i'm katy tur in for chris jansing. what does it mean for texas to enforce their own immigration law? the right is being argued in court as local texas law enforcement says they are not ready and they are not equipped to take that job on. plus, what is the fed going to do. there's an interest rate announcement happening right

now. will it get easier to finance a house? plus, what will the senate do with tiktok, the intelligence community is briefing the upper chamber on national security concerns. will it push senators to ban the app? our nbc news reporters are following all of this and more. let's bring in from texas, nbc's david noriega from eagle pass as the fifth circuit court of appeals decides what to do with senate bill 4. what does local law enforcement say about their ability to enforce this law if it goes into effect? david, can you hear me now? guys, i don't think david can hear us. i'm going to venture to guess -- there we go. >> reporter: the attorney representing the texas side of the arguments was repeatedly asked specific questions about what this law, sb4 would look

like were it to actually be implemented. now, on a number of occasions, he was actually just not able to answer that question. when it comes, for example, to how will people will removed to mexico, according to the removal provisions in this really truly unprecedented law. even some of the aspects involving how people would be arrested. one thing to keep in mind with regards to the arrest provisions of this law is that governor abbott under a program known as operation lone star has for three years now been already arresting migrants who crossed the rio grande, but prosecuting them under state trespass laws, so existing statutes, rather than these new statutes that the sb4 would create. i have spoken to a few lawyers who provide pro bono legal council for people who have been arrested under operation lone star. one thing they pointed out is that lone star itself, even under existing state statutes has been riddled with challenges. several judges found the program was unconstitutional on various

grounds. we can definitely expect that those same challenges will happen before it goes into effect. these cases will get bogged down in the courts. that's one other respect in which there is a ton of uncertainty around what this will look like on the ground. it truly is in a lot of ways, uncharted territory. katy. >> david, thank you very much. sorry about those audio issues at the top there. what does the white house think of this? let's bring in nbc's monica alba. the white house has been arguing and the administration has been arguing that enforcing immigration laws is their authority and their authority alone? >> reporter: they think this should be dictated by the federal government and not individual states. you have patch work that's confusing that can create chaos, and in a statement yesterday when the supreme court had temporarily allowed for this to go forward, before that appeals court stepped in and essentially paused it, they said they

fundamentally disagreed with the highest court's decision, and said that was for a couple of reasons. they said they believe this can make communities less safe and that also it does place, they argue, an undue burden on law enforcement and sewing that chaos and confusion at the southern border. they argue that this law, known as sb4 is another example of republican officials politicizing the border while blocking real solutions. so what they're referring to in terms of a potential real solution was that bipartisan border deal that democrats and republicans had come together to negotiate for weeks and weeks before it was torpedoed earlier this year by some of those same very republicans who were a part of negotiations. largely because former president trump had sort of directed congressional republicans to reject it in order not to give the current president any kind of a political victory on this real hot button issue of immigration. setting that aside, the biden

administration argues the way to do this is through a comprehensive immigration reform system. because the president is the one saying it's completely broken and needs fixing but that it shouldn't be up to the states to take this on. they have been very very critical of texas governor abbott in doing this over the last couple of weeks. they're hopeful this potential pause could last for a little bit of time for the administration to make their case, and then it could be kicked back up to the supreme court. and they say they may have enough time there to try to make these different arguments that speak to the federal versus state issue. but it's something where mexico is already saying, katy, that they don't want to take people who might be deported from texas, if this law does advance, and so then that leaves the u.s. and this other diplomatic challenge where they need the cooperation of mexico to try to really tackle and address this issue that has been plaguing this administration and others of both parties for decades. katy. >> what about the republican claim that the president has authority at the border, that he's just not using it.

what does the white house say about that? >> in this bipartisan border deal, had it gone forward, had it been approved, the president says he would have signed it. it would have included this authority to effectively temporarily shut down the border if crossings reached a certain threshold and level. so the biden administration has argued that they needed that power of congress to be able to do that. now, through our own reporting, we have pointed out that for weeks there have been other executive actions or unilateral action that the biden administration has been weighing to raise the bar on asylum, to make it more difficult to ask for asylum if you're coming in to this country, and there are a couple of other ways, potentially, in which they would pass something like that to make it more difficult, and that the president could still do that, but at the same time, they argue that that really pales in comparison to what a giant package in legislation would have done when it comes to enforcing this. we're talking about funding. we're talking about personnel. you need all of that to kind of

execute on these priorities if you're going to be making these policy changes. the position of the administration is that that's what needs to happen. something much bigger in order to really address the issue, katy. >> monica, thank you very much. and now to capitol hill where senators are being shown how dangerous tiktok is to national security. nbc's ali vitali is there for us. what have senators been saying outside of that briefing? >> reporter: look, the briefing itself, katy, was classified, but what senators are saying is that there are pieces of that briefing that, a, they want made public, but, b, are already sort of in the public conversation. the idea of the algorithm being manipulated, for example, to press different ideas forward that china could be wanting the platform to push. but i think what is really important here is what senator mark warner, the head of the intelligence committee, one of the committees that put this briefing together, he wanted to make clear, this is not banning

tiktok, it's about reforming it, effectively. listen. >> this legislation is not about banning tiktok. it's making a transition from the current control by the communist party of china to some other owner. >> tiktok is a gun aimed at americans' heads. the chinese communists are weaponizing information that they are constantly surreptitiously collecting from 170 million americans. i think this information ought to be declassified. the american people should be told everything that we heard. there is absolutely no reason to keep it secret. >> reporter: so blumenthal there with a pretty dire warning, calling tiktok a gun aimed at the head of americans. that, then, leads to the question of wouldn't you want to disarm that threat as immediately as possible? the conversations i had with senators today is that there is a concern, there is an urgency, but there's also a very long to-do list of other things that they have to do in the senate, not least of all, government funding. that of course has that friday

deadline. but they're also still trying to contend with the supplemental package for foreign aid for various other countries. this is still high on the list, but certainly not the next thing that they're hoping to tackle. while there is an urgency, there is no time line at all on the senate side around tiktok. all of that still very up in the air, as everyone in bipartisan fashion agrees that something has to be done here in regards to tiktok. >> ali vitali, thank you very much. now let's get to nbc's brian cheung with the breaking news from the fed. what is the decision? >> the decision was as expected, the federal reserve not doing anything on interest rates. they continue to target short-term rates between 5 1/4 and 5 1/2%. all we need to know here is their assessment on the economy is essentially in a wait and see mode. we know that the federal reserve has been trying to tackle this story on inflation.

the yearly rate of inflation around 3.2% as of the last read. the fed wants to get closer to 2%. the committee does not expect it to be appropriate to reduce rate, referring to progress on inflation in the form of the data we get on a monthly basis. what's interesting about this decision is we get economic projections from the policy makers inside the central bank, and they still project the likelihood there could be interest rate cutting coming on later this year. even if we didn't get it today. there could be three interest rate cuts before the end of 2024. that's going to depend on what inflation looks like. they're going to essentially wait and see how the next few months of data play out. we're going to get commentary from fed chairman jay powell later this afternoon in about 20 minutes. he might offer more into the crystal ball for when we could see the rate cuts. the big decision, as expected, the federal reserve not doing anything on interest rates. holding steady on today's meeting. >> brian cheung, thank you very

much. what new york ag letitia james says she will do starting monday if donald trump doesn't post bond. it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades

and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. new york attorney general letitia james says she will seize donald trump's properties if he needs to. her office calls trump's request for leniency on his $464 million bond extraordinary, saying, quote, there is nothing unusual about even billion dollar judgments being fully bonded on appeal, and quote, defendants object to a possible fire sale if they were to sell assets to generate cash to use as collateral for a bond or as a deposit. but the alternative would be to shift the risk of executing on defendants liquid assets to oag. nbc's dasha burns is in west palm beach, and also with me is civil rights attorney and former brooklyn prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman. charles, hold on a second on

that last quote that i read there. i want you to explain it to us in laymen's terms, but first, dasha, what is the trump team saying about posting bond? are they looking at other options or might they just sit back and say, fine, try to seize my assets? >> reporter: well, the former president is not happy about this. he's frustrated, and clearly concerned, and i'm not saying that as a mind reader of his. i'm saying that because he has been putting all of this out directly himself on social media posting about this, katy, relentlessly, saying this is unfair. that this is a witch hunt. he might have to sell off his quote, great assets at a fire sale, and that this is unprecedented, right? well letitia james is saying no, it's not, you better pay up one way or another. this is a problem not only financially, but also politically. we have talked about this time and again, katy, how he has built his brand both personally and politically as a wealthy man, as a businessman, as a

smart and savvy guy in this industry, and this challenges that and could directly impact his future and his children's future. remember, this is not just the kind of money that would impact the former president, but his kids, his grand kids, his empire that he has built. so this is not going to be easy for them. they are looking at options. they're saying they have run out. we will see. but this is going to come to a head one way or another here, katy. >> charles, let's talk about what the attorney general is saying. when they argue that this would shift the burden on to the office of the attorney general, what does that mean? >> well, basically what they're saying, katy, is that now you're putting letitia james in a position where she has to go through the process of going through an appraisal for his properties and what his actual values are, not what he has fraudulently claimed and then on top of that, trying to go

through the mechanism of securing buyers to liquidate properties and satisfy the judgment. that's not something that typically is going to fall on the shoulders of the state attorney general's office. in mostcases, you're going to have someone who actually pays their bond. donald trump can't have it both ways. he can not claim to have this vast amount of wealth in terms of what his properties are worth, and then say he can't satisfy the bond. i think letitia james is putting pressure on the court to do its job and hold donald trump accountable in the ways that they have already done so with respect to this judgment but also the satisfaction of this judgment and not shift that to the attorney general where she will have to go through the long and protracted procedure of actually seizing control of these properties and then doing all of the things that the a.g.'s office doesn't do. they're not a real estate agent. they don't necessarily deal in the liquidation of real property but that's a mechanism they may have to take to satisfy the judgment if the court does not

force donald trump to do so himself. >> we have four days left before monday. what's your expectation of what's going to happen between now and then? >> that's a great question. i anticipate that donald trump is going to find someone who's going to at least, in part, guarantee some degree of surety around this bond. i don't necessarily know whether he's going to get to the whole. i think at this point, with the interest that's accruing, we're somewhere around $462 million. i don't necessarily know that he's going to get that high, but i do expect that we will see some sort of attempt to provide some of the bond or a good portion of the bond and see at that point whether judge engoron, who's the person who actually entered the judgment, heard the trial and made the decision initially, will be inclined to allow him somehow to move forward with half of the surety bond as opposed to the entire thing. that's really what is going to happen. and then, again, to letitia james' point, if it doesn't, if judge engoron decides that you must have all of the bond, which

would be standard practice, then it puts her office in a very difficult position if he does not come up with the money. now they have to go through the long process of securing these properties, seizing them, placing liens on them, and then trying to liquidate. >> charles coleman, thank you very much. dasha burns, thank you as well. and former president trump has so far successfully delayed his january 6th criminal trial with his lawyers arguing his presidential immunity. hundreds of trump supporters who were there at the capitol that day haven't been so lucky or haven't had that option, facing anywhere from a few days to up to 22 years in prison for their actions. nbc's ryan reilly is following this for us, also the author of "sedition hunters," i don't want to call anyone there unlucky, because they did what they did, and the courts have put many of them into prison for pretty violent acts. walk me through the status of these cases. >> yeah, i mean, these cases continue to churn through, so recently there was a

conservative influencer who was arrested. she's seen on video passing an object through a window that was later used to assault police officers that day, but what i did is i tracked a couple of cases that started around the same time as donald trump. donald trump was arrested in august of 2023. he was supposed to be on trial right now under the original outline by judge chutkan. we're supposed to be in the middle of the trump trial in d.c. right now. obviously that has been delayed because of these various delay tactics that the campaign has engaged in, including having the option of arguing for broad presidential immunity. that's not saying that say, the guy who flooded the capitol wearing a panda costume could proclaim. he couldn't say presidential immunity bars him from being charged in connection with a capitol attack. that's an option available to donald trump. one defendant who was charged at about the same time as donald trump was convicted by a jury on four counts, the same number of counts that donald trump faces.

in individual faced only four charges. but that case proceeded basically seven months out. he was arrested around the same time as donald trump, and now he has been convicted. there's another case involving someone who allegedly had a gun, who was arrested the day before donald trump made his first court appearance in d.c. that individual is set to go to trial in september. that's a person who's going to have a verdict before the presidential election, even though donald trump may not. and if he's elected president it's almost certain that this case would get shut down, given precedent from the justice department and officials that you would expect donald trump to put into place there. and what was a man serving 14 years for fraud testifying for in front of a house committee from prison, not lev parnas, another guy today. other. boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space?

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prime minister benjamin netanyahu bypassed the white house. what did he tell them? julie tsirkin is reporting from capitol hill. this is many people have been advising biden to do, bypass president biden to do and speak directly to the knesset. netanyahu is doing it to president biden. what happened in the meeting? >> reporter: i'm told this meeting just wrapped up in the

last few minutes. netanyahu spoke for close to an hour. he was invited by john barrasso, to have republicans reinform their support of netanyahu especially after those remarks made by leader schumer, scathing comments, one by which we're told by senators flooding the room, that netanyahu brought up, said they were shocking comments. he was disappointed by them, and the opportunity for republicans to ask questions of the prime minister to get an update on both what israel needs in their war effort but also there were some questions including the civilian death toll in gaza. one republican told members of or team that was pointedly asked of netanyahu, and netanyahu was quote very mindful in giving that answer. i did, however, get a chance this morning to ask speaker johnson about something else, comments made by former president trump saying that any jewish american who votes for democrats, who supports democrats is hateful against

israel and is hateful against their religion. here's what johnson had to say to me about that. >> i don't speak for president trump, but i understand the sentiment that he's trying to express. i mean, if you look at the voting records. look at the israel funding. we talked about the supplemental. i've tried on two different occasions to push the israel funding request through. we did it with a pay for initially right out of the blocks, after i became speaker and a clean israel bill, and the president issued a veto threat over that. i was stunned. i actually couldn't believe that he did that. >> reporter: and johnson also said that trump's language is his language but clearly agreeing with the sentiment there. johnson also said that he too spoke to netanyahu earlier this morning, again, bringing up those comments made by schumer when he called for essentially a government change in israel to call for elections last week, a speech that many republicans pretty much unanimously have condemned here, and one in which netanyahu brought up himself

during the closed door remarks last hour here. katy. >> julie, thank you very much. and it was arguably unserious on the other side of the capitol as the democrats and republicans in house oversight and judiciary wrestled with each other over the fledgling gop impeachment inquiry. >> if hunter biden were here, we would be able to ask him some questions, clear this up. but he's not. >> mr. chairman, someone appears to be lying to the committee. >> today marks the end of perhaps the most spectacular failure in the history of congressional investigations. >> americans don't need hunter's testimony to know they are being gas lit by this president. >> at one point, democratic rep, jared moskowitz showed up in a vladimir putin mask in an attempt to underscore the democrats' view that the whole square is fueled by russian disinformation. nbc's ken dilanian is in d.c. for us. it seemed like a pretty unserious day. what happened in that hearing room? >> house republicans really

tried all day to find something, anything that might cause their impeachment investigation to resonate with the american people, katy. i'm not sure they succeeded, and yet they always seem to have one more investigative step to take before they uncover that smoking gun. take a listen to the chairman of the effort, james comer. >> there are a lot of problems here. when we get the rest of the information, the credit card information that we have subpoenaed, when we get the rest of the e-mails, then i think we'll be able to take steps to issue our report. >> they brought in a familiar witness, tony bobulinski who said that the biden family was trying to sell, influence an access to joe biden, and once again, provided no evidence of wrong doing by the president. >> what about lev parnas, who we remember from the days of the trump administration and giuliani, and what about the man who testified from federal prison? >> well, lev parnas is a

fascinating case. he went to jail for campaign finance violations, working with rudy giuliani. he's come completely full circle. he is now saying that everything the republicans are saying about the biden family and ukraine are lies, and more than lies, they are russian disinformation. he was a witness on behalf of the democrats having turned on his former trump acolytes. katy. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. and coming up, president biden is about to drop a whole lot of money on tech in arizona. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently.

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nbc news is exclusively reporting the kennedy family is stepping up its effort to help president biden's reelection campaign as the independent candidacy of their family member robert f. kennedy poses a risk as a third-party candidate in november. nbc's mike memoli is following this for us. what exactly are they doing? can they convince rfk jr. to not run? >> well, i think that ship has sailed, as one put it to me, when one puts their mind to it, they rarely step it away. most, the overwhelming majority, in fact, of the kennedy family, the extended kennedy family supports president biden's reelection campaign, and they're prepared to be more public about that in the near future. it all started with this photo that got a lot of attention over

the weekend. you had several dozen members of the kennedy family, representing four different branches of that family, three generations, all gathered in the rose garden with president biden as part of a st. patrick's day celebration. the posting of the tweet by kerry kennedy, was intended to send a political message. it's part of certainly what's more to come. you have a big family, 105 kennedys, as rfk jr. himself has said, and they have had disagreements, certainly, in the past, but what we're going to see is some members are going to be much more active in terms of campaigning for president biden on the campaign trail. others will lend their voice, lend their certainly family name to messages designed to either support president biden or as one family member posted rather bluntly, make it clear what they think is at stake, that this could tip the election to donald trump having rfk jr. on the ballot. for president biden, this represents a potential political spoiler in his bid for a second

term. there's so much more at stake for members of the kennedy family. they think the family's legacy is at stake. we're going to see them on the campaign trail soon. president biden wants arizona to stay blue in november, today in an effort to keep voters who chose him in 2020, he's announcing a nearly $20 billion investment in high-tech manufacturing in the state of arizona. money the white house estimates will create 30,000 new jobs. nbc's vaughn hillyard is on the ground for us in arizona. so, vaughn, what exactly is this money going to? >> reporter: right, katy. this is the type of official white house events that could also be very much of a political campaign one because it is tied directly to what he says the consequences of this administration's policies and bipartisan efforts are. and this is today, from president biden, going to be announced, the largest award yet stemming from the c.h.i.p.s act.

$8.5 billion is being awarded to the intel corporation, and $11 billion in loans to go to the development of two manufacturing plants, semiconductor plants here in the east valley of the greater phoenix area. i think the context here for the biden administration is that there have been often stories told about towns and communities that have lost manufacturing jobs, but what you are seeing from the investment and the focus in semiconductor and chips manufacturing is an expansion. there are already 12,000 employees of intel here in chandler, arizona. this investment, these two new plants are going to bring an additional 3,000 jobs, as well as 7,000 manufacturing jobs. intel has been on the front lines. just two years ago in 2022, intel announced a $20 billion semiconductor chip manufacturing plant in ohio. they're also announcing an expansion of investments towards plant manufacturing in new mexico here. this is for the biden

administration, a victory and a win. of course when you're talking about chip manufacturing, there is concern about the fact that the great majority, about 60% of semiconductors currently being manufactured globally are based in taiwan. we saw in 2021, a semiconductor shortage, going to other technologies. and that is where this biden administration put greater focus on having actual domestic chip production here. there is a great amount of chip design that comes out of the united states, but instead, there's an increased emphasis on actually producing the plants here. that is where you saw senators kyrsten sinema and mark kelly of arizona on the front lines. you saw congressman greg stanton, other democratic officials who are going to be standing alongside joe biden for this official white house event, but one that very much resonates with their campaign message of the consequences and the actual

outcomes that come from having a democratic president who is looking towards actual u.s. investments more so than talk in the way that the biden administration would characterize it, katy. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. and coco gauff went home today. the 2023 u.s. open winner got back on the courts of her childhood home of del rey beach, helping to inspire and train up the next generation. we have an exclusive with the 20-year-old champion. >> reporter: before she was thriving on tennis's biggest stages, coco gauff, the 2023 u.s. open winner was an aspiring tennis player, always on these courts with her dad. >> just every day, every morning, 8:00 a.m. just me and him, and just drilling. >> reporter: the family, moving to del rey beach when she was only 8 to test the waters and

see where tennis might take the young athlete with so much potential. >> i don't think anyone knew the extent of how good i was getting and how fast everything was happening. >> we knew she would be a good tennis player. she was working really hard. did we know they would embrace her in the world like they are, we had no clue. >> reporter: now one of the sport's biggest names. >> i'm a product of the strong community and the village it took to get me where i am now. >> reporter: cocoa is back in del rey, trading ground strokes with future stars and this giant kid. >> you're not bad. >> reporter: as she unveils a newly refurbished court part of the $3 million u.s. open legacy initiative honoring gauff. >> reporter: you picked this court first, why here? >> first here, i think it's the court that made the impact to me and the community put so much into me. i have to give back to the community. >> reporter: and giving back is nothing new for coco, she has been doing it her whole life,

reading to children, announcing little league games. the ballpark next door is dedicated to her grandparents. her grandfather integrated the little league team. why her past is so important to her presence. >> this is more than a shoe. this is my story. >> reporter: these are the coordinates from these courts. >> yes. >> reporter: when did you decide to do that, and why? >> i wanted to be a piece of me because i'm not only a tennis player, i have a family, i have a life outside of tennis. >> reporter: but she has plenty of focus for tennis, too. famously upsetting venus williams in 2019 at wimbledon as a 15-year-old, seven years after getting a signed ball from the legendary player. a few years later, coco becoming the youngest american to win the u.s. open since serena williams. >> reporter: who inspired you to become a tennis player?

>> serena and venus, and my dad of course, saw myself in serena and venus, it made me believe i could do something. >> reporter: she has big dreams of more grand slam titles and olympic glory too. after a positive covid test robbed her of a chance to compete in tokyo, she was the first to qualify in her favorite city. >> i want to do it this year and win a medal. that's one of my dreams i wanted to do as a tennis player. >> reporter: who would bet against her, a humble hero who can doll out tough love. demanding five pushups after i ended our rally. the bar is high for someone who cares so deeply. sounds like you would love to have one of these kid in ten years challenge you at the u.s. open. >> i would love that. hopefully i wouldn't lose but i would love it, and i guess if that happened, which it probably will, it would be my cue to maybe leave the game. sam brock, nbc news.

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in trump's current home state of florida, roughly 200,000 republican voters chose nikki haley or ron desantis. same thing in ohio, 200,000 votes for haley and desantis. on the democrat iqbal lot, 13% of the total for dean phillips. and 10% of the total for none of the above in kansas. what do these warnings tell us? joining me now, nbc news chief political analyst, chuck todd, and mark mckinnon, creator of "the circus." chuck, first to you, what do you make of the numbers? >> the nikki haley numbers are of some interest. donald trump has full control of the republican party but not full control of every republican, and this is a party that is divided sort of 2-1. right? about a third of republicans don't want trump to be the leader of the party, and the question really is, how many of those nikki haley voters are

going to vote for trump in the fall. right? can biden get 10% of them, 5% of them? i think anything in that range is, a, realistic. i think the biggest problem he has is convincing that voter to vote. because i think that's going to be the real challenge come the fall based on, you know, ten years of just sort of beaten down over this era that we have been living in. >> do you, mark, think that voters are really going to feel so disillusioned come november, because it's donald trump and joe biden again, a rematch, they're going to feel like their vote doesn't make a difference. there are marked changes between the two men and their respective presidencies. >> maybe just the opposite, maybe they will feel it's more important than ever, which strikes me, katy, as just the disillusionment that so many voters have, not only with both candidates but both parties and

i just can't believe there's not an independent candidate running, nikki haley or mark cuban, bill mcraven, whoever. it seems like a huge opportunity. half the voters identify as independents. i read a column saying don't expect the calvary to ride in at this moment. i would love to see one. people have to double down, you know, grasp the fact that they don't like the candidates, may not like the parties but think about what you believe in, and believe me, it's important, this election, to go to the polls and vote for it. if you cherish what you believe in, it may not be in the state you want it to be. >> what do you mean by the calgary, it's not coming? >> i talk to voters all the time and think, there's going to be some independent camp that appears, oh, joe biden's suddenly going to, you know, do a state of the union address and suddenly, oh, he's great, he's

vigorous, in fact, his polls didn't get better. many got worse. i think people have to accept the fact that joe biden is the nominee of the democratic party. they should accept the fact that he's down. they should not write off the polls and just accept the fact this they have to work harder than ever and double down and become super citizen activists, and i have sort of a three-point plan i articulate in this column. >> we're going to have to read that column. chuck. let me ask you about a third party candidate. no labels has been trying to field a ticket. they have had no luck getting one. why wouldn't nikki haley or admiral mcraven get on a ticket when there's so much of the country who says we want another option? >> look, i'm with mark. look, i still believe in sort of a market, a world with a market system like we have, and there's a massive vacuum here, right, and you would have assumed somebody would try to fill it. i think mcraven was almost the only version that could have done it.

it's somebody that was above politics. but there aren't many people that are. i also think, frankly, where the no labels idea goes off track is due to the environment we're in on reproductive rights. and i think many voters do understand that as much as they don't like the two-party system, that issue is a binary issue that gets decided by the two parties. how do judges get appointed, you know, so i really have wondered if there would have been a better chance to get a third party if abortion wasn't going to be the front and center issue. because what was no labels going to put together a ticket that was one candidate that was for more access and one candidate that's for less access. the debate is access right now. there's no middle ground there. so i wonder if in our binary world that we live in, in our polarized world, where even though we don't like this group of voters, they have accepted the reality that this is how the system works. >> let me ask you about polls, chuck.

you know, polls are reliable up to a degree. they were certainly a little squishy in 2016. >> yeah. >> squishiness here and there. let me ask you, are they as reliable today. people are saying they're not happy with joe biden or they don't really like joe biden, does that translate into them not voting for joe biden, and instead voting for donald trump? >> look, i think polls are fine. you just got to understand what you're getting from them. i don't look for pure accuracy from the polls. i look for trends, and the fact is that it's sort of -- you know, polls do educate you on who the key swing voters are, who the undecideds are. if you're looking for pinpoint accuracy, you're looking in the wrong place. polls are not meant to be predictive. they're meant to tell you how people are thinking. i'll get off my hobby horse there.

i can't stand the idea of aggregating polls. take data you don't trust and mix it with more data you don't trust, and you're going to get trust worthy data, sorry, it's not the way it works. here's what i think the reality s though, i think the fact of the matter is this is a divisive decision. i think there's a small slice of voters that don't like their choices, and what happens? think about yourself, katy, when you have to make a decision that you don't like, do you make it now or do you make it right when you have to? i have a thesis here. i think there's going to be -- i think we're going to be sitting in the same polling spot that we're in, and i think the numbers are going to be where they are because i think this slice of voters is going to wait until the last possible minute. they're going to procrastinate this decision to the very end. this may be one of those we don't see the movement until the end. >> it's like me getting out of bed in the morning, i make it as late as possible the decision to get out of bed because i don't want to get out of bed.

mark, i don't even know what to ask, we're so far away from the election. it feels like the same thing over and over again. what is the right question to ask regarding 2024? >> well, i think chuck has a great column today, and focuses on a very interesting topic, which is the sort of cynicism, we talk about the double haters, those are the people that don't like trump or don't like biden. they're going to be decisive. they're going to decide this. chuck talked about the notion in the tech community, it's come down to a notion about survival versus greater good, and increasingly like the tech community believes we're in a world of survival, rather than a greater good, that's kind of a reshaping of our culture and how people think. i'm a greater good guy, a person of hope. there's a lot of survivalists, and chuck may have hit on a funny point which is a lot may be survivalists. i don't like trump, but he's a

transactionalist like me. >> mark, chuck todd, gentlemen, thank you very much. up next on "katy tur reports," the mayor of laredo joins me to talk about what enforcement might look like and why local law enforcement aren't entirely on board. don't go anywhere. e. w iphone 15o with tons of storage. so you can take all the pics! so many selfies. a preposterous amount of pano! that means panoramic. and as many portraits of me as your heart desires. (woman) how about none? (boy) none. (man) yea none feels right. (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon. tide is busting laundry's biggest myth... that cold water can't clean. cold water, on those stains? ♪♪ cold water can't clean tough stains? i'd say that myth is busted. turn to cold, with tide.

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. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. governor greg abbott has the immigration showdown he has been looking for. if the fifth circuit court of appeals agrees with him, he could win. texas lawyers went against the biden administration claiming there's an invasion at the border. the administers sees it differently that the feds and only the feds have the authority to enforce immigration law. we'll have to wait for what the fifth circuit doe