i'm jose diaz-balart. you can always reach me on social media @jdbalart. you can watch clips from our show online at youtube. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," donald trump's lawyers were in court in fulton county, georgia, arguing that most of the charges against him in the georgia case should be thrown out because his false claims about the election being rigged are protected under the first amendment as political speech. prosecuors say the lies about the election were criminal conduct. president biden bringing in the big guns. arriving to share the stage at radio city music hall with presidents obama and clinton in a star-studded democratic fund-raiser. new details about the final

minutes before the massive cargo ship crashed into baltimore's francis scott key bridge. crews found two victims in a pickup truck deep under the waters. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. attorneys for donald trump and one of his co-defendants were back in fulton county trying to get the georgia charges dismissed. after losing their bid to have fulton county prosecutor fani willis disqualified, his legal team is trying to have the charges tossed out, arguing his alleged attempts to stay in power are protected by the first amendment as protected political speech. the judge sounded skeptical. >> some crimes can be achieved through speech, terroristic threats, solicitation.

why is that not what's happening here? >> what we have here, we have election speech. one must determine immediately whether that constitutes core political speech, and i suggest it does. there's nothing alleged factually against president trump that is not political speech. >> he is not being prosecuted for lying. he is being prosecuted for lying to the government, an act which is illegal because it does harm to the government. >> d.a. willis is pushing to go to trial as soon as possible while fending off political attacks from jim jordan, the chair who is threatening to hold her in contempt of congress for refusing to turn over documents she claims he is not entitled to receive. in that classified documents case in florida, donald trump's attorneys filed a petition pushing for another trial delay, citing a scheduling conflict with the hush money trial slated to start in new york next month. all of this weeks ahead of oral

arguments before the supreme court concerning mr. trump's claims of presidential immunity. joining me now, lisa ruben, former u.s. attorney paul charlton, and washington national editor phil rucker. lisa, bring us up to speed on all the arguments in fulton county. >> today's hearing in fulton county was about three motions brought by two defendants, former president donald trump and david schaeffer, who was the chair of the georgia republican party and led the fake elector effort in that state. the argument is that the indictment needs to be dismissed because the allegations against him, no matter how they are framed in the indictment -- he is charged with conspiracy to commit impersonation of a public official by virtue of the fake elector scheme. his lawyer said all the allegations, at their base, go to things that he said. even if those things turned out

not to be true, they are within the realm of what the supreme court would considering core political speech protected by the first amendment. the states' attorneys said, they were not going after trump just for saying things that were untrue. they were prosecuting trump for things like lying to the government. if the arguments taken to their conclusion were held -- upheld by a court of law, things that we prosecute every day, common cases like lying to congress, lying to the fbi, those are charges that have been sustained against people within the former president's own world, those would not be able to be prosecuted if you took the argument to its logical conclusion. the rest of the arguments were about tinkering with things in the indictment. a charge here, a charge there. as you noted at the outset, judge mcafee seemed to be skeptical of all of the

arguments, even the ones that were legally novel like, is it impersonating a public officer if the public officer in question is an elector? does an elector constitute a public officer? those are some unanswered questions, because this case itself is so untested and novel, that doesn't mean on the other hand that the charges that fulton county district attorney willis brought won't be sustained after today's arguments. >> paul, i also heard some skepticism from the judge about some of the arguments about the first amendment. >> i think that's right. he is right to be skeptical. there are many commentators, including former president trump's former attorney general, bill barr, who said that you have the right to lie. politicians lie all the time and prosecutors would be busy if they were just charging prosecution cases against politicians who lie.

here he was enveloping a number of public officials, attempting to get them to buy into a lie, attempting to get them to act contrary to the government, contrary to what our political process would allow. that is that every vote counts. that's the government's theory. that's why it is unlikely this argument that somehow the first amendment would protect him, is unlikely to succeed. there's this other tell, if you will, andrea, that may indicate the judge isn't taking these arguments by former president trump's lawyers to heart. that is that he told all of the parties, i'm going to keep fani willis on this case. you can take an appeal up if you like. i'm going forward with this case. i will continue to hear arguments on this case. from my take, this case will go to trial with an indictment that looks very much like the one today. >> out in california, there's a

related argument, the former trump attorney john eastman, the architect of the fake electors scheme, according to the allegations, one of the co-defendants, could be disbarred in california. the state supreme court has to give final approval. but there's been a preliminary ruling. what do you think? >> precisely right. if you think about punishments that can be given to attorneys, one might be prison. mr. eastman is facing charges in georgia. if prison is the most serious punishment a lawyer for misconduct can receive, the next has to be losing your license to practice law. according to this judge, the language that she used when she issued this order, his name should be stricken from the list of lawyers in california. he has a temporary disbarment while he goes up on appeal to the california supreme court. that is as serious a punishment, absent being put in prison, as a lawyer can receive. it ought to serve as discouragement to any other

attorney who would similarly take up these false claims as it relates to the 2020 elections, or any false claims that relate to the election process in the future. >> phil, the politics of this election is now turning to long island. there's a funeral for an nypd officer. he was killed after approaching an illegally parked car this week. president biden just spoke with the new york mayor about the tragedy today. donald trump's spokesman said he was invited by the officer's family to the funeral. mr. trump's claim that crime is rampant in new york city, when statistics show it's down, every incident, every case is horrible. this murder is horrible of a police officer. speaking to the larger issue of whether crime is a terrible problem in new york city. >> yeah, andrea, we saw this in the midterm elections last year

where a lot of republicans, including in new york state, were running on crime with some limited success. it was not necessarily a winning issue for republicans then. it has been core to trump's political brand. it's something that he has talked about a lot. he tried to link crime to the immigration issue and border security. i think him going to this funeral today in new york is an attempt by him to try to draw attention to the killing of this police officer and try to blame that on biden, even as you say crime is down in new york city, it's down in a lot of cities. it's not down in washington, d.c. here, but it is down in a lot of cities around the country. nonetheless, it's a concern that we see registering in polling, especially among suburban voters and some of those voters that trump really is going to be looking to motivate in the general election. i think we will see him talk about crime and try to make the

state of crime seem a lot worse than the statistics might actually show for the purposes of motivating his supporters and convincing persuadable voters out there. >> phil, one more thing. "the washington post" is reporting that the rnc has kind of a litmus test, you could say, a litmus test of sorts for potential employees asking them whether they believe the 2020 election was stolen. there's an official there pushing back to nbc news saying it was more about ensuring employees knew to detect election fraud. rnc co-chair lara trump said they want to move past 2020. fill me in on your reporting. >> it's the reporting of my colleague. it's a really interesting news story that shows the degree to which trump is demanding loyalty for the people that work at the republican national committee.

he orchestrated a leadership change there. he installed his daughter-in-law as a co-chair. clearly, they are demanding loyalty from all of the staffers, the operatives, the communications people, the ground field organizers, digital organizers. anyone working at the rnc has to believe trump's lies about the election. it shows the degree to which he is demanding loyalty there. >> lisa, paul, phil, thanks to all of you. ftx founder sam bankman-fried has been sentenced to 25 years in prison. he was found guilty in november of orchestrating the multibillion dollar fraud that prompted the collapse of the ftx cryptocurrency exchange. he illegally used the money to cover his lavish lifestyle, including buying luxury property in the caribbean and flying on private jets. power players, presidents obama and clinton answering the call from the current commander

in chief. the fund-raising event to back joe biden for the re-election. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc. s fast and lasts a full 24 hours so dave can be the... deliverer of dance. ok, dave! let's be more than our allergies. zeize the day with zyrtec. it's hard to explain what this feels like. ♪♪ moving piles of earth. towing up to 4,000 lbs. cutting millions of blades of grass. nothing compares to experiencing it for yourself. you just have to get in the seat. hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking. i needed something to help me gain clarity. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. i started taking prevagen and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity. memory is better.

it's been about two years now and it's working for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. three u.s. presidents walking on an iconic manhattan stage tonight, an unprecedented lining of political leaders to try to stop donald trump from getting the white house. they are aiming to wind up with $25 million for the war chest. that's the plan for tonight's democratic fund-raiser at new york city's famed radio city music hall, features obama, biden and clinton. it's a first of its kind. joining me now, mike memoli, and yamiche alcindor and susan page. mike, how important is this event to the biden/harris

effort? they have been campaigning more actively the last couple weeks. since they nailed the nomination. not that it was in doubt. this is a kick start, is it not? star-studded. >> reporter: that's right. the biden campaign may have started slower than democrats would like to see them, but they have now, especially now that the general election picture became clear so early with donald trump becoming the nominee. this is part of a significant effort by the biden team to bring democrats home. i know the biden team quibbles with our focus on poll numbers these days. if you look at a lot of these data points, look at the cross tabs, you see part of the challenge for the president is that democrats are not fully unified behind him in the way they need to be given how close we know the margins will be in some of the battleground states. having that powerful visual tonight of the 42nd, 44th, 46th president of the united states on stage together, biden worked

closely with both men, a lot of his major legislative accomplishments from his time as a senator were in the clinton administration, the partnership as obama's vice president. talking about the past, going down memory, but also talking to the future, that's what i'm told is an important opportunity for the campaign tonight, for all the men to make clear what's at stake in the election, not wanting to go backwards, wanting to go forward. the fund-raising is important. $25 million in one event. that is 60% of the entire cash on hand that donald trump has right now. the biden campaign wanting to press every advantage it can, cash but also showing the establishment of the democratic party is behind joe biden in a way we haven't seen on the republican side. >> trying to regain the spotlight. so many of the big events, like on obamacare's anniversary, are actually overshadowed by things happening in a courtroom somewhere. talk to me about the relationship between president

obama and president biden. it was not always as smooth as it seemed on the surface. >> reporter: right. like any relationship, there have been points of strain. it took some time early in the administration, the obama administration, for the two to build the partnership that we saw develop late in the administration. then, of course, when joe biden was thinking of running for president in 2016, and it was clear the obama team was largely behind hillary clinton, that was a source of friction. that's another part of tonight. they want everyone to see that these two men are as close an alignment as ever. obama on air force 1 with president biden making his way to new york as we speak. i'm told these teams talk all the time, multiple times a day, in anticipation of today's event. obama was at the white house on friday. they recorded that feature around the affordable care act

anniversary. they had a lot of private time. obama telling biden, i'm told by somebody familiar with the conversation, just how powerful he thought the state of the union was, beginning to get momentum for the campaign. they are trading a lot of advice but keeping the personal relationship going as well. >> as they touched down in new york, it takes a while to get there, but i can see security increasing behind you, mike memoli. you might have to move out of the way. susan page, it's interesting to see bill clinton in this group tonight. bill clinton, for a couple of campaign cycles, was not out on the trail, not by his choice but by the choice of the presidential nominees. specifically, al gore in 2000 and even what you saw in 2008 and 2015 and '16 with hillary clinton. she wanted to be her own person. there was always the overhanging of questions about her marriage. >> yeah.

absolutely. what a tableau tonight. look at the contrast with donald trump. george w. bush has not endorsed donald trump. his own vice president, mike pence, hasn't endorsed donald trump. you see a big -- a contrast there, including bill clinton who hasn't been as featured a player in the last couple of elections. you get the sense, i think, of joe biden hitting his stride here on campaign cash, on campaign events. he has got to eight battleground states since super tuesday. after a rough start, he is beginning to find traction here. >> susan, you may recall this. i was at the constitution center in 2004 when john kerry was running. bill clinton had come through heart surgery. he clearly was not in campaign mode. he did it for john kerry.

there was that cycle when he was going through a lot. he is now -- i've seen him recently. he looks terrific. he came back from a trip overseas. yamiche, this is an advantage the democrats have, as susan was pointing out. two former presidents. presidents that still have popularity, a good deal. >> certainly. you really can see that these two presidents are going to try to do as much as possible to really help joe biden get over and really -- get over this issue that people are questioning about his age and whether he can do this. the idea that you have two men who are, we should say, younger than him, but coming out and saying, this is the person the party believes in. that's really important, especially when we think about the fact that over in long island, you will have donald trump going to the wake of a police officer and talking about crime, even though crime is down. democrats really want to be able to have this spotlight today to really say that they can have

juice in what they have been doing on their side. i think it's really important because we talk about these two -- these three presidents coming together. there's this issue of, what's top of mind for people in this country? one of the things that's top of mind, apart from the economy and how their lived experiences are, is the issue of abortion. this idea that the democrats are here trying to say, we have a united force. don't look at the people on the other side for answers. don't look at the people on the other side to make your life better. >> we have pictures of air force one and the fact that, of course, president obama was on air force one. we will see them coming down the steps, we hope. on a rainy day in new york city. when they land, they then generally take a helicopter from there to a landing zone in the city, like wall street, and they have to come uptown. it does congest traffic. donald trump is in new york.

probably staying at trump tower. there's one lane of fifth avenue blocked off right there in midtown, two blocks from radio city. it's going to be quite a tight area right around our headquarters at 30 rock, where mike memoli is. susan page, "the new york times" is reporting that mr. trump has spent more than $100 million on legal bills since 2021. the majority paid by donations. there are concerns his campaign is not mobilizing in several swing states as well. he has had one campaign event. >> yeah. definitely, a big contrast there. >> you can see -- susan, let me interrupt. we have a live picture. i don't know you can see. president biden coming down with president obama. getting into the limo. they did not talk on a rainy

tarmac. that is an unusual picture. i must say, president biden looked as though he was coming down faster than usual. i interrupted you, susan. we were talking about donald trump's sparse campaigning. he is picking up support when he does appear in court and sounds off at some of the pretrial hearings. >> the trials and the indictments haven't dented his support. it's coming him financial problems. he has a significant financial disadvantage against president biden. he has this dilemma ahead of how is he going to pay for the continued legal bills? will donors be willing to contribute when he is taking money for his campaign? but he is taking their money for a supe pac paying his legal fees. >> yamiche, mike, you will have

quite a day there, and susan, thanks to all of you for setting the stage. faithful servant. we remember the life of a longtime connecticut senator and former vice presidential nominee, joe lieberman. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. eporc not flossing well? then add the whoa! of listerine to your routine. new science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa!

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longtime senator joe lieberman, a national voice for

morale it i in politics, died suddenly, due to complications after falling at home. he was the first jewish politician to run on a major party's national ticket, when al gore chose him as his running mate. they lost the white house. as a national voice for morality in politics, he was the first leader to criticize president biden during the lewinsky scandal. he voted against convicting him. in 2008, he endorsed his ally and close friend john mccain for president. >> i'm here to support john mccain, because country matters more than party. i am here tonight for a simple reason, john mccain is the best

choice to bring our country together and lead america forward. >> mccain wanted lieberman to be his running mate but was pressured to choose sarah palin. joining me now is tom nides who was his 2000 vice presidential campaign manager. he was the ambassador to israel from 2021 through july 2023. ambassador, first of all, an old friend, i want to convey my condolences. i was with nicolle wallace at 30 rock when this happened. it was such an emotional moment for her, for having been the press spokesman on that mccain campaign. joe lieberman was beloved in washington. i saw him a couple weeks ago.

i was traveling to the munich security forum, he was on the plane. he was active there. at age 82. this is so sad and so sudden. talk to me about him, the joe lieberman you knew and loved. >> first of all, thank you for having me. there's a word that i think about when you hear mench. it's joe lieberman. i didn't always agree with him, he was a menchy human being. i was picked by al gore to ask to be his campaign manager in 2000. the can't selects someone to be the vice president. i never met him in my life. i show up in connecticut. i knock on his door. hadasa lieberman was at the door, a smart and beautiful woman. she grabs me and whispers in my

ear and says, you take care of joey now. i never met this woman before. my god, okay. i need to see the senator. we needed to go. it's cloak and dagger. we need to get him on a private airport. joey is downstairs because it's cooler down there. i introduce myself. senator lieberman says, we can go now. before hadasa wants you to have lunch. i said, senator, we have to go. this is a guy who cared deeply about the country. one of my big things about judging character is about how the staff and how you treat people. this guy was beloved by his senate staff, his vice president staff. a way that i am just -- i'm honored. his longtime assistant, melissa winter, she was crying on the phone with me last night.

they adored joe lieberman. he cared about them. i'm heartbroken. i saw him a couple months ago as well. he texted me a week ago. he is a true legend, a true friend. yes, he is a true mench. >> i was thinking of the world mench myself. there were times -- you worked on the hill. i covered the hill in those days. there were times the senate would hold up votes on saturday so he could walk from georgetown to the hill, because he would not get in a car. because of his observation of the sabbath. how did that work in the campaign? >> the hardest working 24/6 campaign. i had never worked with a religious person before. i didn't know what the hell was going on. i was trying to figure it out. he is like, tom, it's all good. it's all good. we will work on this together. i remember during the recount, that 30 days that were deciding

who would be president, and i get a call from vice president gore, go pick up joe. i need him at the vice president's house. i said, we need to see the vice president. he said, okay. i said, senator, get in the car. he said, tom, unlike you, i take this very seriously. we will walk. we are walking up wisconsin avenue with 50 secret service agents, tv cameras. that's who joe lieberman was. he was a decent human being. deeply religious. it was all about humanity. it about the little guy, taking care of people. it's about knowing about your family. my father, who passed away, always talked to me about meeting joe. he asked me about my dad.

history will be very kind to who he was as a human being. >> when i last saw him, it was the weekend of navalny's death. zelenskyy was in munich. i was worried he shouldn't be as active as he was being on a plane, flying to munich. he said he cared so much about ukraine and about israel. i want to ask you as the former -- most recently former ambassador, this current tension between netanyahu and biden and to my knowledge, there was tension when netanyahu came without telling the white house, that he was going to address the joint session and block the iran deal. they expanded the settlements under netanyahu and biden almost

left. but this is tough over rafah. not over whether to invade, but how do it, whether it should be a ground invasion with all those people there, 1.2 million, whatever it is, and whether they could be more targeted. the defense minister was here, as you know. the prime minister says he is going to reschedule coming. how tough is this? do you think that joe biden will condition weapons or take other steps other than what they have done this week at the u.n., not supporting a veto on a resolution for the first time that israel opposed? >> first of all, i will let the white house speak for itself. obviously, they have quite strong views about this. i think it's very clear, to put this in perspective, joe biden's relationship with the state of israel and the jewish people has -- is as locked as anyone could imagine. number two, i think our heart

breaks for these families that are held hostage. obviously, hamas needs to be destroyed. i think it's imperative, as president biden has said, how we do this. we need to be surging humanitarian aid into israel, surging that humanitarian aid. that's what this administration has been pushing the israelis to do. there's been more done. but much, much more needs to be done. no one can look at these pictures and be happy about them. i think it's imperative that we try to accomplish a lot of things at the same time. that's what i hope will happen. >> that surging means more land access. you are not going to surge with dropping it in the sea or even getting it in through rafah. >> we can't have children and

adults without food. okay? we can't -- this administration can't stand with that and for that. the israeli government needs to increase it dramatically as president biden said. as someone who has been there, i understand the importance of doing that. at the same time, israel needs to secure themselves. you can and you must do both at the same time. >> thank you for your perspective. thank you so much for your really personal and loving memories and tribute to joe lieberman, someone i cared about as a reporter covering him. thank you. >> thank you. >> it's good to see you. saving speaker johnson. the strategy the democrats could be considering to get ukraine funding through the house. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. skin-carving next level hydration? new neutrogena hydro boost water cream. a vital boost of nine times more hydration* to boost your skin's barrier for quenched,

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president zelenskyy just

tweeted he briefed house speaker johnson on the battlefield situation and the need for u.s. aid to ukraine. that's on the line when congress returns from the easter recess in another week, week and a half. "the new york times" is reporting an intelligence assessment is warning russia is using a harder to detect technique to spread misinformation about the war in ukraine, to help candidates who oppose supporting kyiv. the russian effort has led the treasury department last week to sanction two russian firms. according to this report, russia is using harder to trace technologies to amplify arguments for isolationism. this operation is run by vladimir putin's aides and russian military intelligence at a very high level of the kremlin. it comes as $60 billion in aid for ukraine is still stalled in congress when they went on

recess. joining us now is abigail spanberger, a former cia officer. who was in kyiv last month, along with a bipartisan delegation of committee members. you are running for governor, we should point out. "the new york times" is reporting moscow is using these techniques. does this comport with what you believe to be the reality? >> this aligns completely with what we know to be true of russian behavior. there is substantial information detailing how in the run-up to the 2016 election, the russians endeavored to operate influence campaigns to divide the american people, create division, to create in-fighting, in an effort to have an impact on the

on-the-ground conversations related to our 2016 elections. that's well documented. now, in advance of the 2024 election, the fact that the russians would be operating influence efforts to their own benefit in an effort to divide americans over the issue of our support to ukraine is a clear threat and challenge. the purpose here can be twofold. dividing americans, creating domestic and political challenges and difficult discourse over issues and lies created by the russians. and if they are successful, not only have they succeeded at impacting the thoughts of the american population, but their goal would be to see us not deliver aid to ukraine, because the aid that we deliver to

ukraine helps our ukrainian partners in their ability to defeat vladimir putin's army and this war of horrific russian aggression. it is now more important than ever that members of congress be the responsible adults in the room, explain to our constituents, explain to the american people why it is in our national security interest to continue supporting, along with our partners throughout the world, to continue supporting our ukrainian allies as they fight their war, not just for their own freedom, but for democracy that the united states should want to consistently uphold, certainly at home and with our allies. >> i also want to ask you about the reports that some democrats are promising to protect the speaker from being ousted in

exchange for him acting -- excuse me -- acting on ukraine money. where do you stand on this? >> if speaker johnson brings forth the bill -- the national security supplemental that would fund our support to ukraine, which i think is not just an obligation, but it is also in our best interest, if speaker johnson were to bring this bill forward, a bill that received 70 votes in the united states senate, and as a result members of his republican conference seek to oust him, i would absolutely vote to table that motion, because we need him to do his job, which is to bring bills that will pass for a vote. if he were to bring that bill for a vote and face a motion to vacate as a result, i would absolutely vote to table that motion and shut it down. >> congresswoman, spanberger, i

apologize for the frog in my throat, thanks for speaking with us. >> thanks for having me. baltimore strong. the mood is somber as the investigation continues not far away from the stadium in that deadly bridge collapse. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. [dog whimpers] [thinking] why always the couch? does he need to go to puppy school? get his little puppy diploma? how much have i been spending on this little guy? when your questions about life turn into questions about money... there's erica. the virtual financial assistant to help you spend, save, and plan smarter. only from bank of america.

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hour on what should have been one of the most exciting days in baseball for baltimore, opening day with a new owner and improved roster. the mood is more somber than normal at camden yards. that harbor closed to commercial shipping. the city is mourning because of the collapse of the francis scott key bridge. the governor will be in the stands. there will be a moment of silence to honor the victims of the collision before the orioles throw the first pitch against the los angeles angels, later this afternoon. ryan nobles is inside camden yards. i would say, i wish i was there. so many opening days i have been there. today, it's very different. ryan? today it's very different. >> reporter: yeah, andrea, there's no doubt, and there's still a lot of work that is being done just a few miles from where we're standing in baltimore's harbor as they begin the salvage mission, and of course the recovery mission for

those four bodies that are still remaining inside the water after that tragic collapse just a couple of days ago, and being here at camden yard is important because this is the first major event that's happening in baltimore since that tragedy just a couple of days ago, and while of course there's just the logistics around a huge opening day like this, they're expecting a sold out ballpark. that means thousands of people coming to downtown, but there's also the unifying message of baltimore coming together to kind of all work to recover from this big event, and we're going to see it play out here at camden yards throughout the day. we already see a huge crowd of people that have made their way through -- into the ballpark on famous utah street, which we were on just a few minutes ago, but then later today, right before the first pitch at 3:00, right here on the field behind me, we're going to see those first responders, the people that lost their lives on that day honored right here on the field before the game, and you know, while there's no doubt a degree of sadness because of

what's happened here over the past couple of days, you do get that sense of optimism that baltimoreans are kind of rallying around each other. they understand it's going to take the entire city to recover from that massive disaster and that it's going to be a long and difficult process. they're hoping that recovery process, that optimism, that looking forward begins here today with opening day, with a baseball team, i should point out that they have very high hopes for that are going to do very well in the american league this year, andrea. >> ryan, such mixed emotions today, but thanks very much for being here and for all your work all week. it's been just remarkable. thank you. and workplace pioneers, my conversation with leslie chang about the challenges of women seeking independence, that's next on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. reports" on msnbc.

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the textile manufacturing industry in egypt has been a major corner stone of the country's economy for centuries, yet as journalist leslie chang writes, egypt's percentage of women in the labor force is among the lowest in the world. the number has remained flat for the past quarter of a century. among some groups such as college graduates it has actually fallen. in her new book, egyptian made, women work and the promise of liberation, change examinations the country's manufacturing sector. leslie chang joins me now. leslie, it's such a pleasure to meet you virtually. you've reported so extensively on women in factory work in china as well. how does china exemplify a path forward for women in manufacturing compared to what egypt has not been able to re-create? >> yeah, so i was living in china for about ten years, and i ended up writing a book called factory girls about young women who leave the villages of rural china to work in the factories.

what i found was really amazing, which was that they were able to be empowered, even in a short time, they could start earning money, sending money home to their parents, challenging their parents, dating who they wanted, changing jobs and from being on the lowest on the totem pole in rural china they suddenly became kind of very well-respected people in their villages. so when i moved to egypt in 2011, i lived there for five years, i was curious why or whether this same dynamic would unfold among egyptian women as well. >> what is holding them back? is it the traditional, you know, cultural rules against women being in the workplace that we see elsewhere in the arab world? >> yeah, there are a lot of factors. it's surprisingly complicated. there's the expectation that women should stay home and take care of the family and when a woman works, it's actually seen as negative towards the husband because it shows that he can't provide for his family, but as i looked into it, i found that there are a lot more factors,

and one is economic. for example, in china, what you see is 9% growth year after e year. a woman can earn more in a factory than her family can learn the whole year. can we borrow some money from you to invest in this project, and the young lady might say, no, that's a really good idea. egypt has grown a lot more slowly, so a woman who actually does work in a factory, which is a very small minority, they still can't earn enough money to make a difference and to get their husbands to really respect them and pay attention. so instead i met a lot of husbands who said, oh, my wife is just working for fun to hang out with her friends, when everyone knows working in a factory for ten hours a day is not fun. >> that's for sure. >> so kind of the traditional ideas continue to stay in place because the economic conditions are not right to reward the women who do take the risk to go

out to work. >> and what happens to women who are either divorced, single, widowed, on their own who aren't inhibited by the male partner? >> yeah, so actually i found that to be kind of a strange liberation. i mean, obviously the goal is to marry young and to have kids and to just have a very happy marriage and what i found in the factory was a huge number of the older women who were working there were women who no longer had that dream, either their husband had died or their husband and they had gotten divorced, often in very painful circumstances, and so in a way, they were liberated to work in the factory, but at the same time, this isn't a real liberation because this is not something that anyone aspires to. nobody was saying i'm so glad i'm free now. i can do what i want. they were generically very sad and very traumatized by how their marriages had failed. in many cases they were under intense economic pressure just to make a living and to support their kids. so all the things that we think

of as work being empowering for you, andrea, for me, we go out. we find ourselves. we get respect. none of those things was happening to these women i met who were extremely intelligent and charismatic and had ambition, but still it didn't combine into anything meaningful for them? it's fascinating. it's eye opening. i'm much more familiar with other parts of the arab world than the role of women in egypt, and so thank you very much for bringing this to us, leslie chang and during women's history month, the book is "egyptian made: women work and the promise of liberation." that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us on social media @mitchellreports, and "chris jansing reports" is up right now. ♪♪ good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in