they are counting on congress ey being completely polarized, they can do this by themselves the new republican president. >> there are gestures that mike pence has been interviewed, figures in republican policies. the project 25, 2025 lays out a bunch of ways they can not just use the comstock act but the fda, there are a bunch of levers. >> band that has a legal jargo term, we are talking about contraception and the comstock act was passed to prevent this tale of contraception. >> they don't like women getting contraception and crusaded against it because it would wake them have -- make them have sexual lives. he wanted to stop that. he was an interesting guy who had a chronic problem with self pleasure. i didn't just make that up, i hope. look it up. >> zombie laws preventing

women, at that is where your modern-day republican party is at. ladies and gentlemen, the gop. m thank you. thank you for joining us. in 1993, time magazine called it the pill that changes everything, the new abortion pill was part of a two drug protocol for medication abortion and it really changed the american health landscape and the landscape across the globe. pregnant people in china, the united kingdom,'s reading, france, where the drug had already been approved, have the ability to end pregnancies without undergoing surgery and even in some cases, from inside the four walls of their own ls homes. according to time, this made abortion a truly personal and private choice, but it also opened up a new frontier of antiabortion backlash. as soon

as the drug was first developed and approved in france in the 1980s, it sparked protest, facing intense pressure from the catholic church, the company behind the pill decided to temporarily pull it from the market. in the u.s., the pill was considered a banned substance. federal research was forbidden during the reagan and bush years . finally in september of 2000, after four years and three rounds of fda reviews during the clinton administration, it was approved in the u.s.. but, the war had just begun. >> in other news, abortion n opponents are outraged over the governance decision, approving the use of the abortion pill in this country. abortion-rights supporters call it a victory over cmedical mccarthyism but it's a drug that fundamentally changes the way a woman can end the pregnancy. hilary lane report. >> reporter: no bigger than aspirin, mifepristone, leave

be the most controversial drug the fda has ever approved. >> medical advances should go through a rigorous scientific process but they should not have to go through the kind of political process that mifepristone has had to deal with. >> reporter: protesters lined the streets across the country for months in 2000 and 2001, to call for the fda to rescind approval. these were relatively small groups of protesters but they were loud and persistent. today, nearly 24 years later, sisters are back, this time in front of the supreme court, where legal advocates were inside petitioning the highest court in the land to restrict access to this drug, mifepristone. led by aaron holly, whose husband is republican senator joshua holly, a group of conservative christian lawyers calling themselves allies defending freedom, pushed the

courts conservative justices to ban the use of mifepristone after seven weeks of pregnancy and revoke the fda's 2021 decision to allow mifepristone to be mailed after a telehealth appointment. holly and her group are some of the same lawyers who helped argue the dobbs case which overturned roe v wade and that is no coincidence. there's a reason the group behind dobbs is now targeting her persona. that's because this right the patchwork of states that band abortion after dobbs in 2022, the number of abortions in the u.s. increased the following year, but the reason for that is largely telehealth. it's allowing women to still access abortion medication through the mail. pills were used in two thirds of abortions last year, when we saw the increase. the antiabortion movement knows

this and does not like it so they want to do everything they can to stop it. this is why they are now targeting the purpose and targeting telehealth appointment and targeting the mailing of pills. they are hoping that this supreme court, which overturned roe v wade, and invited more legal challenges to all sorts of freedoms, they hope this supreme court will help them do it. today, they tried to convince justices that mifepristone, which is more safe than both tylenol and viagra, that it is somehow dangerous for women and its use causes emotional harm to emergency room doctors who might someday, hypothetically, have to treat a woman who took stone for medication abortion. >> nearly 650,000 women take mifepristone every single year. it's no surprise that there's

an increase in emergency room bennett -- visits and treating women's suffering, outsourcing, by choosing to help women with a life-threatening condition. when they are called on the floor down to the operating oo room to treat a woman suffering from abortion drug harm, that is diametrically opposed to why they enter the medical profession. it comes along with emotional harm. >> but, the justices today, even conservatives seemed more than a little skeptical of the group of doctors holly represents, which includes physicians and dentists. it seems that they are less than convinced these seven doctors have anything more than a really longshot risk of treating a patient with a very rare complication from mifepristone and that in part because x million patients have taken mifepristone since the

year 2000 and the risk of fatal adverse effects is 0.00027%. it's a really, really small a chance anyone has severe complications from taking this drug and even more to the point, doctors who have conscious objections to treating patients with mifepristone complications are allowed, under federal law, to refuse to treat those patients. all of that notwithstanding, justice kagan asked ms. holly for one example of a doctor with a conscious objection who was forced to treat one of these patients. the justice essentially backed poly first something, anything, that would give her plaintiffs t a legal reason to file this lawsuit in the first place, something known as standing. >> you need a person to be able to come in and meet the courts regular standing requirements. you agree with that, yes?

>> correct. >> who is your purse? >> there is no person. justice jackson was not having any of this. she suggested the remedy, getting rid of mifepristone for everybody, is ridiculously brought,y, considering the totally unlikely and as a hypothetical harm that could be done to this group of seven physicians and dentists. >> counsel, can i ask you about the remedy and the way that i was talking with the sg? it makes perfect sense for the individual doctors to seek an exemption, but as i understand it they already have that. so, what they are asking for here is that in order to prevent them from possibly evern having to do these kinds of procedures, everyone else should be prevented from getting access to this medication. why isn't that plainly overbroad scope of the remedy the end of

this case? >> from that question, we finally, finally got ms. holly's central argument as to why national restrictions must be imposed to shield these seven doctors. >> these are emergency situations did respond doctors don't necessarily know until they scrub into the operating room whether this may or may not be abortion drug harm. because these are emergencies they cannot waste precious moments scrubbing in -- >> i think is we have a world in which they can actually lodge the objections you say they have. my question is, isn't that enough to remedy their issue? do we have to also entertained your argument that no one else in the world can have this drug or no one else in america should have this drug in order to protect your clients? >> again, it's not possible a given the emergency nature of these situations.

the council, let me interrupt, i'm sorry. >> that was a real argument before the supreme court today, that mifepristone has to be banned for everyone after seven with a pregnant because emergency room doctors don't have time to wash their hands repeatedly. we will have to wait until june to know what the court thinks of that. joining me now is jessica valenti, author and writer of "abortion every day," and a contributing editor at ms. magazine and history and politics of abortion pills in ti the night date, timely read, and the senior editor of slate. ladies, there are no better people to be talking to in this crisis moment for jessica, scrubbing in and scrubbing out, it's too much for doctors therefore, no mifepristone for anybody. i found it appalling but also shocking if you think that can be possible. >> i almost didn't find it

shocking or surprising because the group of doctors they brought forth with this case are such an egregious radical group of antiabortion extremists , this is very much who they are. they don't care about patients, they don't care about women's health. this is a group, one of the doctors they have in this case, this is a group that wants doctors to be forced to give women with life-threatening pregnancies c-sections instead of abortions. that's how radical they are and i really don't want that to get lost in this conversation, that these doctors are not run-of-the- mill, this is not one good faith political debate. >> i wonder, carrie, when you listened, i'll call it skepticism from some conservative justices, it you think this case, the just this case, because we will talk about the broader landscape fora reproductive freedom and a second, but do you feel like josh hawley, aaron holly, is

making a case that goes anywhere but this court? t? the mac it didn't sound like it. it sounded like the court was prepared to dismiss the case on standing. the standing is so weak, but not just the standing, the facts are weak, the science, the law is weak, this case is weak across the board and it's absurd it's before the supreme u court. mifepristone, as you said, is so safe, safer than tylenol, it should not be over-the-counter. it's been highly restricted because the antiabortion movement has been pushing from e the beginning to restrict access to prevent people from being able to access the drug. i'm hoping the court will dismiss it but the movement won't give up and they'll come back to its 2025 has promised that if a republican president i gets in the office that he will direct the fda to pull mifepristone from the market ora at least restrict telemedicine abortion which is a key way that more people have access to

abortion. they are not going to give up even if the court does dismiss this. >> dahlia, why did the court take the case up? is this damage control? what was the point? to just give clarence thomas which he wants which is absurd hearings on any manner of issues quite >> not exactly. the court has a structural problem and the structural problem is that anybody who wanted to file this case could go down to amarillo, texas, where judge matthew crismark is, and it's like putting your quarter in the candy bar machine be the only judge are going to get an amarillo is him. then, they knew that after getting in, he would do something incredibly dopey, like file a nationwide injunction, making it impossible for anyone in the country to get this drug. we have a form shopping, a judge shopping problem in this country that i should note the courts are trying to address, but for the moment, the court

has the problem of, one rogue judge, rogue fifth circuit that last huge chunks of his irrational, indefensible logic, and the court had no choice but to take this case. as long as we have judges that are way to the fringes, judges who make samuel alito and client thomas look centrist, those cases are going to rock it up to the court and the court is going to be embarrassed . they were embarrassed today th and they have to take that away . that's just a problem with judge shopping and it's a problem with fake facts, and bad science that somehow makes it into the court and the court has to muck out the stall. >> i want to get back to the judge in the second but jessica, we don't know what the court will do. they sounded skeptical and before we even get to the dismissal of this case being gobbledygook nonsense, there's a very real impact that all of

this has when we talk about regulating mifepristone, right? especially when we are talking about women in dates where abortion has been banned, women across the country, people pregnant across the country will be affect did, but it's a cute, it's a real crisis for these women in largely red states where they cannot have access to basic reproductive choices. >> there's a reason we saw the use of abortion medication go up so drastically from 2020. 52% of abortions, now it exceed 2%. a lot of that has accounted for women in antichoice states were getting that medication shipped to them. if they don't have that choice and don't have the ability to leave the state, they are trapped, they are hostages in the state that will not let them get basic healthcare. >> i do think, as we talk about what happens to these women, regardless, well, as the supreme court takes this up, you point out that the fight is not even beginning to be over.

the judge suggested he might re- rule on this in a different context and is a lot of talk about the comstock act, which is a zombie law, and anti- pornography law that restricts the mailing of this, from the 19th century, but that won't stop the republican party. can you talk about the way in which you think this court may use the comstock act in the future if this case doesn't work? >> well, the comstock law prohibited mailing, and what the antiabortion movement is doing is trying to revive that law, 150 years later, to try to ban mailing the riverstone and it would not only impact mifepristone, it would also impact other medication like misoprostol which is the second medication you take, which you can use a loan for an abortion.

it's an ulcer medication and is widely available. it could potentially be banned from mailing for anybody but instruments used in abortion, designed to use for procedural abortion, could also be banned. it's a really extreme approach that they are taking that could limit access to abortion, not only for people in states that bennett, but dates like new york, massachusetts, california. it would make abortion, they are trying to ban abortion nationwide by using this back door. >> i'll also say they can use that lot to ban the shipping of emergency contraception which they say is abortion, right? the lines defending freedom give an interview to political a couple days ago where she admitted that they believe emergency contraception is abortion. once you have these groups redefining what abortion is and you have a law that says you can't mail abortion medication, that could include emergency contraception and

they can use this so broadly and it's so important that we think about all of those impacts. >> they're coming after contraception and abortion. >>io want to say life begins at conception you enter into a host of interesting moral quandaries. to f your point, jonathan mitchell, the architect of a lot of this is that we don't need any judge, we have the comstock law on the books, we got it, we are done, we just need a republican president in office did those are the stakes . jessica, the indispensable resource on all things abortion related, thank you , my friend. carrie and dahlia, we have to talk a little more about this court, especially the legal ramificationsth. paula ramos ha a special report for us, from across the southern border where there's a network of underground volunteers distributing abortion medication to women in america. that is an exclusive we will have later this hour. plus, right-wing commentators

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probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. the statement was made that no court has ever previously second-guessed the fda's judgment about access to a drug, right? it's never second-guessed that. >> correct. what do you think the fda is infallible? >> no, we don't think that at all and we don't think that question is teed up in any way in this case. >> do you think the fda is infallible? that was the justices question today in the supreme court case that could determine the future of medication abortion and the future of drug approval in this country.

the fda is the federal regulatory agency that approves new drugs in the united states, and this calls into question whether the courts should believe the fda when it says a drug is safe. the skepticism tells us a lot about the court's conservatives and it just they maybe thinking about something much bigger than even abortion, mainly whether conservatives are going after the regulatory's date -- regulatory state. activist have brought a series of cases that threatened to up and 40 years of supreme court precedent and hobble the federal government's ability to enforce laws. those lawsuits are trying to limit regulators ability to enforce everything from laws against insider trading to laws that protect the food we eat and air we breathe. dahlia, let me talk to you, this case is about mifepristone but it is about whether we believe the fda is infallible, so do you think this court is prepared to get into it with

big pharma? >> that's the question. it was very clear, not only that he wants to second-guessed the fda, but he wants to state a claim that the maker of these pharmaceuticals is moneygrubbing and greedy and doesn't want to know how dangerous the product is so they won't do the studies. there is a real slide dague over and over again at pharma, but big pharma is so profoundly arrayed against the judges crazy order because you can't test drugs, you can't create drugs, you can't do anything if one person object thing in south dakota can get the entire medication poll. this is, in some sense, and easy case for a big business courts that really want pharma to win, but under your question

is a harder question which is this entire term has been a deregulatory juggernaut where the court keeps usurping to itself the power to decide what clean air looks like and decide how bureaus work and how fishermen have to enforce fishing roles and this is that dripping contempt for federal regulation and the most interesting moment i thought, after the justice had that question about are they infallible, justice brown jackson came at that quickly with, are we best suited to make deep dives on science and scientific regulation? this is the pattern we see at this court. they are here to tell us what the clean water act looks like, now. >> i totally agree, that moment where it like, does sam alito

know more about ulcer medications in the fda? this drug has been regulated more than most drugs on the market, is that fair? >> it's heavily restricted. the fda has based all the decisions on science, the idea that justices who have no research, medical background, are better at assessing the science is ridiculous but that's the role they are trying to take. >> they are looking at this doctrine, the foundation that under guards a lot of that, can you talk a little bit about what your expectations are for the ruling in that case? it could have massive effects much more than just one single

rubric of freedom issue. >> i mean, it is a simple rule that says we deferred to agencies interpretations of how their laws work. we don't second-guessed the experts and scientists and the accumulated years of expertise because we are a bunch of judges in robes and we don't know a lot of dead as you said, that's on the chopping block this year and in some sense it comes hand-in-hand with the major questions doctrine which is another doctrine that is not doctrine and has no roots and anything and is another rule that the court has given itself that says if something is a big deal, president biden's loan forgiveness plan, then we get to decide on that, too. we are seeing the court with this utter lack of humility go from agency to agency and pick

off, as you said, the notion that agencies can enforce their own rules in ways that are reasonable and even in some cases, to say, that's just too big a deal so we are going to decide on that, too. it's a way of knee capping the federal government and of giving to the justices themselves. >> leonard leo, the architect of this says the hard left likes the administrative date because that's how they get their social safety net established and that to this court is going after any big way, not to mention hiding its intentions. back to you for your time and expertise . really appreciate it. next, the number of women using abortion pills and pregnant has surged as the dobbs decision.

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institute, 60% of all abortions in the u.s. were done using abortion medication but in reality, the number could be much higher. a new report from the journal of the american medical association shows most women who chose to self manage their abortions in six months after the supreme court overturned roe v wade, obtained their abortion pills outside of the formal healthcare system, particularly from the networks of volunteers that quickly mobilized and expanded after the decision. some of these networks are here in the u.s., but others are in places like mexico where networks are packing and shipping abortion medication, sometimes for free, to women in america for trying to circumvent harsh abortion bands and in the process, these networks are increasingly witnessing a secondary reality, a rise in sexual violence against migrants, leading to

unwanted pregnancies here in a post-roe america. this is a special report from paulo ramose. >> we are about to talk to a young asylum-seekers who was assaulted on a border town and found that she was pregnant as soon as she got to texas. the only reason she agreed to talk to us is because we will not be disclosing her identity or where we are right now. >> when valentina left el salvador, many of her friends cautioned her against it. they knew about the harrowing experiences of women heading north. >> at what point after entering texas did you find out you were pregnant?

>> valentina found herself in texas, pregnant, and alone. >> were you aware of the strict abortion laws in texas? >> no. >> the pill she are referring to are the fda approved regimen for medical termination of

pregnancy. 60% of all abortions in the united states are done with these pills. 14 republican-led states, including texas, have now banned this medication. valentina found a group that was able to ship the pills to a friends house in a nearby's date. at 14 weeks pregnant, she found herself packing once more, this time, to carry out a self managed abortion. weeks after she returned to texas, valentina managed to obtain more packs of one of the abortion pills she used. she decided to break the law to help women in similar situations. >> were you aware that what you were doing was illegal?

>> do you have any left? >> are you still thinking about helping other women? >> valentina says she no longer provides abortion pills but on the other side of the border, activist work day and night to fill the void.

>> this is evelyn, a young doctor for mexico city as part of an international network helping women obtain this medication. since the overturning of roe v wade, much of that help is being routed to texas. she asked for her identity to be concealed to protect the operation. >> how big is this network? >> where do they contact you from? >> how do you hide these pills? how do you make sure no one

knows? >> many people would ask, what's in it for you? you are not doing it for economic reasons, so why do you do it? >> back in texas, valentina feels the same way. >> you risk your life, your status, why? >> toller almost filed that

special report from south of the border and we hear more from her tomorrow but first, coming up, where there is tragedy, there is conspiracy. how the right-wing is talking about the baltimore bridge collapse, right after the break. ... of doug and limu. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. anyway, we got a bit of a situation here. ♪♪ uh-huh. uh-huh. ♪♪ [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ ghostbusters: frozen empire. in theaters now. feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down and also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels.

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please call or go online to hungerstopsnow.org to help save lives today. will will tonight, the search and rescue mission in baltimore for the six individuals authorities believe were on the french scott key bridge when it collapsed late last night, that

switched from a rescue mission to a recovery effort as all six individuals are now presumed dead. thanks to a live stream of the bridge and police dispatch audio, we know just how close this bridge collapse came to be a bigger disaster. you can see there is a steady flow of cars going over the bridge. this happened moments later. >> one on the north side, hold off traffic on the key bridge. there's a ship approaching that just lost their steering, so until they get that under control we have to stop all traffic. >> i'm holding traffic, now. i have all house traffic stopped. >> in less than 20 seconds police had stopped the flow of traffic on the bridge and 30 seconds after the did, the

bridge collapsed. >> is there a crew working on the bridge right now? >> just make sure no one is on the bridge right now. you might want to notify to get them off the bridge temporarily. >> once the other unit gets here, i will ride up on the bridge. we have all traffic stopped at this time. we have the workers on the key bridge. >> dispatch, the whole bridge just fell over. >> whoever, everybody, the whole bridge just collapsed. >> authorities confirmed the six individuals that they are still looking for the remains of were all members of the crew working on the bridge. they were reportedly fixing potholes.

authorities say there are no signs of foul play and believe this was an accident, but the right-wing is already pushing conspiracy theories that this was a cyber attack that somehow the obama's were a part of or that the real cause was diversity, equity, inclusion programs because the shipping company practice inclusive hiring policies. despite the fact that there are still six individuals now presumed dead whose bodies have yet to be recovered, individuals we now know were construction workers, despite that, the right is desperate to use the tragedy to fan the flames of xenophobia. >> the ship involved in the collapse of the bridge is 948 feet long. a singaporean flag a container. he been talking a lot about the potential for wrongdoing or potential for foul play given the wide open border. >> to my friends in the

conservative media, sometimes it's okay to report on something bad it happened and not blame it on liberalism or brown people. this was an accident, and this was a tragedy. treat it like one. we have one more story for you, tonight. spoiler alert, independent presidential candidate robert f kennedy just made a big decision that could inject chaos into the presidential race this november. more on that, ahead. feeling claritin clear is like... sponsored by claritin. knocks out allergy symptoms. ym. [cat meow] —is she? letting her imagination run wild even though she has allergies. yeah. okay y'all we got ten orders coming in... big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy.

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junior revealed his pick for vice president in oakland, california and her name is nicole shanahan. she is a silicon valley lawyer and entrepreneur and the ex- wife of google cofounder. shanahan has never held office, but she has plenty of money. she donated $4 million to kennedy's super pack to help pay for his very questionable super bowl advertisement and in addition to the cash prize he is selecting his vp now because many states require independent candidates to pick a running mate before they can apply for ballot access. xe is reports the biden campaign already have a has a team in place to fight his candidacy. joining me from oakland's michelle goldberg, opinion columnist for the new york times who cover the announcement in the state of california. thank you for dialing in from the west coast. my first question is, how was the speech? >> her speech? well first of all, she's

obviously not a practiced politician and it really shows. i think there's a bit of bafflement not necessarily among political professionals who assume that kennedy chose her so that she can self fund their ballot access campaign, but i think among quite a few kennedy supporters, there were certainly people who were excited about this pick, but it came after-- the relevant argument going on for at least a couple of hours by the time she came out, her speech was a little bit meandering and digressive and you can see the auditorium which was not that crowded to begin with kind of an teeing out. there was a big difference between when she started and when she finished. >> nicole shanahan is someone who has supported democratic causes. she gave to the biden campaign

in 2020. there is a narrative that kennedy's candidacy hurts biden more than it hurts trump. can you talk a little more about who was in the audience today? >> i know that that's the narrative and it may well be true. i think we don't know and when i've spoken to pollsters and people at the dnc everybody agrees that kennedy is somewhat of a wild-card. coming to oakland which is in the middle of a very progressive part of the country, i think i expected to meet more disaffected democrats and instead what i mostly met, i met some very far left people. one guy who described himself as a socialist. but a lot of the people that i met either voted for trump in 2020, said that if kennedy was not on the ballot they would vote for him in 2024. it was more right-leaning than left-leaning crowd for sure. >> what about he himself? the circuit of last year shows

in a three-way matchup biden at 33%, trump at 36% and kennedy at 22% which is a formidably high number in a close election. how was he as a candidate? >> i would say that on the one hand he certainly speaks to-- he mixes grains of truth or genuine concerns. he speaks to people who genuinely feel somewhat despairing about the division and rank order and wishing to go back to a time of more unity and inspiration and that is all well and good. and then he interweaves that with a lot of conspiracy theories and misinformation. and i think that ultimately, there is obviously democrats who might be attracted to him because of the kennedy mystique and the kennedy name, but you know.

when he's talking about things like order security and social media censorship and vaccine mandates and lockdowns, it's not really democrats that he's appealing to. >> it's a matter of moments before the entire kennedy clan accepting rfk junior is on the campaign trail with joe biden so we will see how that works out. michelle gold. , opinion columnist for the new york times heading up the oakland bureau. thank you for making time tonight. before we go, i have enough it on a story that some of you may have been following in recent days. nbc news has announced that it has dropped former rnc chair ronna mcdaniel as a paid on air contributor. decision comes less than a week after this company announced her hiring, and it is due in no small part to the efforts here both in front of the camera and behind it, to make clear that her hiring was a very serious mistake. a lot of my colleagues in prime time, actually all of them, are

weighing in on this so i'm not going to belabor the point except to say election denial lists do not belong on the payroll of a news organization. people who seek to undermine democracy should not be contracted to work at an institution that seeks to preserve it. tonight the man who was the boss of all of us, nbcuniversal newsgroup chairman confirmed that ronna mcdaniel would not be an nbc news contributor either. in a note to staff he said no organization particularly a newsroom, can succeed unless it is cohesive and aligned. over the last few days it has become clear the disappoint undermines that goal. the last few days we been given license to say what we felt was wrong with this call so i also think it's important to speak up when we feel like the right thing was done. companies make mistakes. sometimes very big ones, sometimes very publicly. what matters especially in the end is how they correct them.