and not about the patients even my training itself, i had our attending physicians who had to work under the model told me that i'm not gooding to teach you medicine, i'm going to teach you how to survive because that is what it feels like on a daily basis. >> we have a number of statements from the company that have been involved but the one that you just mentioned blackstone, and also kkr, both of them declined to comment on this senate letter. dr. mitchell lee, thank you very much. i appreciate it. thank you very much for coming on. and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. the judge who was set to preside over the first ever criminal trial of an ex president of the united states saying enough today. judge mar chan expanding his

order including alvin bragg and his own family. that ruling came in an order last night following a filing from alvin bragg's office and in the wake of repeated attacks and ongoing ones by trump on the judge's daughter. the kind of stuff so completely nonsensical and baseless and out of bounds that most normal criminal defendants would not contemplate launching attacks like this. but donald trump is no ordinary criminal defendant, is he. next ex-president. with just two weeks to go before he goes on trial. he was intent on turning the proceedings into a circus. to benefit him politically, because he knows that winning the white house may be his only way out of his now many legal trev ails. the judge dismisses the claim that he's exercising his first

amendment right to free speech when he charges the judge's daughter, and that is judge talk for a lie. this pattern after tacking family members of presiding jurists and attorneys assigned to his cases serves no legitimate purpose. it merely injected fear in those assigned or called to participate in the proceedings. not only they but their family members are fair game for the defendant's vitro ol. a ex president who knows exactly what he's doing and what happens and what can happen when he lashed out at someone. even someone with no bearing on the case like the daughter of the judge and anyone involved in this case is a threat of violence. as the judge said, all citizens called upon to participate in these proceedings, whether as a juror, a witness, or in some other capacity, must now concern themselves not only with their own personal safety, but with

the safety and the potential for personal attacks upon their loved ones. that reality cannot be overstated. all of this means that the time for action is right now. the ordinary conventions around imposing a gag order do not apply once again from judge, courts are understandably concerned about the first amendment rights of a defendant when they are a public figure. but because of the impact of an indictment on the general public is so great, that few defendants will be able to overcome it much less turn it to their advantage. the conventional david versus goliath is no longer in play. it is no longer just a mere possibility or a reasonable likelihood that there exists a threat to the integrity of the judicial proceedings. threat is very real. admonitions are not enough, nor is reliance on self-restraint.

the judge in the new york hush money trial taking no chances with defendant donald trump is where we start today. contributor and nyu law professor melissa murray is here, the co-author of the new book, the trump indictments, the charging documents with commentary, it has soared to the top of every best-seller list. michael steele is here, jump if i have this wrong, you were on the air when this news came down and you dealt with it live. we'll hear your thoughts on it now. you have a second to read it because i know what that is like and the former chairman of the rnc and co-host of the week show. and with me director of the public policy program at hunter college, basil smikle and the host of the fast politics podcast and special correspondent for "vanity fair," molly jong. michael steele, two things. when it happens here, you bring it to us and it takes a minute

to sink in. so i want your thoughts on this and i want to widen the lens because it blows my mind to read these words. the judge said that the normal stuff doesn't apply because trump is flo normal defendant. now he's not -- and we spent years saying he's not a normal president. he's the most damaged human being ever encountered and now the most abnormal criminal defendant anyone has ever seen. >> well, you know, what is so striking about the opinion, which is relatively short, when you consider all of the other opinions that have been handed down in trump cases, is you realize he reached the same point that so many of us have reached in real life a long time ago. that he is not a ordinary defendant. and oh, guess what, we can no longer treat him as such. we're going to have to bring the

weight of the court against this particular defendant because he is prone to misbehave deliberately. and so what was fascinating, just watching all of the light bulbs go on as you're reading this, and thinking to yourself, well, y'all didn't see this coming, you didn't know this about this man. how many times did it take for him to actually break the gag orders that were already in place. i mean, you watch the man who got handed down an $83 million judgment against him in the e. jean carroll case and what did he do literally after that opinion -- after that decision came down? he went out and went after her again. and what did they do? they dragged his behind back in court and got another $5 million judgment out of him. so the reality of it is, this is what he does. and it is good to see the system, nicolle, finally catch up to this behavior. this is how he's going to act. and so now the question is, in

light of what judge had to say last evening, the clock is ticking, when does he break that particular gag order. we'll see. he's going to find a way to do it. and the system ultimately is going to say, you know what, as i've said a long time ago, nicolle, put his behind in jail. because that will shut him up. >> and when you said it, you didn't say behind. >> no, because i don't want to offend. >> let me just follow up quickly. i think what you're talking about is a particular judge in a particular criminal case, sort of processing what is before all of our eyes and ears and faces and that is he, of course, has a right to due process. and he exploits the system to a way that puts him in a category where he's receiving a totally different and separate set of advantages. because he doesn't just take his

right to due process, he smears the judge, he harasses the judge's daughter, to the point where you talk to any parent in any field and if there is someone with 50 million followers threatening and attacking their daughter in this political climate on tv, that is -- that is already had an impact. a terrifying her and who knows, i wouldn't project on to the judge what he feels about it but it is done what trump intended to do. which is change the power structure and put himself on top. and i wonder, you go back and look at day after mueller testifies, he called zelenskyy and the day after he gets out of his first impeachment, he puts himself -- he puts in motion efforts to claim fraud before anyone has voted. he's always on to the next grift and scam and i wonder if you think there is time or if you think it is too late? >> no, i think in some respects it is a little bit too late because the damage has been done. this is the place in the very beginning. i mean, it is not just donald

trump as president that was suddenly seeing the evidence of this. you have donald trump as a business man who actually behaved this way. one of the first things michael cohen and others told us, that donald trump is going to appeal, appeal, appeal. he'll turn the system in on itself. he'll take something that no other lawyer would say, oh, yeah, let's do that, and his lawyers will do it because what else are they going to do? they want to get the check, which never comes. but they -- they'll go along with the game plan. so, this is part of his pattern. not something that oh, he just, you know, made up as a former president, i think i'm going to behave this way. this is how he's always behaved. and so now you are taking in the totality and you begin to appreciate the full dimensions of the what donald trump's universe is like. it is chaos because that is how he wants it. and so now you have that sort of flowing into what is ordinarily

or arguably a stabilized judicial system after what we've seen what he's done to stabilize the political system, that is now playing out here. and you and i have had this conversation on your show about how he twists the system into knots. and even the very smart lawyers and prosecutors that we have coming through our network to talk about this still can't reconcile the impact of this. and still can't articulate why he's able to do it so successfully. and that is the biggest flaw right now that i've seen in terms of your question, is it too late? yeah, it is. because the damage has been done. the jury pool has already been tainted and the witnesses have already been threatened. what left is there to do? >> listen, and melissa murray, you're one of the smart people that we turn to. i'll let you respond.

but i want to associate myself with the conclusion and i guess my thesis is that it is a failure of imagination. a lot of people have pointed this out, presidential historians that our founders didn't imagine someone who would threaten the peaceful transfer of power within. that wasn't contemplated. liz cheney has talked directly to the supreme court and is sort of willed them not to intervene and indulge his immunity claim. because it has the effect of denying the public a right to see the facts in the insurrection case adjudicated. i want to show you what a former assistant new york attorney general adam pollack had to say again on this topic of trump receiving different treatment. >> ordinarily, a normal defendant b you would send them to rikers. very quickly, woe figure out in rikers what the right way to behave before a trial is but president trump is not every other defendant.

it is practically difficult for the staff of rikers to have trump there. i think it is very difficult. on the other hand, he does speak money. he is interested in money andez worried or scared of fines and so there could be a fine that is commensurate with his wealth that could put him into place. >> your thoughts? >> i think that is right. he has received not just due process but maybe the due-est of processes. what kate shaw has said. but he's definitely getting treated differently not in the way he suggested to his followers. it is unlikely that he will be thrown in jail because he is such a high profile defendant and no one wants to be seen as persecuting him and that is how it will be framed by him and his followers if he is thrown in jail for contempt of court. so everyone is treading very carefully and because of that, he could get away with quite a

lot. now the question is, will a fine be something that he will respond to? given that he's had to put up a fair amount of money,al -- although he has the case that some kind of hit to the wallet would be something of a deterrent, but again it would have to be quite significant. we saw in the judge engoran case that there was a fine and it doesn't have much of an impact. so if there is a fine, it would have to be very substantial. but i think the time is past for people to start taking this seriously. it is not what donald trump said, it is what his responders and his supporters respond to. and again we're only a few years out from the moment where judge salas saw her husband and son shot and her son killed by someone who decided to take things into his own hands with regard to a judge. the same kinds of fears could be happening here. these are not hypothetical at

all. these are serious consequences. >> yeah. and molly was here yesterday. talking about that. because i think as we read too you more of what the judge said. the judge in the receiving end, he and his daughter of trump's attacks today. >> defendant and his opposition of april 1st, 2024 desperately attempted to justify and explain away his dangerous rhetoric by turning the tables and blaming those he attacks. the arguments council makes are at best strained and at worse baseless misrepresentations which rely on innuendo and imagination. put mildly, the sort of allegations presented at facts and cobbled together result in accusations that are not rational. photographs that were necessary and appropriate in the current environment is farcical. >> what is interesting to me is that trump does this because it works for him. right. it has worked for him with the republican party. it is worked with him from

everyone from lindsey graham to tim scott. these politicians have come into line for him. and so that is why he keeps repeating this behavior. because he knows he has thissee -- enormous following and this is something that he's done. so i do think, you know, he's getting a different kind of justice that a normal defendant, that is for sure. but he is also, just to quote will hurd, who ran against him in the primary, he is running for president to stay out of jail. >> correct. and he actually isn't even hiding the -- the enchill auda from his base. i'm it, if you keep me out of jail. let me show you one more piece. this is judge reggie walton, again just, it is extraordinary for a judge like judge esther salas, who was here yesterday, like judge luteig who speaks out

all of the time to our democracy and our judiciary, but this is a sitting judge talking about why these threats are so dangerous. >> it is very disconcerting to have someone making comments about a judge and it is particularly problematic when those comments are in the form of a threat. especially if they're directed at one's family. i mean, we do those jobs because we're committed to the rule of law and we believe in the rule of law and the rule of law could only function effectively when we have judges who are prepared to carry out their duties without the threat of potential physical harm. >> now, d.a. alvin bragg quoted the judge in his filing. there is no constitutional right to target the family of this court. and let alone the blatant falsehoods that have served as the flimsiest of the attacks and the defendant knows what he is

doing and everybody else does to and we know what he intends because he's said for decades that it is part of his life's philosophy to go after his perceived opponents as visually and violently as he can. the suggestion that the defendant is merely engaging in political counter speech is an obvious fiction that this court should reject. this issue is not complicated. family members must be strictly off limits. i know there is some sort of conventional wisdom among chatters classes that that is not the case. i've always disagreed about that. it is about cheating an lying and cheating in your election and lying about both lying and cheating and lying about that he doesn't cheat. literally and figurely. but i think that this is the moment, the treatment of a judge and a judge's adult daughter is going to tell us everything about the country we live in for the next seven months. >> it is. and consider the fact that this is a guy who is selling bibles.

how christian of him engage in this kind of behavior. it is laughable. but, you know, we talk about his tactics being delay, delay, we need to insert intimidate in there. because it is central to his strategy. to make sure that people are intimidating, they feel like they have to push back on the heels and they should not engage because that is how you push people away from limb and off of him and get them off his trail. that is central to who he is and what he's trying to do here. so, i go back to michael's point about the system. because the concern that i have is that the system is going to be pushed to a point where it would break and fall apart and i don't know if we're prepared for that. for the first time, the first time. >> i'm starting to see contraction to where it should be in that it is treating the circus and that it is treating him. that people who don't normally speak out, like the judge and

like this judge that you just said, judge walton, are saying i don't have to speak his name, but the reality is we all know who we're talking about here and we have to get rid of this guy. and i feel like people who did not talk before then and now understanding that it is so dire that they need to step up and speak to this. and going out every time he has to go to court and hold this rally in the hallway of a courthouse. would is putting a stop to that? and we have to start thinking about all of the quack forms that he uses, as the average voter, think about all of the platforms he uses to promote all of this hate and this anger and it is intimidation. it is the hall that we pay for in your taxes that you pay for in your taxes and you're letting him do this and i feel like the system, hopefully, is starting to wake up to itself. >> you're letting him do this but with a straight face and saying law and order. he's one of four criminal

trials. >> that is right. and that is why even the whole selling the bibles is ridiculous. we see it. why can't other people see it. but if they do, they are afwrad to speak out and now there is a little more runway for them to do it. >> sarah longwell is here, she said i live in permission structure. no one is going anywhere. when we come back, the nominee for president getting a life looipline from a pro-trump billionaire helping him out big time while he appeals the half a billion dollars civil fraud judgment against him. what we know about that deal ahead. plus florida is becoming an interesting state to watch. this election year after yesterday and the conservative state supreme court ruled that voters will get to weigh in on the issue of abortion access. but there are still challenges for women there and throughout much of the south. how florida could change the game again. into and later in the broadcast,

a new look at who stormed the capitol on january 6 as the ex ex-president's embrace of the inmates is a new normal for him and his extremist supporters. harry dunn will be our guest. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley

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donald trump narrow escape from financial calamity is raising a few eyebrows today. he was thrown a lifeline last week when an appealed court reduced the bond in his civil fraud case to just $175 million. he posted that late last night. sparing him fromming his asset

seized while he appealed the $454 million penalty. and what was burning about just who came to the rescue. a company run by a billionaire supporter of donald trump. according to bloomberg, billionaire don hanky, who is the chairman of night specialty insurance said this, quote, night reached out to trump's team to offer services after hearing about the former president's trouble arranging a bond. despite his history of the support for the ex-president telling hanky, yes, i voted for him in the past but this is a business deal. and this is what we do. i've never met donald trump or talked to him on the phone. we're back with melissa, michael, bazil and molly. melissa, there are geopolitical, national security concerns in question, pete struck wrote a whole book on it, when a president's money comes from foreign and there is nothing illegal. but where is there sort of an ethics question when donald

trump tells us all of the time, he's running for president. >> well there is a lot of shades of the civil fraud trial and indeed a lot of shades of the questions that have arisen about donald trump's finances more generally. when night insurance stepped in after many other bond companies refused to do so because the former president wasn't a good risk. a lot of his assets are not liquid. he didn't have the cash reserves to be able to put up the collateral for a bond. you have to put up more than the bond is actually worth in order to get it. and so, i think there are big questions about what mr. hanky did in order to allow night insurance to go forward with this. there is some mix of cash and other assets that were used to secure the bond. i think we should know where the cash came from, is it donald trump's cash, is it cash from some only source? those are all questions that go to that broader question of who is funding him and who is now beholden to him and who is he

beholden to and all of that i think is critically important as a matter of transparency going into the election. >> michael steele, this is nbc reporting on this. hanky has been investor in axos bank, the institution that refinances trump's loans on dorl and miami in 2022. axos bank has loaned trump $100 million in his refinancing of trump tower and $125 million more for doral. hanky, who is the billionaire, is believed to be the biggest share in axos bank. he claims he wasn't aware of the trump tower loan at the time. your thoughts? >> okay. sure. i'm going to lend you $125 million and not know about it. or not be aware. >> three times, right. see if i could count. trump tower, trump national

doral and his bail. i don't know. >> this is the thing, they all think we're stupid. they'll put this out in the ether and we'll say that makes sense. there is a reason why 30 some other banks and surety firms said no. and so there has to be a reason why he said yes. and that is because -- especially because he's running for president. not despite or it is a side thought, absolutely because -- because it is important to know how is this funded. again, this is only $175 million of a $454 million judgment. so the question still remains, okay, what happens to the other, you know, 270 some million dollars that is not being discussed right now. there is that piece. is there some back deal to sort

of cover that down the road? what -- how is this deal put together. and that level of scrutiny has to be a part of this conversation. i'm sorry you just cannot get away with, oh, well i never met the guy, i've never really talked to him. but i've given him over $100 million three times. >> yeah, i mean, i guess your point, too, the 30 that said no, if you just take the statistics of the industry, maybe half and half voted for him before, it is not like all 30 were trump deranged people. and again, because one of the challenges of covering trump is we don't imagine what he would do because he cares so little about the institutions or most of the people that talk about him on tv hail from, i think we could put on the tail, did he promise he could be acting treasury secretary or in guy who none of us knows cares about. or because it is 30 and 1, 30 people said no, one said yes and

so it does create a lot of sort of heat and attention around why he was different from the other 30 and i guess my question for you, michael, do you think we'll ever find out what it was. >> i think we will. because these things always get exposed at some point. they just do. and particularly given now that there are a lot of interests out there in media and politics but other groups that are on the battle line of trying to safeguard the presidency, the democracy, and the rule of law an the process that we have tried to live by sometimes not as well as other times, but nonetheless we've all concertedly moved the country forward in a positive direction, that will be interested in this. and i think it is appropriate to know. yeah, and in any other business transaction, yeah, you're probably that level of detail is not necessarily warranted. but i bet you if those business transactions you weren't talking

to someone who is running for governor or president or u.s. senator. so it does matter right now. and it is important for the -- i think that if i'm running this company, i would put the whole thing out there. why not. why didn't you disclose the terms of the deal. the court is going to want to know. so we should know. >> a love that you're waving the flag of optimism and transparency in the spirit of preserving our democracy today. thank you for starting us off. the table sticks around. up next for us, the biden election campaign said florida is winnable because what it is calling the republican party toxic agenda in that state. the latest on some significant ruling as it pertains to reproductive health care set to be a top issue now on the ballot. don't go anywhere. llot don't go anywhere. running low? with chewy, always keep their bowl full.

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>> florida citizens an voters on their views on the importance of reproductive policies when it comes to reproductive health care access as the state supreme court rules that the florida constitution does not protect the right to access abortion health care. it paves the way for a six-week abortion ban which bans all abortions to go into effect while simultaneously allowing a ballot initiative for the fall on abortion access to go before the voters. florida has been a critical access point for women living in states with near total abortion bans already in the south with one in 12 abortions in the country taking place in the state of florida. this ruling now creates an abortion desert in a huge chunk. look at that. a third of the country. a quarter of the country. the decision by the desantis stacked supreme court he picked five of the seven justices has increased urgency around the fall ballot initiative.

it is critical to restore access not just for floridians but for women across the south. it is one of 11 ballot initiatives going before voters in the fall. voters have been energized by these issues so far since dobbs was over turned. organizers behind arizona ballot initiative have obtained more than the required number of signatures for that measure for that to appear on the ballot in november. joining our coverage, president and ceo of the planned parenthood action fun, alexis johnson. basil and molly are still here. what does why your florida plan look like? >> as you indicated, it was a very kind of mixed decision yesterday to hear both that the florida supreme court has paved the way for the six week ban to take effect for the patients of

florida and it is a significant population that gets access to care and now the south essentially has been, you know, restricted in access and the idea that you would have to leave virginia and go all the way to new mexico to get carech that is going to affect a significant amount of patients. we've been preparing for this potential moment so we continue to work with our patient navigators to support patients to get access out of state at other clinics across the country. but i want to be clear, there is no world in which, you know, the states that still have access were meant to absorb 50 states of patient care. and at the same time, to see that the floridians protecting reproductive freedom are able to have that really critical ballot initiative where the voters will get to decide what freedom looks like in florida is incredibly

powerful. and it couldn't have come at a more important time. >> alexis, on that, it has been a tet onic shift in our politics that supercedes geography, preconceived notions from pundits on how long a issue will remain resonant, why so many people got the midterm results wrong, a red lapping wave, maybe a red hiccup. there wasn't a wave at all because women and men, older voters and younger voters and in every region of the country understand that criminalizing abortion health care means women die. what is your sort of analysis of how and whether florida will be different politically? >> well, as you said, it cuts across demographics and it also cuts across partisanship. here you have a state where a million signatures signed these petitions and 200,000 of them were republicans as you saw the

very few people in the clip. that this is a matter of whether or not we get to own our own health care decisions or whether the government owns the health care decisions. it is really that pure and simple. and i think that we're going to continue to see what we have seen every time reproductive freedom has been on the ballot, we have won and i think it is so important for us to remind people, especially those people who think all of a sudden we're going to forget that our free dopes have been taken away, that all of a sudden we're going to to focus on some other issue, it is so fundamentally to be able to control your own health care and it is so fundamental to control your own freedom and that is not something that easily goes away as people consider the implications because the stories are really out there and people understand really what is at stake now. >> and everybody knows somebody who has been impacted by criminalizing women's health care. everyone knows somebody who has either needed to turn to ivf or

everyone knows someone who has lost their baby threw tragic horrific circumstances and the idea that men are waiting in parking lots until their septic is in sane. >> and this was never about serving women or people. desantis did this six week ban because he was running for president. against donald trump and he knew that republican primary voters wanted it. and i would say that as we look at this ban, it is a moment here where voters are going to go to the polls in november to vote on this referendum and live in a state that was much more pro-choice than most states in the south. and so i do think they're going to be really informed when they vote. and whether or not that makes florida in play for democrats, we don't know. but it certainly means that they understand really firsthand what is at stake.

>> i'm going to get you in on this. i have to sneak in a quick break. no one is going anywhere. k. no one is going anywhere love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot.

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60, 70% ad. he has so much of the public behind him in that one message. >> that is right. it is an issue that for republicans, and you talked earlier about you have the question, when is an issue remain viable, how long does it remain viable. it is amazing to me that republicans just keep doing it and getting it -- and being worse at it. they just will not pull back and stop and say, you know what, we've got to retool. instead, they make these policies more draconian and then also add immigration on top of that. so we're not going to talk about what we've just done, we're going to misdirect and talk about something else. and i teach my students, one of the things that makes an issue so viable is if it forces to you change your behavior and all of the stories that we're hearing

about, this about women undergoing incredible circumstances to be able to have sovereignty over their own bodies because the government won't allow them to is extraordinary. and it should show everybody that when you have an issue like that, when you're forcing people into situations that they shouldn't be, obviously, and no one in their right mind believes they should be, then just stop. but they refuse to do that. >> not only have they not stopped. but they don't know how to and now ivf is in danger in alabama. it is getting worse. >> that is right. i'm happy to see that ad, i'm glad biden is using his own voice in that ad and image. 92 was the year of the woman for clinton and i think this year will be as well. it will me a sea change in politics and what any coalition

will be going forward. and i'm here for it. and i think it is high time and it goes back who what i was saying earlier, about the system being pushed to its seams and it is come back together and trying to become stronger than it was even before trump. >> i think the power is of course the choice movement that is about just that, right. and the idea that republicans have changing the subject and talk about the economy, well this is a woman's economy. right. if you are forced to carry a pregnancy that isn't planned or that you choose not to, that affects your family economy and your community economy. there is no changing the subject when someone else wants to make the choice. but i think the historic aspect of women who have endured the tragedy part of the public conversation around taking away a right that we've had for 50 years in this country is what makes it tectonic.

i want to show you what happened today. this is deborah. she was denied an abortion under the florida 15-week ban. >> forced you to carry the baby until 37 weeks with no amniotic fluid and a certainty that he would not survive? >> yes. yeah. >> how -- what was the impact on -- in those final seconds that i have. what was the impact on your family and on your husband and on your son? >> it was -- we've all struggled with our mental health. even my 4-year-old has had to see a therapist to understand why his brother died, so just all really struggled with our

mental health and my physical health, it has taken a long time for me to recover and i'm still not recovered from it. >> the heroic valor of these women, suffering the loss of their children, of their babies and then out of the deep desire to save more women from suffering, doing that and talking about their darkest moments in public is a thing that i still can't get my brain around. but i know it is changing the conversation. and the behavior of voters in this country. how country. how important is their courage to tell these stories? >> it's critically important and i mean, look, it literally takes your breath away to hear the stories of the cruelty, right? it is literally the cruelty on the way to consolidating control and power that we are seeing

from the opposition. and i think that you know, the question remains, like how could they be doubling down in a moment where it is so deeply unpopular? where they know the majority of republicans do not want to see government interference in medical decisions. i think they really felt as though they were safe. that they had gerrymandered themselves into seats where they could take these votes, enact these policies, they can rule from the bench in ways where there wouldn't be any consequences. i think telling the stories of the real impact is changing people's minds. it's helping them draw a deeper connection to the fact that abortion bans are not only cruel and chaotic right now, they are making pregnancy more dangerous. they are creating opportunities to criminalize miscarriage, and for the most vulnerable populations who are you know, struggling day-to-day to take

away a right. i love that base basil said sovereignty. those are the stories that are going to make a difference in this election. they always have. that's what we're going to see continue to move forward in '24. >> we will continue to call on you and all of you. thank you so much for spending time with us today. when we come back, an update on the tragic strike in gaza that took the lives of seven humanitarian aid workers. stay with us. s of seven humanitarian aid workers stay with us (♪♪) with chewy, save 20% on your first pharmacy order so you can put an end to the itch. get flea and tick medication delivered right to your door. [panting]

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booking.com booking.yeah israel's military today facing intense scrutiny after an israeli defense force air strike has killed seven world central kitchen humanitarian aid workers in gaza. this is video taken by one of the victims of australia. serving meals to civilians in gaza. the other aid workers come from all over the world including great britain and poland. one held dual citizenship of the united states and canada. here is raf sanchez with more on the strike. >> reporter: world central kitchen, the charity founded by chef jose andres saying that the killings are unforgivable and they are asking how this could have happened given that the three cars in this convoy, at least two of them were clearly marked with the logo of the world central kitchen. they were driving in what's

called a deconflicted zone. a zone that's supposed to be safe for humanitarian organizations to operate in. and the charity is saying that they spoke to the israeli military ahead of time about the movement of those vehicles. >> israeli prime minister netanyahu calling the attack a tragic accident. world central kitchen has said they are halting operations in gaza. president biden today called chef jose andres expressing his condolences and making it clear that aid workers must be protected. according to the united nation, 200 aid workers have been killed since the start of the war. next, trump's vow to free all inmates convicted of their crimes during january 6th after the insurrection after a new report showing most of them had been charged with physically assaulting police officers. don't go anywhere. ulting polices don't go anywhere. and we'll come to you to fix it. >> tech vo: this customer was enjoying her morning walk. we texted her when we were on our way.

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i was pushed backwards and my foot caught the stair behind me and i, my chin hit the handrail and then i, at that point, i had blacked out but my back of my head clipped the concrete stairs behind me. >> in iraq, we expect violence because we were in a war zone but nothing i experienced in the army or as a law enforcement officer prepared me for january 6th. >> they beat me. i was struck with a taser device at the base of my skull numerous times. and they continued to do so until i yelled out that i have kids. >> hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. no matter how many times you hear the firsthand testimonies of this day, no matter how many times i watch it, the part you

can't get your brain around is the duration of the utter brutality endured by law enforcement. the men and women of law enforcement on january 6th. it should still horrify and stop anyone in their tracks. make us put down our phones an think about what it was like for trump supporters to beat over and over again the people they now claim to be aligned with. in heinous ways. ways that the law enforcement officials described as medieval. trump supporters were fueled by the lies donald trump told them about the 2020 election being stolen from him. the violence is still nearly unimaginable for most americans. because even though we witnessed it, we know what an angry mob of trump supporters did, what they're still capable of, trump has sought to rewrite that with the help of his republican enablers and thanks to the rule of law, many of those who

committed the most heinous crimes against law enforcement officials are facing consequences, legal consequences. new reporting takes stock of where the rioters are right now, looking specifically at individuals being held in the d.c. department of corrections. as of last week, d.c. has 29 january 6th inmates in custody including defendants who were either awaiting trial or post conviction. of that number, all but two have been charged with assaulting law enforcement officers in the united states capitol on its grounds. 19 of 27 have been in trials. quote one inmate allegedly threw an explosive device. it detonated on at least 25 officers causing some to temporarily lose their hearing. other january 6th inmates held in d.c. include ones who viciously ripped off metropolitan police department officer's mask. assaulted officers with an elect

row shock device, allegedly sprayed multiple police officers with a pepper spray. struck an npd officer with a long wooden pole multiple times and allegedly used a crutch and a metal pole as bludgeoning weapons or projectiles against a line of law enforcement officers. still others assaulted officers with their fists, stolen riot shields, makeshift weapons or in other ways. we run through that partial list of the physical assaults because it is those specific criminals that trump is talking about when he talks about wrongly imprisoned hostages is what he calls them. he has promised us that as president if re-elected, first thing he's going to do is free them. it is front and center in his campaign and he's pushing it more and more prominently. he even promoted a vigil being held for those inmates of the

d.c. department of corrections. "washington post" noted that since january, trump has made references to the hostages at his rallies mentioning the term so far at every rally in march. it's where we start the hour with harry dunn. he's now running for congress in maryland on the platform of protecting our democracy. nice to see you, my friend. >> hey, nicole. >> i think one of the things we have trouble with is numbers and i think of the murder of george floyd and one of the most compelling things i saw was dave chappelle take the time that it took that officer to murder him. and just sitting in that time was so horrible and sometimes it's the time, right? the time that an attack goes on. can you just remind us how long law enforcement officials were

under attack from trump supporters on january 6th? how many hours? >> over three hours. and speaking of time, i have to take this time to acknowledge my former co-worker, officer billy evans who three years ago today was killed at the capitol protecting the capitol. three months after what we went through on january 6th. and one thing that stands out in that article you just led with, how many times the word allegedly was used. we watched it on tape. there's nothing allegedly about it. everybody in america saw what happened. and also, the individuals who pled guilty to their crimes, there was no allegedly about it. that just stuck out with me. but over three hours, we were begging, the people in charge of the radios were begging for help and officers were fighting for their lives, just trying to make it home to their loved ones at the end of the day. >> can you imagine any other

group of criminals who would have three hours to quote, beat and attack the people they claim to support, to use flag poles, to use pepper spray, to use shields, to use spears and quote electro shock devices. would anyone else get three hours to do that? >> no. there were reports about donald trump and he didn't call it off because he enjoyed what was happening and that leads to the point this you made about him promising to free them so to speak. the idea about him freeing people who pled guilty is letting them know that hey, you guys didn't do anything wrong even though they said they did something wrong by pleading guilty to their charges, to the crimes they were charged with. it's repulsive. it's disrespectful. which is perfect because it's right on track for donald trump. >> yeah, and it's the audacity.

last week, we covered the statement put out by officer sicknick's family. his father and brother spoke out about the fact that in their view, brian is dead because of donald trump and that every officer who dies leaves behind family and colleagues who are heartbroken and that community has a gaping hole in it and every family is free to grieve however they want, but donald trump claiming he stands with law enforcement is a farce. how do we make sure that the sicknick's voice is heard by voters? >> we continue to call it out and speak against it. i'm really glad that along with several other officers, sergeant ganell, michael fanone, danny hodges, are still speaking out even three years later. it's so easy to get tired of it

and say this is enough, we've moved on. no. absolutely not. never forget. we're not letting this go away so i'm very encouraged by the sicknick family continuing to speak up. like you said, it was more than just a police officer. it was a son, a brother. you know, we need to continue to fight for the memory of those individuals because it can happen again. >> how do you as someone who comes from law enforcement square the sort of willful turning away from trump's, trump let his supporters, not let, directed his supporters to the capitol to let me just quote what they did. this is language from their own legal processes. they bludgeoned, they beat, they smashed law enforcement officials for three hours. nobody used their weapons. i think officer fanone testified

he thought it would just become a blood bath if he did that. so they had three hours to physically beat law enforcement officials, to desecrate the united states capitol and yet lots of people including in law enforcement think trump is a better choice than biden for president. how do you start to open up that which is so calcified and predicated on lies? >> well, you used the term a lot earth one and a lot of those people are not on it. so we have to focus on the people we can focus on. anybody, that's why i keep sticking with the word allegedly. we saw what we saw. anybody who sees that what they saw on january 6th and has the rational or logical mind to go and support donald trump and not only support him, but give him a pass for what he did and did not do that day. anybody that's associated with that, they're already gone.

they're not on earth one as you say often. >> you're so right. you're so right. and i think you know we, you don't need everybody. you need to put together a coalition to make sure our democracy is served. you said on january 6th, i didn't just fight against insurrectionists, i fought for all of us because our democracy isn't just for the people who work at the u.s. capitol. it's about all of those. tell me what you're getting now that you're on the campaign trail. what do people say about that? >> it's been very encouraging out there, being able to talk to voters and just first of all, they thank me for everything i'm doing but it's just a continuation of my public service being able to run for office. on january 6th, we were fighting for the american people. our job as police officers are public servants and we are there

to protect the seats that members of congress occupy, that the voters in the district send them to d.c. to represent. that's why i was able to continue to be able to protect members of congress who completely wiped their butts with what we went through that day on january 6th. because it wasn't about them. it was about the voters who sent them there. and those seats of congress that they hold will continue to exist if, only if, we continue to do our job as voters as the american people. >> this might be the first time that wipe their butts was actually a show of restraint on this program and for all the people who monitor my potty mouth, i thank you on their behalf. stay with us. i want to bring in to our conversation my friend charlie sykes and there you are. maya wily. charlie, harry's right, right?

leaning coalition is just that. but there is something that just gets in my krau about the hypocrisy and the meanness of donald trump proudly and brazenly standing with people who aren't just convicted criminals, they're convicted of carrying out violent assaults on law enforcement officials that went on for three hours. they didn't just punch them and run. they beat them with sticks and pepper spray for three hours. even his criminals are afforded a separate standard of justice and i wonder what you think of his campaign elevating them front and center. >> you cannot square this contradiction. harry is right. we saw what was done and yet donald trump is trying to unsee it. he's trying to get his supporters to unsee it. last week, i tweeted out about this. about donald trump showing up at

the wake for the police officer and i asked the question did donald trump go to brian sicknick's wake and is he still planning to, is he still planning to pardon the january 6th rioters who attacked cops with flag poles and tased them? what was interesting was the reaction from many of the maga type who were enranged by that, many of whom insisted no police officer was attacked. there are many trump supporters out there who will not believe the truth of their eyes, who live in such an alternative reality on earth 2.0 that they don't think any of this happened, which is why this contradiction, i thinks is a real vulnerability for donald trump. there is no way to be the party of law and order with rioters, no way to be the party that backs the blue then says i am showing solidarity with people who viciously attacked. as you pointed out, it was the

duration and the intensity of the violence directed to these cops. so donald trump hopes to make law and order a wedge issue but this goes right at the hypocrisy of that message. and i hope that it's prosecuted and i hope that we'll have more flagrant acts of journalism who say specifically this is what donald trump is saying he's going to do and these are the people he is going to free. because i think that the more people who hear that, the more people will recognize that this just does not line up with donald trump's claims and just another data point in what a complete phony he is. >> it's the audacity, stupid election. and trump isn't going to change. i think the story is again about us. what do we do? it's disorienting because it's not, you know, our old politics

with catch and exaggeration. trump is audaciously reversing reality. i mean, the craziest thing about january 6th was for me how long it went on. i kept saying to brian williams it looks like a tailgate. why aren't they afraid of being arrested because i see them beating cops. my question is what do the rest of us do? those of us who still believe our eyes? >> well, first of all, we keep having to say exactly what our eyes saw and you know, i just want to say you said it three hours. 187 minutes that we understand donald trump was watching what was happening even as he had incoming including from his own party, begging him to take action. you know, if we continue to talk about the audacity of this and also the opportunity for us to

think about what it means to ensure that people who represent us are actually protecting our constitutional rights, is to remember that donald trump has always said i want the police and i want the military to do what i want. to do what i want. but if they don't, then i don't stand with them because they're not standing with me. and that's really what i think is so central to what officer dunn is saying. what so many others have said is look, here we are doing our jobs, our duty as public servants. but what you're doing is the antithesis of protecting people. and so the more we actually talk about what we have seen happen and what it means for our future and constitutional rights, remember that donald trump was the same donald trump that when peaceful protestors were across the street from the white house, called for violent action that

violated their constitutional rights to peacefully demonstrate. that he has said even on this campaign trail that he would in november in iowa, that he wants the ability to use the military against citizens. this is all about saying well, what i'm really about isn't law enforcement. i'm about having my own army. and that's what we have to keep reminding folks. >> harry, i'll give you the last word because i want to ask you something i always ask you. how do you do it? how do you stay positive and remain a positive force and a force for good? >> because there's so much to be done and there's so much depending on it. you know, i'm just doing what i can do. i don't for one minute think that me alone getting to congress that i'm going to fix everything. i don't think that for one minute. but what i will continue to do and what i always will do is show up. continue to fight. continue to be a voice.

democracy in these institutions are worth fighting for and if not me, then who? everybody has to take that approach. we all have to stand up and fight for our democracy because it's that important. it's worth protecting. >> harry, i love having your voice in these conversations. thank you for being here. same to you, charlie and maya. when we come back, remember when the disgraced ex-president told americans not to believe what they see and only to believe him? after the conversation we just had, it sounds absurd, but millions of his support ers continue to do just that, making it a real challenge for anyone who trades in truth and facts. we'll be joined by one such person with a message for those supporters after a very short break. later in the hour, frank guttenberg who lost his daughter in the parkland shooting, has teamed up with a former tea party congressman.

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stick with us. don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news. just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. >> seared in my mind when he said that. don't believe your eyes or ears, just me. donald trump has since then desperately pleaded dozens of times for his followers to just believe him over what they see

with their own eyes. over the facts and the truth. our next guest calls the north star in a world where people still believe the disgraced ex-president's lies. in a new column, chris quinn, the editor of the cleveland plain dealer writes back to his readers in ohio, the ones who are angry with and are confused of his coverage of donald trump. quote, i feel for those who write they believe in trump and they want their local news source to recognize what they see in him. this is not subjective. trust your eyes. trump on january 6th launched the most serious threat to our system of government since the civil war. you know that. you saw it. the facts involving trump with crystal clear and as news people, we cannot pretend otherwise as unpopular as that might be with a segment of our readers. there are not two sides to facts. people who say the earth is flat don't get space on our platforms. joining us now, chris quinn, i

saw this. it left out to me, it made my heart swell and i wonder how it was received. >> in a much better way than i expected. i prepared for a weekend of bile. i thought i was going to get eviscerated all through easter weekend and almost immediately, the opposite happened. i've never had a reaction like this. i think the most e-mails i've gotten is around 300 and i'm at 850 and it's still coming in a torrent and it is overwhelmingly in support. it's around the globe. i've heard from croatia and new zealand and all over europe. it's just a whole lot of thanks. i've never had this much in the way of well wishes in my entire career and it's been kind of affirming that there is hope. that people might be ready to move on from kind of this

nightmare we've been living. >> tell me what some of them said. >> it's mostly thank you. some say i just want to say thank you. there are a bunch with military experience or descended from grandfathers, fathers who fought in world war ii. i mentioned to what happened in 1930s germany based on a new book looking at 1932 and pointing out that back then, enablers in government helped give rise to hitler in much the same way we have enablers in government today. i was hardened. i heard from a lot of veterans that said, yes, exactly. this is what my father or grandfather fought or died for and we can't let that be trampled now. we can't have that same kind of thing take place on american

soil. >> in trump's efforts to delegitimize the media are some of his earliest. he started calling the press quote enemy os f the people in 2016. so to hear your defense of the truth was met with largely positive feedback suggests that maybe people are tired of that or what do you think it means? >> i do think there's a difference in the way people treat the national versus the regional media. i think that the relationship we have have in a regional news room like the one we have in cleveland, i'm not kidding. i got probably about 36,000 texts and e-mails from readers last year. there's a lot of communication, so while they say in polls they don't trust the media, they do come to us for local sports and local news. i don't believe that donald trump has been successful in

undermining a lot of that. we're a thriving news room unlike many in the country and the people of greater cleveland do trust us. we have a good relationship. but this went way beyond cleveland in the end. it's all over the united states. and the world. i wish i understood why this resonated. i don't really feel like we said anything we haven't said before, but this just touched a nerve like i've never seen. i wish i understood it because i'd bottle it and try to do it every week. >> i want you to bottle it and send it to me. what advice do you have for the national media? >> look, i think that what meme really want to see us do is hold people to the truth. we have a bunch of people in congress that still deny what we all saw. we all know what happened. it's incontra veritable and yet they say it didn't. what i get from the people that are writing is please make them accountable for that. if they're not going to speak

the truth, if they're not going to stand for the values that we all have in this country, hold them out. we have a senate race in ohio right now where there's a guy running where his whole pitch is i'll be the puppet for donald trump. and this is a state where we used to have george boin veitch and john glenn. two guys that never would have stood for what's been going on the last four years. the people that are writing want to get back to where their politicians have the integrity to do the right thing no matter what the consequences are. >> yeah. if they're mad at their politicians, they want to be mad about their stuff. not someone carrying someone else's stuff. and that used to be all over. i want to ask you if we can continue to call on you and trade notes because i think we have a lot to learn from just you like leveling with your readers and i hope we can continue this conversation. >> i'd be happy to. thanks for having me on. it's a pleasure to talk to you. >> thank you. the pleasure is all ours.

when we come back, they describe themselves this way. just two dads defending democracy. how fred guttenberg has teamed up with a former leader of the tea party all in an effort to stop donald j. trump. that is next. n effort to stop donald j. trump that is next ♪♪ imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over... into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers

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this hour, we have tried to cover with experts and firsthand witnesses the extremely dangerous prospect of a second trump term. we've covered the disgraced

ex-president's alarming embrace of those who carried out violence against law enforcement officials during his failed insurrection. what that reveals about his character and plans for a second term. chiefly, his relationship with the rule of law. we went through how an honest news media ought to cover such a figure. all that's missing is the fix. the look ahead. the layout of this. not just of donald trump's brief enough moment in american political history, but the bubbling, royaling toxicity in the country that elevated him to the white house in the first place. and yes. thankfully, only once, we hope. you remember our friend fred guttenberg, of course, a regular on this program. the father of jamie. a fearless advocate of gun safety legislation and you might have heard of joe walsh. he's a force on social media. turned vocal one-man warning

flashing red light about the second trump term. the two of them got to talking and now they are starring in their own budding movie and they are two men on a mission and i'm so happy to have both of you here. fred and joe joining right now. fred, you tell me how this happened. >> first, my first chance to see you since you've come back and i'm thrilled to be back with you. and i know everything is going great for you at home so congratulations. >> thank you. >> listen. my life the past six years is the life of a person who's become intensely political because of what he lost. because of how the political system failed my family. and believe in the political system's ability to achieve

democracy. i so loved your prior conversation with chris quinn about truth and facts. because everything i do is from that standpoint of we have to be honest with one another about where we are and about who the risks are if we don't vote. joe and i, years ago when i was on your show, joe and i would go at it. we did not care for each other. we didn't trust one another, then one day, he reached out and we became friends. we met and we started talking and we realized we have an awful lot in common. we have a lot we don't agree on and we have a lot we don't have in common, but we love this country, democracy, and we are both going to fight for it. >> fred, you always make me cry. i'm determined to some day have you on and not cry, but this idea of what you lost, you know, i had just solis here today.

she lost her daughter. it's all about the failures not just of our policy, but of our society, to stop the meanness. to crowd it out. if you see something, say something. what we ask every citizen to do after this heinous terrorist attack. now once great party in the country totally enabling violent rhetoric. they're beyond, joe, looking away. they're now enabling, green lighting, stepping aside to make way for more cruelty. to make way for more author tear tactics on the american people. how do you call out the bullshit in the republican party in a way, you don't need to convert them all into biden voters, but how do you wake them up and get them to stop being a threat to american democracy?

>> i think a lot of it has to do with who's trying to wake them up. you know my history. i was a divisive political asshole from the right. i was a trump supporter. i left that world because i realized you and i have talked about it. all the destruction that that leads to. here's the point. you talked about toxicity. i don't, fred and i know who we want to win in november. i believe no matter who wins in november, this country's going to be 100 more divided. and if the american people continue down this road where we want to destroy the people we disagree with, our democracy's going to fail. and i'll fully acknowledge that maga, my world on the right, is further down that road. but man, damn near all americans now are on that road where i hate the person i disagree with. i want nothing to do with them. fred and i are just trying to show people that it's possible

to listen to people you disagree with. >> well, let me just -- >> and to talk with decency. >> joe, who are you going to vote for in november? >> oh, i voted for joe biden in 2020 and i'm doing everything i can every single day to help biden get elected because i believe trump's an existential threat to our democracy and the rule of law. no doubt about it. >> i guess i wanted to put a finer point on that. while we may remain divided, only one will usher in a candidate who said he's going to turn doj basically into a personal police force to prosecute not the likes of us, but the likes of general milley, maybe bill barr. only one, i feel like part of the problem is that a lot of people out there think, oh, both sides are bad. both sides are old. both sides hate each other. only one side represents a threat to our democracy, joe.

>> agreed. i completely agree with that and look, i've spent the past five years screaming to my friends and supporters on the right, former friends and supporters on the right, that my party has become an antidemocracy party. no doubt and that's part of what fred and i are doing, but and there's no both sides here. but even if joe biden wins and i want joe biden to win and fred wants joe biden to win, this democracy that we all love is going to have a hard time standing if all of us want nothing to do with the people we disagree with. i don't think we can lose sight of that. >> yeah. fred, it's an interesting, it's an interesting nod and i think not enough tribute is paid to democrats for widening their

tent big enough for the likes of me and joe. right? i mean, it's ouchy, right? former spokesman for george w. bush. joe described him better than i ever could. but it is as historic, one of the two political parties has collapsed into authoritarian tactics and propaganda and lies and doesn't have policies anymore. their own platform at the last republican convention was trump. that was it. the other keeps sort of stretching. what have you learned from your relationship with joe about how to do that more effortlessly? >> listen. joe and i have learned the importance of listening and trust. and talking honestly about what's happening. you know, the reason why we're going out across the country and just think about the news prog today. in spite of the existential threat that he is, he sucks up

all the media oxygen. everybody's always talking about him. i walked the vice president of the united states through the school where my daughter was murdered two weeks ago. we walked her through. it's still dna and blood and shards of glass and the vice president of the united states walks through. the media didn't put the attention on that. they're talking about the bible sales man from palm beach. listen, joe and i are hoping that people do listen. they listen about the threat. i hope they listen to me when i say to them i get it. maga, they're only going to vote one way and 100% of them are going to vote that way. they are going to vote. so the rest of america, democrats, republicans, independents who love democracy, if you love democracy, you better make sure you vote, too. if you want to reduce gun violence, you know who to vote

for. you better make sure you vote. if you want to protect the economy, you know who to vote for. better make sure you vote. and joe and i, he's heard me like a soap box. i want this country to show up and vote in numbers like it never has before. >> i want to ask -- go ahead. >> i was just going to say the only other thing i'd add is we americans need to renew our social contract with each other. be more tolerant and understanding. be more respectful and stay informed. that's what we all need to do as citizens. as fred and i talk about, as we go out and talk to americans about renewing their social contract with each other, here's the beautiful thing. only one of these two candidates embodies that social contract. tolerance. respect. staying informed. only one of these two candidates reflects, embodies that social

contract and instead of hitting people over the head with biden trump, we get people excited about the social contract and they see the difference between biden and trump. >> i have to sneak in a break or i'm going to get in trouble between the swear words. i would be in the anchor dog house, but i want to ask you how we do that. i think there's a thing that you especially, fred, i think the country's been through a trauma. so some of not tolerating people who are different, people are triggered. they tense up. i want to ask both of you how sort of our traumatized country opens itself back up and trusts again. we'll be back on the other side. again. we'll be back on the other side.

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help you know what to say, even when you don't. hi! constant contact. helping the small stand tall. sounds like a series. joe, i want to just lay this out because i know that a lot of members of the democratic coalition are triggered by anything that smells like platforming, insurrectionist lies and both sidesism. and even someone sort of in good faith listening and it is justified, i view them as justified in that view because they were gas lit. they were right. the left was largely right about donald trump and the right was slow to figure it out. i had a personal window of how he was brainwashing people so i figured out really fast, but others like yourself with all due respect, came around later.

and the left has sort of welcomed everybody in the fold but they have these bright lines. one of the red lines is anyone that participated in the lies that led to the deadly insurrection and yes, it was deadly. i wonder how you feel and how you disarm people and how you get people to take down their resistance to you. >> and i agree with every single word you just said. when i came out against trump five or six years ago, i took a blow torch to my career and i had to pay my dues for a number of years because good people on the left didn't trust what tea party joe walsh was doing. let me be clear about this. two dads defending democracy. fred guttenberg and joe walsh. i'm still a tea party conservative. fred's a good, committed democrat. we are putting all of our policy differences to the side this year. to tell the country if you want to defend democracy, donald

trump cannot win. that's one big, important point. but the second thing i'd say is this. i do come from the world of maga. i helped to enflame these people year after year. they consider me publicly to be a traitor. and when i engage with them publicly, the conversation goes nowhere. but i engage with them every day and when i engage with them privately, privately, i'm able to help move some of them. and even though we want trump, we desperately need trump to lose this year, after the election, this country's got to heal. and we're not going to heal if all of them are off the planet. so i will never stop reaching out to them privately. >> fred, your thoughts on this. >> yes. you know, i always had a lesson for my kids.

and i would be a hypocrite if i didn't do what i taught them, which is this. it's always easy to engage with people who you agree with but it's always necessary and important to engage with those who you don't agree. it's the only half. and engaging with people who you disagree with doesn't require hate. unfortunately, the demagogue on the other side that is this path, that's the only thing he has is to instigate hate and joe and i are here is to say no. you don't need to hate because you disagree. you need to sit down and talk and find common ground, which in fact we've been able to do. we disagree on a ton of stuff, but i love the guy and you know what, i know most americans don't want hate in their lives, in their politics. you've asked me over the years, what gives me hope. i've always said to you it's because no matter where i go in

this country, whether it's red or blue, i meet americans who want to protect their families. who love this democracy. who want to do the right thing. and so all i can say is to every one of those americans, validate my hope. show up and vote. it's all i'm asking anyone to do. vote. >> fred and joe, you guys filled me up. liz cheney and rachel maddow had some echoes. next time we're going to fight about policy. it's not the same, but it's an echo of a growing universe that recognizes the extraordinary nature of this moment. we'll go back to debating policy, but that isn't what the election is about. let's continue this. i want to hear what you're hearing and i would love maybe some hand held shots of your interactions. i would love to learn how it's done. thank you so much for making

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she shoots from here? that's kinda my thing. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. the beat starts now. hi, ari. >> thank you very much and welcome to the beat. tonight, we have a special report on elon musk's free speech hypocrisy from that don lemon controversy