present. my medical team, therefore, advised i should undergo a course of preventative chemotherapy and i'm now in the early stages of that treatment. this, of course, came as a huge shock, and william and i have been doing everything we can to process and manage this privately for the sake of our young family. as you can imagine, this has taken time. it has taken me time to recover from major surgery in order to start my treatment, but most importantly it's taken time to share everything with george, charlotte and louis to reassure them that i'm going 0 be okay. i am well and getting stronger every day by focusing on things that will help me heal in mind, body and spirits. having william by my side is a great source of comfort and reassurance, too. as is the love, support and kindness that has been shown by so many of you.

it means so much to us both. we hope that you'll understand that as a family we need time, space and privacy while i complete my treatment. my work has always brought me a deep sense of joy and i look forward to being back when i'm able. but for now, i must focus on making a full recovery. at this time i also am thinking of all those whose lives have been affected by cancer. for everyone facing this disease, in whatever for me, please, do not lose faith or hope. you are not alone. >> middleton is by far the most popular royal and her condition has been the subject of intense global scrutiny for months. in january the palace announced she had younder gone abdominal surgery and would be spending the next three months in rest. when initially asked if it was cancer the palace said, no. her absence and lack of

information about her condition fueled major speculation from wild conspiracy theories to more. the royal family experienced a lot of tumult in the past few years, about the flight of harry and meghan, accusations of racism within the family, death of queen elizabeth, cancer diagnosis of charles in january. now with the news of kate, how does the british public react? outside of buckingham palace and former chief content officer for hurst magazine. the news out just over an hour. what has reaction been? >> reporter: a lot of sympathy. this is absolutely taken this country and certainly the world by shock. this is very unexpected, and i can tell you that twitter is now flooding with condolences for

the princess. as you mentioned, we have been seeing so many conspiracy theories, so many rumors swirling around from her absence. certainly much of that being fueled after we saw the first photo since that abdominal surgery for the uk mother's day, of course, ap then said was killed because that photo was altered at the source. that, of course, started a lot of speculation about her whereabouts. now we are seeing a nation really coming together around the future queen with condolences and sympathies for her. i mean, at the end of the day we're talking about a mother of three young children who had to break down what she's experiencing to them. we're also seeing kensington palace in many ways drawing a red line here. putting this information out. we saw her. he heard her from her own mouth exactly what she's dealing with as a way of trying to stop the conspiracy theories and to really give the princess of wales and her family the privacy

that she desperately asks for trying to make, in her own words, this full recovery. will we see her out in the public again? it's possible. eager to get back to work, she said, but her focus now is on a full recovery. the palace also saying we will not expect to see her at easter services next weekend with her family as we typically do. they're not giving details on what type of cancer. how long she has been receiving the treatment. how long she will continue to receive this preventative chemotherapy treatment. but, again, the big takeaway here is that she is dealing with cancer, and that the family is asking the world for privacy. >> meagan fitzgerald reporting from london. thank you. joanna, do we have a sense of timing? why announce this now? why release this video today? >> a great question. of course, our thoughts and prayers are very much with the duchess or the princess of

wales, i should say. extraordinary statement from her, actually. but i mean, terrible press management frankly by kensington palace. you know, the reason she's being forced to make this statement now is because of the absence of any information and the growing mob cries of "where is the princess" the insane conspiracy theories, when, in fact, all that's happened, and it's very sad, she's been diagnosed with cancer. why not tell us that? why not let people get on with her recovery, which is 100% her priority, and everybody would leave her alone, but this sort of refusal to admit what the people clearly could see, people could clearly see there was something odd, and not quite right here. and that delay in telling people felt unrealistic and naive, and has sort of built to this strange climax this week.

i think people are genuinely devastated. as meagan said she's a very popular member of the royal family. they've devastated for william and explains why he didn't turn up for his godfather's funeral on the ground he had a personal issue he needed to attend to. so i think that got by kensington palace but you can put that behind now and focus on kate's recovery. >> just like the king not saying what type of cancer, what stage, where she is exactly in her treatment. there's still some vagueness surrounding what exactly is going on. is this announcement, though, her sitting on this bench and telling the country and world shae cancer, asking for privacy in this time, mentioning the fact she has three small children she has to manage as well through this. is that going to be enough to stop the questions?

will she now get the privacy that she is asking for? >> well, of course, the police said yesterday, three people in questioning for potential taking of her medical records from the london clinic, which has been another concern. so that was obviously another reason that prompted this, the statement today. i thought the statement was very reassuring. she's sitting on a nice park bench. spring around her indicating sort of a re-birth. she said that she was reassuring her children that she was going to be okay. it's preventative chemo. but it's definitely cancer. so unclear where we go from here. a i'm sure that the tabloids will continue to be respectful. they have been pretty respectful. of course, because we don't know what kind of cancer it is there will be endless speculation online. we know she had abdominal

surgery, serious abdominal surgery in january. i think the thing everybody is wrestling with is that the abdominal surgery in january and then they said she would take three months off. everybody was thinking, well, three months is a long time, even for a very serious abdominal surgery. now the questions will be, when did they know she had cancer and how long before they told people? >> hang on a second. bring in a doctor joining us, ceo of american cancer society. karen knudsen. can you tell us what you can make out of what princess kate was telling us pap preventative chemotherapy. what does that mean? >> we assume linked to the abdominal surgery she had and can take away from that, that chemotherapy after the surgical intervention is intended to take care of any remaining cancer that may have lingered

post-surgery. so this is a way to improve survival. data shows it's a way to, even early stage cancers can benefit from chemotherapy after surgery. >> i know you aren't treating her and can't speak with specificity, but can you talk about cancers linked to abdominal surgery? >> a number of things that we speculate about, again, path forward, that path forward will depend on what kind of kansas ter is. one can think about early stage of ovarian cancer, a potential. she's 42. expect that to be a relative low-range cancer, for which chemotherapy is warranted. another cancer type comes to mind colorectal cancer. increasingly in the united states and other industrialized countries seeing a rise in colon cancer at a younger age.

it's my understanding she's 42. that, again, quite young, but not out of the realm of possibility. important to remember as well there are cancers identified sometimes in abdominal area, the tract, difficult to ascribe where the cancer actually came from. we just don't know what we're dealing with yet. when we know, the path will become clear. >> what can you, can you give any sense of why there is such a rise in colon rectal cancer? we don't know if this is what she has. seeing reports of this. younger and younger people coming down with this. do we know what the cause is? >> so we have seen this trend unfortunately over the last several years of a rise and early onset of colorectal cancer in younger generations, and it is the case that right now in the united states first colonoscopy for risks is age 25. now seeing people diagnosed even

before that early age. we know that the current risk factors still apply. to this earlier generation getting colorectal cancer but there must be something more and we need to investigate what's different about this generation and why colorectal cancer is happening at such an earlier age. >> we don't know this is the type of cancer princess kate has, but it's worth acknowledging there has been a striking rises in that particular cancer and linked to abdominal surgery. doctor, thank you very much. joanna, stick by. taking a very short break and back to the kate news but also major breaking news out of moscow. russia's foreign minister says "a bloody terrorist attack is taking place inside a multilevel concert hall." this is serious. don't go anywhere. e.

following another breaking story out of moscow.

russia's foreign ministry says a e "bloody terrorist attack is taking place inside a multilevel conser hall" as i said. photos showing the music hall engulfed in flames and rush's prosecutor general saying men dress in the camouflage broke into the building and started shooting. let's get to nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley following developments from london. what do we know right now? >> reporter: yeah. what we're hearing from moscow news report from russia, between two to five gunman stormed into a crowded concert hall not only shooting up the place and kill as now many as more than a dozen probably 14. that number is probably going to be going up. they also detonated explosives. you can see, start add huge fire. this caused a lot of authorities to evacuate hundreds of people and so far we don't know who did it and who claimed responsibility for the fate of the perpetrators. hearing from john kirby, from the white house saying no evidence so far that ukraine had anything to do with this.

the russians are now asking for the entire world to condemn these attacks. now, there is as we heard from the white house just now a lot of division within russia. this is something we're seeing on the political level. recent elections that were widely slammed as being essentially fraudulent and so this is, it's opened up a lot of ruptures within russian society already quite sensitive because of the ongoing war in ukraine. so as authorities go about the business of trying to figure out who did this attack, a lot of speculation certainly going to be falling on the ukrainians. same time this will raise a lot of memories of what happened back in moscow back in 2002, an attack, a hostage situation. involving a lot of children on a theater in moscow. that was perpetrated by the chechens. chechen terrorists at the time. a very, very bloody mass cher.

massacre. something appears in a lot of domestic political discussions as time goes on. trying to hear more and more people discussing the war. >> matt, trying to figure what this concert hall is. looks like it's a venue kind of like the, the met here in new york city, or carnegie hall. a proper concert hall with a stage and tiered seating. from video that appears to be posted from the actual incident that you can see on russian social media, it's pretty scary, and there are a lot of folks inside. a lot of folks that appear to be trapped. is it, do we know if authorities have been able to, to catch the gunmen? is the shooting still ongoing? >> reporter: that's something i'm going to have to get back to you on. i don't actually know. it's still somewhat ongoing that this is really just, just happened. so we're still getting a lot of

details. already hearing statements from public officials demanding, well, asking for sympathy from the rest of the world. so this is something that, you talk about whether or not it's ongoing. certainly the police operation trying to figure out who perpetrated this attack is only just beginning. that could be quite an invasive and quite disruptive effort to try to find out who did this. we know now, the russian security state is growing stronger and stronger as its been enlisted to crush dissent against vladimir putin and against the war in ukraine. >> there was, was an election a few days ago. matt bradley, thank you very much. go to nbc news national security analyst clint watts. what can you tell us about initial stages of this? >> definitely confusion. especially on social media. a lot of blame going around. katy, i can think of four or more different scenarios who perpetrators might be. rewind several different years. a few things to think about.

over the last few weeks islamic state terrorists arrested. you might remember back as mentioned the terror attack some 20 years ago. islamic terrorism always something. certainly navalny was, died in prison. . believed killed in prison. just a month ago right at the kickoff of the munich security forum. that comes alongside the fact that the presidential election in russia just happened over the last week. obviously, including, no doubt about it. pair that, putin won. compare it with prigozhin, there to take that movement back after losing lots of soldiers then had the march on moscow from rostov last year. he then killed mysteriously, bombing on an aircraft a plane. combine that with the battle going on in ukraine. you see now there's just many, many scenarios. i'm not really seeing much

information yet to point us in what direction might be coming from. >> only a couple videos able to show you now. others are out there and our teams are working to verify them. we don't want to bring you anything on this channel not fully verified. we know in this situations as breaking news happens, sometimes there are dupes out there from earlier events, or artificially, artificial intelligence created images. we want to make sure we have everything that is legit before the we bring it to you, but there are a lot of videos out there. russian media, clint, now reporting 40 dead. russian media also reporting the roof of the concert hall might be in jeopardy of caving in. you see the fire. in terms of this sort of thing happening in russia before, does the ukraine war right now -- also there's scuffles on the ukrainian/russian border with russian separatists.

>> right, katy. really it couldn't get more complex in terms of dimensions of this. you have veterans coming back into the country. some who are not particularly happy with being drafted or having to go to the front lines. combine that with what's known as the russian partisan. essentially russians inside ukraine fighting against russia, part of a partisan movement. and that a time you see ukraine doing more and more cross-border attacks with drones or missiles. just an extremely dynamic situation. it's really hard to know this early on. by the way, this is a place where information doesn't flow as freely as other parts of the world. russians have ability to monitor and interfere or change things. so we always have to really, really take our time trying to understand the information sources that we're looking at coming out of moscow. >> i am having problems with my earpiece. clint, not quite sure if you've

stopped talking. control room, check it out. appears to be doing tests next hour in my ear and hopefully can figure out interference with my earpiece. we'll take a very short break and back in a couple seconds. don't go anywhere. ♪♪ missing out on the things you love because of asthma? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur.

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we have our technical

2ki689 problems corrected. talking about a so-called terrorist attack according to the russian foreign ministry in moscow. at a concert hall. russian media reporting 40 dead. they say there are 70 ambulances on-scene. the roof of this concert hall, which is akin to carnegie hall here in new york or the metropolitan opera what it looks like inside. the roof is in danger of collapsing right now. this place is on fire in addition to the mass casualty event and many shooters inside. according to russian media. clint, i think people would initially wonder if ukrainians might be responsible for this. again, it's very early. no confirmation about who these gunmen may be, but what can you tell us about the context right now in russia and ukraine? >> yeah, katy. most will probably think just the context of russia versus ukraine. there have been ukrainian

strikes, drone strikes, you know, over the border in recent weeks, but i think it's important to remember there's, i can think of at least four or more different scenarios all with potential perpetrators just think back a month ago. you saw alexei navalny who died in prison. most believe killed in prison, by vladimir putin, and vladimir putin just having another uncontested election for the most part. going on his sixth term. many people are quite upset about navalny and his deng and death and advocates for democracy in russia, they call it. and several events unfolding with yevgeny prigozhin and the mercenaries essentially pushed into ukraine, fought in back mood. bakhmut bakhmut. died mysteriously months later

in a plane crash. those upset with putin and his regime. combine with veterans drafted, come back, forced to fight in ukraine, seeing a staggering number of casualties on the battlefield. could be another group. islamist terror attacks based around chechnya. a high number of recruits to afghanistan. one, two, three, four different scenarios. getting a sense initial evidence and information would really have to go with a lot of caution particularly, because this is moscow and state media oftentimes have a narrative they want to push that isn't necessarily reflective of the facts. >> obviously it's very early and these things take time to

confirm. sometimes people take responsibility immediately. even nen you need to take time they are telling the truth. addressing the attacks at the white house during a press briefing. called it a terrible, terrible shooting attack. images are horrible and just hard to watch and our thoughts obviously are with the victims. added the u.s. embassy notified to avoid large concerts, shopping malls et cetera and concerns for safety. the concert hall according to nbc news had a max capacity of 9,527 people. booking sites say it was sold out for a rock concert. a band called picnic. jim, bring you in this. what are your initial thoughts? >> well, clint is spot-on. i think all of us in law enforcement and analysts who watch this constantly and watches war in ukraine every

day. we don't really go to, like, ukraine. because ukraine, if you watch the targets recently on russian soil, it's all logistics. all military targets. they hit, you know, military airports. they hit fuel depots, targeted on military targets and then get a lot of advice from nato, the u.s., that they should be doing that. how they'll hurt the war effort. president zelenskyy said they are not interested in killing civilians opinion they're suffering that fate in ukraine. you can't say it wasn't them, but just be totally out of character to anything they've done before to attack a large civilian gathering like this. it gives them no military benefit, but what clint just briefly said.

prigozhins faction, their encampment in ukraine attacked by the russian military just trier to prigozhin launching that drive on moscow, which then petered out. there actually attacked by the russian military. a lot of disaffected mercenaries there who are fighters and killers. of course, the chechens always come to mind, because the 2002 concert hall attack. i mean all of us in the business followed that closely. there was hostages for three days. maybe 150, 200 people killed. the speznas went in, wound up killing most of the people with a gas. a total fiasco but that was chechen separatists. a lot swirling around inside russia that it could be, certainly could be islamists. like al qaeda or isis. could be chechens. could certainly be wagner

mercenaries. the fourth thing to close, on the russian border with ukraine recently, russian separatist groups formed into little companies and brigades of soldiers that are totally russian soldiers, russian citizens. attack russia on the border in russia. they're not ukrainians. they can get shelter in ukraine and ukraine will give them a little shelter but ukraine is not directing their activities. they go into russian soil, been attacking near belleagro in. last few weeks getting stronger, stronger, fighting and want to over overthrow the putin regime. so much going on in russia. the fire looks devastating. could be arson set by terrorists or even exploded bombs that set the fire. the fire looks very high, moving very fast. it could have been accelerated. >> navalny's wife posted

something on x getting it translated to see what she said. there is a lot of reports that are flying from russian media outlets. people talking about what was actually inside. three gunman came in in camouflage, nbc news is reporting, according to these local reports, incendiary bombs being thrown inside the russian concert hall. russian officials are now saying that their main effort as we speak is to save the lives of those who remain. when you look at the fire in the distance, looks like it's going to be pretty tough. looks like that entire concert hall may be engulfed in flames right now. certainly a scary situation. i mean, jim and clint, talking about this sort of thing happening before 2002, with chechens taking hostages. have you ever seen it go down like this? where gunmen go in and then light a venue entirely on fire?

>> no. i really can't think of something like this. katy, it's quite different from other tearist acts that you've seen. usually might try to take hostages. based on initial reports, which seem to indicate a small cell. three to five people possibly. i've seen a couple videos. you don't really know what to make of it. seems unusual that the automatic, you know, process trying to go through set fire to an entire hall. a rather curious operation and makes me just wonder, looking at it from a terrorist perspective, if we've not heard a claim of responsibility. we would hear a claim of responsibility. this is definitely, seems more like a type of attack trying to make a statement. you know? doesn't seem targeted against a specific individual or set of people, whereas we would see that maybe in a more directed attack. just like jim mentioned with the ukrainian attacks. been going after oil refineries, transportation nodes, after military assets.

for the most part. trying to hit intelligence headquarters. in crimea saw them strike the russian navy headquarters. seems odd that this target was picked. so leads you to believe that there might be some sort of group trying to make a statement. i'm curious if in the coming hours or by tomorrow we do hear some or the of claim or responsibility. >> and yulia navalny said wishes of recovery to the injure. everyone involved in the crime must be found and held accountable. bring in former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc news international affairs answer lift. michael, your first thoughts? >> honestly i don't have many first thoughts. watching and living to you all. i haven't had a chance to look at any reporting yet. i would remind you, just talking how we had these kind of attacks

before in russia. there was one back in 2002 where a theater, similar kind of attack was done. those were chechens. but beyond that, unless you tell me over the air if you have any new reporting about this -- >> here's -- i don't vi, certainly don't have reporting who did it. what we have reporting on is 40 dead. according to russian media. 100 injured at least. the russians are saying that they're actively trying to save more lives. you see in the distance that building is engulfed in flames. video from inside of the concert hall appears to show at least three gunmen firing point-blank at some concertgoers and others huddle behind seats. you can see people crawling across the stage of this concert hall to try to get out of there. reminds me of the beacon theater here in new york. carnegie hall. a pretty standard concert hall

you would see in any major city. were you tell us a little about the venue and where it is in moscow? ambassador? >> yeah. i can. i've been there. on the outskirts of moscow. pretty sure it's where the miss universal pageant was by the way when mr. trump was there in 2013, when i was ambassador. why i remember that. the person who owns that is a famous russian entrepreneur and you're right. exactly right. describing exactly what it is. one of the major venues for big concerts in moscow. very popular place. and you know, i just want to underscore, like, i, too -- this is tragic. this is horrible. in my view there's no, ever, reason for terrorist acts. i do know that as i'm looking at my phone as we talk there are lots of speculation about different kind of groups and remind you just a couple of days ago there were these russian

paramilitary groups that allegedly were in russia. they were posting on the borders of ukraine/russia and they were coming to liberate russia. i'll be curious to see and watch their sites if they're going to claim responsibility for this, but now i'm really speculating and i don't have any information. >> it's unclear whether they would have their eyes set on a bunch of bystanders at a concert hall. again, we don't know who's responsible for this and i appreciate ambassador underscoring that as welling. we're go to wait. it will take time to do so. the russian foreign minister, though, or spokesperson for the russian foreign minister is not ruling out ukraine. they're publicly saying that the white house shouldn't rule out ukraine or ukrainians involved in this terrorist attack, and moscow, i think it's important to discuss the very least the climate right now. i mean, russia is waging war on

ukraine, and -- >> yes. >> politically i don't think it would be surprising for them to blame ukrainians for their narrative. and i don't know if it is ukrainians. not speculating who actually did it but i think we are likely to hear something like that. am i wrong about that, michael? >> no, you're not. exactly right. and i was just speaking in kyiv online. why i was, haven't read the news at the kyiv security forum. i was online. most people were in-person. and in that crowd they were talking about russian terrorist attacks in ukraine every single day. including on their capitol, just last night. and many americans attending that conference in-person spent several hours in the bunker last night. and so it is important to remember that from the ukrainian perspective and it's a perspective i share, they are at literally, there is literally terrorist attacks on innocent civilians in ukraine every

single day and when things like this happen they think maybe ted for phat? -- tit-for-tat and we have no evidence. >> and bring in white house chief correspondent peter baker. also a -- the chief of the moscow bureau for the "new york times" for many years. in watching this unfold, what are your first thoughts? >> well, i'm reminded of our time actually when we were in moscow when there was a lot of terrorism there. i was at a theater when 900 people were taken hostage by terrorists and the government's response through pumping in a chemical to decapitate the hostage-takers, 130 hostages dieing. in 2004 at a school taken hostage and again 330 people. half school children. russia has a history with terrorism that has nothing to do with ukraine.

there's a longstanding tension in russia that's gone back years in terms of ethnic niche with regard to caucuses. don't want to speculate, obviously and it will take time to sort it out but not surprised moscow would point to ukraine. it's not in keeping what ukraine has been doing in terms of hitting back at russia. they're using drones -- drone strikes and so forth. that kind of attack. doesn't seem in keeping with their pattern. >> at a concert hall, it's partially collapsing. again, 9,500 or so people is the capacity of this concert hall. booking sites show it sold out. a rock band call the picnic supposed to play.

not in russia, but reminded of the terrorist attack at the nightclub in paris about ten years ago now. a similar circumstance. it's a weekend evening, gunmen go in, start shooting people point-blank. peter, this sort of terrorism is certainly not new, but still shocking when it does occur. >> terribly shocking, and particularly shocking, i think, because it has been a few years since moscow has seen this kind of terrorism. we saw beginning of 2000s, petered out after the chechen war basically settled. got settled. it will of course wake up a lot of muscovites to whatever this new threat might be. to the younger muscovites and a horrific event regardless of your politics, regardless what country you're talking about. you mentioned the paris nightclub. the pulse nightclub of course in the united states, in orlando. i think of the concert that was

held in israel on october 7th, and targeting civilians literally there just trying to have a good time and enjoy life. seems, you know, one of those hoar risk types of terrorism out there. no a military target. not a target of the state. have a disagreement with the state. it's an individuals just living their lives and striking literally terror in hearts of the city. >> i want to go back to the ambassador. curious. what do you think vladimir putin might be thinking right now? >> well, as peter remember sfrom his time when these other terrorist attacks occurred in the later '90s and early 2000s, there were many terrorist attacks including in moscow. and putin's response was usually categorical and didn't care about losing civilian lives. he went in big, in a retaliatory

response. once they know who it is, that's what i would predict. that he, he showed brutal force in 2002 and again in 2004 and that's what i predict they will do once they know who the terrorists were. >> russia, by the way, recognizes and monitors more than 14,000 people and entities designated they say as extremists and terrorists ranging from al qaeda to meta, the company, to the late navalny. today by the way added lgbt movement to that according to state media. michael, are you sure we'll ever know from the russian side who did this? will they be hon effort report honest reporting who did it. i'm not sure. a famous terrorist attack in 1999, to this day a lot of mystery over who actually did it. that it set of terrorist

attacks, by the way, in 1999 was how putin rose to power. he was prime minister at the time and it was his strong response to that that helped to make him a popular figure inside russia. so like many things in russia, we'll probably never know all of the exact details, but i suspect we'll have a story from the kremlin about what they believe it was pretty soon. >> all right. gentlemen, take a very short break and come back to this on the other side. there's also breaking news about kate middleton and her cancer diagnosis. do not go anywhere. you're watching msnbc. ing msnb. ♪ [cat meow] —is she? letting her imagination run wild even though she has allergies. yeah. the right age for neutrogena® retinol? that's whenever you want it to be. it has derm-proven retinol that targets vital cell turnover, evens skin tone, and smooths fine lines.

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still on this breaking news out of russia. that is the crocus hall. the music hall that is currently on fire. russian media, the tass organization reporting the roof is partially collapsing as we speak. what we know, it appears three gunman, russians calling them terrorists entered this concert hall shooting on their way in and inside the hall killing multiple people. at least 40 people are dead. 100 injured. that number is likely to go up. it is a massive emergency scene around this concert hall as you can see by the sheer number of blinking lights out there. a number of ambulances. the russians have said that they're number one task right now is to make sure that they get more survivors. joining the conversation

founding partner and washington correspondent of puck news and one of our favorite russian guests knows a lot about the country, julia. the spokesperson for ukraine's military and intelligence agency called the shooting a deliberate provocation of the putin regime, which the international community warned about. what do you make about that coming from the ukrainians? >> there's a lot of blame going around right now when we know the least who is behind this. you remember used to liberal darling who led russia through the re-set under president obama, said if ukraine is behind this, then they deserve a massive retaliation, he said. a death for a death. people are pointing fingers all over the place, but we don't know a lot. we've also seen the ukraine government come out and say they have nothing to do with this. so, the white house has echoed this and said they have not seen

any evidence suggesting that the government in kyiv has any connection to this attack. but maria, who is the spokesperson for the russian foreign ministry, has shot back and said you don't know anything. it could be the ukrainians and i see a lot of friends and people i follow on social media in russia talking about how this might be, in fact, a provocation by the russian security services, ambassador mcfaul mentioned that the 1999 terrorist attacks on residential buildings in moscow where hundreds people were killed in their sleep when these residential buildings exploded in the middle of the night, that is how putin came to power and it has been a long standing theory that putin and the fsu were actually behind the attacks and that he used them to crack down and seize power. a lot of people don't believe that theory until putin didn't go into ukraine two years ago. so of course, a lot of people

are now deeply suspicious, people who don't approve of the putin government or what he's doing are now deeply suspicious and think that this might be yet another -- whether the russian government is ibd had this or not, it is a pretext to close the borders and call up a massive mobilization which putin has been loathe to do and crack down on any remaining freedoms. >> and again we don't know who is behind this and i appreciate the insight into what people are speculating about. i wonder, though, when you talk about how the russian government might use this, this tragedy to their advantage, i mean, when we've seen incidents in the past that have happened within russia, vladimir putin has gone harder on ukraine, used it to strike harder on ukraine. >> that absolutely might happen which is why i mentioned when dimitri mentioned, who is an id

for the hawks in russia, why i mentioned what he said. but in general, as ambassador mcfaul mentioned, every time that there have been a taste attack in russia, there have been many of them, the response has not been an enlightened one and not just counter-terrorism operations in the predominantly northern caucus of russia but a crack down against whatever civil liberty oz democratic rights, whoever is behind the attacks, the kremlin tends to use them to crack down and tighten the screws, not to loose ebb them. >> peter, is that you're experience when you were reporting from there? >> absolutely. and as julia just said, the problem in a russia is that -- is that so many things that may sound farfetched or conspiracies, are true or found

plausible enough that it does raise the question of whether we'll ever know. there will be people that blame the russian government and other people who will blame ukraine and blame chechens or the united states because the united states had the warning issued by the embassy a few days ago. and it is an open question of whether there will be enough information that will convince that many people. and you mentioned the carpet bombing from ambassador mccaul, my wife and i have been doing investigation, how many people doubted at the time that the bombings were the work of the government, it was outrageous to think so, have changed their minds, that they have become more open to that idea. so it is a culture and a society where suspicion is plentiful and hard facts are hard to find. >> what about the timing of this, peter? this is only a few days after the election. >> it does, yes. and therefore, people may make a

connection that obviously he won the election, such as it was, an election that wasn't really an election and you need this in order to boost his political standing at this point. but, you know, could it be used as a predicate for a crackdown as julia said or increased escalation in ukraine, of course. and that is -- we're in the early stages of this right now. we're just staring at the horrific images and thinking about the people that lost their lives but there is a political subtext to this and the question is whether or not this will lead to something much worse. >> michael, let me ask about sentiment within russia. we saw the election, vladimir putin won overwhelmingly. does this sort of thing help him or does it hurt him? i know you might use it to crack down as julie and peter have been saying. but does it show more vulnerability in the russia

psyche? what does it do? >> well, just as we don't know and we may never know who did this attack, we don't know if vladimir putin won overwhelmingly. i want to underscore how hard it is to know anything factually out of russia today. because they don't want us to know facts and they chase our journalists out. but secondly, there is already, in my feed, you just saw julia and i have similar feeds, there are two kinds of reactions. one is outrage and we feed to deal with the terrorists and go on the offensive and kill them. and two, there are a lot of russians already blaming ukraine without any facts. and three, there are others saying, why are we so vulnerable? you know, these are more liberal minded people. but why are we wasting our time fighting a war in ukraine, if security threats are really here. you mentioned before the break, all of the crazy ideas about who is a terrorist, right.

why aren't they chasing the real terrorists. that is a sentiment you see at least on my social media channels coming out of russia today. so, yes, publicly, of course, the news controlled by putin will all be about there is horrible and we're going to find revenge, but there is this subtext going on that maybe we're not taking care of our oeb while chasing around alleged lgbt activists who are also on the terrorist list. >> and the information war has gr -- has begun. and ukraine certainly has nothing to do with the shootings and explosions an the crocus city hall. it makes no sense whatsoever. understanding that people are going to try to blame them, if not individuals within russia, the russian government. what are you expecting to see in terms of messaging out of the

russian government, out of russian state media, julia? >> so far, russian state media has stuck with the programming we've seen tonight. share entertainment. and we've seen in happen before, because it is so tielgtly controlled from the top when something breaking like this happens, it is completely unexpected and it takes them a few hours generally to get their messaging ducks in a row and figure out what they're talking points are and distribute them to the various channels, et cetera. so, so far what most russians are seeing if they're not in telegram, they're seek russian knockoffs of other entertainment products. but i think mike is right. and what i'm thinking of, in seeing this, is st it is just five days after the election with putin shows that he is completely in control, he's

eliminated all opposition and cracking down on any kind of dissent and this is -- i can't think of a bigger show of weakness and i worry what he will do and what the messaging around that is going to be in response to something that looks so weak and makes russia look so vul ferable. i worry that it is going to be very over the top. >> that is a good point. i just want to end this with before we toss it over to "deadline reuters said they have a witness, we heard gushes and at first we didn't understand what happened and i personally saw how the terrorists came in started shooting everyone. in the end they through a molotov. everything was set on fire. we were led to the exit. turned out the exit was locked. we ran all over crocus city hall trying to find an exit but to no avail. we went to the basement of the crocus city hall and waited for the emergency services. and got out. we do know that emergency services were able to rescue a

number of people from the basement and it seems like this person was one of them. what we know right now, is that there are 40 dead and at the city hall. the crocus city hall has a campus of 9500 at most, perhaps even less. there was a concert there tonight but the band picnic, it was sole out. we're waiting to get more information about who might have been responsible and the ultimate death toll. do not go anywhere. "deadline: white house" will pick up this breaking news right now. hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 here in new york, i'm alicia mendendez here for nicolle wallace. still developing at this hour, a chilling situation unfolding in moscow. there was a terror attack across multiple venue in the russian capital including a shopping mall and a concert