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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  March 25, 2024 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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>> is an incredible husband. >> it astounds me i'm still here. the overwhelming feeling is gratitude. >> natalie, pat, david, i'm a super fan of all of them. for you at home, if you are not from the new york area, if this didn't speak to you, i'm really sorry. sometimes when your hostess from the garden state, she gets to pick the stories. tonight, i am especially grateful for chuck scarborough. we say get here all the time, local news matters and new yorkers are especially lucky we've got the best for the last 50 years. congratulations chuck on this phenomenal milestone. i can't wait to watch you next. on that note, i wish you all a very, very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks at nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you in new york at
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the end of tomorrow. today at the start of the day, the republican parties perceptive presidential nominee was facing a deadline to put up a $460 million bond or, if he couldn't, today, the state of new york would start seizing his bank accounts and his properties pursuant to a huge fraud judgment that has been levied against him by the courts. he then got a surprise reprieve of that deadline this morning. a new york appeals court said today he can put up a smaller pond, only $175 million. they also said that deadline is no longer today. now he has an extra 10 days to do it. they did not explain their decision. but, that is what it was. today, the republican party's presumptive residential nominee also learned the first of his four pending criminal trials starts three weeks from today, april 15th. this is the case in which he's facing dozens of felony charges related to falsifying records at his business to up illegal contributions to his
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presidential campaign. that was today as well. also today, the un security council passed a resolution calling for a cease-fire in gaza. the u.s., importantly, abstained from the vote instead of vetoing it, which angered the israeli government, which resulted in israel: of plant meetings with u.s. government officials. today, the ceo of boeing announced he is resigning and everyone pronounced him lucky he was just stepping down and not falling through a fuselage store that someone forgot to screw closed. today, the rapper sean diddy combs had his homes searched by homeland security officials in some sort of federal investigation. mr. combs has been accused of sexual assault and trafficking in public forums. today,
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federal officials searched his homes. today, the new york times reported when brazil seized the passport of that country's former president and they started arresting his aides for trying to mount a coup to keep him in power after he lost reelection, that former president, jair bolsonaro, fled into another country's embassy. he fled to the embassy of hungary. apparently to try to get asylum from the gary government and viktor orban. his own country's police forces could not arrest him in brazil. each one of those stories is incredible on its own terms. today is one of those days in which the news has been a fire hose, not a faucet. there is a lot going on, there's a lot to cover. there is a huge and totally underappreciated supreme court case that will be argued tomorrow, which is so radical and so potentially life- changing for american women and comes from such a bizarre place in the long that it almost can't be overstated how important and how strange it is. we've got guests booked on that
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tonight, tomorrow the supreme court argument on that case, i'm eager to talk about it. all of this to say there is a lot going on and this is a huge day in the news, all of which makes me all the more flabbergasted, all the more bewildered that i have to start tonight with something else. i have to start tonight with something else. so, let me explain it my way. in the hopes that maybe this helps our overall understanding of what has just happened here. these are guys who live rent free in my head. none of their faces will likely be familiar to you but on the upper left, that is in and named william dudley pelley. he ran a fascist paramilitary group in the united states that was modeled on the church in germany, the storm troopers. william dudley police group was called the silver shirts. he was their leader, he said that he would be america's hitler, that he and his silver region would get rid of democracy and run america the way hitler was running germany.
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he mounted a run for president from a party he called the christian party. his run for president did not go well. he got less than 2000 votes total. go back to that group there, that for some. on the upper right, probably have never seen that guy either. his name is jared lk smith. he was a fantastic speaker. some people in his time said he was the best orator this country may be had ever produced. jared lk smith, he was a fascist. he called himself a christian nationalist. he said we needed a christian nationalist take over to "seize the government of the united states." he attacked fdr, he attacked president roosevelt for supposedly being too old and too infirm to stay in the job. jared lk smith said about fdr, "we are going to drive that
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cripple out of the white house." jared lk smith ran for president on the america first party ticket. like william dudley pelley, he got less than 2000 votes. go back to that for some again, okay, let's do the upper left. you might recognize him, maybe. his name is charles carlin. he was a right-wing radio phenomenon, maybe the most influential and whitest reaching american media figure ever in the history of american television and radio. he was a fascist. he was in love with the franco dictatorship in spain. he invited mussolini to submit articles to his newsletter. he used a speech by the propaganda minister, word for word translated into english and put his own byline on it. that's classy. charles coghlan knew he couldn't be president himself because he was a priest, maybe but mostly because he was canadian. so, charles coghlan decided to
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arrange, effectively, a puppet candidacy of a no-name congressman but everybody knew that if you voted for that no- name congressman, it would really be charles coghlan beef behind the scenes running the show. that presidential run organized by charles coghlan, it did not work either. he did his best and he was a huge media figure at the time but in that presidential run, he got less than 1 million votes nationwide. now, back to the foursome. the last one, lower right-hand side, his name is general george van horne mostly. his deputy chief of staff of the u.s. army at one point. he conspired with fascist groups in the united states that were plotting a violent overthrow of the u.s. government where his deal with them was that after they overthrew the government, they would install him as the new american dictator. and george van horn moseley testified to congress about it,
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he is blind if you got into the white house, first thing he would do would be effectively to empty the government out, to fire the entire government. he would have to because you know, deep state. communists everywhere. general george van horn moseley's plan did not work out either . he mentioned he was a retired general. as a retired general, the u.s. army told him he of course was welcome to continue barnstorming the country, offering himself as america's furor but if he did so, the army would no longer feel obligated to keep him on their payroll as a retiree. and so george van horn moseley, would you like to keep your army pension or would you like to keep calling for the overthrow of the american system of government in order to install yourself as a dictator? you can have one but not both , which will it be? general george van horn moseley decided hard, but let's go with the pension. he took his pension , a condition of keeping his pension was that he would stop
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talking about overthrowing the government and becoming america's dictator. so, didn't work for him to take over either. i bring this up because these guys live rent free in my head and i am aware. i am very well aware that in our country, there has been no shortage of creeps like this. there has been no shortage of american men who thought they would make an excellent dictator of the united states. and, they were delusional enough to think the rest of us would like that too, that we would put them in that position, if we could. they all thought that you could still enough frustration in the united states, you could get people divided against each other enough, you could get people head up enough and frustrated enough with the complexities and, rises and frustrations of democracy that you could convince people to get rid of it.
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you know, you tell people it is an emergency enough, eventually you tell people it is time to break glass in case of emergency. and, the message of what they are offering instead is always some variation of the same theme. imagine a new american where, thank god, there's finally a man in charge. he's finally going to get stuff done and we will all be unified for once behind this leader because he loves america and he's going to finally, once and for all, fix our problems by getting rid of all of the things that are stopping us from fixing our problems. if you are against the leader, maybe you are one of those problems it we will have to get rid of you. otherwise, the rest of us will all be so unified. this has this clean simplicity to it, things will be efficient for once. there won't be an opposition
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political party, this useless congress will stop standing in the way, they will either become irrelevant or they will be ignored or, if need be, they will be abolished, get them out of the way, they don't do anything anyway. the judicial system, that will no longer be a constraint on the country or on the leader, who is trying to get stuff done. all of these strings will no longer hold gulliver down. the leader will be able to lead. the judicial branch will come to heal, it will do as it is told or it will be ignored or even abolished, if that is what it takes, just like congress. the government will be emptied out and replaced with people loyal only to the leader, just so we can get stuff done. you don't want that bureaucracy hanging around, you don't want that deep state. we will get rid of everybody. we will put people who are all part of a leaders program, it will be so clean, so efficient, so simple. politics will finally get out of the way. aren't we exhausted of politics ? let's not have politics
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anymore. all this deep state nonsense, all these lesser institutions, these lesser people, these would be competitors who lost to the leader, they will get out of the way, they will be gone so we can be unified, so we can finally get something done, so we can be great again. it's always the same thing. it's always some version of that same sales pitch. there has been no shortage of guys who have preached that to the people of the united states. you go back and look, you find that there are not just no shortage of them, there's a surprising number of them who really did think they could persuade the country to vote for that kind of change, vote to install somebody like them in power whereupon the whole american system of government would be done away with so we could have this new system instead under them. they all thought i will just give people a chance to vote for me instead of the american system of government. i will run for president. they all failed miserably.
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but, they all live rent free in my head to the state because while we have had a succession of dudes with these aspirations, live and among us in the united states of america, they are all now largely forgotten for a reason. there's a reason when i put up those pictures, none of those guys looked all that familiar. there's a reason they have all been mostly lost to history and it is this. did you catch what i said about how those guys were trying to get into the white house? how those guys thought they were going to get to be leader of the united states? william dudley pelley was the presidential candidate of the christian party. what's that? gerald lk smith was the presidential candidate of the america first party. what's that? father charles coghlan, the public presidential campaign he ran was for the union party. what's that? general george van horn moseley, the group he tried to get to put him in the white house was called the american nationalist confederation.
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what are those things? none of them are still parties or organizations. some of them don't even have wikipedia pages to this day. so we've had a lot. we've had plenty of would-be authoritarians who wanted to do away with the american system of government and make us an authoritarian country instead. but, they tried to accompanist that the infant and or latching onto random parties and movements you've never heard of and that never went anywhere. none of them ever attached themselves to something big and powerful with institutional capacity and gravitas and l historical heft. none of them ever attached themselves to something like the republican party. and, at first, real estate developer donald trump didn't either. do you remember that his first attempt to run for president was with a different party question mark the year 2000, the reform party, remember that? nobody does. the reason we don't remember it
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is because it is about as memorable as any other pointless no-name third-party vanity campaign. it's like whether it is radical and revolutionary and wants to get rid of the american system of government or not, it is almost beside the point, who cares? it is irrelevant. even though we've had 1001 would be authoritarian leaders in this country, guys who imagined and plotted and promised an overthrow of the u.s. system of government, we have never before had someone with that ambition who also has the use of one of our two major political parties to get him there. and so it is a different kind of danger, right? it is a different kind of danger. it is dangerous because it means the power and the institutional heft and the legitimacy of a massive american political institution is now being brought to bear on this project that has always before now been, yes, radical and worrying and sometimes quite violent but it wasn't going to win. what has always been a fringe
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project before now, in america today, if the polls are to believed, it is now a cause and a candidate that is likely to win. it is not because the american people have never heard the sales pitch. it is not because we the american people have never heard the siren song of a guy proclaiming the virtues of a new american where there is finally a man in charge and nothing will get in his way. we've heard this 1 million times from 1 million crazy eyed weirdos. it is only likely to win now because of the republican party, because people in so- called normal politics have laundered it, have laundered this sales pitch to make it seem like a good choice. they have lent their own credibility to even the craziest parts of it. they didn't just stick around for the policy, they didn't
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just stick around for the potentially normal part of it, they stick around with it and stayed on board and pitched in to help when push came to shove, when we got to the violent part. the person who is the head of the republican party during donald trump's time in office and during his effort to throw out the election result and stay in power anyway and during his africa to run for election again after having done that is ron r romney mcdaniel. she pitched in and helped. she helped set in motion the part of the plot that involve sending fake trump collectors to cumbersome states that trump did not win so republicans in washington could use those fake fraudulent collectors leads to content that maybe trump it win those states, even though he didn't. don't believe me on that, there she is on page 23 and page 27 of the federal indictment charging donald trump with inspiring to defraud the united states. there is her personal
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appearance in this scene of the crime as alleged by the u.s. justice department in this ongoing criminal case. in michigan, where the fake electors are themselves now on trial, she told the state of michigan in writing explicitly "do not certify the election results." the detroit news had reported that with donald trump on the phone with her, she directed michigan election officials to not certify the vote she told them, "do not sign it. we will get you lawyers." she pitched in. she was part of the project. and what was the project? it was to use the power of the republican party, republican officials in the state, republican officeholders in washington, the national republican party that she runs to use the parties power to reject election results, to take over the government and hold power by other means. this project is now ongoing, right? now, the project is to tell the american people that those efforts around the 2020
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election were righteous, the 2020 election, it wasn't okay. the election results were not correct. we shouldn't believe american elections. we shouldn't believe american elections are real elections. american election results should not be seen as real. they should not be respected. that is the project amount, right ? it didn't work to overthrow the government the last time but as long as you can build on that first effort, as long as you can keep up the anti-election mythology then you are priming your people, you are priming the american public to not accept the results of the next election either. you are telling them they are going to need to take power by other means because the election isn't going to be how we do it anymore. you are also priming people, honestly, to vote to give up the supposedly democracy we have because what good is it anyway? what are we really losing if we decide we are going to lose this, who cares? elections are fraudulent here anyway, who cares if we give
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them up? ronna romney mcdaniel has been pitching in on that too, continuing to say since 2020 that that election wasn't right, that the american public should know the that the vote wasn't real and that is a message not only about 2020 about but about this next election and whether or not election should matter at all and whether we should bother having them at all. the republican party getting behind that message is a choice. i mean, trump himself is going to do what he wants to do. we've always had guys like trump. sometimes they were ridiculous little uniforms. we've always had guys like that. we have never before had a big storied important american political institution embrace a guy like that, even when it came to overthrowing the american system of government. and in a time like this, it's hard, right? this is a challenging and
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worrying time. republican officials have to figure out whether they are going to stand up for the american system of government or not. republican politicians, congress has to decide if it's going to assert its own relevance. they are going to assert their own independence, their own role in the government, stand up for our system of government or not. judges and prosecutors have to decide if they are going to be braver than they ever thought they would have to be in this job. they have to decide whether they are going to stand up to the threats and violence and, nevertheless be independent, be fearless, stand up for their own independence and thereby stand up for our system of government. regular citizens have to decide if we are going to brave the threats and the violence to stay involved in politics to
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work for campaigns, to volunteer as election workers, despite all the threats, all the attacks, all the violence, to stand up for our system of government. and then there's the press, which is both reporting on all of this and is also part of it because just as a strong man needs to control the judicial branch or get rid of it, needs to control the congress or get rid of it, needs to control the political opposition or get rid of it, what the strongman most desires before all of that, the necessary precursor to all of that is to control the free press or get rid of it. and, you know, in the press, we do not take it personally when we get attacked, when they say they want to put us on trial and execute us for treason. we don't take it personally. but, we do defend ourselves as an institution, not because we are personally offended by the way we are treated but because a free and uncounted press is
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necessary for our democracy. a free and uncounted press is part of our system of government. we stand up for ourselves as a way of standing up for our country and for our constitution. the first amendment to which makes it possible for us to exist at all. and so i want to associate myself with all of my colleagues at msnbc and at nbc news, who have voiced loud and principled objections to our company putting on the payroll to someone who hasn't just attacked us as journalists but someone who is part of an ongoing project to get rid of our system of government, someone who still is trying to convince americans that this election stuff doesn't really work, that this last election wasn't a real result, that american elections are fraudulent because that
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argument, that is a necessary part, that is the most necessary part of the overall project of getting us, as americans, to give up on this election stuff. wouldn't we rather have a real man in charge, anyway, someone who can really get some stuff done, if only we could clear away all the things in his way? we have a long history in this country of forgettable men telling us that we need a new system of government where everything is under their control and politics is over and the new strongman way of government is going to make america great again. we've had a lot of these guys. but, our generation's version of this guy has gotten a lot further than the rest of them. why is that? he would have been as forgotten as all the rest of them had he not been able to attach himself to an institution like the republican party and had the leader of that party in his time not decided that she wouldn't just bite him, she would help. she would help with the worst
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of it. it is my understanding that the leadership of msnbc did not object to ronna romney mcdaniel being hired by nbc news when the matter first arose. but, when the hiring was announced and msnbc staff essentially unanimously and instantly expressed outrage, our leadership msnbc hurt us, understood , and adjusted course. we were told this weekend in clear terms ronna romney mcdaniel will not be on our air. ronna romney mcdaniel will not be on msnbc. and i say that and give you that level of detail because there has been an effort since by other parts of the company to muddy that up in the press and make it seem like that is not what happened at msnbc. i can assure you that is what happened at msnbc . ronna romney mcdaniel will not appear
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on msnbc, so says our boss since saturday and it has never been anything other than clear. and i will also say, you know, if you care what you think about this, i will tell you the fact that ms. ronna romney mcdaniel is on the payroll at nbc news , to me, that is inexplicable. you wouldn't, you wouldn't hire like a wiseguy, you wouldn't hire a made man, like a mobster to work at a da office, right? you wouldn't hire a pickpocket to work as a tsa screener. so, i find the decision to put her on the payroll inexplicable and i hope they will reverse their decision. it is not about, you know, democratic party, republican party, it is not about
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partisanship, it is not about right versus left, it is not about being a political professional versus some other kind of person, it is not about being mean or nice to journalists, it's not about just being associated with donald trump and his time in the republican party. it is not even about lying or not lying. it is about our system of government and undermining elections and going after democracy as an ongoing project, right? and, this is a difficult time for us as a country and i think that means we need to be clear eyed about the implications of it. difficult times make for difficult decisions. we are contending with something we've never had to contend with before. in the news business, yes, we are covering an election, would we do all the time but we are covering bad actors trying to use the recent clutches of a democracy to end democracy. the chief threat among them, now, is not the writers and the kooks but the slick political professionals turning their considerable talents to laundering violently revolutionary claims that america's elections aren't
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real, that election results aren't real and that they shouldn't be restricted. we are contending with this not from william dudley police brown to militias but from the multibillion-dollar massive political operation of one of the two governing parties of the united states of america. and, that is new. with our country up against something that daunting and that scary and not dangerous for the country, i think that decisions will inevitably happen, mistakes will be made. part of our resilience as a democracy is going to be recognizing, us recognizing when decisions are bad ones and reversing those bad decisions, hearing legitimate criticism, responding to it, and correcting course. not digging in, not blaming others, take a minute. acknowledge that maybe it wasn't the right call. it is a sign of strength, not weakness to acknowledge when you are wrong. it is a sign of strength and
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it was february 20 the county board of supervisors was holding one of its regular meetings. this is in arizona, maricopa county, arizona. there were discussions about proposed zoning changes and the new irrigation district and bringing certain roads and the county highway system. there was even a pet showcase for adoptable dogs. maricopa county is home to the city of phoenix. it's home to 60% of the
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population of the state of arizona. there's a lot of local governance to cover at these board of supervisors meetings. as the meeting approached the two hour mark, something changed in the room that was definitely a vibe shift. you could see the supervisors looking around, starting to whisper to each other. he seemed to sense something was about to happen and then the chair abruptly adjourned the meeting, at which point, some version of pandemonium broke out. >> this meeting is now adjourned. >> we the people will have answers. >> you are being served. you are being served. you are being served. you are being served. >> you will go to the other side of the sport. >> we will vote in new officials. >> it is only like this because you are here. >> you are treasonous. >> it shouldn't be like this.
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>> william. >> this is where election the nihilism hits the road. this is what it looks like in real life. you can see in the video how the maricopa supervisors get out quickly, law enforcement plucks is people who are yelling at them and jostling them. if you are wondering what the yelling is about, the shouting about treasonous and you are being served, after the supervisors left, one person in the crowd laid it all out. >> 12 signatures, each individual person is liable for $21 million just from this paperwork. if they don't present within three days, they will be personally served with an opportunity, again to rebut any one of our claims, which i am making right now, none of them
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have signed an oath of office, none of them are bonded to we the people, all of them are foreign invaders acting as government, they are not as governance. we will be serving them a waiver of tort and if they do not rebut, we will be calling the military and they will be hauled off to a military tribunal. we all know the penalty for treason. thank you. >> thank you. thank you. a waiver of tort they do not rebut, will be notifying the military and they can be hauled off to a military tribunal, we know the penalty for treason. thank you very much. maricopa county board of supervisors, almost all of them are republicans, they are all foreign invaders who are now liable for millions of dollars because somebody yelled you are being served. if they don't resign in minutes, the military will come and execute them. and, however this might look to us watching it on video, for the maricopa board of supervisors, having a bunch of people rush the dais yelling they are traitors and they should all be killed, is scary.
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here's how the washington post reported it. "the scene at the february 28 meeting terrified county employees. others were reminded after what happened after joe biden won the county and arizona in the 2020 presidential race. from supporters used to baseless claims of fraud to try to pressure or scare elected leaders and changing the county's election results." this was the scene for days on end outside that county elections department when the boat were being deleted. mobs of often armed trump supporters gathering outside the building, yelling at the election workers inside. at one point, they surrounded one elections worker outside the building. the person had to be pulled out of the angry crowd by a sheriff's deputy. arizona has been a hot of election denialism ever since as epitomized by the circus of that bizarre arena audit of the 2020 election. the state
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attorney general is closing in on a decision whether to criminally charge the fake electors from arizona who signed forged documents after the 2020 election claiming trump had won the state rather than fighting. just today, a man was sentenced to two and a half years in federal prison for making repeated death threats in 2022 against katie hobbes, who was then arizona's top elections official and is now governor. the head of the u.s. justice department elections task force at a press conference in phoenix today after the sentencing to drive home the message that threats against election officials will not be tolerated, they will be prosecuted and you will go to prison. in arizona now, the man who is at the center of all this, the current top elections official is somebody who newly needs a bodyguard just to go to work every day. he joins us live here next, stay with us. ay with us.
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quote "in training poll workers for this year's presidential election, the office of arizona secretary of state adrian fontes is training them for worst-case scenarios, conducting active shooter drills for election workers, sending kids to election offices that include tourniquets to stem bleeding, devices to barricade the doors, hammers to break glass windows." arizona has been ground zero for election denial and threats and intimidation of election workers ever since the 2020
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election. things do not seem to be getting better ahead of the next election but this time at least state officials know more about what they are up against. joining us now is arizona secretary of state, adrian fontes. thank you for being with us, i appreciate your time. >> thank you so much, rachel, for having me. >> is it fair to say things aren't better since 2020 in arizona and that as we head toward this next election, you are starting to see a continuation or maybe even a worsening of some of the sorts of threats and craziness we saw in arizona a few years ago? >> i think in balance, things are better. our elections officials are much better trained, they are more prepared. we know what to expect for the most part. there are some new emerging wrinkles. but, we've been here, we've seen that and this pictures you showed of those armed grounds outside of the warehouse, that was my warehouse, that was my election in maricopa county in 2020. we got through that, we got through 2022, we will get past 2024 and we will protect democracy. >> tell me some of the specifics of your planning.
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this is obviously a threatening environment, not just in terms of physical safety for you and your staff but in terms of making sure the election can be carried out without being hindered by external forces. >> well, first, the background, we've lost senior election officials in 12 out of 15 counties in arizona. to shore up the load, we are making sure that everybody who is coming in, most of whom really were already in elections at the next level down positions, that they are prepared and we are focusing on the fundamentals but we are also adding in some augmented training, including some ai training, like we had at a recent tabletop exercise. that is training law enforcement and the military use to role-play, throw scenarios out there. we've got some tiger teams from our office that are going out to make sure that our i.t. security systems are locked down, that folks are well trained and we have worked directly with the department of
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homeland security both at the state and federal level and worked to shore up our physical and cyber security needs. at the end of the day, it is fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. folks running elections in arizona are ready. >> i know the justice department had a press conference today in arizona, in phoenix after the sentencing of a man sentenced to more than two years in federal prison after threatening your predecessor, who is now the governor of the state. do you feel like the criminal law part of this, obviously threats and intimidation, are always illegal, let alone violence itself, do you feel like on the criminal law side of this, that arizona is doing a good job at prosecuting this stuff and you have the support you need from the federal justice department to do what needs to be done? >> i have been openly critical of the department of justice and the fbi for not celebrating
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their wins in the courtroom enough to act as a deterrent against this sort of thing. it looks like they are coming around a little bit. the press conference today really does show that accountability matters and it is important we let folks know that threats or violence against elections officials, at the end of the day, that is domestic terrorism. threats or violence for a political outcome is terrorism. that is what is happening in america today. it is in excusable. law enforcement at the federal and state level needs to step up, not just investigations but promoting the convictions that have been had so that folks understand clearly threatening election workers is not an american thing. it is criminal. acts of violence against election workers, election officials is also criminal. and, we cannot have this kind of activity and maintain a civil society that we purport to love. >> is a really interesting point about putting a spotlight, making sure people know when these prosecutions happen and when they are successful. arizona secretary of state adrian fontes, i'm sorry that your job is the kind of job that requires a bodyguard now, thanking you, i'm thankful for your service and thankful for
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your time tonight. good luck. we will be right back. stay with us. ay with us. from your pits to your- (sfx: deoderant being sprayed) secret whole body deodorant.
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the united states supreme court will hear oral arguments tomorrow in an incredible case, a case that will decide whether or not to severely curtail access to the abortion pill in this country. that is how most abortions are done in this country. the supreme court agreed to take up this case after a federal judge in texas effectively banned the use of one of the two pills that is used as part of medication
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abortion. the research has overwhelmingly shown the abortion pill to be effective and safe. it was first approved by the fda more than two decades ago. this texas judge, a trumpet appointee, a lifelong antiabortion activist, he ruled the fda was wrong to approve this drug. i have to tell you, his ruling was not a monument to intellectual heft. i'm not a lawyer but i know it is a bad thing when you're ruling relies on two studies that have since been retracted by their publisher. also, another "study" that pulled its data from anonymous blog posts posted on an antiabortion website. also, according to a brief filed by the aclu, the ruling also cited testimony from a person purporting to be a doctor who is not actually a doctor, unless you are okay to make people call you dr. because you have a masters degree in theological studies. like i said, not exactly a
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model ruling. nevertheless, a republican heavy appeals court upheld that texas ruling. we don't know what the supreme court is going to do in response. today, in a post roe v. wade world, two thirds of abortion are done through medication and in this case, the court will deliberate on tomorrow, whether or not to severely restrict the use of the abortion pill. it has almost unfathomable consequences for reproductive rights and not just in the part of the country that are hostile to abortion and have already banned it but everywhere in the country. joining us now is nancy northrop, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. i appreciate you being here, thank you. we are used to thinking about abortion rights now in terms of the patchwork of states that have various laws either banning or allowing it. this case that is coming to the supreme court tomorrow is about medication abortion nationwide. this is a texas case that would essentially rescind fda approval for one of the drugs
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that is used in medication abortion and that wouldn't just before red states, it would be everywhere, right? >> it makes me think about, you know, when the draft opinion first came down and we read it and the center for reproductive rights litigated the dobbs case and the live from justice alito, we are going to send this back to the states. this puts the lie to that. we are back in the supreme court less than two years later and they are going to decide whether really important approval for medication abortion , and particularly the approval for it to be done by telemedicine, which is totally expanded the ability for people who live far from clinics, who prefer to be at home to have a conversation by telemedicine and get the pills by mail, the fda has approved that as safe and effective. that is what is on the line, among other things in the case that will be argued in the
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supreme court. >> i know this is folly to ask but what are you expect in the court to do here ? everything i read that has said the underlying ruling, the district court ruling is so bananas that it would be unthinkable for them to side with that district court judge. that said, the appeals court did uphold some of what he was trying to do. that exit a little bit more of a wildcard. what are you actually expecting question >> i don't want to predict what the supreme court will do but i want to make clear to your viewers there was no basis in law and fact, as you pointed out in the district court opinion and there was no basis in law and fact in the very conservative fifth circuit decision. there is only one right outcome on the facts and the long and that is to uphold all of the agency decision-making. this is for agencies, the food and drug administration, to decide based on science, not for the court to be second guessing. it doesn't just impact it would significantly abortion care but all of the approvals of drugs. that is why drug manufacturers,
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including pfizer, filed a brief in the case saying you can't up and fda law in this way. the stakes are high for abortion and the stakes are high for the rule of law and for science-based fda approval of drugs. >> for anybody who uses pharmaceuticals for any reason in this country, this is up for debate tomorrow if they are going to take away the ability of the fda to approve drugs in the normal course. nancy northrop, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. we will be right back. stay with us. ay with us. it is the first e-class made just for you. for you. for you. this is not just design because your e-class... it adapts to you. it recognizes you. understands you. empowers you. energizes you. feels you. it evolves with you. the new e-class. ♪ ♪
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there are no term contracts. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network-nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. it's happening. one last piece of very exciting news to leave you with tonight. i'm going to do a live event with joy, with joy reid. and you can come if you want to. my brilliant friend and colleague joy reid has an instant