concerns about bobby's campaign is really based on the polls that you showed at the beginning of this program is that bobby's campaign really is siphoning votes from biden. and it could absolutely contribute to trump winning the presidency. and i think that that to me is the greatest concern. and i think that one of the reasons that i felt compelled to speak is because i feel if i don't say something, because he does have our name, kennedy, that people will think our entire family is with his views. and i think it is important to put out there that there are people who don't agree and have very big concerns about his

candidacy. >> well, i appreciate that, rory kennedy. best of luck with the documentary. you can watch it tonight at hbo. that is tonight's readout. inside tonight with jen psaki starts now. >> good evening from washington, i'm michael steele in for my friend jen psaki who is wrapping up a well deserved vacation and will be back with you next week. we have a lot to cover tonight so settle in. i do want to begin with a headline. trump employs images of violence as political fuel for reelection fight. now you might be thinking, yeah, i saw this over the weekend. after all, donald trump posted a video on his social media depicting president biden with his hands and feet tied up in the back of a pickup truck. and at the same time on that

same site, trump not only lashed out at the judge presiding over his trial but also at the judge's daughter. so yeah, i would say he is employing images of violence in his reelection fight right now. that headline is not from over the weekend. it is from september of 2020, almost four full years ago. and the fact that it very well could have been published today should serve as a stark reminder that donald trump has always been this guy. he's halls been the guy who glorify political violence, always been the guy who operates outside of the typical norms of politics, business, and law, who twists the systems into pretzels any chance he gets. he has always been the guy who breaches protocol more times than he has abided by it. just because he has done all of

these things before doesn't mean we should normalize it or even be numb to it. and manhattan d.a. alvin bragg sure isn't becoming numb to it. no, he's not. later today, attorney bragg urged the court to push back on trump's behavior. he wants the judge in the criminal hush money case to expand the gag order to also protect family members of trial participants. he writes that trump's dangerous violent and reprehensible rhetoric fundamentally threatens the integrity of the proceedings and is intended to intimidate witnesses and trial participants alike. he points out that there is no constitutional right toing target the family of the court. defendant knows what he is doing and everyone else does too. and we all know that is very true because we have seen it with our own eyes. trump has brought violence to our politics and he has brought

disorder to our legal system. he has turned every courtroom he enters and there have been many, into a circus. using hallways like a soap box to spew outrageous and inflammatory lies. he is in effect putting his trials on trial. he has intimidated witnesses, violated gag orders and has relentlessly attacked anyone holding him accountable, including judge juan marshen and his daughter who is a private citizen. at the end of the day, we know afshg we need to know about donald trump. we know who he is. despite all his bad behavior, these judges are still giving him the benefit of the doubt as if he were an ordinary defendant. no one else, no one else could ever get away with the crap that donald trump gets away with. he is acting like a visceral

animal in politics, business, and law. that's the constant. that's the one thing we know. that is not changing. so enough is enough. the system now needs to adapt to the thing in front of it before it is consumed by that very thing. on that point, we have breaking news. judge mar shon has decided with attorney bragg moments ago. he expanded the gag order to include family members of the court and the d.a.'s office. joining me now is mary mccourt, forming acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department. also with us is former federal prosecutor glen kirschner. let me start with you, glen. the d.a. just came back with the ruling. he has been scouring over the paper here. what did you find in this and what should we know about what the judge has done?

>> i would say predictably, the judge expandsed the gag order to include family members of the judge, court staff, prosecutor's office. that's wonderful. donald trump is laboring under a hat trick of shut up because there are three gag orders in place over time. judge chutkan, judge engorren and now the hush money case but i call it the 2016 election interference case that includes hush money payments that were covered up with false business records has it helped? you said donald trump is putting his trials on trial. he is putting the criminal justice to the test and the system is failing. i say that because you just read the first sentence from the motion filed by attorney bragg.

it reads defendant's dangerous, violent rhetoric fundamentally threatens the integrity of the proceedings and intended to intimidate witnesses and trial participants alike including this court. to this prosecutor, the only sentence that makes sense coming after that assertion, therefore the people are moving for pretrial detention. listen, we have four criminal cases across four jurisdictions. there are different rules in every jurisdiction but the fact that no judge and no prosecutor has stepped up to put a stop to trump's dangerous rhetoric is a real problem. >> and mary, that's where glen put his finger on the pulse of what irritates the heck out of me about all of this. that sentence should follow the beginning of that. what is your take on the judge's expansion of the gag order? and how do you see other judges in other trials that trump is

before assessing the dealing with the ruling? >> i think the reason he expanded the gag order was less about his daughter and more about the message trump gets if he doesn't expand it, more about the message that potential jurors get if he doesn't expand it. i think he is now very worried. this is something that the d.a. raised in their papers, very worried that people will be extremely reluctant to serve as jurors. witnesses are going to start to become reluctant, and maybe even be nervous about telling the truth on the stand because they feel they are targeted, jurors, witnesses, trial participants, as well as their families. to me, this was the judge saying, look, i've got to take this step here to send a message that the administration of justice will not be impinged by this conduct of donald trump. he also says we are not in a david and goliath situation where the government is all powerful because trump himself

has a bully pulpit about as substantial as any. >> right. so let's pick up on the bully pulpit idea. what donald trump's lawyers have argued is that he has the constitutional protection of free speech to say these things, to go after mefrpen's daughter. how does that factor into this ruling and it is an element that prevents what glen says should happen next from happening? >> there is no question that defendants have first amendment rights but the rights can be contrained when you are in a courtroom facing a trial in a criminal case and civil case. the supreme court has been clear about that. it's the obligation of the judge to ensure that the defendant's behavior will not impact the administration of justice. that could be through things like gag orders. it is through other restraints too. the point is you have to ensure that the defendant gets a fair trial but that means the public

and the government get a fair trial as well. it works both ways. one of the things that glen pointed out and we have talked about in other shows, the judges, even when they issued the gag orders, in the two criminal cases, they did not make those part of the conditions of release and required trump to sign that he understands the conditions, now expanded and if he violates them, his release can be revoked. instead, the remedies here are things like contempt of court for violating court order. now that can result in time in jail so it is not toothless. but for those of us former prosecutors, it is unusual that these restrictions on speech were not just incorporated into the conditions of release. >> so donald trump will violate this gag order in three, two, one. when that happens, what happens?

mary points out that you don't have the defendant deciding, okay, i acknowledge this and all this can happen to me. how do you see this playing out when this happens because you know it will? >> financial fines and who cares? there were some minor fans put in place in the civil case when he violated the gag order. i agree with mary. entheory, you can be held in contempt and confined for a brief period of time. but i go back to the fundamentals of the law. the law orderinarily says when you are a defendant on pretrial release, particularly in serious felony cases and donald trump has four serious felony cases, if there is clear and convincing evidence that you pose a danger to the community or even one person in the community, you can be detained pending trial to neutralize the threat. >> can i push on that point. you pose a danger to the community. people when they hear that, they

are think thinking this guy is a violent actor, someone who has harmed someone and now being prosecuted. this is in one sense, a situation where there is no physical harm. it is just donald trump running his mouth and saying crazy stuff that may or may not result with some idiot picking up some action. how does that get squared by the court in a situation like this where that language at least intew tivly to someone that is listening to it from outside of the system would say, that would refer to someone who has raped someone or shot someone, or done physical harm to someone. >> yeah, so let me rely on what one of the appellate court judges said not two blocks from here do the d.c. court of appeals when donald trump's lawyer made that point. wait a minute, he's not responsible for what his supporters do after he posts something and the judge said wait a minute.

there is a clear pattern here. donald trump posts the name of a witness and threats ensue. he knows this. he can't disavow it. it is what he intends by posting the names and photos, not to mention he was seen holding a baseball bat midswing at the prosecutor's head. so let's not say, these aren't crimes of violence. donald trump is all about violence. he's just using his words to accomplish his ends. >> so what does that mean for average joe and jane out there who is a potential juror in one of these trials. they are seeing this and hearing this and i really get what glenn is saying about anticipating that and saying everything is off limits now, family, court clerks, and all of that. does that really give some solace to a potential jury pool?

or should i put something else in my coffee? >> so that's what judge merchan is trying to do. the defendant is ordered that a violation of the order will result in sanctions which are the contempt sanctions. he is trying to send a message, i take this seriously. don't be worried joe and jane potential jurors because we will take action. i don't know if that is good enough. we will see what donald trump does. to your point in the opening about violence and to glenn's point, i think what we are on right now is a slow or not so slow development of a long range of incitement to violence. we have the photos of president biden and the hog tied and kidnapping in the back of the truck. we have incendiary, violent remarks about witnesses, prosecutors, and judges. and this is all about getting

his base ready to take action. and you know, unfortunately, our law doesn't protect incitement to imminute violence. but that violence, he wants it to come. that's why he is doing it. and i think there is a high likelihood that it will come. imminence is really hard to judge with a man like donald trump. >> all right. thank you guys very much for being here at the moment it all pops. really appreciate it. coming up, more breaking news, donald trump has just posted his bond in his new york civil fraud case. tristan snell is standing by, former assistant attorney general in new york. he joins me in about 60 seconds. joins me in about 60 seconds. i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios.

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the civil fraud case in new york that he is planning to appeal. it was provided by the california based company knight insurance. joining me now is tristan snell, former assistant for new york who led the office's investigation into trump university. he is also the author of the book taking down trump, 12 rules for prosecuting trump by someone who did it successfully. tristan, thank you for joining us. i know you are just pouring through the filing. but what stands out to you and what are you finding? >> well, first off, i'm still trying to get information as you are. i really hope that is $175 million and not is $175,000. that was way to low in my opinion. i think the appeals court botched this by letting him get

off the hook and being able to post much less and giving him more time to do it. as i said i can it is akin to taking a team that was going to lose a basketball game by 40 points and giving them 5 more minutes to play and lowering the hoop from 10 feet down to 6. it shouldn't have happened. now we see where it gets us. >> so just to clarify for everyone, it is $175 million. so where does this take us now in the appeals process? what does it look like? what should we be expecting? >> look, there was always a chance in this situation that the court would lower the amount that trump would have to pay. there is also a chance that they could vacate or overturn the judgment entirely. the odds of that are lower. i think there is an absolute mountain of evidence supporting the finding of fraud in this case. it is possible and now it looks

likely that the appeals court will lower the award down from $464 million down to something that i still hope is going to be north of $175 million. we have to remember something here. ever dollar that trump is being asked to pay now is a dollar that he shouldn't have been lent to begin with and would not have been lent if it were not for all of his lies. >> how does this play out with other folks out there in the financial markets looking at this whole process? given that there are other scenarios in which trump could be held liable, how does this $175 million bond when the judgment was at $454 million get reconciled? what is the rest of the story with respect to the difference between what was awarded and versus what he has to put up for

a bond? >> yeah, look. i think anyone who is looking to lend trump money or underwrite anything for him right now has got to be looking at this and saying what next? it is not a great situation for him overall. if you have other different loans outstanding with him, how well is he going to be able to repay these? i think that ultimately, he is not going to win this appeal. he might get it lowered but i don't think he will win it. i don't think he will win the appeal against e. jean carroll. i don't think that is happening. again, that could get lowered a bit. i don't think it will get lowered to zero or anywhere close. if you lent money to donald trump and given his track record, i think that might not have been the best idea. >> you put that money to some other uses. like all things with donald trump, how long will you think this is going to take? is there something that we should be looking at being dragged out? or is this something that could

get turned around pretty quickly? >> yeah. donald trump's biggest weapon when he is trying to evade justice and i talk about this a ton in my book is delay. ultimately all of the things he does, the distraction, clown car full of lawyers, what is he trying to do here, he is just throwing sands into the gears of justice to try to stop it from happening. then he hopes this will cause other things to break his way. in the context of the election, he is hoping that it will allow him somehow to win and then be able to wave some sort of magic kingly wand and monarch or dictator his way out of this. so i think he is going to try to delay the appeals for as long as he can. but critically, i think the ag's office should be trying to seek expedited review of the case. donald trump has already been moving money around.

he moved $40 million out of the trump organization to pay private legal costs he had, a tax bill and some of the money he owes to e. jean carroll. he did that against a court order in secret away from the eyes of the court order monitor. there is already a clear track record here that donald trump is the financial equivalent of a flight risk. he will try to make the money disappear. as a result the ag's office should say we need to move faster before all of the money is gone and the right of the people to this money is frustrated, justice is frustrated. >> so tristan, on that point, because he is a financial flight risk in that record but he does have these assets out there that we also have talked about over the last couple of weeks, where does that money come from? what is the collateral do you think that is behind this $175

million bond? i'm sure the folks who posted it got to attach it to something. so what does that look like? >> look, there have been a lot of reports that underwriters did not want to use his properties as collateral. we don't know exactly how this is working. it could be the properties. it could be revenue streams from the properties. it could be cash he has on hand. my understanding is that he is not allowed to do anything that commits the stock that he has ipthis new truth social public company, that that would be against his lock up. he is not allowed to get rid of any of that stock for six months. i don't believe that he is allowed to have anything use that as collateral either. it is possible that people who understand that wipg of the trump legal saga would be able to weigh in differently on that. my understanding is that he

cannot incumber that stock. so some combination of all of those things? we don't know. it is a mystery to why anyone would, given the human wreckage he has created with all of the vendors and business partners that he screwed over, the people he ruins by going into bankruptcy as well, you would think people would think twice before lending him a nickel but there you go. >> as in all things, tristan, follow the money. that's what you need to do in this situation. tristan snell, thank you so much for being on with us. coming up, new comments from trump's former defense secretary mark esper could be indicative of a broader trend in the republican party and one that the biden campaign can take advantage of. president obama's former campaign manager david mruf is here to break it all down for us next.

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i said i believe he is a threat to democracy and we should be very mindful of that. >> so you will vote for biden? >> well, with every --. >> but, but --. >> i'm not there yet. i'm definitely voting for trump but i'm not voting for biden.

>> i just don't get this. i mean this sincerely. i don't get smart people who don't get binary. how can you not be there after what you just said? >> there is no way i will vote for trump but every day that trump does something crazy, the door to voting for biden opens a little bit more and that's where i'm at. >> that's a slow opening door. >> okay, can we talk? you know it is bad when your own defense secretary says he is definitely not voting for you. mark esper is definitely not voting for trump and he's not alone. a new political analysis of this year's primary results show donald trump's weakness with republican voters goes beyond the highly educated suburbanarians that have swung blue over the past decade. they found there is also a significant block of voters who did not want trump in more exurban, red leaning counties.

making it clear that while independents and crossover voters may have boosted nikki haley in some primaries, a chunk of true republican voters still wish for someone else to be the party's nominee. but as politico also notes, skepticism of trump doesn't mean biden has an easy road. so the big question for the president is if he can turn antitrump voters into pro biden voters. david plouffe was the campan manager for obama's 2008 campaign and he was an advisor to former president obama. good to see you. just how deep is this republican break from trump in your eyes? how do you see it? is it real? and is it something that biden can take advantage of? >> well, i will say it is deep enough. you know it is going to be a close race. >> i like that, it's honest.

that's good. >> i think it is bigger than we had in 20 and bigger than in '16. back in '16, you and i knew the republicans opposed to trump. we thought there were more than there were. there are a lot more now. the way i look at it, let's look at wisconsin. biden won that narrowly with about 20,000 votes. let's say there is more third party vote this share. maybe you need 1.6 million. president biden is probably guaranteed a million 4.8 or 4.5. how do you find the rest? some of that will be young people who are not sure they will vote. some of that will be true independent but there will be a big chunk that are republicans. in the six or seven states that will determine the presidency, there clearly is a bigger swath of target voters than were available to biden when he won in '20 or '16. it could not be a bigger deal. it is not all of the votes you

need to win the battleground state but it is an important piece of the pie. there are a lot of republicans like esper and others who can be the messenger, whether they volunteer to do so directly or indirectly that are more valuable than the biden campaign asking for the vote. there are enough target voters out there and i think there is a good message and messengers to reach the voters. >> here's the rub as i see it in some respects. do you think that democrats underestimate the republicans ability to basically hold their nose and basically vote for trump. you hear the narratives that republicans do come home and they do have a tendency to come home. because it is not so much voting for donald trump as it is voting for the party. so how do you see tracking that particular part of the shell to break through? and in the process of doing that, is there a tendency or maybe even a troubling narrative

that you may just overestimate the number of republicans that you can pick up? >> this can seem nerdy and boring but politics is about candidates and messaging but it is about math. a good candidate knows how many votes they need to win a state and where those votes will come from. if the biden campaign would overestimate the number of votes they need, that would be a mistake but i don't think they will. most of the haley voters will come home to trump. but you have a pool of voters, very sophisticated data and research, you can understand who can understand who is coming home no matter who they voted in the primary and who is open, either to not voting as esper fumbled around about but ultimately voting for biden. you have to look at it as how do you get to a win number in the battleground states. it's a small piece of the pie

but an important piece of the pie particularly when biden will have all of the challenges in the world of maximizing his share of turnout with young people. in a way if he can do slightly better with republicans than he did in 2020, it may mitigate a little leakage with young voters. >> i have to say, you are one of the few political professionals that i talk to that when i walk away from asking questions like the ones i did that i actually go, okay, he gets it. i do appreciate that. here's the other side. trump likes to turn his legal troubles into politics. so let's do that. let's turn them into politics. in the last half hour, he had a gag order expanded against him and had to post a $175 million bond. in this environment, how do democrats use this kind of thing, this kind of issue about vulnerabilities that trump has

legally? >> well, i think that -- i don't want to overstate this but most american voters are seeing something about trump's legal problems. for those republicans we talked about and independents, who don't want to return to four years of narcissism and corruption and circus, it's helpful. i think democratic voices probably need to do a better job of explaining what these are. trump and his allies say we are victims, this is biden's doj. these are shady business practices that no other business in america can get away with. this is for paying off a porn star he was having an affair with. he was credibly accused of rape. we have to remind people that when we talk about the fight for democracy, you can't short hand it. you have to do the same thing on these cases. i think it will rally his base to the extent that he is seen as

a victim. there are real difficulties in him raising money because he is diverting it to the legal cases. turnout for the republican primary is not what you would think if people were super enthused about it him. i think it will help to rally the core maga which is about 25% of the country but for everyone else, it is another brick on the wagon. how many more bricks can the wagon take? at the end of the day, that's how i see this. are there enough people out there who either thinking about not voting or truly deciding between biden and trump or biden and third party who say, i can't do another four years of this. and then it is biden campaign's job to convert the people. some are the republicans we talked about in the beginning of the show. >> all right, democrats, get them bricks on the wagon. break that sucker down. daniel plouffe, we appreciate that. up next, somehow a devastating and deadly bridge collapse has become political

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the white house announced today that president biden will travel to baltimore on friday to visit the site of the key bridge collapse. that comes after the president called on congress to put up the mub money needed to not only clean up the disaster but to rebuild the bridge itself. let's say the response from some

in my party has been less than enthusiastic. >> it was kind of outrageous immediately for biden to express on this tragedy the idea that he is going to use federal funds to pay for it in its entirety. he doesn't refer to it as the american taxpayer dollars on anything. the only reaction just tends to be to spend. >> it's outrageous says congressman dan user. but not to be out done, congresswoman nancy mace blamed the bridge collapse on the green new deal. congressman derek dan orrin said that he was just pandering to shipping companies. let's look at the facts. congress should act quickly to handle one of the worst bridge collapses in the history much like they did in 2007 after a deadly bridge collapse in minnesota.

to hear some republicans in congress talk about the tragedy of baltimore, it is almost as if it shouldn't matter to the country at all. i can't say i'm surprised given what donald trump has said about baltimore in the past. he has called the city the worst in the nation, a disgusting rat and rodent infested mess where no human being would want to live, where residents are living in hell. folks if you remember, those comments were directed at the late elijah cummings, the former congressman who represented baltimore's 7th congressional district for over 20 years. while it is notable that donald trump has been silent about the tragedy but guess what, it is not surprising. in fact, i would say it is expected. he has yet to offer any condolences or express any sympathy for the victims. he has not issued a statement even acknowledging the facts of what happened. and as someone who likes to boast about being a real estate

mogul, calling himself a builder, well, you would think that trump would jump at the opportunity to talk about it. well, maybe even just blame the accident on joe biden. but even his campaign would not respond to politico's request for comment. so look, trump's silence about this tragedy in baltimore says a whole lot about his unique contempt for the city and its residents. it is clearly trickling down to his allies in congress. if he returns to the white house, it is hard to see him helping baltimore in its recovery in the wake of its tragedy. but we can certainly see him renaming the bridge after himself. we will be back after a quick break. stay with us. k after a quic break. stay with us that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful.

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well, it's official. abortion access will be on the ballot in florida this fall. the state supreme court issued a ruling approving a ballot measure that if passed would guarantee floridians the right to abortion before viability which is about 24 weeks. as with all state rulings, can can't be that straight forward. the supreme court also upheld florida's 15 week limit on the abortion today which triggers a more restrictive 6 week limit that will go into effect in 30 days. so floridians will face a 6 week abortion ban in their state until november when voters will get to decide whether to enshrine protections for up to 24 weeks. joining me now is florida state

representative anna esmanny, she worked with planned parenthood in florida for a number of years before getting into politics. representative, thank you for joining us. i'm assuming you see today as a victory for advocates of reproductive rights. do you expect this ballot measure to pass in your state in november? how does it feel on the ground right now? >> well, i have to say the energy is incredible. people are motivated now that we know we have abortion on the ballot this november. but of course the six week abortion ban will be devastating. in 30 days, florida will have a near total abortion ban impacting our residents and women in the south who come to florida for the access for care. the closest option for us will be virginia. we will have to navigate the on the ground crisis for reproductive care and stay focused on victory in november. >> wow that is a powerful statement, that the closest

action would be in virginia. let's widen this out, because we have a big senate race with rick scott running for reelection and a presidential race between donald trump and joe biden, how much does this decision change the political landscape ahead of november in terms of not just the narratives but how voters are going to look at the campaigns? >> well, i think what is so unique about abortion access is regardless of political affiliation, we all know someone who has had an abortion. i have seen so many republican women in my own state and across the country stand up and say their party has gone too far, that these bans are extreme and they are supporting codification, supporting rejecting political interference in our personal lives. i can't speak to what this will mean for some of the top ticket races but what i can say is we need to secure 50% on candidates but 60% when it comes to ballot

initiatives. so in order to win, it needs to be a broad coalition of folks of every political identity and background. >> to that point, the biden campaign told nbc news this evening that it believes it has a shot to win florida and that abortion will be a key factor in helping make inroads in the state. so in that regard, is florida winnable both at the senate level as well as the federal level with the presidency? >> as someone born and raised in florida, i am proud to say that florida is always worth fighting for. we need all boots on the ground. we need people to vote and ready to ensure that we not only codify reproductive rights but we help ensure that we have elected officials that help reflect the same values. >> it is interesting because the group that was leading the effort to get abortion on the ballot this november collected well over 910,000 validated

signatures of registered voters in florida. at least 150,000 of those signatures came from registered republicans. something i have been saying for a while and you as a floridian know to be true, republicans also are very much aligned with the effort to keep abortions as an access opportunity, healthcare issue for a lot of republican women. how does that change the political dynamices do you think? >> that is so well said. again, when you need access to reproductive rights, when you walk into a clinic, no one is asking for your party i.d. regardless of whether you decide to become a parent, choose adoption or end the pregnancy, that decision is between you, your family, your doctors, your faith and not politicians. that belief transcends political lines. i'm hopeful that we will see

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that does it for me tonight. jen psaki will be back from vacation for next week's shows. be sure to join me and simone sanders toundzened on the weekend on msnbc.now, it's time this thing over to rachel maddow. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, mr. michael steele. it's so nice to see you there in that chair. how's it feel being here in primetime at night? >> the pressure is enormous. but i'm having fun. and so i'm going to leave all the breaking news to you, my friend. because it was breaking there for a moment. but i know you