it's interesting that the narrative has shifted away from, you know, some of the hand wringing from earlier this year. but i think he's got a lot of -- about his age and his capacity and everything, but i think he's got a long way to go to be able to do that. however, i do think that some of the polling would suggest that more and more americans are coming to grips with something i think they have been in denial about, that this was going to be a rerun of biden versus trump. they didn't want that rerun but that's what they're going to get. >> and now we'll have to see how americans feel about that choice now that it is right in front of them. msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes, thank you as always. have a good weekend. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning and all week long, "morning joe" starts right now. truth social, you have seen the stock on the move in this

i'll call it remarkable, maybe even crazy way. >> two words, gamestop. >> that's what you think is going on here? >> i mean, it's ridiculous. the company has no revenue. >> but do you think it could ever be a bigger business? do you think if he wins the presidency it becomes -- >> no. no. why would it be bigger? >> he's only interested now because he's entertaining the folks. i hope if he gets elected he plays golf for four years. >> do you think all of the investors are getting scammed? do you think this is a transference of wealth from one side to the other, what do you think is happening? >> i think they're dopes. who would buy a company that literally, what does it have, $30 of revenue? how could you put a value on it? they're buying it for other reasons, just like they bought theaters when there was no theater business or they bought game stop or whatever. it's stupid stuff.

>> there was a thousand times revenue, i think. >> what? >> wasn't it 4 million. >> $4 million in revenue. that's $4 million in revenue. that's ridiculous. >> why are you even talking about this, it's a scam just like everything he's ever been involved in is some sort of con. >> that is billionaire media executive, barry diller slamming trump media and his investors, comparing the company to meme stocks with no real value. good morning, welcome to "morning joe," friday, april 5th, teaming up with bernie sanders on the issue of tiktok, we'll show you that campaign pitch. plus, a new development in the race for the white house. it's looking less likely there will be a serious third party candidate this year. and speaking of third party candidates, robert f. kennedy jr.'s campaign disowns its own fundraising e-mail hours after sending it out. we'll explain what they sent out

and why they're doing that. with us the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass, u.s. special correspondent for the bbc, katy tur, and associate editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson. joe, a lot to get to. quickly back to truth social, the word you're looking for there is dismissive from barry diller, wondering why we're discussing a company that had $4 million in revenue last year, lost $58 million. and yet, the fan boys of donald trump propping up the stock briefly before it came crashing down. >> yeah, and it will keep crashing down even more. it's a complete scam, willie, and we do have a lot of news to get to today, but first, there are moments in time that really mark the passing of a generation, if you're a sports fan.

of course 1980 in lake placid, 2004, of course, when the red sox dreamed the impossible deem. it was unbelievable. you could talk about of course jim valvano's extraordinary win, the wolf pack's win, and then last night at citi field, take a look at this. >> 3-2, coming to taylor. and it's hooked, base hit down the left field line. here comes baty around third. he will score and the mets have their first win of the season. tyrod taylor with a game winning hit. >> wow. wow. >> the new york mets. you know, i wanted to hear "give me one moment in time," and if the 13 people at citi field

could have held hands, come together and held hands. it looked like atlanta, fulton county stadium when i was a young kid going to see the braves play, and you would be sitting behind home plate, and jeff boroughs would hit a foul ball down the right field line. at first, you thought you had to run, right, to right field to get the ball, and pretty soon you figured out you could walk. nobody else was there. you pick up the ball, hey. oh, look. joe scarborough is down there, little 6-year-old joey. they knew all of our names that went to those games. but the mets won a game. and let me say, i will say, i was very excited about -- it was great to see how excited they were, right? the fans are down on them and everything, but, you know, these guys, they know it's early in

the year, and they could come back and, you know, good season. they could only lose 96, 97 games this year. >> you know, gary cohen, the great play by play announcer for the mets, he sort of gave us a nice snapshot of these early days of the mets season. the mets were down 1-0 in the 8th inning, they had lost the first game of the double header, winless for the season. here's the way gary cohen saw it. >> nobody in the ballpark, 0-5, hitless through seven. feels like rock bottom. >> rock bottom, and it's april 3rd or whatever it was yesterday. april 4th. something. that's tough. >> yeah, rock bottom, and they had gone 13 innings without a hit. but my gosh, willie, and we talk about this all the time, it's april. it's april. right? there is such a long way to go

in baseball. baseball actually, baseball is life. you can be 0-6. you can be 2-14, and get your act together and win the world series. gosh, look at the atlanta braves, a team that has just been touring the second half of the season the past couple of years. so there's hope for all of us, which of course, lemire and i both know the reverse of this is the fact that the sox started 5-2. man they look like winners, by the way, go liverpool. they look like real winners, it's a long way to go. >> you left out the yankees, they're 6-1. >> hold on, let me respond to this first. you're right about the sox that have been encouraging and a pleasant surprise, 5-2, go to the angels tonight. haven't even played a game at fenway. the mets, before that happened,

a friend of mine sent me a picture of carl mendoza, and making the liz trust comparison, that his time would be as short as that prime minister. the mets get a win, gary cohen's pathetic tableau turns into one of obscene celebration, maybe they turn things around. >> maybe they turn things around, and this is exactly why we have katty kay here to talk about liz truss and the head of cabbage and the new york mets and a house divided between arsenal and citi as we go deep with mika off. good luck navigating that. maybe liverpool can take care of it and win the premier league by themselves, right, katty? >> city is struggling, it's a moment of humility for my husband. he hasn't known one for a very

long time. >> exactly. >> i don't know. i think you might be the only happy one. i don't think i'm going to have a happy son or husband in my household this year. you'll be the one to blame, joe. let me know when you're done with baseball, and i'll finish whatever it is i was doing, and talk to me in my ear and i'll get back to you. >> give me about 30 seconds because i'm going to get a phone call from mika if i don't move this long quickly. richard, we're not going to talk about the yankees, they're going to win 129 games this year, and if you don't win 129 games, you're abject failures. we're going to finish this up with gene and say, what about the nationals, man, america's team? >> america's team. well, we're not quite having a mets like beginning of the season. i think we're like 2-3 or 2-4, something like that, so we have got wins.

it's, you know, we're hoping that we're clamming out of the rebuilding phase. the pitcher we hope is going to become our ace, and he's a great young pitcher, josiah gray, he's had a couple of rocky outings. and so he'll settle down. i think he'll get into his rhythm. i think we'll have a decent season. i'm not looking for us to finish at the top of the table. but i think we'll be ahead of the mets, frankly. >> well, that's, boy, that's not saying a lot, but -- >> i set the bar. >> nationals, though, willie, it's a great place. i don't know if you've seen them play, but got a great stadium, a great place to see baseball. >> could be a long season there, we'll see. it's very early. six games in. by the way, shoutout to the

tigers and pirates, great baseball cities off to big starts. we'll see if they can keep it going. i speak to mika when i say let's get to the news now. thank you. thank you very much, katty. let's begin this hour with president biden's warning to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the two leaders spoke by phone yesterday for about 30 minutes. it was their first conversation since the israeli air strikes that killed seven food aid workers in gaza. the white house says the president told the prime minister israel needs to change its approach to gaza with immediate action, and that future support for the country from the united states depends on them doing so. secretary of state antony blinken who was on the call gave more detail about the conversation yesterday while at nato meetings in brussels. >> the president emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable. he made clear the need for israel to announce a series of

specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers. he made clear that u.s. policy with respect to gaza will be determined by our assessment of israel's immediate action on these steps. he underscored as well that an immediate cease fire is essential to stabilize and improve the humanitarian situation and protect citizens and urged prime minister netanyahu to empower his negotiators to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home. >> after the phone call between president biden and prime minister netanyahu, israel committed to opening more aid routes into gaza saying it will use the ashdod port for the direct delivery of assistance and will open a crossing to allow aid to reach the northern part of the territory. israel also will significantly increase the amount of deliveries from jordan into gaza. no timetable spelled out yet. however, according to a white

house national security council spokesperson, the steps announced by israel, quote, must now be fully and rapidly implemented. so, joe, another intense phone call, this time between president biden and prime minister netanyahu, all of course coming on the heels of that awful tragedy where seven aid workers were killed. we had one of the ministers, foreign mayor of jerusalem on our show yesterday, didn't seem terribly sympathetic to what happened, said it was a quote, mistake, but wanted to focus on other things and continue the war there. it's clear now from the white house that there will be conditions, perhaps, going forward on aid from the united states to israel. >> right. and he wanted to talk about the hostages, and of course that's great. mented -- wanted to ignore the fact that the gaza people are facing famine, extraordinary hardship, and wanted to talk about hamas as do we. we all agree that hamas, and we

have always believed hamas were a group of terrorist thugs. but that separates us from benjamin netanyahu who, again, it can't be said enough benjamin netanyahu saw hamas as a political ally for years. benjamin netanyahu was responsible for the funding of that terrorist organization for years. benjamin netanyahu told qatar to give tens of millions of more dollars to hamas weeks before the attack. the worst attack on jews since the holocaust. so for those, and i've heard it, read it for the past 16, 18 hours since this phone call. for those saying, oh, but what about hamas, how could joe biden

not talk about hamas, why doesn't joe biden see hamas as the real enemy here? he does. but that's what separates, richard haass, joe biden from benjamin netanyahu. joe biden never saw hamas as an ally. benjamin netanyahu did, and those who are attacking joe biden for stepping in and actually trying to help israel help itself, they claim to be right wing supporters of israel. in fact, they're just like a parent that wants to shove candy down a diabetic child's throat. what they are doing, what they are suggesting hurts israel in the short run and in the long run. and they knew it. and they knew it. and i would love to see all of the editorials talking about how much damage this is doing to the standing of israel in america,

in the west, and across the world. because, unlike what the "wall street journal" editorial page says this morning, this is not coming from left wing anti-israel factions. this is coming from, in my case, a conservative pro israeli faction. in the president's case, a very pro israeli democrat. there are those of us who actually want israel to be protected from the damage that benjamin netanyahu is inflicting on the gazan people and on the israeli people and on the families of the hostages and on israel's long-term standing, health and strength in the world community. >> yeah, this whole phrase, pro israel actually makes it almost impossible to have a serious conversation. the idea that if you're critical of israeli government policy,

the most right wing government in israel's history, the government, as you said, that for years green lighted support to hamas simply to divide and conquer the palestinian political movement, the government that was asleep at the switch on october 7th, if somehow you criticize them, then that makes you anti-israel, and if you give them blanket support, that makes you pro israel, even though as you say, a lot of what they're doing is harmful to the relationship between israeli and its most important backer, the united states. so certain terms like pro israel and the rest, let's put those to the side. i think the real test now going forward, joe, after the focal is what do the israelis take from this, yes, they have slightly opened the spigots on food aid. why it took them so long, we can put that conversation to the side right now. >> i don't want to put that conversation to the side. it is increasingly looking like

benjamin netanyahu had a plan to force famine on the palestinian people on the gazan people to amp up the pressure on hamas. of course it seems to me that the hostages aren't even secondary in his mind because of course, and people say hamas could release hostages, yeah, they could. they're terrorists. they're terrorists. they're not going to release the hostages unless the conditions are right. which the conditions most likely are a cease fire and the allowing of the worst terrorists to escape out of gaza with their lives. but this whole idea that if we starve the gazan people, that's going to somehow help israel in the long run, that's going to help the hostages, no. it's hurting the hostages, it's hurting israel, and of course you're starving women and children in gaza, and as katty

said yesterday, they're now having to grind up dog food and cat food and eat that and drink salt water. i mean, it's savage conditions, and it's calculated and let me say, it's calculated just like stalin's starvation of ukrainians was calculated. this is calculated by benjamin netanyahu and somebody needs to ask me why the hell the united states shouldn't intervene with a guy that has a 20% approval rating and knows that when the war is over, he could be going to jail. >> what you're seeing from israeli policy i would argue is truly misguided. we'll call it what it is, a siege on gaza, as you say, but in these kinds of situations, we have learned from the american experience in the middle east, the old argument, you've got to try to win the hearts and minds. what's striking to me about

israeli policy, there's nothing to win over the people. you see the siege on humanitarian supplies. the fact that maybe 18 or 20,000 civilians have been killed, not to mention the 200 aid workers, settlement activity, land appropriation continuing. you see no introduction of any ideas politically that would offer a political alternative to the violence of hamas, so how is this supposed to end well? does israel seriously think it can somehow militarily alone destroy palestinian nationalism as manifested by hamas, and that's going to do it? what's striking to me is both what israel is doing, joe, and how it's doing it, but also what it's not doing. this is a policy that i would say is doomed to fail. >> you know, jonathan, we have always said that those chanting from the river to the sea, i'll say it myself, are talking about

driving israel into the sea. it is an anti-semitic chant. it is an anti-israeli chant. sadly, that's where benjamin netanyahu has come. i mean, he now is taking a position and the extremists in his government are taking the position of from the river to the sea. this is all israel. the gazans need to leave. we're going to continue to sale lands from the palestinians in the west bank. we're going to continue driving palestinians off their own land. benjamin netanyahu and these extremists now say all of the land is theirs. the west bank, gaza, everything, the palestinians need to leave. let me tell you something, the trump administration thought that they could get middle east peace by cutting the

palestinians out. i thought it was a preposterous idea at the time. i was glad to see some arab nations making peace with israel. their calculation was, we can buy off these countries. we can give them something that they want, and all the arab countries hate the palestinians anyway. so they'll be glad to cut the palestinians out of the peace deal. that was the calculation. you can't cut the palestinians out. we've seen what happens when you try to pretend they don't exist, and this is the fantasy world that benjamin netanyahu is living in. and why should americans that don't give a damn about the middle east care about it? because it impacts us. because we are israel's guarantor, not just militarily, but we guarantee their existence. and if we're going to guarantee their existence like we have

since 1948, then we need a partner that is going to act responsibly and is going to understand there has to be a two-state solution. and now they've moved away from it. there's no two-state solution. it's just not going to work. and the united states can't continue as israel's partner if there's not going to be a two-state solution because we're going to see war for another one, 60, 70, 80 years, and we're going to be in the middle of it. >> netanyahu is operating in open defiance of what president biden and the white house has wanted for months now. pre-dating even october 7th, some judicial reforms, and that's only accelerated since then. and yesterday, that phone call was the u.s. laying down a marker, this is an ultimatum, things need to change soon in terms of hours and days. however, still not quite clear what the consequence would be. there's suggestion of aid and perhaps conditions being placed to aid or military weapons, but they weren't spelled out.

it wasn't quite clear what israel would do to trigger those conditions, katty, and this comes at a moment, of course, where president biden is under immense criticism. he's been under criticism from progressives for quite some time about his handling of the war there in gaza. lately far more mainstream voices as well saying he needs to stand up to netanyahu. some of his closest allies in the democratic party have said enough is enough, this can't keep going like this. we are seeing aid workers killed, the immense toll on civilians. this impacts the standing around the world. let's get to analysis here. did president biden do enough yesterday, and do we think prime minister netanyahu is going to listen? >> the question is whether the israelis do enough. the white house's argument speaking to them yesterday, we didn't put condition on aid because we wanted to have leverage on the table. we wanted to be in the discussions as they were happening around gaza, so to try and make things if possible

better. but even the white house recognizes that they haven't got very much to show for that leverage, and american diplomats in the region have been telling the bbc that america frankly looks weak at the moment. it looks like it keeps giving to israel and getting nothing back in return. that's not a position that the white house wants to be in, but gene, you know, if i was sitting in israel right now, a couple of things would really concern me, beyond today, and that is what on earth is the long-term plan for all of those people in gaza. as don rumsfeld used to say, if you kill one person in some of those situations in iraq, you have created ten more terrorists. they have killed 30,000 people. every one of those families is going to have a grudge against israel and they'll be prepared to take up bombs against israel. we saw this in lebanon, it can last for a generation. so what's the plan, really, for dealing with gaza and for the citizens of gaza who remain, many of whom have suffered

enormously? and then the issue is what do you do about america where polls were showing even before october the 7th that young americans just don't feel the same way about israel. we're seeing a generational shift in this country with people as we get further away from the second world war saying, i don't know, should israel be given the kind of blank check that we don't give to other countries? >> all of what you just said, netanyahu does not see that writing on the wall, but what israel is doing, what it has done already to this point is ensure another 25 years, another generation of palestinians who have a grudge, who have hatred for what the israelis have done this year, and i think it's going to be to be palestinians seen as another nockba, which is

how they refer to 1948 and the foundation of israel when a lot of palestinians lost their homes. i think it's going to have that scale of impact because you're talking not only about gaza having been reduced likely to rubble, but now you're talking about famine and you're talking about widespread hunger, and you're talking about what is it, 33,000 deaths so far. and counting. it is so shortsighted and there is no good answer to the questions you posed or no answer that's good for israel. it is on benjamin netanyahu at this point, and, you know, president biden. i can imagine that phone call yesterday, i don't think it was polite.

president biden was at all polite in that phone call, but netanyahu will bob and weave and i see no indication that he's ready to get serious about the u.s. and the international demands which are for an immediate cease fire, and for humanitarian aid. and i have a question for richard haass, which is that we just had a clip of secretary blinken speaking, and so he went down those u.s. demands and he said, there must be an immediate cease fire. and then in sort of the next sentence he said, and, you know, we take steps to get all the hostages home. it seemed to me that before the administration had those both in the same sentence. you know, it was kind of like a deal to bring home the hostages and have an immediate cease fire all in a package. it almost sounded to me as if blinken were separating those

two and said we need an immediate cease fire now. we also need a deal to get the hostages home. is that how you heard it? do you think there's been that sort of shift in u.s. policy? >> i heard it that way also, but it's important to remember that the deal the u.s. is trying to negotiate using bill burns, the head of the cia is not for an open-ended cease fire, and it's not to get all the hostages back. it's a pause again, if you will, a temporary cease fire for some of the hostages, and my guess is that's the most that's on the table. hamas understands all too well that hostages are a principle source of their leverage, and all of this, gene, circles back, i think one of the big debates in the next few days is not simply the amount of aid that goes in, not simply how israel uses military force but whether israel uses military force on a large scale. people have forgotten, israel is still poised to go into rafah. you have a million palestinians

concentrated in southern gaza, and the question is does israel go ahead with this, does the united states persuade them to hold off for a temporary cease fire. does israel go in, i think the call simply tees up the fact that israel and the united states are not on the same page as to what is meant to happen next. >> but, richard, could i just follow up, one other question, which is if there were -- is the u.s. idea that if there were a temporary cease fire that that could be somehow lengthened into more permanent cease fire. is that the u.s. hope? >> i don't see how that could happen unless israel agreed to withdraw. hamas's demands for a permanent cease fire are the end of the israeli military presence in gaza. that is not the u.s. position because that would essentially mean that israel would accept hamas's permanence and that would be the end to any military reprisals for october 7th or any

military actions to degrade hamas. that would be a fundamental change in the u.s. position. i do think the u.s., though, is coming around to the idea that they don't want to see any major military operations. they would be comfortable with israel acting in a very targeted, calibrated way, not the renewal of big military operations. >> joe, we're just getting some breaking news into us as we discuss this, which is the idf releasing its report on what exactly happened when seven people were killed working with world central kitchen in that three-vehicle convoy a few days ago. i'm just reading some pieces of it. it's a lengthy report. the investigation's findings indicate the incident should not have occurred. those who approved the strike were convinced they were targeted armed operatives and not world central employees. the strike is a grave mistake, stemming from a serious failure,

due to mistake in identification, errors in decision making and an attack contrary to the standard operating procedures. a couple of the commanders have been dismissed from their positions. several others have been formally reprimanded. in this report, anyway, joe, idf taking full responsibility saying it was a grave mistake. the full report is available now. it was just posted. people can read through it, draw their own conclusions. they say they thought there were hamas terrorists insides warehouse. they thought they had gotten into some of those trucks and were moving through gaza. tragically mistaken about that. they promised a report. it's out. it's posted now. the idf calling it a grave mistake, and again, a couple of commanders have been dismissed from their positions and a few others have been formally reprimanded by the military. >> we'll be of course awaiting the response from chef jose andres, and, you know, richard,

tragic mistakes happen in war. the united states has made tragic mistakes in every war. the "wall street journal" tries to put this down to a one-off, suggests that joe biden was using this one incident, this one tragedy to go after israel. that's ridiculous. this is the end of a long line of unfortunate decisions made by the netanyahu government. it's been damaging. i just, though, want to talk about -- first of all, i agree with you, the israeli government won't accept hamas as a permanent fixture in gaza. they shouldn't. hamas can never ever run gaza again. there are many ways to do that without starving and killing

10,000 more civilians. i agree with that. i'm sure you do too that hamas can never ever run gaza again. but the second thing is, you talked about the most right wing government ever. unfortunately it's not like the united states, i don't think, in this case, where we always seem to be going back and forth. we'll go too far right, and then americans -- the midterms will bring it to the middle and go left, too far left, and we have this balance, this counter balance in american politics, and we will even after the age of trump is mercifully over. but unfortunately in the case of israel, religious extremists have continued to move in to israel. and religious extremists continue to have more control over the netanyahu government, and i fear that religious extremists who do not care about

considerations that most of the israeli people care about, they will continue. the small minority will continue to control the netanyahu government, and unfortunately i'm afraid governments in the future if the trend continues. >> two things, 100% gaza should not have a role in the future. but you can't beat something with nothing. if you want to basically sideline hamas, yes, you militarily pressure them. that's only half of it. you've got to show there's a better path, if palestinians are willing to rule out violence, they can realize some of their political ambitions. that is 100% missing from the policy of this israeli government. second of all, you raised a really good point, everyone is saying we have to have elections, we have to get rid of bibi netanyahu, i get that, but 13 to 14% of israel is now ultra

orthodox, that's the fastest growing minority in israel. if one looks at the russian immigration, the demography of israel is changing politically. there's no longer a left in israel to speak of. it's not clear to me that future israeli governments down the road is going to necessarily having a meaningfully forthcoming policy toward the palestinians. >> i don't mean to interrupt you. i don't want people to understand this. this isn't about right/left. this is about religious extremists versus secular jew, and when i say secular, i'm just talking about the government like the united states government and other governments being driven by more secular considerations instead of theocracy in iran. you know, israel has always been one of the countries in the region. the only country in the region not run by theocracy or by

monarchs, so this is, again, it's not right versus left, this is secular versus religious extremist us. >> what you also have is a fusion of religious nationalism. that's what we're seeing in the netanyahu government. october 7th both reflects, has galvanized it. it was there before october 7th. it's now more serious. it's worse. and i think it raises real questions. we began this conversation in some ways talking about the growing alienation between a younger generation of americans in israel. well, one of the things that worries me is if the kind of forces in israel we're just discussing here become dominant over time, i actually think that will increase the breach between the united states and israel. it's one of the many things that worries me looking down the road. >> and willie, it does seem that prime minister netanyahu is taking some steps to appease what president biden asked him yesterday, opening up aid routes, putting out this report

about the aid strike, the strike that killed aid workers. real flash points, particularly rafah, in the call this week, israel thought they could clear rafah and make it ready for military operation providing safe havens for civilians in four weeks. u.s. officials think that will take four months and that's a significant gap, and there could be a real problem there for washington if israel goes in while those civilians are still there, and as a final note, we have been talking a lot about the congressional aid package, supplemental for ukraine. there was a lot of chatter last night in the wake of what happened in israel, there will be democrats that oppose that bill because it will provide aid to israel because they're so upset about what's happened and they want to see real changes from netanyahu's policy going forward in order to vote for it. there's significant flash points ahead even in the wake of this call. >> john, on the question of whether israel will change its military strategy, you and i were sitting across on the set, with the former mayor of

jerusalem, he said plainly, we're going into rafah, we're going to finish this job, period, end of story. it did not seem like someone ahead of that call or a government ready to change its direction. one note as we head to break here. we told you about the breaking idf report on what happened to the world central kitchen, saying it was a grave mistake, mistake in identification, errors in decision making, now a statement from world central kitchen that says the idf has acknowledged its responsibility and fatal errors in the deadly attack on our convoy in gaza. it's taking disciplinary action against those in command and committed to other reforms. these are important steps forward, however it is also clear from the preliminary investigation the idf has deployed deadly force without regard to protocols, chain of command and rules of engagement. the statement goes on, we demand the creation of an independent commission to investigate the killings of our wck colleagues, the idf cannot credibly

investigate its own failure in gaza. that's part of the statement this morning from world central kitchen. much more on this ahead. richard haass, thank you very much. and still ahead this morning, new legal trouble for donald trump as new york attorney general letitia james questions the financial stability of the firm behind that $175 million bond he posted. plus, the no labels group abandons plans for a third-party presidential ticket. we'll tell you who the organization's national director now is supporting in november. also ahead this morning, president biden heading to baltimore today for a look at the federal response to last week's bridge collapse. we'll be joined by maryland governor wes moore ahead of the president's visit. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ning joe." we'll be right back.

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visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. trump hosted a star-studded fundraiser at mar-a-lago last night for a maga robot named kari lake. it was quite a who's who headlined by none other than rose anne bar. >> e-mail me or twitter me, and i'll help you with your life, because it isn't nothing but devil worshipping, baby blood drinking. >> the conners, new tonight on abc. >> seems like she's doing great. >> she's not doing well. so this is a story that i think is so important and it's been flying under the radar, i think, for a lot of politicians, pollsters. i remember having a conversation a few weeks ago with a pollster

who couldn't figure out why there was a growing divide between young men and young women politically with young men breaking far more to the right than young women. well, according to a recent analysis by the economist, data shows that the rich countries, younger women are becoming sharply more liberal while the male peers are not. the divide is evident here in the united states. the latest "wall street journal" poll finds president biden drawings 37% of men in the swing states on the ballot that includes him and trump. those are far weaker showings than the 46% biden won in 2020 election. in 2020, biden won 55% of women, and 46% of men, a gap of nine points in the journal's national and swing state polls. that gap is now at 13 points due mostly to his deteriorating

support among men. you know, and, willie, this is something that i remember in 2017, 2018, talking to a friend that was the head of school at one of the most elite prep schools in america and saying from just what i was picking up from these campuses, these elite campuses, whether it was prep schools or colleges, i said to him, i said, listen, you have to understand something, if you keep pushing young boys, young men into the corner telling them, you know, that they're toxic or just suggesting they're guilty because they're men, you shove them into that corner, i promise you they're going to come out trumpers. whatever you think you're doing, whatever wrongs you think you were writing, you're actually

doing just the opposite. you are going to strengthen donald trump and strengthen people like donald trump with these actions. he smiled, we remained friends, and of course he and everybody else did absolutely nothing, and it's not just in elite prep schools, willie, and elite colleges, even though that's happening there. not as much as i think it was a few years ago, but you've seen it just like so many other new york city parents have. >> yeah, i mean, if you tell young boys and young men that they are toxic, that they are in some ways inherently bad, they begin to resent that and look for a place that's not telling them that, in fact, is saying the opposite. it's such a complicated and fascinating issue. i'm so glad we're doing this segment because there is something about recapturing some old version of masculinity that donald trump and podcasters and a certain culture in this country that is really putting its finger on and trying to

convince men and young men that they can help bring us back to that place. then there's also the other side of it, which is pushing men away in many ways. and there are so many inequities and inequalities in terms of gender that need to be righted over centuries and centuries, and we're on our way to doing better with that, i hope. but i think you can do two things at once as we say on the show, you can lift people up without pushing the other gender down. let's continue the conversation with the deputy editor of the economist, lead author of the piece we just mentioned, robert guest. it's great to have you on. the piece in the economist, why young men and women are drifting apart, you're talking about why we're seeing divergent priorities between the sexes. you write in part, the most likely causes of the growing division are education, young men are getting less than women. advanced concerns have become less sexist and men and women experience this differently. and echo chambers, social media

aggravate polarization. in democracies, many politicians on the right are definitely stoking young male grievances, while many on the left barely acknowledge young men have real problems. but they do. starting with education. although the men at the top are doing fine, many of the rest are struggling. in rich countries, 28% of boys and only 18% of girls fail to reach the minimum level of reading proficiency, and women have overtaken men at universities. so, robert, where do you start looking at this trend? what's the source of this? because as you say, it was equal for many many years, and it seems to have gone in a different direction in recent? >> what we start by is remembering this is not just an american problem. this is something we're seeing all around rich and developed countries, you know, places as different as sort of poland and america, france, south korea, china, and then you've got to

look at what's changed. we were very very careful not to exaggerate this. we got our data team to look very carefully at the highest quality polling and how it had changed over time, and we found that the gap, if you put yourself on a scale of sort of, you know, 1 to 10 from sort of very liberal to very conservative, 20 years ago, there was basically no difference between young men and women. 18 to 29-year-olds across the rich countries we looked at. now the gap is .75. that may not sound like much, most people cluster around the middle. it's a big gap, about twice as large as the gap between people who went to college, and people who didn't go to college. people who go to college tend to skew more liberal. in america, the gap is double the average, 1.4. that's very big, and that suggests that people are hearing a different account of reality.

and partly because men are more likely to be doing badly in education, and that affects them in the job market and the data market. a minority are blaming women for the fact that they're not doing well in the job market and the dating market, and then when you add social media to that, everyone's in these echo chambers, so, you know, if you're female and you look at a me too story, you're going to be served up more me too stories. if you're a guy and you look at someone being falsely accused of rape, you're going to be served more stories like that. this gives you a greatly exaggerated view of the risks that you personally face. and that's very polarizing. >> robert, i wrote quite a lot about this in a book i wrote last year "the power code", and we looked at loss aversion theory, the idea that young men in particular felt that they were losing out and that caused resentment. they didn't see the pie growing. there was a sort of theory that, you know, if women were getting on better, that must mean they

were getting on worse. i'm not entirely sure women are getting on better. there's a report showing the number of women in c suites in america has declined for the first time in a while. perhaps everybody is losing out. one of the political theories that i had heard posited was that because women have been at the kind of losing end of power structures until fairly recently, when they start getting into power, they retain more empathy for immigrants or for people lower down the scale. they tend to have more support, understandably for dei initiatives, it's not just that men are going to the right. it's that women are becoming more liberal and i wanted you to talk about that side of the equation, what's happening there? >> this is about how people express their sort of political allegiance, and i think, you know, generally speaking, younger generations are more liberal than older generations. there's also a tendency to take for granted all the progress

that's happened in the past, and understandably to focus on the things that still need correcting. so, you know, it's not an issue anymore whether women are allowed to enter the legal profession, which was a really big deal back in the 1960s. things like sort of marital rape have been criminalized everywhere. certainly in rich countries. so people tend to take for granted the progress of the path, which has been considerable and focus on the problems they're facing in the future. and for women, that means you're focusing on things like the, you know, imbalance in the c suite, which is still very large. when young men who haven't been to college hear about that and they're told, you shouldn't be complaining because the c suites are almost entirely male. that's other men. that's not us. you know, we're the guys who are struggling to make a living. like i said with social media, they tend to get an exaggerated view of how bad things are for

them, and how likely really bad things are to happen to them. some of the interviews we did. we interviewed a guy in atlanta who said that if you go to the gym and you look in the general direction of a woman, next minute you're going to be famous on tiktok as an abuser. this hadn't happened to him. this hadn't happened to anybody he met. he'd seen it on his phone. it loomed large in his consciousness, and, you know, i think a lot of people, it's probably a good idea if we kind of calm down a bit, realize that the world is not quite as bad as it seems on social media. and try to concentrate on fixing the things that we can. and one of the sort of obvious things that we could do would be to try to improve the outcomes for the men in education at the bottom level. so boys in education, because that's something you can do without, you know, dragging down girls. if you've got 28% of men and boys in rich countries not learning how to read properly to the sort of basics standard,

that's a very big handicap in the job market in a way that it wasn't, you know. a generation ago, the loss aversion thing you mentioned, guys are saying, my dad was able to get a job just using his hands. why can't i. well, you know, those jobs are gone. >> so, robert, i have been reading for some time now that the divide between men and women going to college and graduating from college continues -- the divide continues to grow with far more women going to college now than men. what's causing that? why are men struggling education wise? it's not just because a second grade teacher called a boy toxic, is it? >> it's not that. i mean, this is a very difficult question. partly it's that a lot of girls

seem to find school discipline easier to deal with. they're better at sitting down and concentrating, particularly at a young age. it may be because girls are seeing more role models in schools. almost all primary schools in rich countries are female, middle school teachers too. there's an argument made by richard reeves who's looked into this, a guy who used to be at the brookings institution who suggested that actually because boys mature more slowly, you should get them starting school as a default one year later, and there's also been a failure of coming up with new kinds of vocational education. not everyone is going to go to college, but vocational education should be equipping the boys who aren't quite so bookish to do some nontraditional jobs. there's vacancies in health care and administration and teaching. we're not really creating pathways for them to go into that, and you know, getting a

decent job and being able to support yourself and possibly a family is one of the sort of building blocks, most basic building blocks of adulthood. if people can't make that transition, they're going to get angry. >> boy, we have pushed this idea, sort of an all or nothing, go to traditional colleges, you get grad degrees, law degrees, whatever, or do nothing. you're exactly right. vocational education is so critically important, and it hasn't been emphasized enough. deputy editor at the economist, robert guest, thank you so much for being with us, and for this important article. we greatly appreciate it. and gene robinson, i thought it was so fascinating how robert described the dynamics of social media. and of course my kids always not on social media so much, and are skeptical of it. and i hear around the dinner table said that, you know,

whether it's instagram or some other social media, they will be sent things that intentionally provoke them because of course you want a response, provoke response, provoke response, and you also then get back more of basically an echo chamber is created when instagram figures out where you are or whatever. but how fascinating that if you're a woman, a young woman, you'll be fed me too stories, me too stories, me too stories, and if you're a young man, you might be fed stories that talk about men falsely accused of rape, men being set up, men being lied about. and so you have these echo chambers, and as robert said, the truth is that it's just maybe it happened in spokane, washington, two months ago, and

is a kid is reading it in pensacola, florida, saying look what they're doing to men. and same thing with women. and it's just a vicious cycle. >> well, it is a vicious cycle. that is one thing that's different. social media is one thing that's different from, you know, now as opposed to when you and i grew up. but at the same time, girls are getting streams on social media of, you know, they're on instagram, they're seeing unattainable bodies. they're being kind of ashamed about their appearance or feeling shamed about their appearance. it's not like it's all, you know, milk and cookies for girls on social media as well. and so i guess that's why i still have trouble understanding this male fragility that we're seeing now, and that's kind of

what it looks like. i don't know about you, but i had women teachers in grade school. i didn't know there was such a thing as a male teacher until i got well up in the grades. and, you know, it just doesn't seem that it can be just that. maybe social media does affect boys differently from girls in terms of education and ambition. maybe it has something to do with the difficulty in making a living with your hands anymore. but i still think we need to understand why boys are so fragile right now. >> eugene robinson, important conversation. thank you so much, we appreciate it. we'll see you soon. as we cross the top of the hour here, we turn to president biden's warning to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the two leaders spoke by phone yesterday for about 30 minutes. it was their first conversation since the israeli air strikes

that killed seven food aid workers in gaza. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez has more. >> reporter: president biden is warning israel that without immediate action to protect civilians in its war against hamas, u.s. policy towards its staunch ally will change. the direct message coming during a phone call between the president and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> the president emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable. >> reporter: the 30-minute call was the first between the two leaders in nearly three weeks and marks a much tougher tone towards israel. the white house says the president made clear the need for israel to announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering and the safety of aid workers. the white house has repeatedly said israel faces a genocidal threat from hamas, just this week saying there will be no change in policy.

but two u.s. officials tell nbc news the president strongly implied he may condition american military aid to israel on whether netanyahu makes immediate changes over humanitarian concerns in gaza. including getting to a cease fire. the white house saying changes must happen in days or even hours. >> do you think the prime minister is risky. >> i think it was evident in the phone call today. it was a good discussion, direct, no question, but a good discussion. >> reporter: the call was arranged in direct response to the israeli strike that killed seven world central kitchen workers, including 33-year-old jacob flickinger, a duel israeli-american citizen. raf sanchez spoke with his parents. >> we are two people who have suffered because we've lost our only son, but we are only two. there are thousands and thousands. >> reporter: israel says the strike was a grave mistake, and

was not intentional. >> gabe gutierrez reporting there. and moments ago, the israeli military filed a report and said it had fired two top officers following a deadly air strike that killed seven world central kitchen aid workers in gaza. a lengthy statement released last hour, idf announcing the findings of an internal probe writing in part, the investigation found the forces identified a gunman on one of the aid trucks following which they identified an additional gunman. after the vehicles left the warehouse where the aid had been unloaded, one of the commanders mistakenly assumed the gunmen were located inside the accompanying vehicles and that these were hamas terrorists end quote. the world central kitchen responded to that report. in a statement, the group calling the firing of the military officers an important step forward but reiterating earlier demands for the creation of an independent commission to investigate the killings of our

wck colleagues saying the idf cannot be trusted to take care of its own. joining us now, democratic member of the foreign relations committee, senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator, good morning. so let's talk about that call yesterday between president biden and prime minister netanyahu. the first time the two have spoken since the death of those seven aid workers. the white house putting on the table the possibility of conditioning the aid that it gives to israel. do you think that is a good idea. do you think that actually will happen? >> i think it's a necessary idea. i'm glad that the president is putting that on the table, both in a private conversation and through his public readout of the meeting. listen, i agree with president biden. hamas needs to be dislodged from gaza. israel has a right to defend itself. i believe that from the very beginning. the cost is just too high. you are talking about 13,000 children who have died in this

conflict. gaza is on the brink of famine. and our own terrorism experts in the united states are representing that this conflict will have what they call a generational impact on terrorism. that doesn't mean it will be a generational setback for terrorism. what they are saying is that terrorist recruiters are out there having great success, bringing people into the fold using the high level of civilian death as a recruiting tool. so this is a moment where i think the united states need to use all of the leverage it has to try to get israel to change its strategy. it doesn't mean ending the campaign to find and capture or kill the remaining hamas leaders. it means tactics that are much less permissive of civilian death, counter terrorism operations that are more surgical in nature and i would argue an immediate pause on military operations just to make sure we can stem the

humanitarian nightmare that is spreading throughout gaza. >> senator, the israeli government has taken a few steps in the hours after the prime minister's call with president biden as more aid is getting in. entry points have been opened up. we now see this report as the idf strike that killed those aid workers. in your estimation, what more can they do, particularly as we look ahead to the possible rafah campaign. is there a scenario where the united states congress, which is debating the supplemental about foreign aid and most of the focus has been on ukraine. could they pull back because they will not want to supply israel with aid in the wake of all that's happening? >> i do not believe that opening up a new crossing into gaza is enough. i was at americares, a connecticut based emergency relief organization. they send medicines into gaza, they have suspended operations, they and their partners on the

ground, not because of a lack of crossings into gaza but because they simply believe that the danger to aid workers now is too high. we have seen over 200 aid workers killed inside gaza. so without a pause in military operations, i just don't think you are going to be able to save lives. i think right now there needs to be a temporary halt so that we can get food and medicine, emergency supplies spread throughout gaza in a way to save lives. as for what congress is going to do, listen, i don't know. but there was a group of us, about 20, that introduced an amendment in the senate to the emergency supplemental bill that included israel aid that would have conditioned funding upon compliance with u.s. humanitarian law and international laws of war. i think there will likely be more, not less interest in that kind of amendment in the house of representatives after this

latest incident with the aid workers. >> senator, as you know, israel's reputation of course around the region has suffered enormously. america's reputation is suffering as well. the argument the white house uses for not tying conditions to u.s. weapons to israel is that it gives them a seat at the table when decisions are being made. is there much evidence that having that seat at the table, having that leverage is actually changed the dynamics on the ground. as you say so many children and people have been killed and terrorists are going to have a bonanza of recruiting in the region. isn't it time for america to tie conditions to u.s. aid to israel? >> i think there's no doubt that president biden has had an impact. i think there's more aid getting in to gaza today because of the pressure that president biden has applied. but i just don't think there's enough progress. and i think it is a moment when we have to recognize that this quiet but firm pressure the

administration has been applying is not doing enough to advance our security interests, and, again, if the result of this conflict is that non-state terrorist actors grow in their capacity to recruit human beings and launch attacks against israel and the united states, then this campaign has not worked, and what is so frustrate ing to many of us is israel is reluctant to learn lessons that america experiences in iraq and afghanistan, we thought through military power alone, we could eliminate a terrorist through the. we were too cavalier, and it allowed terrorist organizations to grow. it may be stronger, not weaker because of the damage being done to both israel's reputation and america's reputation. doesn't mean they shouldn't stop going after hamas, but 13,000

kids dead is just too high a price to pay. >> and it is so frustrating, and it's also frustrating that you had people like david ignatius and other foreign policy experts the day after the attacks warning israel not to repeat the same mistakes that we repeated after 9/11, not to repeat the same mistakes that they have repeated through the years, and unfortunately they've done just that. democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you so much. on a much lighter note, senator, if you could ask the guys at uconn to take it easy on alabama saturday night, greatly appreciate it. >> we just want to game, you know, we know we're going to win, but for the country we're going to try to keep it within, you know, about 25 points. >> hopefully the players on uconn are that over confident as

well. thank you, senator, greatly appreciate it. let's bring staff writer of the new yorker, susan glasser, cohost of "the political scene" podcast, and author of the beinhart notebook. peter, listening to some of the criticisms, i won't call it conservatives, i'll call it the netanyahu right in america, listening to some of the whining and the concerns, you would think joe biden is the first united states president to ever talk about attaching conditions on military support for israel. this has happened time and time again, has it not? >> absolutely. eisenhower did it, ford did it, carter did it, reagan did it, bush i did it, they threatened

to halt military aid when israel was doing things they disagreed with. more often than not, it worked. more often than not, israel went along with what united states wanted. the problem is really for decades now, the united states, american presidents have been asking benjamin netanyahu to change his policies, and benjamin netanyahu doesn't respond very effectively when you just ask him nicely. it's actually in his political interests to have a fight with america, if america is going to fold. which is part of the reason he didn't listen to joe biden when biden was asking him to allow more aid into gaza, but we notice now that the minute that biden put the prospect of conditioning u.s. military on the table, we've seen a tangible result. >> and susan glasser, just a note, not to -- not to throw, you know, not to get in the

middle of the netanyahu's right argument about how horrible joe biden is because of possibility of conditions, donald trump continues to be given the opportunity to write israel a rhetorical blank check, and he keeps refusing to do that. in fact, again yesterday in an interview, he refused to give israel a blank check and said, they need to stop it. they need to finish this. and that this has been, as he said, a pr disaster. >> yeah, no, i was really struck by those comments, and he's repeated this several times in recent days. and i think the reason is donald trump is sitting there watching television. he's a man, as we know, who's obsessed with the optics. he thinks the optics are terrible. he's in particular fixated on images of buildings being collapsed and presumably civilians trapped inside of

them. you know, trump is so transactional. i think that's something that can get missed when you look at his foreign policy record. obviously during his presidency, he essentially outsourced american policy to netanyahu. people don't realize, he broke with netanyahu at the end of his presidency, a classic trump reason why he was mad at him personally. he was furious when netanyahu called up and congratulated joe biden on defeating donald trump in november of 2020. he also was mad at netanyahu for coming to the white house, and in trump's view up staging him, which tells you everything about what foreign policy was and what it might be under another trump presidency, completely personalized by donald trump and having very little to do with how to achieve outcomes that are best for american national security. >> and, susan, your latest piece for the new yorker is titled donald trump's amnesia advantage. susan writes in part, the

american presidency is the ultimate easy target, whether high gas prices due to the russian invasion of ukraine or post pandemic inflation at the grocery store, biden ignored the outrage, while the mitigating steps have not dedowned to his credit. the incumbency bind is a problem for biden so too is the political amnesia powering the absurd arguments from trump and his enablers, how he would better handle everything from israel to ukraine to the border, forgetting trump's own memory lapses and those at the broader electorate is one of the former president's political super powers. you write about this, too, january 6th, the rewriting of history around that, what he did around the 2020 election. donald trump still sort of like he did in 2016 wants to be the white knight riding in to save a country in decline, forget the fact that he was in the middle of it for four years adding to

it. >> i'm blown away. when you look at some of these numbers, it is just extraordinary. it's as if a large part of the country has lost its collective mind, willie. you see donald trump going up in polls on every sort of criteria, for example, leadership qualities. you know, is he capable of managing the country well in a crisis. it's literally like did all of america just sleep through 2020. did they forget this? and what i'm struck by is that it's across the board. we're talking about israel right now, and increasingly, i hear as i'm sure you do from many people, especially many young people who are not even fans of donald trump, well, what really is the difference between the two parties. i mean, what is the difference between joe biden and donald trump, and i think how is it even possible that this is the conversation we're having in 2024. it's a remarkable thing. but i think you have to look at memory itself as on the ballot

in our elections this fall. >> katty, it is extraordinary, this phenomenon of trump amnesia. it's been written about, studies about it, and certainly day-to-day conversations, people like, oh, it wasn't that bad, or this happened. and people don't remember. so my question to you is what challenge does this pose to us as journalists, you know, in terms of reminding people, providing necessary context, fact checking, because when you do so, you're often accused by the other side, in this case, republicans, conservatives, in a bad faithed way of being biassed. you're just trying to sway people's opinions. what's the right approach here? >> i wish i had the answer. i mean, i really do because i think donald trump has always been one of the most tricky politicians, if we call him that, figures to cover. right from 2015 when he came down the escalator and got a

huge amount of attention, a huge amount of time, he was new, he was news worthy, right. he was a different kind of politician, someone running for the presidency who had never been elected before, who said extraordinary things that were right outside the political mainstream. after he left office, part of the reason for amnesia, we had gone through four years of government by chaos. for all of us journalists who covered it every day, it was sort of exhausting. for the country as well, poll after poll showed us that people were exhausted by the trump presidency, even people who were big supporters of donald trump found it very tiring and found the level of exhaustion high. perhaps that's why people wanted to forget. we didn't want to go back to thinking about all of that tiredness and the stress of covering that time. i think today, look, msnbc and nbc have gone through this version of questioning with the hiring and then the firing of ronna mcdaniel, how do we cover, how do we give voice to the

dissatisfaction that people who support donald trump feel in a legitimate respectful way while also calling out lies around something like an election that was not stolen and people who went to prison after january 6th because they committed a crime. so i think we just have to be clear in our own mind and in every case, treat every single incident on its own merits, and is this truth, is this not truth in a world of disinformation that becomes much harder, while not dismissing millions of people's grievances who have legitimate grievances and things they are unhappy about who may vote for donald trump. >> peter, let's bring you in on this, what do you make of trump's alleged super power to rewrite history, to say the same lie over and over and over again, and why are people so prone to believe him? >> when i look at the election, it's not so much trump's strength that i see. it's biden's weakness.

i don't think donald trump has convinced a lot of people who didn't vote for him to vote again, but he has a very passionate core of people who will turn out. and the danger is that joe biden doesn't have that. that young people who are the democratic party's base are not passionate to turn out. they weren't passionate before the gaza war, and now they're more disillusioned. if you're a democratic president and you can't hold a rally on a college campus without it being disrupted, that's a warning sign. there are enough americans to defeat donald trump who remember what a disaster he was, and recognize what a threat he would be to american democracy. but you still need passion on the other side. and you need to resolve this fundamental question, which there are a lot of young americans in particular who care about what's happening in gaza, and they need to be shown by the biden administration that there is a difference between biden and trump on this issue, which they're seeing in the news every day.

all right. susan glasser, last word to you. >> well, i think peter is absolutely right about the other side of this equation, which is president biden, and to me, he's also really in something of an incumbency trap as well. remember, this is not joe biden's policy of support toward israel. this has been american policy of support for israel for decades in a bipartisan fashion. you know, he's been in a bind. he's been reluctant to publicly press netanyahu. he's getting the political message. what i'm really struck by is senator murphy's comments here, what does winning at this point even look like for israel. obviously that has domestic implications here in the united states. biden did not want this war to be going on six months after the horrific attack on october 7th. it could be going on for many months more. i don't see any kind of an exit strategy right now for israel, and that, of course, is bad news

politically back here at home for joe biden. >> susan glasser, thank you so much, peter, thank you as well. greatly appreciate it. and, willie, it's that time again. do you want me to read the script, alex, because i can't really read scripts well. i was going to ask willie about this weekend. >> that's why your name was in prompter. >> is that why my name is in the prompter. still ahead on "morning joe," maryland governor wes moore is our guest. so wes moore is our guest coming up, obviously talking about the tragedy in baltimore, and the president's going to be heading there today following last week's bridge collapse. but, willie, here we go, now we're going to talk about the "today" show. last week's was just incredible. i just can't say enough about carol burnett, your interview with her was wonderful. >> the best.

>> she was remarkable, you know, 50 years ago. she is remarkable still, so how do you top that? >> can i say one thing about carol burnett that didn't make it into the interview, carol burnett just in the last couple of years has gotten the wordel in one seven times. she's very humble, she says that doesn't take skill. getting it in two is the real skill. those are just guesses, but i thought that was an interesting nugget, brilliant, sharp as a razor, incredible. coming up, joe, on sunday, the last episode ever of "curb your enthusiasm," after 12 seasons, 24 years, curb is saying good-bye and our good buddy, larry david, was nice enough to give us on "sunday today" the exit interview. on the morning of the last episode, larry david is with me. we were out yesterday, actually, did the interview, walked around

his old neighborhood in hell's kitchen where he lived in the '70s. we came around the corner, that diner, that's where jerry and i sat in a booth and came up with seinfeld to which i thought there should be a historic marker put up there. a great conversation with larry david about "curb your enthusiasm" about his life, his career, a hilarious beloved guy. we're going to miss the show so much, and maybe a little look at what's coming up on the finale on sunday. larry david coming up this weekend on "sunday today" over on nbc, and we'll be right back on "morning joe." ack on "morning joe.

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this sunday marks six months since the hamas terrorist attack in israel. more than 200 people were taken hostage on october 7th. it's believed the terrorist

organization still is holding about 130 of those hostages. and back with us on the show this morning are rachel goldberg and john poland, their israeli american son was abducted by hamas while attending the supernova music festival. he celebrated his 23rd birthday just days before that concert. rachel and john, we appreciate you coming on with us. we admire your relentless advocacy on this issue for your son. rachel, i'll begin with you, have you heard anything that encourages you, glimmers of hope recently at any point in this process that makes you believe you will get hersch back home? >> hope is mandatory, and we are optimistic and praying and hopeful every single second of every single day, but you are catching us on a day where we are feeling profound trauma and shock because yesterday nothing was mentioned about hostages

that we know of in that conversation between president biden and bibi netanyahu. and it has opened a deep wound since october 7th so we are in a horrible place right now. >> john, let's get you to expand upon that a little further. your anger is visceral as to what happened yesterday with this phone call between the two men. just explain to us why that is, and what would you have liked to have heard? >> so let me remind everybody that we are on day 182. 134 hostages are still being held, and i want to remind the viewers that these hostages, it would be simple and easy to make this a gaza, israel, palestinian, jewish issue, but these 134 hostages comprise people from 25 countries, five religions, they span in age from

14 months to 86 years old. this is a global humanitarian issue that seems to be getting brushed under the rug as time passes. i don't think there should be a single conversation happening around the gaza-israel issue that doesn't start with take the hostages out. as soon as hostages come out, it has an ability to diffuse tension in the region. all the complexity going on right now in the middle east, you know what is the one thing that is closest to being able to be executed that would have an effect of some calm is releasing these 134 hostages. so when there are conversations that talk about condemning israel for this and that and calling for more aid, we feel terrible that there were seven aid workers killed, that was a horrendous, tragic mistake, and we feel horrible about that, but what about the 134 hostages. what about the eight americans still being held. how are there conversations starting that don't start with release the hostages and then do

x, y and z. >> we noted in our discussion earlier that the cease fire and hostages seem to be delinked a little bit for the first time in some of the u.s. rhetoric. your emotions here are extremely understandable. who do you blame for this? is this because of the prime minister netanyahu, is this president biden? who is it? >> listen, i think everyone, all of our leaders have blame to share. i think us as parents have blame to share that we have not succeeded in saving our son. i think the human race, the human species has failed in not freeing these 134 human beings and not stopping all of this suffering. there are also hundreds of thousands of innocent gazans who are suffering, but yesterday i can't explain what that felt like to know, first of all, as john said, we were horrified as everyone else was with the

tragic mistake of killing of these seven really unbelievably generous angel aid workers. but to say, okay, now you have to have a cease fire because of these seven and not mention eight u.s. citizens who have been held for six months. we have a video of our son's arm being blown off and him being loaded on to a truck, bleeding, with another boy who we know died in the truck. no mention. i mean, at a certain point, it's 182 days. i mean, i don't know how i can sort of try to digest and be patient and be understanding with the process. that was that for us, and we were with all the families yesterday, all the u.s. families. we were together when that readout came. it was the most vicious, violent slap from our own government. we couldn't believe it. we really couldn't believe it. >> katty kay has the next question for you here.

>> john, i'm so sorry, and yesterday must have been awful for both of you and for the families. we know that bill burns is traveling to egypt on sunday, he's going to have more negotiations with the qataris and with the egyptians, do you hear anything, are you going to have any meetings with the white house or the administration over the next few days around whether the hostages will be part of those new round of conversations that the cia director is having? >> so you are catching us in new york today. we will be in washington next week with a range of meetings with congress and with the administration. between now and next week, there's a long time, a lot can happen. what we know after being in this for 182 days and getting our crash course in diplomacy is there's often what's said publicly and then there's what's going on behind the scenes. i don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but my sincere hope as people who are optimistic by nature is that

while there is this public spat between the united states and israel that privately the united states is similarly exerting leverage on other parties at the table, getting them to lean in and that meetings happening in cairo lead to something fruitful. if that is not happening, the behind the scenes pressure on other parties, then we've got a really big problem, and day 182 is on the path to being 582 days because it just does not feel like we are getting closer. and that's really disheartening. >> rachel, we run the risk sometimes when we talk about this of numbers, but these are people. this is your son. can you tell us and our audience a little bit more about hersh. you have been so eloquent talking about what kind of young man he is. we want to put pictures up of him, and hear more about hersh this morning. >> thank you for giving me that opportunity. as every parent knows our favorite topic is always our children.

hersh is a laid back, happy go lucky, funny with a dry, dark sense of humor that is sarcastic, but never goes over to being mean, which is challenging. he's wild about soccer, he loves music festivals, he absolutely is obsessed with geography and world travel and i often say that he's not perfect. i'm not one of those moms that says, you know, my son is perfect. he is my only son, but i'm able to say that he is the perfect son for me. and that i feel very blessed and lucky to be his mother. >> that's beautiful. jon, how about for you? >> what i say about hersh is in 182 days of thinking about him nonstop, what has become clear to me is he is so respectful. he's not a perfect angel. he's got a mischievous side, he causes some trouble, but i have never once literally been upset with him in 23 years. he just respects people, us, his

teachers, his friends, and doesn't cross the line, and i've never raised my voice, never been tempted to, and that says something about his character. >> absolutely. well, he needs to come home to his parents as to all the other hostages, we continue to hope and pray that day is coming soon. rachel goldberg, jon polin, we appreciate you stopping through to speak with us this morning. >> thank you. coming up next, we'll talk to maryland governor wes moore about recovery efforts in baltimore ahead of president biden's visit today after the bridge collapse last week. also ahead, we'll bring you the march jobs report to get insight on those numbers from cnbc's andrew ross sorkin when "morning joe" comes right back. n "morning joe" comes right back before you decide... with the freestyle libre 3 system... know your glucose and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. now the world's smallest and thinnest sensor... sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone.

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beautiful live picture at the white house, it's 7:41 on a friday morning. president biden will travel to baltimore today to receive an

operational update on the francis scott key bridge collapse, and to meet with the families of the victims. since that accident last tuesday, crews have begun to clear the wreckage, and the federal government has provided $60 million in relief to maryland. president biden has been pushing for congress to fully foot the bill to rebuild the bridge as the port of baltimore, of course, is a major hub for the american economy. joining us now from baltimore, maryland's democratic governor, wes moore. governor moore, it's great to have you back with us this morning. >> great to be here. >> what does it look like now about ten days on since that tragic accident on the bridge when the fully loaded cargo ship hit it, it collapsed in those overnight hours. how is the recovery, how is the clean up going? >> i think the state is still mourning. we have four souls that are unaccounted for, and we are all committed to making sure we can bring a sense of closure and comfort to these families who are living a nightmare, and we

also know that we have seen a maritime disaster that's unprecedented, a ship that is literally the size of the eiffel tower and the weight of the washington monument that's now sitting in the middle of the river and a hundred tons of wreckage sitting in the water. we also know we have seen a measure of resilience and a measure of collective resolve that has been inspiring by the people of this state, and so i think we continue to see, when we say maryland tough and baltimore strong, we have folks every single day who are showing exactly what that means and what it looks like. >> governor, good morning, good to see you. we expect to hear from president biden later today. he'll call for full federal funding of this repair work. please weigh in and give us your thoughts on that. but secondarily, give us a timetable, if you will, and not for the rebuilding of the bridge which i know is going to be quite lengthy, but just clearing

the wreckage there of the boat and the debris. when can that be removed so the port can open again? >> well, so we have been grateful that the biden administration has been with us every step of the way. i think i got my first phone call from the white house at 3:00 in the morning the morning of the tragedy, and it has been consistent throughout where they have continued to walk this path with us. and the thing that we know is that we are going to need it because this is not just something that's impacting baltimore. it's not just something that's impacting the state of maryland. the port of baltimore is responsible for $70 billion annually. we are looking at a port that is the largest port for agricultural equipment, the largest port for new cars, the largest port for heavy trucks. the largest ports for spices and sugars, so this is not just impacting marylanders. this is impacting the farmer in kentucky. it's impacting the auto dealer in ohio. it's impacting the restaurant owner in tennessee. it's impacting the entire country and our economic growth, and the complexity of this

operation is significant. we have divers who are going down there. we have been running a 24/7 operation, and we have divers who are going down and cannot see any further than a foot or two in front of them because of the amount of wreckage that is still very much in the water. we know this is not just a rallying cry for the state of maryland. this is a rallying cry for the country. that level of support is going to be important. we know the u.s. army corps of engineers have indicated we are hoping to be able to continue opening up channels. i was amazed in the first week we were able to open up two channels for smaller vessels in boats and tugs that can enter into the area, starting to get our commercial activity back going again. while we know it's going to be a long journey and the army corps of engineers have indicated they are hoping we can have channels of 45 foot depth open within the month, we know it's going to take everything, everything, all hands on deck in order to accomplish that.

we know we're prepared to give just exactly that. >> governor, thousands of marylanders, of course, cross that bridge every day, and their jobs depend on crossing that bridge in many cases. give us a sense of what has happened to their lives, their daily routines since the bridge went down? >> you're absolutely right, katty. over 36,000 people would cross that bridge every single day. and so our maryland department of transportation has been working around the clock to create alternative routes, being able to utilize areas like 95 to get people where they live to where they work, where they worship, where they go to school. while we have been able to create these alternative lanes and alternative avenues of traffic, we know that we're also asking patience for the people of this state. and it does bring up a much larger point about critical infrastructure. the highest priority that i have as a chief executive is to make sure that our people are safe and to make sure we're moving in

a coordinated fashion to ensure safety for all of our people. that includes critical infrastructure. i think this is just a continued evolution that we have got to do to make sure we have multiple pathways, modal assets for people to go from where they live to where they work. that's also going to help to get an economic engine going, and make sure that economic growth can be participatory and not exclusionary. >> we hope they can get back up and running in the meantime. our thoughts are with the six families mourning the loss of loved ones. maryland governor wes moore, we appreciate your time. thanks for being here this morning. >> god bless you guys, and thank you. >> thanks, governor. still ahead, we are hours away from tip-off of the women's final four, and we will preview tonight's matchups, including the show down featuring caitlin clark and top seeded iowa, and page becker and perennial power house uconn and not to mention, undefeated south carolina

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cleveland. >> reporter: this morning, march madness mania is taking over cleveland with the highly anticipated women's final four now just hours away. tonight we'll see iowa versus uconn featuring the biggest star

in all of college hoops, hawkeyes guard, caitlin clark. >> this is business, you know, we're here to win a basketball game and hopefully win two. >> reporter: with her long range, logo threes, championship weekend just feels different. >> it's so cool to see these incredible female athletes be so visible. >> and drains it. my goodness. >> reporter: when clark's hawkeyes played rival lsu monday, espn says more than 12 million people tuned in to watch. the largest audience ever for a women's college hoops game. >> what has caitlin taught you that will help you beyond when you are on the basketball court? >> never give up. >> you can do anything if you put it to your limits. >> reporter: clark won't be the game's only shining star. >> through the contact, just too talented. >> reporter: she'll take on uconn star paige bueckers. >> it'll be a great matchup, but i'm excited. it's great for the game. >> reporter: the other women's tip-off also not to be missed as

nc state takes on an undefeated south carolina. >> i'm so happy we can help them meet this moment. >> reporter: and some fans are seeing double. uconn and nc state both have their women's and men's squads playing in the final four this weekend. >> basketball is just something that always brings people together. that's why we love it. >> reporter: purdue, final four first timers and alabama round out the men's side as we get ready for a march madness finale fans won't soon forget. >> i hope they remember how we made them feel, how we brought joy their lives, how we gave them family something to scream about on the weekends. >> ahead of the final four tonight, we can just not overstate how exciting this basketball season has been because of caitlin clark for sure, but tonight she plays against uconn, a program that has been there so many times. i think 23 times, the final four under geno auriemma, and paige bueckers is somehow underrated right now because caitlin

clark's star has shined so bright. >> and no offense to joe scarborough's alabama crimson tide, but the attention's on the women's final four. it far upstages the men's, and it will be a classic. uconn, arguably the most storied program in women's basketball history of college sports and facing the biggest star of the sports probably ever seen in caitlin clark or right up there. a terrific story, nc state, facing an undefeated south carolina squad. as a sports fan, you get all you could want in these games. >> 36-0, south carolina under dawn staley who was just named the coach of the year. caitlin clark of course, named the player of the year. should be fun for the guys as well. still ahead on "morning joe," one of donald trump's golf courses as the site for the liv weekend for saudi arabia.

more questions about his connections to saudi arabia. plus, a sigh of relief after no labels announced it will not move forward with a third party bid. we'll announce the significance of that. we'll read from this idf report about the strike on world kitchen aid workers. "morning joe" is coming right back. d workers. "morning joe" is coming right back

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truth social, you've seen the stock on the move in this -- i'll call it remarkable, maybe even crazy way. >> i'll say two words. game stop. >> that's what you think is going on here? >> it's ridiculous. the company has no revenue. >> but do you think it could ever be a bigger business? >> no. >> do you think if he wins the presidency -- >> no. why? why would it be bigger? look. he's only interesting because he's out there entertaining the folks. i hope if he does get elected, he just plays golf for four

years, but -- >> do you think that all the investors in this are getting scammed? do you think they think this is a transference of welfare from one side to the other? >> i think they're dopes. i mean, who would buy a company that literally has -- i mean, what does it have? $30 of revenue? why would you -- how could you put a value on it? they're buying it for other reasons just like they bought theaters when there was no theater business or they bought gamestop or whatever. it's stupid. it's stupid stuff. >> it was a thousand times revenue, i think. >> what? okay. >> it was 4 million. >> $4 million in revenue. >> that's $4 million in revenue. it's ridiculous. >> why are you even talking about this? it's a scam just like everything he's ever been involved in is some sort of con. >> why are you even talking about this? that is billionaire media executive barry diller slamming trump media and its investors comparing the company to meme

stocks with no real value. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, april 5th. a busy moment including joe biden teaming up with bernie sanders. we'll show you that campaign pitch. plus, a new development this morning. the race for the white house is looking less likely there will be a serious third party candidate this year. speaking of third party candidates, robert f. kennedy jr.'s campaign disowns its own fund-raising email hours after sending it out. we'll explain what they sent out and why they're doing that. with us this morning, the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. back to truth social, the word we're looking for is dismissive with barry diller, wondering why we're even discussing a company

that had 4, count them, $4 million in revenue last year. they lost $58 million, and yet the fan boys of donald trump propping the stock briefly before it came crashing down. >> yeah. it'll keep crashing down even more. it's a complete scam, willie. we do have a lot of news to get to today, but first, i just -- there are -- there are times -- there are moments in time is that really mark the passing of a generation if you are a sports fan. of course, 1980 in lake placid, 2004, when the red sox dreamed the impossible dream -- it was unbelievable. i guess you could talk about jim valvano's extraordinary win, the wolf pack's win, and then last night, at citifield, take a look at this. >> 3-2, coming to taylor.

it's hooked. base hit down the left field line. here comes beaty, and the mets have their first win of the season. tyrone taylor with a game-winning hit. >> wow. wow. >> the new york mets. >> wow. >> you know, i wanted to hear -- give me one moment in time, and it would have been great if the 13 people at citi field could have held hands, come together and held hands. it looked like -- it looked like atlanta fulton county stadium when i was a young kid going to see the braves play and i would be sitting behind home plate and jeff brose would hit, and then you thought you had to run to right field to get the ball and pretty soon you figured out, you could walk. nobody else was there. you pick up the ball.

look. joe scarborough is down there, a little 6-year-old joey. they knew all of our names, but the mets won a game, and plet say -- i will say, i was very excited about -- it was great to see how excited they were, right? the fans are down on them and everything, but, you know, these guys, they know it's early in the year, and they could come back and, you know, a good season. they can only lose 96, 97 games this year. >> you know, gary cohen, the great play by play announcer for the mets, he gave us a nice snapshot of the early days. they were down 1-0 in the eighth inning and had lost the first game of the double-header, winless for the season. here's the way gary cohen saw

it. >> nobody in the ballpark, 0-5, hitless through seven. feels like rock bottom. >> rock bottom, and it's april 3 rd or whatever it was yesterday. april 4. th. that's tough. >> they'd gone 13 innings without a hit, but my gosh. we talk about this all the time. it's april. it's april, right? there is such a long way to go in baseball. that's why, you know, available is live. you can be 0-6. you can be 2-14 and get your act together and win the world series. look at the atlanta braves, a team that has just been touring the second half of the season the past couple of years. there's hope for all of us which of course, lemire and i both know the reverse of this is the

sox started 5-2, and they look like winners and by the way, go liverpool. they look like real winners, but a long way to go. >> you left out the yankees. they're 6-1. >> we'll get to the yankees in a second. let me respond to this first. >> you're right about the sox who have been encouraging and a pleasant surprise on their west coast trip. 5-2. they go to the angels tonight. haven't played a game at fenway yet. i will say though the net mets before that happened, he sent me carlos mendoza and a head of let lettuce making the liz truss comparison, but just a short time later, the mets get a win. gary cohen's pathetic low turns into a scene of celebration. maybe they turn things around. >> maybe they turn things around, and of course, this is exactly why we have katty kay here to talk about liz truss and

the head of cabbage and the new york mets, and also, of course, katty, a house divided, split down the middle between arsenal and city as we go really deep this morning with mika off. good luck navigaing that. maybe liverpool can take care of it in the premier league by themselves. >> that's right. i know city is struggling which is rare for city. it's good. it's a moment for humility for my husband. he hasn't known one for a long time since city came into the money. >> exactly. >> i think you might be the only happy one. i won't have a happy son or husband in my household and you'll be the one to blame, joe. i'll get back to you on that. >> we shall see. >> we'll get done with baseball and i'll finish whatever it is i was doing and just come to me in my ear and i'll get back to you. >> we're not going to talk -- >> 20 minutes or so? do i have time to get a coffee? >> give me about 30 seconds because i'll get a phone call

from mika if i don't move this along. we're not going to talk about the yankees because they're going to win 129 games this year and if you don't, you're abject failures. we're going to finish this up with gene and say, gene, what about the nationals, man? america's team. >> well, we're not quite having a mets-like beginning of the season. i think we're, like, 2-3 or 2-4 or something like that. we have gotten wins. we're hoping that we're climbing out of the rebuilding phase. >> yeah. >> the pitcher we hope is going to become our ace and he's a great young pitcher, josiah gray. he has had a couple of rocky outings. >> yeah. >> but he'll settle down. i think he'll get into his rhythm, and so i think we'll have a decent season. i'm not looking for us to finish

at the top of the table, but i think -- i think we'll -- i think we'll be ahead of the nets, frankly. >> well, that's -- boy. that's not saying a lot. >> you know. set the bar where it belongs. 6. >> i don't know if you've seen them play, but they have a great stadium, a great place to see baseball. >> it is. it could be a long season. it's very early. six games in. shoutout to the tigers and the pirates. those baseball cities off to big starts. we'll see if they can keep it going. i speak for mika when i say, let's get to the news now. >> let's move along. >> thank you, katty. let's begin with president biden's warning to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the two leaders spoke by phone yesterday for about 30 minutes. it was the first conversation since the israeli air strikes that killed seven food aid workers in gaza. the white house says the president told the prime minister, israel needs to change

its approach to gaza with immediate action, and that future support for the country from the united states depends on them doing so. secretary of state antony blinken who was on that call, gave more detail about the conversation yesterday while at nato meetings in brussels. >> the president emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable. he made clear the need for israel to announce a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers. he made clear that u.s. policy with respect to gaza will be determined by our assessment of israel's immediate action on these steps. he underscored as well that an immediate ceasefire is essential to stabilize and improve the humanitarian situation and protect civilians and empower

his negotiators to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home. >> after the phone call between president biden and prime minister netanyahu, israel committed to opening more aid routes into gaza saying it will use the port for the direct delivery of assistance. it will open a crossing to allow aid to reach the northern part of the territory. israel also will significantly increase the amount of deliveries from jordan into gaza. no timetable spelled out yet, however, according to a white security council spokesperson, the steps announced by israel, quote, must now be fully and rapidly implemented. so joe, another intense phone call, this time between president biden and prime minister netanyahu, all of course, coming on the heels of that awful tragedy where seven aid workers were killed. we had one of the ministers, the foreign mayor of jerusalem on our show yesterday. didn't seem terribly sympathetic to what had happened. he said it was a, quote,

mistake, but wanted to focus on other things and continue the war there, but it's clear now from the white house there will be conditions perhaps going forward on aid from the united states to israel. >> right, and he wanted to talk about the hostages, and of course, that's great. wanted to ignore the fact that the gazan people are facing famine, extraordinary hardship,and wanted to talk about hamas as do we. we all agree that hamas -- and we've always believed hamas were a group of terrorist thugs, but that separates us from benjamin netanyahu who, again, it can't be said enough. benjamin netanyahu saw hamas as a political ally for years. benjamin netanyahu was the -- was responsible for the funding of that terrorist organization

for years. benjamin netanyahu told qatar to give tens of millions of more dollars to hamas weeks before the attack -- the worst attack on jews since the holocaust. so for those, i've heard it for the past -- read it for the past 16, 18 hours since this phone call. for those saying, oh, but what about hamas? how could joe biden not talk about hamas? why doesn't joe biden see hamas as the real enemy here? he does, but that's what separates richard haass, joe biden, from benjamin netanyahu. joe biden never saw hamas as an ally. benjamin netanyahu did, and those who are attacking joe biden for stepping in and actually trying to help israel help itself, they claim to be

right-wing supporters of israel. in fact, they're just like a parent that wants to shove candy down a diabetic child's throat. what they are doing, what they are suggesting hurts israel in the short run and in the long run, and they knew it, and they knew it, and i would love to see all the editorials talking about how much damage there is doing to the standing of israel in america, in the west, and across the world because unlike what the "wall street journal" editorial page says this morning, this is not coming from left-wing anti-israel factions. this is coming from, in my case, a conservative pro-israeli faction. in the president's case, a very pro-israeli democrat.

there are those of us who actually want israel to be protected from the damage that benjamin netanyahu is inflicting on the gazan people and on the israeli people, and on the families of the hostages and on israel's long-term standing health and strength in the world community. >> this whole phrase, pro-israel actually makes it almost impossible to have a serious conversation. the idea that if you are critical of israeli government policy, the most right-wing government in israel's history, the government that as you said for years, green lighted support to hamas to support and conquer the palestinian movement, the government that was asleep at the switch on the october 7th, if somehow you criticize them, then that makes you anti-israel, and what? if you give them blanket support, that makes you pro-israel, even as you say a lot of what they're doing is

harmful to the relationship between israel and its most important backer, the united states. so certain terms like, you know, pro-israel and the rest, let's put those to the side. i think the real test now going forward, joe, after the focus is what did the israelis take from this? they've opened the spigots on food aid. why it took them so long, we can put that conversation to the side right now. >> i don't want to put that conversation to the side. >> okay. >> it is increasingly looking like benjamin netanyahu had a plan to force famine on the palestinian people, on the gazan people to amp up the pressure on hamas. of course, it seems to me the hostages aren't even secondary in his mind because of course, and people say, they could release the hostages. they're terrorists. they're not going to release the hostages unless the conditions are right, which the conditions

most likely are a ceasefire and the allowing of the worst terrorists to escape. out of gaza with their lives. but this whole idea that if we starve the gazan people that's going to somehow help israel in the long run, that's going to help the hostages, no. it's hurting the hostages. it's hurting israel, and you're starving women and children in gaza, and as katty said yesterday, they're now having to grind up dog food and cat food and eat that and drink salt water. it's savage conditions, and it's calculated and let me say, it's calculated just like stalin's starvation of ukrainians was calculated. this is calculated by benjamin netanyahu, and somebody needs to

ask me why the hell the united states shouldn't intervene with a guy that has a 20% approval rating and knows that when the world is over, he could be going to jail. >> what you are seeing from israeli policy, i would argue is truly misguided. there's been -- we'll call it what it is. it's a siege on gaza basically. we've learned from the american experience in the middle east. the old argument, you've got to win the hearts and minds, and what's so striking to me about israeli policy is there's been nothing win over the people. you see the siege on the american supplies up. see the fact that maybe millions have been killed, not to mention the 200 aid workers. you see the land exappropriation continuing, and you see no introduction of any ideas politically that would offer a political alternative to the violence of hamas. how is this supposed to end well? does israel seriously think it can somehow militarily alone

destroy hamas and that's going to do it? what's striking is both what israel is doing, joe, and how it's doing it, but also what it's not doing. this is a policy that i would say is doomed to fail. >> stay with us. we want to get your reaction to the newly released report about those aid workers with the world central kitchen. that group is responding as well. those details next on "morning joe." well osthe details next on "morning joe. the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes

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joe, we're just getting some breaking news into us as we discuss this which is the idf releasing its report on what exactly happened when seven people were killed working with world central kitchen in that convoy a few days ago. i'm reading pieces of it. it's a lengthy report. the investigation's findings indicate the incident should not have occurred. those who approved the strike

were convinced they were targeting armed hamas operatives and not world central kitchen employees. the strike on the aid vehicles is a grave mistake stemming from a serious failure due to a mistake in identification, errors in decision-making, and an attack contrary to the standard operating procedures. a couple of the commanders have been dismissed from their positions. several others have been formally reprimanded. in this report, joe, idf taking full responsibility saying it was a grave mistake. the full report is available now. it was just posted. people can read through it, draw their own conclusions, but they say they thought there were hamas terrorists inside the warehouse. they thought they had gotten into those trucks and were moving through gaza. obviously tragically and horrifically mistaken about that as this report lays out. they promised a report. it is out. it's posted now. the idf calling it a grave mistake and again, a couple of commanders have been dismissed from their positions and a few

others have been formally reprimanded by the military there. >> we will be, of course, awaiting the response from chef jose andres, and, you know, richard, tragic mistakes happen in war. the united states has made tragic mistakes in every war. "the wall street journal" tries to put this down to a one-off, suggests that joe biden was using this one incident -- this one tragedy to go after israel. that's ridiculous. that's -- this is the end of a long line of unfortunate decisions made by the netanyahu government that's been damaging. i just -- i just want to talk about -- first of all, i agree with you. the israeli government won't accept hamas as a permanent fixture in gaza.

they shouldn't. hamas can never, ever run gaza again. there are many ways to do that without starving and killing 150,000 more civilians. so i agree with that and i'm sure you do too that hamas can never, ever run gaza again, but the second thing is you talked about the most right-wing government ever. unfortunately it's not like the united states, i don't think in this case where we always seem to be going back and forth. we'll go too far right and then americans, the midterms will bring it to the middle, and then they'll go left and go too far left, and we sort of -- we have this balance, this counterbalance in american politics, and we will even after the age of trump is immersively over, but unfortunately in the case of israel, religious extremists have continued to

move into israel and religious extremists continue to have more control over the netanyahu government, and i fear that religious extremists who do not care about considerations that most of the israeli people care about, they will continue. this small minority will continue to control the netanyahu government and unfortunately, i'm afraid governments in the future of this continues. what do you think? >> two things, joe. i agree with you 100% that hamas should not have a role in the future in gaza politically. >> ever. >> but you can't beat something with nothing. if you want to basically sideline hamas, pressure them. that's only half of it. you've got to show there's a better path that if palestinians are willing to rule out violence, they can realize some of their political ambitions. that is 100% missing from the

policy of this israeli government. second of all, you raise a a go point. 13% to 14% of israel is now ultra orthodox. that is the fastest growing minority in israel, and if one looks also, you know, the russian immigration, the demography of israel is changing. there's no longer a left in israel to speak of. it's not clear to me the future of israeli governments down the road are going to necessarily have a meaningfully more forthcoming policy towards palestinians. >> i don't want to interrupt you, but i don't want people to misunderstand this. this isn't about right/left. this is about religious extremists versus secular jew, and when i say secular, i'm talking about governments like the united states government and other governments being driven by more secular considerations instead of theocracy in iran.

you know, israel use -- israel has always been one of the countries in the region, the only country in the region not run by theocracy or by monarchs. so this is -- again, this is not right versus left. this is secular versus religious extremist. >> you're also have been effusion of religious nationalism, and that's where we're seeing the netanyahu government. it has galvanized it. it was there before october 7th. it's now more serious. it's worse, and i think it raises real questions. we began this conversation. we're always talking about the growing alienation between a younger generation of americans in israel. one of the things that worries me is if the kind of forces in israel we're just discussing here become dominant over time. i actually think that will increase the breach between the united states and israel. it's one of the many things that worries me looking down the

road. coming up, a new look at the deep divisions in our society including a growing gap between men and women, especially when it comes to education. also a gap with young voters. those details next on "morning joe." g voters those details next on "morning joe.

trump hosted a star-studded fund-raiser for kari lake, and it was headlined by none other than roseanne barr. >> email or whatever.

it's nothing but devil-worshipping, baby-lovers people. >> "the conners," on abc. >> she's doing great. >> she's not doing well. this is a story that i think is so important, and it's been flying under the radar, i think for a lot of politicians, pollsters. i remember having a conversation a few weeks ago with a pollster who couldn't figure out why there was a growing divide between young men and young women politically, with men breaking -- young men breaking far more to the right than young women. well, according to a recent analysis by the economists, in rich countries, young women are becoming sharply more liberal

while their male peers are not. the divide is evident here in the united states as well. the latest "wall street journal" poll finds that president biden draws only 37% in men in the seven swing states on the ballot that include only him and trump. those are far weaker showings than the 46% of men that biden won in the 2020 election. in 2020, biden won 46% of men and 29% of women. that gap's now at 13 points through mostly to his deteriorating support among men. you know, and willie, this is something that -- i remember in 2017/2018, talking to the -- to a friend who was the head of a school at one of the most elite prep schools in america, and saying from just what i was picking up from these campuses, these elite campuses, whether it was prep schools or colleges, i

said to him, listen. you have to understand something. if you keep pushing young boys, young men into the corner, telling them, you know, that they're toxic or just suggesting they're guilty because they're men, you shove them into that corner, i promise you they're going to come out trumpers. this is -- this is -- whatever you think you're doing, whatever wrongs you think you are righting, you're actually doing just the opposite, and you are going to strengthen donald trump, and you're going to strengthen people like donald trump with these actions. well, he smiled. we remained friends and of course, he and everybody else did absolutely nothing and it's not just in elite prep schools, willie, and elite colleges although that's happening there. not as much i think as it was a few years ago, but you've seen it just like so many other new york city parents have.

>> yeah. i mean, if you tell young boys and young men that they're toxic, that they're in some way inherently bad, at some point, they begin to resent that and look for a place that's not telling them that. in fact, it's saying the opposite. so there is -- it's such a complicated and fascinating issue and i'm so glad we're doing this segment because there is something about recapturing some old version of masculinity that donald trump and podcasters and a certain culture in this country that's really putting its finger on and trying to convince men and young men that they can help bring us back to that place, but there's the other side of it which is pushing men away in many ways and there are so many inequities and inequalities in terms of gender that need to be righted over centuries and centuries, and we're on our way to doing better with that, i hope, but i think you can do two things at once on this show. you can lift people up without pushing the other gender down.

let's continue this conversation with the deputy editor of the economists, lead author of the piece we just mentioned, robert guest. good morning. it's great to have you on. and the piece, you write about why we're seeing such divergent priorities between the sexes and you write, the most likely causes of this growing division are education. young men are getting less of it than young women. experience, advanced countries have become less sexist and men and women experience this differently, and echo chambers. social media aggravate polarization. also, in democracies, many politicians on the right are deftly stoking young male grievances while many on the left barely acknowledge young men have real problems, but they do, starting with education. although the men at the top are doing fine, many of the rest are struggling. in rich countries, 28% of boys and only 18% of girls failed to reach the minimum level of reading proficiency and women have overtaken men at

university. so robert, where do you start looking at this trend? what's the source of this? you say it was equal for many, many years, and it seems to have gone in a different direction in recent. >> what you start by is remembering this is not just an american problem. this is something we're seeing all around rich and developed countries, you know, places as different as sort of poland, america, france, south korea, china, and then you've got to look at what's changed, and we were very, very careful not to exaggerate this. we got our data team to look very carefully at the highest quality polling and how it had changed over time, and we found that the gap -- if you put yourself on a scale of sort of, you know, one to ten from liberal to very conservative, 20 years ago, there was basically no difference between young men and women, that sort of 18 to 29-year-olds across the

20 rich country that is we looked at, but now there's a gap, and it may not sound large, but it's twice as large as the gap between people who went to college and people who didn't. people who went to college tend to skew much more liberal. the gaps double in average. that's very big and that suggests that people are hearing a different account of reality, and it's, you know, we think it's partly because men are more likely to be doing badly in education, and that affects them in the job market and that affects them in the dating market, and some of them, a minority, but a significant minority, are blaming women for the fact that they're not doing very well in the job market and the dating market, and then when you add social media to that, everyone is in these echo chambers. if you are a female, and you given a me too story, you're

going to be served up more me too stories. if you're a guy and served a story falsely accused of rape, you'll be given more stories like that. this is an exaggerated view of the risks you personally face, and that's very polarizing. >> robert, i wrote a lot about this in a book i wrote last year "the power code," and we looked at a theory, the idea that young men in particular felt that they were losing out, and that that caused resentment. they didn't see the pie growing. there was a theory that, you know, if women were getting on better, that must mean they were getting on worse. i'm not entirely sure women are getting on that much better because there's just been a report showing the number of women in america anyway, has declined for the first time in a while. everyone's losing out, but one of the political theories that i had heard posited was that women -- because women have been at the kind of losing end of power structures until fairly recently, when they start getting into power, they retain more empathy for immigrants or for people lower down the scale.

they tend to have more support understandably for d.i. initiatives and stuff, and that tends to actually push women more to the left. it's not just that men are going more to the right. it's that women are becoming more liberal and i wanted you to talk about that side of the equation. what's happening there? >> this is about how people express their political allegiance, and i think, you know, generally speaking, younger generations are more liberal than older generations, but there's a tendency to take the progress that's happened in the past, and understandably to focus on the things that still need correcting. so, you know, nobody -- it's not an issue anymore whether women are allowed to enter the legal profession which was a, you know, really big deal back in the 1960s, things like sort of marital rape have been criminalized everywhere. certainly in rich countries, so people tend to take for granted

the progress of the path which have been considerable and focus on the problems they're facing in the future, and for women, that means you're focusing on things like the, you know, imbalance in the c-suite which is large, but when young men when haven't been to college hear about that, they say, you shouldn't complain because it's almost entirely male. that's other men. that's not us. we're the guys struggling to make a living, and people tend to fix on their own issues, understandably, and like i said with social media, they tend to get an exaggerated view of how bad things are for them and how likely really bad things are to happen to them. coming up, the march jobs report is out this morning on the heels of a big selloff yesterday on wall street. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with business before the bell when "morning joe" comes right back. ight back

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seton hall is the tournament champion. the pirates rallied past indiana state. the sycamores had three chances to win the final seconds, but were blocked on two three-point attempts and a desperation heave at the buzzer fell short. congrats to seton hall. the ncaa tournament action resumes tonight with the highly

anticipated women's final four. south carolina are undefeated and takes on nc state featuring caitlin clark and top-seeded iowa against paige bueckers and number three uconn. the winners of those games square off on sunday. the men's final four tips off tomorrow night. it has been a record-setting year for march madness with both the men's and women's games reaching record breaking viewership numbers. the spotlight on the tournament has made clear how athletes are using their brand to earn sponsorships. but new and different rules for different states has led to confusion for athletes and their schools. and now there's pressure for congress to act. sam brock folk with athletes,

administrators and sports law experts and joins us now with more. what did you find out? >> reporter: good morning. there's a lot to talk about here. there's roughly half a million student athletes competing under the ncaa. only a handful of them are signing these mega deals, but thousands are benefitting from n.i.l. there's different laws in more than half of all states. it has created legislative and legal chaos. on the court, it's march madness. >> oh my! from schenectady! >> reporter: with star athletes like caitlin clark dominating the stage. but for thousands of students also name, image and likeness to

lock up money. their lives have been jolted as much as an ncaa bracket. how did you notice it changing your experience as a student athlete? >> i would say for me it was a good opportunity to find different avenues outside of my sport and use my passion. the first things i did when nil passed is i created my own merch line. i was able to donate some of that. >> reporter: around 30 states have their own legislation and none of it is regulated by federal law. how sort of disorienting has this all been? >> it was definitely overwhelming at first. that was one of the reasons i came to lsu, is the resources we have here. >> reporter: lsu has been at the forefront of the change with some of the most prominent names

in college athletes. they have an app guiding athletes on everything from finding deals to calculating taxes, even forming their own n.i.l. office. >> we actually ran a billboard in times square. >> reporter: led by director taylor jacobs, who was a former athlete herself. >> how can we best educate our athletes? that can mean anything from understanding a contract to what are you giving to the brand you're working with. >> reporter: even for someone who dissects every detail of n.i.l. things right now are downright confusing. >> i would be foolish to say i completely understand what's coming. >> reporter: congress is looking into the matter and recently hosted nick saban, who testified he supports n.i.l., but not this version. >> whoever wants to pay the most money is going to have the best opportunity to win. >> reporter: saban is referring to a collective or organization

formed by deep-pocketed donors that can offer athletes n.i.l. deals. >> it's hard to even comprehend where we've gone in such a short period of time, from a situation where athletes were absolutely depressed when it comes to their rights to now arguably having more rights than professional athletes. >> reporter: who has jurisdiction outside of the federal government to create some sort of uniform rules and regulations? >> nobody. that's the issue that the ncaa is dealing with right now. >> reporter: as many in college sports have called this situation the wild, wild west, the ncaa and its president have pleaded with congress to act warning of aggravating an already chaotic collegiate environment. as for athletes like bailey,

she's excited for what the future holds. >> you have to sacrifice so much. they just want to give back to their family, and they can do that through n.i.l. >> reporter: is congress going to act? members of the senate and house have proposed pieces of legislation dealing with an n.i.l. reporting system. they said, look, we have 21 athletic programs, 19 make no money, two do, football and men's basketball. if you take money from that, what about the revenues used to subsidize all these other sports programs? it's a concern shared by other schools, but they're acknowledging it's got to be part of the solution. there is no real momentum on anything on capitol hill. >> thank you so much, sam brock.

so saban comes back from the rose bowl and next day or two his players call a meeting with him to basically say what are you going to pay us? saban's like, okay, great idea. 30 minutes later he's holding a press conference saying he's leaving. i thought his testimony was so powerful, when his wife said what are we doing here? you recruit these kids. you want to develop them into men over four years, and yet they're coming to you with their hands out saying what are you going to do for me next? a coach like nick saban or any great coach, at the end of a season, they might go good job,

but you need to get better in these three areas. if you want to start next year, these are the three areas. or if you want to be our key player, you're going to have to do this better, this better, this better. you know, leave them actually hungry so they'll work harder, be in the weight room more, do reps more on whatever skill position they're at. but in this case, you can't even do that, because oh wait, you're saying i'm not going to be your star next year? okay. i'll just go to texas. they'll give me a maserati and we'll be off to the races. you can't develop kids that way. you've got to be able to do it the saban way and keep pushing them hard. then at the end of four or five years, they're go to the nfl or

the business world and they're successful because they knew how to sacrifice over those four years. >> yeah. certainly strong arguments can be mad the players deserve some sort of compensation. schools get rich off these players and they received scholarships, of course, but otherwise weren't receiving any money, at least above the table. but this system seems broken. there needs to be some solution here.

there are some good things about these developments in college sports, but it needs to be regulated and come up with some solution to improve it. >> it's always broken my heard that these kids give their all. some of them get hurt. the universities make millions and millions of dollars. i've always said they need health care. they need guaranteed health care. they also need a salary of some sort since the university is making so much. i think nick saban had said at one point to somebody close to him, pay them 30 or $35,000 a year and pay all the players that. so that are getting some money back for thele millions and millions of dollars that universities like alabama make off of their college players. but this system is broken, and congress needs to step in and do

something. so the march job numbers came out. it was released moments ago. good lord, this is an economy that you can't keep down. that's not actually great news for the biden administration. it shows the economy added 303,000 jobs last month. economists expected closer to 200,000. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle. donny deutsch and rev al sharpton and katty kay with us as well. andrew, there's a reason why i only went to the business school for one class, econ 101 and i

sat in the back reading "sports illustrated" and probably slipped out of there with a gentleman's c-minus. it's so maddening. i was hoping that number was going to be a little bit lower so we could get those interest rate cuts. >> right. >> so this economy would cool down. you can't cool this economy down, andrew. >> to some extent, that's a good news is good news story. it means we have more people coming into the workforce than before, and yet we're able to actually now have lower unemployment numbers. you're having higher wages. you're finally having wages that are outstripping inflation, which is a good trend line, especially when you think about some of the political dynamics that represents. i'm not sure i look at this and say this is such terrible news. i know there was an expectation earlier in the year that the fed might lower interest rates this

june. i think that may be off the table. nonetheless, i think this is all good news. you look at where the jobs are coming from. it's hospitality, it's education, health care. these are all high-touch businesses. that also is a function a little bit of the pre-pandemic/post-pandemic world, which is it's all come back. the real question is how long does that persist until they get to sort of a steady state. clearly there is some good news there. >> in those areas, of course, that is coming out of sort of the post-covid economy. yes, it's great for all the reasons andrew said. at the same time, inflation still could go up.

oil over $90 now. again, this is an economy that could heat up just like this. i find it hard to believe that the fed is going to lower interest rates twice this year if the economy keeps growing like this. >> i don't disagree with you. andrew's right. good news is good news. this is a really strong report. there's even kind of an immigration story hidden in here. with all the people coming into this country, employers are scooping them up. there are jobs to be had. i think the point that you're getting at goes to how americans feel and the inflation point. it's great that wage growth is moving faster. that's great on paper. but when people get paid more money, they credit themselves with it. but when life is expensive, which it is, they blame the government. when you go to the grocery store and things cost a lot of money, i could say, guess what, we've had the best economic recovery

in the world. no one says, gee, i was planning to move to spain and it's more expensive there. when my son gets a job this summer making $17 an hour, he's going to think it's because he's a great employee. he's not. they're not going to lower their prices any time soon. life is expensive. that's what makes this challenging. to andrew's original point, no one can argue we have a bad economy. we have a very strong one that has a difficult political story to tell because life's expensive. >> the president put out a statement just a few moments ago talking about how this report marks a milestone in america's comeback. that's the story so far they want to do, but there is more to it. there's good news and worrisome news. >> you're joe biden, and you have an economy that on every

level, the stock market record high, unemployment record low, jobs record high, wages record high, consumer confidence record high, manufacturing at a high. yet, you ask people how are you doing also personally? much better than i've been doing. how's the economy? the economy sucks. one of the major reasons they think the economy sucks is because things are still expensive. if i'm biden or the democrats, the simple question you have to ask is the ultimate political question, are you better off today than you were four years ago? and they are. yes, prices and gas are still high, but the reality is you're better off. their job is to take it from an abstract economy to you the voter. >> he has to really show it to them though, because people still -- >> look at your i.r.a., look at your savings accounts, look at the value of everything in your life is up. you are better off.

you're making higher wages. your children are better off. you have to make that story on a one-to-one basis. >> one thing i think is good about this report is when you go from an over 9% unemployment in the pandemic, double digits among blacks and latinos, and now you have another month where black women are less unemployed than they were, you talk to those women, single mothers some of them that are trying to make ends meet saying that happened under me. two years ago your unemployment rate was this way. you look at blacks and latinos that have record unemployment, still higher than whites, but in some cases it's half in some states of what it was. the facts speak for themselves. i think people need to say don't

take for granted that you've got a job. i did that by doing what i did with the infrastructure bill and inflation reduction. you have to connect it to the base. >> some people that aren't feeling great about the economy are the voters joe biden need the most. it's young voters trying to afford a home. that contributes to americans not feeling great about the economy despite the numbers and not giving president biden any credit. >> there are some stories that young people are not feeling great about the economy because what they're seeing on tiktok. is that disinformation? it's also true housing numbers are out of control, unaffordable for young people. nothing compared to what i had when i left college. we've seen gas prices come down, but the "wall street journal" had a big analysis of food

prices which shows sugar 50% up, food prices across the board 36% higher than they were four years ago. it's something people are feeling every single time they went to the grocery store. steph said they're not coming down soon. gas prices and commodity prices have come down a bit. why aren't food prices going to come down? >> because there's a whole labor piece to it that's a little bit different. the question i was going to ask that relates very much to what you just said about the inflation story and it's really a donny deutsch marketing question almost. yes, the trend line is all in the right direction, but in truth, especially for those middle class and those below in our economy today, if they were to actually look at where they are today versus where they were economically three years ago even with the trend line moving the right direction from an

inflationary perspective, they could still say technically mathematically they're behind nap is the piece that makes it so hard to make the argument politically. so i'm curious how you would do that. >> focus on are you better off than you were four years ago and draw people out of this amnesia that susan glasser has written about in the new yorker. in many ways they are far, far better than they were before the pandemic. stephanie, i want to go back to you and like jonathan lemire i want to defend your son's hoagie making. i'm sure it's spectacular. i can't wait to have a hoagie that you son makes at whatever restaurant he works at.

it reminds me of a friend of mine who has a restaurant up in maine. two summers ago, he was paying kids $21 an hour and offering health care to get kids through the door who would show up when they wanted to show up, leave when they wanted to leave. if you're paying that much for jobs that you used to pay $10 an hour for, everything is going to go up. it's people are going to feel that. >> it's such an important point, when we talk about how you raise wages, you're going to have prices go up, people freak out. it's not just corporate america. we're a country of small businesses. >> these are family restaurants

i'm talking about. these people that are saying oh, these big corporations are price gauging, these are small businesses. these are family restaurants that are feeling this. >> yes, they're feeling it and they're saying i need to pay up to hire these summer workers, so i'm forced to raise my prices. so then everyone in that community in maine is furious about what that lobster roll is costing. they're then complaining about the economy. and my son who just made $17 an hour for the worst hoagie ever, now that we have a pressure-filled tip system after he makes you the lousy hoagie that he forgot the hoagie on, he's going to turn the screen and around and say would you like to tip me. this is a complicated story.

we are a country of small business. don't forget he's going to turn around and tip shame you at the end. >> oh my god. poor guy. his mom is not his biggest fan. >> guess what? he'll be able to afford to pay for his own deejay equipment he's dying to purchase. >> andrew, you know, i convinced myself about six months ago that young voters were moving to the right because of tiktok. one of my older sons, who is -- he votes for democrats. let me just put it that way. one of my younger sons said,

you're living in a different world, dad. let me tell you something. it is impossible for us to buy a home. we go out to eat and we are crushed by it. it's hard for me to tell you how progressive these people are. all of my children began as progressives just to irritate me. they said, you know what, if trump wasn't a fascist, we would be voting republican right now because we are so crushed by the cost of the economy. i was shocked. >> and that goes to the idea that there's a feeling and there may be data. the trend line of the data is right in a good way, but the feeling is not wrong either. the feeling is the reality in so many ways.

so many things do cost so much more than they did before. that's something that is not going to get resolved before november. it just isn't. you get the trend line in the right direction before november, but you're not going to have prices reverse, if you will, materially reverse in a way or wages go up so much that it somehow upends this conundrum of where we have been when it comes to pricing. >> i have a friend who use moved here from london. he said even with higher wages, america just feels so expensive at the moment compared to how it used to be and certainly compared to how it is living in europe. my kids say, how are we ever going to buy a house? thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," no labels says it will not field

a presidential ticket this election after it failed to find a candidate. we'll show you what they had to say about november's election. rfk junior's campaign is doing damage control after a mass e-mail that sympathized with january 6th rioters. e-maid with january 6th rioters with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

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no labels was looking for a hero, and a hero never emerged. >> who are you going to vote for? >> who am i going to vote for? no labels itself is a c 4 organization that doesn't advocate for or against political candidates. you know, we were merely securing ballotle access. >> you have two prominent ones and maybe rfk. you as a person, what would you do? >> i would vote for biden over trump. >> hmm. that was no labels national director speaking with fox news

yesterday. the group is ending its bid for a ticket. that will be welcome news to the biden campaign. rfk junior's presidential campaign is disowning its own e-mail which referred to the january 6th insurrectionists as activists who have been stripped of their constitutional liberties. in a message to supporters yesterday signed by team kennedy, the campaign compared the situations of january 6th defendants to that of imprisoned wikileaks founder julian assange. the campaign claimed the e-mail was, quote, inserted by a new

marketing contractor and an error that does not reflect mr. kennedy's views. but kennedy has repeatedly down played the violence on january 6th and has refused to call it an insurrection. >> the yahoos who invaded that building on january 6th, which by the way what's the worst thing that could happen? what's more dangerous, that or a president of the united states who is instructing social media sites to sensor his opponents. >> you can rebuild the capitol. if you eliminate the constitution, there's really nothing left in america. >> do you characterize january 6th as an insurrection? >> you know, i don't know. i've seen all kinds sort of contrary evidence.

i have not drilled down on it. >> at the moment rfk junior looks like more of a threat to the biden white house, more of a disruption anyway than no labels ever seemed to be. what do you think the fallout is now of no labels saying that's it, we can't find a candidate so we're off the ballot? >> i think the fallout is going to be that as conventions come in the summer, as trump's trials start, i think they're going to have to make a choice. i think they will move away from third-party candidates. if you have robert kennedy saying this was not an insurrection, people are already in jail for what they did. people were calling on the death of the sitting vice president. they were sitting behind the speaker's desk and desecrating the very chamber of the house

and senate. and you can't call that an insurrection? i think people will start saying, wait a minute, i don't know if these third-party candidates are an alternative or a duplicate of the same thing. rfk is now getting money from guys that supported trump and giving excuses on january 6th, are you talking about an alternative or an exit ramp that leads you back up on the same highway of donald trump? >> no labels not fielding a candidate, but plenty of people made plenty of money off that effort. we opened the show hours ago with some sound about truth social and barry diller weighing in on whether or not it was a real thing or not. in fact, he deemed it a scam, and the people buying the stop are dopes. what are your thoughts? >> it breaks my heart that you're not going to play it again. when we're talking about the

truth, nobody likes to go on tv and drop a truth bomb like barry diller does. i called truth social a fakakta company, whatever word you want. this company is absolutely not worth where it's at on paper. what's happened in the last 24 hours is donald trump is now pumping it up on his platform. earlier this week it was funny because he -- his entire universe is talking up his game. now that he has a public company, he could get himself entangled in huge problems with the sec. if he's talking of his company and that is materially different from the actual underlying fundamentals of this company, he could sit with shareholder

lawsuits, the sec could come after him. it's going to be interesting to see how he plays this. i would make one other point. it shows how clever this is. he's not on the board of the company. jamie dimon cannot come out and pump up his company because they'll come for him. but donald trump, who owns 60% of the company and is suing his cofounders, is not an officer of the company. he may not found a loophole where he gets all of the upside and none of the downside, a true trump special. >> let me give you one simple reality. advertisers will never advertise on there. there's a reason fox let tucker carlson go. no matter how big their numbers are, they can't get advertisers. you will not have advertisers on truth social. maybe you'll have gold bouillon or eagle statues and pillows and

what not. be clear if you're investing in this company, there's no chance this will ever be successful from a revenue point of view. here's the other weird, twisted thing. the more he scams, a lot of trump's followers kind of love it. people go, ha, ha, that's our guy. >> the money for the bond was lowered to $175 million bucks. again, trump's signature takes other people's money. >> let's talk about one more trump business venture. liv golf has a tournament

starting today at doral, trump's course just outside miami. this strikes to me to be problematic for trump's ability to have classified information and not handle it carefully. also he's in desperate need of money. if there's one thing the saudi arabian crown prince has, it's lots of money. >> just ask jared kushner who's managing $2 billion of his moan with zero experience. why haven't we changed the rules and regulations to stop this? when trump was president we all sat here clutching our pearls saying this is so unethical, the conflicts of interest are enormous. here we are right in our face saying this stinks to high heaven. the conflicts of this interest are enormous. he's going to look right in the camera and laugh his way all the way to the bank saying, guess what, you make the rules and i've found my way around them. that's what's so twisted,

because this is a national security issue, partnering with the saudis on liv golf. the fact that we don't know who's buying huge sums of trump's stock could be a giant wealth transfer by somebody who has a 50% chance of being the next president. huge problem. we have to change the rules. >> stephanie ruhle, most of the hoagie king. >> they could be great. he hasn't even started yet. up next, we'll be joined by the director of a new msnbc film that examines the rise of cancel culture. and this week's episode of "morning mika" delves into the recent decision by the florida supreme court that clears the way for the state to ban abortion after six weeks of pregnancy. watch the entire episode on

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♪♪ how would i define cancel culture? >> um -- ♪♪ >> sorry, i need a second. >> when people talk about cancelling cancel culture, i don't hear a clear, understood or shared meaning. >> you are hereby set to be publicly cancelled. >> we called it public shaming, rejection, ostracizing people.

>> we didn't have a problem with cancel culture when it was the powerful people cancelling the powerless. it's only it was the powerless punching back on the powerful. >> what's the issue? is the issue when people of color start talking back, when women start talking back, and that's cancel culture? no. that's free speech. that's the freest kind of speech. you're actually getting a back and forth. >> that is a clip from a new msnbc film exploring the rise and consequences of cancel culture titled "cancelled, the story of cancel culture." it's from executive producer trevor noah. and with us is the director of the film. by the time we came to the end of the film, did you come up with a clear definition of

cancel culture? >> i was so afraid you'd ask me this. it's such a complicated thing to define. i don't know if i can define it any better than the people in the film did. i think it's subjective. it's different for every person. it lacks nuance in many cases. that's my easy way out of that question. >> isn't that the danger? and certainly i agree with some of what i saw people saying it was all right when it was the powerful on the powerless. now it's sort of, if not equal, certainly different. isn't it a danger that anyone then can jump up and cancel anyone in the name of cancel culture because of this use of it can also victimize people? >> yeah. i think that's one of the main

complaints and problems with it. judy gold, who's in the film, who had a book and a show, has this joke about, you know, in the old days your crazy uncle would be in the basement making these comments and no one would hear it. but now you post it on social media and you can find 10,000 people to back it up. i do think that's where people get upset about it. there's no regulation to it. >> i think this is such a fascinating topic. it's so important, because we've had this back and forth. i feel like the pendulum sort of swinging back now, but it's so fascinating that it's been comedians, people like dave chapelle, people associated with

the left. take somebody like fran saying if he's a horrible human being, just stay out of my house, but i'm still going to listen to the music. >> we interviewed ari melber. he said, you know, if somebody has cancer and they go to the doctor who has the cure, they don't say, can i look at your tweets? you know, where we fall on thinking about artists, people who are long gone, it's an issue. cancel culture is very different, i think, with comedians. because with comedians, i think

they feel like i want to be able to say what i want on stage, or i want to be able to be try out something on stage. other art forms you can't do that. >> you hear it from the artist community that say we want to be able to take chances and do things that may be over the line. if they're over the line, we'll come back to the other side of the line. but there are writers, comedians, artists who feel that chill right now. it is a difficult balance especially for artists to make. >> it's really tough. joe talked about that pendulum. we saw it swing and a lot of people that deserved to be cancelled cancelled and then we saw collateral damage from that.

where do you see that pendulum right now? >> i can't predict. there's been cancelling going on since the beginning of time, but when social media became part of it, it took a life of its own. so many things would determine that. loretta ross talked about there are so many good things that come with this mass voice on the internet too. it's just that this is one that can be negative. >> the film is "cancelled, the story of cancel culture" that premiers this sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. moments ago secretary blinken responded to the idf's report about the deadly strike on aid workers in gaza.

the report found serious violations of commands and a string of errors which resulted in the firing of two top officers. >> we received israel's report on the terrible killing of the world central kitchen workers. we are taking steps to hold those responsible accountable. even more, making sure that steps going forward to ensure something like this can never happen again. >> secretary blinken went onto say as israel pursues military operations against hamas, it has to prioritize the protection of civilians. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." be right back wit "morning joe."

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why may 3rd? what do you find by doing it? what does it get you? >> i always wanted an alternative existence, and by that i mean i wanted to do something where i could study my own sentiments and experiences, and i found that i could do that in relation to making things and making art in particular. >> that was famed artistry charred sarah who became known as one of the era's great sculptors. he died at the age of 85 last tuesday at his home in new york. he's known for sculpting steel into enormous environments of shapes that are meant for viewers to walk through and fully experience the art. he's one of mrs. brzezinski's favorite artists. with us now to discuss the life and legacy of richard serra is the president of the san francisco art institute legacy foundation and also the founder

of ka barra art institute in nairobi. thank you so much. >> thanks so much. so steve radner told me a story one time. he worked with so many of the great writers at "the new york times," and one of those writers was johnny apple. i said what was he like? he said, well, johnny apple is why i do what i do. and i go what do you mean? he said i saw him work and immediately knew i could never be as good as him at what he did. i knew i had to get away from the times and go to another field. richard serra had a similar experience right? >> i'm really excited to be talking about serra and not discussing the other things in the world, which is art, which is something prevalent in our lives. serra started out as an english lit major at uc berkeley and transferred to santa barbara where where he graduated and ended up being pushed to go get

his bf a&m fa at yale. and after he did that, he actually went on to go study in europe on a fulbright, and when he was in spain and saw diego velazquez's painting, he was like i can't do that. i can't do that at all, why would i do this. he wasn't set out to be a sculptor. he was set out to be a painter. so when he circled back to the u.s. and he also had gone to japan and had some scenarios where he really loved the gardens of japan, and came back to the u.s., he really settled into sculpture and, you know, using many different variations of materials, rubber and neon and fiber until he -- and lead, and then he really, in my mind is the king of the steel sculpture. you know, i adore ms.

brzezinski's work. i've been in her studio, and i always thought it was huge. her work was large to me. her work is dwarfed by the impact that richard serra's work has on it, you know. and he was a person who believed in it being in sight, right? it was created for a sight. it wasn't like i'm going to create it and then i'm going to place it somewhere. i'm actually going to make it for this scenario, and so he had some interesting mentors. jasper johns, jackson pollock. he did a piece for jasper johns in his home, and you know, it was -- later he got paid for that by a piece of art that jasper johns gave him, and so, you know, he's a san franciscan. he was born and raised there. >> charles, one of the -- >> by the way, that's pretty good payment, katty. >> yeah. i think for this morning's show,

if you could just send me a jasper johns -- that would be fine. >> if i could do what i can, i'll call you later. >> so we're really lucky here in d.c., the glenstone museum just outside washington and maryland, there are a couple of serra pieces. they're always my favorites. i go straight for them, and i think what always amazes me about his work is that it's so big and solid and steel, and yet it's ethereal and almost spiritual. there's a kind of religious quality, and i'm not a religious person, but i feel like i do when i go into a cathedral. i just -- the way he combines those two opposing forces is always what i love about his work. >> it's grace and stability in a unique way, right? >> grace and stability. >> and so you know, his art, what's interesting about his sculptures is they're not set up and supported in any other way other than how they're assembled. so there's not supports holding them up. they're weighted and created in

a way that when they're set in, they're set in and they're dependent on their own. for example, the working glenstone was made for glenstone, right? it's very specific. he's done amazing pieces across the world. he's probably -- he's the most prolific sculptor as it comes to steel worldwide. and you know, a huge loss but a huge life. you know, he provides an opportunity for the world to experience something like stonehenge when you relate to his work. it's that powerful and big, and that's the impact of art. it's meaningful and has a real impact on those that experience it, and so -- >> let's have donnie jump in, donnie. >> charles, nice to talk to you. >> likewise. >> an artist has two legacies, the art they leave behind and the effect they have on other artists. who would you say are the great up and coming american sculptors that we should keep an eye on?

>> i hadn't really thought about that. he was inspired by people like bran koozie who did much smaller work. he created freedom for art. he created freedom for artists to really think about what they would want to be able to do and what their possibilities would look like. i mean, this piece right here is just gorgeous, and you know, we get to see these pieces and you're a small individual in this big piece of life that you're experiencing the moment you're in it, and you know, his work has also not always been so well-received, tilted in new york, which was a piece that he did at a federal building in new york and no one loved it, you know. and it went up, and people didn't like the fact that it blocked the walk and sometimes got graffiti on it, and you know, it went up in '81. it went to a vote in '85 and was removed in '89, right?

he had the impact of the art world by really being able to put something that people had to stop and pay attention to. they had to interact with it, you know. >> that's extraordinary. >> interesting. yeah, it really is. president of the san francisco art institute legacy foundation, charles desantis. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you, i really appreciate being here. >> it's great. and katty, you know, mika and i had talked about this and wanted to do this segment right after he passed, but it seemed that it always kept getting crowded out, and we just said, you know, trumpism and all the ka tsa tree fiezing has crowded out too often discussions about art, discussions about music, discussions about the things that actually make us whole, that complete us, and it is just something we need to do more.

i'm so glad to hear that you are a serra fan too. >> i've just come away from that conversation like grinning, smiling, and there's so much that's going on in the world that's so bleak, and i'm so glad, i mean, thank you for me for the end of my week and friday that i come away from the show after four hours thinking just even looking at the images of those richard serras has made me feel good. we need more of that in our lives. we all do. >> there's no doubt about it, and rev, if you could as we go to break, talk to us about what you have planned next week with nan and your annual convention. i'm really looking forward to that. >> we are looking forward to it as well, national action network's annual convention. the sessions are free, it starlets the 10th through the 13th. we have three governors coming. we have a major business, people talking about black economic opportunities. we're going to talk about media in this critical age of the

election this year, and i'm doing a fireside chat with joe scarborough on that. we're honoring whoopie goldberg, she'll be there, and the women, i'm breaking the surprise, want to give something to mika. we're going to have everybody there. the whole team will be there, and i think that it is important people come to the session. it's free. go to nationalactionnetwork.net. >> we'll certainly be looking forward to that, and of course this weekend we've got the final four, women tonight, the men including your alabama crimson tide tomorrow. >> i will tell you what, we're all just hoping that alabama keeps it close. all right, well, that does it for us this morning. thank you so much for being with us. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," we are following