to actually push through articles. >> yeah, put me down as not yet convinced they're not done pursuing this. >> okay. >> it is unlikely they have the votes at this point, but they're going to do everything they can to get there. they've been telling voters for years and years now that this is a crime family, that joe biden has committed an enormous crime. there's scandal here, and they have to do something about it. obviously, they're talking about exit ramps, whether it is a criminal referral or something short of impeachment, but it's hard for me to look at them, come to the conclusion after looking at joe biden for all this time, that he didn't do anything wrong. that'd be the signal they send if they don't move to impeachment. don't give up on them yet. >> we will see. brendan buck, appreciate it. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. some more political news today. biden canceled nearly $6 billion

in federal student debt for thousands of public service workers. [ applause ] it was a bold decision by biden. i'm not sure march madness is the best time to give everyone more money. that's right, biden canceled almost $6 billion in debt. the one guy was like, "now, do me." please. >> donald trump could use the money because he is days away from potentially having some of his assets in new york seized. we'll tell you which properties new york attorney general letitia james appears to be targeting. plus, a development that should be surprising to no one. a deal between donald trump and the rnc will make it more likely that donor money is spent on his legal bills. and we'll have a look at president biden's time on the campaign trail this week, which included a new nickname for his predecessor. good morning. happy friday. welcome to "morning joe."

it is friday, march 22nd. does it feel like friday, joe? >> yes. [ laughter ] >> yes. >> does it feel like friday? it felt like friday on tuesday. >> i know, i know. we love it so much. anyhow -- >> i mean, i wish it could be monday all over again right now. >> yeah. not really. with us, we have former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri. she's co-host of the msnbc podcast "how to win 2024" with claire mccaskill. the host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch," donny deutsch is with us. and executive director at "politico," sam stein, doing "way too early" duty for us this

week. thank you, sam. >> sam, how are your brackets doing right now? >> not particularly great, honestly. lots of upsets of my picks, but i was actually kind of pleased to see kentucky go down, even though i had them going pretty far in the bracket. i don't have a love for that program. >> huge upsets all around. >> oakland. >> oakland! >> who would think the a's would be any good in the postseason? >> i know. 11 seeds. yeah, kentucky getting out of there early. we're going to get to the story in a second, but, jen, i've just got to say, you've been in the middle of quite a few political campaigns. what a nightmare. i'm dead serious here. what a nightmare it has to be, being a part of donald trump's campaign, being grossly underfunded, and knowing that trump has put his family in charge of the rnc for being a republican candidate down

ballot. i've been one of those before. you're just praying that the rnc can help you out. and knowing all of that money is going for a guy who is just completely beyond cash strapped. i mean, for legitimate reasons. there are a lot of billionaires that wouldn't have $500 million lying around. but they really are, he has along, but they're really leveraging his campaign for his personal use. >> yeah. >> and it's -- these are the sort of things that may not show up in stupid polls in march. >> right. this is the stuff -- >> come on. >> -- that as you make that final turn after labor day, this is when things -- and i'm not saying it's going to happen, but i thought stuart stevens had

good incite. said everybody is talking about how this race looks right now. to stuart, and he knows a thing or two about campaigns, he said it is looking like 1980 in reverse. jimmy carter, ronald reagan, all year, too close to call. >> yeah. >> things just flipped near the end. that's what stuart says. if you look how things are lining up, we don't know what's going to happen the next six months, but, man, if you look at the fundamentals of politics, this is -- this looks like -- this looks like stuart may be on to something. alex told me they got stuart's bite here. play stuart, and we'll talk about it. >> my image of the trump campaign is somebody walking around with a paper bag full of water. i don't think it is going to leak, but when this thing goes, it is going to go quickly. there is a good chance we're going to have a situation like 1980 in reverse. carter was tight with reagan until the middle of october, and

kind of the bottom fell out for carter. >> i always tell my kids, if things look like they're too good to be true, they're too good to be true. if you're looking at something that just doesn't make sense, you know, there's a reason. and here, we're looking at something that makes no sense. this guy is getting crazier by the day. he's got no money. the campaign is just broke. people don't want to give money. he's down 200,000 contributors to where he was this time in the cycle four years ago. biden raised $71 million. people are begging, literally begging, literally begging. any idiot running a podcast, they're begging. they're calling contributors and saying, "how can i help? i want to write checks for joe biden." put the number up again. what did tip o'neill say about money in politics? it's the mother's milk of politics. right now, joe biden has all he

wants. donald trump is a little thirsty. getting crushed here. here's the most important thing, it's the small donors, too. it's not just the big ones. why? i've always talked about my grandmom giving money to the ptl club. at some point, you figure out what jim and tammy faye are really up to. if they're writing $25 checks to donald trump, it's not going to make america great again. it's going to donald trump's lawyers. >> yeah. that is, like, if the polls were right, why is joe biden getting a lot of money? you know, some is big checks, some small donor checks. donald trump is not getting anything. you know, we don't talk enough about trump's weaknesses and the fundamentals of his campaign are very weak. you know, he doesn't have any money. he has 91 counts against him,

four indictments, trials he's trying to balance, and he can't raise any money. he has to raise half a billion dollars by monday. you know, i think we need to brace for the -- i bet you'll agree with this. like, the polls might not change in biden's favor until the fall. >> right. >> that's when people are going to start to pay attention. >> just so people understand, we went into the final week, and i'm old enough to remember this. donny is. final weekend. there was, you know, "time" magazine coming out, back when we had magazines, when we were younger people and had magazines to read. >> the paper. >> the friday before the tuesday election in 1980, nobody knew if jimmy carter was going to win or ronald reagan was going to win. just a collapse over the weekend. >> yup. >> you look at the fundamentals. you look at the fundamentals. you look at the economy. we're going to show an ad. are you better off than you were

four years ago? damn straight you are, unless you're donald trump. >> yup. >> like, the fundamentals in every way. the money, the economy, you name it. this week, we find out jay powell is doing three interest rate cuts. if anybody is going, he's whistling past the graveyard, no, i'm not. i'm just telling ya. you lookfundamentals, it doesn't make sense that donald trump is going to pull this out at the end. he doesn't have money. >> and they don't -- and why the money is so important for biden right now, he's the one we need to learn more about. he is on the air right now reaching the voters that were for him in '20, that are wishing now, and telling them what they need to know in march about what he's accomplished. we're like, when are all these accomplishments going to great through? starting now because they can

put the ads on the air. >> big question, too, will trump have the money to go on the air in july, august, september, october? >> yeah. >> at the rate he is going, maybe something will dramatically change with the fundraising, but looking back at 2020, his lack of being on the air is what a lot of analysts attribute to some of his slump in battleground states. if he can't get the fundraising numbers up dramatically, it's not good for him. he's going to fall victim to the same pattern. >> what does joe biden have to do? donny, we'll talk to you about this in a second. i had the conversion thing, where people say, we ought to go after this voter or that voter. i'd say, my family, we grew up as a crest family. we just did. >> not colgate. >> us, too. >> you can give us a -- you can give my dad all the free colgate samples, and he'd throw it in the crash cans. what the hell, mary jo?

there are crest families, colgate families, the aqua whatever that was. >> aquafresh. >> that's for the rebel, man. >> the stripes. >> here, joe biden, he doesn't have to turn crest families into colgate families. he just needs the crest families to go back to the cabinets and open it up. young voters, hispanics, black voters. he needs to hold serve. >> right. >> it is easier to hold serve. this isn't a pep rally for democrats. this is just politics 101. that's what joe biden has to do. donald trump, he can do it. we have seen it before. he's got to break a lot of serves between now and november to win. >> i think that's absolutely right, joe. but i was listening to you, and i wanted to ask you this question because i think, you know, the analogy to '80 makes

sense to me. but against the backdrop of the culture wars, against the backdrop of the deep divisions that go beyond politics as usual, i'm thinking about this sense that we've lost the country. what makes donald trump interesting is not, to me at least, it's not the particulars of who he is. he is an avatar for these conflicts. so what role will the culture wars play in this? >> the same they've always -- they've always been there. culture wars have always been there. >> at this level of intensity? >> it's just always been here. i would say, actually, the republicans, you look at the republicans, look at the noise machine, look at all the outlets running their stories. remember the immigrants with leprosy in 2018? all the caravans, they were coming. they were coming.

they were going to -- we were all going to have skin falling off of us. well, what happened? democrats won in 2018. we heard the same thing in 2020. also, in 2022, trans athletes were coming to your neighborhood. they were going to have sex with whoever you didn't want them to have sex with. i mean, republicans, some republicans sent out 20 mailers on trans athletes. red wave now. again, sound and fury signifying nothing. you look at the two issues now that are the social issues that matter the most to people. abortion and guns. both of those have nothing to do with ideology. we're beyond the ideology wars. we now have fathers looking at

daughters. we have mothers looking at daughters. we have family members looking at their moms, going, is she going to get the help she needs from her doctor, or is she going to bleed out outside the hospital room? the same thing with guns. i know really conservative people, really conservative, who, like, openly wept when they had to send their children to school on the first day. it came a couple of weeks after a shooting. what in the hell? i mean, like, those are social issues that come through. like, you talk about trans athletes, let's say it. 85% of americans don't think that a man post puberty should compete against women in sports. if you want to have that debate,

have that debate. if you don't like how i said it, you and the other 5%, you guys go in a corner somewhere and debate it. but right here, where 85% of americans live, republicans can try to scare people over trans issues or this issue. americans are like, come on. the end of the day, mika, people vote their interests. at the end of the day, when the curtains close, they're going to ask themselves that question. are you better off today than you were four years ago? >> yeah. joe biden has the ad out that i think is striking, and i think this is a theme they need to build upon. this should be the first of many, maybe it is, but they're using the time-tested political question which was originally posed by former president ronald reagan during a 1980 presidential debate. are you better off now than you were four years ago?

here's the ad released yesterday. >> then i see the disinfectant, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or -- >> on a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your response to this crisis? >> i'd rate it a 10. we've done a great job. >> what do you say to americans who are scared? >> you're a terrible reporter. that's what i say. >> yeah, i don't take responsibility at all. we're doing really, really well. >> 1,000 americans are dying a day. >> they are dying, that's true. and it is what it is. >> yeah, joe, the only thing that ad is missing is donald trump telling bob woodward that he could have told the american people about this months and months before the pandemic began. >> but he didn't want to. >> no, didn't want to. >> he also says -- sam, he also

spent a lot of time running around four years ago, talking about how it's only two people coming in from china. it was one person here, one person there. >> right. >> also said president xi did a remarkable job, was transparent. >> do you really want to go back? >> on behalf of the american people, donald trump four years ago was thanking president xi for doing such a great job on covid. >> yeah, it's kind of remarkable how much this election will hinge on, whether or not trump gets blamed for the last year of his presidency, right? in his retelling, his presidency ended in february of 2020, right? everything after that he doesn't want to talk about. he doesn't say it's his fault. covid never happened in his retelling. but, obviously, now we're in that place where we can look back to the specific date and say, actually, it was this day

you promised the virus was under control with 14 cases in america. this day, you suggested bleach into the lungs may be, you know, a useful medication to combat covid. you know, we're going to have this over and over and over again because the last ten months or nine months of his presidency, before the election, were horrifying for america, objectively. mass death, stock market implosion, incredible amount of joblessness, and it won't be the deciding issue, but it'll be one of the deciding issues. how much voters both recall that year and what it was like and how much they blame trump for that year. trump is going to have to do a lot to convince them, hey, this wasn't my fault. i don't think that's easy. >> he can't because democrats don't think he did enough. of course, he had just -- >> he didn't do enough. >> -- insane press conferences. republicans think he did too much. >> right. >> lots of luck with that. that was ron desantis who just

kept hammering him for doing too much, for ordering florida shut down, ordering other states shut down. good luck with that. donny, we've given you an awful lot here to chew on, and i'm serious, i want to bring up one issue that alex brought to my attention. that is an issue that would normally hurt democrats, a social issue that would normally hurt democrats. it is, of course, on the front page of the newspaper of record for "morning joe." "the new york post." >> yeah. >> "onslaught." listen, any other election cycle, it is not dispositive because it wasn't in '18, wasn't in '20, wasn't in '22. this would hurt democrats. but if i'm a democrat running for office, and this is what i'd do. i'd pick up a paper, pick up something. if i were a democrat running for office, i would do this. i would be carrying this around all day. look at what the republicans are doing to you. look what donald trump is doing.

donald trump said, donald trump said -- by the way, this is for you at home, so come to the at-home camera, t.j. thank you. god bless you. so good at this. to think you just started last week. i'm joking, t.j. so, t.j., can i get a t.j. cam? >> not yet, not this second. >> wow. >> he's not feeling pretty. >> he's in his underwear at home. i was afraid i was picking on a director that mattered. no, t.j. is there. t.j. has been with us for 20 years, by the way. he is family. >> can't get rid of him. >> i would carry this around. see this "onslaught" headline? the only thing "the post" didn't tell you is, donald trump said, blame me for this. donald trump said, kill the

bill. blame me for everything that happens after this point. donald trump said, blame me. yes, donald, we are blaming you. we're blaming mini me mike johnson for following your orders. we're blaming republicans who begged for a tough border bill, but like "the wall street journal" editorial page said, couldn't take yes for an answer. so, yes, there is an onslaught in the southern border still, and it is all donald trump's fault. you know who says that? donald trump. donald trump says blame him for this. so we will. >> if there were a wall up there, right, too, it would all be a non-issue. >> well, of course. >> so he didn't build the wall. >> he didn't build the wall.

>> couldn't get it done. >> didn't build the wall either. >> joe, i'm going to hold up the paper of record, also, and show you that i could not agree with you more. >> talk about all of this. >> yeah. >> colgate versus crest. biden needing to hold serve. like, getting his base out. that is so much easier to do in advertising or politics. >> i think immigration is the issue. you talk to people and what they're so upset about is when they hear something like they're taking $1 billion out of the new york city budget to take care of illegal immigrants, and you'll have less teachers and less police officers, that hits you in the gut. the answer is the democrats have to be offensive about that. tom suozzi ran a great campaign. >> by the way, suozzi basically did this, and he won. >> he was a democrat, and he was running against a very good candidate. he said, the democrats want to put this problem to bed. the democrats had the toughest immigration bill in a

generation, and donald trump told the republicans, don't vote for it. it's that simple. this is the issue. this is the issue that i believe is hitting people in the gut. in addition, obviously, to abortion. >> he said, blame me. he said, blame me for killing the immigration bill. blame me for everything that happened. just like on abortion, he said that he was the one that terminated roe v. wade. >> yup. >> repeatedly. >> those are the two benchmarks, abortion and immigration. i think those are the two guttural issues, and you have to go offensive and say, guess what? donald trump is to blame for a woman's lack of a right to choose, potentially a national abortion ban. at the same time, once again, republicans are the ones to blame on immigration. it is not joe biden's fault. it is donald trump's fault. >> who said that? donald trump. >> exactly. >> he said, blame me. >> that's it. >> "wall street journal" editorial page, it's not like

"the wall street journal" editorial page didn't warn them, jen. >> yeah. >> "the wall street journal" editorial page was begging them, pass this bill. again, we have to remember whose bill this was. this wasn't aoc's bill. this was james freaking lankford. >> and katie britt. she was part of the effort, too. >> katie britt. >> yeah, yeah. so it's actually breaking through in polling, too. you know, it's so hard. i mean, it is so hard for biden to break through in general, right? that's why the money is important. the ads is how you bring the people back home. it's also -- the other thing that's hard to do is get in direct conflict with trump and having that kind of contrast. by going to the border, biden was able to do that. biden went to talk about the border security bill. trump follows him. it broke through. 63% of americans in a poll showed they think to blame the republicans for the defeat of that bill. >> that's huge.

>> right? and i think when people talk about immigration as the biggest issue, it's causing chaos. in a lot of people's lives and a lot of states, as you described. that is the fundamental argument against republicans writ large. they can't govern. it is dysfunction. they put their extremist maga agenda on top of everything, and that just makes the whole argument against trump. you've now taken immigration, flipped it as a vulnerability for democrats, flipped it on its head and made it part of the fundamental argument against the maga extremists. >> you know the thing about this campaign, mika? i don't know if you know this or not. i don't like to say it. >> were you in congress? >> i was. could you ring the bell? >> knows you so well. [ laughter ] >> the breakthrough in my campaign, because nobody knew who i was, but the breakthrough was in the primary, somebody ran an ad, full page ad, and there

were four quotes of my opponent. four quotes. nothing else. my opponent's words which did not play well. none played well for the electorate, and it made a huge difference. there is nothing more powerful than using other people's words against them. when you in a political campaign, and then you have donald trump saying, "blame me for the border," when you have donald trump saying, "i terminated roe v. wade," when you have republicans going to the house floor screaming, "we have done nothing." and i think mtg is now saying this republican house is a failure. >> yeah. >> they're saying it. they're giving democrats the words they need. this is the worst, most ineffective, do nothing congress in a generation, just by the

numbers. so use it. use their words against them. >> well, i think the four years ago question is amazing. i mean, you could, first of all, the problem for the democrats is that there are so many to use. there are so many examples. it is, again, the firehose of falsehoods. in this case, the firehose of examples from the trump presidency. are you better than you were? cut to january 6th. you can cut to a scroll that would go on for four minutes. i mean, this is the election of all contrasts for the american voters. we'll talk more about this ahead, but we have much more news to get to. still ahead on "morning joe," what we're learning about a possible israel-hamas cease-fire resolution that the u.n. is set to vote on this morning. plus, president biden has a new nickname for donald trump amid his fundraising troubles. we'll tell you what that is. also ahead, the manhattan

district attorney has a pointed response to trump's delay tactics in the new york hush money case. and democratic senator elizabeth warren is our guest this morning. we have a lot to discuss with her, including the anniversary of the affordable care act. that's another one. and the fight over abortion health care. that's another one. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough.

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antony blinken is meeting with israeli leaders. it comes as the united nations security council is set to meet on a cease-fire resolution introduced by the united states. it calls for an immediate and sustained cease-fire in the war in gaza, saying it is imperative to protect civilians and ensure more aid can be delivered to the enclave. there is no direct call for the release of the remaining hostages, but the resolution says it supports diplomatic efforts to secure a deal. this is the strongest the white house has supported so far. it is a shift from last month when the u.s. vetoed a similar resolution over concerns voting for the measure could disrupt hostage negotiations. but in recent weeks, the biden administration has been more outspoken in its push for a cease-fire, warning civilians in gaza are on the brink of famine.

meanwhile, house speaker mike johnson says he plans to invite israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu to speak to congress. the last time netanyahu addressed a joint session was in 2015. back then, both chambers were controlled by republicans. netanyahu used his time to criticize the obama administration for negotiating a nuclear deal with iran. things are really different right now, joe. and the division between republicans and democrats once again is sort of showing itself in this issue with the israeli prime minister. >> well, i mean, i wish we had a fainting couch. i would use it. >> i know. >> benjamin netanyahu came to the united states, went into the people's house, the heart of american democracy, and attacked a democratic president? why, this is a democracy. i thought fellow democracies

weren't supposed to interfere. i mean, such garbage. it is such garbage. sam stein, the biden administration has been moving toward where blinken says we're going now with a u.n. cease-fire. talk about that process, how this has been a long time coming and what the white house expects out of it. >> the word long-time coming is accurate here. the frustration level with the netanyahu government has been just growing and growing over weeks and months. you know, frankly, it is remarkable, to a degree, that the administration has stayed as supportive as it's been, considering the backlash that the president has endured. internally, you know, they've been warning against a rafah invasion. they pushed it off. netanyahu hasn't ruled it out. they want to get more aid into gaza. netanyahu has not helped with that. he's questioned the decision to

build a pier for the delivery of the aid. they've also basically plotted that netanyahu won't hold on to political power once this war ends. as we all know, netanyahu is not going to go quietly, and he is not -- he has no plans to end the war anytime soon. and so, you know, we're at a place now where the administration is willing to work a little more through the u.n. obviously, they're not willing to endorse what chuck schumer said. i thought what the most instructive comment of the last month, when biden was asked about the chuck schumer speech, where schumer said, we need a new government in israel, biden didn't say anything other than that was a good speech. he didn't endorse it, but he said, that's a pretty good speech. that gives you a great insight into where the president's head is at and the frustration level inside the administration. >> the idiots who attacked chuck schumer for being insufficiently jewish, insufficiently zionist. >> i can't. >> donald trump calling him a bad jew, in effect. other people saying he was not a

friend of israel, that he turned on israel. how insulting. i mean, i worked with chuck schumer for years. we were, yes, in the house together. i never heard anybody more pro-israel, pro-zionist than chuck schumer. when chuck schumer is giving that speech, that tells you that he's very worried, as am i, about israel's standing. not in luxembourg or across the globe. i'm wondering about america's standing here. because i have children, 87 children, a spade of children -- >> so many children. >> i have four. but it does seem sometimes, mika, like -- >> i have three. >> there's a lot of children. anyway, there is just an

extraordinary change of attitudes among americans under 40, extraordinary. it is anti-israel. no, it's not just younger americans on college campuses. it's just a lot of americans under 40. and my children have been very, very concerned for their jewish friends. they've been very, very concerned at how intense it has become. so i'm concerned about that. i'm also very concerned about civilians in gaza. this idea that you want the united states and the world community to do something to stop an oncoming famine somehow makes you hate israel?

there are two words i'd like to say that i can't say on the air. nobody has been more -- and we had jonathan greenblatt come up. he'll tell you. jonathan may disagree with me on this issue, we'll see, but one thing he won't disagree with me on is that i've been fighting against anti-semitism my entire adult life and my entire career in congress and on television. i've been really outspoken about it. elise, i'm really concerned. i'm concerned about this. i'm concerned about benjamin netanyahu. i'm concerned about the fact that he knew where hamas was getting its money in 2018. he refused to cut it off. i'm concerned that he sent his government to doha three weeks before the attacks and said, give hamas more money. i'm concerned that he continued to prop hamas up. i'm concerned that benjamin netanyahu's government had hamas' terrorist plans a year

before the terrorist attacks, and they did nothing. i'm concerned that benjamin netanyahu, after the attacks, did nothing for six, seven, eight, ten hours. they were ill prepared. i've never seen anything like it. it shattered my belief and everything i ever thought about israel's ability to defend itself. by the way, it's not that we've been wrong all these years, it is that benjamin netanyahu was in charge and he led israel to that point. and i'm very concerned that what he continues to do, whatever he can do to stay in power. the second he's out of power, he's got three indictments. he might go to jail. so it is a very simple equation. as long as the war continues, benjamin netanyahu doesn't have to worry about going to jail. the second the war ends, benjamin netanyahu has to worry about going to jail. are we really going to tie

israel's future up to this man and say, if those of us who love israel, those of us who were taught in sunday school when we were 5 years old that, that jews are god's chosen people and israel is where they need to be to be protected, because 6 million were slaughtered in the holocaust. are we not allowed to question benjamin netanyahu's motives? because if not, that's pretty sick. and it's not in israel's best interest. >> well, you put it well when you said it is not anti-semitism to not want to see mass starvation in gaza. the u.n. is saying 65% of gazans are at risk of starving. we see the images of children. we see the children who are being amputated without anesthesia. women having c-sections without

anesthesia. why is that material not getting through? the tunnels had to be destroyed. the international community agreed, no sympathy for hamas. get hamas out. do it. they do not like now, watching the indiscriminate raiing of civilian territory and civilians who have nowhere to flee. led the aid come in. let the civilians have a safe haven. >> eddie. >> i keep asking myself, are we going to risk our democracy for this man? because the young folk aren't going to turn out. remember, we said we have to hold serve. are we going to risk our democracy for netanyahu? then there is the moral question, joe, the moral question, you know? evil does not justify evil. an act of evil does not justify evil, period. i say that coming out of my reading of micah 6:8, act

justly. >> old testament guy, preach it. >> love mercy. walk humbly with god. it seems to me that orientation, and within the jewish tradition -- i'm not trying to speak for the jewish tradition at all -- within the tradition, that argument is being had. i don't want to risk our democracy for netanyahu. i definitely don't want to be complicit with evil. even as i acknowledge the evil of october 7th. >> if we love israel, we can criticize israel like we criticize the united states. i love the united states. i'm telling you, david ignatius, richard haass, and others said the same thing after october 7th. they said what i said. which is, hamas has to be destroyed. >> yup. >> hamas can never rule gaza again. hamas will never rule gaza again. i knew the second it happened and i saw it, well, that's the end of hamas. there's going to be a hell of a lot of suffering between now and then, but hamas is finished.

they'll not govern gaza ever again, donny. that is the case. but i also heard the warnings, don't repeat the mistakes the united states made after 9/11. don't have your iraq. be precise. know what you're doing. go after hamas leaders. kill them. but understand this, and we said this from day one, that part of hamas' plan was to kill jews so netanyahu would kill ten times as many palestinians. what did we say from day one? you can check the tape. we said, a dead jew is a win for hamas. a dead palestinian, oh, that's a much bigger win for hamas. that is exactly the game they were playing. >> yeah. i'm going to say a few things.

>> by the way, not the game, the deadly, deadly strategy. >> it's challenging being a jew right now because there are two things that can exist at the same time. >> right. >> you can say, on the one hand, netanyahu has to go. netanyahu had to go before october 7th. he basically tried to make the judicial system his in-house legal system. that doesn't mean you don't believe israel has every right to defend itself. israel needs to finish hamas off. you can't go to rafah but you have to finish hamas off. it is a rubik's cube. but israel has to defend itself. you can be a zionist. you can obviously understand everything and be passionate about israel and israel's need to defend itself, israel's need to exist, but say their leader is not the right leader for the future. those two things can exist at the same time. the one thing i do want to add that just kind of gnaws at me a little bit, because everything is on israel.

we still don't talk about hamas and that hamas was offered a cease-fire two times. hamas is responsible for killing their own people. let's not forget the original villain in this disgusting passion play. let's not forget that. but you can be a hawk. you can believe that israel needs to do everything it needs to do to rid itself of hamas but say benjamin netanyahu is not the right guy for the job going forward. period. >> yeah. again, we've said it and will continue to say it, hamas has to be destroyed. >> period. >> they just do. it's like when the -- >> end of story. >> -- towers went down. the second the tower fell, i said, somewhere, osama bin laden understands he just achieved catastrophic success. he is going to die. we will hunt him down, as long as it takes, and we will kill him. we did. it's the same thing with hamas

leaders. i mean, do you have to kill 10,000 more palestinians for that to happen? no. may not happen in the next couple of weeks, but it will happen. hamas will be finished. buried, done for. they've sealed their fate on october 7th. mika, it is so offensive for donald trump to say, you can't be a good jew and vote for democrats. >> oh, my gosh. >> just like it is offensive for people to say, you can't be a zionist and a supporter of israel and a supporter of jews and a fighter and defender of jews and their right to exist where they want to exist. unless you support benjamin netanyahu. i just -- those words are so gross and offensive. >> it's one of many, and that's the point that we were maing earlier. there's so much. with all that said, and before we get to our next guest, here's a reminder of what former

president trump said on monday about american jews. >> why do the democrats hate bibi netanyahu? >> i actually think they hate israel. >> yes. >> i don't think they hate him. i think they hate israel. when you see those palestinian marches, even i -- i'm amazed at how many people are in those marches. and guys like schumer see that, and to him, it's votes. i think it is votes more than anything else. because he was always pro-israel. he is anti-israel now. any jewish person that votes for democrats hates their religion, they hate everything about israel, and they should be ashamed of themselves. >> let's bring in now the ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt. also, matthew brzezinski, who has a guest essay for msnbc, "the american-jewish community must see through netanyahu's cynicism." jonathan, we have so much to

talk to you about. i'm so glad you are here. i'd like you to do two things here. one, respond to what donald trump said about how jews who vote for democrats are bad jews and hate their religion. two, i need you to counsel donny. help donny through. i'm serious. donny, like a lot of american-jews, are really twisted up right now. obviously, we talked about the pain and the heartache and just the fear after october 7th. right now, there are a lot of jewish-americans grappling with other feelings, mixed feelings about netanyahu, what they're seeing on the front pages of the newspaper, how to sort through it all. what are your thoughts? >> well, there's a lot there. let me try to break it down. first, with respect to what president trump said, obviously,

it is patently false and prejudicial. it is bigotry to say that jews hate israel if they vote for the democratic party. i don't need president trump or any politician to lecture me on how i am supposed to vote. israel has been a bipartisan concern for decades and decades and decades. there's been consensus on supporting the jewish state because it is a democracy, because it is our best ally in the middle east, pause it is committed to the values america is committed to. for that reason, again, democrats and republicans have been good on israel. look, the person who dines with nick fuentes, it is calling the kettle black. give me a break. really? i read matthew's essay about his daughter, and it is painful for me. it is hard to see the spike of

anti-semitic attitudes in the united states. we did a survey, joe, and we found a decade ago, 9% of americans had intense anti-semitic attitudes. today, ten years later, it is almost 25%. and the numbers among young people are even more intense. typically, there is an archie bunker effect. usually, older people are more prejudice, but not when it comes to anti-semitism. donny, you were trying to bring it back, and i appreciate that. and elise was talking about the people being operated on without anesthesia and the pain and the suffering. let us not forget the 130 hostages being held in tunnels below gaza. the disabled and the elderly, men and women, innocent people who were raped, tortured, torn from their homes while their loved ones were murdered alongside of them. and i say this because what

makes this different than after 9/11 and afghanistan, what makes this than afte, you know, the situation in syria, is there are innocent people being held in a tunnel system built by hamas over two decades that apparently rivals the paris metra. again, i want this war to end. every innocent killed is a disaster. every civilian who dies, it's a tragedy. but if hamas returned the hostages today, this would end like that. so when we talk about a cease-fire, we talk about a cessation of violence, when we talk about the young people, like eddie did, let's keep in mind why this started. i'm not a military strategist. i don't know how to, quote, end hamas, though i agree with the sentiment. but i do know these hostages need to come home now. they have nothing to do with a global conflict, and hamas' homicidal agenda, if you want to end that, start by bringing the hostages home.

period. >> matthew, in your new piece, you write in part this, quote, "american jews have long identified with the underdog. they rally to the defense of black americans during the civil rights movement, often at great personal perperil, and more recently served as supporters of the black lives matter movement. now, israel's long-term prospects could depend on american jews taking up the cause of a two-state solution. difficult as that may be in the aftermath of hamas' terrorism. the stakes are incredibly high. if israel continues to follow netanyahu's disastrous path, israel risks becoming a diplomatically isolated, pariah state." i have to say, matthew, on a more personal level, for you, this is extraordinarily personal for you. as a daughter on a college campus who is being shouted at for wearing your star of david.

>> yes. well, i mean, so my children are jewish under rabbitical law, but they decided they want to identify as jews culturally. i wholeheartedly supported that decision. unfortunately, in the past few months, it's a decision that has led them to be harassed and one that they are showing tinges of regret for. that alarmed me, so i decided to speak out. i think that they're representative of, you know, as you were saying earlier, the younger generation in this country that is heartbroken by what is going on over there. netanyahu has reputationally brought israel to the brink. >> sam stein, do you have a question for jonathan greenblatt? >> yeah. i mean, jonathan, i hear you and i understand exactly where you're coming from. i think many jews feel like

trump's attack on dual loyalty is prejudicial. i also understand where you're coming from on how you want to see this war ended. i wonder, though, when you look at the netanyahu government, does part of you fear at all what he is doing to jews not in israel? that his actions have isolated israel but also sparked a wave of anti-semitism. i don't mean that to blame jews for a spike of anti-semitism, but i think the two are interrelated. i'm curious if you have thought about that and if you feel angst at how this israeli government has prosecuted this war. >> look i feel angst all the time, i think. that's part of the jewish condition, sam. >> fair enough. >> but what i will tell you is that there's no question, bibi netanyahu is certainly not my favorite politician, right? i have criticized him and

criticized the policies of his government. but the fact of the matter, and you just said something that i want to draw on, i don't like blaming the victim. in the year 2022, when naptali bennet was the prime minister, when they had a muslim in the most diverse leadership in israel's history, we had the highest anti-semitic threats we've ever tracked. a multi-cultural, multi-political coalition, yet, anti-semitism was still raging here in the united states. now, i'm sure the numbers are going to be far worse for this year. spasms of violence in the middle east often trigger anti-jewish action here. did anyone think it was okay when asian-american people were being assaulted, harassed, and victimized because what beijing was doing around covid?

would anyone think it was okay, sam, if worshippers at russian orthodox churches were harassed by mass activists because they're upset about ukraine? i mean, that idea is preposterous. would anyone think it was okay to vandalize panda express because you're upset about the uighur muslims? of course that'd be absurd. but, somehow, it is open season on jews. the last two weeks, a jewish musician wasn't allowed to do his concert in chicago because the chicago pd didn't have enough protection. brett gelman, actor and author, his book signings have been canceled because of protests on gaza. when american jews are blamed for what is happening in the middle east, that should worry all of us. we know as americans, we are a multi-ethnic, multi-racial democracy. it is not okay to hold anyone collectively responsible for things you don't like around the world. yet, when it comes to jews,

we're told, hide your star of david. when it comes to jews, we're told, you need more protection at your synagogue. when it comes to jews, we're told, it's your fault and you need to protect yourselves. i mean, this is nuts. i'll make one last point. after the murder of jamal khashoggi by the saudi government, the protector of the holy places, the embodiment of islam, would anyone have said it's okay to again stage demonstrations in front of mosques or islamic centers to ban rami from doing a show? that's what is happening to jews, and it is not okay. that should alarm all of us. this isn't isn't anti-semitic sam, it is anti-american. when your colleagues and neighbors and friends and family members are being told, hide your identity, squelch your religion, because it is open season on you. but that's what's happening on

the college campuses right now. that's happening in public places right now. i'm not disputing the tragedy in gaza, but i am saying, protect your jewish family members and friends with everything you've got. >> right. >> this is the moment when it counts. >> elise. >> matthew, elise jordan here. i have now what's kind of an impossible question to ask, but i have to ask you as your uncle was dr. brzezinski. what would he do right now if he were looking for a diplomatic solution, looking to push this situation in a more realistic direction, as he was such a practitioner of the school of realism? >> well, he actually long advocated that israel's long-term community was intricately linked with palestinian well-being. he felt that, you know, the fate of the palestinians was often

put aside in the name of regional security and that this was short-sighted and could lead to situations such as the one we find ourselves in now. you know, i think that he would advocate for an immediate cease-fire. i think he would advocate for massive aid and food to flood into gaza because, you know, if people around the world start seeing photographs similar to the one "the new york times" published earlier in the week of starving children, oh, boy, that's going to be -- that's going to make jonathan's job really hard. it is going to be disastrous. and i think he would advocate for, you know, countries from all over the world to come in and launch a reconstruction program. you know, finally put an end to -- you know, this has been going on for half a century.

you know, whether it is a two-state solution, some hybrid model, but, you know, i think that this has to end. it is hurting everyone. most of all, you know, it is hurting israel. i think that if this resolved, support for israel would flood back. there is a historical be blueprint for that in america. after 9/11, he went into iraq. even our staunchest allies were, you know, fled, and our international standing plummeted. obama was elected. took us out of iraq. all those allies, the world breathed a collective sigh of relief. all those allies came flooding back. i am sure that support for israel, you know, would absolutely go back to what it wasn't was, once this issue is solved. >> matthew brzezinski, thank you so much.

read his guest essay. and jonathan greenblatt, thank you, as well. greatly appreciate it. by the way, matthew has a piece that's coming out on msnbc.com. mika, we hear about how bad things are going in ukraine. but the numbers he has, the numbers he's reporting on, of course, what's happening on the ground is very difficult, but matthew's talking about and following the number of russian planes that are being shot down by the week, basically how much the ukrainians are dominating now the air, what they're doing, is seen dominating the sea, doing things that are really putting russians back on their heels. it's pretty extraordinary. >> look forward to that for sure.

a few minutes after the top of the hour. 7:00 a.m. eastern. donald trump has until monday, just a matter of hours really, just a few days to come up with $464 million needed to avoid paying the judgment in the civil fraud case while he appeals. it appears new york attorney general letitia james is targeting two of his properties in westchester county, just north of new york city. if he cannot pay. she filed there more than two weeks ago. she could seize trump's golf club in westchester valued at nearly $16 million. prior cliff. silver springs estate is worth $56 million. the estate was featured heavily in the civil trial with the judge ruling the property had been wildly overvalued for

years. trump tried to claim at times it was worth as much as $291 million. often by including the value of mansions that did not exist. ahead of monday's deadline, the judge yesterday ordered the trump organization to inform the court-appointed monitor of any efforts to secure a bond. the language in the order suggests the judge wants to make sure the company makes no misrepresentations to bond companies. a new deal between donald trump and the republican national committee is making it more likely that donor money will be spent on the former president's legal bills. according to a form obtained by nbc news, when someone donates to the rnc going forward, that money will be dispersed to a group helping trump pay his legal fees before the national

party itself. this is being done through a joint fundraising agreement which dictates rnc donations be filtered out to the trump campaign first, then a leadership pac covering his legal fees, and then the rnc last. in the past, the rnc has never funneled donations directly to a candidate's pac. the change comes just weeks after trump had his own daughter-in-law, lara, installed as the organization's new co-chair. the biden campaign has a new nickname for former president donald trump, broke don. the campaign put out a release, hitting trump for his poor fundraising numbers and lack of campaign events. it is titled, "not a winning campaign. broke don hides in basement." president biden joked about the matter, saying, quote, just the other day, a defeating looking man came up to me and said, mr. president, i have crushing debt

and i'm completely wiped out. i had to say, i'm sorry, donald. i can't help you. we'll put that right there. it is interesting, joe, just last night, i got, like, one of those video ads that pop up before you watch a video. i was, like, trump jr.'s face saying, give us $5, chip in. wow, you guys are scraping. >> yeah, when they have to email you. >> no, it was like a -- >> the list. >> it was jarring, like very close up. >> she gave, of course. >> yeah. >> no. >> who do we have. >> pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson joins us on this friday morning. former chairman of the republican national committee who is not doing ads for $5, co-host of msnbc's "the weekend," michael steele. and founder and managing partner

at skybridge capital, anthony scaramucci is with us this morning. eddie glaude jr., elise jordan, and jen palmieri still with us, as well. >> i'm not good at math, but you were sitting next to a person who also was white house communication director here. hold on a second. i'm going to draw a line right here. how long were you white house communication director? >> from 2012 to '15. >> that's pretty good. >> i can do the calculation. i can do it. >> how long were you? >> that's about 71 scaramuccis. >> one palmieri. >> kevin mccarthy lasted 24.5 scaramuccis as speaker. liz trust, of course, was 4.1. you did pretty well. >> it's all right. >> liz truss lasted longer than you did?

>> yes. she beat me, which was a carton of milk. she didn't last the cabbage. life in politics. >> donny deutsch says time and again, and i think this will probably happen, that he thinks the most powerful ad against donald trump would be general mattis, general kelly, general milley, and these generals that worked for donald trump saying, you can't trust this guy. you worked for donald trump and known him a long time, maybe as long or longer than i've known him. it is shocking to me that you have a guy who is competitive and, yet, really, none of his secretary of defenses that he had the first three years, i don't think any of his secretary of states, certainly not his intel people, certainly not his u.n. ambassador. >> vice president. >> this week, not his vice

president. can you explain why that is? also, why you personally -- we haven't talked about this but i'm sure you do because you've been around him -- why you personally believe donald trump is such a danger to the republic if re-elected. >> well, i mean, there's a lot to unpack there. let me talk about my colleagues and friends. we're sort of in this trump recovery unit together. it's include secretary esper, general milley, both speaking at my conference this coming may. it goes down to temperament, lack of curiosity, and the meanness and the way he will hurt anybody and anything in his way. one of the big fights i had with him in the white house was about the institution of the presidency. you know, we're there to serve the people. it's the only job in the country, as every one of us know

where all the eligible voters get to vote on it. therefore, you're president for everybody. mr. trump doesn't see it that way. mr. trump sees it as a self-grandstanding position. you can make a little money on the side. that's fine, as well. all the policies that you're discussing today, they're seen through that prism. they're not seen through peace, preservation of the democracy, prosperity for all americans, not just the friends of his that he's cutting taxes for. >> right. so how does it shall. >> it is all of those reasons. >> how does that line up? can you explain why he admires president xi so much, why he admires president putin so much, why he admires kim jong-un so much? why we found out over the past week or two he admired hitler so much? why we found out from ivana that he kept hitler's speeches by his

bedside. what is his obsession with dictators, with tyrants, with strongmen, people like orban even? >> well, it has to do with the addlation. when you're in countries like that, they get prescribed adolation. you don't get the dissension you get in a dirty democracy, in his mind. there is an access of autocracy. he signals to the people every day, i would like to be the vladimir putin of north america. you've got eurasia. xi has asia. orban has a part of eastern europe. that's me. i'm in your family. i'm in your tribe. he signals that to those people, and he signalled that to his staff. this is the reason 40 plus cabinet members and sub-cabinet members refused to endorse him. he doesn't read intelligence

briefings. he says ridiculous things in situation rooms. you won't get the generals to comment specifically about some of the things he said because it is outrageous. they don't want to be affiliated by what he said. that's the reason, joe. >> ex-trump officials declining to endorse his 2024 run. if you are in the car right now listening, pence, former vice president. barr, former attorney general. bolton, former national security adviser. esper, former defense secretary, mattis. cassidy hutchinson, former aide. general kelly, former chief of staff, his longest. former press secretary, stephanie grisham. general mark milley, former chairman of the joint chiefs. scaramucci. alyssa farah griffin, strategic comms director. we can go on and on and on and on. you know, dan coats' name is not on there. i know he would never do it. nikki haley, go down the list.

michael steele, you couple that with the fact that this guy really worships dictators. couple that with january 6th. you couple that with the fact he stole nuclear secrets. then his i.t. guy said he ordered him to destroy them. when he decided not to, he wanted to flood the room. to destroy the documents. we could go on and on. you had a federal judge in new york state that said donald trump rapede jen carroll. again, i could go down the list for the next three hours. one thing after another which would have disqualified any other candidate running for president in american history.

why is he tied with joe biden right now? >> two things occurred pretty much at the same time. one was he has inoculated himself with a sycophantic tribe of maga followers who reinforce his messaging, who condone and push aside his behavior, who have bought into the lie that he can be a dictator for 24 hours and everything will be all right after that. he has this reinforcement energy that is an intention of himself. >> michael, why don't our friends and neighbor s neighbori grew up with, people i went to church with. in congress, i could hardly go back to church without hearing about bill clinton every second

i was there. the sins of bill clinton. >> because -- >> you heard the same thing. >> yeah. >> now, these same people are in the front lines. >> yeah. >> supporting this would-be dictator. it's crazy. >> because bill clinton never made them feel how donald trump makes them feel. donald trump has a connection to people in a way that sort of elicits a permission structure, a sort of brand, an idea, a sentiment that they attach to. >> wait, wait, who? where are they raised? >> doesn't matter. >> they may have gone to the church i went to, but they weren't raised by my parents. >> yeah. >> where were these people raised, that they would like a guy that treats people this way?

a guy that -- >> well -- >> -- reveres hitler, xi, putin. i can go down the list. what, they like this guy? he makes them feel good? >> yes! yes, joe. >> who? who feels good doing that? >> i can't wrap any head around it, but they do. you talk to them. you've been in the room with them. you can hear it in their voices a lot of times. you know how these folk -- it's just the thing that connects to them. how do you explain, on the heels of the "access hollywood" tape when donald trump denigrates women, that 52% of white suburban women vote for him in the following election? >> more than denigrate women. >> how do you explain from focus groups that i saw back in 2016, and this is when i knew donald trump had something that no other politician had, when i saw this focus group and this one

white mother, female from new hampshire, mother of two, divorced, was asked, why was she supporting donald trump? you know what her answer was? because donald trump is just like me. so why does she feel that? why would she say that? for me, that's been the crux of the problem with everybody else. they've never taken time to understand why a white suburban mother of two watching the tape of a man saying that he loves grabbing women by their private parts would say he's just like me. >> how long -- >> so you have -- >> how long am i supposed to -- >> -- contextualize -- >> -- sit in a corner and try to figure it out? i've been trying for eight years and still can't figure it out. >> turning point. >> therein lies the strength of donald trump. he's able to do something that you can't. he's figured it out. and so that's the --

>> i'm confused, michael. >> it's where we are. >> he's figured it out? doing something i can't? >> he's unlocked the code. i mean -- >> the code to worship hitler? >> eddie glaude. >> rape women. >> they weren't worshipping hitler. >> no, trump is. >> it is a thing that is just the connection that they have. they look past that. that is not a bar. it's a bar to you. it's not a bar to them. they contextualize it differently. you laugh at it. >> let me guarantee you -- >> and -- >> let me guarantee you, michael. let me guarantee you, that was a bar to every american before 2015. >> well, it ain't -- >> you're from mississippi. i'm from mississippi, alabama, georgia, florida. it ain't like i grew up in the young marxist league in

greenwich village. i'm from -- i was born in the heart of dixie. i grew up in the heart of dixie. you know, it's like, still, all these years later, i can't figure it out. really, i don't want to drive to pennsylvania, middle of pennsylvania, to sit down and go, tell me, i want to understand because i don't understand. you see, i'm a conservative so i can go, bullshit on that. if liberal media people want to drive to the middle of pennsylvania and go, oh, tell me why you like a guy who loves kim jong-un. don't waste your time. don't waste your time. so you grew up where i grew up. you grew up where i grew up. you grew up -- are you mississippi, too? >> born in mississippi. >> yeah.

you were, too, right? >> no, no. >> not from the gold coast? >> i was on long island, outside of queens. >> that's close to ole miss. we got three mississippi, four mississippi people here. explain. >> he managed to bulldoze through all the usual conventions of what you can't say, what you can't do in your past, what you can't do in the present, and he managed to make their grievances his grievances. he is a victim, and then his voters are victim. they are being looked down by elites. >> no question. >> in all media quarters. it becomes so much against those who look down on them than what it is all about. >> eddie, tell me, how does it make you feel after hearing republicans your entire life saying, oh, people need to stop being victims. this is about personal responsibility. another thing i always heard during the clinton era. this is about personal responsibility. nobody take personal responsibility.

here, these same people have turned into the biggest snowflakes. the biggest wimps. they get triggered. donald trump is a victim. i'm a victim, so donald trump is a victim. flying around in his 757 or whatever he flies around in. i mean, they've embraced victimhood. >> yeah, it is ironic at the least. i mean, one of the things i've noticed over the course of my 55 years on the planet is the way in which the rhetoric of the civil rights movement has been inverted. it's a meanings, a rhetorical device to defend white people. something we don't say, which michael was trying to get at, is where donald trump cuts to the chase, right, is this country is yours. this country is yours. these people have taken it from you. they look down on you. they don't trust you. the government is putting its thumb on the scale for these black and brown people, these immigrants are coming to take

your job. they're not taking your jobs, but taking your life chances, right? these people are trying to replace you. at the heart of this, you know, frederick douglass july 5th, 1852, the famous july 5th address, right, in corinthian hall in rochester, new york, he has this wonderful line, joe. he says, "there is a horrible reptile coiled in the nation's bosom. i beg of you to tear it away." you know what? i believe that trump's attraction, joe, is that he makes white folk feel good. >> you know what, though? you worked for a guy named barack obama. >> i knew that was coming. >> well, no. it's history. so this is my question. i think he was a black man. i'm not good in history. i also think he may have been the only democrat to win a majority of the vote twice since

fdr. >> not the white vote, though. >> the vote. >> right. >> the same people that were calling racists in iowa because they voted for trump voted for obama. see, that's why -- like, what happened between 2016 and now. voters in ohio, they're racist? they voted for obama. >> right. i'm one of the liberal media elites. >> i hear what you're saying, and i'm trying to figure this out. >> i'm one of the liberal media elites who went to pennsylvania and said, please, tell me. >> oh, my god. >> i mean, obama/trump voters, they thought obama was from outside of the system, something different. something that would change things. they feel like that didn't happen, and they felt like trump would be that person that would change things.

you know, he did. he delivered on that. >> gene robinson, let's change the subject. another happy subject about donald trump. his money. you wrote a column about the money. i'll ask anthony about this in a minute. about the money, and the fact that it is just -- i always talk about jim and tammy faye bakker. this is rigged for ptl land. >> yeah. >> you know, you give $25 to the rnc, and it is funneled through donald trump's family. it's given to donald trump's lawyers. >> he is hurting for money, right? his campaign is getting way outraised by the biden campaign. the rnc is getting way outraised by the dnc. and on top of it, of course, he's got these judgments against him. he's got these legal fees that

are draining. he is hurting for money. the rnc deal, of course, pledged, we're not going to give any of our money. no rnc money to donald trump to help him pay his legal bills. now, they rig it so the money comes in, and he takes his cut before it becomes rnc money. technically, it's not their money yet. he takes his cut before they get it. it is a transparent workaround. the fact is, you know, at the moment, biden has, like, $155 million in the bank. trump campaign has $42 million or something like that. it's not a close fight right now. the biden campaign can use that

money to define the campaign, define donald trump. they've got this sort of open field this spring and summer where they can use this money advantage. it is going to take a while. i got that email that mika got, too, about, you know -- >> the algorithm is really off. >> saying, please, give me $5. give me $5. >> getting a lot of biden emails these days. >> next to you, gene, in our 28 box, is a guy that once ran the rnc. i'll get back to him in one second. first, anthony, i want to get to you on money. we showed biden at $72 million. trump at $33 million. $71 million and $33 million. you see, whether it is big money donors who were really excited to give to biden, the small

donors, donald trump is down from 2016. how significant is this? he's just -- all money is being poured into legal fees. are people figuring that out? is that why they don't give the rnc money? >> facebook ads are down. instagram and facebook ads are down. he's talking about the election being rigged because he is worried about losing. that'll be the ruse at the end of it. he is doing a small fundraiser in palm beach with some of his acolytes. that'll raise him some money. the average person, he is so bad for your business that the average, wealthy person that would typically give to the rnc or the presidential candidate doesn't want to be affiliated with him. this is really damaging him. what i hope the president does, president biden, though, is take some of the money he's raised and talk about his legislative

accomplishments. what we're missing here, and i saw it on the campaign, 71 campaign stops in 2016. donald trump was talking to the people i grew up with. people like my dad were once economically aspirational. i'm not blaming anymore, but the system, globalization, et cetera, they became economically desperational. he represents an avatar for their anger, but joe biden represents a policy solution. he has done amazing for these people in the last three years. i want the president to explain he's using a policy solution trump never provided. >> you're a perfect person to ask. help me out here. you know, sometimes, it's harder to sort through policy.

there's the book, "what's the matter with kansas?" >> thomas tran k. >> frank. >> why did they vote against their interests? when i ran, they weren't voting against their interinterests. i wanted small business tax cuts, entrepreneurial tax cuts, wanted the billionaires and everybody else to not get the breaks. i wanted it to be middle-class workers, et cetera. i had a lot of friends that i served with that were that way. donald trump wasn't. this is what i don't get. why are some of those people still with trump? trump's one big achievement is tax cuts for billionaires. i mean, that tax plan was so disproportionately aimed at the richest americans. you know, people during the pandemic making 2, $3 billion a day or something crazy like that. >> he hurt the working poor with

the salt deductions. he capped those. the working poor have less disposable income. again, i think what we're missing at the table, if you don't mind me saying this, is the anger. if you're in the lower-middle class and the system is not working for you, you reject the system. you reject the media establishment, the political establishment, the medical establishment. i don't want to take the vaccine. oh, wait a minute, here is an orange wrecking ball that is going to smash into those institutions and burn them down. i'm going to vote for that. i think the counternarrative has to be, we hear you. your grandparents voted for lyndon johnson, great grandparents voted for franklin roosevelt. you have to vote for joe biden because he is putting in policies. he is onshoring, giving grants to people building factoies in the united states. he is going to rebuild the infrastructure of america, something mr. trump never did. we joke about infrastructure week. we got an infrastructure bill passed in the biden administration. for me, the message to these

people is, help is here. you don't have to be as angry. we're going to fix the system. we're going to reconnect you back into the aspirational side of america that you want your family in. >> the system can work for you again. >> president biden is showing how the system can work for you. you don't have to be angry anymore. your children are going to do better than you. because there's many years where people thought, wait, my dad thought his kids would do better than him, but lower and middle-class people don't feel that. the president has to restate that american dream in his campaign narrative. this is something that president trump could never do and, frankly, he doesn't even have the curiosity to understand what we're talking about. >> yeah. you know, michael, in 2016, so these arguments were sailing to a lot of people in 2016. hillary clinton was running. there had been a bush or clinton

in the white house since 1980. through 2004. president obama in for eight years. there was another clinton that was going to go on for eight years. people said, the system, i'm against the system. da, da, da, da. but, again, after eight years of donald trump, you talk about all the establishments not trusting. well, things got worse under donald trump. the medical establishment, okay, you turned against the medical establishment. donald trump told you to shoot bleach into your veins, told you president xi was transparent, that he was helping americans. i wouldn't be asking these questions, and i wasn't in 2016. though i said he was a danger to america, i also said there are a lo of people fed up with the system. they're going to vote trump for the protest vote. eight years later, trump is still their protest vote, after bleach in the veins and

everything else? let me rephrase. you say yes, and we've been through that. what do you think joe biden and democrats need to do to get working class voters back? >> i think anthony put his finger on a big part of it. it's this idea of reframing the way the conversation is actually happening in front of them. in other words, looking at the economy. looking where the country is. republicans are setting themselves up by asking the question, are you better off today than you were four years ago? yeah, because on march 22nd, 21st of, you know, 2020, we were in the throes of covid. the administration -- >> there's a -- it's a bad time to ask that question, michael. i mean, for all americans, you

go back four years. i think march 2020, and i'm like, oh. like, no, that's some major trauma. >> exactly. the framing is there. the argument i've made over a year now is democrats have largely gotten in their own way by how they've gotten stuck on statistics instead of allowing, joe, do what we saw joe do, president biden do at the state of the union. actually engage directly with his opponents when they want to show their behind and push back on that. more importantly, engage with the voters to help them understand, i know this is where we were. i understood the pain of $4, $5 for a dozen eggs, $7, $10 for a

gallon of gas. i did everything in my power to reverse that. inflation is not 9% today, it is 3.1%. you're not paying $7 for gas. the national average is about 3 bucks. make the case and help them understand it. don't allow donald trump to get away with his b.s. argument that you are worse off today. that, somehow, you are still a victim after your daddy went back to work. after your business reopened. after you were able to afford, you know, your bills again. you weren't as stressed. that's a big part of it. you're starting to see them do that. i think, to anthony's point, the more they're able to do that, to put this in the proper context, because trump is already setting up the failed narrative, right? he's already telling us, you know, the wheels are coming off. the election is rigged. you're still a victim. there's a lot out there that can

be reinforcement to prove otherwise. put the cabinet out there. put surrogates out there. most importantly, put the president out there. going back to how we started the conversation, he needs to be the one to make people feel good about where they are now. >> the great michael steele, we'll be watching "the weekend" saturdays and sundays starting at 8:00 a.m. >> i love it. >> mika and i love watching it. >> we're up early. >> take care. let's get to the other top story. as we head into the weekend. >> did we do a story? we've just been talking for an hour and a half. have we covered a story yet? >> i don't think so. honestly, i don't -- >> i went back to the fundamental question of, why trump? what year is this? good lord. >> if you would have heard, joe, on the call before the show, he was like, now, we should be

talking about, and it wasn't about trump. i'm just saying -- >> i said, let's not talk about trump. we need to talk about israel, talk about this. we need to talk about that. i'm so tired of him. he exhausts me. >> imagine being alex. manhattan district attorney -- >> mika, hold on a second. we need to see t.j. and alex. there we go. >> they're not feeling great. >> hi, guys. >> it is a full house in there. >> thank you. we have the best crew in television news. >> oh, my gosh. >> that's it. our team. >> incredible. we love you guys. >> incredible. >> my gosh. >> they put up with us every day. >> even t.j. >> show it again. t.j. >> yes. >> wait for the camera, t.j. >> wave. >> when did we start working together? >> in 2003. >> whoa. >> tell the story. >> no, no. >> go back to t.j. look at his head. he had a full -- he looked like

fabio in 2003 when he started work. >> i did. you know what that is? all the stress that you give me. it fell out. >> yeah. >> kept dropping out, i know. >> i think you should tell the scarborough country story, where t.j. tried to leave. >> he didn't try to leave. >> he was gone. >> what happened was -- >> you got him gone. >> let's go back to the show. >> wait a second. t.j. and i -- >> zoom in. >> -- we started at the very beginning. >> i used to go on scarborough country. >> no passport required. >> back to the beginning. we had three or four people running the show. it grew. but somebody came in. i won't mention any names. they wanted t.j. out. i was like -- >> get ri of him. >> -- that's not going to work. t.j. and i -- well, i won't get specific, but there was a breaking news event.

the person that was supposed to replace t.j. was sitting next to t.j., and everything i called for would be, like, the wrong picture. after this happened about ten times, i was a younger man then, not as zen as now. >> you might have gotten a little upset. >> i went like this. >> a little upset. >> he was emoting. he was melting down. >> the guy after three minutes was like, i'm out of here. he walks through the door. t.j. moves this thing over and goes, take camera three. he's been here ever since. [ laughter ] >> then i'm stuck, glued to this seat. >> a life sentence. >> he cannot leave. >> you can checkout anytime you want but never leave. mika, let's get to the top story. >> thank you. our top story, 90 minutes into the show. >> mika, do you think you'll be around 20 years from now? >> nope. >> it's hard. >> i'm kind of surprised that i'm still sitting here.

>> i'm talking about with me. will you still have your hair? t.j. stuck around for 20 years, pretty good. >> i don't think so. >> you don't have your hair is what you're saying. all right. here we go. >> yeah. i already lost it once. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg wants to see donald trump's hush money case go to trial next month. trump's attorneys are pushing to dismiss the case after new york prosecutors recently turned over more than 100,000 pages of potential evidence. in a new court filing, bragg's office says fewer than 300 of those pages relate to trump's criminal defense. the d.a.'s filing reads, enough is enough. these tactics by defendant and defense counsel should be stopped. a hearing on the matter has been scheduled for monday when the judge could set a new trial date. wow. joe, monday a big day for trump in, like, his legal swimming

pool of troubles. case after case comes to a head monday. >> we're talking about years, so in effect, i'm talking about how old i am, gene. you know, it is harder to process things the older you get. i'm serious. things come at you. i do wonder sometimes, donald trump is almost 80. i wonder, all the things that are coming at him, i mean, 91 indictments. >> yeah. >> possible bankruptcy. 88 now, sorry. i'll write that down. he must be relieved. >> they could come back. >> 88, it's a lot, gene, for him to be juggling. when he gets on stage, forgets where he is, forgets what year it is, forgets there is a world war ii 2, you kind of understand why. >> yeah, this is an awful lot

for anybody to be dealing with. this weekend, he has to worry about posting the, what, $454 million bond by monday. that deadline is still there. or, potentially, you know, tish, the new york attorney general seizes bedminster and maybe 40 wall street and whatever else she wants to take. he owes the money, and no one will give a bond for it. because, again, why would you give a bond to donald trump? that's the immediate thing he has, his campaign money woes, all his defense fees, all these cases and court appearances. alvin bragg is determined to start this trial in a few weeks. that actually seems reasonable. it would be just the first of

many. yeah, he's got a whole lot to deal with. i guess it is understandable that he would be all over the map at his campaign appearances. how can he keep it straight? how can he not be worrying constantly about losing everything, not just losing the election but losing everything? ultimately his freedom, which is a lot to bear. >> alex said trump posted on truth social that he is close to having the money. >> i knew it. >> let me ask you. mika, don't speculate. >> gets away with everything. >> okay. >> gets away with everything. anthony, he's got a lot that he has to -- that he is taking on board right now. i think one of nikki haley's many, good arguments nikki made was, you don't want a guy

running for president that has all of these things going on. worried about lawsuits, about bonds. talk about, from what you observed with him, how does he juggle all of that? can he continue to juggle all of that? you know, he's gotten a good bit older since he first ran. do you think it gets in his way of being effective on the campaign trail? >> it is going to start to get in his way. he's a great compartmentalizer, and he's done that his whole career. he's filed for bankruptcy before and came out of it. he knows how to compartmentalize. a big part of his success with voters is quote, unquote, i'm really rich. a big success point for his voters, he was the apprentice. if you're filing for bankruptcy, under the gun to get these

monies together, it'll be a problem for him. it'll be a problem for his self-identity when he's telling his product to his people. last week, he had cutouts calling all over wall street looking to find a bond. they were offering 15% coupons on the debt. he couldn't find one person on wall street to secure that bond. >> wow. you want to explain to viewers why that is? >> the reason why that is, he defaults on everything. you know, if you talk to interior designers, architects, construction workers, plumbing people, he doesn't pay his bills. so you can't give him -- >> it's always been that way, hasn't it? >> always been that way. you can't give him the money because you don't have the 100% certainty. i mean, if he was rated by moody's, he'd be a c-plus debt rating, which is specious. his problem now is going to be about the identity he presents to his audience. you know, i'm the guy.

i'm the business maverick. if you don't really have the money like you've been saying you've had the money all these years, i think it is a big achilles heel for him. >> in fairness, that's a lot of liquidity to come up with. >> i know. >> very quickly. >> mark cuban said that. remember, these are low-information voters. they're not as focused on his balance sheet versus not. >> they're low-information voters who are super sympathetic to him and see him right now as being targeted by a blue state. so he does get a little bit of a pass on that. my question to you -- >> but the base has shrunk. >> why doesn't jared kushner step up and help his father out? >> you know the reason for that. what mika is on to, he's going to get the money. the question is -- >> i don't know the reason for that. what is the reason? >> he may end up getting the money. the question is, where did he get the money? did he get it from wall street? from anybody who knows him? where is the money?

with jonathan greenblatt, i wanted to ask, if trump is tight with putin, putin is selling oil through iran, are they putting a hurt on israel together? trump is very transactional. he says one thing this way about israel, he'll go completely against israel if it is in his interests. my point is, where's that money coming from? it could be in that axis of autocracy. we need to find out where the money is coming from, if he gets it. he's not getting it from wall street. i can tell ya that. declarative no from every distressed lender on wall street. there was a little giggle group chat among a lot of people saying, can you believe this guy is looking for a half a billion dollars with a 15% coupon? $75 million a year, joe. he doesn't have the money. >> let's bring in right now state attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg. dave, let's talk about alvin bragg, saying enough is enough.

time to bring this to trial. you think we're going to see that soon? >> i do, joe. good to be with you and mika and t.j. this morning. >> yes. >> morning, t.j. >> thank you. >> well, i do think judges matter, joe. judge merchan wants this to do. bragg said, you know the delay tactics, judge, because you were in attacked by trump to get off the case and delay this further. don't give in now. of the 170 documents, only 270 apply to this case, are relevant to the defense. most are incriminating. don't delay this any further. i think judge merchan on monday is going to set a trial date for april. i think this is going to happen before the election. >> how do you see this case? how do you see the strength of this case? a lot of people have been critical of it. i've been less critical,

frankly, because i think, you know, it is a legitimate case. let it go to trial. but some people have said this is the least serious case. it shouldn't be the first one to go to trial. what do you think about that? >> of the four trials hanging over donald trump's head, gene, this is the fourth out of four. it doesn't mean it is a weak case. it's just the least strong case. because you have a series of misdemeanors you have to turn into a felony. what is the felony here? it would be using this scam to conceal an elections crime. can you as a state official charge based on federal campaign finance violations? >> dave, let me ask you this. is this the weakest case? i know alvin bragg's office will be indignant and say it is not, but is this manhattan case the weakest case if you talk to legal scholars across the idealogical spectrum? >> i think it is the weakest of the four cases, but it is not a

weak case. first off, you've got a paper case here. did he falsify business records? yeah. then you've got a really sympathetic jury to the state, a blue area in manhattan. it is not going to be a good jury pool for donald trump. yes, i think he'll likely be convicted. will he face prison time? yeah, very possibly. it'll go on appeal. it is probably not the best case to go first. you want the january 6th case to go first because that resonates with the american people. opposed to this case. but it's what we have. it's the only case, i think, that is guaranteed to go before the election. the only other chance would be the and don't expect the strongest case here, the mar-a-lago documents case to happen any time soon. you've got judge cannon slowwalking it. that's what we have. so yes, joe. i think it's the weakest case of the four for prosecutors, but it is not a weak case. i think it will lead to a conviction. >> all right. state attorney for palm beach

county, always good to see you. thanks for coming on this morning. anthony scaramucci, thank you as well. >> anthony, you come back. >> please. any time. >> eugene robinson, we'll be reading your new piece online. >> thank you. >> at "the washington post." thank you all very much. >> thanks to t.j. as well. >> yes. >> yes, t.j. out. okay. house democrats have elected a new member to its leadership. house member joe neguse was elected on wednesday replacing congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. the colorado lawmaker's ascension marks a full turnover of democratic leadership. congressman clyburn was the only member to retain a leadership position after former speaker nancy pelosi and stenny hoyer stepped down. congressman neguse, congratulations on your new position, and we'll start --

look. there's been a lot going on this week. we'll just get this one out of the way. how has the biden impeachment hearing been going? because every day we cover it, there seems to be something new that happens that reveals there's nothing new. >> well, it's good to be with you, mika. thanks for having me on. i have to just first say, jim clyburn is a living legend and a civil rights icon. no one can we place him. i'm grateful to him for his mentorship and to benefit from his wisdom in the house caucus as we all are. with respect to the impeachment, you said it well. it is a farcical effort to deter attention away from cutting social security, and impacting families in a negative way. you know, and you've covered this extensively, that house republicans have yet to offer any evidentiary basis for their impeachment effort, no

articulation as to what would beat the constitutional standard, which is an exacting one. the american people know that well because they know what a high crime and misdemeanor looks like because they saw it on january 6th with respect to former president trump's conduct and the days leading up to that day. i think this impeachment is dead on arrival. the republicans know that. i hope they'll see the light soon and get serious about governing. >> so in the middle of all this, a lot of important issues are not getting the time they deserve. the border, the republicans punted on that, and obviously foreign aid which we're going to talk about in just a moment, but you were impeachment manager on trump's impeachment inquiry. it seems what's going on between the two parties right now, it's all about massive contrast, and in these impeachment inquiries, describe the contrast. >> yeah, i think that you're right, mika. in some respects, the larger contrasts and the two starkly

different visions that house democrats, president biden, and house republicans have offered to the country. house democrats have been focused on addressing consequential challenges our country faces, lowering costs, putting people over politics, offering a hopeful vision for the future, and house republicans have done the opposite. they want to drag our country backwards, unfortunately. led of course, by former president trump. they're focused exclusively on retribution, and of course, this impeachment effort is as i said, a farcical one at that. it doesn't meet any of the constitutional standards. it's precisely that. it represents the sum tot total that power, and they've wasted 14 or 15 months in congress when we could be doing the work of the american people that they expect us to do. >> so congressman, given your new leadership position, what will you be focusing on that is legitimately within the realm of possible given the division that you were just discussing?

>> well, i would say that first and foremost, leader jeffries from the outset of the 118th congress as you know has extended the hand of partnership to house republicans, has made every effort to work in good faith to address some of those consequential challenge that is we face. i think that he has done a masterful job, just a masterful job with ranking member deloro by negotiating the appropriations bills that we are taking up this week and have taken up in the last several weeks, bills that keep the government open and ensure that critical services remain up and running for the american people. there will be more opportunities in the coming, the reauthorization of the farm bill, incredibly important to america's farmers, folks in my state and elsewhere. there's important work to do in washington and i'm humbled to be be able to be a part of the leadership team and work with leader jeffries and the incredible members of the house

democratic caucus to get it done. >> congressman joe neguse of colorado. thank you and congratulations. we appreciate you coming on this morning. >> thank you. >> all right. take care. the house of representatives will likely vote later today on a government funding package ahead of this evening's deadline. the deal which includes funding for the departments of homeland security, state, and other agencies, is likely to face pushback from far-right republicans who say house speaker mike johnson did not secure enough conservative wins. joining us now, democratic congresswoman barbara lee. she was one of the negotiators of the funding package. thank you for coming on the show this morning. >> nice being with you. >> it's good to have you. what gets funded, and where does foreign aid stand, particularly for ukraine? >> sure. well, in this bill, let me tell you.

first of all, the house, of course, is led by a republican speaker who donald trump actually supported, and who has donald trump's agenda, but having said that, democrats have negotiated a deal that puts us in a place where we're making sure that we don't shut down the government, but it will be democrats who bring those votes to the table to ensure that. with regard to the subcommittee where i'm the ranking member, let me just say, again, in the minority, the negotiations were very, very tough. state and foreign operations is the subcommittee which provides investments for all of our global, peace, and security development diplomacy. we took a 6% cut because of the republicans whereas defense, which has failed six audits received an increase of $27 billion, and so part of

rebalancing our role in the world has to do with diplomacy development, and how we ensure that the united states main -- maintains its leadership in global peace and security, and so the negotiations, again, democrats did, i think, a very good job, but, in fact, we still have personally, a large defense budget which i believe does take away and i know it takes away from domestic priorities and our global peace and security development and diplomacy initiatives. >> congresswoman, part of the funding includes a one-year extension for pepfar, which has been one of the agencies over the last few decades. women in children in africa have been saved by the funding to help them who have hiv and aids. why is that, and explain why

this is so urgent and critical to pass. >> i am very disappointed that the republicans, again, pushed back on what has been a bipartisan effort since president bush and myself worked on this. remember, i, post-president bush on almost every single policy including the authorizations to use force, where i voted against those, one of them by myself, but having said that, i worked with president bush to implement pepfar which to date, has been one of the most -- well, the most effective global hiv/aids initiative and we've saved 25 million lives, and so we have a goal achieving an aids-free generation by 2030, and i have been negotiating with the republicans trying to get just a base you can five-year clean extension which we have done in the past with bipartisan support. now the politics have weighed in, unfortunately.

now there are some who have put forth -- maga extremist republicans, of course, misinformation, disinformation about abortions which had nothing to do with pepfar. nothing has changed since they agreed with the last five-year extension and so we have a one-year extension. that's better than nothing, but let me tell you. it's wrong. we're trying to save lives. we're trying to get to -- to an aids-free generation by 2030. we're going to continue to work toward that end, but in this bill, it's a one-year extension and i'm very disappointed because it should have been a five-year clean extension with bipartisan support, which it has been for all of these years. >> so congresswoman lee is getting the hollywood treatment. i don't know if you know about that. she's getting the hollywood treatment through netflix's new movie "shirley," directed by someone we know very well, john ridley. shirley chisholm's presidential campaign. what a landmark campaign after

becoming the first black woman elected to congress. eddie, this looks great. >> yesterday, you talked about student government at the university of alabama. when i ran for student government, my slogan was, unbossed and unbalked which came from miss shirley chisholm. congresswoman lee, talk about this film, how important shirley chisholm was to you. a single mom, you meet her. how she inspired your political career. talk about what this means to you. >> i am deeply grateful to netflix, to john ridley. regina came to christina jackson who plays barbara lee in the film. she was the first woman and first african american to run for the presidency. i was a black student union in mills college and i was a community worker with the black panther party. i was not a member, but a community worker, and i like so

many young people these days did not believe that the republicans nor democrats were speaking to the issues myself as a young black woman, single mom raising two years, had to take my children to college with me to class because i couldn't afford child care. i had a class in government required to work in a presidential campaign. i was going to flunk it because i did not want to work for humphrey, mcgovern. she came to campus and said she was running for president. i went up and told her about my dilemma. she took me to task and told me, i must register to vote, and she wanted me involved in her campaign. so fast forward, i got involved. i got an a in my class, went to miami as a shirley chisholm delegate, and the rest is history. she was a mentor, a friend, and helped me run for public office in the assembly, the california senate and the united states congress, and she taught me so much, and she taught me as a black woman, she said, you cannot believe that this

country's laws and rules were made for you and i. she said, you've got to get in there, shake things up, make life better for everyone, and dismantle and disrupt the policies that really are discriminatory and a barrier for so many people who are marginalized to move forward. she was a phenomenal woman, and i loved her dearly, and she was a mentor, and here i am because of shirley chisholm. i say, because of shirley chisholm, i am. >> democratic congresswoman, barbara lee of california, thank you. what a great note to end the week on. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> nice being with you. >> we appreciate it. and still ahead, we'll be joined by democratic senator elizabeth warren. we'll also speak with white house communications director ben labolt. following president biden's visits to key battleground states this week, and my interview with award-winning

singer shania twain. how she faced loss and finding her voice in the face of tragedy. the third hour of "morning joe" continues right now. some more political news today, biden canceled nearly $6 billion in federal student debt for thousands of public service workers. [ applause ] ♪♪ it was a bold decision by biden. i'm not sure march madness is the best time to give everyone more money. that's right. biden canceled almost $6 billion in debt. then one guy was, like, now do me. please. >> donald trump could use the money because he is days away from potentially having some of his assets in new york seized. we'll tell you which properties new york attorney general letitia james appears to be targeting. plus a new development that should be surprising to no one. a deal between donald trump and the rnc will make it more likely

that donor money is spent on his legal bills. and we'll have a look at president biden's time on the campaign trail this week which included a new nickname for his predecessor. good morning. happy friday. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, march 22nd. does it feel like friday, joe? >> yes. >> yes. [ laughter ] >> oh my god. does it feel like friday? it felt like friday on tuesday. you know, some weeks fly. >> we love it so much. >> well, no. i mean, i wish. i wish it could be monday all over again. >> yeah. yeah. not really. okay. with us, we have former aide to the george w. bush white house, elise jordan, professor at princeton university, eddie claude jr., former white house communications director to president obama, jennifer

palmieri, and the host of the podcast on brand with donny deutsche, he's with us, and editor of politics at politico, sam stein doing some "way too early" duty for us this week. thank you very much, sam. >> it's incredible. hey, sam. how are your brackets doing right now? >> not particularly great, honestly. lots of upsets of my picks, but i was actually kind of pleased to see kentucky go down even though i had them going pretty far in the bracket. >> huge upsets all around. oakland. >> who would think the as would be any good? >> a lot of 11 seeds, but yeah. kentucky getting out of there early. we're going to get to the story in a second, but jen, i've just got to say, you have been in the middle of quite a few political campaigns. what a nightmare. i'm dead serious here. what a nightmare it has to be

being a part of donald trump's campaign, being grossly underfunded, and knowing that trump has put his family in charge of the rnc or being a republican candidate downballot. i have been one of those before where you're just praying that the rnc can help you out. and all of that money is going for a guy who's just completely beyond cash-strapped. i mean, for a lot of legitimate reasons, and again, we said this yesterday. there a lot of billionaires who would not have $500 billion lying around, but they really are. he has all along, but they're really leveraging his campaign for his personal use. >> yeah. >> and it's -- these are the sort of things that may not know up in stupid polls in march. >> right. >> this is the stuff, that as

you make that final turn after labor day -- i thought and i'm not saying that's going to happen, but i thought stuart stevens had a pretty good insight. he said, everybody's talking about how this race looks right now. he said, to stuart, and he knows a thing or two about campaigns. he says it's looking like 1980 in reverse where, you know, jimmy carter/ronald reagan all year, too close to call. >> yeah. >> and things just flipped near the end, and that's what stuart says. if you look at how things are lining up, we don't know what's going to happen over the next six months, but man. if you look at any of the fundamentals about politics, this is -- this looks like -- this looks like stuart may be onto something, and alex told me they got stuart right here. play him real quick. >> my image of the trump campaign is somebody walking around with a paper bag full of

water. i don't think it's going to leak, but i think when this thing goes, it's going to go quickly, and there's a good chance we're going to have a situation like 1980 in reverse where carter was tight with reagan until the middle of october and kind of the bottom fell out for carter. >> i always tell my kids, if things look like they're too good to be true, they're too good to be true, and if you are looking at something that just doesn't make sense, you know, there's a reason, and here we're looking at something that makes no sense. this guy's getting crazier by the day. he's got no money. the campaign is just broke. people don't want to give money. he's down $200,000 contributors to where he was in the cycle four years ago. biden's raised $71 million. people are begging, literally begging -- literally begging, and any idiot that runs some, like, podcast, they're begging. they're calling contributors and

saying, how can i help? i want to write checks for joe biden. put that number up again. what was said about money and politics? it's the mother's milk of politics, and right now joe biden's got all he wants, and donald trump, he's a little thirsty. getting crushed here, and here's the most important thing. it's the small donors too. >> yeah. >> it's not just the big donors. it's the small donors, and why? i've always talked about my grandmom giving money to the ptl club. at some point, you figure out what jim and tammy fay are really up to, and in this case, they know. if they're writing $25 checks to donald trump, it's not going to make america great again. it's going to donald trump's lawyers. >> yeah. and that is like if the polls were right, why is joe biden getting a lot of money, you know? some of it's big checks and some

of it is small donor checks and donald trump is not getting anything, but i think that either we don't talk about trump's weaknesses and the fundamentals and his campaign are very weak. it's like, he doesn't have any money. he has 91 counts against him, four indictments, trials he's, like, trying to balance, and he can't raise any money. he has to raid $500 million by monday, and i think you'll brace -- you'll agree with this. the polls may not change into biden's favor until the fall. that's when people will start to pay attention. >> just so people understand, we went into the final weekend -- i'm old enough to remember this. i know donny is. final weekend. there was, i think, you know, "time" magazine came out back when we had magazines. >> yeah. >> i know we were younger people and had magazines to read, and on friday before the tuesday election in 1980, nobody knew if jimmy carter was going to win or

ronald reagan's going to win, and just a collapse over the weekend. >> yeah. >> and you look at the fundamentals. you look at the fundamentals. you look at the economy, and we're going to show an ad. are you better off than you were four years ago? damn straight, you are, unless you're donald trump. >> yeah. >> the fundamentals in every way. the money, the economy, you name it. this week we find out jay powell is doing three interest rate cuts and he's whistling past the graveyard. no, i'm not. it doesn't make sense that donald trump is going to pull this out at the end. he doesn't have money. >> and they don't -- why the money's so important for biden right now is he's the one that we need to hear more about. he's the one that we need to hear more about, and he's going to be on the air right now

reaching the voters that were for him in '20 that are mushy now and telling them what they need to know in march about what he's accomplished, like, that is, you know, when are all these accomplishments going to break through? starting now because now they can put these ads, you know, these ads on the air. >> big question too, will trump have the money to go on the air in july, august, september, october? at the rate he's going, maybe something will dramatically change with this fund-raising. >> right. >> looking back at 2020, his lack of being on the air is what a lot of analysts attribute to some of his slump in certain battleground states, and so if he can't get those fund-raising numbers up dramatically, it's not good for him, and he's going to fall victim to the same pattern. >> what does joe biden have to do? donny, we'll talk to you in a second. we ought to go after this type or that. my family, we grew up as a crest family. we just did.

you can give us a million colgate -- all the samples you want. we would throw them in the trash can. what is this? what the hell, mary joe? and we would throw it away. i'm saying, there's crest families and colgate families and aqua whatever -- >> aquafresh. >> but here, joe biden, he doesn't have to turn crest families into colgate families. he just needs the crest families to go back to their cabinet and open it up with young voters, hispanics, black voters. he needs to hold serve. >> right. >> it's easier to hold serve, and this isn't a pep rally for democrats. this is just politics 101. that's what joe biden has to do. donald trump, he can do it.

we've seen it before. he's got -- he's got to break a lot of serves between now and november to win. >> i think that's absolutely right, joe, but i was listening to you and i wanted to ask you this question because i think, you know, the analogy to '80 makes sense to me, but against the backdrop of the culture wars, against the backdrop of the deep divisions that go beyond politics as usual, i'm thinking about this sense that we've lost the country. what makes donald trump interesting is not -- to me at least, is not the particulars of who he is. he's an avatar for these conflicts. so what role will the culture wars play in this? in this election? >> it's always been there. the culture wars have always been there. >> at this level of intensity? >> it's always been here, and i would say actually, the republicans, you look at the

republicans. you look at the noise machine. you look at all the outlets that are running their stories. remember the immigrants with leprosy in 2018? all the caravans? they were coming. they were coming. we were all going to have skin falling off of us. well, what happened? democrats won in 2018. we heard the same thing in 2020. also in 2022, trans athletes were coming to your neighborhood, and they were going to have sex with whoever you didn't want them to have sex with. i mean, they would -- republicans -- some republicans sent out 20 mailers on trans athletes. >> right. >> red wave now. again, sound and fury signifying nothing. you look at the two issues now that are the social issues that matter the most to people,

abortion and guns, and both of those have nothing to do with ideology. we're beyond the ideology wars. we now have fathers looking at daughters. we have mothers looking at daughters. we have family members looking at their moms going, is she going to get the help that she needs from her doctor? or is she going to bleed out outside the hospital room? and the same thing with guns. i know -- i know really conservative people, really conservative, who, like, openly wept -- openly wept when they had to send their children to school on the first day because it came a couple of weeks after a shooting. what in the hell? i mean, like -- that -- those are social issues that come

through, like, you're talking about trans athletes. let's just say it. 85% of americans don't think that a man post-puberty should compete against women in sports. if you want to have that debate, have that debate, and if you don't like how i said it, you and the other 5%, you guys go in a corner somewhere and debate it, but right here where 85% of americans live, republicans can try to scare people over trans issues or this issue. americans are, like, come on. at the end of the day, mika, people vote their interests, and at the end of the day when the curtains close, they're going to ask themselves that question. are you better off today than you were four years ago? >> yeah, and joe biden has the ad out that i think is striking, and i think this is a theme they need to build upon, and this should be the first of many.

maybe it is, but they're using the time-tested political question which was originally posed by former president ronald reagan during a 1980 presidential debate. are you better off now than you were four years ago? here's the ad released yesterday. >> and then i see the disinfectant, and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection inside or -- >> on a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your response to this crisis? >> i would rate it a ten. i think we've done a great job. >> what do you say to americans who are watching right now who are scared? >> i would say you're a terrible reporter. that's what i would say. >> i don't take responsibility at all. i think we're doing really, really well. >> i tell you what. thousands of americans are dying a day. >> it's dying. it's true, and it is what it is. >> yeah, joe.

the only thing that ad is missing is donald trump telling bob woodward that he could have told americans about this months and months before the pandemic began. >> he didn't want to. >> he didn't want to. >> he also spent a lot of time running around four years ago talking about how it was only two people coming from china, one person here, one person there. also that president xi did a remarkable job, was transparent on the behalf of the american people. >> do you want to go back to that? >> he was thanking president xi for doing such a great job on covid. >> it's kind of remarkable how much this election will hinge on whether or not trump gets blamed for the last year of his presidency, right? in his retelling, his presidency ended in february of 2020, right? everything after that, he doesn't want to talk about.

he doesn't say it's his fault. covid never happened in his retelling, but obviously we're in a place where we could say, this specific date, it was this day where you promised this virus was under control and there were only 14 cases in merge. it was this days you suggested the injection of bleach into the lungs may be a useful medication to combat covid, and, you know, we're going to have this over and over and over again because the last ten months or nine months of his presidency before the election were horrifying for america objectively. mass death, stock market implosion, incredible amount of joblessness, and it won't be the deciding issue, but it will be one of the deciding issues of how much voters both recall that year and what it was like, and how much they blame trump for that year. trump is going to have to do a lot to convince them, hey. this wasn't my fault, but i don't think that's easy. >> well, he can't because

democrats don't think he did enough, and of course, he had just absolutely insane press conferences. >> he didn't do enough. >> republicans think he did too much. lots of luck with that. ron desantis just kept hammering him for doing too much, for ordering florida shut down, or ordering other states shut down. good luck with that. so donny, we've given you an awful lot here to chew on, and i'm serious. i want to bring up one issue that alex brought to my attention, that is an issue that would normally hurt democrats, a social issue that would normally hurt democrats. it is, of course, on the front page of the newspaper of record for "morning joe." the "new york post." >> yeah. >> onslaught. now listen. any other election cycle, again, it's not dispositive as it was in '18, or '20, or '22.

this would hurt democrats, but if i'm a democrat running for office, this is what i do. i pick up a paper. i pick up something. if i were a democrat running for office, i would do this. i would be carrying this around all day. look at what the republicans are doing to you. look at what donald trump -- donald trump said -- donald trump said, and by the way, this is for you at home. so come to the at-home camera, t.j. thank you. god bless you. you're so good at this, and to think you just started last week. i'm joking, t.j. so t.j., can i get a t.j. cam? i hope t.j.'s here. >> not yet. not this second. >> he's feeling pretty. >> he's in his underwear at home. >> picking on a director that mattered, but no, t.j.'s there. i'm sorry. t.j.'s been with us for 20 years by the way. he's family. >> can't get rid of him. >> i would carry this around because see this "onslaught"

headline? the only thing "the post" didn't tell you is donald trump said blame me for this. donald trump said, kill the bill, and blame me for everything that happens after this point. donald trump said, blame me, so yes, donald. we are blaming you. we're blaming mini me mike johnson for following your orders. we're blaming republicans who begged for a tough border bill, but like the wall street editorial page said, couldn't take yes for an answer. so yes, there is an onslaught at the southern border still, and it's all donald trump's fault. you know who says that? donald trump.

donald trump says blame him for this. so we will. >> if there were a wall up there, right, too, it wouldn't be -- it would be a non-issue. >> well, of course. >> he didn't build the wall. couldn't get it done. >> didn't build the wall either. >> i'm going to hold up a paper of record also to show you i could not agree with you more, but talk about all of this. >> colgate versus crest, biden leading the serve by getting his whole base out. that is so much easier to do in advertising or politics. >> i think that immigration is the issue. it's interesting when you talk to people and what they are so upset about is when they hear something like, they're taking a billion dollars out of the new york city budget to take care of illegal immigrants and they're going to have less teachers and less police officers. that hits you in the gut. the answer is the democrats have to be offensive about that. tom swazi ran a great campaign

in the third district. >> and he won. >> he was a democrat and he was running against a very good candidate and he said, look. the democrats are the ones who want to put this problem to bed. the democrats had the toughest immigration bill in a generation, and donald trump told the republicans, don't vote for it. it's that simple. this is the issue. this is the issue that i believe is hitting people in the gut, in addition obviously to abortion. >> he also said, blame me. he said, blame me for killing the immigration bill. blame me for everything that happened just like on abortion. he said that he was the one that terminated roe v. wade. >> yeah. yeah. >> repeatedly. >> so those are the two benchmark -- abortion and immigration. those are the two guttural issues and you've got to g offensive and say, guess what? donald trump is to blame for a woman's -- the lack of a right to choose of potentially a national abortion ban, and at

the same time, once again, republicans are the ones to blame on immigration. coming up, does israel's future depend on what benjamin netanyahu does next? we'll talk about the new phase in the gaza war and how the white house really feels about the israeli labor. "morning joe" is coming right back. labor "morning joe" is coming right back the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai... ...with a perfect name, a great logo, and a beautiful website. just start with a domain, a few clicks, and you're in business. make now the future at godaddy.com/airo

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ceasefire in the war in gaza, saying it's imperative to protect civilians and ensure more aid can be delivered to the enclave. there's no direct call for the release of the remaining hostages, but the resolution says it supports diplomatic efforts to secure a deal. this is the strongest language the white house has supported so far. it is a shift from last month when the u.s. vetoed a similar resolution over concerns voting for the measure could disrupt hostage negotiations. but in recent weeks, the biden administration has been more outspoken in its push for a ceasefire warning civilians in gaza are on the brink of famine. meanwhile, house speaker mike johnson says he plans to invite israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu to speak to congress. the last time netanyahu

addressed a joint session was in 2015. back then, both chambers were controlled by republicans. netanyahu used his time to criticize the obama administration for negotiating a nuclear deal with iran. things are really different right now, joe. >> mm-hmm. >> and the division between republicans and democrats once again, is sort of showing itself in this issue with the israeli prime minister. >> i wish we had a fainting couch. i would use it. >> i know. >> benjamin netanyahu came into the united states, went into the people's house, the heart of american democracy and attacked a democratic president? why, this is a democracy. i thought fellow democracies weren't supposed to interfere with -- i mean, such garbage. it is such garbage. sam stein, the biden administration has been moving toward -- toward where blinken

says we're going now with a u.n. ceasefire. talk about that process, how this has been a long time coming, and what the white house expects out of it. >> i think the word long time coming is accurate here. the frustration level with the netanyahu government has been just growing and growing over weeks and months, and, you know, frankly, it's remarkable to a degree that the administration has stayed as supportive as it's been considering the backlash that the president has endured, but internally, you know, they have been warning against a rafah invasion. they've pushed it off, but netanyahu has not ruled it out. they want to get more humanitarian aid into gaza. netanyahu has not helped with that. he's questioned the decision to build a cure for the delivery of the aid, and they've also basically plotted for the idea that netanyahu won't hold onto political power once this war ends, but as we all know, and

netanyahu is not going to go quietly, and he's not -- he has no plans to end the war any time soon, and so, you know, we're at a place now where the administration is willing to work a little bit more through the u.n. obviously they're not willing to endorse what chuck schumer said, but i thought the most instructive comment of the past month was when biden was asked about that schumer speech where chuck schumer said, we need a new government in israel. he didn't say anything, other than it was a good speech. he didn't endorse it, but he said, it was a good speech, and it gives you a good idea of where his head is at. coming up, charlotte alter reports on the democrats' turnaround plan for team biden. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe.

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at the "forbes" know your value summit in abu dhabi earlier this month, i sat down with five-time-grammy award-winning singer/songwriter, shania twain. she launched her music career despite growing up in an abusive household where she says she often didn't know where her next meal would come from. three decades later, the

58-year-old said she left the 3050 summit more inspired and motivated than ever to write new music and continue to inspire women and girls around the world. she has come to divine perseverance. the remarkable thing about her career is her ability to overcome some of life's greatest challenges. >> my own mother died at the age of 42, and this was marker for me psychologically. >> yeah. >> and, in fact, both my parents died in that same car crash, so they were 40 and 42 years old. so it was difficult because it was a premature age to lose my parents. i could never have imagined that i would be where i am today. hi a really great imagination, but i'm not really sure i was aware even of what this was, and i always wanted to be -- my

music to be shared with everyone around the world, but at 8 years old, i'm not even sure i realized how big the world was. so it's a beautiful thing sometimes to not know. >> yeah. your mom knew. >> well, my mother knew. she really believed in my talent. she really believed that i had a talent. i was not somebody that loved the spotlight. i would have been very happy just writing music. writing is my real core passion, and it was my mother that put me out in the spotlight because she believed that i also had a voice. so i ended up becoming a singer/songwriter, recording artist and performer. >> you mentioned losing your parents to a car accident. there was also financial strain when you grew up. there was physical abuse at times, divorce, and then what

really sticks out to me in terms of especially looking at how you're managing your career, a seven-year health battle. where do you get the scrappiness, i guess, or the grit, the determination to move forward when it really does seem like all is lost? >> well, if i go back to thinking through how i did survive and overcome and stay motivated in life in general, whether it was the violence in our home or whether it was being -- going hungry in our home, or going cold, losing our home many times, i changed goals 17 times because we needed to -- in my youth because we needed to keep running away from the bill collectors. that sort of thing. so by the time i was without my

parents even -- my parents had already died and i'm moving on with my career. i'm so ready for anything. i'm, like, you know, bring it on. i can -- i felt like i could get through anything. the hardships made me feel less fearful of what was ahead, but of course, i didn't know i was then going to have health issues with my voice, that i would lose my voice and then need open-throat surgery. so how do you get through all these things? i have to just say optimism. hold onto optimism. whatever you do, do not let go. hold onto optimism with dear life. >> a seven-year pause in your music career and performing career. it kind of seems like career death. like, how old were you when that hit? >> i was in my 30s. >> in your 30s. i would think the outlook that one would have is, this is over. it wasn't, and i would tell her it's not, but i would think that would really haunt you. >> i do want to explain that because i wear so many hats in

my career, and i am, of course, the performing, recording vocal artist, but it's really the only part that most people know about me. i said it a little bit earlier, the core of what i've always done at the beginning, to escape the violence at home, to escape being hungry, a lot of things in my youth, i turned to songwriting, using my imagination, creating my own world, creating my own characters, creating my own stories, taking myself out of my environment and my current situation. escapism through writing, and when i lost my voice, all hope was not lost. i was devastated that i may not ever sing again, and that was, you know, a pending reality, but i was ready to shift all of my energy and was actually excited about now focusing so much on my

writing. i had to be ready to adapt. i often say that women -- the spirit of a woman is like water and you cannot stop the flow of water, and that is the imagination. the imagination is free just like water. >> i mean, you learned maybe through the inevitability of life experiences coming to you -- coming at you very early, that you had to adapt. >> this is where my creative and artist development began by necessity. if i was -- if i went to school hungry, and i had no lunch onto the desk when everybody else was bringing out their lunch or i didn't have any winter boots. i was in rubber boots in 40 below celsius, i had to make up stories for why that was so social services would not step in and start questioning my parents and interrogating everyone.

so i had to be very, very confident that i was okay. i had to make sure. oh, no, no, i'm fine. i'm not hungry today, whatever the excuse was. this was just me being creative in finding my way. that was the spirit of water in motion from the very beginning. >> you can see more of our conversations with some of the world's most remarkable women from the forbes know your value 30/50 summit at knowyourvalue.com. you can also head to forbes.com to nominate a woman or know your value and nominate yourself for the next 50 over 50 list. up next, senator elizabeth warren is standing by. she joins the conversation when "morning joe" comes right back. k

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ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states of america, barack obama. [ applause ] >> if you can believe it, that was 14 years ago tomorrow when the affordable care act was signed into law. this morning, to mark the anniversary, the biden/harris campaign has a new ad focused on the issue of health care. here's an exclusive first look. >> obamacare is a disaster. what i would like to do is totally kill it. obamacare is a catastrophe.

>> and this year a record number of americans signed up for coverage under the landmark health care law. apparently they like their health care. joining us now senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. she serves as a national advisory board member for the biden/harris campaign. it's great to have you back on the show, senator. >> thank you. good to be here. >> we can add the border to the biden side, guns, roe, the aca. these are issues that republicans always seem to find themselves on the wrong side of as it pertains to most americans. how can the campaign drill down on this in the months to come? >> i love that ad. happy 14th birthday, affordable

care act. we could do balloons and candles, but what joe biden is doing in that ad is he's saying two things. i want everybody in america to understand what's on the line. this is literally about life and death. and the second thing joe biden is doing is saying, i will fight not for giant corporations and big insurance companies, not for people, billionaires who don't want to have to pay taxes. i will fight for you so that you have health care coverage. and that's true if you're one of the 20 million people getting your health care through the affordable care act directly, but it's also true if you're one of those people under the age of 26 who's still getting health care because you're on your parents' plan. it's true if you're somebody with a preexisting condition. before the affordable care act, those insurance companies discriminated against women for

being women. they discriminated against people with asthma and people with diabetes, people with heart conditions. all of that has gone away. joe biden says i am going to fight for your access to health care. go, joe biden. >> it's all about preserving and protecting in this race, preserving and protecting our democracy, our health care or you'll lose it, like we have lost women's health care, abortion rights, abortion health care rights. >> you know, on this one, it's important to remember this isn't just hand waving about what's at risk. you hear in the ad donald trump's own words. but, remember, we for the first time in a long time are going to have two people running for president, both of whom have been president. what did donald trump do while he was president? well, he got an extremist supreme court in that rolled

back roe v wade, biggest tax cut in a zillion years, $2 trillion, for giant corporations, millionaires and billionaires. and he came within vote of repealing the affordable care act. i remember being on the floor for that vote. the republican house voted to repeal the affordable care act. i remember what they did after they voted to repeal it. they went to the white house lawn to celebrate with donald trump, drink beer and toast for taking away health care for millions of americans. it comes to the senate. no one is sure what the count is. there aren't enough democrats stop it. we've got to have a little bit of republican help. it all comes down to john mccain. i watched him as he walked down to vote, walked away, came back. mike pence was there.

they took him out into the hallway to try to twist his arm to make sure he voted to repeal health care. finally, he walks back in. talk about a moment where your heart's thumping. he holds his hand up and votes no that he will not repeal the affordable care act. but understand this. that's how close we came. >> right. >> joe biden is reminding us of that. your health, the health of someone you love is on the ballot in 2024. >> it's the top of the hour and we are speaking with senator elizabeth warren. it is the 14th anniversary of the affordable care act being launched. we're talking about our health care in jeopardy in this presidential election and how women's health care has already quite frankly been thrown out the window. tuesday supreme court oral arguments on the fate of mifepristone. do you think, senator, that in vivid reality maybe finally more

americans who already were for the most part on the side of a woman having the right to choose what to do with her body, but are they beginning to understand in vivid detail that abortion is health care. it can save a life. it can save the ability to have future pregnancies. it can save a woman from profound trauma. it can save abnormal fetus from coming to term and dying a slow, painful death. it is real health care. >> you know, that's the part that since this extremist supreme court put in place by donald trump has repeated roe v wade, first time in our history that a constitutionally protected right has been taken away from americans, from half of our population. i think that more and more people have read the stories,

have heard the stories from friends, from neighbors, have experienced it themselves and said, wait a minute, what these republicans are doing is -- yes, it's about termination of a pregnancy, but it's about health care overall. it means there are doctors right now today down in texas who are going through the calculation of this is what i would do because you're in here, you've got a terrible problem in this pregnancy. this pregnancy needs to be terminated. but because some politician has made the decision about your health care, i'm not able to do it. so here are doctors who today are saying, what's my workaround? how close to death do you have to be before i can provide this service? should i tell you to get in a car and travel several hours to go to another state where you can get the care that you need?

this is fundamentally, if you believe that health care is about a patient and a docto and that's it, then you believe that we need joe biden in there to fight for access. we need joe biden and a democratic senate and a democratic house so we can put roe v wade back in as the law of the land. i want to remind everybody we can actually do that. we can pass the law and make it the law of the land. the republicans know that. that's why they are fighting hard right now to block that access. again, abortion and all of women's health care going to be on the ballot in 2024. that's why i'm here for joe biden, kamala harris and the democrats up and down the ticket. >> i want to ask you about a story that broke yesterday, because you also have such expertise in fairness in business, bankruptcy,

protections for small businesses and innovators. the justice department has filed a landmark anti-trust lawsuit against apple accusing the company of monopolizing the smart phone market. i've been wondering about this. the civil suit joined by attorneys general for 15 states and the district of columbia accuses the tech giant of restricting its smart phone operating system in a way that drives up costs for consumers and prevents developers from successfully releasing products on other smart phone systems. >> yep. >> it's an 88-page lawsuit, the doj arguing the company violated anti-trust laws with practices intended to keep customers reliant on their iphones and less likely to switch to a competing device. let me put out apple's statement here. they say the allegations and they accuse the government of overreach, saying it was under no obligation to use designs or

policies preferred by competitors, especially when those designs would make iphone users' experiences worse. what do you make of this latest move? and do you agree they are having a hold not only on consumers, but on competitors? >> here's what's happened. somebody builds a great product, people want to buy it and that makes them big, that's great. but what apple did over time is they built what's called walled gardens. this is how we refer to it. that is, all the products and services all tie together, in effect, behind the wall. if you're a developer and you've got some really super duper cool app that you want to be able to sell, sorry, you are outside the wall. apple says not going to compete with you. and the people within the walled garden all have to stay inside

it. it's not about out-competing all of those competitors. it's about building walls that are high enough that all of your users never get to try anyone else. i'll give you an example of that. it turns out that about 98% of people who replace their iphones replace them with another iphone. you know why? because it's really easy to do that. but when you go to countries that have actually pushed on apple's monopoly and say you've got to permit super apps, which mean other apps that make it easy to migrate all of your data and connections to another phone, only about half of the people when they replaced their iphones go with another iphone. they want to try something else. that means lower prices, more competition, more things they can see in the marketplace. apple here in the united states has blocked all that off. so what the ftc and department

of justice is saying is that it's not that you are big because you created this one product everyone wants. it's because you're created these anti-competitive practices that mean nobody gets to look at any of the alternative options, apps and so on. and they want to break that up. i think they're exactly right. >> senator elizabeth warren, thank you very much for coming back on the show. it's always great to see you. >> always good to see you. donny deutsch has rejoined the conversation. joining us now the president of the national action network, host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton. and --

>> i went to colonial williamsburg, virginia. i went to the hershey factory. >> i really don't care to understand, but -- >> the nice thing about having a fourth hour is you can send people away so they can report back in the fourth hour. >> exactly. >> i need you to explain to me how you, given the roots that you have that i know of all the time -- my mother is from alabama. we talk about alabama, florida, georgia, mississippi. how anyone could think you don't understand the people there and what trump was appealing to. i think you do understand it, which is why you're so vocal. you are them. i was confused. that's why i rushed to the studio. >> thank you.

the crazy thing is i couldn't go to church back in the '90s when i was a member of congress without people coming up to me going, when are you going to do something about bill clinton? morality. if there's not morality in the white house then fill in the blank. it's all i heard. >> you had to go to church three days a week. >> three days a week? you did not grow up in my parents' family. it was sunday school, training union, tuesday night bible study, wednesday night, friday night, family night. >> exactly. >> i'm doing the best i can. getting there. saved by grace. >> thank god for grace. >> thank god for grace! and that's all we have for today

on "morning joe." so charlotte, you have come at a perfect time. >> yes, she has. >> we have been asking, first of all what in the world is going on with this election. i still am fairly bullish on joe biden for a number of reasons. but you actually talked about a turnaround plan. tell us what does that turnaround plan look like? >> there's obviously been a lot of tough numbers out there for joe biden, but they do have a plan to turn it around. they have a huge cash advantage. they're running against the historically unpopular opponent, and they have a lot to run on. they're finally starting to deploy that money in key states to try to actually get this reelection campaign really started. the problem that we found, my

two colleagues and i in this "time" cover story is that a lot of critics are nervous this is a little bit too little too late. obama had 900 staffers. biden had 70 dedicated to his reelection campaign. there is still a sense from a lot of people that he has not gotten up and at them and taken this election seriously. >> what did your reporting find? >> i think there's a lot of confidence. there's a lot of overconfidence coming from the biden camp, the sense that he's already the only guy who's ever beaten donald trump in a presidential election. i think there's a sense that what worked last time will work this time. our reporting shows that's not necessarily clear that the same exact strategy will work this

time that worked last time. the country is different. a lot has changed. biden's standing among the coalition of voters that elected him in 2020 has significantly eroded. you know, there's a lot of room for him to improve. it's not insurmountable but people are concerned that the campaign doesn't quite seem to be taking this as seriously as it needs to. young voters have soured on him. voters of color are souring on him. remember, trump doesn't need to outright win these voters to win the election. he just needs to run up his margins, and right now he's doing that. >> when i spent time in the white house, i do come away with a feeling of confidence.

they have a real feeling of confidence. some people say it's overconfidence, but they're constantly saying calm down, everything in time, we have a massive cash advantage, we know what we're doing. we're going to roll this out. do you pick up the same thing that charlotte did in her reporting and i did when i go in there? >> i absolutely pick up the same thing you pick up and charlotte picks up. i tell them their confidence is misplaced. >> so you think they're too confident? >> i think they're absolutely too confident. >> some people have called you -- >> hardest working man in show business. >> but i didn't get paid like james brown.

anyway, i'm talking to real people from church people to street people that come to my rallies or call the show, and i'm hearing more ambivalence to questioning than i am kfblg with as someone who doesn't want to see trump. i really think they have to have an aggressive move to really get their message out to connect to people what they're doing and to connect to some of the active people on the ground. just having politicians validating other politicians, people don't trust that. you have to give people what they are not expecting from regular democratic politicians that are out there for the people saying they're not that bad. i keep telling them that. >> you've focused a great deal on persuading and the persuaders

and how they move people in the direction they need to be moved in this campaign. what's your take on where we are right now? >> one of the core things that works in persuasion is having a deep, acute understanding of what's going on with the people you're trying to persuade. you are hearing like ant ring l. the confirmation comes from a place that sometimes when we're doing the right thing and we're up against something that's truly barbaric, it's easy to get smug, because you feel like it should be enough to do the right thing. i think there's two things they're missing. one is the deep inner life of the country right now is full of anxiety and fear. that is across groups. people of color drifting towards

trump, they're not attracted to white supremacy. they're anxious. they're afraid. there's a lot of men. it's an era of dramatic change. some of that is progress people are scared of. white people afraid of being born in a 90% white country that's becoming a different country. it is normal to be anxious about change. but this has been an era of head-spinning change on so many fronts, from technology to the rise of china. one day you manufacture furniture in north carolina. the other day no one manufactures furniture in north carolina. we're changing the meaning of being a man. we're changing the racial makeup of the country very fast. i think there's an organizing challenge the biden campaign and democrats more broadly and

outside groups need to really think about to speak to the people you're hearing from that go beyond here's this issue, here's this piece of legislation, but like what are people feeling, why are people so anxious and angry and on edge? it is usually deeper stuff. the stuff around masculimasculit is men not having a good sense of themselves. that is the most dangerous stuff in politics. it's the most easily weaponized stuff. >> you've just talked about what the biden campaign was worried about in '20 and again in 2024. if there is a loss among people of color, a lot of it has to do with black men, hispanic men

saying, don't tell me who i have to vote for, don't tell me i have to vote for a democrat, don't tell me i can't vote for that trump guy. again, i think it's really oversold in the media. if you look at the numbers in '20, it wasn't as dramatic of a falloff. but it is an issue. you're not going to persuade the people i grew up, but you do need to bring your core base home. talk about that challenge, especially with black men and hispanic men, what's happening there. >> i think anand is right. when i talk to regular people every day, they do not want to feel like they're being talked to like they're ill-informed or

stupid. a lot of the surrogates are saying, well, you don't understand we did this, that or the other. they don't get past the "you don't understand." says to them you're silly, you're stupid. when you talk in beltway language, people outside the beltway don't understand it, don't trust it, don't want to deal with it. i think that's the resentment you're talking about with black men and hispanic men, is that you are talking to me like i'm a little boy, so i don't hear the rest of what you're saying. what you're saying may be true, but i shut down when i feel like you're condescending. that's why they need to have people that can communicate to people that are not out of the beltway that can talk that talk. that's why i always say latte liberals, a guy drinking $6

latte can't go to fulton street in brooklyn and explain the economic woes of our time. >> speaking of the economic woes, if you asked anybody here five years ago what can be done to address some of the problems with masculimasculinity, one th would be talking about is jobs, domestic jobs, manufacturing jobs, good jobs for people, many of them mostly men. the thing is that joe biden has delivered that with the bipartisan infrastructure bill, with the chips act. many of his accomplishments are delivering some of these jobs that make men feel like men. the problem is that so far they have not been that effective in communicating that these new jobs are coming from the biden administration. one of the things that we found in our reporting, particularly in arizona, is that there are several major semiconductor plants being built in arizona, a

crucial swing state, thanks to the $52 billion of chips funding the biden administration delivered. 25% of voters credit the biden administration for these dollars. >> that is a crazy thing. the white house is so frustrated with the fact that they've got really good economic numbers. they have legislation passed like this. they're just not getting credit for it. >> right. >> that's not me saying it or you saying it. you look at the polls, and they're not getting credit for it. >> there were many people who say they don't know who's responsible for these new semiconductor plants coming to arizona than people who said it was the biden administration. i'm talking to democrats in some of these swing districts saying where are the signs in front of the bipartisan infrastructure projects that are being built.

>> where are the signs? you work in the white house and you don't work on the campaign, so we're not going to ask you about campaign strategy. but i think we can ask you about the things that joe biden has done and the fact that a lot of americans just aren't aware of all the legislation passed, all the bills signed into law and the all the lives impacted by it. >> in terms of the signs, i can tell you if you were with us in chandler, arizona, this week, you would have seen a big sign saying a semiconductor factory is being built as a result of the president's chips and sciences law. there's big signs saying that the president's dollars that he got through congress are the reason these things passed.

we have a huge communications opportunity after the president's san antonio address. he talked about the 15 million jobs created, more than any other president, inflation coming down by two-thirds over the past year, 16 million new small businesses created across the country, the most ever. >> how frustrating is it for you personally that you've got these numbers? and the numbers are extraordinary if you compare them not only to our allies in europe, but people who consider themselves to be our enemies in beijing and moscow. the numbers are over the top great compared to most other countries across the world. >> there's no doubt that here in the united states we've seen the strongest economic recovery of anywhere on the planet and

certainly one of the fastest coming out of what could have been a very significant, very long-term recession if the president didn't make the policy decisions he did, passing things like the american rescue plan. we've come out of a difficult time, a pandemic, a global supply chain crisis. the president put in motion this recovery. i heard you all talking about the obama/biden reelect in 2012 and comparisons to that. i was the press secretary for that effort. i was sitting in chicago. the moment we're at right now reminds me of that moment where you spend a year reconnecting with your supporters across the country, and starting with the state of the union address you have the chance to make your case to the country. in 2020, the number one television show voters watched was "the bachelor." people are busy in their lives. they're not watching news throughout the day. [indiscernible] >> every nfl game.

>> i think you're out of 300 million households from the last numbers that i saw. the president is taking his case on the road. he's been to arizona and michigan and wisconsin and georgia and new hampshire and nevada and texas. he's making his case about his record, what he's done, his plan for the future, lowering the cost of housing, for example, building these semiconductor plants. he's in big settings and small settings, sitting down with a family in saginaw, michigan, talking about their daily lives. it's going to be a big year. no one at the campaign takes anything for granted. the president certainly doing multiple events a day talking to key constituencies. he called into black radio this week. he sat down with the largest spanish speaking television network. that's the pace at which he's attacking these things. >> we look back on 2012 and see how this story that was written

that romney was basically disqualified by may, that the obama administration did such a good job there. but i remember the meltdown after the cleveland debate. it was over. romney was going to win. i remember the gallup poll that came out before the election that romney had an 11-point lead. i remember the romneys late into the night knowing they were going to win, not believing what they were seeing on the screen. i remember karl rove going these numbers just aren't right. even on election night, people were saying obama was going to lose that race, and he got a majority. we don't know. >> we've been focusing on the role of emotions in this election. it's clearly a fraught moment in the life of the country. one of the eight symmetries i'm

curious to ask you about, the right is incredibly good at making people feel things around often very bogus things. something like critical race theory can be ginned up in a way where it's on the lips of tens of millions of people who don't know what it is, but feel affected by it. >> what about those high school trans athletes who are coming to eat your children? >> places far away from the border are made to feel anxiety that is not rooted in reality. i'm not suggesting that you do that. it is a tougher challenge to make people feel things, not just know things, but feel things around worthy, actual things like semiconductor plants or infrastructure. can you talk about that asymmetry and if you think there's an opportunity for democrats to do better at not just telling people important, smart policy things, but making

them feel stuff? >> i think one thing the president is doing is talking about the importance of preserving our democracy and the fact that there are more threats to it right now and more threats to national unity than there have been at any time since the civil war. how you just talked about it, you talk about the fact that maga republicans really make their case based on fear and foils, whether it's the foil of the immigrants, whether the former president calls mexicans murderers and rapists or talks about poisoning the blood of our country, one of the reasons it's so important that we have president biden is he's never going to do that. he's going to make the case to our better angels. i think there are a lot of people out there across the country, whether democrats or republicans or independents, who care about preserving our democracy, care about preserving our institutions, our alliances, like the nato alliance.

all those things are at risk right now because of the drift of the republican party since former president trump was in office, and the president is really a bulwark to defend that democracy and defend those institutions. so emotion certainly plays a role here, and we've got to communicate an environment that recognizes some of these tropes and foils, you know, do scare people. >> all right. white house communications director ben labolt, thank you so much. i love that you painted a sign, planted it in arizona and getting the message out. appreciate it. >> thanks, joe. appreciate it. >> there's an ongoing debate about fear. trump uses fear. should the biden campaign focus

on scaring people even more about trump than i think they should be scared right now? it's fear versus the better angels. did you get a sense which way the campaign was breaking? >> i think the campaign is really kind of going at both of those things. i think that they think and i do think there is some truth to this, that a lot of people have sort of forgotten about trump in the four years since he's been president. there are people who are following his every move, every aspect of his trials, every single beat of his legal problems, and then there are a lot of people who have just kind of forgotten about him. i think a huge part of their strategy is going to be reminding people of what america was like under donald trump. there's a huge amount of fear that comes with that strategy. another major element of their strategy is talking a lot about

reproductive rights. vice president kamala harris just became the first sitting vice president to visit an abortion clinic recently. so the fear of losing that bodily autonomy, we've already seen that in the 2022 midterms and in several abortion referenda going really well for democrats. i think that is something they're certainly going to lean into. but also joe biden does have this record of, as he did in 2020, running on sort of restoring the soul of the nation. he's not trying to paint a picture of gloom and doom and american carnage in the way that trump did in his campaign. he's trying to remind people of the enormous stakes in this election for our democracy, for reproductive rights, for the economy while also giving them something to vote for, not just against. >> i am struck in talking about reproductive rights and democracy by how in '22 everybody made fun of joe biden,

everybody made fun of democrats for leading with those two issues. and it ended up that actually they mattered. they mattered to a lot of americans. they mattered not only to democrats and not only to people on the left, but they mattered to people in the center, some people on the right. those two issues really packed a political punch in '22 and in '23. >> i think going to 2024, what the democrats have to do is paint what trump will be. we talk about democracy and the abstract. you have to ask questions like, do you think trump will be responsible for a national ban on abortion? do you think trump, if putin gave him $20 million, would let him invade poland? do you think trump will put people in jail that disagree

with him? do you think trump will create a national register for people who are x? i don't know if they truly understand how dark it can be. put that out there and at the same time put a much chirpier image for biden out there. a little morning in america versus nighttime in america, if you will. >> thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. a lot still to get to. coming up on "morning joe," henry lewis gates will join us. he's here to talk about his new book entitled "the black box, writing the race," which goes through the cultural contribution from black american writers. we're back in two minutes. write. we're back in two minutes. there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. how about bogo 50% off footlongs?

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occupation, school superintendent, grammar school, salary 350. >> yep. >> evelyn burton, age 28, pearl b. burton, father negro age 60, birthplace arkansas, occupation superintendent junior high. >> your just met your great grandfather. >> yeah. >> pearl b. burton. he and your grandfather worked in education. >> both school superintendents. >> both father and son school superintendents. >> one for grammar school, the other for junior high school. >> how does that make you feel? >> it fills me with great pride that i have inherited this mantle of educator. >> you come from educators on both sides. >> that's very cool.

i'm very proud of that. >> this is really cool. that was a clip from the pbs series "finding your roots," which is amazing. host henry lewis gates jr. helps actor levar burton learn about his family's incredible contribution to his community, which had been lost to history. that is a major theme that gates addresses in his new book entitled "the black box, writing the race." the "new york times" best-selling author joins us now. in explaining the title of the book, you right in part this, "we know all too well what the search for the black box, the flight recorder sadly signifies in the event of a crash. that device preserves a record

of the truth amid disastrous circumstances. it is what survives. the black box, in other words, is something whose internal workings we can't know about, but whose output we can see, touch, hear or see. while we can determine inputs and measure outputs we can have no way to determine how these outputs are produced. i find this a useful tool for thinking about the nature of the world people of african descent have created in this country and how this world has been seen and not seen from people outside of it from people unable to fathom its workings inside. with that, i ask you to open the black box and tell us what you're able to reveal. >> when i was an undergraduate at yale, our campus was full of

idealogical bullies, someone trying to tell you how to be black, that there was only one way to be black, black muslims and black panthers and black cutural nationalists. i swore if i ever grew up and was in a position of power, i would let students know this was crap. the black box is composed of the lectures that i gave for 20 years in my introduction to african-american studies class at harvard. it was structured around all the debates black people have had since the day we got off the boat in virginia in 1619 about how the hell we get out of here, because i wanted them to show that there never was one way to be black. the last sentence of my last lecture in class is, if there are 47 million

african-americans, there are 47 million ways to be black. never let anyone bully you and tell you that there's only one way to be black. >> it reminds me, my oldest son said you need to see "american fiction," which was the clip looks hilarious. i've got to see it. it looks like a movie about how white people see black people and what they expect from black people to sort of align with their own prejudice. >> precisely. when we got off the boats, we were dumped in the black box, a world apart, a world separated from the white world by a veil. they could not see us, but we could see them.

what they did in that box is dump all the stereotypes, fanlt fantasies, paranoid assertions, accusing us of being subhuman, created by god to be slaves. that's what the black is beautiful movement was about in the '60s, trying to shed all of the ways that the systems of racism made us hate ourselves, our color, our hair texture, our features. and so we grew afros. we had maybe went a bit overboard. >> come on. we all remember. >> even i had an afro. i tell my students because they can't believe it. >> part of what probably united

a lot of us was that we all faced common racism, but it deceived a lot of the public into feeling we weren't diverse. >> right. >> that's something every black american has to deal with. talk about how important this displacement is when we find out who we are connected to. i was telling you when somebody just went back two generations and i want to go back more than that in my life, i find out my great grandfather was owned by a guy by the name of alexander sharpton and we were named after our owners. i don't know my name. i know the name of who owned by great grandfather. it's that struggle that we all had to deal with the same discrimination and we were never

differentiated between what our different style or culture habits or whatever. >> all you have to do is go to a black barbershop to see how diverse the black community is. the black community is essential ly conservative on a lot of issues, as any minister knows, premarital sex, abortion. we're radical when it comes to racism. so that's where the stereotype of us being all on the left came from. but when you talk about ancestry, every black person whose ancestry i've ever traced swears that they have a lot of native american ancestry. they bring in photographs. my great, great grandmother has high cheekbones and straight black hair. when we do their dna, guess what? they have .08% native american

ancestry and 24% white ancestry. the major dna companies have virtually never tested a black person, no matter how typically african they might appear, who was 100% black. isn't that amazing? that is one of the biggest surprises in all the time i've been doing "finding your roots". >> this book is so beautiful because it really intersects african-american literature to the struggle for freedom and the different camps of literature and how those camps were. you talk about free speech also and how propaganda was used to suppress the black freedom struggle. what do you think of all of the authors you talk about in the book, who do you think was the most significant? >> that's tough, because i'm a professor of literature.

it's like choosing among your children. richard wright wrote "native son." i just taught on tuesday "their eyes were watching." it's a classic love story. richard wright thought she was salacious because she represents a woman coming into her own sexuality, choosing her own lover. she thought richard wright was a dull and boring idealogue. they hated each other. in 1966 we became black in stead of negro. and then jesse jackson declared

us african-americans. i give the kids a chapter in the book. i read out these letters to the editor to "the liberator" newspaper. one said we should no longer be africans, because initially our institutions were called african, like the african methodist episcopal church. then i tell them all of these opinions were written between 1831 and 1845, that we have been debating how to get out of the black box for over 200 years. >> it's such an honor to have

you here. i did not realize we'd have you here and it would be like a class reunion. we have two of your students. >> anand was my student and charlotte was my student. i'm proud of them. i'm pleased to say they both got a's. >> rev, you have given the professor the right to go back a lot further than two generations. >> oh yeah. i want you to do my family history now and i want you to come on "morning joe," no matter how disappointed i may be and say who i am. >> you've got a deal.

i have been chasing him since 2019. >> you're not the only one chasing him. [ laughter ] >> and you agreed too. >> i did. but i do not want the results on the show, because our family's been in the south for 400 years. no. i'd love to. that would be a great honor. i love watching you do that on the show. it's just so moving. >> i love it. i think one of the reasons it's so popular is it allows us to discover new family relationships, both in the past and in the present. in the past, through our ancestors. when you hit 50, you start experiencing feelings of loss, your parents are gone, your friends are aging. you start to worry about, you know, longevity. but when you your family tree, you start to realize you have all these other ancestors you can get to know. in the process, you can get to know new relatives through dna

cousins. people who share long segments of your dna descend from common ant see can'ts. it's very exciting. >> the older i get, the more -- i have a lot of pictures of the kids up, but i'll take some pictures of the kids down and put up pictures of my grandma in 1910 in front of a shack in rural georgia. it gives people a sense of who they are, where they came from. >> and we've developed a curriculum

not inner-city, but impoverished white kids need as well. if you go to history class, and we say, today's lesson is family tree. we will teach you how to use the archives on the federal census to build your own family tree. go to the science teacher and spit in a test tube. while we wait for the results, teach them about the double helix, how dna works. who would not be interested in that? do you know why it will be successful boon to learning? what is your favorite subject? it is usually yourself. that is what ancestry tracing is all about. the new book is titled the black box, writing the race, harvard university professor, it has been so great. thank you so much. he's apologized to your people that are now going to rush you to your next event. i enjoyed it.

it was so great having you here. thank you. okay, the united nations security council has failed to adopt a cease-fire resolution that was introduced by the u.s.. the majority voted in favor of the measure, russia and china issued a veto. the resolution called for an immediate and sustained cease- fire on the war in gaza, saying it is imperative to protect civilians and ensure more aid can be delivered to the enclave. this is the strongest language the white house has supported so far. the vote comes as secretary of state is in tel aviv right now meeting with israeli leaders, including the prime minister. it has been 5.5 months since the terror attack on israel that killed 1200 people. about 130, the approximate number of hostages that remain in captivity by hamas and are believed to be held in

deplorable conditions with little food, fresh air, or sunlight. activists recently sat down with a 40-year-old jewelry designer that was captured by hamas terrorists at the supernova music festival last year. she was released on november 29 and has decided to speak out now about her kidnapping and her 54 days in captivity. take a look. i cannot even imagine being taken, what that moment was like. they make the kidnap? we just kept walking. we heard some screaming. and i'm with a broken leg. i kept walking. and again, nothing. i'm screaming help, but nobody is there. all of my friends are gone. and then i hear screaming. it was louder. they ran towards me.

there were 13 arabs, and now i am in a car with three arabs in the baggage and four arabs in the backseat and three arabs in the front seat, and i am on top of them. >> oh my god. they make by myself. it was a crazy feeling. all i can do it myself, you probably are going to be , and you probably are going to be killed. and don't resist. and then we entered gaza. and i will not this picks forget this picture. the entrance to gaza is like a huge arena. and everybody is screaming and happy and everything is chaotic . and by the time they start to hear the screaming in the car, and the guys in the car are getting really you know, happy. because they brought a prize. as they make their showing you off to everyone. is it meant they were pulling my hair and punching my head.

by that time, i felt somebody is trying to pull my leg outside and i felt like pipes into my legs and beatings in the head, inside the car. and they called to the hamas to come and take me. i was wearing green pants, like army pants. but fashion. and i wore army boots. and then i realized they thought they caught a soldier. because they kept us we where i served. >> oh my god. >> yeah. >> she joins us now, she is a cofounder of the nonprofit organization, i am a boater. i do want to ask more about that interview. how is she doing now? why did she decide to come out with her story? i'm sure it is re-traumatizing within itself.

>> yeah, thank you so much for sharing her story. i was so taken aback by how unbelievably brave and courageous this woman is. we talked about how open she is. there was this feeling of, there is a person in front of me, and i can see her body, but her entire spirit, mind, and heart, is still in gaza. she just kept saying, i am not here, i can't be here. my friends are still there. she is is very strong, maternal instinct of, i was there for 54 days and it was the worst conditions you could imagine. is three times as long and they are not okay, they are not okay. they cannot survive. we have to get them back. i think she is doing everything she possibly can to bring as much attention as you can to the conditions. it has been over five months. we have hostages from 40 different nationalities that are still being held being

tortured, starved, sexually assaulted, denied medical care. it is not a political issue. this is a humanitarian issue. she is just try to do everything that she can to bring her friends home. >> what did she say, given her own experience, what is happening to these hostages, physically and mentally? is she at all optimistic that they will ever come home? >> you know, i think she talked a lot about the intentional, psychological warfare that they conduct. how much they tried to break you and tell you your family is not coming for you, your country is not coming for you. they tease you with water and taken away. they tell you every day that everyone is going to kill you. obviously, she experienced the assaults that other women experience there. i think she is very, very worried.

we have all of these conversations about a cease-fire , but there is not a party in hamas that is willing to have those conversations right now. again, we can talk about it all day long, but a cease-fire is bilateral. at the end of the day, when you have a terrorist organization that keeps saying they will repeat this over and over again, they are not showing up or releasing the hostages. the whole thing is predicated on the hostages being returned. it defies all logic to not continue to demand that these innocent hostages are returned and the terrorist organization that took them to renters, so we can have a lasting cease- fire. >> you can watch the entire interview on her instagram and you two pages. thank you for the work you are doing on every level. we appreciate you so much. thank you for being on this morning. that does it for us this morning. josi picks up the coverage in

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