remember instead the bright, charming guy that they loved. >> you are all pretty young to have to go through this. do you feel like this has changed you? >> yeah. >> 100%. yeah. every day you wake up and you think, obviously, something like that can happen. you need to do things that matter. >> life is more precious now. >> he's encouraging us to do a lot of things and i think you still pushing us. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. take you for watching. watchin. this sunday, show of force.

>> i think our democracy is at stake. >> president biden is with obama and clinton. >> it's not just about the presumptive nominee on the other side. it's the positive case for someone that's done an outside job in the presidency. >> will star power and a big cash advantage be enough to win over skeptical voters? >> i'll talk to democratic congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. plus, trials and tribulations. a trial date is set for donald trump's first criminal trial with a gag order on the former president who is now selling bibles to raise money. >> we must make america pray again. >> while house republicans face a shrinking majority as more members head for the exits. >> this place just keeps going downhill, and i don't need to spend my time here. >> how fractured is the gop, and how will it impact 2024? i'll talk to republican don

bacon. and keeping the faith. nbc's savannah guthrie shares hear faith journey and her message this easter in our meet the moment conversation. >> the big message of the book is mostly what god does is love you and his love has nothing to do with our thoughts of him. it has nothing to do with our actions good or bad, it has nothing to do with who we are, it has everything to do with who he is. >> joining me for insight and analysis are katie rogers, white house correspondent for the new york times, former homeland security secretary jeh johnson and ramesh ponnuru of national review. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning and happy easter. the 2024 campaign is intensifying with that historic show of force for president biden from his democratic predecessors barack obama and bill clinton at radio city music hall. the biden campaign also

announcing a new effort to reach out to nikki haley voters using donald trump's own words against him. >> she's gone haywire. >> there aren't that many nerve-trumpers anymore. >> how do you bring nikki haley voters? >> i'm not sure we need too many. >> meanwhile the president stepped up his attacks on the judge and his family in the new york hush money case after that judge imposed a partial gag order on mr. trump less than three weeks from the april 15th start date in that trail, and now trump is asserting that none of the trial should, quote, take place during my campaign, falsely calling the criminal proceedings election interference. it is another reminder that we're covering this election against the backdrop of a deeply divided nation. this week there were signs of how this country has the

incredible capacity to come together. we saw that in baltimore when the country rallied around that community after the collapse of the francis scott key bridge, which claimed six lives. >> we are maryland tough, and we are baltimore strong. so in the face of heartbreak, we come together, we embrace one another, and we come back stronger. >> at an event centered on bipartisanship at the edward m. kennedy institute, i had the chance to speak to two governors this week about what is required for leadership in the crisis like the one baltimore is facing. >> whether it's a flood, whether it's a 9/11, whether it's a calamity like we saw today, you don't know when things are going to happen, but to quickly to happen, convene with your team and develop a strategy and communicate to the public, that, to me, i think, is leadership. >> being with transparency and being on the news and answering

questions and not backing down from everything and being clear about what the metrics are, what the mission is, ooh, that brings everyone's temperature down and allows things to flow so much better. >> joining me now is congressman jim clyburn, democrat from south carolina. congressman clyburn, welcome back to "meet the press," and happy easter. >> happy easter to you as well, and thank you for having me back. >> thank you for joining us on this holiday weekend. i do want to start with that tragic bridge collapse in baltimore. president biden has committed some $60 million so far. that's considered to be a fraction of what is needed. as you know, some of your cog legaling, so fiscal conservative republicans are already saying that they approve more funding for baltimore. what say you, congressman? do you think that congress will ultimately wind up approving more funding for baltimore? >> well, i certainly hope so.

the fact of the matter is, all of us, every state in the nation, all 50 of us, will take our turns needing this kind of assistance. it may be gust storms in some places. it may be a flood or here in this part of the country, hurricanes. we all are subjected at one time or another to some kind of calamity, and we've seen this before. i will always remember how some of my colleagues failed to come to the assistance of a certain part of the country until it came to their backyards, and then all of a sudden, they saw the 23450ed for it. so when i hear my colleagues talk about baltimore in this instance, i remind those especially here in south carolina, we've got a pretty big port here, a very important port, and we've got a very big

bridge that we look upon with pride. what were to happen if that were to happen? what would our response be? so let's just remember that everybody gets their turn in need of assistance, and we ought to be rallying around maryland, rallying around baltimore, doing what is necessary to get that economy back running again to get those people back on the jobs. just remember, that port is closed. a lot of people are out of work and this is not the time of year you want to see that happening. >> all right. well, congressman, let me ask you about some other very big news this week, that historic fundraiser that saw former presidents obama and clinton join president biden, a show of force. they raised more than $25 million.

obviously, energizing the base, no doubt it likely did that, but my question for you, congressman, do you expect to see those former presidents out on the campaign trail routinely? will they be a common presence on the campaign trail? >> i think so, but not to show force, but more to show unity. unity of purpose, to show defense of democracy, that's what's going on here. three former presidents, all three of whom have had their challenges, but every one of them stood for what is right in this country, and that is to protect this democracy and put themselves below the needs, the dreams, the aspirations of the american people. so what we saw in new york last thursday was a show of unity and a show of defense of democracy, and that is what we need in this country at this particular juncture.

>> well, congressman, as you know, looming large over that event, including with some protesters is the war in the middle east, and, in fact, a new gallup poll finds that a majority of all americans now oppose israel's war in gaza, and approval has dropped from 50% to 36% since november. there were a number of interruptions at that fund raiser, and a growing number of democrats are calling this a genocide, including alexandria ocasio-cortez. congressman, do you agree with congresswoman ocasio-cortez that what is happening is, in fact, a genocide? >> well, i would not analyze it to that extent, but i'll tell you this. what is happening is wrong and they need to make it right, and that's what president biden is trying to do, trying to make it right. that poll showed more of a dissatisfaction with netanyahu

than with the people of israel. we stand with the people of israel. we do not like the fact that this country's policy is a two-state solution, and netanyahu has undermined that two-state solution for as long as he's been in office. he sold his soul to the right-wingers in israel in order to maintain power for himself and those people are opposed to a two-state solution. biden is for a two-state solution. democrats are for a two-state solution. that is the only way for us to move forward, and so this drop in support has nothing to do with the people of israel and everything to do with netanyahu. >> congressman, do you think the u.s. is doing enough though? it just approved another order of shipments of munitions and weapons to israel. chris van holland saying, quote, the biden administration needs to use their leverage effectively and should use their base of commitments before

green-lighting more bombs for gaza. commitments to preserve civilian lives is what he's referencing. and should the u.s. be withholding those munition shipments? >> the leverage has to be used, and i think the president is using his leverage. >> but is he using enough of it, congressman? they just approved that new shipment of weapons. >> well, the question is what were the agreements made last year and the year before and whether or not we are going to keep our word. we cannot go back on our word and expect for other people to keep theirs. so we have to keep our word, and so i have no idea what may be in these deals and what the president may be living up to, but the fact of the matter is we must not lose our integrity as a nation, and we've got to stand in support of israel. >> congressman, let me ask you about what's happening in south carolina this week. a federal court ruled that south carolina has to use a

congressional map in the upcoming elections that it called an unconstitutional racial gerrymander after the supreme court failed to weigh in on the case. propublica has a report that you actually worked on republicans on this map to maintain a tighter grip on your own district to ensure that 30,000 black voters would move from a neighboring swing district into your own. was that the case? >> no, that was not the case at all. when someone picks up the phone and asks you what are your suggestions as we are about to get these lines drawn, i offered my suggestions, and i certainly didn't ask for my district to be turned into a minority district, and that's what it is. people keep publishing that i have a majority/minority district. that is absolutely not true.

check the numbers. so when you hear people misrepresenting -- and that's been going on throughout this whole nation for several years now -- we had a conversation. yes, i offered my suggestions. did they follow my suggestions? absolutely not. so when you say you spoke to me and that there's an agreement, that's absolutely not true. and i told the young lady who came to me with that story who happens to be from south carolina or at least she used to work here in south carolina, she was looking to make a headline rather than make any headway. so i would say that i was not surprised at this. remember, the court did the same thing up in north carolina the last time around. they allowed north carolina to go forward with the gerrymandered district that was not fair, so i was not surprised about this at all. >> let me ask you about congress, more broadly speaking, congressman. a growing number of democrats say they would protect speaker johnson from being ousted if he brings ukraine aid to the floor.

do you think that's the case, and would you protect him if there was a move to oust him for bringing ukraine aid to the floor? >> well, let me say, first of all i stand in support of our leader hakeem jeffries. he is in those meetings. he's doing those negotiations. if he were to call me and say, look, i would like to have your vote in support of johnson, he's got it. if he says to me otherwise, i will follow his lead. so i'm not in those meetings, and i have no idea what the result of those meetings may be, but i stand in firm support of the leadership of the party. and let me say if i might, you mentioned south carolina. i want to mention something about north carolina. come thursday the vice president is going to be back in north carolina with 30 -- i'm sorry,

$20 billion to fight climate change and to lower the cost of energy in north carolina, and i might add, joe biden did not win north carolina the last time around, but he's demonstrated once again that he's going to be a president of all the people irrespective or whether or not they voted for him in the election. >> congressman, quickly, before i let you go, we live in a very divided moment. this is easter. what is your message about bipartisanship. is it possible? >> i sure hope it's possible. i know this. we are now calling easter resurrection sunday, and i would hope that we can resurrect those things that have made this country great. i often said that this country has no need of being made great. we are great. we've all got to work together

to make this country's greatness accessible and affordable for all of its citizens be it education, energy, health care, whatever it is. those greatnesses must be made available to everybody, and we ought to do that on a bipartisan basis. yes, let's have the contest. i love the contest. i love a campaign, but when the campaign is over, let's work together, and let's do what is necessary for this country to maintain his greatness. i have nothing against republicans. my parents were republicans. i worked very closely with the republican governor of south carolina because we want to make sure that energy, broadband, healthcare, education get to everybody. so that's -- i would hope that we can convene on a bipartisan basis and resurrect the

goodnesses of the american people, and maintain the greatness of these united states of america. >> all right. congressman clyburn, thank you so much. i hope you have a very happy easter. thanks for joining us on this easter sunday. >> thank you very much for having me. and when we come back, former president donald trump faces his first criminal trial as the house faces a dwindling gop majority. will the fractured republican caucus come together for relief? republican congressman don bacon joins us next. an congressman don joins us next.

welcome back. congress left town for a two-week recess after passing a bipartisan bill to keep the government open, but without passing aid for ukraine. speaker johnson has yet to bring to the floor the $95 billion senate aid bill passed more than six weeks ago but opposed by

many conservative members of the house republican caucus. in light of the delay, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy spoke to the media of the increase in russian air power and the near-depletion of ukrainian ammunition posting quick passage of u.s. aid by ukraine by congress is vital. joining me is retired congressman don bacon of nebraska. welcome back to "meet the press" and happy easter to you. thank you for joining us on the holiday. >> thank you, kristen. happy easter to you and all of the folks listening today. it's a very special day for all christians. thank you. >> we really appreciate you being here because i know it is a busy day. i want to start right there with aid to ukraine, which i know you strongly support, and as i just mapped out, it hasn't been brought to the floor for a vote.

so my question for you is when congress gets back from recess, how confident are you that this aid will be passed and how is it going to happen, congressman? >> speaker johnson is an honest man, one of the -- he truly walks his faith. he doesn't talk his faith. he walks his faith. he's committed to making this the first, the top priority when we return back to washington, d.c. most of the republicans that i work with, they want military aid. they are not in support of all the humanitarian aid that was in the senate bill. so myself with brian fitzpatrick of pennsylvania and also working with democrats, chair ed golden, we put a bill together that focuses on military aid, a $66 billion bill that provides military aid to ukraine, israel, and taiwan. we also put together a border security package in that. we put this in as a discharge petition and it gives the speaker and the house to amend our package. we'll get a bill that focuses on military aid, and i know the speaker also wants to have the repo after we possess the russian assets to this and it

may come in the form of loans and it's very important on the republican side that we just don't give president biden a blank check. and why is that? a lot of weapons that ukraine needs the president has not given them like long range weapons and they provide a stalemate in ukraine. why not give ukraine the weapons that are higher tech, more capable to help them prevail on the battlefield. so we want to force the president's hands on the kinds of weapons that we will provide. >> congressman, as you know, president biden's been asking for this funding, which would allow him and the u.s. to provide more weapons and tacms for seven months. is that not the case?

you mentioned the loan is something that donald trump supports, do you think that this is the way it gets through? through a loan? >> i think there will be segments of the funding that will be a loan. it won't be the whole thing, but i will say the president has had the ability to provide attack 'ems all along and has not done it. if we do this bill, and i think we will, there's enough support in the house to get this done, and i want to make sure we have support in the senate. i don't want to do a ping-pong or send it back over the senate. this has got to be a bicameral, bipartisan solution, but we want to force the president's hand -- >> they sent over a bill months ago, congressman. the senate did send over a bill months ago, and it got stalled in the house. >> well, it didn't have a lot of bicameral support. it had over $30 billion in humanitarian aid, and there's not that amount of support for humanitarian aid. they just did a $50 billion humanitarian aid, and germany's committed more.

we think our role has been more military aid because that's what we're good at, and i'm optimistic we'll get this done in two weeks, and i want to make sure it's bicameral because i don't want to send a bill over to the senate, and it doesn't go anywhere, and that's been my main concern. i have a commitment for the speaker and the foreign affairs committee that we'll put this on the floor and get a vote. >> that's significant. you have a commitment from him and you heard it here. let me ask you about the speaker of the house because you know that some republicans oppose him putting a ukraine aid bill on the floor. do you think he could lose his speakership over this, congressman? >> it's possible. i'm not going to deny it. we have one or two people that are not team players. they'd rather enjoy the limelight, the social media, and the fact is with a one-seat majority -- and we'll end up with a four- or three-seat majority after the special

elections, and it's not three or four or five people and one or two people can make this a minority. i'm of the view that you work with the team. i don't want to get 100%. 80% is the ronald reagan rule, but we have some people that if they don't get 100% they want to bring the house down and they make it dysfunctional. i do think that's a possibility. i do think there are democrats who do not want to see this election and they don't want to be there for a vote and after the bill we may have a standoff with the speaker. i hope the speaker prevails. he's doing the right thing. it's in our national security interest that ukraine remain independent. >> all right, we have a bunch more to get to, so let me turn to impeachment. you said back in december, quote, once we realize there's not a high crime or misdemeanor, we should move on. has that moment come, in your view? >> well, right now the lawyers and the committee that i talk to say there's not a specific crime. you need that for a high crime or misdemeanor. i think the investigation

merited an investigation, put the facts out and let the public look at it and make a determination, and i think it's good to be transparent, especially for an election year, and let's put the facts on the table. but when i talk to the lawyers on a committee staff, they say at this point there's not a specific crime that's been committed. >> so is it time to drop it, congressman? based on what you're saying is it time to drop it? >> i don't know if it's time right now, but i do think we're probably nearing the conclusion of this investigations, and i think it was important for the american people to see that, yes, there was $24 million that the family raised and the money that was moved around in and that within itself was not a high cream or misdemeanor. >> let me ask you this week, the gop nominee, presumptive nominee donald trump shared an image of president biden bound and

restrained in the back of a pickup truck. the biden campaign responded and said that trump is regularly inciting political violence. the former president also attacked the daughter of the judge overseeing his hush money trial in new york. given that you have endorsed donald trump, do you also endorse this threatening rhetoric, congressman? >> i don't support the rhetoric. by the way, we see rhetoric on both sides. i'm the target of a lot of rhetoric on both sides, and i want us to raise the bar of civility and how we treat the other side of the aisle for sure. now, i don't think he was inciting violence, but it is representative of the political dialogue we have today, and i see it first hand. i get the same treatment from the left and the right right now. our country's better than this. we're the strongest country in the world, and we are the best country to live in, but we're not going to remain that way if we treat our opponents in this way, and so that's the first thing i want to raise. we've got to be a lot better with how we dialogue with the opposition. secondly, when it comes to this election, we don't need that.

the issues around our side and our district. the number one issue, the number two issue, and the number three issue is the border. >> yeah. >> we should be focusing on these issues and quality of life and we will win. >> congressman, let me follow up with you, you say he's not inciting political violence and he has made threatening statements about the daughter of this judge. is that appropriate? is that appropriate to be going after judges and their family members? >> i'll just say it this way, that's not how i talk. i will lead by example on this. i think in my debates with my opponents, i focus on the issues, and that's how we win. and i think in nebraska and the midwest, we don't like the nastiness. we have a phrase here, nebraska nice. it's real. so we could win on the issues and that's what we should focus on. >> donald trump is making the case, as you know, that he deserves total immunity. the supreme court set to hear arguments in that case. do you think that a president deserves total immunity, congressman? >> no.

all americans have to live by the law, and we're all accountable for our behavior, and so especially after you leave the presidency, everybody, any individual can be held accountable through the legal system, and so, bottom line, every american is equally held responsible under the law. >> okay, let me ask you finally, if i can, obviously there's been so much focus on the bridge collapse in baltimore. we've been talking about the fact that the response so far has been bipartisan. some fiscal conservatives are already saying that providing more funds to baltimore would be like robbing peter to pay paul. what is your assessment? do you think more funding should be approved, and on this easter, what is your message about bipartisanship and the possibility of working together on something like this >> so you have two questions there. first, the federal government does have a role with this bridge.

i don't think it should be the sole payer, but it is in partnership with maryland and make the local authorities. it is a federal highway, and the constitution we have, it's responsible for infrastructure, so there is a role there, and i think the federal government has to do its part. on easter, i just -- we have to remind ourselves that first of all, this -- resurrection sunday, it shows that god has power over death that we have eternal future with him with faith and we can't forget that. it's the most important day of the year for our faith. secondly, i think our faith calls for the golden rule. it calls for the fruits of the spirit in galatians that we should treat each other with respect, decency, and i think as christians, sometimes we forgot that in this political debate. we can't allow ourselves to be,

-- we've got to hold a higher bar here, and remember the golden rule as we work out the issues facing our country. >> all right, congressman don bacon, thank you so much. we appreciate it. when we come back, the party's popular ex-presidents raise big dollars for the current occupant of the white house. will the high bank roll make up for president biden's low poll numbers? the panel is next.

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welcome back. the panel is here. katy rogers, "new york times" white house correspondent and author of "american woman: the transformation of the modern first laid from hillary clinton to jill biden." also with us, jeh johnson and ramesh ponnuru.

katie, i want to start with you. three presidents raised more than $25 million. will it make a difference? actually, they raised 26 million, and i was texting with the campaign to get final numbers and it does make a difference. it's more than $6 million more than trump raised last month with the whole month of february. so it makes a difference because they are going to pump that money back into battleground states. i think you mentioned nikki haley at some point on the show, but they're using that money to target voters who are open to anyone but trump, so basically the campaign's point is we're going to use all this money we're raising on voters, which is different than how the trump campaign will use their money. >> jeh, you know president biden and former president obama. is obama going to be a big presence on the campaign trail? what are you expecting? >> good question. for the, you oversee the secret service for three years, you notice things. and i watched the two of them

get off air force one, and obama's following biden because he's the former president and he strides down the stairs and he did what he did for eight years which is head straight for the beast, the right here seat and all of a sudden you realize, oops, left turn, that's president biden's. it's interesting that seeing them on stage, it's a reminder they were elected for distinctly different reasons. obama was next gen, new energy, new intellect that transcended race. clinton was, it's the economy, stupid, and biden is battle for the soul of our nation, save us from the insanity. i hope the biden people, and those rationales don't translate easily from one campaign to the other. i hope that the biden people don't overlook the fact that the save us from the insanity rationale is even more compelling now than it was election 2020 when you look at what's happened since. january 6th, the criminal prosecutions and president biden's rhetoric has become even

more extreme than it was in the run-up to 2020. so that case is even more compelling now than it was four years ago. >> you take me to ramesh. ramesh, what do you make of the rhetoric that we are hearing from former president trump, this image that he's tweeted out of president biden tied up in the back of a pickup truck. maybe it energizes the base in a primary, but it plays a little differently in a general election, right? >> i think one of the peculiarities of this particular campaign matchup is that each of the candidates would be better off keeping a low profile and letting the public focus on the other guy because when the public focuses on either of these candidates, it tends to think about the things that it dislikes about those candidates. what we're seeing from trump is more of what has kept him a persistently unpopular figure, but it might not matter if biden is unpopular enough. if he stays at these numbers

through november, of course, the fact that trump is saying these incendiary things isn't going to matter. >> yet this all comes, katie, against the backdrop of these court cases. the first court date is april 15th, we now know. it plays very differently in the general. >> i kind of disagree on that. i think that the biden campaign and the white house, although biden has directed everyone on down to not comment on the legal proceedings themselves, they're using this as an opportunity to really talk aggressively about trump's behavior, hour dangerous his rhetoric can be, but also if you noticed in recent days, they're using his messaging to how absurd trump can be. he tweeted about winning his own golf tournament at his club, and the president said congratulations, what an accomplishment.

they're using this to draw contrast without talking about the legal problems. >> some democrats want the president to get more aggressive about donald trump's legal problems whachlts do you think? >> i think it's unavoidable. the legitimate case to be made here is how can you vote for someone for president who is under four different federal criminal -- four different felony indictments who may well be convicted of a serious felony by election day. i think that's a legitimate question to ask voters. so they have to impress this. >> it will reinforce trump's core message, which is that my political opponents are using these cases to persecute me. that's why biden has been trying to stay out of this. he doesn't want to be in the center of this story. >> the difference between the primary and the general election plays out very differently. >> i also believe the most extreme part of trump's base accepts that, believes that, that he's being persecuted in some way. i don't believe swing voters buy that. >> i think the president has been pretty direct about trump

lately in terms of in fundraisers in particular talking about he believes he poses a grave danger to democracy in addition to everything else. >> katie, very quickly, we have about 30 seconds left. you have a book "american woman" do you anticipate the first lady jill biden will play a significant role on the campaign trail? she's made powerful statements. >> she launched "women for biden" last month. she's going to launch "educators for biden" in april. she goes on campaign swings regularly and spent all last weekend in california. she is a potent fundraiser and the most popular surrogate he has so she will have a voice and presence. >> just about ten seconds. we've seen michelle obama play a big role for former president barack obama on the trail. >> absolutely. she was definitely a campaign

asset. >> okay. great. thank you all for a great conversation on this easter. i appreciate it. i hope you all have a great holiday. well, he was a highly respected senator on both sides of the aisle. our tribute to the late senator joe lieberman when we come back. stay with us.

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also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. welcome back. we want to take a moment to note the passing of former senator joe lieberman of connecticut. he served in the senate for 24 years and made history as the first jewish candidate on a white house ticket as al gore's running mate. a piercely independent voice, he served both as a democrat and an

independent during his time in the senate and bucked his party in 2008 to support the presidential bid of his friend john mccain. lieberman was a candidate for president in 2004 and the democratic nominee for vice president in the tumultuous 2000 election. he joined "meet the press" 12 days after the votes were cast in 2000 with the results hanging in the balance. >> i think the most important thing i've learned and i hope it's the most important thing the american people have learned is there every vote counts. this is something that we -- politicians always say in campaigns, and i think the public may view it with some skepticism, but boy, look at this election. the second thing i've learned is that the system is resilient.

our democracy is resilient, and courts are there to do the right thing, and i think ultimately when there is a dispute that cannot be settled in the legislative branch or an executive branch or in the political press, the courts are there not as democrats or republicans, but as individuals sworn to uphold the rule of law who will mediate and ultimately conclude this controversy. >> senator lieberman was 82 years old. >> senator lieberman was 82 years old.

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she shoots from here? that's kinda my thing. you know her as the co-anchor of the "today" show, but now savannah guthrie is showing a new side of herself, her relationship to her faith. while she doesn't consider herself a theologian, savannah says like so many americans she has had a spiritual journey school to choir practice, she always saw god as the sixth member of her family.

in her new book, mostly when god does, savannah explores her relationship with god and how it has impacted the biggest moments of her life. ahead of this easter sunday, i sat down for a very special "meet the moment" conversation with my nbc news colleague to discuss what she's learned while reflecting on her deeply held beliefs. >> why did you want to write this book now? >> you know, no one is more surprised than me that i wrote a book about anything, let alone about faith and about god. it's definitely the most personal and vulnerable thing i've ever done. >> well, as someone who has known you for a long time, i have to say one of the most beautiful parts of reading this book is that i hear your voice in every word. really, i felt like i was sitting with you for better or worse. i think the world gets to hear your voice every morning on tv, but how did you find your written voice? your literary voice?

>> i love to hear you say that because we are dear friends and i've had many of my friends say this is so funny reading this is like sitting and having coffee with you. >> it really is. >> or more likely wine in my case, but i wrote my own thought. i tried to make it very simple, very plain, very down to earth, very accessible. it's not a religious tone. i'm the first to put the disclaimer on and say i'm not a biblical scholar, i'm not a theologian, and i'm not offering myself up as an example of piety and religious learning, and i east just a regular human who has walked in faith and out of faith in years and years, and these are some of the things i've learned, and i didn't learn them because everything went well. i learned them mostly when things went wrong and disasters

and disasters often of my own making, and the thrust of the book is very simple. it's simple and not easy, and it's called mostly what god does and the rest of the sentence is mostly what god does is love you. >> as you say, you are a person of faith. you grew up with god as the sixth member of your household. you say -- what do you say to people who feel like they've lost their faith? how do they find it again? >> i understand, and i think god understands. we live in a broken world. this is not the world that god intended and there are hard questions, and i try to talk about those things. where is god in a world that looks to be full of injustice and despair and suffering whether it's when we do in our business by looking at the news every day or whether it's lives lived where disappointment mounts and heartbreak seems constant. i ask those questions, what are we supposed to believe about god? how are we supposed to find him? i don't answer all of the existential questions of the universe that are unanswerable. spoiler alert. if i did, the book would probably be longer, and i'd charge more, but i don't think it is a mistake, and i don't think it is a lack of faith to grapple with those doubts, and the number one thing i say is

bring those doubts to god. bring your whole self to god. he's not afraid of the question. >> and you do write very candidly of the most painful times in your life, losing your father. i remember my friends asking if i can still believe in god if his sudden death at the age of 49 had maybe doubted my beliefs. no, i said, this is when i need god the most. savannah, i think a lot of people still wonder how were you able to keep your faith and find such a strong relationship with it all these years later despite such a devastating loss at such a young age? >> you know, when i said that to my friends, i was 16 years old, and that was my first reaction. no, i can't give up god. i can't lose my dad and god, not at the same time, but the rest of my life is a story of any kind of relationship where there's been a breach of trust,

and when we have things that come to us that are hard and we have suffering, it is a breach of trust. i write about this. i don't think that god is the author of evil, suffering, and death. this is not the world that he intended, but the fact of the matter is and this is what's so difficult and this is the crucible of faith, for whatever reason, reasons we cannot possibly understand right now. he does permit it. this world is still going on in a broken way that is full of heartbreak and it is very understandable to ask where is god in those moments, and that is what my life has been about, asking those questions. and i think that what i've learned is that it is a relationship. i believe and this is my leap of faith that we will one day a better world on earth as it is in heaven and until that day we are asked to believe and just draw close to god and believe that he will draw close to us. you're very candid about the moments in your life when you did not feel close to god, when you could not access your faith.

you are doing the hard work. you started that very early with vail by taking her to church and your mom said to him -- >> people keep asking me, do you talk your children to church? yes, i drag them to church, yes, do i. >> and you do the work yourself. >> you have to do the work, but you're right. it's very candid. i write about taking not months, not days, not a few weeks and years, but yes, i believed in a distant kind of way, but it's not like i was waking up every morning doing bible study or had some pious practices or was even living a life that i would want to hold up to some religious scrutiny. no, i was a regular person, and there were times in my life when i was disappointed with the way things turned out that i probably did blame god and i just kind of checked out, and what i learned is that it

doesn't matter how much we think of god. it does not matter what we think of god. it doesn't change how he thinks about us. it does not matter. it does not change how he treats us. so this is the big, i think for me, the big a-ha, the big message of the book is god loves you, and his message has nothing to do with our thoughts of him. it has nothing to do with our actions good or bad. it has nothing to do with who we are and it has everything to do with when he is. >> and you say that having children made you understand god's love for you. how? how did that revelation happen? >> i mean, you know this being a mom there's a revelation in every single way, but spiritually it really was, too. there was a moment when i realized when my daughter was born, of course, this love that was unimaginable to me before and unlike any other i'd experienced because it was the closest i think i'd ever been to e understanding how god wree lats to us.

a mother and father's love for their child is unconditional. again, it doesn't matter how they act. on their worst day, your love is no different for your daughter no matter what she does, even if she's a snarly thing, there is not one thing you could say for or against that would make you change your mind about her. when you realize that that's how god feels about us it's stunning. it's stunningly intimate and tender. it's almost too good to believe. >> you're having this conversation as we prepare to celebrate easter. >> yeah. >> what does easter mean to you, and how do you make sure that it is a day that is filled with faith even while you're doing easter egg hunts?

>> we do it all. >> and the big meal. >> every year i'm, like, count the eggs. we'll find one in july, and it's going to stink, and so we do all the stuff. we got the easter bunny. it's fun. why not? but we do go to church, and i do try to remind my kids why this day is so joyous, and you know, it's an interesting metaphor for life because of course, in the christian tradition easter is the resurrection and it comes after a day of darkness and a day of sorrow, but the sunday morning is so full of joy because we know what we've lost. we know how dark it can be so when the light comes, it is magnificent, and that's the joy of easter. >> and just what is your easter message for everyone? >> i guess my easter message is remember that you are loved. you, specifically, everything about you. you are loved. you are adored. you are light. hold it in your heart if even for a split second and if you can do that today, don't forget to do it tomorrow. >> our thanks to savannah for that great conversation. finally, we want to acknowledge a somber milestone.

it has been one year since "wall street journal" reporter even gesh co-vich was imprisoned in rush for doing his job. on friday the newspaper published this powerful front page, an empty space where all of evan's work over the last year should have been. here at "meet the press" we join our colleagues at the journal and news organizations across the country in saying that journalism is not a crime. that is all for today. thank you for watching. happy easter. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." \s 5am \e that's right, it's easter, the time of year when i can bear myself through jesus christ. it's just the thing i do now and people seem to be okay with it. i'm going to keep doing it. and if you think this is a

bad look, imagine how