news. you have to be honest. there is a bleed in his coalition. you would have thought at this point, given what donald trump did after january 6th, that there would be a bigger group of donald trump voters that peeled off. at this point, there is a small number of donald trump voters, very small who peeled off, and biden is still having trouble, you know, with some of these moderate voters in the suburbs they did well with, and also with some in the core democratic coalition. younger voters and voters of color. biden needs to consolidate the folks that voted for him in 2020. he's got the money to do that. things are getting better in the economy, so i think there's shines of light for biden. there's still reason to be worried. >> tim miller, great analysis, as always. thank you. come back soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. so i think we should do it today. let's call for it. i'll make the motion, mr. chairman. i want to help you out.

you can second it, right? make the motion to impeach president biden. go ahead. it's your turn. you second it. no, nothing? okay. we have nothing. with my last couple minutes, i want to show the american people that they're never going to impeach joe biden. it's never going to happen. because they don't have the evidence, okay? this is a show. it's all fake. they just want to do these hearings. it's not leading to impeachment. they're lying to their base on newsmax, on fox, leading these people to believe that they're going to eventually impeach the president. it's not going to happen. at all, ever. period. they don't even have the votes even if they had it in committee. they don't have the votes on the floor. they know that. they have members resigning rather than taking a vote on the fake foe impeachment. ask ken buck who said the speaker ain't going to get me to take an unconstitutional

impeachment vote. >> jared moskowitz challenging house republicans to hold a vote on president biden's impeachment during their latest hearing yesterday. he's like, come on, guys. we got it. let's do it. you ready? >> he's good. he's good. as eddie murphy would say in "coming to america," that boy is good. he is good. he's got a lot of material to work with, rev. a lot of material. i mean, at this point, fox, newsmax, they're all going, come on. you're making fools of yourselves. obviously, they've been watching "morning joe" for, like, a year, because that's what we've been saying. >> i don't think so. >> no, serious. when you start putting arnold the pig as your chief legal counsel, that's a hint. they have been making idiots of themselves for a year now. >> when arnold starts oinking, it becomes -- >> oh, here it is.

actual footage in the republican caucus room, arguing about -- >> there he is. >> getting ready for the next hearing. >> look at that guy. i got this. >> okay. i'm sorry, rev. we didn't mean to interrupt. >> when arnold oinks when he's getting the cookies or something, everybody knows who your counsel is. i think you have to give it to moskowitz. he really drove it home. i mean, as a preacher, when you go to the climax of the sermon, he went there. >> yeah. >> almost the republicans had to say amen to that. >> well, he even had an invitation. >> yeah. >> he said, start playing "just as i am" and come on up if you want to impeach. no takers. nobody came down front, mara, because they've got nothing on biden. i will tell you what irks me is, it's not that these house republicans are just stupid. they've just acted in such a stupid way, and i wish there were a better word to use for that. there is not a more eloquent

word. what irritates me is i've had people in the mainstream media, as trump would say, telling me constantly, whispering, why is the media avoiding this hunter biden scandal? why is the media? we've all heard it. oh, we need to do a better job. we have to be more down the middle. i've been going through this with a couple of well-known journalists and go, give me what you got. oh, tony bobulinski. give me more. what do you got? they have nothing. >> no. >> they have been pushing this. a lot of media outlets have gone, well, we have to be fair on both sides. you have to be fair on both sides if there are facts on both sides. there have never been any facts here. >> no. i mean, you know, for journalism, you go where the facts lead you. not all facts are equal. not all sources are reliable. the fact of the matter is, there's no there-there. continuing to treat this as though there is is really doing

a disservice, not only to the president, obviously, but really to americans, to the electoral system, and it confuses people. you start to think, oh, well, they're all crooks. there's no difference. that really is the point, is to distract from donald trump's actual prosecution over, you know, very real, very real issues and threats to democracy. of course, you know, what we're seeing here is all of this impeachment talk was fine when people were focused, when the republicans were focused on the primary. now, you'll see them moonwalk a little bit here back, because they're thinking about november. actually, i don't think that a circus trying to impeach the president is going to actually be very good for donald trump. so the whole thing is trying to save donald trump from himself, trying to save themselves from donald trump. i mean, they're twisted in so many knots. they don't know what's up and

what's down. >> jonathan, as long as they weren't pursuing this as actively as they have been and making fools of themselves, it was actually, sad to say, working. you talk about disinformation. you could look at the polls, and all of the lies about hunter biden, all of the lies about joe biden getting rich off hunter biden, all of the b.s., all of the b.s. that the right-wing trumpers have been spewing, whether it's on podcasts or whether it's in newspapers, whether it's on cable news, it's worked. so the white house was really frustrated about, you know, who is a bigger concern, trump and all of his candles or, you know, the biden crime family. they didn't put it quite that way, but it actually cut into joe biden's polling. arnold the pig and his cohorts have actually done the white house a favor.

because they've exposed this lie. >> right. >> this was disinformation that they made the mistake of putting out in the light of day, and light really is the best disinfectant. it's wiped this clean off of the slate for, i think, most voters now. >> in terms of a political play, they should have left it on fox news. leave it on the podcasts and the fundraising emails. now that it's in the halls of congress, it's been exposed as a sham. they have repeatedly been unable to provide any evidence. their best witnesses are incarcerated or on the run. they haven't provided any sort of real evidence that president biden or his family have engaged in any sort of behavior that would be criminal or impeachable. they're not giving up, at least not yet. chairman comer yesterday said that he's inviting president biden to come testify. he wants the president -- >> at this point, that's why newsmax, that's why fox, everybody is going, hey, hey, just leave it to the pig. >> right. >> just stop this.

>> is arnold the pig, by the way, one of the republicans who actually went to one of the elite schools? did he have the degrees like ted cruz and josh hawley? >> no, which is why he is the only smart one there. went to university of arkansas. >> he did? >> university of arkansas. post grad at alabama. >> roll tide. >> we had a picture of him up. i walked past bear bryant and him and arnold. >> right there. >> he's good. prominent alum. >> yeah. >> damn straight he is. >> the white house did not respond to the invitation to the president to respond, but ian sams put out this statement. "that hearing was embarrassing for house republicans. a total waste of time. it's time to move on from this sad charade. there are real issues the american people want us to address." >> ian sims, university of alabama grad. we belong to an elite fraternity. there are a few of us scattered throughout who tried to overthrow the student government

and get rid of the machine. if you want to do some real reading, the machine at the university of alabama, it was something. >> you failed at regime change? >> well, they eventually got driven off campus. they did. i swear, there is a great book about the machine and alabama politics over the century. it's kind of crazy. ian sims, one of the resistance fighters. >> bama rush. as someone who watched the tiktok videos, i'm familiar with the machine. >> oh, okay! there you go. >> good try. >> had a select group of fraternities and sororities that ran the entire campus. i'm telling you. >> so i'm going to -- >> bama rush talked about the machine. >> are you allowed to talk about this? >> i'm allowed to talk about this because, you know, i was like trotsky at alabama.

the administration used to love the machine. they, of course, don't now because i won good tickets to football games. but back then, i had someone from the administration call me in and say, "son, i see you're running to abolish the student government." "yeah, it's really not fair." of course, i had the light touch. i said, "it's about as racist as george wallace. it is backward. it needs to be taken from the campus." he said, "son, i see here you want to go to law school. well, there are a lot of people down the street at the university of alabama law school." i cut him off and said, "who says i'm going to go to your law school?" there you go. i've given a lot of information that's made mika uncomfortable right now. >> yeah. >> university of alabama law school, a great law school. i was just ready to get out of

there, richard. >> actually, it's incredible. okay now, i need you to stop. >> that's what i said. can i ask richard about the giants? >> only if you talk about richard's weekly newsletter, "home and away," available on substack. >> richard, when is "home and away" going to take on the fact that you guys pissed away all your money on a midrange quarterback and destroyed the giants' future for the next decade? >> wow. >> joe, do you wake up feeling this angry every morning? >> this is me happy. >> joe, the knicks, for example, are in their 51st year of rebuilding. >> exactly. >> i'm feeling it for the knicks. the giants have about another decade or so to go. >> is there a sadder team to follow than the new york knicks? >> they're looking okay this year. but the giants, yes, $40 million

a year for daniel jones is -- >> kind of bad. >> inflationary. >> so if you answered the boston red sox to my question, is there a sadder franchise to follow, you win rice-a-roni, the san francisco treat, after the show. mika, are you going to start up the show? introduce anybody? t.j., show us chopper 4 or something. like, give us a segue, and we'll try this again. let's start the show again. >> trying to warn you that it is just a long show. >> three, two, one. give us an intro, t.j. can you -- >> with us -- >> three, two. >> i need t.j. to give us a music cue or chopper 4. >> he can't. >> there we go. >> give us some music. >> i'm waiting on it. >> my god. >> okay. >> cue anything, seriously. [ laughter ] >> mika, ready?

okay. >> wow. >> three, two, one, you're on. >> welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton, mara gay, richard haass, and joe, who is wide awake and who is, like, literally wasting all of his energy in the first few minutes of the show, even though it is four hours long. >> we just started the show. >> here we go, yes. >> do we have to do this again? >> no. >> this is the top of the show. t.j., give us the music and the thing again. let's go. hold on. ♪♪ >> mika, ready? three, two, one, go. >> welcome to "morning joe." our top story this morning, just take the shot off him, donald trump is -- he's saying, please pay my bills. i don't have it. bankruptcy wouldn't look good.

donald trump is reaching out to high-dollar donors in an effort to cover the massive civil fraud judgment against him, according to a trump ally who tells nbc news they were contacted by a member of trump's team. meanwhile, a source close to the trump family said the former president's defense team is still trying to figure out its options. i think they have until monday. they're discussing ways trump could appeal the judge's ruling without having to put the bond up. and what would happen if they can't secure the required sum? financial experts say an immediate solution for trump's financial problems would be to file for bankruptcy. he's done it before. as "the washington post" points out, it could delay his requirement to pay the judgment by months or even years. however, the paper cites four sources close to trump who say the former president is not considering that approach out of concern that it could damage his re-election campaign.

meanwhile, former president trump is holding a fundraiser in palm beach next month with tickets for the event starting at $250,000. >> that's richard haass money. >> or for $800,000, attendees can receive the title, "chairperson." the funds raised will be split between the trump campaign, the rnc, state republican parties, and the save america pac, which trump has been using to pay his legal expenses. >> let's stop right there, mika. there's a lot to talk about here. >> there's a lot there, yeah. >> jonathan, first of all, let's talk about the last part first, which is, he's having this fundraiser. he is way behind joe biden in money. the rnc, they're all getting hammered. they're going to throw a big fundraiser. then you see he's going to have to split it up four ways, and a big chunk of that, probably the

largest chunk, is going to be going to pay his legal fees. that is an ongoing problem, not only for the trump campaign, the cash-starved trump campaign, but also for donors who were thinking, okay, maybe i want those tax cuts to be continued if i'm a billionaire. but i'm not helping myself get those tax cuts. i'm just helping donald trump. >> of the four entiies that will benefit, three could be channelling the money for trump's legal bills. his campaign itself, the rnc, now run by his daughter-in-law and close allies, and then the super pac. only the state republican parties could help other candidates. you mentioned a key part. there's anxiety among democrats about where the polls stand right now, but one thing they continue to take confidence in is a massive and growing fundraising advantage. the president wakes up in texas this morning. he has $6 million worth of fundraisers later today. he raised money in arizona and

nevada earlier this week. they have tens of millions of dollars more on hand than the republicans do. >> i -- >> they have -- >> i've said it here, mara. i've talked to fundraisers who said, for the first time in their lives raising money, they'll say, "we have an event for the joe biden, would you --" and the people say, "we've been waiting for you to call us. we want to do anything we can to beat donald trump. tell us how much to bring, who to get." these are people, of course, who have always hated making those calls because it's always, like, dragging people in. not the case now. you have a tale of two tircht different campaigns as far as money depose. the trump campaign, again, splitting everything up to pay his legal expenses, and the biden campaign who can't keep people away from giving. >> in addition to the cash on hand the biden campaign has, they also have a billion dollars that will come to that campaign from outside groups that are

committed to spending about that much. that's going to make an enormous difference. of course, you know, this is really the first time that we're seeing the financial drag on the campaign from all of the prosecutions that donald trump has been dealing with. so we're seeing that direct impact. i actually anticipate it is only going to get worse over the summer as more americans start paying attention. the donations continue to flood in. i think, also, there is something to be saids campaign, think probably won't go anywhere. >> right. >> i'll make that prediction. once those wealthy americans come to their senses, the hope would be that they, too, would start pitching in. at the same time, you would have potential republican donors who may sit out and say, i just can't bring myself to do it. >> right. >> you know, so this would be a good time for those wealthy americans to do their civic duty

and try not to, you know, support donald trump's campaign. >> well, we've seen quite a few who supported nikki haley, who weren't supporting nikki now, saying, i can't. i can't support this guy. he's too crazy. i'm curious, rev, knowing donald trump as long as you have, as long as we have, i think you've known him a bit longer, what do you think the prospects are for bankruptcy for him right now? it's one thing if you're getting your companies, you know, in new jersey to go bankrupt. it is another to do this in the middle of the campaign. think he'd ever consider that? >> i don't think he wants to consider it. it may come to that because i think he's probably, from the time i knew him, surprised no one has come in, asl been reach bail him out. if he files bankruptcy, it's a desperate move. he knows it'd totally erode his

brand and say to some of those who are not just his very cult-following type that he really can't manage his business. he can't manage the country. he knows what it would do to his brand, other than the cult following. i think he'd rather do anything but file for bankruptcy, but it may be the only option he has. we're talking about monday, three days away. state attorney james said, i'm coming after him, and he knows it's no joke. you have to remember, he has to teal with this and pay for lawyers and other legal expenses in four criminal cases. this is not even one of the criminal cases. >> right. >> this is a civil case. he has a lot he has to do. by the time he finishes arguing with the civil attorneys about trying another entity for money, he has four different legal teams calling him saying, "we need some more money for the court papers we have to file. we need more money."

>> right. >> he is in a tough spot. couldn't happen to a nicer guy. >> let me go from one uncomfortable question about the giants to another uncomfortable question, richard. what to you say to some trump supporters and also legal observers who say that you had an attorney general who ran, saying, "if i run, i'm going after donald trump." "the new york times" had an article saying that she's used an old law to do after him in this case. now, he's not the first. she also went after exxon and a couple other entities. but because it is a bit unusual, there are some people, some legal scholars that say, he's got a good chance on appeal to at least, if not have the decision overturned, to at least modify the penalties as being

excessive. should he have to pay that entire bond, should he have to start selling properties? i see you smirking. >> i'm not smirking. >> okay. should he have to sell properties and do all these other things just to reserve the right to go on appeal? >> couple things. one, it reinforces the sense that's central to his campaign, that he is a victim. >> is he in this case? >> i think the idea that he is being asked to come up with such a large amount of cash in a relatively small amount of time, i don't know about you, joe, what's the percentage of your investments that are liquid as opposed to long-term, private equity. >> this is the only thing i have to sell, this coffee mug now on sale. by the way, i actually talked to a billionaire. i said, could you come up with this money? he said, no. doesn't matter how much money you have, you're not going to be able to come up with $500 million cash. >> most people that wealthy have

their money -- >> spread out. >> or things that are locked up, private equity, hedge funds, whatever. they're basically not keeping it in their jpmorgan checking account. it's not necessarily in stocks. yeah, i think it is unrealistic to ask for that amount of cash in that small amount of time, yes. >> another way to ask it, would you be comfortable if, let's say, joe biden, former president joe biden was sued by the texas attorney general, ken paxton, after he got out of the white house, put in a position to come up with $500 million in bond money? >> the answer is two things. one, i am slightly uncomfortable at all these state things. >> mika isn't going to talk to me. i can't never say this in the same studio with mika because she won't talk to me for a week. but i'm uncomfortable with the state cases because what comes around goes around.

>> exactly. there was an interesting article in "the new york times" about how states are increasingly the driving force when the federal government can't get things done. we all may live to rue that day. but in terms of what's going on with trump, i want people to go after him legally for the big stuff. >> right. >> i want the insurrection issues, january 6th. if you're going after him, go after him for the stuff that threatens america. i am uncomfortable. it is going after him for things at the state level. go after him for things you ought to be going after him. >> in areas that voted 85%, 90% against donald trump, like in georgia, 11,000 votes. there are counties that could have, should have brought that case. i wish it hadn't been fulton county, a county that had gone so overwhelmingly against donald trump. but what ga galls me is, the ca that is, like, i think -- well,

two cases. you can't say one case is more serious than the other. one of the most serious cases, where the guy stole nuclear secrets, allegedly, stole nuclear secrets, gave away secret war plans to invade iran. you go down the list. according to his own people, asked his i.t. guy to destroy evidence. then asked his guy that ran the grounds to flood the areas because the i.t. guy wouldn't. i mean, the great frustration is, that is in front of a judge who could not be more in the pocket of donald trump. here, i do have my concerns about the state cases, but it seems the cases the feds have brought that involve the national issues, my god, they're the ones he seems to be getting away with. >> remember, you actually -- you know, if he was to be re-elected

president, i mean, you can be pardoned. you can pardon yourself for federal crimes. you can't do that for state crimes. >> right. >> that's one feature to consider. i mean, i do believe that -- i hear you, but i think the larger risk is actually in allowing donald trump to continue his ongoing impunity that he has enjoyed for too many decades. you know, anybody else in the united states, if they committed crimes, which he may have done, or if he committed civil fraud as inflating the cost of his real estate assets, anybody else would be prosecuted for that. >> right. >> anybody else would be held accountable. so, yes, it is true that new york is now a solidly democratic state. wasn't always. but at the same time, he spent decade here not paying taxes. he spent decades not being held accountable while people all

across new york city were evicted for not paying $800 in rent. >> right. >> i actually think that there is every reason to go after anybody who has potentially committed crimes. afterwards, he has every right to appeal, as well, just like every other american. let the legal system play out. you know, it is hard to have sympathy because after his braggadocious behavior for all these years, yes, trump tower is at stake. well, this is what happens. the rest of us have to pay the rent. we have to pay our bills. he should pay his. >> mika, i've been saying, especially in the federal cases, he appears to be above the law. again, i do have some question about the state cases, but i'm sure at the end of the day, i'll defer to you, honey. >> if you even, you know, get to come home, but that's okay. >> oh. >> wow, that is -- >> this is fun. >> she does not like talking

about the state cases. >> that is cold. >> it is cold. i'm a little -- >> you put it out there. >> by the way, it is so cold in new york. why is it so cold? it's not just mika's chilly glare. >> maybe that's why you're so awake. >> is this the first day of spring? >> doesn't feel like it. >> holy cow. it's cold outside. >> i think we missed that. >> it's colder in the studio. >> i think that was yesterday. >> it's freezing in here. trying to freeze us out. >> bring me the cam, right here, single shot. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> go ahead, babe. >> did he? okay. benjamin netanyahu speaks with senate republicans but not democrats. we'll take a look at what lawmakers are saying about his remarks amid the ongoing war with hamas. plus, donald trump is already claiming the november election could be rigged. how those words and his rhetoric are having an impact with voters. also ahead, we're digging

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there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add a new footlong sidekick. like the ultimate bmt with the new footlong pretzel. nothing like a sidekick that steps up in crunch time. [laughing] not cool man. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. democrats' egregious and hypocritical attempts to influence israeli domestic politics aren't some simple or narrow critique of a particular prime minister. they're an affront to the very independence of the state of

israel, a sovereign nation, a robust democracy, and one of america's closest allies and friends. >> let me say this, i care deeply about israel and its long-term future. when you make the issue partisan, you hurt the cause of helping israel. >> there is an accusation that you are interfering in a foreign election. you should not show any distance between the united states and close ally at the time of war. that's what republicans are saying. >> let me say this, i gave this speech out of a real love for israel, and if you read the speech, we called only for there to be an election after the hostilities had declined, after hamas was defeated. >> prime minister benjamin netanyahu held talks with senate republicans and house speaker mike johnson yesterday via video conference. chuck schumer

denied the request to address the democratic caucus. a spokesperson for the senator said he made it clear he, quote, does not think these discussions should happen in a partisan manner. once again, you see the republicans, you know, at a time of immense, immense pain for poet the people in gaza and for israelis who went through october 7th, and some who are feeling a lack of validation from their own government. you have the republicans accusing the democrats for getting involved, but they're the ones actually interfering with foreign policy, with our foreign policy, by not passing legislation that would support the israelis and the ukrainians. >> right. the israelis, the ukrainians, taiwan. i mean, it's astounding, how exposed house republicans are leaving our close allies across

the globe. got to say a couple things. first of all, the fact that anybody would question chuck schumer's support for israel shows you how desperate republicans are, what political hacks they are, how they think you are too stupid to actually see chuck schumer's, what, 30-year career in congress. he's been the most steadfast ally of israel. that's number one. richard, the crocodile tears from benjamin netanyahu. my question is, who does he think is so stupid to forget, when he's talking about, "oh, we should not interfere in fellow, you know, democracies or democratic allies," that's all he does! he basically got involved in the

romney/obama campaign. he was carrying donald trump's water repeatedly. we talked about going back to 2019. he'd retweet a text of donald trump. not just a political leader but morning cable shows. that's how in the weeds benjamin netanyahu got in supporting donald trump and supporting other republican candidates and going against democrats. he's been doing this for years. to now say, oh, chuck schumer shouldn't -- it's preposterous. one other thing, again, as somebody who has been one of the fiercest supporters of israel across my adult life, it is deeply offensive that people tell me that i have no right to speak out when i think, just like when i think my former republican party is hurting itself, or my fellow countrmen and women are hurting this

country, that i can't speak out when a friend has a leader who made one tragic miscalculation after another and put israel in the weakest position it's been since 1948. i'm not allowed as a friend to talk about that? it's such garbage. that's benjamin netanyahu saying, let's keep pushing this off as long as -- and the republicans want him to. he doesn't want any accountability in the end. >> first of all, joe, you not only have the right, you have the obligation to speak out. if you think israel -- if you care about the u.s./israeli relationship, if you care about the future of israel and you think what they're doing is misguided, you have the obligation to speak out, the same way as if the united states does something against our own self-interest. i'd question two tactical things chuck schumer did. i think it is right to criticize all sorts of aspects of israeli policy. i would not have done the extra thing about calling for elections or making it so add

homonym. the israelis have no political answer for what comes next in gaza or the west bank. you can't pursue this policy with military means only. i would have called netanyahu's bluff. i don't like the idea that bibi is talking to house republicans. why not have the democrats say, okay, let's have a conversation. let's challenge bibi on everything that he is doing. let's challenge him on the lack of aid going into gaza. let's challenge him on the use of large munitions in crowded civilian areas. let's challenge him that there is no plan for palestinians. >> ask basic questions. why did it take you so long to help your people? why when you found out in 2018 where hamas' funding came from, you and donald trump did nothing about it? why did you send your guy to doha, and the qataris said,

should we couldn't to send hundreds of millions to hamas to prop them up, you said yes. that'd be good questions. >> i don't like the idea that, you know, the republicans are playing this cynical game after not approving the legislation, that they're quote, unquote pro-israel now. but if they do, the democrats should challenge netanyahu across the board. again, what he is doing is against the law. we've talked about this here. it's not only bad for israel. it is going to be ruinous, i fear, for the u.s./israeli relationship. that is in neither country's self-interest. >> again, what people don't realize, and i guess these republicans don't realize it, maybe they don't talk to anymore, the clock is ticking. we have sunni arab nations, leaders that are ready to go in with the united states, help rebuild gaza, help bring about a peaceful solution, spend billions and billions of dollars there, and start working toward a two-state solution.

that clock is ticking. the biden white house knows it. democrats know it. i guess republicans don't know it. mara, this is, you know -- campaigns are about contrasts. you have joe biden, for instance, talking about saving social security for senior citizens. republicans talking about cutting social security. donald trump saying, that's one thing we can do, slash social security. but on israel, you know, on colleges, kids have been calling biden genocide joe, in michigan he's been attacked. look at the contrast here. you have joe biden, who spent the past month desperately trying to work this out. trying to help gazan citizens. knowing that if he just cuts off israel, things get worse very quickly. so he's balancing all of these things. then you have donald trump on the other side and these republicans saying, let bibi go into rafah and do whatever he

wants to do. trump says, i'll give him whatever he wants. he needs to finish it now. that's a choice. i wonder if voters are going to recognize that choice. >> well, tactically, from a diplomatic standpoint, i can't speak to chuck schumer's decision to go as far as he did, but what i can say is that it is clear from an american political perspective that holding, and just a moral perspective, holding bibi netanyahu to account, asking the tough questions is important as an ally of israel. it is important for the united states to do, and it is also important to show americans that we do actually care about being an honest and fair broker in the middle east. that we can call a spade a spade when we see it, and we care for human rights for all people, including israelis and palestinians. i think that it is important, too, to say to american voters,

we hear you. you know, a lot of younger voters are very upset, understandably, seeing the deaths of palestinian children. they want to know that bibi netanyahu, that those israeli policies are being held to account. they're not anti-israel, necessarily. you know, i actually think it wasn't a crazy move, and i think what bibi is doing is extremely cynical, but that's what we should expect. >> it's what he does. >> i think it's important, i've known chuck schumer since the '70s when reverend william jones told us to campaign for this guy to go to congress. do you imagine how agonizing it was for chuck schumer as pro-israel as he's been, to even take this stand? i'm sure many around him said, "don't do this." i really think that schumer did this because he honestly believes that netanyahu is in the way of what needs to happen

there. and for the good of israel and the good of what's going on in gaza. i really gave him a lot of credit because i knew how difficult it had to be, knowing chuck schumer. politically, he should have just remained where he was, silent on it. it took a lot of courage to do it. and we can't pardon the fact you had hundreds of thousands of people marching against netanyahu right before october 7th when he was trying to change the judiciary. he's under indictment. let's not talk about netanyahu like he is the saint of israel. he is not. he's been controversial there and is under certain criminal cases there. even beyond that, i think the fact is that schumer has taken a position that is in the interest of israel and the united states and gaza. i think that that is what's important. >> let's be clear, he was directionally right to criticize

israel over policy. there's a lot going on that's not in israel's interest, nor ours. where i hold back, i think tactically, he went too far. even though bibi netanyahu, as joe pointed out, regularly intervenes in american politics, schumer went the extra 10% in talking about the need for israeli elections. we as americans should focus on policy. let the israeli public figure out the politics. the polls make it clear, most of the israeli public are opposed to netanyahu. sooner or later, it'll work through the political system. >> schumer has given an interview since saying it came from the heart. he speaks about his jewish faith. it also gives the white house a little more operating room, with schumer giving cover, while they push netanyahu behind the scenes. right now, the next couple days, mika, we expect the team of officials to washington to discuss plans to rafah. the administration is offering

alternatives to the full-scale invasion. they're deeply concerned about the humanitarian toll there. >> richard haass, thank you very much for being on this morning. i am sorry for joe. i apologize. >> go giants. >> exactly. coming up, a long-time employee of donald trump is describing the culture inside mar-a-lago. what he is saying about trump's alleged efforts to hide classified documents in his palm beach home and club. "morning joe" will be right back. they expect me to eat like a bird. they are shocked by the amount of food i eat while losing weight. with golo, i don't need a cheat day because i get to eat the foods i like any day of the week. morikawa on 18. he is really boxed in here. -not a good spot.

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welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the white house as the sun has yet to come up over washington. beautiful morning, though. a former long-time employee of donald trump tells msnbc the culture at mar-a-lago would have led many people to commit crimes on trump's behalf. brian butler also referred to in the classified documents

indictment as trump employee five spoke last night on msnbc's "the beat" with ari melber. the 20-year mar-a-lago employee previously testified before a grand jury in the case involving trump's handling of classified documents. butler also told special counsel jack smith that on june 3rd, 2022, he was asked by trump's valet and co-defendant, walt nauta, to move the boxes, which he'd later learn were full of documents, on to trump's plane in florida. butler said he later had conversations with his friend, mar-a-lago property manager and trump co-defendant, d oliveira, about efforts to review and delete security footage. >> the way i see it, if these were his personal documents, or

he's allowed to have these by the pra, why would you have questions about video footage? why would you possibly move the documents when they're coming to retreat them? to me, it doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower-level employees in the position you are in if you did nothing wrong and these are your personal documents? >> so you had the impression from the people around that trump knew the things that went down were bad or illegal, and he didn't want that on video? >>. >> absolutely. why else would you need to know the footage? why were they saying, this guy was on video moving boxes? >> butler added he does not believe the investigation is politicized, and that if trump genuinely believed he was not in the wrong, he should have just cooperated with investigators.

trump's co-defendants, de naut guilty. kristy greenberg, we'll get to the bond that trump has to pay by monday. let me know about the deadline. a number of things are going around. i've brought up, obviously, family members who have a lot of money, like his son-in-law, jared kushner, who received, i think, $2 billion from the saudis. the trump campaign sent an emergency memo to supporters via text on wednesday, which included a message to attorney general james, quote, "keep your filthy hands off trump

tower." if he gets someone to pay this for him, does he have to disclose that, or how does it work? >> he does not have to disclose that. there is not the requirement in the courts at least for transparency into what the source of the money is. from the plaintiff's perspective, they want to mike sure the money is there. obviously, it is a different question politically. obviously, the american people with the presidential candidate want to know what the source of his money is. in particular, whether or not it compromises him with foreign governments and foreign leaders. it's a national security issue. at least from the legal perspective, no, there is not going to be transparency. as to your question about the deadline, yes, the money has to be paid by money. he either has to get a bond or has to put up the whole amount in cash. >> wow. >> that was a pac mika brought up. kristy, thank you for braving the cold weather outside to come in and endure the cold weather inside. the cold nor'easter. t.j., i know you're running a

little hot, but if we could turn the air conditioner off. >> working on it. >> that'd be awesome. seriously, you know, we will hand out canada goose, not rice-a-roni coats afterwards, if that's politically correct. $464 million, what happens if he can't come up with the money? >> i assume that tish james already has a plan in place. she has a list of what his assets are that she knows of from discovery in the case. what are the properties? what is the bank accounts? she's going to look to put liens on those immediately. she is going to look to freeze and seize, right? make sure you're freezing those accounts so that he can't start moving money, and then really looking to get seizure warrants to seize so that -- >> so they seize and sell it and get money from that to get the $464 million? >> right now, i mean, i think the key would be just making sure that you have enough to get

the entire amount. yes, once it is frozen, then she can take various enforcement mechanisms to go about seizing those, whether it is properties or bank accounts, to actually make sure that everything is in place, that she could actually seize it. >> let's move to the florida case. we heard from witness number five. i'm a big defender of the federal judiciary, always have been. even when they don't rule the way i want them to rule. even when the supreme court goes their own way. well, it's how they've lived their lives. it's what they've talked about. if they're more conservative or more liberal. i'm having a hard time defending judge cannon's actions, and not just because it is against trump. here is somebody who has been humiliated by the 11th circuits, one of the most conservative in america. i've got to say, her rulings are mind-boggling, and i don't

understand. i'm not alone. a lot of legal experts are perplexed. >> so i was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt initially, just she's a new judge. she's inexperienced. she's taking the time, and she's trying to get it right. but she's getting it dead wrong. every time she gets it dead wrong, it's always in donald trump's favor. the last month or so, we have a ruling where she is ordering the identities of witnesses to be unsealed. there is no trial date. there is no need to be unsealing the identities and statements of witnesses who could be harassed and have a risk of harm. then you have her recent non-ruling that she's going to kick the can down the road on whether or not the espionage act is vague. it's not vague. it's been well-established law. the terms were clear. it was told to donald trump who was told he couldn't keep the classified documents. that was a bad ruling. then the third strike is the recent jury instructions. again, we don't have a jury.

>> she's saying, basically, trump can do whatever he wants to do. >> right. >> what is that? >> as long as he said it was personal, he doesn't get to -- the pra, whether or not something is personal or presidential, is not the point. he is charged with committing violations of the espionage act. nothing in the presidential records act gives him authorization to have classified investigation. it is a red herring. if it were a law school exam, she'd be failing. >> no law professor would ever put that down as a possibility. i'm dead serious. no student would be stupid enough, not even me in the first year of class, to follow that rabbit trail. because, no, the defendant can't determine the outlines of the statute. trump can decide what it means, it's insanity.

>> there were fears she'd rule in favor of donald trump, and she's done nothing to disprove that. another matter, georgia. the judge said he cleared the way for trump and other defendants to appeal his ruling that allows fani willis to stay on the case. this seems like another thing that is going to keep the clock running, another delay tactic, is that right? >> it is. i do think the georgia appeals court will take this up. essentially, within ten days, the parties have to have their briefs. there will be opposition briefs. once the court of appeals gets it, they have 45 days to decide. but the one thing that is interesting and different in georgia than in d.c., all of the pretrial motions, that case is not on hold. judge mcafee said in georgia, while this appeal is potentially pending, i will still be ruling on pretrial motions. i'll be moving things along. that's a difference. in d.c., everything is stopped. >> msnbc legal analyst kristy

greenberg, thank you once again. come back soon. we appreciate it. >> it'll be warmer next time, i promise. >> mika, come on. >> yeah. so it cold in there? it'll get colder. >> like a scene of "rocky." >> good lord. republican congressman mike lawler of new york will be a guest to discuss the crisis at the southern border and aid for ukraine. plus, the chair of the democrats' campaign arm in the upper chamber, senator gary peters of michigan, will join the conversation. we're back in 90 seconds.

in the coming days, i will invite president biden to the oversight committee to provide his testimony and explain why his family received tens of millions of dollars from foreign companies with his assistance. we need to hear from the president himself. i assure the american people that they will be able to evaluate for themselves the president's honesty and fitness for the office he now holds. >> is impeachment the next step? are you going to hold a vote on the house floor? it's up to mike johnson, but the margins, congressman, you lost

kevin mccarthy. ken buck left last week. george santos was ousted. unless you get democratic votes, this is going to be real tough. it kind of seems like you're chasing your tail at this point because this is not going to go anywhere. >> the end of this week, congress is due to go into recess for another two weeks, and i do think that, in some ways, it feels like they keep doing the same hearing over and over again and people are starting to wonder. at some point, do you fish or cut bait and do something about a vote or not and move on to the general election. >> this is witness testimony. so a lot of this evidence is situational. it's circumstantial. what does the oversight committee need right now to complete its investigation, to fill in these holes? >> but where is the evidence of wrongdoing on the president's part, and how long can you continue this investigation without that evidence? >> i think, john, the why we're still here, because i do think people are maybe becoming a little tired of all of this. >> that was going to be my next

question. >> it's just not really fair, mika, when left-wing networks, you know, line up to defend president biden. the lamestream media. >> that was fox news and newsmax. >> yeah. >> they were pushing back against house republicans and their impeachment inquiry into president biden. i think even they're getting bored. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 21st. jonathan lemire, mara gay still with us. joining the conversation, special correspondent at "vanity fair" and host of "the fast politics" podcast, molly jong-fast. and associate professor in politics at university college london, brian kloss is with us this morning. he is the author of the new book entitled "fluke, chance, kay i don't gues chaos, and why everything we do matters." my god, joe, i was saying yesterday, when will this end with the hunter biden inquiry

and the impeachment inquiry? we were talking to dan goldman, and i said, like, what next? what do they have? what do they have? >> i mean, this is one of the examples where, if you're the biden white house, you want them to keep going because they make a fool of themselves every time they go out there. it keeps getting worse and worse and worse. molly, you now have republicans and supporters of donald trump, this is hurting the cause. newsmax and fox, they're saying, move along. you're chasing your tail. it's time to fish or cut bait. you're holding the same hearing and over and over again. i mean, when you start hearing that from your biggest supporters, may be time to move along. >> you know, we call that a vibe shift. with the vibes-based

impeachment, you know, i thought aoc was effective when she was asking, like, what is your high crime? what is the crime? they couldn't name a crime. i also think when you have a witness who is in jail, testifying from jail, that is never an amazing sign for your case. >> your key witness is on the run. >> right. >> an international fugitive who illegally sold iranian oil to the communist chinese party and illegally, like, sold weapons to terror states. >> yeah. >> yeah, you'd prefer to have a better lineup of witnesses than that. >> yeah, it's not a great case. look, they always -- there was never a great case here, right? there was never a high crime. >> yeah. >> you know, it was always sort of vibes. you know, they were going to find something. they had different -- i mean, aoc said this. she said, you know, you had originally one thing you went after, and then you changed it because it wasn't working.

>> yeah. >> you can't do that during an impeachment. i think back to nancy pelosi, who was so hesitant to impeach trump. she was so worried about what had happened with clinton in the '90s. you really did see -- >> i can tell ya, i was there. it never works. it just never works. the president always gets more popular. maybe it is americans reflexively saying, you know what? we got this. we'll take care of this. we got to the ballot box. so, brian, on a serious note, and it is hard to be serious about anything comer does, but there is a chapter in your next disinformation book about what's happened here. because if they had just kept this on fox news and newsmax and kept this on podcasts and kept this in the general ether, oh, the biden crime family. if you had just kept having supreme court justices' wives talking about arresting the

biden crime family and putting them in barges off gitmo and allowed that to grow, it would have continued to impact the campaign. it has. it impacted the polls. this really hurt joe biden in the trustworthiness. but they made a mistake. they brought the lies out into the sunlight. talk about the best disinfectant, it's withered away in the sun. isn't that fascinating? when you just trade in rumors the way that trump and so many of his supporters do, you can get away with it, lies and conspiracy theories. the second you try to prove it, you get your political, like -- you just get knocked to the ground politically. >> yeah. you know, i think this election is going to be decided by people who are not political die-hards. there will be people in battleground states making decisions closer to the election. it's going to likely tip the scales. these people, you look what

happened yesterday. biden announces billions of dollars of funding to solve problems in the united states. you have this endless, repeated hearing that doesn't produce anything, right? if you look at the record -- >> and you also have republicans going to the house floor screaming, "we're doing nothing. we've done nothing." >> the numbers back this up. 2022, there were over 100 bills that became law. 27 in 2023. most of those were extremely minor bills. my favorite is the duck stamp modernization act. they renamed a building in michigan. these are not earth-shattering things the house is working on. so i think at some point, the people who are not tuning into fox news and newsmax will look at the house and say, you know, we actually want you to solve problems. that's what politics is for. if you just keep on giving us the smoke with no fire, i mean, at some point, you say, we're going to replace you. >> but you are saying, though, that they modernized the duck champ stamp. >> they did indeed.

>> lemire and i collect stamps, so this is big news. >> significant movement in the industry. >> fdr would be proud. >> it is going to sway a lot of ballots this november, frankly. run on that. >> i think so. >> okay. so with about eight months to go before -- >> i'm not even -- >> not even. >> moving on. this is for brian. >> i am a little curious. >> we're trying to stay warm here, that's all. go ahead. with about eight months to go before a single vote cast, donald trump is already claiming that november's presidential election will be rigged against him. you definitely can laugh at that. at the same time, it's adding to everything that he is bringing to the table in terms of his fascist tendencies. in recent campaign speeches, not only has trump continued to push the big lie about the last election, but he is planting seeds to make the same false claims about the next one. that includes using the phrase

"too big to rig," based on the idea that he needs a lead so large in november that no fraudulent activity can erase it. but as "the wall street journal" writes, that line presents some serious messaging challenges for republicans. even as trump warns the voting process will be rigged in november, he is urging his supporters to participate in it anyway. the paper notes the former president also needs to appeal to moderate and swing voters, yet they could be turned off by his drum beat of election fraud claims. while the republican party as a whole has made major efforts to encourage mail-in and early voting this cycle, trump himself continues to deride those voting methods, brian, even though that's the way he voted numerous times. talk to us, if you could, brian, in the concept of even your book, how this, again, is all

part of a dangerous momentum that trump is hoping to build up as he continues to, you know, march forward in this presidential election, despite, you would think, for any other person, any other candidate on earth, one of his legal challenges would bring him down. >> yeah. i mean, we have all the ingredients for something really profound and major to happen around this election that would be disastrous for american democracy and also for the risk of violence. i mean, you have an extremist candidate at the top of the ticket who is inciting violence routinely. you have extremists in the base being told their political opponents are vermin or enemies of the state. people who attack the capitol are patriots or hostages, though they've been convicted of crimes and gone to jail for it. one of the key points that anyone who studies political violence, as i do, will tell you, is you do not need 30% of the population to be galvanized by the extremism. you need a small percentage to

create massive effects. that's the issue. right? a relatively small number of extremists, even if 1% of trump's base decides to act, you could have very dangerous outcomes around this election. i think, you know, at the moment, when we have the highest need for a person to show restraint and use judicial word choice, we have the most reckless candidate in the history of the united states on the top of the republican party. you know, i worry that we've been lucky so far, honestly. i think everything that could go wrong in terms of the sort of groundwork for political violence has gone wrong. yet, we haven't had as many catastrophic consequences as we could. is that luck at some point going to run out? i hope not. but, you know, we couldn't say we weren't warned. this is incredibly obvious, that what trump is doing is pouring gasoline on the fire of the american psyche, particularly in the extremist political right, every single day he's on the campaign trail. >> brian, i wonder, given your

extensive research into political violence, you know, this is not the first time that we've experienced political violence, even in the united states. this was a feature of our system until the civil rights movement. of course, other countries have had to deal with it, as well. how are the rest of us to respond? those of us who are committed to american democracy, and not just average people and journalists, but actually institutions? what are specific people supposed to be doing at this point to safeguard the system and the democracy? >> yeah. i mean, the lessons of history are when you lose democracy, rebuilding it is way harder than saving it while you have it. that's where you have to have institutions, political discourse that's tied to a big tempt. i think it is crucial when we talk about these things, there are so many people in the country that disagree on health care and taxes but agree democracy is important. that agree politicians should be held to higher standards than the rest of us, rather than lower standards. what we've seen the last eight years is a warping of the

political fabric, of the country. incitements to violence are normalized. >> brian, let me ask, you have billionaires who say, oh, i can't support donald trump. he's just too offensive. january 6th, da-da-da. then they come out, like, and say, you know what, i'll support him after all. >> well, what -- >> how do you get from condemning january 6th and understanding he tried to overturn american democracy, tried to overturn an american presidential election. how do you get from that point to, eh, i'll support him anyway? really, i do wonder how this country, how so many people in the country have turned their back on basic democratic concepts. i guarantee you, at this table, i guarantee you, there are a lot of issues we don't agree on.

i am -- i am a really conservative guy on the border, on you name it, on a lot of things. yet, it's crystal clear to us, we'll sort out our differences. we'll figure out how to meet in the middle, and we'll do what this country has done 240 years. since 1965. but the question is, how -- i want to say it politely. i can't. what happened in these people's lives? the lie is always, oh, you know what? these are heroin addicts in central ohio. no, it's not. it's billionaires in palm beach. i'm so sick and tired of people going, oh, it's people that -- no, it is people driving around their rolls-royces that made $50 million yesterday in the stock

market, who are voting for a fascist. a guy who talks like a ffascist. a guy who tried to overturn american democracy. don't help this guy get elected. >> the problem they have, i think, that they're duped on, they think the crazy is going to stay in the crazy side of things and not going to affect the economy. >> no, no, no. >> authoritarianism is bad for business, right? >> can we dig down here for a second in you brought up a great point. >> yup. >> everybody, you know, i think we made a mistake with these billionaires. we've talked about how this is a threat to democracy. molly, and i will say, i'm a really conservative guy. >> yeah. >> i like capitalism. >> right. >> capitalism works. capitalism has worked in this country, and it's helped elevate more people out of poverty than any other system known to

mankind. see, even i say mankind. my daughter would be so angry. so this is the thing, and i don't think they understand it. trump is not just a threat to democracy. he is a threat to american capitalism because he is a threat to the rule of law, that any company comes to the united states would tell you. >> yes. >> they come here because they know the ground rules. >> i say this as the granddaughter of a communist, married to a venture capitalist, so i believe in capitalism, too. >> whew, i just got dizzy. >> yeah. >> communist and -- >> that's just the cold. >> oh, it's the cold. i am losing feeling. >> you're turning blue. >> i'm starting to have some visions. >> hallucinations. >> mother, mother? >> trump doesn't believe in capitalism. he believes in crony capitalism, which is not the same thing. >> right. >> his friends he elevates. let's just say, trump was never a good businessman. he's not elevating the best

people. he is elevating -- >> these billionaires know that. a lot of these billionaires are self-made people. >> right. >> started out with nothing. they've become very wealthy. the bros in silicon valley are some of the most hostile. >> right. >> i guess to american capitalism. because they support the crony capitalists overwhelmingly. >> history is littered with rich people who thought authoritarians would be okay to them, right? we've seen this again and again throughout history. i think when you talk about someone like nelson peltz, who has come out for -- >> let's take nelson peltz, said he couldn't ever support donald trump. >> he did a media tour recently when he said he doesn't want to vote for biden because he feels bide season not as sharp as donald trump, which is a wild statement. look, a lot of these people think the crony capitalism will work for them.

they'll get the tax cuts, and they can keep going. i think history has proven that this is not how any of this works. >> trump has said, basically, i'm going to pick winners and losers. if you are a company that's insufficiently loyal to me, i'm going to attack you. >> right. >> maybe some are acting out of fear, i don't know. i just think it is pure selfishness, pure greed. there should be more social shaming about it. you know, if you're wealthy, you, more than any other voter, have the ability to just take one for the team. you know, how much money is enough? vote for american democracy. by the way, that is in your long-term best interest. so some of the short-term thinking -- >> that's the thing, mara. don't say take one for the team. help yourself. >> right. >> this guy is a crony. >> or your grandkids. >> they don't care. >> help yourself. help your bottom line, your

shareholders, your stock. this guy going to be terrible for american democracy and american capitalism. ask "the wall street journal" editorial page. they'll say that. >> they're in denial. what's the phrase, they think the goose steps are stop at their door. >> this is the big lie. he planted the seeds in 2016. he carried it out to fruition in 2020. he is going to do so again. we have heard from those who used to work for him, saying this man is dangerous. members of his own cabinet renouncing him. there was a striking moment last week i don't think got the pickup we anticipated. his former vice president, mike pence, also a man on the rnc stage who raised his hand saying, i'll support the nominee. but now he says, i can't go there. it feels like it should mean something, but too trump supporters, most republicans, and the billionaires, it doesn't. >> pence also, part of the reason why he didn't support him is because trump incited a mob that wanted to kill him. >> right. >> the level of what i call, you

know, the craziness in this country, where things that would require weeks of coverage in any other administration are blips. if any of this happened to joe biden, if one person in his cabinet said he was a dangerous person, it'd dominate the coverage for months. >> right. >> what you need to find are the people who used to work for trump who still support him. those are hard to find. this is the kind of stuff where it should hopefully get through but it doesn't. think about the dynamics heading into the election. it is a historic, i think the most important election in modern history, possibly in american history. the stakes are so enormous, and we can't simply treat unprecedented craziness as though it is running the politics. it's not. there is nothing remotely comparable, where droves of people from the biden administration is saying this man is dangerous. if they did, we'd cover it with the duty and the extensive attention it warrants.

for trump, it's a firehose of insanity. >> yeah. >> it is difficult to keep up with it. >> ed luce in "the financial times" last week wrote about the chaos. he said, and it was a great column, he said, "this is what's happened in the past five days." >> yeah. >> "why do i write this column? because nobody else is going to remember this because of the banality of chaos." yet, again, if joe biden's vice president or if somebody that worked for joe biden said, anybody said, "i'm not going to support this guy," chief of staff, there would be headlines for weeks. here, you have his vice president. how many secretary of defenses have said, "i can't support this guy"? how many secretary of states he had say, "i can't support this guy." ambassador to the united nations said, "i can't support this guy." go on and on, mika. it continues.

yet, and yet, people keep lining up to support him. >> that is where history, again, seems to be echoing, at least to put it mildly. brian, thank you for being on this morning. ahead on "morning joe," the no labels movement is pressing forward with trying to find a third party candidate to run this november. we'll have the latest on that effort and how it could impact the 2024 election. but first, congressman mike lawler is standing by. we'll talk to him about border security, foreign aid funding, and much more. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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nation's capital, washington, d.c. house republicans are pushing a new plan to raise the retirement anyone for social security and cut medicare spending. yesterday, the republican study committee, a group made up of more than 170 house gop lawmakers, unveiled their budget proposal for next year. it calls for, quote, modest adjustments to the retirement age to account for increases in life expectancy and transforming medicare into a premium support model. that model would see medicare compete with private plans as a way to reduce spending. the budget proposallegislation, designed to advance the cause of life by restricting abortion access. among those bills, one that could threaten ivf and another that would ban the federal government from producing

abortion-inducing medication designed to save a mother's life. joe. >> with us now to tell us why he opposes every mika read, congressman mike lawler, member of the foreign affairs and financial services committees. mike, let's get these out of the way. you do not support altering social security or medicare in its current form, do you? >> no, not at all. in fact, i've been very clear. i will oppose any cuts to social security or medicare. >> yeah. >> obviously, it is critically important we protect both of these programs for our seniors, and so i will do everything i can to work in a bipartisan fashion to do that. >> mike, because mika and i have been watching "turning point" on netflix, and recommend that everybody does. >> so good. >> we just got through the red scare part. i feel comfortable asking you this question.

are you now or have you ever been, sir, a member of the house republican study group? >> no. >> okay! there ya go. i think i was a member of whatever was -- >> in fact, joe, in fact, joe, they told me i was not conservative enough to be welcomed to it. >> that's interesting. when i was there, they kicked me out because they said i was too conservative. we started our own group. mike, there are a couple of things here that i'm really concerned about. i know a lot of americans are, and i would guess you are, too. if you could help us, take us into the room, not of the extremists but of the people that we've followed, chairman mccaul, chairman turner, the people who have been responsible and actually supportive of what ukrainians have been trying to do in keeping putin's forces out

of kyiv. what is the latest status? i kind of keep wondering, where are these leaders on ukraine, when are they going to sign a discharge petition? or when are they going to push the speaker, well, to give the ukrainians a fighting chance against russian invaders? >> you know, joe, this is of critical importance to the nation. since i became a member of congress, i've been pushing to continue to support ukraine. as i've said many times, my wife is from moldova. her family lives on the ukraine border. it is personal. i understand the consequences of failure here. from my vantage point, we have an obligation to support our allies. in 1994, when ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, we entered into a treaty. we said we would protect them in the event of an invasion. so we have to fulfill our commitments, especially if we ever want any country to believe

us ever again when it comes to nuclear disarmament. so this is important to get this across the finish line. it is why i worked with fitzpatrick and jared golden to introduce defending borders, defending democracies, which would provide lethal aid to ukraine, to israel, to taiwan, as well as enact provisions to secure our border. and i have signed the discharge petition to get that to the floor. all of us in the house republican conference recognize the threat posed by china, by russia, by iran. the question is how we move forward. i made it very clear to the speaker that the time for debate, the time for discussion is over. we need to act. we will either do so by the speaker putting a bill on the floor or by discharge petition. i encourage my colleagues, we do not want to see kyiv fall.

that will be a catastrophic disaster for the world. if america loses its standing as leader of the free world because we've failed to recognize the threat, because we've failed to act, that would be a disaster for our country. that would be a disaster for the republican party. >> so, congressman, i know in the senate you have republican leaders like john thune. in the house, you have republican leaders like chairman mccaul, chairman turner, who understand that it's not just ukraine and kyiv that's at risk. this is sending a horrible signal to the communist chinese party. basically saying, you know, putin, take ukraine if you want to take ukraine. xi, whenever you're ready to go into taiwan, go into taiwan. i mean, is there the

understanding by the speaker of the house and by people around him that if we don't defend ukraine, then china takes that as an open invitation to invade taiwan? >> look, american weakness on the international stage is never good. you know, i would submit that the withdrawal in afghanistan was a precursor to the russian invasion of ukraine. it showed weakness on our part as a nation. any weakness that china sees with respect to ukraine or with respect to israel is an open invitation to invade taiwan or set up a blockade. i went with chairman ccaul last year, visited taiwan. we understand the threat in the indo-pacific. we want a nato-like alliance in

the indo-pacific because we have to deter and maintain the threat against the chinese communist party. this is critical. i suspect in speaking with the speaker that as soon as we get the appropriations bills done tomorrow, that we will then move swiftly towards advancing legislation that will support our allies. that is my belief. that's my understanding from the speaker, that we will work to get that done immediately upon our return. that's my hope. because time is short. ukraine needs the ammunitions. they need the weaponry. israel needs the support. taiwan needs the support if we are to deter china from taking any action in the strait of taiwan. remember, 60% of international trade goes through the strait of taiwan. if there is a blockade, that will create an economic catastrophe for the united states and the world. >> congressman, good morning. yesterday, the white house called for an end to the impeachment inquiry into

president joe biden. we played some sound, conservative media figures, including those on fox news, also expressed skepticism about its future. yesterday, chairman comer says he wants the president himself to testify before the committee. would you support that effort? do you still back this impeachment inquiry into the president? >> look, the reason i supported the impeachment inquiry is because the white house was refusing to cooperate with certain subpoenas. as i've said repeatedly, i did not believe there was sufficient evidence for an impeachment. obviously, congress has oversight responsibility and should continue down that road. however, that does not mean that we should go towards impeachment. i have yet to see any evidence that would warrant the rise to impeachment. >> all right. republican congressman mike lawler of new york, thank you so much. great talking to you. >> thanks, joe. >> just for the record, he's not

for cutting social security. >> yeah. molly, it's interesting. on ukraine, taiwan, these other areas, it is interesting. it seems like the majority of republicans actually oppose what the speaker of the house is doing. holding ukrainian aid hostage. i don't really understand. >> except that the speaker of the house serves as the pleasure of the head of the republican party, donald trump, who does not want the ukraine aid for whatever reason to go through. >> yeah. >> look, i mean, there are reasonable people in this republican party. we just don't see them necessarily vote like that or talk like that. you know, lawler supported poet the impeachment of -- he voted for the impeachment of mayorkas, impeaching a cabinet member

which is completely unprecedented, and the vibes-based biden impeachment. we've seen republicans say stuff that sounds reasonable, but then at the end of the day, when the metal meets the road, the tires meet the road, they tend to vote for what donald trump wants. >> right. lemire has metal wheels, but it is usually rubber. >> yeah, the streets around here are tough. potholes. >> brush up on your ross perot. >> it is difficult. >> rev, we talked before about these third-party races. talked about, what are they called? >> spoilers? >> no labels? >> no labels, that's it. i'm sorry. no labels. but what is -- what's the purpose of no labels if -- i'd heard all along the purpose was to defeat donald trump.

but they're just not in that space anymore. they just aren't. i mean, things are -- the more things are cut up, the more it helps donald trump. they have to know that. >> no labels has now turned into no idea why they are there. i mean, because they can't find a candidate, and they seemingly have not been able to coalesce around a message. all of which helps donald trump. at some point, you have to ask yourself, is there a distraction? some of us, in my life, i've run for office to try to advance a point. wanted to be in the debates. >> right. >> they're not trying to do any of that. they're not leveraging anything. they're not trying to bring a different kind of policy to the forefront. what is this really about? and i think that in the confusion, it always helps the outside candidate and hurts the incumbent. that's what is a little

disturbing. >> donald trump's ceiling or, you know, he is going to have to a hard basement, let's say, 45%, 46%. the more you cut into joe biden's 47%, 48%, 49%. >> yeah. >> if biden ends up there, all you're doing is helping donald trump. >> there is real alarm in the biden world about the possibility of a third-party candidate. no labels, though they have no one at the head of the ticket, they qualified for their 18th state. they'll be on at least 18 state ballots this november. there is a belief that a third-party candidate would hurt biden more than trump. the biden team is focused on rfk jr. it is not clear where he draws support, could take it from each. >> the end of the day, once people know who he is, i really think -- i mean, aaron rodgers is actually a really tight fit for rfk. >> one would think in terms of the, certainly, persona, it'd suggest more helping -- would take more from trump, but the

last name is the last name. it is not a coincidence that president biden posed with two dozen members of the kennedy family at the st. patrick's day event over the weekend. the kennedys don't support this kennedy. they have a war room with operatives and lawyers to look at the third-party candidates and challenge them every step of the way. >> mika, what's coming up next? president biden is out west trying to shore up support from latino voters, and his campaign put out a video hitting donald trump on his extremist and racist rhetoric to describe migrant it. we'll play the clip for you. senator gary peters of michigan is our guest. he is the chair of the democratic senatorial campaign committee. he'll talk to him about the key races this fall for control of the upper chamber. "morning joe" will be right back.

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beautiful sunrise in washington, d.c. president biden traveled out west this week with visits to arizona and nevada, in part to appeal to latino voters. the campaign also released a new video highlighting just some of the extreme rhetoric trump has used to describe immigrants. watch. >> when i'm re-elected, we will begin, and we have no choice, the largest deportation operation in american history. the largest deportation operation in american history. years, if you call them people, i don't know if you call them people. in some cases, they're not people, in my opinion. but these are animals, okay?

what people are coming from, countries you've never heard of. languages that nobody in this country speaks. we have languages that are, like, from the planet mars. nobody knows how to, you know, speak it. they're destroying our country. they're destroying the guts of our country. we're taking in people that are very, very sick. with diseases that will be spread all over our nation. we'll start day one with deportation. we have no idea who they are, but they are terrorists. within moments of my inauguration, we will begin the largest deportation operation in history. we're being poisoned. they talk about the beautiful dream of migrants, sounds like like a fairy tale book. some of these people are monsters. >> why do you use vermin and poisoning of the blood? the press says, that's the language hitler and mussolini used. >> that's what they say. i didn't know that, but that's what they say. because our country is being

poisoned. we have countries that, honestly, nobody has ever heard of. we have languages coming into our country. we don't have any instructor in our entire nation that can speak that language. >> you know, i wonder if we have any instructors that can speak czechoslovakian. slovenian? >> it is a deficit. i can't do that. >> mika probably can because her mom came from czechoslovakia. >> sure she can. >> now the czech republic, yes. >> it is fascinating, is it not, that donald trump talks about poisoning of the blood of america because of the immigrants, and, yet, i think four of his five children were born to an immigrant mom. which, by the way, i think

that's great. >> fabulous. >> you know why i like that so much? i'm all for immigrant moms having kids. you're a child of immigrants. >> i mean, my parents escaped hitler and ultimately ended up here in the united states. >> yeah. it is interesting, though, why does he talk about immigrants this way? i don't get it. his life has been shaped by immigrants. immigrants have raised his children. >> yeah. maybe he doesn't think they're >> no. i don't think that's it. >> just saying. he's pretty misogynistic. >> maybe so. >> he says he can grab them by the genitalia. >> mika, thank you so much. making me uncomfortable. >> i'm just quoting him. >> yeah, really. but there's something really about that howie kurtz clip that

bothers me. i like howie a lot, but he talks about vermin and hitler this and stuff, and he says, the press would say, no. that's what hitler said. you don't have to say the press would immediately say that hitler said this. no. then trump goes, well, that's what they would say. no. it's what hitler said. the same hitler that donald trump had, you know, had hitler's speeches by his bedside according to his czechoslovakian wife. >> i'm telling you. every american citizen needs to watch "turning point". >> i agree with you. >> we need a review on history of the world. >> i agree. >> everybody should watch it. >> i agree, including our next guest. >> mm-hmm. >> senator gary peterson, of michigan. senator, how are you doing this morning? we have so much. we have a potpourri of topics you could talk about this morning, but why don't we start with this lunacy? donald trump is so

anti-immigrant, and yet, and i say this as a positive, immigrants have had such a huge impact on his life, whether you're talking about his mother, whether you're talking about ivana, whether you're talking about melania, whether you're talking about four of his children, and again, i see this as a very positive thing. why is it that he talks about the poisoning of the blood of america? >> yeah. it's absolutely outrageous. in fact, i'm also the son of an immigrant. my mother is an immigrant, a war bride coming to the united states after the second world war. we are all sons and daughters of immigrants unless we have native american roots. it is the very essence of what has made this country great, that folks come here to live their version of the american dream. they work hard. they raise families. it is the -- in my mind, it is the strength of our country, so to have donald trump attacking that is absolutely outrageous.

we have to make sure people are hearing his own words, what he says, and understand that he's attacking their family heritage, and they need to reject it. >> and by the way when donald trump talks about mass deportation and everybody is cheering in the audience, i've said it. i'm very tough on the border. i want people in america to come to america legally that are fair to immigrants from all over the world that can't just walk across the border, that have to work for years to become american citizens. that said, when he talks about mass deportation, he's talking about 12, 13, 14 years, never broken the law, have contributed to this country, are helping keeping family businesses, family restaurants, hardware stores open. i mean, i don't -- i don't know if the crowd understands what they're cheering for, but what they're cheering for is something that would definitely

harm our economy greatly. >> greatly harm our economy. many communities, most of the jobs come from small businesses, some of which, and in some cases, most of which comes from these people who have been here 10, 15 years trying to be part of america, and i think what really is troubling or really confusing to me, senator peters is that the democratic party in order to really run an effective campaign, needs to really make it clear to a lot of the latino community as a strong outreach by the president, that this is as basic racist as you can get. when we talk about racism, we're not just talking about blacks. when he's talking about poisoning the blood of america, he's talking about people from south america, mexico, latinos. what efforts are really being made to go into those communities, not just into the so-called progressive sides of those communities who i may work

with, but the churches in the latino community, their community centers where a lot of them are to understand he's calling you poison? he wants to deport you, and we may have differences on some aspects of foreign policy, but there's no one anywhere near joe biden's presidency that thinks you're poison. >> absolutely right, and we need to make sure that folks in those communities hear donald trump's words. it's him speaking. it's not us saying this is what he stands for. you can hear it directly, and as we go into those communities and talk about why it's important to vote, why it's important to get engaged to those citizens in those communities, part of it is how do we build economic development? how do we provide business opportunities? to joe's point, immigrants are some of the hardest working people you will ever meet. they have already overcome,

often significant obstacles to get here legally. they work hard. they want to start businesses. they want to be able to hire other folks. they are so important to our economy, and as democrats, we understand that. we welcome them, and we're going to make sure that they have the opportunity to live their version of the american dream and contribute to our society. >> senator peters, hi. it's great to see you. i was curious, you know, trump -- this is a very tough map for democrats, right? there's a lot of seats to defend. when trump tends to pick candidates that do very well in primaries and do very badly in generals or at least run a few points behind, has -- have any of these trumpy candidates opened the map up for democrats? and also another part of this, do you -- do you think texas is possible? we were talking about this before and we all want to know about texas. >> i do, but let me take your first point if i may, about

opening up seats and making them more competitive. you know, if you look at how we won the last cycle, if you look at history, we went to the senate and expanded it. we had better candidates, better incumbents. they were superior to who they are running against, and the reason for that is and why we could create that contrast, is because they were in very spirited republican primaries. the most extreme candidate got out of that primary, usually with donald trump's support. we saw that in ohio with the primary this week. we have a very extreme candidate that's going to really show a very clear contrast between sherrod brown in ohio, a champion for working men and women in ohio, versus moreno who refused to pay overtime to his employees. they sued him and he destroyed evidence to try to get out of it. he's all about himself, versus

brown who has been fighting his entire life for working men and women. it's that kind of contrast, that clear contrast that will show voters that it is much easier to make a choice and to vote for sherrod brown. i'm confident he's going to win. it's one of our top races we have to win, and now with this kind of matchup, that will certainly, i think, allow sherrod brown to do even better in ohio. in terms of texas, we have a real opportunity there. colin allred is a strong candidate. he won decisively a primary. he is a man of -- who was able to win a tough seat in the dallas area beating an entrenched republican. he knows how to win. he's running against an incumbent there in ted cruz whose numbers are very weak in the polling. his unfavorabilities are very high, and colin is out there working. he's got a background not only as successful in the private sector, but a former

professional football player. he's got a great bogty of a multigenerationed family in texas that allowed him to be successful by working very hard. it's the kind of example people in texas like. they'll see he is fighting for them as opposed to the incumbent who has shown time and time again to not include what's best for people in texas. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. take care. >> always a pleasure. and up next, house republicans hold another impeachment inquiry hearing that was more about political theater than producing actual evidence. we'll show you the democrat who called their bluff. plus, the united states drops in the rankings for the world's happiest countries. we'll explain what has americans feeling worse compared to last year. that's all ahead on "morning joe." we're back in just one minute. ag

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and so i just think we should do it today. let's call it out. i'll make the motion. you can second it. make the motion to impeach president biden. go ahead. you second it. no, nothing. okay. we got nothing. so i want to with my last comment, show the american people that they're never going to impeach joe biden. it's never going to happen because they don't have the evidence, okay? this is a show. it's all fake. they just want to do these hearings. it's not leading to impeachment. they're lying to their base on newsmax, on fox, leading these people to believe that they're

going to eventually impeach the president. it's not going to happen, at all, ever. period. they don't even had the votes even if they had it in committee. they don't even have the votes on the floor. they know that. they've got members resigning rather than taking a vote on the fake, faux impeachment. just ask ken buck who said the speaker ain't going to get me to take an unconstitutional impeachment vote. >> democratic congressman jared moskowitz challenging house republicans to hold a vote on president biden's impeachment during their latest hearing yesterday. he's, like, come on, guys. we got it. let's do it. you ready? >> he's good. he's good. as eddie murphy would say in "coming to america," that boy's good. he's good, and he's got a lot of material to work with, rev. a lot of material. i mean, at this point, fox, newsmax, they're all going, come

on. you're making fools of yourselves. obviously they have been watching "morning joe" for, like, a year because that's what we have been saying. >> i don't think so. >> i'm serious. when you start -- when you start putting arnold the pig as your chief legal counsel, like that's a hint. they have been making idiots of themselves for a year now. >> and when arnold starts oinking, it really -- >> here's actual footage in the republican caucus room arguing about, you know -- >> there it is. >> he's getting ready. he's getting ready for the next hearing. >> look at my guy. i got this. >> i'm sorry, rev. we didn't need to interrupt you. >> he's oinking while he's getting the cookies or something, everybody knows who your counsel is, and, you know, you have to give it to moskowitz. he really drove it home. i mean, it's -- as a preacher, when you go to the climax of the sermon, he went there, to where almost the republicans had to say, amen to that. >> he even had an invitation. >> yeah.

>> he said, start playing "just as i am," and come on up if you want to impeach. no takers. nobody came down front because they've got nothing on biden. i will tell what you irks me is it's not that these house republicans are -- they're just stupid. they've just acted in such a stupid way, and i wish there were a better word to use than that. there's not a more eloquent word. there's not, but what really irritates me is i have had people in the mainstream media as trump would say, telling me constantly like this one, why is the media avoiding this hunter biden scandal? we've all heard it. we need to do a better job and be more down the middle. i have been going through this with a couple of well-known journalists. i go, what do you got? oh, tony and give me more. they have nothing. >> no.

>> they have been pushing this, and i think a lot of media outlets have gone, well, we have to be fair on both sides. well, you have to be fair on both sides if there are facts on both sides. there have never been any facts here. >> no. i mean, you know, one of the tenets of journalism is you go where the facts lead you and not all facts are equal. not all sources are reliable, and the fact of the matter is there's no there there, and so continues to treat this as though there is is really doing a disservice not only to the president, obviously, but really just to americans, to the electoral system, and it confuses people because you start to think, oh, well, they're all crooks. there's no difference, and that really is the point, is to distract from donald trump's actual prosecution over, you know, very real -- very real issues and threats to democracy. >> right. >> and of course, you know, what we're seeing here is all of this impeachment talk was fine when

they were focused, when republicans were focused just on the primary. now you'll see them moonwalk here a little bit back because they're thinking about november, and actually i don't think that a circus trying to impeach the president is going to actually be very good for donald trump. so the whole thing is trying to save donald trump from himself, trying to save themselves from donald trump. i mean, they're twisted in so many knots they don't know what's up and what's down. >> right. and jonathan, as long as they weren't pursuing this as actively as they have been, and making fools of themselves, it was actually sad to say working -- you talk about disinformation. you could look at the polls and all of the lies about hunter biden, all of the lies about joe biden getting rich off of hunter biden, all of the b.s. all of the b.s. that the right-wing trumpers have been spewing, whether it's on podcasts or whether it's in

newspapers, whether it's in cable news, it's worked. and so the white house was really frustrated about, you know, whose bigger concern, you know, trump and all of his scandals are, you know, the biden crime family. they didn't put it quite that way, but it actually cut into joe biden's polling. so arnold the pig and his cohorts have actually done the white house a favor because they've exposed this lie. >> right. >> this was disinformation that they made the mistake of putting out in the light of day and light really is the best disinfectant and it's wiped this clean off the slate for, i think, for most voters now. >> in terms of a political play, they should have left it on fox news. leave it on the podcast and their fund-raising emails, but now that it's gone into the halls of congress, it's been exposed as a sham. they have been repeatedly unable to provide any sort of evidence. their best witnesses are

incarcerated or on the run and they haven't provided any sort of real evidence that president biden or his family have engaged in any sort of behavior that would be criminal or impeachable, and they're not giving up, at least not yet because chairman comer yesterday said he's inviting president biden to come he have, that he wants the president himself to come. >> that's why newsmax, and fox and everybody is going, hey. hey. leave it to the pig. >> right. >> just stop this. >> is arnold the pig one of the republicans who actually went to one of those elite schools? did he also have the degrees like ted cruz and josh hawley? >> no, which is why he's only smart when there. he went to arkansas. >> okay. we should just note -- >> post-grad at alabama where i went. >> roll tide. >> we had a picture of him up. i walked past, and arnold right there. >> yeah. >> damn straight he is. >> the white house did not respond just to close the loop here on the invitation of the president to respond, but ian

sams put out, that hearing was embarrassing for the house republicans. a total waste of time. it's time to move on from this sad charade. there are real issues the american people want us to address. >> alabama grad. and belonged to a very elite fraternity. there are a few of us scattered throughout who tried to overthrow the student government and get rid of the machine. if you want to do some real reading, the machine at the university of alabama, whoo! that was something. >> you failed at regime change? >> well, they eventually got driven off campus. they eventually did. i mean, really, i swear there is a great book about the machine and alabama politics over this century. it's kind of crazy, but ian sams, one of the resistance fighters. >> 'bama rush, as someone who watched the tiktok videos. i'm familiar with the machine,

so -- >> okay. so there you go. >> good try. good try. >> a select group of fraternities and sororities that ran the entire campus. i'm telling you. they talked about the machine? >> they did. are you allowed to talk about this? >> they're not -- we're not allowed to talk about it because, you know -- >> stolen. >> i was, like, trotzky at alabama. they used to love the machine, but they don't now, and i won tickets and football games, but back then they loved the machine. i had somebody in the administration call me in and say, son, i see you're running to abolish the student government. yeah. it's really not fair, and it's of course, because i had the light touch. i said, it's about as racist as george wallace. it's backward. it needs to be taken from the campus. he said, son, i see here you

want to go to law school. well, there are a lot of people down the street at the university of alabama law school, and i just cut him off and said, who says i want to go to your law school? there you go. i've given a lot of information that's made mika uncomfortable right now. by the way, university of alabama law school, a great law school. i was just ready to get out of there. >> it's actually incredible. okay now. i need you to stop. stop. >> can i talk about the giants? >> only if you talk about richard weekly newsletter "home and away." >> so when is "home and away" going to take on the fact that you guys pissed away all your money on a mid-range quarterback and destroyed the giants' future for the next decade? >> joe, do you wake up feeling this angry every morning?

>> this is me happy. >> joe, you've got to be -- the knicks for example are in their 51st year of rebuilding and i'm feeling it for the knicks. >> exactly. >> the giants have about another decade or so to go. >> is there a sadder team to follow than the new york knicks? >> they're looking okay this year, but the giants, they -- >> yeah. >> $40 million a year for daniel jones is -- >> yeah. kind of bad. >> inflationary. >> so if you answered the boston red sox to my question, is there a sadder franchise to follow, you win riceroni. you'll get your treat right after the show. mika, are you going to start the show up or not? are you going to introduce anybody? t.j., what are we waiting for? show us chopper 4 or something. give us a segue, and we'll try this again. let's start the show again. >> i tried to warn you that it's just -- it's a long show. >> three, two, one.

give us an intro, t.j. >> with us -- >> no. i need t.j. to give us some music cue or chopper 4. can we do that? give us some music. some music. >> i'm waiting on it. >> okay. he'll cue anything, seriously. okay. hold up, mika. ready? ♪♪ >> wow. >> okay, mika. three, two, one. you're on. >> welcome to "morning joe." our top story this morning, just take the shot off him. donald trump is saying, please pay my bills. pay my bills for me because i don't have it and bankruptcy -- that wouldn't look good. donald trump is reaching out to high-dollar donors in an effort to cover the massive civil fraud judgment against him. that's according to a trump ally who tells nbc news they were contacted by a member of trump's team. meanwhile a source close to the

trump family said the former president's defense team is still trying to figure out its options. i think they have until monday. they're discussing ways trump could appeal the judge's ruling without having to put the bond up, and what would happen if they can't secure the required sum? financial experts say, an immediate solution for trump's financial problems would be to file for bankruptcy. he's done it before. as "the washington post" points out, it could delay his requirement to pay the judgment by months or even years. however, the paper cites four sources close to trump who say the former president is not considering that approach out of concern that it could damage his re-election campaign. meanwhile former president trump is holding a fund-raiser in palm beach next month with tickets for the event starting at $250,000 or -- >> that's richard haass money.

>> for $800,000 -- for $800,000, attendees can receive the title chairperson. the funds raised will be split between the trump campaign, the rnc, state republican parties, and the save america pac which trump has been using to pay his legal expenses. >> mika, let's stop right there because there's a lot to talk about here. >> there's a lot there, yeah. >> first of all, let's just talk about the last part first which is he's going to have this big fund-raiser. he's way behind joe biden in money, way behind. the rnc, they're all getting hammered and they're going to throw a big fund-raiser, but then you see he's going to have to split it up four ways, and a big chunk of that, probably the largest chunk will be going to pay his legal fees. that is -- that is an ongoing problem not only for the trump campaign, but also for donors

who were thinking, okay. maybe i want those tax cuts to be continued if i'm a billionaire, but i'm not helping myself get those tax cuts. i'm just helping donald trump. >> of the four entities that will benefit from that fund-raiser, three of them could be channeling the money for trump's legal bills. this campaign itself, and the rnc which is now run by his daughter-in-law and his close allies and superpac. you also mentioned a key part here. there's a lot of anxiety among democrats about where the polls stand right now, but one thing that they continue to take confidence in is a massive and growing fund-raising advantage. the president, he wakes up in texas this morning. he's got $6 million worth of fundraisers later today. he raised money in nevada and arizona early they are week. they have tens of millions of dollars more on hand than the republicans do, and they bury them in ads. >> here, i talked to fund-raisers who have said for the first time in their lives,

raising money. they will call and say, we have an event for joe biden. would you? the people cut him off and say, my god. we have been waiting for you to call us. we want to do anything we can do to beat donald trump, anything. tell us how much to bring. tell us who to get, and these are people who of course, have always hated making these calls because it's always like dragging people in. not the case now. so you have a tale of two different campaigns as far as money goes. you've got the trump campaign, again, splitting everything up to pay his legal expenses, and the biden campaign who can't keep people away from giving. >> and in addition to the cash on hand that the biden campaign has, they also have a billion dollars that has been -- that will come to that campaign from outside groups that have committed to spending about that much. so that's going to make an enormous difference, and of course, you know, this is really the first time that we're seeing the financial drag on the campaign from all of the

prosecutions that donald trump has been dealing with, and so we're seeing that direct impact. i actually anticipate it's only going to get worse over the summer as more americans start paying attention, and the donations continue to flood in. i think also there is something to be said about the no labels campaign which i think probably won't go anywhere. >> right. >> i'll make that prediction, and so once those wealthy americans come to their senses, the hope would be that they too would start pitching in, and at the same time, you would have potential republican donors who may sit out and say, i just can't bring myself to do it. >> right. >> so this would be a good time for those wealthy americans to do their civic duty and try not to, you know, support donald trump's campaign. >> well, we've seen quite a few who supported nikki haley who aren't supporting nikki now just saying, i can't.

i can't support this guy. he's too crazy. i'm curious, rev, knowing donald trump as long as you have, as long as we have -- i think you've known him a bit longer, but what do you think the prospects are for bankruptcy for him right now? i mean, it's one thing if you are getting your companies, you know, in new jersey to go bankrupt. it's quite another to do this in the middle of the campaign. do you think he would ever consider that? >> i don't think he wants to consider it. it may come to that because he's probably from the time i knew him, surprised that no one has come in as he's apparently been reaching out to bail them out, and if he does file bankruptcy, it would be a desperate move. it's something that he knows would totally erode his brand, and totally say to some of those that are not just his very cult following type, that he really can't manage his business. he can't manage the country. he knows what it would do to his

brand other than his cult following. i think he would rather do anything than file bankruptcy, but it may be the only option he has. we are talking about monday, three days away, and the state attorney general tish james has said, i'm coming after him and he knows that's no joke, and you have to remember. he has to do this and pay for lawyers and other legal expenses in four criminal cases. this is not even one of the criminal cases. this is a civil case. >> right. >> he has a lot he's got to do because by the time he finishes arguing with the civil attorneys by trying this other entity for money, he's got four different legal teams calling him and saying, we need some more money for these court papers that we need to file. we need more money. >> right. >> he's in a tough spot. couldn't happen to a nicer guy. >> richard, let me -- let me go from one uncomfortable question about the giants to another uncomfortable question. what do you say to some trump

supporters, but also some legal observers who say that you had an attorney general who ran saying, if i run, i'm going after donald trump. she's gone after donald trump. "the new york times" had an article that said, she's used an old law to go after him in this case. now he's not the first. she also went after exxon and a couple of other entities, but because it's a bit unusual, there are some people, some legal scholars that say he's got a good chance on appeal to at least either, if not have the decision overturned, to at least modify the penalties as being excessive. so should he have to pay that entire bond? should he have to start selling properties so -- i see you

smirking. >> i'm not smirking. >> okay. should he have to sell properties and do all these other things just to reserve the right to go on appeal? >> a couple of things. one, is it reinforces the sense that central to his campaign, that he's a victim. >> is he in this case? >> i think the idea that he is being asked to come up with such a large amount of cash in such a relatively small amount of time, i don't know about you, joe, but what's the percentage of your investments that are liquid as opposed to a long-term private equity? >> this is the only thing i have to sell, this coffee mug, i'll sell for $15. i talked to a billionaire and said, can i come up with this money? he says, no. it doesn't matter how much money you have. you won't be able to come up with $500 million cash bond. >> most people that wealthy will have either will be, like -- >> it'll be spread out. >> private equity hedge fends, and they're not keeping it in their jpmorgan checking out.

it's not necessarily in stocks. it's unrealistic to ask for that amount of cash in that small amount of time, yes. >> another way to ask it, would you say if president joe biden was sued in texas by the texas attorney general, ken paxton after he got out of the white house and put in a position to come up with $500 million in bond money? >> the answer is two things. one, i'm slightly uncomfortable with these state things. >> i'm very uncomfortable about the state things. i'll be honest with you. mika will never talk to me. i can't say this when i'm in the same studio with mika because she won't talk to me for a week, but i'm uncomfortable with these state cases because what comes around goes around. >> it's interesting because there was an article in the "new york times" because states are increasingly the driving force when the government can't get things done, and we may all live to rue that day, but, you know, in terms of what's going on, i

want him to be -- people to go after him legally for the big stuff. >> right. >> i want the insurrection issues, january 6th. go after the stuff that really threatens america. i am uncomfortable going after him for these other things at the state level. go after him for what he really ought to be gone after. >> in areas, other than voted, you know, 85%, 90% against donald trump, like, in georgia. 11,000 votes, there's a lot of counties that could have, should have brought that case. i wish it hadn't been fulton county, a county that had gone so overwhelmingly against donald trump, but what galls me is the case that, you know, the case that i think -- well, two cases. you can't say one case is more serious than the other, but one of the more serious cases, where the guy stole nuclear secrets allegedly. he stole nuclear secrets, gave we secrets or secret war plans

to invade iran. you go down the list, and then according to his own people, asked his i.t. guy to destroy evidence. then he asked his guy that ran the grounds to flood the areas because the i.t. guy wouldn't -- i mean, the great frustration is that is in front of a judge who could not be more in the pocket of donald trump. so here i do have any concerns about these state cases, but it seems that the cases that the feds have brought, that involve national issues, my god. >> right. >> they're the ones he seems to be getting away with. >> you remember that, you know, actually if he was to be re-elected president, you can be pardoned -- you can pardon yourself for federal crimes. you can't do that for state crimes. >> right. >> that's one feature to consider. i mean, i do believe -- i hear

you, but i think that the larger risk is actually in allowing donald trump to continue his ongoing impunity that he has enjoyed for too many decades, and, you know, anybody else in the united states, if they committed crimes, which he may have done or if he committed civil fraud as inflating the cost of his real estate assets, anybody else would be prosecuted for that. >> right. >> anybody else would be held accountable, and so yes it is true that new york is now a solidly democratic state. it wasn't always, but at the same time he spent decades here not paying taxes. he spent decades not being held accountable while people all across new york city were evicted for not paying $800 in rent. >> right. >> so i actually think that there's every reason to go after anybody who has potentially

committed crimes, and, you know, afterwards he has every right to appeal as well just like any other american. i say let the legal system play out and, you know, it's hard to have sympathy because, you know, after his braggadocios behavior for all of these years -- >> right. >> yes, trump tower is at stake. well, this is what happens. again, all the rest of us have to pay the rent. we have to pay our bills. he should pay his. >> right, and mika, i have been saying especially in the federal cases he appears to be above the law. i have questions about the state cases, but i'm sure at the end of the day, i'll defer to you on either. >> if you even, you know, get to come home, but that's okay. >> oh. >> wow. that is -- she does not like talking about the state cases. >> that's cold. >> that is cold. i'm a little -- oh. by the way, it is so cold in new york. why is it so cold? and it's not just mika's chilling glare.

it's the first day of spring. >> yeah. it doesn't feel like it. >> holy cow, it's cold outside. >> i think we missed that. i think it was yesterday. >> it is. it's freezing here. trying to freeze us out. >> just bring me the camera. single shot. still ahead on "morning joe" -- did he -- okay. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu speaks with senate republicans, but not democrats. we'll take a look at what lawmakers are saying about his remarks amid the ongoing war with hamas. "morning joe" is back in a moment. amas "morning joe" is back in a moment

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democrats' egregious and hypocritical attempts to influence israeli domestic politics aren't some simple or narrow critique of a particular prime minister. they're an affront to the very independence of the state of israel, a sovereign nation, a robust democracy, and one of america's closest allies and friends. >> let me say this. i care deeply about israel and its long-term future. when you make the issue partisan, you hurt the cause of helping israel. >> there's an accusation that you are interfering in a foreign election. you should not show any distance between the united states and a close ally. that's what republicans are saying. >> well, let me say this.

i gave this speech out of a real love for israel, and if you read the speech, we called only for there to be an election after the hostiliies had declined, after hamas was defeated. >> as benjamin netanyahu held talks with republicans and house speaker mike johnson yesterday via video conference, and majority leader chuck schumer denied netanyahu's request to address the democratic caucus, and he made it clear, quote, he does not think these discussions should happen in a partisan manner, and again, once again, you see the republicans, you know, at a time of immense -- immense pain for both the people in gaza and for israelis who went through october 7th -- >> right. >> -- and for some who are feeling a sense -- a lack of validation from their own government, you've got the

republicans accusing the democrats for getting involved, but they're the ones actually interfering with foreign policy, with our foreign policy by not passing legislation that would support the israelis and the ukrainians. >> right. the israelis, the ukrainians, taiwan. i mean, it's astounding how exposed house republicans are leaving our close allies across the globe. i could say a couple of things first of all. the fact that anybody would question chuck schumer's support for israel shows you just how desperate republicans are, what political hacks they are, how they think you are too stupid to actually see chuck schumer's, what? 30-year career in congress. he's been the most steadfast ally of israel. that's number one. number two, richard. the crocodile tears from

benjamin netanyahu, again, the -- my question is who is so stupid? who does he think is so stupid to forget when he's talking about, oh, we should not interfere in fellow, you know, democracies. our democratic allies. that's all he does. he basically got involved in the romney/obama campaign. he was carrying donald trump's water repeatedly. we talked about going back to 2019, he would retweet something of donald trump, and not just the political leaders, but of morning cable shows. that's how in the weeds benjamin netanyahu got in supporting donald trump, in supporting other republican candidates and going against democrats. he's been doing this for years to now say, oh, chuck schumer

shouldn't -- it's preposterous. i want to say one other thing. again, as somebody who's been one of the fiercest supporters of israel across my adult life, it is deeply offensive that people tell me that i have no right to speak out when i think just as when i think my former republican party is hurting itself, or my fellow countrymen and women are hurting this country, that i can't speak out when a friend has a leader who made one tragic miscalculation after another and put israel in the weakest position it's been in since 1948. i'm not allowed as a friend to talk about that? that's just garbage. that's benjamin netanyahu just saying, let's just keep pushing this off as long as -- and the republicans want him do. just push it off because he doesn't want any accountability in the end. >> first of all, joe, you not only have the right. you have the obligation to speak out. if you think israel -- if you

care about the u.s./israeli relationship and you care about the future of israel and you think what they're doing is misguided, you have the obligation to speak out, the same way you do if the united states is doing something that's against our self-interest. i would talk about two tactical things that chuck schumer did. it's right to go after israeli politics, but not saying they need an election. you can't pursue this policy with military means only. i would keep the focus on that, and i want to call netanyahu's bluff. i don't like the idea that bb is talking to house republicans. why not then, have the democrats say, okay, let's have a conversation, and let's challenge bb on everything that he is doing? let's challenge him of going into gaza. let's challenge him on the use of large munitions in large

civilian areas and let's challenge him on political aspirations. >> how about asking a couple of basic questions? why did it take you so long to save your own people? why is you found out in 2018 where hamas' illicit funding came from and you and donald trump did nothing about it? why did you send your guy to doha three weeks before the attacks and you had the qataris saying, should we keep sending hundreds of millions to prop up hamas? you said, yes, yes. that would be a good question to ask, wouldn't it? because netanyahu won't answer any of these questions. >> so i don't like the idea that, you know, the republicans are playing this cynical game after not approving the legislation. they're the ones who are, quote, unquote, pro-israel now, but the democrats should use this as an opportunity to challenge netanyahu across the board, because again, what he's doing is against the law. we've talked about this here. it's not only bad for israel. it is going to be ruinous, i fear, for the u.s./israeli relationship, and that is in neither country's self-interest. >> again, what people don't

realize, and i guess these republicans don't realize it. maybe they don't talk to anybody. the clock is ticking. we have sunni arab nations, leaders who are ready to go in with the united states, help rebuild gaza, help bring about a peaceful solution, spend billions and billions of dollars there, and start working towards a two-state solution. that clock's ticking. the biden white house knows it. democrats know it. i guess republicans don't know it, but mara, this is, you know, campaigns are about contrasts. you have joe biden like for instance, talking about saving social security for senior citizens. you have republicans talking about cutting social security. donald trump saying, well, that's one thing we could do. we could slash social security, but on israel, you know, on colleges, kids have been calling biden genocide joe.

in michigan he's been attacked. look at the contrast here. you have joe biden who spent the past month desperately trying to work this out, trying to help gazan citizens knowing that if he just cuts off israel, things get worse very quickly. so he's balancing all these things. then you have donald trump on the other side and these republicans saying, let bb go into rafah and do whatever he wants to do. trump says, i'll let him do whatever he wants to do. i'll give him whatever he wants to do, and he needs to just finish it now. that's a choice. i wonder if voters are going to recognize that choice. >> well, tactically from a diplomatic standpoint, i can't speak to chuck schumer's decision to go as far as he did, but what i can say is that it's clear from an american political perspective that holding -- and just a moral perspective, holding bb netanyahu to account, asking the tough questions, is important as an ally of israel.

it's important for the united states to do, and it's also important to show americans that we do actually care about being an honest and fair broker in the middle east, that we can call a spade a spade when we see it, and that we care about human rights for all people, including israelis and palestinians, and i think that it's important too to say to american voters, we hear you, you know? a lot of younger voters are very upset, understandably seeing the deaths of palestinian children, and they want to know that bb netanyahu -- that those israeli policies are being held to account. they're not necessarily anti-israel. so, you know, i actually think that it wasn't a crazy move, and i think what bb is doing is extremely cynical, but that's what we should expect. coming up, a longtime employee of donald trump is

describing the culture inside mar-a-lago. what he's saying about trump's alleged efforts to hide caused by documents in his palm beach home and club. "morning joe" will be right back. home and club. "morning joe" will be right back he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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♪♪ a former longtime employee of donald trump tells msnbc the culture at mar-a-lago would have led many people to commit crimes on trump's behalf. brian butler also referred to in the classified documents indictment as trump employee 5, spoke last night on msnbc's "the beat" with ari melber. the mar-a-lago employee previously testified before a grand jury in the case involving trump's handling of classified documents. butler also told special counsel

jack smith that on june -- trump's valet and co-defendant us asked to move the boxes which he would later learn were full of documents, onto trump's plane in florida. butler said he later had conversations with his friend, mar-a-lago property manager and trump co-defendant carlos deolivera and there were secret visits to mar-a-lago in efforts to view and delete security footage. >> the way i see it, if these were his personal documents and/or he's allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage? why would you possibly move the documents when they are coming to retrieve them? to me, it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower level employees in

the position they're in if you did nothing wrong, and these are your personal documents? >> so you had the impression from the people around that trump knew the things that went down were bad or illegal, and he didn't want that on video? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, why else would you need to know the video footage and then why were we calling and asking me, hey. why didn't you tell me this guy was on video moving boxes? >> wow. butler added he does not believe the investigation is politicized and that if trump genuinely believed he was not in the wrong, he should have just cooperated with investigators. trump's co-defendants nata and deolivera have pleaded guilty to the charges against them. joining us is christy greenberg. she's now an msnbc legal analyst and christy, we'll get to the

documents case in just a moment, but i want to ask you about the bond, $464 million and counting, that i think trump has to pay by monday. you can let me know about the deadline, but a number of things are going around. i've brought up, obviously family members, who have a lot of money like his son-in-law, jared kushner, who received i think $2 billion from the saudis. the trump campaign sent an emergency memo to supporters via text on wednesday which included a message to attorney general james, quote, keep your filthy hands your filthy hands off trump tower. i don't know if he's going to try to get voters to help pay for this. if he gets someone to pay this for him, does he have to disclose that? >> he does not have to disclose that. there is not the requirement in the courts at least for transparency into the source of the money. they just want to make sure the money is there.

obviously it's a different question politically, obviously the american people want to know what the source of his money is, in particular whether or not it comprises him in his dealings with foreign governments and foreign leaders. it's a real national security issue. from the legal perspective, no, there is not going to be transparency. as for the deadline, yes, the money has to be paid by monday. he has to get a bond or put up the whole amount in crash. >> christy, thank you for braving the cold weather outside to come in and endure the cold weather inside. tj, i know you're running a little hot, but if we could turn the air-conditioner off, that would be awesome. seriously, you know, we will hand out canada goose coats afterwards if that's politically correct.

so $464 million. what happens if he can't come up with that money? >> tish james has a list of his assets, properties, bank accounts. she's going to look to put liens on those immediately. she's going to look to freeze and seize, to make sure they're freezing those accounts so he can't start moving money and then looking to get seizure warrants to seize. >> so they seize and sell it and gets money from that to get the 464 million? >> the key would be just making sure that you have enough to get the entire amount. yes, once it's frozen, then she can take various enforcement mechanisms to seize properties or bank accounts to actually make sure that everything is in place that she could actually seize it. coming up, democrats are

gearing up to push back on a third-party bid for the white house. we'll dig into their strategy to stop an outside candidate from sinking president biden's hopes for a second term. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪♪

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vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. the american people have been lied to by donald trump, rudy giuliani and various cohorts in government and media positions. they serve their own interests, not only to undermine the strength of our nation. i found precisely zero evidence of the bidens' corruption in

ukraine. no sources provided proof of criminal activity. no information has come from one source and one source only, russia and russian agents. the impeachment proceedings are predicated on false information spread by the kremlin. >> les parnas testifying before the republican-led impeachment inquiry hearing. invited by house democrats, he criticized donald trump and his associates for pushing what he said were false allegations against the biden family. and that the accusations came directly from the russian government. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. donald trump has until monday to come up with the bond to cover the nearly $500 million judgment

in his new york civil fraud case. if he fails to meet the deadline, the state could begin to seize his assets. garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: facing a monday deadline to post a nearly half billion dollar bond in the civil fraud case against him, former president trump is short on cash and running out of time. his attorney's emergency appeal filing still unanswered by the judge. he could have to sell off assets or risk having them seized by the state. >> you can't risk selling off trump tower in a fire sale at a discounted price. >> on wednesday he wrote, this case should be over, but instead the attorney general wants to abuse her power to steal my money. mr. trump owes 454 million of the total $464 million judgment. at an annual interest rate of

9%, that increases every day by $111,000 every day it goes unpaid. at mar-a-lago sources tell nbc news of concern and frustration, but not panic among mr. trump's inner circle about the approaching deadline. trump allies have asked some political donors about guaranteeing his bond. in another sign that the former president's legal issues are translate into financial headaches, new campaign fundraising numbers show him trailing biden by nearly $400 million. biden in arizona is pointing to progress on the economy, awarding $8.5 billion to grants to intel for semiconductor production in the u.s. >> i want to build a future in the u.s. my predecessor is going to let it be built in china. >> reporter: robert kennedy jr.

is polling at 6% according to a recent poll. family members who oppose his bid are set to step up efforts to boost president biden just days after dozens of kennedys gathered with president biden in the rose garden on st. patrick's day. >> jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton and molly jong-fast are with us. we have jen psaki with us, david drucker and tom rogers is back with us. great to have you all with us. jen, i'll start with you with the politics of however donald trump figures out how to pay or declares bankruptcy, aren't we in a stage in our history politically, whether it's good or bad, right or wrong, where he

can take anything, even bankruptcy and make it a political win? >> we don't know that yet. i will say in this particular case what this is exposing him as is a complete fraud. the emperor has no clothes here. >> would that be news? >> i think it is a reminder to a lot of people out there who may be thinking this is a guy who's a successful businessman. if nothing else, he can go back to the time where our economy was doing well, which you do hear from voters. voters are smart. we all know that. we know he went to 30 financial institutions. they all declined to help him in this case. he doesn't have the liquid assets available to pay the money he owes because he's a fraudster. that's the story here. in the biden campaign, you just sit back and let this happen and see how it transpires. it does mean in all likelihood that tish james, the attorney

general of new york, is going to go after and seize some of his properties if he doesn't come up with the money by monday. it does expose him as being a fraudster. >> i think he takes the opportunity to say, look at me, i'm the victim, they bankrupted me. i think most people know that he kind of doesn't mean what he says, which means fraud. some people don't care. i'm worried about members of the voting public who take him for whatever he is. >> trump has become extremely effective at playing the victim, no more so than the past year in the criminal prosecutions and now this civil fraud settlement. he's done a good job of connecting his plight with his supporters. it seems so farfetched but yet it resonates with those who love him.

hey, they're coming after me, they could come after you next. david drucker, tell us what you've heard as to how he might approach that, the messaging and the plan going forward as he now will have more ammunition, if you will, to claim the deep state is out to get him. >> we haven't seen any polling in this election cycle that will shows any of the ethical scandal around donald trump hurts him in his attempt to get reelected versus joe biden. i think we have to start from there and be skeptical that anything that happens to trump is going to have a serious impact on his political viability. i think the way president biden wins reelection is simply by making the case that he would be better at the job and reminding voters who soured on trump in 2020 that they have every reason to continue to be sour on him. republicans in washington always

uncomfortable about trump and these clouds that hover over him, but nobody's going to throw him overboard. a lot of them have become convinced there's not a lot that can be done when it comes to the former president's personal life or these legal cases or his business ventures that are going to throw him off course. so i think at this point they're looking at the numbers, and they feel extremely comfortable. look, we know mr. trump is always upset about this sort of thing. we also know he thrives on it, and he's used it to great effect. one thing about this new york case, of all the criminal indictments he's dealing with, the new york case is the weakest politically. in other words, to get people to take a look and say, maybe this is something i need to be concerned about, i think a lot of voters look at the new york case and say of the cases out there this really doesn't bother me that much. donald trump has declared

bankruptcy numerous times. it's been a part of previous campaigns against him, and the issue simply didn't go anywhere. let's see what happens. i'm just skeptical that we're going to see it have a material impact on his viability. i know republicans at this point are not that concerned. >> democrats have told me they also wish the new york case was not the one that went first. they wish it was january 6th or the classified documents. that would move the needle more. biden officials don't think even a conviction changes this election much at all. that package at the top of the hour we saw the photograph of president biden with the kennedys clearly in an effort to signal the blunt rfk junior, hey, the rest of your family is with me, not with you. no labels doesn't have a candidate yet, but they're on 18 state ballots this fall. the topic of your latest piece titled "it's time to label no labels as a vote for trump,"

tell us what you mean. >> the biggest threat to joe biden winning reelection, i believe, are third-party candidacies. i wrote that column to focus on joe jorgeson. he is a her. jo jorgeson got the third highest number of presidential votes in 2020, and nobody's ever heard of her. that's the scary thing. she got greater than the biden/trump margin of victory over trump in four of the six swing states, which is just to say how little it takes for a total nonentity to drain votes. when you start talking about names like rfk junior and whatever no labels comes up with

or jill stein and cornell west, that collection of third-party candidacies, even if all of them don't make the ballot, some will, we know we're dealing with an election that will be decided in six swing states. we know that margins are going to be tiny. we know there will be third-party candidates on the ballot. as the jo jorgeson story tells us, most of the drain will come out of biden's votes. that is the scariest thing joe biden faces. >> with no labels, the rationale that many have had in the past of running third-party or even those of us that ran in the democratic primaries is that we wanted to put out an agenda. we wanted to put something into the mainstream political debate that was missing. when you don't even have a candidate or clarity on some of

the other candidates or why they're in the race and they just could put the person you named up, then are you there to just be disruptive to the incumbent, because you're not really committed. when i ran in 2004, i wanted certain issues that were not in the primaries. they're not making that argument. they're saying we want to have a third party to have a third party at the risk of an incumbent against someone who represents everything that all of us feel is politically reprehensible. >> absolutely right, rev. when no labels started out, it was, well, if it's a biden versus trump rematch and you have so much of the country not wanting either candidate to run, well maybe this is the time for a third-party candidate who could win with 270 electoral votes, as unrealistic as that was. when they start talking about,

well, we could turn it into a contingent election, meaning a third-party candidate could win enough swing states to throw the election into the house of representatives and potentially end up with some kind of different result. the idea that a no-name candidate that no labels may come up with is going to even do that is unrealistic. you're left with a spoiler. as a spoiler, you are helping donald trump get reelected. the only way to counter this, because it's very difficult for me to see this is going to turn into a biden versus trump race, is to have a massive campaign in swing states so people understand that if they vote for a third-party candidate, it's not a throw-away vote or a conscious vote or, well, i really have to do something because i don't like either candidate, you are voting for trump and you will give him the presidency if you vote for a

third-party candidate. >> that is the play for democrats and the biden campaign. i thought the family picture with the kennedys was pretty funny and powerful. i still don't understand. i'm wondering if you have any insight into what rfk thinks he's doing? or does he know what he's doing? >> i don't want to be in rfk junior's brain where he didn't believe in science and all sorts of other things. i think this is the biggest challenge. unquestionably trump has broad support in his base. that's the only piece we know at this point. he has problems among independents and with an expanded electorate. but these third-party candidates are a huge problem. if you look at rfk, it's the name recognition issue.

there are still states in this country where the kennedy name is beloved where they may not know a lot about the fact that he is an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist. they don't know that yet. there is an aggressive effort that the campaign has been working with the democratic national committee onto run on this, but it needs to be broad. people need to be shouting it from the rooftops, because this is one of the biggest threats to joe biden being reelected, is these third-party candidates. if you look at michigan -- and i know elissa slotkin is going to be on later -- michigan is a state where rfk is polling at 10%. this is a place where joe biden needs to win, and rfk junior is making a real threat to that. it's good we're talking about it. more needs to be done and more people need to be talking about it and away ir.

>> the kennedy name still carries a lot of weight. democrats would do well to attach aaron rodgers' name to it as much as they can. the threat from third-party candidates remains. it might be young and progressive voters who feel so frustrated with what they see from this administration because of the situation in gaza. or they just feel, i think joe biden is a good guy, but he's too old, he doesn't speak for me. how do they combat that? >> they know it's tricky. first thing is that you can't take any voter for granted. i think that's a lesson from 2016. you can't think you're going to win. this white house, this campaign is pretty anxious. democrats in general are anxious, but i think these guys know the stakes of this election are impossibly high.

they have to talk about cancelling student debt. biden tried to do that. the supreme court overturned it, but he was able to cancel some student debt. that's a big deal. he has to show what he's done and what he's working to do, and he cannot take a single vote for granted. >> it's a challenge. i always think it's dangerous to try and game the system with a third-party candidate. yet, i'm not sure exactly what the biden administration beyond having a family picture with the kennedys can do to push back against that. i do think he does speak to a certain sector of the voting population. i think he is a threat.

>> listen, we have a number of americans that polling shows us are dissatisfied with both of the major party choices. that gives a third party or an independent candidate to play the role of a spoiler because they become a protest vote, not necessarily a vote for a rfk junior. just saying i don't like what you're giving me, i'm going somewhere else. i think there are a lot of unknowns. the biden campaign is taking this very seriously. the dnc has put together a team to focus on third-party candidates. that is something that tells us they're not just assuming that rfk junior or anybody else is going to fade. so i think these outside candidates are going to have to deal with some incoming that normally they don't have to. the other question is, on how many states do they get on the ballot. right now rfk junior has had a real hard time getting on the

ballot. he's only on the ballot in a handful of states or so. he's due to announce some new plan that shows how he's going to get on the ballot in all 50 states. that's time consuming. it takes a lot of money and expertise. we don't know that his campaign is going to be able to do all of that. no labels is in a much better position. they're interesting because we don't know if they're really going to end up with a ticket. they need to convince somebody to do this. they've had a real hard time doing that. their strategy is turning red states and blue states into battlegrounds where right now they are not. clearly in polling so far it has been shown that these outside candidates pose more of a threat to biden than they do to trump, although rfk junior is a really weird, anti-vaccine populist

sort of candidate. >> david drucker, tom rogers, thank you both very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. president biden has locked down another endorsement from a labor union, picking up support from the united steel workers, which joins other major unions like the united autoworkers in backing the president. the news comes days after biden said he was against the sale of u.s. steel to a japanese company. u.s. steel is based in a key swing state of pennsylvania. other unions including the teamsters have not announced endorsements just yet. president biden was in arizona yet, where he announced chip maker intel would be receiving a massive $8.5 billion investment through the chips and science act. the move, which also includes an

additional $11 billion in loans, will help intel build new facilities across the u.s. the white house says it will create roughly 30,000 construction and manufacturing jobs across four states. take a listen to what the president said regarding this investment. >> there's not a damn thing america can't do if we set our mind to it. it's going to put us on track to manufacture 20% of the chips by the end of the decade. i'm going to build a future in america. my predecessor is going to let the future be built in china and other countries, not america, because it may be cheaper for those investing. folks, i promise to be the president of all americans, whether you voted for me or didn't vote for me. today's investment helps all americans in red states and blue states all across america, urban, rural, suburban and tribal communities. we're not leaving anyone behind. if we invent it in america, it should be made in america.

>> the biden administration also announced another round of student debt forgiveness this morning. the white house says it is forgiving nearly $6 billion in student loans for an additional 78,000 public service workers. that includes teachers, nurses, firefighters and more through the public service loan forgiveness program. so far the administration has cancelled more than $143 billion in loans for nearly 4 million borrowers through various actions, fixes and federal relief programs. u.s. stocks rallied on the news that the central bank is planning three interest rate cuts this year. the fed ended its meeting this week holding the benchmark rate steady for a fifth time with fed chair jerome powell saying that while inflation has cooled considerably, it's still too high. the fed's projection of three

rate cuts this year is down from four at its meeting in december. and the u.s. justice department could be getting ready to sue apple. according to bloomberg, citing people familiar with the matter, the u.s. justice department is accusing the gadget giant of violating laws by blocking rivals from accessing hardware and software features of its iphone. earlier this month, apple was hit with a $2 billion anti-trust fine in the eu. we'll be following that story as well. coming up on "morning joe" for the first time in 12 years, the united states is not ranked in the top 20 happiest countries in the world. we'll explain why. plus, congresswoman elissa slotkin is our guest this morning. we'll talk to the former cia analyst about u.s. foreign relations and much more. and arizona state senator

eva birch revealed intimate details about her personal life in order to draw attention to the fight over reproductive health rights. she will join us ahead as well. we'll be right back. n us ahead l we'll be right back. severe eczea disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema—fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant.

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we have some unhappy news for americans. for the first time the united states is no longer ranked as one of the 20 happiest countries in the world. we're not happy. that's according to the annual world happiness report. americans under the age of 30 feel worse about their lives, includingin less supported by friends and family, free to make life choices, less stressed and satisfied with living

conditions, less confident in government and having increased perceptions of corruption. hmm. the u.s. still ranks in the top ten countries for those 60 and older, but for those under 30, it ranks 62nd. at the bottom of the list, afghanistan remains the lowest ranked country for happiness. turning now to tensions with china, recent comments made by taiwan's defense minister seemed to imply that american troops are currently training members of the taiwanese military on its outlying islands on the front lines of the conflict of china. the "wall street journal" reports the defense minister's comments marked a rare acknowledgment by taiwan of activity by american troops on its territory. joining us now, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan, a member of the house

armed services committee and a former cia analyst. i'd like to hear your reaction to the report i just read about american military assistance on these taiwanese outlying islands. >> i mean, without going into details on those specific islands, i will just say i think we're open about the fact that we have a military relationship with taiwan. we have delegations that come here to the united states. i went myself a couple of years ago. lots of members of congress on a bipartisan basis have gone. we all know that we're concerned about scenarios in the future where china could take military action to take taiwan. we don't want that to happen. we want to deter that from happening. one of the ways you do that is by helping the taiwanese become like a porcupine, spiky and difficult to take. it doesn't feel terribly like

breaking news to stay we have a military relationship with the taiwanese. >> good to see you and the tour group behind you there. [ laughter ] we want to turn you to the situation in the middle east. we have heard from majority leader schumer being sharply critical of benjamin netanyahu, suggesting israel needed new elections. netanyahu hit back. we've also heard from donald trump suggesting that no jewish person should vote for a democrat, suggesting it was a matter of religious faith. that's a backdrop to the waiting game to see what israel will do in rafah, which the white house has tried to put some guardrails up. how do you see things unfolding? >> we just got reports this morning that the speaker of the house has formally invited prime minister netanyahu to come to washington. i think the important thing longstanding with israel is

there's been a bipartisan consensus with support, no matter which administration, democrat or republican, that's been in basically since their founding there's been support. that's the backbone of that strong relationship. you just don't want the sort of weakening, the bending of that kind of bipartisan support. while mr. netanyahu has done and said a lot of things that i think a lot of americans are concerned about, i think the long play for israel is to maintain that bipartisan relationship. so i hope he sees that long game. in terms of what's going on in the middle east, the fact that some of this criticism is happening now out in the open between the white house and netanyahu reveals -- you know, we tend to not do that unless we can't get the point across privately. no one wants to see that public back and forth, but it's because people feel like they're not being heard. we want to understand what the

end game here is in gaza. there's got to be a plan. it's hard to discern that from far away. >> congresswoman, it's jen psaki. as you know well from all the work you've done in national security, a lot of what happens behind the scenes we don't see. as you just said, it's significant there is now a public tiff between the united states and israel right now. it shows, as you said, people aren't being heard. what kind of leverage, though, do you think is appropriate? i mean, there's challenges with limiting aid and assistance because they're such an important partner and the iron dome needs to be in place. what do you think would work? what would you be open to supporting? >> we have a big hearing on this today in the armed services committee. what we're going to hear from the pentagon and understand from the sent come commander what is the plan as you understand it. help us understand what the military objectives are here, because that hasn't been clear.

besides wanting to uproot hamas, it reminds me of when i served in places like iraq. you can have a military objective, but you've got to be clear-eyed about its effectiveness. that was a hard lesson we learned in the united states. we're going to have that hearing today. i took note of the fact that the president now requires the secretary of state and secretary of defense to certify that israel is allowing humanitarian aid into gaza. that is their obligation under international law. it's a small kind of wonky thing, but that's asking secretary blinken and secretary austin to do everything they can from their end to get aid in. you're going to hear a lot about that. it's an unusual step for a president to take. >> congresswoman, al sharpton here. on another issue before your

committee is haiti and the fact that there has been this kind of anarchy in haiti, no real leadership, americans being evacuated. there are many haitian leaders in your state that stood with the mayor of new york and others here, saying there's got to be something done about the gun trafficking coming from florida and other parts of the united states that these gangs are getting from the united states. there are no gun manufacturing plants in haiti. what is being discussed with the committee and the democrats in the committee about this kind of anarchy right in our hemisphere below florida? >> this really hit home in michigan where i'm from because we had a significant journalist who had to be evacuated out. we sort of lived it in realtime in michigan. i think there is just deep

concern and frustration with just the successive inability of haitian governments to rule and to govern. you've seen basically a breakdown in total sort of civil order there. americans have not always gotten it right when we've gone to haiti. there's real trepidation about saying there should ever be any military action, because we have had not-so-distant failures. i think there's a lot of concern and handwringing but not a lot of great options for haiti, which has gone through so much as a country. not much from the armed service committee, i will be honest. >> democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin, thank you so much for being on the show. great to see you. on yesterday's show we played for you some of what arizona state senator eva birch

recounted on the floor of the state senate about her own abortion experience. here again is some of her story. >> i don't know how many of you know this, but a few weeks ago i learned that, against all odds, i am pregnant. many of you know that i've had kind of a rough journey with fertility. i had my first miscarriage more than 13 years ago, and i have been pregnant many times since then. twice i was lucky enough to successfully carry to term, and i have two beautiful healthy little boys. now, i wish i could tell you otherwise, but after numerous ultrasounds and blood draws we determined that my pregnancy is, once again, not progressing and is not viable. i don't know how many of you have been unfortunate enough to experience a miscarriage before, but i'm not interested in going through it unnecessarily. right now the safest and most appropriate treatment for me and the treatment that i choose is abortion. but the laws that this legislature have passed has

interfered with my ability to do this along with countless others. arizonans deserve the liberty and freedom to make those decisions for themselves. >> the mother decided to reveal her personal story as a wakeup call for state legislatures, giving them a real look at how their policies affect the residents of their state. she joins us now. i really appreciate your coming on. i was so moved by your words and so grateful for them, because you vividly and deeply personally showed that abortion is health care, that abortion isn't the harsh, narrow-minded religious lie put out by the right, but that it's actual health care, like prostate health care, like chemotherapy health care, like mental

healthcare. abortion, especially in your case, is making your life healthier. it is not something you want, but it is something that you need and choose to have as part of your health care. how are you holding up? >> thank you so much for having me on today. i'm doing really well. i actually had my abortion yesterday less than 24 hours ago i had my procedure. i'm doing very well now. i recovered very quickly and i'm back at work today. i'm doing really well. thank you for asking. >> i'm so interested to hear more about that given how public you went about your plans and also the points that you were making about the reasons why you need this type of health care. how has the reaction been and also the procedure itself and what kind of discussions did you have about the politics behind all of this, which has really

made all of this so much harder for women across america depending on where they live? >> as far as the reaction is concerned, it's been overwhelmingly positive. i've had so much support, so many people reaching out to me with their own stories. there have been some negative reactions, of course. what's interesting to me is when i'm online looking at all these different reactions to this story, i see so many people try to argue that what i'm doing isn't abortion or that what happened to me doesn't qualify as abortion somehow. i think there's a real misunderstanding that we have to talk about this. it doesn't matter what the circumstances are for the individual, everybody has to fall in line under same laws. i have to follow the same guidelines and procedures as anyone else, no matter how they impact me. when we look at health care, health care isn't either an emergency where you're going to die or you're fine.

there is a whole spectrum in between. a lot of things count as health care. how your family is going to be impacted by a pregnancy, how your finances and your socioeconomic status, that impacts your health. the relationship you have with your partner and whether that's healthy or whether it's dangerous, all of these things count as a part of how their health is going to be impacted by a pregnancy. just because mine might be easier for some people to understand doesn't mean that it's any different in this spectrum of how it relates to my health care outcome the same way it does with everyone else. >> i mean, in some cases, if a woman does not have the termination, the abortion she needs for her health care, she's left sterilized or left in a position where she has to bring a baby to term that will die. these are the realities that women who have fetal abnormalities have to deal with

now because of the overturning of roe. i'm curious, had you not had the abortion, what was the fate you were facing? >> i was inevitably going to have a miscarriage. there's no question about whether or not i was going to be able to carry to term. i was not. i have had miscarriages before, and that was not something i was interested in putting myself through again. it wastraumatic experience for me. it's painful and frightening. i've had very negative experiences having to go through miscarriages in the past. having an abortion was the right decision for me in my circumstance. there was not going to be any scenario under which i was going to be able to carry a baby to term. so abortion was the choice that made the most sense for me. >> i want to frame that a little bit, if i could, because you have been so generous with your

personal information and sharing your story. you would have miscarried. you were sure to miscarry had you not had an outpatient procedure yesterday that went so well you're on national television right now. instead, you would have been waiting for an experience that would have been shocking, traumatic and also unexpected. you don't know when it's going to happen. i want those on the far r who somehow have dreamed up that this is part of their religion, which it's not -- we can just put that to the side and have that debate another day if you think it's your religion. now look at this woman here who is healthy, who is speaking about her experience of going

and getting a healthy abortion, abortion health care so she's not in the position of bleeding out or having a miscarriage at the drop of a hat. eva, i don't understand why this is hard. i'm sorry to take your graphic story, perhaps make it even more graphic, but i think the vividness of what you're talking about is what we all need to talk about. i'll say it again and again, it's health care, it's abortion health care. to never say that word without attaching health care to it, to remind those that they have someone in their life who might need an abortion, that it doesn't only apply to people on the left who are bad and sacrilegious in some way, but people on the right who are somehow still holding onto this abortion is evil concept are going to have someone close to them or even themselves who are

going to need one in order to be able to have more children in the future or to not die or bleed out. am i making myself clear, eva? also, i just want to thank you for helping explain this. >> of course i agree with you. i don't mind sharing the details of my story. i knew when i stood up even though it was a vulnerable moment, everybody could hear my voice shaking. it is a vulnerable moment for me, but i knew when i decided to stand up and share that story that i was sharing my experience. i was pregnant at the time of this speech. i want people to have a more accurate picture of what the abortion patient looks like, because i do think there is this narrative that people who are against abortion want to push about who the abortion patient is and what that looks like.

we have to combat that, because it's inaccurate and unfair. abortion bans are unpopular. >> totally agree. again, there is so much misinformation. arizona state senator eva burch, thank you so much for sharing your story. i'd love to see you again soon on this show. >> thank you for having me. it's such an important conversation. it's the larger conversation about how we take control of the situation and translate it into action and get people to come to the ballot and make sure their voices are being heard in a meaningful way, the way they're not being heard in the arizona legislature right now and in legislatures across the country. >> absolutely. thank you so much. molly, what more can we say? this is the kind of story

telling and the kind of discussion that women need to have, politicians need to have. again, we have to meet the fight where it is. the fight is that they call it abortion. they call it the right to life. it's health care. i really think when we use the word abortion, we need to add health care to it just to drive the point home. eva's health care, your health care, my health care, my daughter's health care. >> yeah. i mean, look, there was this amazing report from lift louisiana out two days ago which documented all of these women and doctors talking about how hard it is in louisiana to get prenatal care, not even abortion. you have doctors who are afraid to treat patients before 12 weeks, because they're worried they're going to get blamed for miscarriages. i think it's really important.

this is affecting every pregnant woman in a red state and even in some more restrictive blue states. their care is suffering because of these abortion bans. it really has enumerable effects. >> mika, i would add i think the period since dobbs has been so dark for so many women across the country, but it has also brought out of the shadows so many women who are willing to tell their stories, which is so courageous and so difficult. we all know people who have had miscarriages, who have had to have abortions because their child was not viable, who have had trouble conceiving and needed access to ivf. these are stories millions of women are experiencing across the country that have not always heard them told.

this is very difficult. it's dark. our rights are under threat. but it is also remarkable that you have these women out there willing to talk and willing to give some attention and light to these stories that so many people are experiencing. i will also say these personal stories are what are going to get women out politically to the polls. it's not the statistics. it's not like these legislatures or these states. it's these stories of human beings like kate cox and eva burch and others who are willing to tell the story and are courageous to do it. that's what's going going to mo in november i think. >> and really quickly, remember if eva didn't have the abortion that she had yesterday, which she did outpatient and then was on our show today, she would not be on our show. she would not be going to work. she'd be waiting to miscarry. are you kidding me? jen psaki and molly jong fast, thank you both very much for being on this morning. and coming up, we'll take you inside palm royal, a new

mini series that follows a former beauty queen as she attempts to cross over into palm beach high society. this is quite a segue. we'll speak with one of the stars of the comedy drama, actor josh lucas next on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. nutes. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free.

i'd only been in palm beach two weeks. >> we don't know you. >> i'm maxine delacourt. >> the palm royal, the most exclusive club in the world is where i belonged. >> you are the woman to know in palm beach. >> i don't like you, mmaxine. >> you're very good at making things awkward. >> i don't concern myself with the shenanigans. >> what is evelyn wearing? >> sleeves. >> i parked on the lawn. >> robert, shake me another

martini, and then let's play doctor. >> that was part of the trailer of the new apple tv plus series featurering kristen wiig and a star-studded cast. palm royale takes a comedic look inside the deadly serious social scene of palm beach, florida's fictional elite. the show's characters scheme, cheat, and lie in order to climb their way to the top of the palm royale country club. joining us now, josh lucas. that looks like a lot of fun. >> we had some of the greatest times of my career, and i think i could speak for the rest of the cast, you know. the cast was stocked with -- stacked with some of the best comedic talent, and acting talent in the business. you have alison janie, laura dern, laura dern and her father bruce dern worked together for the first time, the incredible carol burnett who gives a pretty

remarkable performance. for most of it she's in a coma, so -- but yeah -- >> you'd think that'd be easy acting, but maybe not. >> not at all. we think we've got something really special here, something we all really love. >> as you sat down, you illuminated to us the connection that this palm royale has to a place we talk about a lot on this show. >> sure, mar-a-lago. you know, the thing that -- so look, we create add piece of what i think is just a wildly fun, silly entertainment, but the undercore of the show is the reality that palm beach, florida, particularly in the 1960s was filled with this group of the extreme wealth of america that were totally disconnected from the realities that were happening around them in the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and you know, laura dern's character is a woman who comes from that society but has sort of rejected it and wants to be a part of the civil rights movement and the

women's rights movement, and so she challenges the character. i mean, all of this is done with a very light touch, but i think there's a satire there, and there's a kind of deep satire that's attempting to kind of say like where we were and, obviously, the palm royale the fictional beach club that we exist in there, that our whole -- the whole show is about how they basically out rich each other, you know. and it was true back in the day that they would have these insane parties that would each week, they would try and spend more money for no reason other than to be more rich than the other person. >> and they were pretty much insensitive to the rest of society that was struggling to make ends meet. it was a battle between the elites and i would argue that it has been inherited by the mar-a-lago kind of psychology today. >> oh, absolutely. no, they were not just

insensitive to it. they were -- they could careless about it. it doesn't exist. it was a part of their world -- which i think you could easily say is still going on, right? the palm royale is a fictional beach club, but the reality is that beach club that the show is based on, the real one, became mar-a-lago, and that this world that these people have, you know, that they -- they end up having this -- these parties that are totally out of touch with what's going on in the rest of the country, and frankly, they do so with glee, yeah, it's fun. >> glee's a good word. there's a lot of buzz around this series. you can stream the first three episodes of palmroyale on apple tv plus right now. subsequent episodes premiering every wednesday through may 8th. josh lucas, thank you so much for joining us. >> very proud to be here. we'll catch you again here tomorrow morning, josé diaz-balart picks up msnbc's coverage after a quick final break. verage after a quick final break.

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