on this new hour of ayman, an exclusive with president joe biden, his first sitdown interview since the state of the union clarifying a misstep in his address, and more. also this hour, another trump in control, lara trump is in rnc leadership, believe it or not, and the question is, what could go wrong? and the zone of interest is an oscar contender that won't let us look away. why? one of the producers is here to discuss that and more. let's do it.

tonight, we begin with that msnbc exclusive interview with my colleague and host, jonathan and president biden, the president and the former president arrived in georgia to hold dueling rallies just 60 miles apart, presenting two radically different visions of america, both after scoring big wins on super tuesday. both campaigns are gearing up for a close race in the battleground state. remember, the margin was so tight in 2020 that trump was indicted for pressuring the secretary of state to find him more votes. jonathan, the president discussed a wide variety of issues including his fight for reproductive access and his controversial handling of the israel hamas war and those comments about the so-called migrant crime wave on the border. here is a clip from the

interview.>> what is your redline with prime minister netanyahu, for instance, the invasion of rafah, is that a redline ?>> it is, but i'm never going to leave israel, the defense is so critical, there's no redline to cut off the iron dome that protects them. they can't have 30,000 more palestinians dead. >> it's great to see you and a great interview. no doubt, but thank you for joining us, i know you are on a tight schedule. you covered a lot during this interview, what stood out to you during your conversation? >> the number one thing that stood out to me, and thank you very much for having me on your show, the thing that stood out to me is that the president

feels liberated to finally be able to get out of the white house, get on the campaign trail and speak freely about where he wants to take the country, how much of a danger donald trump is, and to just sort of mix things up. and in that clip that you showed, ayman, there were two things that stood out to me in that clip. yes, he said there is no redline, for him, when it comes to defending israel. but, he also said there is a redline when it comes to netanyahu. so what i want to know is what are those redlines beyond he can't have 30,000 more palestinians killed on his watch. i got the distinct impression that there are other redlines. when it comes to netanyahu and the prime minister, but he wasn't going to get into those with me on camera. >> notably, the president

walked back something he has been getting heat for this week, his comments on calling an undocumented person an illegal during the state of the union address, that individual allegedly responsible for the killing of lincoln riley in georgia. take a listen to this response.>> i shouldn't have used illegal, it is undocumented and look, when i spoke about the differences between trump and me, one of the things i talked about on the border is the way he talks about these people polluting the blood, i talked about what i'm not going to do, i'm not going to treat any of these people with disrespect. >> and he got a lot of pushback for using his word, from some of his fellow democrats and migrant advocates. does he get a sense that the damage has already been done? what did you make of him walking back these comments quest mark >> he understood the damage that he caused, and he was very

eager to make amends, you could say he was very eager to clean it up but he really wanted to make amends because as he said in the rest of that answer, he understood that use of that word went contrary to the overall message that he is trying to impart to the country, when it comes to what is happening at the border, when it comes to immigration, when it comes to undocumented immigrants in this country, that is why you saw him say, you've got donald trump talking about migrants poisoning the blood of our country. or talking about the so-called crime wave, and other things. and that is contrary to the way the president thinks and feels about this issue. and i did get the very clear sense that he knows he made a mistake and he was very eager to make amends for that mistake.>> let me play for you donald trump responding to

biden's apology in that interview. watch.>> they just told me prior to what i'm doing right now, that joe biden went on television and apologized for calling lincoln's murder illegal, he didn't want to call him illegal. he said, he should have called him an undocumented, not illegal, and he wanted to apologize. he wanted to apologize.>> your thoughts on that, jonathan?>> it is proving the president's point about how hurtful that language is. and you know, let's not forget, this isn't just about people having tender feelings and tender hearts and thinking that folks are being overly

sensitive. it's because of language like that, used by donald trump and used by folks on the far right that people have been incentivized to put targets on the backs of latinos and hispanics in this country. let's not forget that a walmart was shot up by somebody, a walmart that was frequented by a lot of people, but this shooter targeted latinos. because you know, if memory serves, he was concerned about the invasion, which is another word that trump has been using and was using at the time. so, words have power and these kinds of words that degrade and dehumanize people particularly from folks on the right have dangerous power.>> very important reminder of that as well. let me ask you about foreign- policy for a second, because the president, joe biden legend that william burns is in the middle east as they work on a

cease-fire, hopefully before the start of ramadan on monday. did you get any sense that the president would be open to a permanent cease-fire, which is what the thousands of folks across the country have been protesting for and pressing him to declare, not just temporary but a permanent one. does he still have any optimism that might be achieved before monday?>> let me take the first part of your question about the cease-fire, yes, i think the president wants a cease-fire, but i think from what he said and what we have heard from other folks in the administration, a six week cease-fire, the hope is if they can nail that down, it will then be self-perpetuating. that you get that and incentives happen, and you get another week, or another six weeks the hope is to build to a permanent cease-fire. but i do think the president ultimate goal is a permanent cease-fire. what was the second part of

your question? it has been a long day. >> i hear you. it was whether or not he thinks it is optimistic to be achieved by monday. >> well, he is optimistic that a deal can be reached, i don't know if he thinks it can be done by friday. but what this is telling me about his answer, saying that the cia director is there, even though hamas left cairo a couple days ago, we have to remember that just because people leave the table doesn't mean that negotiations end. and that was a signal to me that even though hamas has left, that doesn't mean that diplomacy stopped, and this age we are in, how can diplomacy stop when you have cell phones, you've got internet, all sorts of things so you can keep the conversation going. i'm pretty sure that the president will be surprised if a deal isn't reached by monday, but that doesn't mean that he

and everyone in the administration won't keep pushing and trying to get a cease-fire done point >> my friend, jonathan capehart with an exclusive interview with president biden. great as always, safe travels, we will see you tomorrow. next, can the rnc now officially rename itself the tmc? we will explain. will explain. o. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood y'all wayfair makes it so easy get 50% off your first box to create a home you'll love. it's the talk of the neighborhood. kelly! i just wayfair'd. -that's wayfair... saving time saving money. you wayfair'd your whole bathroom?!

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donald trump's takeover on the republican national committee is officially complete, just two days after the ex-president's remaining rival, nikki haley suspended her presidential bid, the rnc installed a new leadership team hand-picked by trump himself, the chairman, michael watley, and trump's daughter-in-law, lara trump as cochair. with the parties new leadership in place, the rnc is facing its

next hurdle, raising money. right now president biden and his allies have $130 million of cash on hand. for trump, that number is $65 million. trump noted the cash crunch during an acceptance speech, touting a donation chap that she claims has secured that day, but afterwards, she declined to say who actually wrote the check. questions are rising over how that money will be spent with an increasing number of the ex- president's supporters urging the rnc to open it up for trump's mounting legal bills. even members of congress are calling on the party to crack open the bank for the ex- president's personal legal problems. when asked if the rnc should bail trump out, marco rubio said i believe so, and senator lindsey graham said he would not object if the campaign arm came to the disgraced former presidents aid and trying to drain the dial, i will leave it

up to the rnc to figure out what is the best way forward. i just think we need to have help for our nominee as best as we can. help the guy out. isn't this a self proclaimed billionaire? on friday, the ex-president took steps toward combating the growing legal tab, posting a $91 million bond along with a notice to appeal in e. jean carroll's defamation case, that is just a small drop in the bucket. remember, trump is on the hook for more than $464 million for his new york civil fraud judgment, an amount that continues to grow by the day due to interest and despite claiming any deposition for the fraud case to have substantially in excess of $400 million in cash on hand, late last month, trump asked the appellate court to reduce the bond amount to just $100 million, cautioning that he might have to sell properties to get the cash.

the court declined to lower the amount, they did grant the request to pause the three-year band that barred him from pursuing loans from banks in new york. potentially allowing him to collect funds. although donald trump got himself into this financial mess, it is clear that he is doing everything in his power to have someone else clean it up and pay for him. here to discuss that and more, host of the fast politics podcast, and the nbc political analyst, it is great to have you both with us. molly, he has already installed his loyalists at the rnc, it is a signal of what to come and along with michael watley and his daughter-in-law, lara trump, the ex-president's senior campaign adviser will also be made the rnc chief operating officer. is the mega takeover of the gop

officially complete?>> yeah, look, it has been this way for a long time and remember, even when she took the job, she still had to take romney out of her name, so there has been a lot of trump appeasement. but i would say that what is pretty interesting about this, you know, she ended up being removed because they weren't killing it with the fundraising. so they put in trump's daughter- in-law. i don't know that will help with the fundraising. some of what is happening is, donors have some pause about paying the legal fees, as they should. i'm not convinced, it is not a huge surprise of her holding a check, then later refusing to answer questions about the check. but, i do think, in a funny

way, she is kind of in a terrible position because she's not in a better position to raise money and you have all these donors who had real relationships with ronna. so, i actually think this may ultimately backfire on trump world.>> this new leadership team is expected to further embrace trumps baseless claims of election fraud, how dangerous is it to our political process if the rnc, basically the republican party's leadership does the ex- president's dirty work for him?>> it is incredibly dangerous, and i think the concern does not need to be as much can lara trump turnaround fundraising mike we will see, maybe she has a way to funnel money, but i think it is how she directs that spending, to your point, doesn't get directed ultimately in the

direction of donald trump's legal bills. i believe it will, absolutely without question, get into the republican national committee will go to pay donald trump's legal bills. how does that relate to your specific question? that would mean that the republican national committee as an organization, as the party itself, very well may be supporting donald trump's defense or past legal bills as it relates to now being found liable for sexual assault, will some of that go to the e. jean carroll case because he says he was unfairly targeted? will the money go against the insurrection he caused against the united states, because now this goes beyond donald trump and it is about the republican national committee. when you show quotes like those from marco rubio and lindsey graham, this is their blessing of all of donald trump malfeasance, his alleged criminality and where he has been found culpable for civil liability for the rnc now owns

this and laura trump make sure that they own it and donald trump will celebrate that ownership. >> and the rnc is trying to tamper down the concerns from the members who are worried the group would help pay trumps mounting legal bills, but his daughter-in-law has said that she thought the idea would receive support among the party's base bid why are trump supporters so willing to hand over their money to a man who claims to be worth aliens of dollars? why do they fall for the grace that is trump?>> you know, it is a question as old as 2015. none of us really know, he's got some kind of hold on his face, god knows why. but, he's going to run through that money pretty fast. when lara trump was holding up the check, $100,000, that is like a retainer for a lot of these lawyers. so i do think, and i'm not convinced by the way that

spending the money on his legal bills is a worse use of it than spending the money on carey lakes second statewide campaign in two years. what this party is up to is so wild but again, trump has control of the party, marco rubio is yet another person who has really just been destroyed by trump and is just a husk of a shell of a person at this point.>> congressman, do you think there's any legal problem for the rnc to undertake this, just from your experience and politics, what do the rules say about the rnc and what they can and cannot do for somebody like donald trump and certainly with this nepotism of having his daughter-in-law in this powerful position?>> it comes down to the internal organizational rules of the rnc and the disclosures they make it to their donors. you saw in the past several years, there have been

fundraising solicitations, if you read the fine print, 90% is basically going to donald trump for some other activity than what the governor thinks they are contributing to. you did see resistance within the rnc, you saw a member of the committee itself make a motion and circulate it suggesting that they prohibit use of funds for donald trump's legal bills, ultimately that did not succeed. and the reason that member offered it is because a number of republicans do think the contributions to the rnc should be used to elect republican candidates, not to pay legal bills. this was not a primary, this was a coronation where donald trump affirmed his complete control of the party and if he wants the money for the legal bills, the party is going to give it to him. i think it'll be good for democratic candidates who seem more competitive races because there's fewer resources for their approach. >> the legal woes continue to grow by the day, this week he was ordered to pay six figures

to a company founded by christopher steele, of course we know that name from the steel dossier, and it was because trump basically sued him, claiming to, christopher steele rather who unsuccessfully sued over this so-called steele dossier. he projects himself as a winner and has constantly been losing these legal battles and keeps running himself more and more in legal debt.>> yes. and i mean, look, there are a number of things here that don't quite track. for example, trump is a billionaire but he had to get a bond. and now up to a $91 million bond for e. jean carroll, and trump is a winner but he keeps losing. today, trump defamed e. jean

carroll again, which means there could be number three, which would be another lawsuit and it is certainly possible. so i do think, look, he has tried very hard to use these court cases as a campaign rally, he has sort of been candidate trump instead of defendant trump, and actually, candidate trump has really hurt defendant trump, and he told the judge that he had so much money and he was worth whatever, and had he just sort of been like look, i don't have the cash, he could have had a much lower fee. so, i think it is really quite, he has done this to himself. >> molly and david, we will talk to you again later on, the 2024 presidential election will be a fight for democracy but it is just a drop in the bucket when you look at elections

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november is set to be another fight for democracy but it is part of a larger global trend that we are seeing in 2024 where more than 4 billion people are set to go to the polls. ben smith says there are two political forces at play, many of the elections around the globe, first, the rise of a new right populism that has transformed politics in the u.s. and in europe. and second, a new kind of authoritarian role which is democratic in name only, something we will see in russia later this month. to track the most critical contests in candidates around the world, they have launched the inaugural global election hub, joining me to discuss this is ben smith, editor in chief,

thank you for making time. let's talk about these movements and see how they are playing out. you've got the rise of right- wing populism, the rise of authoritarian rulers under the guise of democracy playing out around the world, why is it so important to follow where and how this is unfolding, do you think? >> i think everybody in the world certainly in the united states is focused on what is happening in their own country which obviously makes sense but i think it can be misleading, you can sort of imagine and think everything that has happened is a result of american history, domestic politics, things that happened whether it was the 1970s or last year here. but when you look around the world, you cds very familiar patterns. you have these confrontational right-wing leaders, many of whom have the same haircut by the way. you know, building huge followings around hostility, and figuring out what ways trump is just an under the

american figure and what ways he is a part of a global trend is really important to understand what is going on. >> i just want to pick a few countries and get your thoughts, mexico's presidential election which takes place in june ranked number one on the hot list of contests to watch. what is at stake and why was it ranked number one?>> well, it's an incredibly important contest, although what you have, it is the one place you really see stability and continuity. what you see is unusual, a left wing populace, who has taken the kind of very aggressive approach particularly to the media. that you do see often from the right, both these confrontational press conferences and using state power, particularly state advertising to control the media and his party's candidate

is cruising to an election.>> you recently wrote that the vast majority of political journalism is national, which is understandable, it tends to look inwards from whether it is washington or west minister or new delhi, the centers of power. someone who is a fan of looking outward, i want your thoughts on why it is important to look beyond what is going on in our own country, some places that may not make the headlines regularly, or even a place like turkey all included? >> i think portugal is one, you and i are probably not spending our time thinking about the portuguese elections, but if you look at them, you will see something incredibly familiar, the new right wing party, it is translated as now we've had

enough. coming out of nowhere, to look strong in the polls as the traditional left and right parties, that is a trend you see across europe. when they talked about the migrants from africa in the middle east, and it could just as easily be here with changing the language from portuguese. >> let me ask you about the message to journalists, i know we can talk about this for hours, there are a lot of lessons to be learned, but what would you say is a message to journalists reporting on this year's political contact -- contest specifically. when it comes to drawing connections between political movements around the world, is there a theme we should be mindful of when we have these discussions is to mark>> i think there are two things, one, i think american journalists can get very tied up in this sort of

particularities, in 2020, there was this very intense conversation about race and racism and i think there were arguments that trump is the singular product of america's problems. and when you look around the world, that is a very hard argument to keep making because he is very clearly part of this global trend of right-wing populism. the other thing that i think journalists need to think about is the extent to which one unites these anti-establishment candidates, left or right, and their attacks on media and the ways in which the media can hold its ground in the face of these attacks, without becoming a natural foil, not giving them what they want.>> that is a very important point and very important lessons to keep in mind as our political election season heats up. ben smith, thank you so much,

this is a very important piece of journalism, thank you.>> thanks for having me on. i know your viewers were eager to hear about the portuguese election.>> take care, my friend. thank you. we will be right back with our words of the week, featuring a clown car of a republican show at this year's state of the union. the union. ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog's food to the farmer's dog, the effects can seem like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. i'm kareem abdul-jabbar. i was diagnosed with afib. it's just smarter, healthier pet food. when i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going,

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cosby and adolf hitler on his facebook. the opponent is not just one, but three people, due to their performances during the state of the union, worst of the week favorite, expelled congressman, george santos, who announced he is running for office again, combined with marjorie taylor greene who broke the rules by wearing whatever that was, and also heckling the president. and of course alabama senator, katie britt who used the national spotlight to do something bizarre with her response to the state of the union.>> the american dream has turned into a nightmare. life is getting more and more dangerous. we have become a nation in retreat. mr. president, enough is enough. innocent americans are dying and you only have yourself to blame. goodness, bless his heart.>> i

don't even know where to begin. molly, david are both back with me. molly, you have done a few of the segments, this one takes the cake but i've got to ask you, who do you have between mark robinson and the trio of republicans at the state of the union?>> it is a very hard choice. you know, i would say that katie britt's overreacting was just amazing, but remember, they never do well with that, it has never been a good performance for republicans. i do ultimately think that george santos running again, against nicola, he is my worst of the week, because he was kicked out of congress and he

comes back for the state of the union. i just think -- >> do you know how he actually got back into the state of the union? generally, how is he allowed to come back into the halls of congress?>> i think the rules are that you can, but i don't know, like so many things with george santos, it seems pretty dicey.>> congressman, how about you, the trio of republicans or mark robinson? >> quickly on santos, any former member can walk back on the floor, they have privileges, and i suggest that rule needs to be tightened up. >> i was going to say, i think after this week, that is a safe argument to make.>> look, i would say among the three republicans, it is par for the course, racism, misogyny, islamophobia, go down the list,

anti-semitism, we see that baked into a lot of candidates so i'm not too concerned about that, the criminality of santos we all have seen before. but, senator katie britt, bless your heart, back at you. and look, this was cringe worthy, but i would say this in a very real way, it screams white privilege. and somehow this lady is terrified of something that is so statistically not relevant to most people's way of life, but she is threatened by it, she is threatened by the surge of migrants and uses the terms criminality, and i think that leans into the raw xenophobia we saw, it might have been dressed up, and she had a cross around her neck, but it is exactly what you hear from donald trump when he says immigrants poison the blood of americans. katie britt just used for language and i think that

should be a flag for the country.>> listen, as somebody who sits through a lot of these segments about the worst of the week, katie britt is interesting because i can't recall anybody ever using the state of the union to launch some kind of national profile. of all the people that have done the state of the union, just totally have tanked their careers, it is the fastest way to basically put yourself in the dustbin of political history in this country. i've got to ask you, of all the crazy things that we have listed in the intro about robinson, he also suggested 9/11 and the moon landing were fake, and transgender women should be arrested over bathroom use. and here is what donald trump who endorsed robinson had to say about him just last week. watch. >> i think you are better than martin luther king, i think you are martin luther king times two. this is martin luther king on

steroids.>> what do you think of that, congressman? >> there are elements in this party represented by donald trump, they should be called out for being despicable, we don't know what is in somebody else's heart but we know what is on their lips. and they should be condemned to that.>> molly, your thoughts?>> so racist, just unbelievable. and again, the anti-semitism, i mean, and the conspiracy theories, trump has terrible candidates, he always has and he always will, i mean, this is the brand, his candidates have always been great for democrats.>> you made me have to think about something i didn't even want to think about

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the chameleon is nothing like anyone you've ever faced. she is capable of mimicking any shape. awesome. i mean it's disturbing, but it's awesome. historical drama, the zone of interest could be a dark horse candidate tomorrow night at the oscars, with nominations in five categories including best picture and international featured film the film follows the lives of a nazi commandant and his wife and children, whose home is next to the auschwitz concentration camp, it is a story about denial and complicity, a family turning away from cruelty and murder just over their garden wall. here is a clip.

>> joining me now to discuss this is jim wilson, one of the producers, it is great to have you on the show, this is a brilliant movie and just very thought-provoking in so many ways, you and the director, jonathan glazer spent about a decade thinking through potential approaches to the subject matter. talk to us about what challenges came up as you tried to tell this story of an extremely dark time in human history, in a different way than most people have seen before.>> thank you very much for having me on the show, ayman. yes, it came out of jonathan glazer talking about the holocaust, but in a way that was different from before, and

john hurt about the novel, the zone of interest by martin amis, and with a fictional plot , but partly told from their point of view and from a domestic work perspective, almost like the executive, and it was that perspective, the perpetrators point of view rather than the victims or saviors of the victims that is perhaps for me, was the spark. and it seems like that point of view might ask interesting and challenging questions reflecting us, the audience, and john and myself on that journey, and perhaps confronting us in the present. it was different in the way the holocaust is normally narrated,

so when we search the background of this novel, it was apparent very quickly that it was based on auschwitz and how he lived his life with his family next to the camp, with their garden walls exactly up to the camp. and we saw photographs of that, and essentially what is in the film which was shot right next to the camp, is every creation of what was in those photographs with the kids playing in the garden, the toys and on a summer day, with auschwitz in full operation, the first gas chamber is about 100 meters behind the wall where there is a greenhouse. and it was that point that john was like, okay, i want the film to be about that, the real situation, the condition. i don't want it to be hanging on a plot, so to look for the similarities with the perpetrators rather than the differences.

and to ask the question, not so much how could these ordinary people do such terrible things, which is the banality of evil, but also to go a little bit further and say how much like them might we be? and the challenge was, to always mean into that identity, to try to look to those similarities, while i suppose everything about how you would think you would approach the subject would be to not. that happened 80 years ago, it is this monstrous event that has got nothing to do with me. the challenge was always to push against that, to push against that. >> let me ask you, something you said, during your acceptance speech, for best film, you spoke about the walls we construct in our lives and

refused to look behind, and you drew parallels between that theme in the film and what we are seeing now in gaza and the killing of civilians but can you elaborate on that comparison and why you felt it was important to acknowledge it in the context of this film?>> well, i don't know if you clipped the speech or anything, but i refer to the killing, the ongoing massacre of civilians in gaza. and i mentioned yemen, and i referred to the mass killing of innocent civilians in israel and indeed in the ukraine, and how we appear as a culture and our governments to have empathy that is different, that is selective. and i was making the point that i felt our empathy should be universal. in terms of the film, you know,

politics felt organic to the question of the film, when we were talking about it before. and you know, the nazi was extreme, but it had echoes with exploitations and scapegoats that dehumanize the people and many conflicts going back centuries of racism and imperialism, look at centuries of the slave trade and through the holocaust and after it until now. but, we said the film is about the present and we try to make it in a way that it would reflect the present. and that indiscriminate mass killing, starving of innocent people in gaza, as a retaliation to the horrors of october 7th is happening in the present. so, it felt that, it feels to

me, to think, to accept that mass killing as a collateral damage to the military aim, you have to have dehumanized those people in some way and in some ways, that is the very thin end of the thick edge of the wedge that is happening in the zone of interest, so that is why i felt there was something to be said about that. >> we are so thankful for the words that you said and we are so thankful for this movie, we wish you the best of luck, and to everyone else who worked on it. and appreciate you coming on the show this evening. and thank you for making time for us, i'm ayman mohyeldin. until we meet again, have a great night. great night. .p. mo rg lth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday.

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