basement and it seems like this person was one of them. what we know right now, is that there are 40 dead and at the city hall. the crocus city hall has a campus of 9500 at most, perhaps even less. there was a concert there tonight but the band picnic, it was sole out. we're waiting to get more information about who might have been responsible and the ultimate death toll. do not go anywhere. "deadline: white house" will pick up this breaking news right now. hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 here in new york, i'm alicia mendendez here for nicolle wallace. still developing at this hour, a chilling situation unfolding in moscow. there was a terror attack across multiple venue in the russian capital including a shopping mall and a concert venue.

armed gunman in combat fatigues stormed the city building where a concert was taking place before opening fire on spectators. russia state news agencies say 40 people are dead and 100 more are injured. the roof of the concert hall which is engulfed in flames is in risk of collapse. russia sent out a bulletin warning that extremists in russia had a plan to target large plans in moscow including concerts. let's bring in senior national security analyst john brennan. director, thank you so much for being with us. this is of course a developing situation. you could give our audience any understanding of the climate in russia right now? >> well, unfortunately, moscow is not a -- known to terrorist events. over the course of the past couple of decades moscow has been the scene of some terrorist

attacks by different groups. and so this was taking place at a large gathering which is why i think the early reports are the high number of dead and wounded. it appears as though, this was some type of coordinated attack carried out by a group that had clearly planned this in advance. and the fact that the u.s. embassy issued this warning about extremists having plans to carry out attacks, i think it demonstrates that there was concern earlier that some groups might be carrying out these attacks. now, i think it is quite early to speculate who might be responsible for this. but the russians have had a past of dealing rather brutally with terrorists who engage in those type of attacks. when there were a large number of hostages taken previously and

whether it be at schools or at theaters, the ballet, the russians have dealt rather severely and the response frequently has led to a large number of civilian casualties and casualties of hostages that were taken by terrorist groups. so i'm sure that there is a whole effort on the part of the russian security services and forces to secure these areas, isolate the terrorists and then to deal with them, i think, again, rather directly and if not brutally. >> director, to talk about the the warning that those in russia had imminent plans to target russia just two weeks ago. you could pull back the curtain and give us the type of traffic and noise that leads to that type of bulletin being issued? >> well, first to extremists which could refer to any number

of groups, but when somebody like this is issued, it is the result of some reliable information that has come in either from human sources or from intercepted communications and probably not just a single source, but something that has been corroborated which is why they went out with that public warning. singling out extremists being prepared to carry out the attacks. so this is something that the united states government, the biden administration, state department would have been working with the intelligence community because they determined that the information or intelligence was of sufficient specificity as well as reliability that led them to issue that warning. also, it is been my experience, that if the u.s. intelligence had information like this before terrorist attacks takes place in moscow, russia, it would have been shared to some degree with

russian authorities as well. despite the fact that we are at odds with russia over a variety of issues, if there was some type of terrorist threat information, that we believe that was important to get to the russian authorities, we would have done that. >> director brennan, that is retroactive that would have led to the bulletin. you could talk me through what american intelligence is doing now? >> well, they're clearly going to be combing any intelligence that they might be obtaining now. and trying to find out exactly, again, who was responsible for this. again, there are a variety of technical means and human means. i know that the president of ukraine, president zelenskyy has come out disavowing any type of formal ukrainian involvement. i do not believe that the president zelenskyy and the ukrainians would have been behind something like that, that

very specifically targeted civilians. so i'm sure that the u.s. intelligence community is working to try to find out what is going on. the concern is that this might be part of not just a coordinating effort that took place just now, but also whether or not this might be a part of a plan, a series of attacks, some other attacks might be coming forward. so i think u.s. intelligence is most interested in finding out and uncovering whether or not there are some other attacks that are currently planned that if information is obtained on them, we might be able to stop them. >> director brennon, understanding that this is a developing and fluid situation, understanding we do not want to be speculative, but by way of understanding, sort of full picture here, you could talk us through the groups within russia that could just simply pull off an attack of this scale? >> well, when the russians were involved in a lot of the

fighting in the caucuses, in chechnya and other areas, there were a number of groups that grew out of that conflict and carried the fight then to the streets of moscow. it is possible that with the fighting that is going on if ukraine now, there could be individuals who have decided to take matters upon themselves and to carry it out. but clearly there is a fair amount of dissension within russia itself. there are russians who are launching attacks in the western part of russia, near the border with ukraine against russian targets and russian authorities. so, there could be some domestic groups that could have been motivated because they are disgusted with what the putin regime continues to do inside of ukraine. there could be russians who are upset at the continued suppression that the russian regime is engaged in against

domestic opponents. we had the recent death of alexi navalny. so there are a variety of groups and individuals who have their own reasons and motivations why they might decide to carry out something like this. it is quite unfortunate that it was directed against a number of civilians and the number of dead and injured now is growing. >> director brennan, i want to bring in nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley, this is a developing situation. what could you tell us? what is the latest? >> reporter: well it sounds like from the task news agency that at least 40 people were killed and at least 100 people were injured. and rescue efforts continue. we don't know a whole lot about the situation. the big question is who perpetrated this? was it a terrorist group, was it ukrainians, dissidents opposed

to vladimir putin in elections that were widely considered to be manipulated and fraudulent. so there are all sorts of people that could be behind this and including the chechens, where they took hostage at a theater in moscow and resulting in the deaths of more than a hundred people. nearly 200 people including fight a few children. this was a big disaster and one that is going to be in the minds of a lot of moscow-its. and they're looking for some sort of political motive behind this and we haven't heard someone coming out and claiming responsibility. we don't know if the between two to five gunman who entered there wearing camouflage and they had bombs that deployed and starting that fire that you see on your screen and we could assume there was an incendiary device because that building is burning. this is a situation that is

going to start a massive sweeping crackdown in russia, a country that we've already seen does not book dissent, not against vladimir putin or the war in ukraine. so this is probably going to start a new phase and in what we've been seeing in the political crackdown throughout the country and we could probably expect that would start very soon because we've already seen a lot of a lack of sim -- lack of sympathy. >> we're going to add in peter baker. a former moscow bureau chief as well. talk to me about the timing of this in relation to the recent presidential election? >> well, of course, we just had the election last week and it wasn't much of a election. we shouldn't call it that. it was an stage event in which president putin's term was ratified in what no one thinks is a free and fair contest. for it to happen a few days

afterwards is striking in a couple of ways. one, if he had done something like this, or if it would have been happened before the election, it would have been used as a reason to re-elect him. a way of showing that only he has a strong hand. but this happened after the election, as julie said in the last hour, does seem to indicate a potential attempt to show his weakness. to make him look like he's not -- >> peter baker, i think -- >> -- now for some 25 years. yeah. >> you're going in and out, peter. so i'm going to try to get your aud yes fixed and while i work on that, i'm going to go back to direct your brennan on this same question, which is the timing of the attack. questions that are raises for you director brennan? >> well, i don't any who was behind this and what their particular motivations were. but as pointed in the aftermath

of this sham election, that putin staged in order to retain power there, in the aftermath of alexei navalny's death, as the continued onslaught in ukraine continues, there are a variety of groups or individuals who may feel that they needed to carry out or decided to carry out this attack. so, it is usually these operations take place when the operational planning has been completed. and so i know a lot of times people talk about coinciding with an anniversary, but the most important factor is to make sure they have the people in place and the material available, that they've done the surveillance and the casing and this they've timed it in a manner in order to optimize what their objectives are. clearly this was designed to cause death and destruction at

these sites inside of moscow. so, therefore, i think, again, there is so much to know and i'm sure the russian authorities are doing everything possible, i think as was just mentioned, doing sweeps in the city, against a suspected individual who might be involved in something like this, either individuals who are associated in some way with ukraine or with distant groups or with some of the groups in the caucus, but, again, mr. putin, has a variety of enemies. he has suppressed and killed individuals over the course of many, many years. and therefore it is unsurprising in some respects that such terrorist attacks take place. but he has championed himself as someone who is able to protect the security of the russian citizens and this clearly just blasts a hole in that image that vladimir putin is able to ensure

that the citizens of moscow are going to be insolated from these types of violent attacks. >> peter baker, i think we have your audio back so i want to give you nun opportunity to pick up where we left off but also to layer in the question of the implications for russia, of course, and the implications for putin but also the implications for globally in. >> yeah, i mean the implications are still unknown. there are two questions. one, who did this and, two, who does the putin government want to blame for doing this. those are not the same thing. and it really is an open question that, at this point, as director brennan talked about. there is a history of terrorists going back, to the early putin reign, i was outside and the theater when terrorists took about 800 and some theater-goers hostage and about 170 people were killed in the rescue operation and i was in best

lawn, when terrorists took a school hostage and a similar shootout and 330 deaths, something like that, half of them school children. so for a lot of older russians, there are real flash backs to the past. does that mean that this is an off chute of the chechens, because some would expect, that is what was going on years ago, but that war has been settled for a long time and there hasn't been that kind of unrest in the region that would suggest this kind of an outbreak of violence in quite sometime. so it really depending on who putin discovers has done it and who he wants to blame for it and use to their advantage or to retaliate against to show his toughness. >> and debending on how makes that calculation, what type of response could we expect, peter? >> well, look, after the hostage

seizure in 2004, days afterwards putin canceled the election of governors. across all of russia, not just in the area where it happened and not just once, but permanently. that is the end of democracy when it came to the election of governors in russia. why? he never really fully explained. he said the threat of terrorism means i need to get rid of these democratic elections. and so you could see how from that pattern he uses events like this to eliminate even further the few freedoms that may be left in russia today. that is one thing that i think a lot of people would be worried about right now. >> all right. our thanks to matt bradley and director john brennan and peter baker. we'll continue to monitor the situation as it develops. and when we come back, breaking news, catherine, the princess of wales diagnosed with cancer. we're going live to the buckingham palace with the latest. and plus the disgraced ex president has to find half a

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or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. so i'm committed to golo for life. kate middleton, the wife of the future king, announced this afternoon that she was recently diagnosed with cancer and in the process of undertaking what she called a course of preventative chemotherapy. in a few moment we'll let her speak for herself but understand how we got here. the back drop of the announcement, a world wind of commentary an conspiracy

theories related to her withdrawal from the public eye following abdominal surgery in jan. for a month voices have made a mockery of her disappearance. here is princess kate. >> in january i underwent major abdominal surgery in london and at the time it was thought my condition was noncancerous. the surgery was successful but tests found cancer had been present. my medical team therefore advised that i should undergo a course of preventative chemotherapy and i'm now in the early stages of that treatment. this is came as a huge shock and william and i have been doing everything to manage it privately for the sake of our young family. as you could imagine, this is taken time and it is taken me time to recover from major surgery in order to start my treatment. but most importantly, it is

taken us time to explain everything to george, charlotte and louie in a way that is appropriate for them and to reassure them that i'm going to be okay. >> what princess kate did not identify the type of cancer or what stage, but grappling with such a diagnosis is a difficult thing for anyone, royal family or otherwise, especially when you have children. more than a million families in the united states go through this exact situation every single year. joining us now, nbc news foreign correspondent megan fitzgerald at buckingham palace and dr. kavita patel and from bbc studios and msnbc contributor katty kay. what is the latest where you are at buckyham palace? >> well this is absolutely devastating news that have sent shock waves across the united kingdom. we're seeing the outpour of

support and love for the princess of wales on social media platforms. this is a certainly a brave announcement and shocking as well to see the princess of wales come forward and explaining what her absence has been for. because she is undergoing this preventative treatment for cancer. now kensington palace is being tight lipped about the particular form of cancer. they're not saying much about that or how long the treatments will be lasting for. we do know that she has been undergoing preventative chemotherapy since february and now the palace is coming out now with this video. we're all expecting to see the princess of wales on easter with her family as we do each year. the palace said you will not see her this easter. the family will not be attending service. also, a lot of care around the fact that she has three young

children. she said in the video they had to take time to explain to her young children what is going on, and that she is going to be okay. it just so happens that the kids are out of school for the easter holiday and the vacation break and they didn't want the children to have to be in school when this news is announced. and also as you mentioned, we have seen over the last several weeks and months the conspiracy theories fuelling the rumors. so in many ways this is the palace drawing a red line and coming out with the information of where she has been and what she has been dealing with and i think one of big takeaways here as we're seeing the princess of wales, the beloved member of the royal family, asking the public for some privacy as she tries to make a full recovery here. >> and i do want to talk about that news and information in just a moment. but before we get there, dr. patel, princess kate did not

specify the type of cancer. explain to us what the early stages are like following diagnosis? >> yeah, i think it is important to remember that there is so much that stops when someone hears the word cancer and that is appropriate and i think the palace is being rightful in saying this is a private affair. in the early stages of cancer, this type of chemotherapy, this preventative is really to help lower any risk of future or recurrence of any kind of answer. so these early stages, with chemotherapy, there could be subtle side effects and resources it address any of the other needs. she has endless resources, we know that. but if you're dealing with this and ahave a diagnosis, mental health and support for the family and the caregiver, all of those things are being brought to bear in the early stages. because we don't know, on average the chemotherapy regiments could last weeks to months and that is -- the fact

that she's out of the public eye is she's dealing with that. symptoms could worsen with time as the regimen intensifying. so nobody wants to have this diagnosis. nobody wants it on this public stage. but i think i will say, i commend her for also giving service to the diagnosis and treatment and screening and all of the millions of people with cancer and hopefully someone listening today will get screens an treated and we could prevent cancers from happening. >> dr. patel, help me understand, though, what they knew when they say preventative chemo. i'm still unclear that that means. >> yeah, it could be confusing because when we think about prevention, we think not having cancer at all. we know she has a cancer diagnosis. this is again without knowing the specific cancer, the fact that it is preventative means that they found a cancer and they removed every spot of cancer, from the surgery. but in order to prevent or

minimize any chances of a recurrence, it is becoming common to use this kind of preventative chemotherapy regimen. now a lot of that is done in conjunction with the doctor's decision making with the patient and their family. but it is becoming something that for many cancers we do recommend this, depending on the type of cancer, so, again, one could speculation we're not going to but the preventative part is why i think she's -- this is going to take time and she's highlighting that that is why she's out of the public eye most likely. >> and katy, there was so much attention on this story whenever it was that the princess resurfaced. i think there was going to be' collective gasp, but this news has seemed to hit particularly hard? >> yeah, you hope that all of the people that have been spreading conspiracy theories and a form of kind of a bullying, really, kate online and on social media sites are now having a rethink because

this is a woman who is dealing with something that acts so many people. and if the end of the video, the princess said that she was aware that so many other people were beginning to get diagnosis like in and other families are dealing with cancer like her family and to remind them to keep faith and they are not alone and they said that and the king said how proud he is of katherine for coming out and saying that she has cancer. this is a blow to the royal family. if you think how they have been slimmed down. this idea of working royals just in the last couple of years, it is the king and queen anne the -- the king and queen battling cancer so this is an enormous responsibility as well as making sure that the princess gets the care and priv asy and the support from her husband that she needs. >> megan, what are you hearing about the family more broadly?

>> yeah, well, it is a really good point. we have been seeing both queen camilla along with prince william making public appearances. and it is a heavy load to carry because we know just how busy and how far in advance people have booked having the presence of members of the royal family. so we are seeing already the work load that prince william is undergoing right now. but now we have more perspective. now we know that not only is he dealing with all of the engagements that he needed to do, but he's got to have a father dealing with cancer and now he has his wife along with three other little children as well on his plate. so a lot that he's juggling here. but i could tell you, like i said just from looking at social media, there is certainly a lot of shock in this country and an outpouring of support.

even hearing some remorse for people who were believing those conspiracy theories now taking a look at themselves and realizing that there is more that needs to meet the eye there and that is what kensington palace is hoping for releasing this video hearing directly from the princess of wales. >> i want to play more of what she said and then we'll talk about it on the other side. >> we hope that you'll understand that as a family, we now need some time, space and privacy while i complete my treatment. my work has always brought me a deep sense of joy and i look forward to being back when i'm able. but for now i must focus on making a full recovery. >> in a world where privacy is in -- increasingly different, and then fill the void and bully

these public people out of their privacy? >> yeah, i mean, there is some question about she started her treatment at the end of february. that was february the 27th is the day that prince william suddenly canceled a memorial service for his godfather at windsor castle and that produced a whole load of conspiracy theories and i think what the royal family has done now by releasing this video is throw some sunlight on the situation and hope that will diminish the conspiracy theories. and the best way to combat misinformation is to get the truth out there and now the royal family has done that in a way that is quite unusual and they'll have to hope that that means that she could now have this process of the treatment that she needs and the care that she needs that must have been very -- i've been told by people who are much closer to the royal family than i am and have better sources than i do, that she was stressed around embarrassed when

the photo was released and shown to have been edited and that william had been very supportive but she was embarrassed by that. so hopefully now there is a little bit back more backing off before the immediate judgment of social media. and that they will have, by explaining what the situation is, by being clear an transparent, they could regain the trust of the public and fill some of the void that tends to get so filled by conspiracy theorists on the social media platform. >> and dr. patel, especially because she has three little kids and trying to fieg out how to communicate this to mem in a way that is age appropriate, which anyone who has had these difficult conversations with a kid under 10, it is not an easy conversation to have. you want to be clear. wau nt to be direct. you also don't want to scare them. >> it is a complex personal situation to navigate to say nothing of the public element,

dr. patel? >> that is just kraerlly -- incredibly complex and these are children who will likely have a great deal of media headlines and exposure even if their just walking from school to a car. all of that is jut something that i couldn't even imagine and i know that that's probably why they wanted incredible privacy. i do think it is important to kind of say that this is a great example, that the often diagnosis of cancer, we do think about their entire family but support system, including support for them. so it is one of the many reasons that we wanted to make sure that with the affordable care act, that we're going through the anniversary of that this month, so we highlighted access to these services. so it comes full circle with the kinds things that we need for not just children, but anybody in the family. so this, believe it or not, it is all connected in how we could

make sure that we give that safety net to the family. not just the royal family, but to any family going through this. and i think that what gives many he hope is she looked healthy and emotional, but she's obviously before this diagnosis is healthy and that helps to get through the rigorous therapy that she's going through right now. >> it is connected and i appreciate you bringing us back to the access of support for community more generally. our thanks to you all. up next, we're going to turn to the heavy legal woes weighing on disgraced ex-president. he's facing a loom bond, it is his word versus that of his own lawyer who say he does not have the cash. thattory is next. s next now, th. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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i do my own searching. it isn't efficient. use kayak. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. aaaaaaaahhhh! kayak. search one and done. tick, tick, tick, the disgraced twice impeached four times indicted ex-president, will need to pony up half a billion dollars bond brought by letitia james. it would mean parting ways withun of his estates or golf buildings that he used. properties valued to be worth a fraction of what the trump organization claims they are

worth. with his republican billionaire parties not stepping up, that he doesn't like the optics of the declaring bankruptcy, and offer a brutal week of coverage of finances or lack there of, today trump claimed to have half a billion dollars in cash laying around, a money that he claimed is just laying around directly undercutting his own lawyers who have said in legal filings that trump did not have enough cash on hand to satisfy the half a million dollars judgment against him and now in a new interview donald trump is upping the ante yet again saying he will fight the judge's ruling up to the u.s. supreme court if necessary. trouble is bravado and bluster may not be able to wiggle on the deadline that is upon him now. >> let's bring in harry litman and reporter susan craig and

host of politics nation here on msnbc and president of the national action network, rev rand al sharpton. he's walking back this idea that he would spent some of the $500 million in cash on this saying this doesn't mean i'm going to a rogue and incompetent judge, meaning the judge engoran an they can't take away your property because -- before you have a chance to appeal. what is he talking about? >> he could try to fight it legally, but guess what, it is not up to him. if the -- the judgment was entered 30 days ago, tish james automatically has a piece of paper to go after his properties unless the court enters an if order before monday. so that is just the way it is. so it is not his call. but i do think that it redoubled

his resolve to do anything, anything rather than let tish james put the metaphoric lock on 40 wall street and that is something that we need to be concerned about. because there are possible scenes why a billionaire here or there steps up. we know he's trying to make that happen in the truth social ipo. but billionaires don't step up for free and it would result in a situation where a possible president is deeply beholden to someone who has gotten him out of the most perilous hot water. so that is something to watch because i think he's going to do anything short of letting tish james just have her choice of crown jewels. >> reverend sharpton, the point about tish james that harry makes. it has so many layers. tease it apart for us. the idea that it would be tish

james that would get to choose which building. >> the face that he would be facing a woman prosecutor, a black woman prosecutor, and one who had already debunked the whole trump university. i mean there is a lot of emotions that he has. none good. about tish james. and i think it will drive him to try to do anything he can, including -- i can't say sell his principles because i'm not one that believes he has many, but he'll do anything he can to do whatever he can to block this on monday. and he will also want to be dramatic. he wanted to look like he's pulling the rabbit out of his hat. he's a showman. but i think he'll find that the rules in court and the rules of law doesn't play along with w his scenario. this is not a reality show. this is reality. and i think that he -- even if he comes up with the money, he's

going to do it at such an expense to what is left of his business and the campaign and the republican party that either way it will be devastating and i think that tish james only makes it even worse for him because of his whole feelings about women in general, black women in particular. >> so he's still searching for the rabbit that he'll pull out of the hat. walk me through the different ways this could play out. >> he has turned it into a reality show and it is reality and we don't know if he's comed up with the $500 million and he plans to post it on monday and drag this drama out for the whole weekend. but what he's facing is real if he doesn't come up with it. and there is just questions, there is not only potential assets seizures that could take place, he has some cash in his bank accounts and they could be frozen and he may deal with a situation where he can't

payroll, meet the interest payments on his debt and pay their vendors. >> and then what happens. >> that is what we'll see. i think we're going to be writing a version of the obituary of the trump organization if she goes that way and starts to freeze cash. this is all new territory so we don't know. but it seems to reason if someone is going to start a seizure process, they're going to grab the most liquid thing which is the cash. that is why the assurity companies that he went to to put up the bond wanted cash for the same reason. cash is king. everybody would prefer cash over hard assets, especially some of the assets that he has, office towers, it is not a great time for that market. and that could do down the road, golf course is the same thing, they're harder to sell and you start to run into those problems and tish james has that mess. so that is what he's facing on

monday. but you also see today he's -- he's teasing out that he has the money and they went to the court on monday and said they didn't. we don't know what happened between monday and friday that changes that. but over time we'll get some clarity, i think this weekend is significant and there is still a chance that the appeals court could weigh in. something could happen late in the day on friday now but even monday. that is just something to watch. it is less likely that that will happen. >> i want to say a big wow. i didn't want to interrupt your train of thought there. but the possibility, writing the obituary of trump organization is meaningful as it relates to the trump political brand given how intimately they are connected. >> we don't know. but if she goes that route and if they can't start meeting payroll, it going to be -- that is not good for any company.

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about reducing your risk. ♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere. students in a new kind of classroom. ♪ using our technology to power different ways of learning. ♪ harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. ♪ so when minds grow, opportunities follow. we're back with harry litman and susan craig and rev al sharpton. and you made a argument that this is a reality show of his own invention. >> and it is. they're dragging it out for a week or two. tish james gave them a month to come up with it, but to find out

on monday, everybody's hair was on fire and that he went to all of the companies and couldn't get the band and everybody was -- the sky is falling and then friday morning we get a tweet saying, oh, wait i got the $500 million. we don't know what the weekend will look like and it is important when you don't know. but sometimes it feels like i've seen this show before and on monday he's going to post something and we don't know what that is going to look like, whether the cost court will accept it. it could be that it goes other way, but i can't imagine that that post on truth social that he put out this morning happened by accident. saying that i have it. >> right. >> and i want to say, rev. when he talks about the $500 million, he intended to use in his campaign for president and we've seen this before saying that he'll spend it on his campaign. we've heard that before. take a listen.

>> if i have to, i would. but we're doing very well. we need, did if we -- we have much more money than we have last time than going into the last two months. i think double and triple. but if we need any more, i would put it up perthly. >> how many are you talking about? >> whatever it takes. we have to win. >> and just to fact check, trump has not contributed to any of his own money since 2016 and since this time around that won't stop him, rev, from selling to his supporters the idea that he has that money and is willing to spend it. >> he's playing this brand all of his life, that he was the savvy businessman. he's the great gatsby in real life and it is always been a fraud and he's got to keep selling that to his base, his cult following. i think what he misunderstanding, he's reading

wrong, is the independent voters that he was trying to appeal to. he's already looking like a fraud. because if you had that kind of money, why didn't you say that on monday and your lawyers are filing papers. are you saying that the lawyers are lying to court. so the lawyers were to give his word, his own lawyers will suggest something cynical because if he pulls something on monday and as both of us think it may be his dramatic way of beating up on the attorney general and i beat them and dah dah dah, and the first question is how did he get the money because his lawyer said -- he's going to raise a lot of questions even if he comes up with the money. >> i think we also don't know what happens, both things could be true, we don't know what will happen between monday and this morning. maybe he came up with it in that period. but one of the lines that struck me in the monday filing was the discussion with chubb. because chubb had posted the

bond for e jean carroll so he had been given funds to back that. and in that, they said that chubb would not receive real estate. but they talked about there was weeks or an extended period of time where they were negotiating and so there was back and forth and i imagine some of that has continued with those firms. it may be chubb or another one. we don't know what happened between monday and friday. >> harry, i want to bring you back in here. talk about what is being called a potential windfall for trump, voting to take trump media public can could mean trump will own about 60% of the company worth about $3.3 billion. that trump could use to pay down his legal debts. does that kind of windfall arrive in time to address in current challenge? >> it wouldn't, unless the board for truth social votes.

but of course, they are in his pocket. the short story on here, is he would make truth social have an ipo that he said would be valued at $5 billion. and that is a joke. and you can't convert that into the bond, you need the benevolent billionaire and there is a possibility a republican will come forward to be that person to take the money on paper and use it as collateral to advantage the bond. but a couple of points to make. first, if it comes to it, and i think all three of us think it will not, that tish james is having her choice, many of the buildings already are deeply incumbered and it is not just valued less but she would have to stand in line. the second important point is to susan, even if it -- the

obituary might be writ because it could hollow out the businesses so much it would be like a shell where all of the pencils and furniture have been emptied. and then finally and this is an illustration, we're talking about this drama, you perils of pauline where he somehow, you know, escapes at the last moment, hooray for him. the better movie, i here, i think, is the man churyan candidate where they are beholden to somebody. be it a jeff jazz or a foreign figure or he's able to get out of the trouble at the cost of something we need to be worried about of his being deeply beholden to someone whose interest are with that billionaire and not the people of united states. >> you wanted to jump in? >> no, it is going to be a fascinating weekend and to just find out at the end if we do --

what sort of sunlight we get. >> real quick, we will get the sunlight. >> you're at a disadvantage not sitting at the table. >> we'll get the sunlight. that might be all we get but the monitor and the extra order that the judge just entered means barbara jones will know what he does. sorry. >> i keep reading it and i'm not a lawyer and thinking there is a work around and i brought it with me. but i'm going with harry on that. >> there was a question that i've never been able to figure out since monday. is where is jared? jared got $2 billion from the saudis. why doesn't his son-in-law lend him the money or figure out a way. and then what does jared owe the saudis? politically, this could be bad for him no matter how much he gets a dramatic ending, because people will start raising questions of what did you have to do to get the money and we

thought you had money all along. and let's not forget, when we talk about the verdict, and when we talk about the -- them having the eulogy or the obituary, he still has to face four criminal trials at federal and state. so he's not out of the woods. he has to come up with a lot of money for a long time. >> i have to go. thank you so much for being with us. and an update on the breaking news unfolding right now in moscow. the very latest right after this quick break. the very latest right after this quick break. (shouting) hi! need new glasses? it's buy one get one free at visionworks! (shouting) how can you see me squinting? (shouting) i can't! i'm just telling everyone! ...hey! see your tax refund go further with buy one get one free at visionworks. see the difference. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals,

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hi, again, everyone, it is 5:00 here in new york. i'm in for nicolle wallace. we're watching the breaking news out of mock ow where a shooting attack has left 40 dead and over 100 injured. they say several gunmen in combat fatigues burst into a concert hall and they also used explosives causing a massive fire at the crocus city hall. who committed in and why is very much unknown. the wife of alexei navalny said what a nightmare. condolencies to the families and those injures and hope everyone is found and held accountable. russia sent out a bulletin warning that extremists in russia had imminent plans to target large planning in mock ow including concerts and that is where we start with former u.s.

ambassador to russia and international affairs analyst michael mcfaul. and former consultant to the fbi counter-terrorism division, leader of microsoft threat center and msnbc national security analyst clint watts. there is still so much we still don't know about this. your first thoughts and figure that you have learned? >> well, my first thoughts are like julia, my condolences to those who lost love ones today. there is no excuse and that is my first reaction. my second reaction is i don't want to speculate who did it because we don't know. a lot of -- i like at my social media feed with a lot of russians on it and there is a lot of speculation but not definitive yet. and i would say the ukrainian government has made it clear they had nothing to do with this and that is consistent with the way they have been fighting

their war again russia. they do not do terrorist attacks against civilians. i wan to remind everyone that putin does. he attacks civilians in ukraine every day but their armed forces do not. and then finally, i am waiting to see what mr. putin said and his reaction because i've studies and lived in moscow from time to time when other terrorists attacks have happened and i expect there will be a massive retaliation from vladimir putin, once he could identify who the culprit is. or tell us who he thinks the culprit is, who he wants us to believe who the culprit is because we may never know who actually did this. >> and i want to loop back to the question of putin's response but first to you, clint, could you give us an understanding of the climate in russia right now? yeah. >> alicia, it is just a really dynamic scene when you look at two plus years after the invasion of ukraine and while if

you went as ambassador mcfaul said, if you went to russian social media feeds, the russians were out, the state media is quickly trying to blame ukraine but there are four or more different scenes and one of them being what you posted at the top of the segment, just in the last week russia has arrested some islamic state terrorists and that is been an enduring problem for last 20 years. i'd like to remind people that the largest number of foreign fighters to afghanistan, one of the top three was russia more recently in recent years. separate, from that, if you go back to chechnya, 10, 20 years ago, there was a major war and a lot of terrorism sprung from that noted mostly where they held children at one point in a major terrorist attack in 2004. but more prescient right now,

looking at the scenarios that are very close to home, last month you saw alexei navalny, he was -- he died in prison, most people think that putin caused his death. now you see putin's election, there is a lot of reason that we might look that direction as well. just domestically in terms of people that are upset with vladimir putin and russia. add to that, prigozhin, about nine months ago he tried to make a march toward moscow and he was killed months later in a mysterious explosion and they were mercenaries and they're also upset with the russian government and then the question of ukraine. while many claims have been made, you know, as ambassador mcfaul noted on a couple of other segments that we were on together, this does strike as a milt target and what you do see is that most of the ukrainian attacks have been against

military targets, transportation and oil fields in particular. so a lot of different scenarios and i'm not seeing any evidence that points to any one of those scenarios over another one at this point. >> ambassador mcfaul, he referenced the sham elections in russia and i wonder what you make of the timing of in -- of this attack in relation to the elections. >> i have no idea. i do know that putin from the very beginning with he first became prime minister, his claim to fame and made him popular is that he was tough on terrorism and the protector for the russians and there is questions about about a happened in those terrorist attacks in 1999. who was actually responsible for them? but there is no question that those terrorist attacks helped to catapult his political career as a tough guy on terrorism.

so, the political -- the government statements right now are saying, of course, we're going to find out who this is and find the culprits here. but other outside media channels, liberals living outside, they're asking the question if he's so tough on terrorism, why did this happen, why did they not listen to the american warnings just a couple of weeks ago. why are they declaring various ngo organizations, many of them terrorist groups including alex any navalny's group when they are not fighting actual terrorists. so there is a public reaction and a rally around the flag reaction as there always are when there is horrific events like this. but they're already beginning to point fingers why did mr. putin allow this to happen and it reminds me of the debate that you have in israel today, about the october 7th terrorist attacks in their country.

>> i got to ask you, clint, that bulletin, sent out two weeks ago, what type of chatter or information is it that you have intelligence following such that a bulletin like that is then issued? >> one of the key things that i think alicia, is that a place like russia where there are so many counter forces going at the same time. the war in ukraine and languishing but the persistent one across the last two decades has been terrorist action from islamic terrorist groups and it is interesting that that popped up. ip took notice of it, that the u.s. tate department would make note of that. and one of the key things that is interesting, despite the war in ukraine and everything before, is that there has been often times collaboration between the united states and many different countries to include russia regarding counter-terrorism. this stems back to the fight against the islamic state just a few years ago to al qaeda a

decade before. they would share signals. it was always risk of harm to life regardless of the country in terms of any sort of civilian casualties or civilians that might be as risk. the u.s. would put out warnings. so it is fascinating that this warning came out just a few weeks ago and a way to warn the russias in an open way and i'm curious what you will see in the coming days. i think the big challenges in the russian media environment, how will we know what information is true. i could tell you, just from one my feeds, there was already claims that it was ukrainians in my russian media feed but at the same time there was videos of defence after that. so how will we know what is true in that information environment. ambassador mcfaul noted when he started off, it is very difficult to know what is true because inside of russia with this state media they're quick to point fingers in a lot of

different directions and it is hard to define what is fact and fiction. >> and we're getting new video that shows the attack from inside of the arena. the gunman entering the arena. it is pretty terrifying. ambassador, i want you to pick up there. on the point that clint made, it ties to point that you made about putin, about understanding what is true and what is not. how does the media environment in russia then complicate those questions? >> well, even in previous terrorist attacks when we had much more independent media, we never got the full story and in particular the bombings and the terrorist attacks of 1999, there have been tuddies that said they were false flag events, designed by the government to help putin come to power. i'm not suggesting that this happened here but i want to underscore how hard it is to get real information. but i'm really flad you're focusing on when the state

department, i worked at the state department, we weror -- we were worried about terror attacks in the run-up to the sochi olympic in 2014. sochi is close to the caucus and we all had an interest in sharing information to reduce the probability of a terrorist attack then. for the united states government, for state department to put out the statement that they did, that is a very big step. that does not just happen automatically. that means we have very clear intelligence to worry about precise by what we are witnessing today. and for them to say that publicly is an even bigger hurdle. because they put that out suggested that there was some very strong intelligence suggesting that something tragic like this might happen. >> you could give me a sense,

clint, of the effort that the global intelligence community is undergoing right now? >> yeah, it is a pretty tremendous one, alicia. and i think one of the key points is you'rek looing at different threads, different sort of groups that would be doing different forms of intelligence. one would be the counter-terrorism over the last 20 years, looking for any sort of connections from everything from the islamic tate to al qaeda to the war on chechnya 20 year ago and there is a lot of analysis being done in three different lanes. one in the context of the ukraine fight, vis-a-vis the ukraines, would this make sense and already the russian partisan groups that have been fighting along the russian-ukrainian border. there is focus on that group. this is veterans who come back from ukraine that are not particularly happy with the fact that they were forced to go fight in ukraine as part of a

russian draft combined with the sort of left overs of the prigozhin movement, this is the wagner center, many of them disgruntled they were pushed out after pig oezin died. so when you look at this, you're talking about a multi-level, a multi-national intelligence effort looking in many different directions. and then there is the question really of denial and deception, which is russia will likely not put out accurate information particularly from their state media. so trying to pars through that and looking for real evidence and looking for sources like the videos that you post here, to try to get them -- to try to ascertain what the threads might be for what groups might be responsible for this. >> so many questions remain as this continues to develop. ambassador michael mcfaul and clint watts, thank you so much for getting us started. when we return, we're learning brand-new details about the just department prosecution of donald trump and why it took as long as it did to get going

and whether the case will go to trial before the election. that is next. plus both sides getting ready for a critical hearing in what will likely be the first criminal trial of a former president. what alvin bragg wants the judge in the hush money case to do now. and reproductive health care on the line again as the supreme court takes up the attempted ban on mifepristone, as the safely dog used in half of all abortions in this country. we're going to discuss that court that ended roe is willing to end it all over again. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. stay with us. ouse" continues after a quick break. stay with us if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy

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brand new reporting in "the new york times" sheds light on the years of attorney general merrick garland's thorough but cautious pursuit of justice following the january 6 attack with the former indictment of a former president. the doj work have a quintessential work to determine the moral against the ultimate rule breaker mr. trump who is trying to avoid the smallest mistakes. he might have made one big one. not recognizing that he coo end up racing the clock. he didn't count on mr. trump's political resurrection after january 6 and his fast victory in the 2024 republican presidential prime which has complicated the prosecution and given the former president leverage in court. the reporting accounts that the doj started from the bottom and worked upwards and had a follow

the money strategy and then went after a legal path focusing on election fraud. complicating matters, in a behind the scenes slower moving doj about that, the times reports that mr. garland has said time and again that the committees hearing have no impact on the trump investigation and they were motivated only by the need to get it right to imagine the mistakes that we do make and making sure that we don't make them. joining us now from the department of justice and the analyst andrew weissmann and plus senior adviser and legal affairs analyst anthony coley and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and legal analyst mary mccord. it is great to see you all. andrew, tart off why this matters at this time. the decision to review mr.

trump's claim of presidential immunity has threaten to push the trial deep into the campaign season or beyond raising the possibility that voters will make their choice between mr. president trump and president biden without guilt or innocence being established has resurfaced a question, that long dogged mr. garland, what took so long. andrew, can you answer that, spablely after reading this piece? >> no, i can't. but i think what the way, when i read this piece, i sort of had several reactions. first, i do think it is important that people realize that the truth here is not probably black and white. in other words, it is not possible to say that the department of justice did nothing, for one, they prosecuted hundreds of people at the ground level and slightly above that. because the oath keepers and the

proud boys were difficult and righteous cases. and they also did open some investigative avenues and were exploring certain things prior to the january 6 hearings. but that being said, there is just no getting around that they made public statements at the time about how they were doing a bottom up investigation as if they were going after an organized crime family or enron and seeing if they could flip people from the bottom to the top and i remember writing for "the new york times," after cassidy hutchinson testified and there were reports that the department of justice didn't know anything about her, that this was just the wrong approach and i think not to pat myself on the back but reason i think that is so clear is when you look at the indictment that was ultimately brought, it is anything but a bottom up investigation. so i think they just really did

not approach this in the right way. at the outset. and so i think that is one of the reasons that we have this timing crunch now. and it is not to say that the supreme court might not have delayed things or that we -- or that judge cannon wouldn't have delayed things. but i think there is to question if they had act the with the alack ritty that you see some from jack smith, that we wouldn't be if the exact position we are in now. that is my opinion reading from the outside. >> anthony, i see you practically jumping out of your chair. >> andrew weissmann is as smart as they come, in terms of monday morning quarterback, i'm monday morning quarterback with the best of them. this is any take. i'm not a lawyer like andrew or mary. but my sense of this is that history will ultimately be the judge and right now i think it

is premature to say whether or not merrick garland was right or wrong in his approach at what is clear to me based on this particular reporting is from the very first paragraph, we see that merrick garland and lisa monaco put in place from the start of their tenure, people an processes to ensure early this their tenure that donald trump and people around him were being investigated aggressively. that is a takeaway from this report. and the only other thing i would add, because andrew mentioned cassidy hutchinson i believe in "the new york times," not speaking about that report, but it is important to note that people cannot always believe everything that they read about active, ongoing criminal investigations at the justice department. and this was, to be frank, this was my great frustration leading communications at doj, alicia, because sometimes people could come into my office and

reporters and they would say, we're good to report x, y and z and we saw x person go into a grand jury and they said y. what do you say about that? doj has stringent rules that preclude any official from engaging in that type of conversation and that example, i couldn't even -- i couldn't even confirm that the mere existence of a grand jury. and so what the public is left with and in that situation and that type of example is, at best, a lopsided view of what has happened and at worst something that is totally wrong and that is not consistent with what doj is doing and in a criminal matter. so that is very important for people to know. that first impressions, about what doj is doing own active criminal investigations are frequently wrong and they don't always include the side of the just department. >> mary, i want to look at one of the strategies used by doj as

described by the times. department leaders believe that the best way to justify prosecuting mr. trump was to find financial links between them and the rioters because they thought it would be more straightforward and less risky than a case based on untested election interference charges. according to people with knowledge of the situation. but that conventional approach rooted in prosecutorial muscle memory yielded little talk about that approach to investigating. >> well, first, i want to put up something that anthony said, i think that we do have to take with a bit of a grain of salt reporting on internal doj investigations. until this reporting based on previous reporting by other media outlets, you know, you would think that the department was doing basically nothing except for going after the rioters an trying to work their way up. i thought that couldn't have been the case. there have to have been more going on. this reporting suggests there is

more going on there but we don't know exactly what. and follow the money is a tried and true investigative practice, whether you're talking about gang charges or white-collar offenses. and in the same reporting about that financial links between the rioters and the trump -- those in trump's inner circle not panning out, you also see quotes in the article saying that leah monaco was pressing the investigate team, what are we going to have by labor day? so i think we have reporting that is not clear to us about what particular angles might have been being taken and there was some reason to believe that groups like the oath keepers an the proud boys were connected to those within mr. trump's circle. they have provide the security for roger stone and for others, mike flynn, there have been other connections that have been

described that show money being used to fly various people into d.c. for some of these events leading up to january 6. previous events in d.c. so it is not a crazy strategy but think what is important here is that when that didn't pan out, there was a pivot and we really see that coming at the end, i guess, of 2021 and into 2022 when they, as you indicated at the top of the segment, they realized, let's tart looking into this fraudulent electors scheme and coming at it from that perspective, which proved much more fruitful. to is hard to second-guess the various strategies particularly when we have this reporting, we still don't know everything that is going on in the department of justice. >> andrew, with those many grains of salt sprinkled all over the conversation, talk to

me about the push and pull with the 1/6 committee. >> just to be clear, marry and anthony's points are definitely good reminders. but, one thing that i took away from this report, was it struck me as a report that was being pushed out by the department of justice. not that this was their effort to push back on the we didn't do anything. which is clear, that i think -- again, if people say look, they didn't not do anything. i think this is a matter of degrees, not what they didn't do anything and suddenly they did do something. and one of things that i think is another sort of sign, because as np outsiders, you are tea leave reading is the reaction of the congressional committee, the january 6 committee. i have done high-profile matters. it is never the case that the

congressional committees are getting ahead of the department. department never wants that for a whole variety of prosecutorial reasons. you want to be the first person interviewing and doing a covert investigation to move a case forward and people on the committee who were quite aware of that who have been prosecutors and seen it from the other side as well and so one of the reasons that i think you're hearing so much from people like adam schiff, jamie raskin and others, was that sense of dismay that there wasn't enough going on. and now, it is totally true that they may not have seen everything. that is anthony's point and mary's point. but that is another indication that there was -- this was not normal. and i still think that no matter what i've heard, i still do not hear any response to how it is that the department did not know about cassidy hutchinson and we do know that because she's become quite a public person

about what -- who she spoke to and when she was interviewed. so we know that she was not being focused on and it -- to me that is a sign of what was the investigation and that is just to me a pretty hard fact. so, you know, i think that the department is fine for them to put out this story and this spin and i'm not saying that it is inaccurate but there is a fuller context and i agree that ultimately, yes, history will be the judge, but that is what we're doing now is looking at the pieces of data and trying to come up with an educated view as to how to assess it based on imperfect knowledge which is what all humans have almost all of the time. so that is why i've come up with this assessment. >> thank you both so much for spending some time with us. mary, you are sticking with me. when we return, we're going to turn no another prosecution of the disgraced ex president.

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donald trump is on the brink of being the first former president to face trial and we could know as soon as monday whether his tackics could further impact the cases against him. trump attorneys are pushing to dismiss the case altogether

after the d.a. turned over a number of new documents but brag said enough is enough. fewer than 300 pages of documents turned over have anything to do with trump's criminal defense and argued the case should not be delayed and the hearing is scheduled for monday when the judge could set a new trial date and as the "new york times" points out, that same day mr. trump faces a deadline to post a half a billion dollars bond in his civil fraud case in new york. the deadlines come as mr. trump comes with a dizzying array of legal entanglements. back with me, sue craig and mary is back with us. what are you expecting on monday? >> when you said all of that, just another monday in manhattan. >> just another monday. >> delay, delay, delay. think you'll hear alvin bragg make the case this should go forward and there was not a lot of documents, and wait for it,

from the trump side, you're going to hear they need 90 days or be thrown out altogether. so that is what we'll see come monday morning when we all meet in downtown manhattan. >> it is really, we talk, mary, about the collision course that all of his legal entanglements are on but monday is a great example. how long should it realistically take trump's lawyers to go through the 270 pages of those domes that bragg's office say are relevant to the case that has somehow become a sticking point here? >> we don't -- 270 pages of documents, even 270 domes is something that routinely lawyers go through in a day. now obviously they'll want to relay anything they learn to other evidence an make legal assessments where this might fit in with the case and how useful it is. but just reviewing them, these are things that lawyers do all of the time and should not take

an extraordinary length of time. and i don't even -- i don't think that is probably all that they're going to be fighting about on monday. i think that we'll see mr. trump's lawyers trying to waste a lot of time by arguing that mr. bragg and/or the attorneys at the u.s. attorney as office in the southern district of new york behaved unethically and withheld documents and should be pressed to account for their behavior and try to sort of create another issue to throw a monkey wrench into the trial. an issue that judge merchant may think or hope that he needs to resolve. but ultimately, whatever that may be, so long as it is not mr. bragg's fault and i think he makes a compelling case that he was not in any sort of joint investigation with the southern district of new york, that he had asked for documents from them last year and promptly

provided them to mr. trump last year and even this year on mr. trump's belated subpoena, before looking at themselves, turned those over to mr. trump. so mr. bragg will be able to place himself well placed on the pleading and whether someone in the southern district of new york, that is a side show from whether he has now what he needs and should be able to get to trial. so i think that we'll see mr. trump's attorneys trying to create other issues that will then ask to be the basis for delay. >> trump calls the efforts an apparent attempt to shift the focus away from his own criminal conduct by pursuing remedies to which he is not entitled an the question is does the judge agree? >> the speculation sort of a dangerous game. >> but you were willing to play? >> you know, i like to gamble at

things and i like to speculation. you know, i sat through trial with a criminal trial of the trump organization and judge merchan was presiding over that and i think he wants to keep this on track. he seems very orderly and moving things forward and i just think just his style that i saw in that first trial, i think would suggest that, again, we're guessing, but i think we'll see it move forward in the 30-day period which would be because it could move forward in mid april. i think mary was spot on. i think they'll try to muddy up the waters in arguments just over that discovery and how long it is going to take. they're going to try to muddy it up but i think he'll cut through that. it seems reasonable this should move forward if not in 30, a little bit over that in terms of days. >> i'm going to be watching

thinking about the predictions that sue craig has bejudgingly made. thank you very much into when we return, the supreme court over turned roe v. wade and now they're set to hear arguments over a ban on mifepristone. the widely used abortion medication. how a ruling could revamp women's health care in this country and drastically change how all americans are medically treated.

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at this moment, in state's across our nation, we're witnessing a full on attack against hard fought, hard won freedoms and rights including the right of women to make decisions about their own body and not have their government tell them what to do. [ applause ] today in america, one in three women of reproductive age live in a state with an abortion ban. >> we each face a question. what kind of country do we want to live in. >> vice president kamala harris earlier this week at an event honoring women's history month on the stakes of the fight for reproductive freedom and next week the stakes get higher as the supreme court hears a case that could curtail access or ban mifepristone. it is vital health care for women trying to end their

pregnancies. a recent study found that 63% of all abortions were performed using medication. back with us, former obama white house policy director and dr. kavita patel and political analyst donna edwards and post of the podcast and special correspondent for "vanity fair," molly jong. dr. patel, what is at stake in this case in. >> it is a high stakes case for a lot of reasons. not just preventing access to one of the commonly used drugs, but the broader implications because if the court actually determines that indeed the fda did not have sufficient evidence and that there is this potential for harm and they take the drug away, there is immediate access to the drug is cut off. but then anybody could bring up a problem with any drug that was approved by the food and drug administration on a theory that shun could get hurt.

so you could see how this could apply broadly to anything, including even birth control, which is a very important development in reproductive health as well. >> molly, i'm struck by the fact that there will be real implications for women in red states. there is also implications for womens in states who haven't yet had to contend with this in the same way. >> yeah, i think what is interesting about this case, is that it shows that when republicans say abortion is a state's right issue, they're lying. right. that's what we see. and i want to say about mifepristone, if they do this, it will all fda approval of all drugs, which is a wild thing, because this drug has been on market for more than 20 years. but also mifepristone is used in abortions and in miss care -- miscarriages and it is used to

treat women because this medicine is health care. and so it is a really clear example of how these republicans in their quest to end abortion, are making all pregnant women unsafe. >> i just wonder how it plays politically, donna, in light of the reaction and response we've seen following the alabama supreme court ruling on ivf, the way that republicans have sort of not known which way to go on that. that they want to say they support ivf, they don't really want to reckon with personhood, the same thing happens when you talk about one of the national bans. you have donald trump saying like 16, because it was a nice round number and then 15 weeks not arguing with whether or not he wanted to see a national ban. they're painting themselves into a politically impossible corner. >> well, and not just that, but i mean, the reality is that these right-wing republicans are doing exactly what everybody predicted following the supreme

court's devastating decision to upend the law of the land in roast. and it is predictable that anti-abortion activists would go from abortion to mifepristone to ivf and fertility and to contraception itself. while these conservative republicans have painted themself into a corner, it is not where the american people are and we will see whether the supreme court is going to attempt to clean up the mess that it is left after deciding that it was going to decide it was going to send this to states. molly is right. this is not just about individual states making a decision. because obviously this particular decision could have an impact on women nationwide and it will backfire on donald

trump and republicans who continue to support this anti-abortion stance that is a view by the american people or supported by women across the country. >> doctor patel, the lower courts relied on pseudo science to arrive at this decision which is dangerous both as it relates to this decision but also as it relates to any regard for science, for good information, for basing law and public policy on, you know, facts. >> yeah, we're seeing this kind of pattern by the way, we're seeing it not just with mifepristone, but even facts around oral contraception. it is about a tactic, that i've learned to recognize this pattern, fear and uncertain and doubt. so you're taking the fear well this could happen to you, because we have something that wasn't even a trial and there is this one possibility, uncertainty and then putting doubt into the authority of the

food and drug administration. what did the fda know and a doctor that has been prescribing it, what could that mean. so when you put this recipe together, out comes the calamity that we see. i have a lot of deep regrets because i like to think people value science. they value when i tell them, this is what we know and that is what we don't know. but maybe we need to be more em fattic with the messaging to see there is no basis for much of their argument but they're somehow breaking through. >> well i think part of that, molly, is well, i think part of molly, is when the rubber hits the road, right? we've heard of texas where you've had a number of folks say, i was paying attention to the law. i just didn't understand that it could impact me, right? i think there were a lot of people who, sort of, had some -- to some degree followed the personhood debate and not understood it could have a corollary with ivf.

it is when it intersects with a lived experience of yourself, someone you love, that it becomes much more real. >> yeah, and we're seeing that already with pregnant women. we're seeing in louisiana, the report where doctors don't want to treat until 12 weeks because they don't want to get blamed for a miscarriage. what i think is even more terrifying is we're seeing the writing on the wall. the writing on the wall is embryonic personhood. it's coming after ivf. and with embryonic personhood, coming after the birth control pill. and then the morning after pill, right? the morning after pill because they think it's an abortion fascist, which it's not. and then you look at they want to get rid of iuds. so, this really is a war on birth control. and the reason that this is about -- because this is about control and power and women being put in different -- you know, not being able to be independent the way they have been. >> donna edwards, i have 30 seconds left but i want to give

you the last word. >> i think, again, this is entirely predictable. i mean, while women may not have understood the full import of overturning roe v. wade, the antiabortion movement has understood that very clearly. so, they are on a tear to try to undo every law, and, you know, make sure that it is the law of the land that life begins at conception. and they view this as part of an overall strategy to completely outlaw fertility, antiabortion pills, and to go after contraception. so, it doesn't end here. but it can end with the right call on election day. >> doctor kavita patel, donna edwards, and molly -- thank you for spending time with us. we'll be right back. ending time. we'll be right back.

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wisconsin is resigning earlier than expected. now, just next month, leaving their majority hanging by a thread, just one vote to spare on legislation. we'll sneak in another break. we'll be right back. lation we'll sneak in another break we'll be right back.

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thank you so much for spending part of your friday with us. we are so grateful. i hope you will join me along with my cohosts bright tomorrow for a special three-hour edition of "the weekend." lev parnas and former trump attorney michael cohen. that's "the weekend" at a special time starting 7:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi alicia. thank you very much. welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber, and we are following breaking news. reports of this terrorist attack on the outskirts of moscow. here we have live pictures. this is the scene, a very popular local concert