret information, source of

methods, no documents that are going to be provided to him. it's going to be an oral briefing, an assessment, something similar to what the intelligence community leaders do every year in front of congress in terms of a worldwide threat assessment. so i think that's what they are going to do. they are not going to get into any type of detail. so i think it makes sense to offer this to trump and make sure that he's not going to be able to do any damage with it other than just denigrating the work of the intelligence community. >> i'm always noted some of the shift in the window. when you step away and come back, it's even more stark. so the frame we have around it is we're doing something that we have always done because the institutions in the norms must hold. this is in president biden's dna is and why -- this is in the dna of the democratic party. this is honoring of institutions and norms.

and the idea that sue gor dance sat where david plouffe is sitting and basically said that anyone who sees the world and treats american democracy and american national security the way trump does should be disqualified. it's these two clanging realities. but to sit down with victor orban and share what he already knows, to me s is a threat in and of itself. >> everything about donald trump is a threat in and of itself. and i defer to the director about what the traditions and the norms are, but i think the biden administration will be well within its rights to say, no, we're not going to give secret briefings to donald trump, somebody who is under indictment for misusing government secrets who are surnd indictment for defrauding the government. because at some point, you have to say this contrast, and we'll

see president biden later tonight draw this contrast, this contrast is not the normal political contrast this is not a normal traditional political race where we simply disagree about some of the issues. this is a fundamental question about donald trump's qualifications and fitness for office. and one way to do that, and i'm not going to get into the nuances of it, but one way to do that is to say we're not going to treat him like every other presidential candidate. obviously, there would be some blowback to that, but there are moment where is you drought line and say we are not going to give the nation's secrets to somebody who is basically a show for vladimir putin and who is meeting with our enemies and who does on a routine basis disparage u.s. intelligence. >> so david plouffe, i know when i worked on the mccain campaign, john mccain would talk almost

every day and one day he went to an arena in and so today we were all georgias. i don't know how many people were following putin's aggression, but he was with lieberman and lindsey gra hall. so they all raised their arms. and all of the campaign staff just cringed. this was foreign policy. and i wonder how you think as a country how far along we are in this effort, very successful by democratic leaders like josh schapiro and governor whitmer and president biden of knitting these thicks together, protecting it abroad and things we usually talk about as kitchen table issues. >> i remember that day well. >> we died a thousand deaths. >> but think that the coalition that needs to be stuched together here to get to 270 electoral votes is going to take a lot of different people but

come together around the fact that we don't want to throw rose pet talls in front of someone like vladimir putin. that american democracies worth fighting for. we have to explain that what means. that shorthand doesn't work. what it would mean if donald trump were to win. and using the judiciary and basically disregarding norms, what that would mine mien. that's the task of the next basically little less than eight months is to find enough people. it's going to require republicans, it's going to require conservative-leaning independents, young people who i may not be thrilled joe biden is the nominee, but tonight is a big night because it's going his biggest direct audience until the first debate. so you really have to maximize this. with social media, you can reach a lot of people who don't watch the speech. so i think that contrast, we're going to hear a lot about the contrast you led off with. it's incredibly important. biden has got to -- i don't know if he can win the straight up

question on who do you trust more on the economy, but he has to get that number closely and take advantage of things like democracy, women's health care, climate change, all the issues he has an issue advantage. >> do you think that this election is still one that we look at in that way? i remember looking at the strong leader numbers. numbers on economy and retirement and health care and is that still where we are or do you think there's a gut thing? or is it all the above? >> biden does have a challenge, which as we see from the polls, people concerned about his age. is he up to this. so tonight is a good opportunity. every day is a good opportunity to go out there. he's being more visible. and more visible doesn't mean just taking questions from the press. it's being on tiktok, instagram, just being out there. so i do think he has to provide more comfort on that, but at the end of the day, where i see this election, trump has a lead. these are polls in march s so we should be careful about overinterpreting them, but trump

is closer to his ceiling. so most of these polls in a state or nationally have 87% of the vote allocated. i think most of that will go to biden, assuming they vote. this is a winnable race, but biden has to convince people he's up for this challenge. and that's why the debates are going to be important. if he can stand up to trump and push him around a little bit, i think that's really important. and then we have seen that abortion has driven and become even more so with ivf, the speaker of the house with some strange comments today on that. that will drive vote. but i think that this is going to be really, really close. and because it's close, every moment matters. you can't squander one. so tonight, the biggest audience he's going face for a long time. >> there's always a natural tension between the communicators and the campaign managers. they were in the data and knew everything. and people like me had our heads

in the clouds. so on the gut level, you feel like you could just see biden saying, come on, this isn't who we are. even if you're a lifelong republican f your kid comes out and protest the government, he's modelling our government after russia. look what happened to navalny. there's a gut argument you can make. i'm sure there's a natural tension about how much time to spend on who we are, protecting democracy and some of these things that tighten the silos in the press office, but these boxes that drive the presidential year. >> i honestly believe what he says is not as important as how he say it is. i think he has to have a tone of feisty and aggressive. >> and off the cuff. >> he know this is is a fight. it's a fight worth making. and he's ready to fight. and that's why i think this idea of giving trump intelligence briefings is a miss.

>> it's crazy. >> they shouldn't be doing that. why? because this is an opportunity to point out again that, yeah, normally we would, but this isn't normal. no one who has been indicted for stealing nuclear secrets from the white house and who purposely kept them from the intelligence community afterwards much less the fact that trashed the sbelks community his entire term in office, they shouldn't be getting secret briefings. and this would be an opportunity for biden if trump is going to ever use them for anything positive. so what's the downside of saying no, we're not going to do that. that shows strength. it shows decisiveness. frankly, it's common sense that you shouldn't give somebody who is indicted for violating the laws of the country around secret documents secretment ises. documents. i think that's a miss.

tonight while he hat tok optimistic and positive about what patriotism really is, he has to be feisty and aggressive and i hope those looney tunes heckle him and he takes them out like you better be quiet in the backseat or i'm pulling this car over. >> okay, mom. i think he's done that when he's been heckled before and those moments, you can't script them. but they end -- he's capable of it. that's what i'm trying to spit out here. what do you think of this idea that it becomes self-perpetwaiting? like the polls show concerns about his age, i had a lifelong republican who read liz cheney's book. it feels like there's an irresistible temptation to provide instant analysis that sort of robs people of eight months to sift through everything that's in front of them. how do you balance those two

tensions? >> think we need to quit worrying about them so much. i think biden needs to be biden. if it he makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. it's more important that he's out there showing on his front foot showing that he has the strength to do this job. i think this orban thing is a great opportunity for him. he's sitting down in a club where you have to pay $400,000 to join. and he's bringing in this guy who is single handedly tried to wipe out free press and free speech. and this is not a guy who likes freedom. this is a guy who wants to make a lot of money for rich people. he's got a lot in common with donald trump. and i think highlighting that while he's there talking to the american people about bringing insulin prices down to $35 a month, this guy is down with his gold guilt toilets hosting a guy that puts the press out of

business. i think it's a great contrast. i bet they don't do it. but i would put it in the speech, if i were doing it. >> i just want to echo what claire said about that how he say this is is more important than what he says. you helped prepare presidents for state of the unions. i have too. it's a really messy process. all the staffers in the white house, all the agency want their line. it's a mess to put together. but a lot of time is put on the speech and preparation you do some run throughs. the preparation around the performance here is key. you'll look at it both ways. don't make any mistakes. don't have a moment that overrides in a negative way, but it's an opportunity to show strength that i'm up part the job i'm up for the fight. so that hopefully he doesn't feel captive to the teleprompter. he will use it, but not feel

like imprisoned by it and let it rip when he needs to. . that would be wonderful. >> no one is going anywhere. we're going to come back to you, director, on this issue of briefings, any version of briefings of our secrets for donald trump. also to come for us, one of the big themes for president biden tonight will be showing the country firsthand the effects of republican lawmakers and judges who have been eroding women's rights and removing the right to make your own health care decisions in the wake of the fall of roe two years ago. there will be more than one dozen guests who certainly didn't want this night to be in the spotlight on this issue, but they will be joining democrats to help tell the story to america. one of those women will join us here first, a doctor from texas who was forced to leave her home state for life-saving abortion. she's now suing the state of texas over its antiabortion ban in the state. she will be the guest of congressman allred.

he's ready to go all in on this issue of protecting reproductive health care and abortion access and other fertility treatments making the cause that ted cruz is a danger to women in texas. they both join us ahead of tonight's state of the union. and later in the broadcast, while president biden is preparing for the state of the union address, donald trump is preparing to welcome europe's biggest autocratic leaders to mar-a-lago. we'll look at the implications of that and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.

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our adversaries have long

sought to create cracks in the alliance. the greatest hope of all those who wish america harm is for nato to fall apart. you can be sure that they all cheered when they heard donald trump when they heard what he said. i say to the house members, you got to decide, are you going to stand up for freedom, or are you going to side with terror and tyranny? you're going to stand with ukraine or with putin? we stand with america or trump? >> incrediby stark contrast there. director brennan, your thoughts? >> joe biden has a very powerful message about the role of the united states in the world. i was just in europe this week and talking to european officials about how important it is for the united states to continue to play that very important role of security guarantor and leader of the free

world. they look to washington for the past several generations and the fact that donald trump speaks so negatively about the alliance and about those partnerships that not only have kept the western world together and strong, but also underpins u.s. national security interests. it's one of the things that donald trump as well as those elements this isolationist part of the party don't understand is that the united states to rise its strength, its prosperity from these international relationships. and joe biden has that appreciation and understanding. he needs to make that point forcefully. ands also i think it's going to resinate with nikki haley's supporters, because when she exited from the campaign, she made a point about the importance of continui tr oblig world power. and this is something that joe biden will emphasize tonight in the state of the union address. since i have been back, i

have interviewed former australian prime minister and talked to tim snider. i think the conditioning on putin is so cooked on the right that you almost need to remind people he wanted the taliban to go to camp david. john bolton thought foreign policy as it pertained to turkey had been krupted and he called a friend and called bill barr at doj. the witnesses to his extortion of zelenskyy were lifelong republicans. the story has to be brought, if you're pursuing haley voters, has to be broader than putin. they are all in with vladimir putin. >> this can go after the idea that this is the super patriot when he clearly does not do that. and to go back to our earlier conversation, mccaskill has put

a fire under me. i think the biden administration should pick a fight on the security briefings. i think that what he ought to say is donald trump cannot be trusted. donald trump does not have this country's best interest at heart. and we're going to do something we have never done before. we're going to say no to donald trump. obviously, this is taking a page the from trump's book, which is that you pick the fight, you decide what you want to have a debate about. i think we ought to debate about donald trump's patriotism. we ought to have a debate about whether or not donald trump can be trusted and whether donald trump puts vladimir putin ahead of the united states. if joe biden wants to change the dynamics of this race, he's going to have to treat this as a very abnormal political contest. i very strong ily agree with what claire said about the way

joe biden needs to present himself, but also what david said. you can't rely on sort of the shorthand versions that the soul of the nation is at stake or that democracy at stake. he has to put some muscle on this. he has to make it very clear. this is what we are talking about. these are the stakes. this man wants to be president. i'm telling you right now that we do not trust him with the nation's secrets. >> this gets down to who is in control of the race. donald trump suspect in control of himself. not what he tweets, not what he says. so donald trump is going to be what donald trump is going to be. no self-regulation, no ideas, no agenda. there will be tactics more audacious than the other. the only person in charge of his destiny is joe biden. and i suggested that he roll out a constitutional capping speaks to youth. he can take control of what you

said in the break. i don't know if you want to say it on tv, but this idea of people think trump is strong. people thinks ax murders have a lot of arm strength, but they do a tremendous amount of damage. and the idea of portraying yourself as strong is about the fights you pick and the way you wage them. >> here's frankly president obama had a little bit of the same problems sometimes. he was so conscious of the office and what went with it. >> which is a beautiful problem. >> they revere the office. they don't want to do anything that would tarnish how the office is perceived by the american people. biden has a different problem than obama had. the guy that was here before trashed it. he had political rallies on the lawn. he had his convention at the white house. it was crazy the way he politicized everything, the norms that were blown up, bringing people in and showing them thing thas shouldn't have seen in terms of foreign

leaders. so biden can't treat trump like he's normal. biden has to treat him like he is somebody that he's in a street fight with. that doesn't comp naturally to joe biden. how long did he go without saying trump's name? he's gotten over that, but he's got to take it to the next level. he needs to be on the front foot. he these to be the aggressor and say no briefings. as long as you're under indictment, you do not get briefings. if you don't like it, pound sand. >> i love that. pound sand. >> there's some on the beach by your mlt million dollar golf club. >> go pound sand. i watched a lot of sports on television. they have more and more of these players are micced. and it's like my favorite thing. you hear what they actually say to each other.

they have to just invert the whole dynamic, because that's what republicans have done. they have totally averted that was taboo is now the base. and the democrats are so rev rent of the institutions that they are so slow. i think hot mic biden was one of the better moments. >> i agree. there's been a reporting of what he says behind closed doors. they should bring that out. but biden himself directly hut trump for not remembering melania's name. there's a lot of user-generated content that goes after trump. i wish we were talking about health care and tax rates, but humiliating him, being in his face, because trump takes the bait. >> because trump doesn't care about his poicies he cares about the size of three things. his wealth, his hair, and i think that's about it. the size of his businesses. those are mostly take away.

you go after the fact he's not as smart as he thinks he is and his hair isn't as attractive. it's shallow. people still can't adapt. >> but that's the world we're living in. nixon and television. even obama had an advantage over the internet. you have to think about this election, i think, instagram, tiktok first. everything else is secondary. that is memes and short videos. it's stuff that people who may not be reading the state of the unit speech will say that's interesting. >> you're right. to be continued. we'll figure it out around here. david plouffe, charlie sykes. thank you for starting us off. up next for us, one of the attendees for tonight's address is a doctor from dallas, texas, who has experienced firsthand the harm that her state's restrictive reproductive laws are having on millions of women

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we don't have to be embarrassed by our senator. we can get a new one. when texans are freezing in the dark, he decides to go to cancun. when our democracy was under attack, he's hiding in the supply closet. after he was the one who whipped up the mob. we know where he stands.

>> wow. that was congressman allred of texas. he overwhelmingly won the primary on tuesday night launching him to a one-on-one battle to unseat perhaps the most unlikable current senator, republican ted cruz. his guest for the state of the union is dr. austin denard, a texas doctor who we'll talk with in a couple minutes as well. congratulations on your win. we were watching the returns come in. and looking forward to a general election where some of the big -- i know you're texas through and through, but a lot of the themes you could have swapped out with with your opening line there. we don't have to be embarrassed by our senator. tell me about sort of the opening arguments of your general election campaign. >> thanks for having me on. i can't wait to have dr. denard here. she's incredibly inspiring.

when i played in the nfl, we called these guys me guys. the only ones looking out for themselves who is took credit for things they shouldn't be taking credit for. ted cruz is the the ultimate me guy. what uh-uh said on election night, and i feel really strong ly, we is more powerful than me. as texans, we can go in a very different direction. we have to be embarrassed but our senator. we can get a new one. a lot of folks are wondering about texas. but i'm a four generation texan. i was raised in dallas by a single mop mom. i went to school at baylor. i think i know who we are. and we're not who ted cruz says we are. we're going to show that on november 5th. >> how much of sort of defying texas' recent political history because texas has elected plenty of powerful democrats, but how much is it something has changed in texas with the overreach and

just the political mayhem on the right and how much of it is unique to what you just art ticlated, your story? >> it's some of both. certainly, what we have seen here is a vast overreach by republican party here in texas that i don't recognize. that's not the one they grew up around. certainly not the folks that i went to school at baylor with or grew up around in dallas. many of those folks are now voting for me. and that's one of the changes that has occurred here. but it's also just true that this is going to be a race about ted cruz and about me and about our very different views and lances for where we can take our state. we know who ted cruz is. everybody know who is he is. he's the most devisive senator in the country. he spends his time whipping up anger, iting folks against each other. i'm the exact opposite. i'm the most bipartisan member. i'm proud of trying to work across the aisle. that means we're getting things done. when you're raised by a single mom, you don't have time for theoretical ideas.

i look forward to that contrast. we're going to have the most extreme senator in the country versus somebody who is a bridge builder, wants to bring us together. i know which direction texasss are going to take. >> it's the most extreme senator, your state tragically has some of the most extreme abortion bans. a six-week ban, written by somebody that's been trying to chip away at a woman's right to choose for much of his legal career. i love that we're going to get to talk with someone who has lived the real con consequences of that. i wonder if you could me how that issue is playing in texas. is it the overreach that has pushed more texns into seeing it differently or is it changing? >> i think we're also seeing what it actually looks like to have a near total ban on abortion. i think when i first was instituted, i think many texans weren't sure how this was going to play out. but we are now seeing exactly what it looks like.

it's the predictable outcome, which is folks like dr. denard, who will be joining us, who was a mother of two. had a third pregnancy. got the news we hope we don't get, but the pregnancy wasn't viable and she elt felt like she had to sneak out of her own state to get the health care i needed. my wife and i had two baby boys. and those rooms are too small to have ted cruz in there when you're having those discussions and trying to make those decisions. the only way that we can restore this right to texas women and to women around the country is to codify roe v. wade at the federal level. that's what we'll do. oif to make sure texans know that. what's happening is a tragedy. we can't go on like this. >> i'm so glad you brought it back to those rooms. anyone that's been ther -- it's just is so powerful. we're going to get to bring into this conversation dr. denard after a short break. stay with us. we'll be right back. r a short b. stay with us we'll be right back.

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it's every woman's worse nightmare and it was unbearable. >> that was dr. denard from texas, who was featured in that biden campaign ad who had to lead the state for a life save ing abortion and now one of 13 women suing her home state of texas. she will be congressman allred's guest tonight at the state of the union. thank you for being with us. >> i never get too far in abortion politics without talking about the women. even if it wand could be waved, there's still women living the nightmare that you endured. and i i wonder what your advice is for how we keep experiences like yours that are the universal nightmare for every woman who has ever been pregnant front of mind.

>> it is. it's a universal nightmare that we're all experiencing. i feel like in my state, we really have hit rock bottom when it comes to abortion care is and care for women. so it's time for every texas woman and really every woman in the country to put their boots on and start climbing so that we can get to a place where we have choice again. >> do you feel -- is it surreal to be sharing this sort of painful experience from your own life with the purpose of helping other women not have to walk in your shoes? >> i think at times it does feel surreal. but there came a point in my grief after my loss that i just couldn't be silent anymore. the silence was actually more painful than speaking out. i'm just so glad that i'm able to speak out and have people support me. >> what is your hope? is your hope -- because republicans can't have this

debate be about you or be about a panda. they need this debate to be more sinister and for them, and i say this having spent time in the republican party, someone who desperately wants a pregnancy, but is denied health care. someone who wants the baby she loses. those are the stories that make this issue a loser for republicans red states like kansas and hopefully some day texas. what jr. hope? what do you want republicans to see when they hear your story? >> i want republicans to see that this is real and it's happening. it's really damaging women and families. s it's tearing families apart. all we need is choice. if we can have our choice back, women will make the right decision. >> what is your perspective as a doctor? what is it like on that side of it? >> as a doctor, it's also

terrifying. it's been really paralyzing. the fear of how to take care of women in our state and in other states, it's taken a lot of joy away from what should be this beautiful process, which is pregnancy and growing a family. it's been traumatic as it has been fleeing my state to get an abortion. >> and what is your hope from this -- women on the frontlines are not just experts. they are victims of these extreme policies. what is it that you all share privately and hope to impart on all of us concerned citizens? >> i think being able to come together and share our stories, i always say my little whisper with the support of other women and sharing my story has become louder and louder. now it's really a rally cry that we need to make this the number

one reason to go out and vote. >> do you feel optimistic when you see how politically dangerous and -- i'm talking about political danger seems petty compared to the physical danger you experienced, but the reality is this is a huge political liability for republicans. does that make you feel optimistic about your state and the country? >> well, i don't really consider myself very political. although, i have been in a political ad, which i never thought i would find myself in. i'm a glass half full type of person. we have to have hope. we have to fight together to get our freedoms back. >> congressman, i think the first conversation with you, you talked about being by a single mother. the stories of women from texas are among the most harrowing that we've had access to as journalists who try to cover this thoughtfully and in depth.

and i wonder what your campaign is going to be about being from a state where women there have suffered this really egregious near total ban on abortion. >> yeah. first of all, we can just see the bravery that dr. dennard is showing. just talking about these experiences is incredibly difficult. talking about it on a national level is inspiring. and what she's doing is fighting for rights for other moms and for other women out there. there should happen to no texas woman. they should not have to experience what she experienced. our campaign is going to be about how we have to restore our freedoms, nobody's going to give it to us. we have to take them back. one of those freedoms, of course, is access to abortion and the health care decisions should be placed with women and taken away out of the hand of folks like ted cruz. so i am really thankful for y'all for giving us a chance to tell dr. dennard's story. i'm thankful for her, for her

bravery. but i also understand that we have to take this now and make sure that folks all across texas know that it doesn't have to be this way, that we can restore this right. we can do it by beating ted cruz, by codifying roe v. wade and going back to what we've had the last 50 years. >> congressman and dr. austin dennard, thank you so much for the conversation. i'm grateful to both of you. a district break for us, we'll be right back. a district break for us, we'll be right back. but, you also can't leave covered in hair. with bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. bounce, it's the sheet.

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claire, the question abortion should be legal in all or most instances, has more support today than any point since the question's been asked. last time i looked it was 73%, but that was up from the 60s at certain points in our politics. that number has been in the low 60s since the right was taken away. i think -- here it is. this is among all americans, 66% support abortion, 86% of democrats and 67% of independents. this is such a sort of gut issue. you don't need to explain what it is to people. they know. they're living it. >> and what happened is all these states have passed laws -- my state, for example, passed a law that would go into effect if roe was ever overturned. >> trigger laws. >> they were ready. those laws are so extreme, life begins at conception, anything

that's done to in any way harm the ability of a fertilized egg to implant is illegal which means, of course, that iuds, which sometimes do that, are illegal in my state. now they're not prosecuting anyone right now because it's a little bit like alabama. they're trying to hide in alabama the fact they put it in their constitution that life begins at conception. of course and -- fertilized embryo under their constitution, that's what those judges said. so it is -- and women are not going to forget this issue. it's not going to go away. you know, men i think also are very, very upset about this. but women feel it in their bones, that if you have these extreme laws, even if nobody's prosecuting the people for doing this, the doctors are going to change the way they give care because their lawyers are going to tell them they have to. so beware tonight at katie britt doing this response to the "state of the union." she's one of them.

she's the one that says life begins at conception. we know because this doctor and other women who told their painful stories that sometimes terminating a pregnancy is the right thing to do for a woman, her health, and her family. >> we're so lucky that you could be with us all night long. all night long, right? thank you very much for starting your long shift here with us. up next for us, the man donald trump calls a, quote, strong and tremendous leader auto accurate victor orban will be his guest at mar-a-lago. the alarm bells that is setting off among those working to protect our democracy. that story's next. that story's next.

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a great leader in europe, viktor orban. he's the -- he's the prime minister of hungary. he's a very great leader. very strong man. some people don't like him because he's too strong. nice to have a strong man running your country. viktor orban.

anyone ever hear of him? he's probably like one of the strongest leaders anywhere in the world, and he -- he's the leader of -- right -- the leader of turkey. viktor orban, and he's the head of hungary, and he runs a tough -- let me tell you, he runs it properly. he runs it strong. >> twice there, of course, hungary, not turkey, folks. hi, again, it's 5:00 in new york. that was, 40s, the disgraced twice impeached ex-president donald trump who has made no secret of his affinitiy for, dare we say obsession, with the world's autocrats and dictators and dangerous club of what he says admiringly are strong men, leaders who are so strong. trump is desperate to elbow his way into that group. it's a that includes vladimir putin, xi jinping, kim jong-un to name a few. now one of the members of the dictators club is right here on

american soil for an epic hangout with america's wannabe dictator. the autocrat in question is hungary's prime minister, viktor orban. he has been called, quote, the ultimate 21st century dictator, a title he earned by, quote, chipping away at his country's democratic systems through policies that are hostile to lgbtq people and immigrants and crackdowns on the free press and the judiciary. is that ringing any bells? today on this day, the "state of the union," viktor orban is in washington, d.c., meeting with the head of the heritage foundation. the ultra serve activist think tank and mastermind of project 2025 that plans to, quote, in their own word, dismantle the u.s. government and replace it with trump's vision. tomorrow, orban is heading south to mar-a-lago to meet with donald trump and discuss how to end the war in ukraine. and given that orban is the guy who's been cozying up to putin and holding up european aid to

korean that conversation should be -- ukraine that conversation should be interesting. rolling out the red carpet for orban may not be a big deal but it has massive implications. quote, trump's mar-a-lago meeting with viktor orban should terrify us all. as americans we may not be overly familiar with who viktor orban is and his own personal journey into autocracy, but orban's calling card is chaos and cruelty, again ringing some familiar notes, right? importantly, experts who study strongmen and study how democracies backslide into autocracy say his brand of dictatorship is easier to imitate than murdering enemies in full daylight like the murder of vladimir putin or kim jong-un. quote, orban is a model for

retaking the executive office and then consolidating power for maximum authoritarian impact. like trump, orban was ousted by voters and then spent time out of office making plans to win the next election, seize control of the levers of power, and abolish democratic checks in the system. ensuring he would never lose again. moreover, orban is a textbook example of why autocrats are often much more dangerous the second term in office. they learn from their mistakes. their shortcomings, and above all, things that cause them to lose power previously. orban is well on his way to staying in office for the rest of his life. on that, too, trump aims to do the same. and that is exactly what we are seeking to examine with our series "american autocracy: it can happen here." we begin with staff writer for "the atlantic" ann applebaum, author of "twilight of

democracy: the seductive lure of authoritarianism." writer and editor for protect democracy, amanda carpenter's here. her newsletters, "if you can keep it," is a must read. rachel kleinfeld, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for national peace. thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. ann, what are your thoughts? at one level, of course, orban's heading to mar-a-lago. he might even use a bathroom where classified state secrets were stashed until trump was indicted. but there is a lot that trump is saying out loud and from the podium that has more than an echo in viktor orban's journey. >> so what's important about orban is that he was democratly elected. hungary was a democracy. it's still a member of nato. it's still a member of the european union. orban had popular support. he won a big election victory actually. but what matters is what he did after he won. and he then began to

systematically piece by piece dismantle the institutions of democracy. and he did so without -- in his case he did so first without breaking the law. he changed the constitution because he had a constitutional majority. he altered the judges. he began doing something behind the scenes. so for example, he played around with the press, people who advertised in the opposition press suddenly had trouble getting government contracts. and because hungary's a small country, he also began to dominate the economy, making sure that his businessmen, his oligarchs stayed ahead. and by doing so over a number of years, he made himself impossible to remove from power. and that is now the model of democratic takeover. you know, when you want to destroy a democracy nowadays, you don't have a coup d'etat, you don't need to send the tanks into the presidential palace and shoot up the ceiling. what you do is you take it apart piece by piece.

and others have copied him. the polls -- the previous polish government attempted to copy him. they didn't quite succeed and lost an election in october. the israeli government has tried to copy him. that was actually the big story in israel last summer before the gaza war began. it's not that different from what hugo chavez did in venezuela. this isn't necessarily a right-wing process. it can also be a left-wing process. watch what we has -- not what he says, what he says about lgbtq rights or about migration is horrific, but it's not so much that. those are the game he plays to keep your eye away from the ball. what matters is what he does to the judges, what he does to the civil service, what he does to the media. >> and anne, the thing that made him popular, if i remember accurately, was the issue of immigration, right? he made sure that hungary was less porous and welcoming at a time when other european countries were having massive flows of migrants. is that right? >> it was actually even a bit

more dramatic than that because hungary doesn't have a migration problem. the united states you can say there is a migration issue. hungary doesn't have one. nobody is moving to hungary. it doesn't have lots of migrants, and it's not an issue. what he did was create the impression of an issue. he created hysteria around it. he linked himself to far-right ideas about replacement theory. you know, there was a jewish cabal led by george soros that wants to replace white hung aarons with brown people or -- hungarians with brown people or what occur and he created this anxiety. as i said, that was in a way -- that's the veil, this fake culture war that he creates to distract people, to anger people, and to play into people's emotions and people's fears about whatever they're afraid of, you know, about loss of national identity, about globalization, about the economy, whatever it is. he made people focus on that.

and while he -- while they were paying attention to that, he was, in fact, changing hungary's political system. >> rachel, you write about one of the institutions where you don't have to see behind the curtain at manager to know that trump covets this. you write this, "elected leaders who use their popularity to write roughshod over their country's institutions, in orban's case that meant putting all of hungary's courts under the control of one of his loyalists." trump, i think, thinks he's made some progress on that progress with his appointees to the supreme court. i think they would beg to differ. but that is very much an active project on trump's part. he's gone after the rule of law since his first day as president. >> that's right. one of the things that orban did as anne said was centralize power. he centralized power first to the courts, taking over, changing their independence. as you said, trump has already made some serious headway in

this area in america. orban also centralized power over regular people, firemen, nurses, local -- local nonprofits, soccer leagues that were previously completely apolitical. but he made everything into politics. i think one of the parts of the orban story that gets told the least is how he took over the business sector. the business sector in hungary had been a normal capitalist sector right before he took power. and after just eight years, he had basically moved into so many fields with him and his cronies forcing companies to be either paying high taxes or high levels of regulation or give up their companies. villainizing companies until they gave up, driving people out of town, that he had turned what had been an independent sector into something that was really decided who won and who lost in the business arena was really much more decided by the fidez

party. that's another area that trump really wants to move into because these autocrats are not just in it for power, they're also in it for money. and there's a huge amount of corruption that lies behind these power grabs. and orban has shown the way, and i would very much expect that we would see some of that in america. >> you know, rachel, i made a list as you and i were talking. went through the press very much on alert, very much aware that a free press is a threat to any autocrat or wannabe autocrat. the judiciary, rule of law, lots of federal and state judges who have written about, you know, that our rule of law is not one where anyone is a king or above the law. that is a -- an institution on high alert. the business community seems totally asleep at the switches. you talk to people in big business or small, and they seem to still be either gobbling up the propaganda that trump is somehow good for business, or

just oblivious to the idea that the policies and the politics are not republican or conservative, they're autocratic. he's a wannabe dictator. and sure, some businesses may thrive, but you have to be loyal and good to the dear leader. if you've got a kid that sends out a mean tweet -- the arbitrary for of what businesses are targeted by some like viktor orban or putinpoon seems to be something that -- vladimir putin seems to be something that big business in this country is oblivious to. do you see signs that they're more quietly concerned? >> you know, i wish i did. i have not seen that many. but when you look at populous around the world -- populists around the world, the right-wing populists espouse a policy set. when you look at the policies, they're exactly the same as the left-wing populists that drove their economies into the ground in the '70s in latin america. and when you look at what orban's done, he hired enormous numbers of people onto the state payroll. and then they had to vote for him. he brought lots of companies,

the banking sector, the utility sector, he nationalized those. he forced them into bankruptcy often and then would nationalize. that's not usually considered a right-wing policy, that's what orban did. and he did it so that he could then use those utilities, telecoms, and so on to force other businesses to toe the line or they wouldn't get the lights turned on and so on. so by eight years in, what you had were hungarian architects and hungarian construction companies, really entities that had nothing to do with politics. but they couldn't get contracts unless they towed the government line. you just couldn't steer clear of politics even if your business was completely isolated. as anne said, hungary's a small country, they would find that your kid worked at a university that was state controlled, or your mother-in-law was a nurse and the nurses were on a state hospital payroll. and they would get you that way. and so businesses tried to cozy up in order to get the benefits of this kind of cronyism, but

nobody wants to be too powerful in orban's hungary. orban needs to be the most powerful. if you gain too much, you're going to fall. so there's no loyalty, there's no help by cozying up. you might just be the next round in the russian roulette. >> so if business is a sleep at the switch -- asleep at the switch, republicans have their foot on the gas pedal in driving our country toward something that doesn't look like democracy at all, amanda. this is the republican party has broken my heart too many times in the era of trump. one by standing by as he cozied up to and welcomed and sought help from vladimir putin. but over and over again, i mean, mitch mcconnell endorsing him this week, mitch mcconnell sees the world the way liz cheney sees the world. one has a spine and the other has something else where a spine is supposed to go. what explains the republicans accelerating america's slide toward autocracy? >> i would say in particular

when it comes to orban, and i've got to say it's a pleasure to be on with anne and rach whole are absolute pioneers and lights in this field of dark but important study. but i see how orban came to be embraced by conservatives -- it pains me so much to say this because i come from that world like you where i once considered going to places like heritage that now put him on a platform as a friendly place. almost like a political home. and what they see in orban is someone who -- on a surface level someone who took on the woke left and the communists and won, right? and made hungary a -- a state for christians and protects them. a lot of the stuff is housed under stringent immigration policy, protection of the family, going after transgender stuff. like a lot of same themes that we see happening in america here. but the people who know, the people who are surrounding trump, who study orban, realize

that he was able to exercise that strength because he took over the levers of government just in the ways that anne and rachel explained. he consolidated power to wield it so that he could tilt the playing field in a way that he would not lose again. i think that's the real appeal that orban has for trump. in him they see a model. okay, he was ousted from power in 2016 and he spent that time -- 2006 and he spent that time laying the groundwork. once he got back in, he would build what he described as a central political force field so that he wouldn't -- they will reign power for the next 15 or 20 years. that's what happened. he's been there for 14 years, and he's campaigning for his fifth term now. and so you know, we're not going to be able to replicate that same model here because orban had two-thirds supermajority where they could do things like rewrite the constitution. but the way that trump and others would like to replicate that here is by remaking the federal government. that is going to be their central political force field to exercise power in the ways that

rachel was describing. the regulatory retaliation where you have appointees, you know, not just in places like the department of justice where i know you -- i've listened to so many of your excellent experts talking about how a takeover at the department of justice would hurt rule of law. but replicate that model across the federal government in places like the fcc that controls media licenses, at the epa, the list goes on, chamber of commerce. and so that is how the field of power would be tilted here and why you see this continued embrace in rolling out of the red carpet for orban to come and american conservatives going to hungary to take lessons and build relationships. >> all right. no one is going anywhere. we'll go through some of those examples that amanda just listed. we're also going to talk about whether top democrat in the house intelligence committee says the disgraced ex-president is a worst appeaser than the most famous appeaser, neville chamberlain.

the fears that he could sell out ukraine to vladimir putin in a second term in the white house next. plus, the contrast between president joe biden and donald trump as this general election campaign gets under way could not be more stark. the president gets set to deliver his "state of the union" address, our good friend seth meyers captured the former guy about as well as any human can do. we'll play it for you. and more on the extreme maga republican running for governor of north carolina. the man who wants to go back to a time when women could not vote is someone donald trump has described as, quote, martin luther king jr. on steroids. "deadline white house "it's not. .

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in response to russia's illegal war in ukraine that commenced two years ago, the united states and our allies strengthened nato, the militarial lines the, displaying such a show of force against vladimir putin's aggression that other countries were eager to join. today the 32nd member of nato formally sdwrernd the alliance, sweden. secretary of state antony blinken spoke about sweden's shift from neutrality. >> swedes realize something profound, that if putin was willing to try to erase one neighbor from the map, then he might well not stop there. >> the need to display strength and unity in the face of russian president vladimir putin was something the top democrat on the house intelligence committee, jim himes, discussed with a lot of candor on a podcast earlier. he was asked what would happen if trump were in power and if,

when it came to putin, he would act more like neville chamberlain who let hitler expand german territory in the 1930s. listen. >> i think that's giving donald trump way too much credit. you know, they both may be undertaking an act of appeasement, but neville chamber, love him or hate him, probably thought this through. donald trump is a little bit of a single-celled organism. he responds to one stimulus and one only, does this make me feel good or bad. ukraine makes him feel bad because he got impeached over ukraine. >> anne, on both of these elements, on trump as an appeaser, i, too, think it's something worse than that because appeasement is a policy. trump is -- these are pro-putin, pro-orban. also on today's big news about sweden, your thoughts? >> so yes, it's true neville

chamberlain was acting on, he thought on, behalf of his country, and i'm not convinced that donald trump is acting on behalf of his country when he -- when he convinces republicans to blockade to ukraine which is what he's done for the last several months. i mean, if you take a step back, it's really very extraordinary that, you know, he's not the president, he's not in power. and yet he has weaponized a minority in the house of representatives to block the president's policy. and it has succeeded now for several months, and we're still waiting for -- for resolution. and i don't think that's in america's interests. i don't think it's in our allies' interests. i think he imagines it somehow in his interest. i've heard a lot of versions of this. one is that he wants some deal to do with russia and the oil markets or he imagines he'll, you know, he'll somehow end the war by giving most of ukraine over to russia and that will somehow -- that was somehow be

good for him or be good for his friends. and it's a very, very -- you know, a very ugly policy, and it's -- borderline treasonous because -- why did sweden join nato? why did finland? they believe in the united states, they believe in the values that we stand for. trump is saying i don't stand for those values anymore. >> anne, what is the sort of read on trump elevating orban in parts of the world that do not benefit from a strong washington orban alliance? >> i mean, most of europe is horrified. orban is inside europe, he's an outlier. he's a problem. he's the voice of russia inside europe, inside european arguments and debates. he's seen as someone who's anti-european, who causes nothing but trouble for their -- for the other allies.

and the fact that trump, that an american president, former president, and maybe future president would align with someone who plays that kind of role, you know, means that everybody is now questioning what's the future of nato, should we be hedging, should we be acquiring nuclear weapons. people are beginning to think about really stark -- apocalyptic scenarios. >> you know, when you dive in with -- as expert as all three of you, it can feel very dark. one of the lights that people have point the me toward is the more people that understand that a strong man doesn't care about you, so you may be attracted to said strong man. strong man isn't attracted to you at all. and rachel, tim snyder put a fine point on that and said once he's elected he never looks back. he tries to cozy up to other strong men. that becomes his circle. trump is almost skipping the part where he reprends to care about the people who care about

a strong man and skipping ahead to the cozying up part. he carries around i think one of the things he reportedly took were his letters and photos with kim jong-un. the meeting with orban. what is your -- looking at history and looking at other countries that have slid toward autocracy, what gives you hope if anything? >> so i have a lot of hope in the american people actually. america has always had 20% or 30% of our country that likes this kind of strongman politics. that's not changed. in fact, it's probably lesser now than it's been at many other times in our history. but what we have now is the first time in history the biggest majority for a multiethnic, inclusive, multiracial america, the biggest we've ever had, a vast majority. and if we can just get those people to vote, then we will have a policy in which america can stand for our values on the international scene. now hungary is, as anne was saying, really russia's wedge

into europe. hungary has been doing putin's bidding, and this is an incredibly dangerous situation because we've seen this movie before. not exactly, but as -- as the democratic intelligence leader was saying, we've seen what appeasement looks like when you appease a strong man like putin. they don't stop at one country. they will continue, and putin, in fact, has already tried to reach other countries on his border. and so having america stand with democracy is incredibly important because, you know, this is a pretty cheap deal for us. we give bullets, we give equipment, we give military assistance to ukraine, but it's their men that are dying. it's not ours. >> yeah, yeah. i mean -- >> if we change that equation, it will be ours. >> right. and this is the argument that the president zelenskyy makes. you know, amanda, one of the most stunning things is to see republicans disparage president zelenskyy. not all of them, but enough of them, with no condemnation from

the ones who understand exactly what rachel articulated. ukraine is there fighting our adversary. putin attacked our democracy in '16 and '20 and plans it again in '24 with his same wing man. i mean, what do you think if anything breaks the appeasement that the republican party is engaged in of vladimir putin? >> well, i want to end with some hope, too, to keep the light going. i think there is enough anti-authoritarian muscle memory in the american dna. you know, even when i look at republicans and conservatives, the red conservatives that celebrate the great american victories in world war ii where he secured freedom for us and the world, that we -- once you understand the strongman tactic of beating up on marginalized communities, whether it be immigrants or african americans or transgender and gay and lesbian community members, once you realize that that is just a tactic to seize and maximalize

power to keep and enrich the ruling class as it's happened -- happening in hungary, happened in many other countries, once you realize that is the bait and switch and that is your call to fight for freedom here at home in any way that you can, i think we're already seeing it. i think you're already seeing it, and this is a tough time now. but keep eye on the ball. we're all americans in this together. and once we understand that, i think it's going to be okay. >> so i'm going to borrow and hijack your optimism and let it replace my deep, deep anxiety. anne, amanda, rachel, it's an honor to speak to the three of you. to be continued i hope. thank you so much for starting us off. ahead for us around here, it's "state of the union" night. and we still have the other guy to contend with, right? it's all right there on trump's record. impeached twice, indicted four times. we say it every time we cover him. our friend seth meyers went next

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so if tonight's "state of the union" address on the part of president joe biden is in part him presenting a resume of sorts to the american voter, then we should apple to apple, right, take a few moments to consider the resume of the other guy on. that front, seth meyers has this

covered. >> well, here we are, you guys. donald trump is now the presumptive gop nominee for president again for a third time, despite the fact that he's a twice impeached four-time criminal indictee racist banned from doing business in the state of new york for three years. over half a billion dollars in fines, took millions from foreign governments while he was president. tried to extort a foreign country to interfere in an election in 2020. and encouraged another to help him win in 2016. undermined the nation's response to a one in a lifetime pandemic and let a deadly disease spiral out of control is about to go trial for breaking campaign finance laws by paying hush money to cover up an affair during the 2016 campaign. orchestrated a months' long coup attempt that culminated in an interruption to the peaceful transfer of power. stole classified documents and obstructed to get them back. has been rejected by a majority

of americans in election after election. spews deranged conspiracy theories about everything from climate change to immigration to vaccines to windmills. glitches on three syllable words, two sillble words and one syllable words. cheats at golf. can't spell his own name, his wife's name or the words indicted, education, unprecedented, stolen, denmark, kentucky, or tapp. on top of everything else the single weirdest, most off putting human being on the face of the [ bleep ] planet. and this is the same planet ted cruz lives on, so that's saying something. >> going to find a way to play that early and often. joining our conversation, biden white house senior adviser anita dunne joining us at the table. form assistant u.s. attorney maya wiley. plus host of "fast politics," the podcast and special correspondent for "vanity fair" molly jo fast is back. anita dunn, i know the days are busy, there are people trying to get stuff in it. and people like you sometimes

trying to -- i won't say take stuff out but edit, streamline for time. tell me what we should look forward to tonight. >> first of all, it's great to have you back and have the annual "state of the union" chat. >> a good ritual. >> exactly. i think seth meyers set it up well. what you'll see tonight is a real contrast. i could kind of end it there, i think. but -- but the president will make -- will outline for this nation his vision of moving this country forward, of defending freedom abroad and here at home, of defending democracy and everything that it makes possible, and most importantly of putting middle class and working-class families first in this economy. so working to lower the prices that we know are still too high. working to address some of the

issues that we know everyday families are facing, and to have a tax code that is fair. and finally, has the wealthiest people in this country to pay their fair share and not have the middle class carry all the tax burden. so i think you can expect to see that and a lot more tonight. >> you know, i wonder how you feel after tuesday. i mean, your opponent has this huge political headwind. i know these aren't normal times, but in -- in my day it would be a big deal and a big political liability to have 30% to 50% of republicans voting against the republican nominee. but in this bizarre reality it's mostly democrats who are wringing their hands and worried about the president's poll numbers. what is that like inside? >> well, one of the great strengths that president biden has and that frankly we as a staff had to develop over a very tough race last time was, you know, pretty thick hyde and ability to keep an eye on the ball. we take our lead from the

president. he takes a very long game view. he -- he's very dispalestinianed. he really -- disciplined. he really looks at priorities. i will just tell you, i can't really talk about the election because of the hatch act. i would say that this is a president who has always talked about being present for all of the american people, whose programs -- the investments that we're making in the clean energy of the future, in jobs benefit red states and blue states. this is a president who really does see himself as a president for all americans, and there is a real contrast there between some in the other party. >> so let's give you -- i respect and have also been again in normal times respectful of the hatch act. not really a thing in the trump administration. "politico" reported today that trump is likely to commence intelligence briefings, which i think started in 1952, to make one normal campaign, one of the two people will become

president, so the idea is they're specialwhat steeped in -- somewhat steeped in the issues. this one has been criminally indicted for mishandling classified documents. is there any effort to stop those briefings from happening on the white house part? >> i can't give you any details on that right now. i can say that traditionally people generally get treated as party nominees after they have become the official nominees of their party which is after a convention. i certainly remember that in 2020, then-candidate biden did not start getting intelligence briefings until after he had been officially ruled the democratic nominee which was, of course, in august of 2020. so just for a little context here. so yeah. >> so you're saying even if it does happen, there's a schedule and a calendar that you're not aware has been accelerated to starting before the conventions? >> well, i'm saying that generally speaking people aren't viewed -- aren't viewed as the official nominee of their party until their party has officially

nominated them. so i think it's premature to be having this particular discussion. i think what is important is that as we move forward this administration will, as we have since president biden took office, you know, play by the rules and do what is right and be appropriate in how we handle these things. >> anita dunn, thank you for walking out of your office, out to the north lawn and spending some time to talk to us. good luck tonight. >> always a pleasure. thank you for having me on. we're going to sneak in a quick break and then bring molly and maya into all of it, seth, hungary, orban, "state of the union." you don't want to miss it. we'll be right back. n. you don't want to miss it. we'll be right back. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement.

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we're back with maya and molly. we just solved literally everything during the break. fix everything, save democracy, help -- you know, let's share some with our viewers. what is your sense of what a measure of success would be, you know, at the end of the week? you go trump there yukking it up with -- kanye the super white supremacist guy and orban. it's like a real ticket. right? >> look, i think we have seen historically that biden goes out there, and he's usually -- again, who knows, i'm not psychic -- but he's usually much better than expectations because everyone -- >> that's true. he always wins the expectations game.

>> he does. part of that's trump's fault because trump was always like he's sleepy, he's not smart. he goes out and people go, wow, he's pretty smart. i do actually think this is a very good venue for him. last year he killed it when the republicans started heckling him and he was back and forth with them. and he seemed really sharp. this year mike johnson told republicans not to heckle him because -- he was worried it would give him an opportunity. so i do think he is much more -- and this is -- and i also believe this, people don't -- some people don't believe it, but i think because he's so careful now, it's a much better biden because he's very sort of measured, and he's not as off the cuff as he was historically. so but he's got to sell the accomplishments. look, you know, policy is good politics. >> yeah. >> he's had good policy. >> his agenda i think is mostly more popular than he is. >> yeah. >> and so -- you know, there's that. >> well, there's that, and there's a way to do that in the

"state of the union." i agree with molly about how he shows up. and i think what's so important to understand is he's not speaking to those members of congress. >> but he likes them. i mean, the crazy thing about him on this nights is that -- i work for someone who -- you know, you get a lot of detractors in congress. he'd go up and he was glad -- they all -- he knows them all and likes them. >> it's his house. >> correct. >> he is in his home when he's there. and he's not only the president, he is from the house. this is the point. this is a turnout election. so his audience isn't just, you know, to demonstrate he's presidential or to demonstrate the way in which he is different from trump. you know, it is to demonstrate what some of what anita said, anita dunn said, which is here's what i'm going to show up with, and i'm going to paint a picture of what i'm going to get done. if i -- you know, you can

consider him saying, first of all, she said democracy. if he is not talking about the fact that we were two votes short of passing the john lewis voting rights act, of passing the freedom to vote act, if he doesn't say, look, we know what it means to save democracy, and it means the rights and freedoms that ensure that you get to decide who is here standing before you in this well. and that is something that i am going to do. and by the way, by the way, it is -- it is exactly me who figured out how to use the power to get $137 billion back into the pockets of our college graduates because i understand it's about the economy. and i did that despite the fact, despite the fact that we had a refusal to help us get that done. and i would start painting it out and -- look, if we don't -- i think we heard that, right? it's not just what the policies

are, it's how it's going to affect the people who are sitting at home listening in terms of whether they're hearing their daily lives in it. that's the translation factor. it is that not just that he has accomplishment, it's that he had to do it without help because people made it hard for people who look like me to show up and vote. and the other thing because this was in your previous segment, i just have to say it, we've got to make sure that the narrative, the narrative here is not about whether who's to blame in terms of turnout because we already know, we already know the shenanigans, the rule rigging that is said we're going to make sure that all the efforts of state houses that are controlling how easy or hard it is to votes based in large part on a lie, that seth meyers setup was about lying about what happened in 2020.

all of that is about controlling we the majority who should be able to say yes, we want democracy. we want fairness. we don't want rich people to be the only people who are getting helped and served by the powerful. that's who he needs to be. >> i think there's a republican street fighter if me that wants him to say something like we want a strong border. you see these clowns standing up? they killed it. i was for it, i gave them everything they wanted. so sit your ass down. i would love it if he said something like that. >> i think he will. i do believe he's going to go aggressive on this.

there's no many, no legislation, there's no path. it's just been ignored. the reason it's become a problem is because you can't just ignore things that are happening in this country. i think -- i think that's a real -- >> and they can't just -- scared corner like the wimps that you are. i think it's amazing. >> i think that and i think like $35 insulin, student debt. he's canceled a lot of student debt despite the supreme court. he's gotten a lot done in ways that he hasn't gotten credit for. >> get over the republican okay obstruction. thank you guys for being here, for watching seth with me. when we come back, teleprompter isn't working.

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after the navy investigated his conduct in the white house. it was first reported by "the washington post," jackson, who was a rear admiral when he retired from the navy in 2019 now listed as a captain, his service record shows, which is a bit odd. on. jackson's demotion came after an inspect ore general report that found he drank alcohol, made sexual comments to subordinates, and took the sedative ambien while working as a white house physician. he mistreated subordinates and disparaged, bullied and bealsoed them. now it makes more sense why the ex-president's if thes went swimmingly. another break for us, after we return. swimmingly another break for us, after we return

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