i'm not a seer, and looking at what's in front of me, and i agree that that's one of the paradoxes of this political moment. but remember, the biden white house spent much of last year on a campaign to do just what you're talking about. going around the country trying to sell the presidents many legislative achievements to americans, there is no evidence to suggest that it improved his particular, personal poll standing at all after a year of campaigning to do that. there's evidence that suggests that democrats as a party are doing pretty well right now, but so far it hasn't yet seemed to translate into the prospects for the president himself. >> the night is young, susan, we are going to see how it all shapes up. thank you for joining me this friday night, really appreciate it. >> great to be with you. >> that is our show for tonight, it's time for the last word with ali velshi who is in for lawrence. >> it's an interesting

disconnect that you're talking about, particularly, my job is economics, and i'm looking at these numbers thinking, this is hard that that doesn't translate as clearly as it should, but as you said, the night is young. >> the night is young, things are changing. we've got a long way between now and november. >> have a great weekend, my friend. you know the expression it's not in our national interest? it often refers to whether the u.s. should or shouldn't get involved in a dispute or political situation elsewhere. once in a while, something that is not in our national interest as it relates to the world happens right here. and donald trump is that thing. donald trump is hurting american national interests in the world. not a hypothetical, not if he's re-elected, but right now. the nato, nato, has a trump problem. so the 32 member military alliance, the largest and most effective in the history of the world, marked its 75th anniversary by working on a plan

to trump proof itself. as both a candidate and as president, donald trump repeatedly proved his recklessness when it comes to our national security and his interest in russian aggression. in 2019 the new york times reported, senior administration officials told the new york times that several times over the course of 2018, mr. trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the nato. now, would donald trump's publican party holding a critical aid to ukraine in congress, nato is taking seriously donald trump threat that he would not protect our allies from russian attack. >> no, i would not protect you. in fact, i would encourage them to do whatever they want. >> that's the former president of the united states inviting russia's vladimir putin and his army to do whatever they want to american allies. the financial times reports that nato has begun planning a $100 billion plan for ukraine,

despite the u.s. urging caution over aspects of a proposal aiming to trump proof western support. nato secretary-general has backed an overhaul in which the alliance would oversee a five- year support plan for ukraine, and take over management of the group, which the u.s. set up to coordinate military supplies from 50 western countries. the u.s. continues to want more information about stoltenberg's proposal, and will engage on its specifics in additional meetings, said a person familiar with the biden administration's thinking. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken uses interventions during the brussels talks to express some concerns about the $100 billion fund, but he did not oppose it out right, the person said. adding to the u.s. wants to discuss it more,". yesterday president biden issued this statement on nato's

a 75th anniversary, now, like generations before us, we must choose to protect this progress and build on it. we must remember that the sacred commitment we make to our allies to defend every inch of nato territory makes us safer, too, and gives the united states a bulwark of security unrivaled by any other nation in the world. and like our predecessors, we must ask ourselves what we can do, what we must do to create a more peaceful future. donald trump's former national security adviser believes the donald trump will pull out of nato if he becomes president again. unless he is distracted. >> i think he would do it very early in the term. the remedy i would propose to anyone who doesn't want us to withdraw from nato is find a way to distract his attention. since he has a short attention span, that can work at least for a while until it pops back into his head.

>> until it pops back into his head. i don't know what's more disturbing the trump wants to break nato or that his mind is so infantile that he can be distracted away from his plan to break nato. tony is retired u.s. navy admiral and former nato supreme allied commander, msnbc's chief international security and diplomacy analyst, and the coauthor of the new book 2054, a novel. i will not ask you to comment on that business about donald trump being distracted away from it, but i think it's important that we have a conversation in america about why it's important that this is a priority for america to remain part of this historic and remarkably important alliance. >> let's start with some facts. let's do the numbers. the european union, which essentially is all of the european nations that are part of nato, collectively, they represent 25% of the world's

gross domestic product, just like the united states, which is about 25% of the world's domestic product. collectively, u.s. and nato nations, that's well over 50% of the entire output of the world. number two, u.s. defense budget, about 800 billion, we've got global responsibilities, the second largest defense budget in the world is not china, it's not russia, it's the european defense budget collectively. it's about $320 billion. third and finally, who came with us, fought with us, died with us in afghanistan after we were attacked on 9/11? that's the only time nato has been attacked. europeans came with us, fought and died. this is a powerful collective alliance economically, militarily, and bottom line, they share our values,

democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of education, freedom of assembly. we'll never find another pool of allies in the world than nato, it's good value. >> and given the success of holding off the russian army in ukraine, i think there are a lot of people, democratic countries that are looking at this alliance and wondering how they can attach themselves to nato in some ways, and in ukraine it's not just been nato, it's been nato plus other countries. smart thinkers in the world and strategists would think that you want something that's nato plus, which we do have in the last two years, nato including two more countries, not nato minus. >> indeed, finland and sweden, two historically neutral nations, sweden has been neutral for 200 years, decided to join nato. i've commanded these troops in battle. they came with us, although not nato members, they came with us and fought alongside us in

afghanistan. these are turnkey militaries, ready to fight, who have a long, difficult history with russia, which is why they're now joining nato. nato is just getting stronger and more expansive, in good ways, because we have to face the threat of vladimir putin in ukraine. >> nato works when countries are not isolationist, or the member countries. part of the reason donald trump carries on about it is because he's got the america first concept that he can't really deliver on. as you mentioned, america is not the target of the world and many right now, but it could happen. it's important for us not to think that we should be going it alone. >> we don't have to imagine what it would look like if the united states became isolationist, pulled back, rejected the world, decided that we would come home to

america. we did that, we did it 100 years ago in the 1920s. we came back from europe after world war i, we rejected the league of nations, the predecessor to the united nations. we erected massive tariff barriers, google hawley smoot tariff's. we came home. america first literally was one of the mottos of those isolation groups. how did that work out? well, we cracked the global economy, fascism rose, we were attacked at pearl harbor by the japanese imperial empire, and hitler declared war on us. we ended up in the middle of a massive world war. let's nip it in the bud by defeating vladimir putin in ukraine. >> good to see you as always, we appreciate the context, the historical context that you bring. the retired united states navy admiral and the former supreme allied commander of nato. joining us now, marcy short,

professor of history at yale university, who is just back from kyiv, author of the book the ukrainian night, an intimate history of revolution. it's good to see you, thank you for being with us. the concept of leaving nato is, for the moment, and abstraction, could become very real. the reality of what happens when the united states starts to become isolationist or not think about itself as a participant is actually the danger we're seeing in ukraine. 42 million people whose freedoms and liberties are at stake because america is dallying about supporting ukraine. >> i don't think most americans realize that we are a hair's breadth from the third world war at this point. the polls realize it, the latvians realize it, the estonians, the lithuanians, they know that at any moment that work across their borders. article five should go into effect. it really is a situation, at the moment, where either we give ukraine what they need and let the ukrainians fight the

russians, or we start preparing for the third world war. which i literally do think it could come at any moment. >> i think you're right that americans don't realize this, they think to themselves, ukraine wasn't a nato country. poland is. why would vladimir putin gain, how could that not be something more serious? but the europeans are taking this threat very seriously. the idea that the united states will not stand behind them and donald trump is not making us guess about this. he said it out loud that he will let the russians overtake certain countries if they don't contribute enough to their defense spending. >> and it's completely terrifying. boudin obviously has trump in his pocket, whether that's because of trump has long been enamored of it, whether that's because narcissistic psychopathic assisted sadistic lunatics hang out together, people who share a sense of having no restraint. for whatever reason, trump has been in boudin's pocket.

at this point, johnson is beholden to trump, trump feels beholden to putin, and the world is being held hostage. if we don't get that aid to ukraine, they cannot, they can't hold off the russians without our weapons. i was in kyiv during multiple missile attacks. in the course of just three hours, on one night, during which i spent in a bomb shelter, the russians sent 31 missiles, just to keith. that was approximately $390 million worth of missiles. coming from a country in which millions of people are too impoverished to import indoor plumbing. all 31 of them spectacularly, were shot down by ukrainian air defense. ukrainian air defense has gotten extremely skilled, but they can't do it without the ammunition. they are rapidly running out of ammunition. >> if it happens, if ukraine

gets the aid and the support that it needs, the administration is supportive, congress isn't getting his that's its act together, if they get what they need, can this war end? >> yes. i think the ukrainians can defeat the russians, and they are not going to give up until they do. not because of the land, but because of the people. the areas that have come under russian occupation have been such an incredible reign of terror that nobody feels it's a morally sustainable to leave people to that reign of terror. it's effectively like saying, could we leave some part of the european jewish population under rule? could there have been some kind of settlement with hitler with the third reich in 1945 in which, well, there's the negotiate with and some part of that population that left under occupation, that is not sustainable. you have a near totalitarian regime, a madman who cares

nothing for other people's life it will keep slaughtering and torturing people. q mccray appreciate your analysis, thank you for being with us today. marcy sure is a yale university professor, and an author of the ukrainian night, an intimate history of revolution. a quick programming note, i'll be continuing this conversation on my show on sunday, with lieutenant colonel, of european affairs at the national security council during the trump administration. he'll be in kyiv as well, sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on msnbc. still ahead this hour in a week when donald trump is using fear mongering and violent language to talk about immigration, president biden visited with the families of immigrant workers who were killed in baltimore when the francis scott key bridge collapsed. what real leadership looks like, next. like, next. a once—daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief... and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check. when flares kept trying to slow me down... i got lasting steroid—free remission... with rinvoq. check.

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our hearts are still breaking. eight, eight construction workers went in the water when the bridge fell. six lost their lives. most were immigrants but all were marylanders. hard-working, strong, selfless, after pulling a night shift fixing potholes, they were on a break when the ship struck. all the families and loved ones were grieving, have come here to agree with you. we all are. we also never forget the contribution these men made to the city. we're going to keep working hard to recover each of them. and, my vow is that we will not

rest, as carlos said, until the cement has dried and the entirety of a new bridge, a new bridge. >> president biden in baltimore today vowing to rebuild the francis scott key bridge finishing the work of the six victims were doing the night the bridge collapsed. later, president biden met privately with the families of those workers to offer his condolences. hard-working, strong, selfless, we'll never forget the contribution his wife to make people commute a little better to make that city run a little better. beau zimmer workers did more for american and researcher than donald trump, who lost several in researcher weeks during his presidency ever did, yet donald trump calls immigrants animals. >> democrats said they're humans, i said no, they're not humans, they're animals. >> trump says he only need some immigrants, the criminal suspects are animals. but it's the same trick as

bloodbath, which apparently didn't mean bloodbath either, but rather trade war with china. here's how you know he's lying. he can just say the full thought out loud, but he doesn't. he never does. they, always they, are animals. no context, ever. when he celebrates the people who implemented putting tender age children in cages taking them from their parents more than 5000 children stolen from their parents on trump's order, as he did last night, at his florida club. >> most of the people behind me are incredible, and we are working on the border together, coming back here >> tom, who will apparently make a comeback if trump is re- elected, is tom hohmann, who served as acting director of customs enforcement during trump's administration, and was an early proponent of the administration's controversial zero-tolerance policy, which resulted in at least 5500 families being separated at the southern border in 2018. that's who trump wants to bring

back if he wins. the people who stole children from their parents, because they happened to come from somewhere outside this country. are those parents animals? are those kids animals? because the trump administration sure treated them like animals. what do you think trump believes? the razor wire at the border which trump has called beautiful, was a drowning human beings are animals? what do you think trump believes? politicians have always had opinions about immigrations, somewhat more, somewhat less, but never in modern time has a president of america, a nation of immigrants, ever mainstreamed this hatred like trump has. this is not politics as usual. anti-immigration replacement and invasion rhetoric are literally what the mass murderers say drove them to kill 11 people in pittsburgh in 2018. 23 people in el paso in 2019. 10 people in a buffalo supermarket in 2022. so trump isn't just singing this refrain for his base.

trumps a focus on immigration is not a sign of strength, it's his weakness. he's not just on the wrong side of history, he's on the wrong side of economics. today's blockbuster jobs numbers, good for the country, good for workers, good for president biden. trump is posting on his money- losing vanity social media platform about migrant job fairs. what does that mean? i have no idea. but he wants you to feel threatened by it. he's already lying about immigrants in the upcoming election. >> they're allowing these people to come in, people that don't speak our language, they're signing them up to vote. >> trump attacks immigrants when he's weak. because he thinks viciousness makes him look strong. trump attacks immigrants because his base loves that no republican will ever be as vicious as he is. trump attacks immigrants because it is a very reliable hatred, when he has nothing else to run on. what can we do?

we cannot let it work, to start. we can call it out for what it is. poison to our body politic. it takes a leader to remind us of our shared humanity. >> just seconds before one of the men, named carlos, who was only 24, left a message for his girlfriend. here's what it said. we just poured cement. we're waiting for it to dry. my vow is that we will not rest, as carlos said, until the cement has dried, and the entirety of a new bridge, a new bridge. >> joining us now is the democratic congress and robert garcia from florida, a member of the house oversight and homeland security committees. congressman, thank you for being with us today. >> happy to be here, thank you. >> let's talk about this. donald trump is not letting up, i did not think i could be surprised by donald trump's rhetoric, but literally every rally on every saturday night that he holds, he takes this immigrant anti-immigrant rhetoric farther and farther.

>> it's really shameful, it's disgusting. i think what he has done to the immigration conversation has really set us back as a country. those men that died on that bridge our heroes. those are the kind of man that i grew up with. i'm an immigrant, i came here as a young kid, from a family of working-class immigrants. and to see folks like from my family, these men being demonized by a former president, by the republican nominee for president, is just disgusting. donald trump and all of his supporters should be ashamed of themselves. this is a country of immigrants that immigrants have built, have contributed so much to build, and he's taken this debate and conversation so backwards. i'm grateful that we have someone like president biden to remind us of our shared humanity, to remind us who these men were, of their contributions, of the hard work that immigrants do in this country every single day. >> i'm concerned about, in this

country we have accidentally or otherwise decided to treat immigration as a security threat, as opposed to an economic matter. we've done this, immigration falls under the department of homeland security, and understand why it was done after 9/11, but it feels like it was a mistake. most other countries think of immigration as an economic imperative, anything about security at their borders as a separate matter. we've lumped the two together and it becomes impossible for americans to think about it as an economic imperative that it is, because we think about it as a security matter. >> that's right. immigration is a net positive in this country. immigrants, look at the economy. immigrants contribute so much to our national economy, our local economies in all of our states across the country. immigrants are getting educated, going back, you have folks that are completing graduate degrees, folks from

other countries that are here contribute in, everything from folks that are going to college the folks that are out there, painting our cement, our streets, our roads, our bridges, there's so much contributions. we know that the only way our economy can work is with immigrants, and often time immigrant labor that many other folks don't want to do. this idea that we're going to shut off immigration, that we're going to go back on our rallies is wrong. donald trump is the leader of this rhetoric. he's convinced so many republicans that used to have a little bit more, a little bit more respect for immigrants, a little bit more understanding of the contributions. this is not the party of ronald reagan, of george bush. of so many others that at least understood those contributions. he has a warped reality, his rhetoric is racist against immigrants.'s rhetoric is in the public, and he needs, in this campaign, needs to be stopped. >> i want to ask you about the idea, you keep saying the contribution that immigrants make to our economy.

it's substantial. america outgrows its developed world competitors because of immigration. that's the thing that tends to make america grow faster than most of these other developed countries. why is that not registering with people? >> i think part of the big issue is that we've gotten away from our values as a country, and i blame a lot of that on donald trump. he's demonized from day one, from the second he came down the escalator in new york, he's been demonizing immigrants as murderers, as killers, look at the way he's talked about the border, about shooting migrants in the legs, electrifying defense. this is a way of dehumanizing immigrants as people, dehumanizing folks from my community, families like mine. that has been his mission since day one, and he has, every day, implemented this type of rhetoric and these policy changes not only when he was president, but throughout the republican party.

the moderate gop is just a reflection of donald trump. donald trump is xenophobic, his rhetoric is racist, he talks about immigrants and calls us animals, and i think the rest of the country, decent people across this country, need to wake up and realize how dangerous his rhetoric is and how dangerous he is to so many millions of people across this country. these people are our neighbors, our friends, they go to our schools with their kids, they are helping in our home, fixing our bridges, and educators, scientists, and other amazing people across the country. we need to shift this in conversation about immigration, and one other thing. and i became a u.s. citizen i was in my early 20s, when i raised my hand and pledged to this country, it was transformational for me and my family. i never knew i'd become a u.s. congressman, but these are the gifts, these are the amazing opportunities that i have had

as an immigrant who pledge my allegiance to this country, and there are millions more like me i just want to contribute to our country. >> as lin-manuel miranda says, immigrants, we get the job done. rissman, good to see you, thank you. rissman robert garcia. coming up, by domeck's is on a roll, opponents on fox were forced to admit it again, and limit is down, wages are up, the former employment secretary joins us next. us nex. s with mild-to-moderate covid-19 and a high-risk factor for it becoming severe. it does not prevent covid-19. my symptoms are mild now, but i'm not risking it. if it's covid, paxlovid. paxlovid must be taken within the first five days of symptoms, and helps stop the virus from multiplying in your body. taking paxlovid with certain medicines can lead to serious or life-threatening side effects or affect how it or other medicines work, including hormonal birth control. it's critical to tell your doctor about all the medicines you take because certain tests or changes in their dosage may be needed. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, hiv-1, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeed.

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jobs report brought new new today for the u.s. economy and the president's economic policies. 303,000 net jobs were added to the economy, pushing and employment down slightly to 3.8%. wages also continue to rise, they're now up over 4% from where they were this time last year. this is now the 39th straight month of job growth, unemployment has remained under 4% for 26 straight months. the march jobs report feedback expectations by 100,000 jobs, all good news for a president running for re-election. the fastest growing industries this month, healthcare, government, hospitality, and construction, have consistently led job growth in the post- pandemic come back. numbers were so good president biden's harshest critics on fox were forced to admit it. >> your reaction to this jobs report? >> very good, maria. the household employment was up almost 500,000, the unemployment rate fell, the work week was stable.

it looks really good right now. it's a good number, no question. >> a good number, but is it too good for rate cuts? >> today's good job numbers are direct rebuke to the false narrative that fox is trying to sell its viewers. many of us would like interest rate cuts. but jobs are the bedrock of an economy. the normal human response is to celebrate job creation, not to warn against it. last night during its most unhinged prime time hour, the network brought on former trump administration official and current foxbusiness host larry kudlow, for a segment that simultaneously lied about the strength of the biden economy while also managing to denigrate migrants. we're not going to replay those lies, but the visual seeks for itself. today the president released a statement that read in part, three years ago i inherited an economy on the brink of a with today's report of 300,000 new jobs in march we have passed the milestone of 15 million jobs created since i took

office. unemployment has been under 4% for the longest stretch in more than 50 years. wages are going up. inflation has come down significantly. we've come a long way but i won't stop fighting for hard- working families. joining us now, robert rice, professor of public policy at the university of california and for this conversation, he was the secretary of labor for the clinton administration. good to see you, thank you for being with us. i want a quote, from a goldman sachs report, which says, the u.s. economy doesn't have to choose between strong growth and cooler inflation. we can have both. why? immigration. that was her commentary on the report there in. this immigration conversation is relevant to why this economy is going the way it's going. >> undoubtedly it is. and immigrants are not only important to the economy in terms of an aging economy providing the jobs that the people we need for these jobs, but also it gives us a cushion

against wages pushing against prices, and causing inflation. one of the reasons that we have had a soft landing, and i do think we've had a soft landing, is because of the combination of biden's investments in infrastructure, and other major public goods, at the same time, we've also had a lot of immigrants, and that's been a golden combination for this economy. >> it is a very tough thing, as you know, as a former labor secretary, to achieve. you can't super control the economy, but the idea that there are jobs for people that the wages and those jobs go up at a rate is higher than inflation, those people have money, they spend it, creating business activity, economic activity without out-of-control inflation. that's a very hard soup to mix. >> it's very hard. we are on the way, i hope i don't have to eat these words,

to repealing the business cycle. the combination of what the fed has done, in terms of raising interest rates in a way that fights inflation, combined with major public investments that the biden administration has made, and immigration, seems to be the formula, and maybe it means we don't have to worry as much about inflation or recession. >> i want to put up a screen that shows the jobs created by industry. healthcare is the largest one, that's been very typical for many years, now, growth in healthcare, workers, government leisure and hospitality, construction, retail, other services. i want to, because we have to look back at these things over the years that we've talked, ask you, what's the weak spot in the type of jobs being created? when we have good numbers we start to think about quality. what's your take on the quality

of jobs being created? >> until recently, jobs were not generating very much wage growth, particularly when you considered inflation. inflation was taking away, in whatever wage growth we had. more recently, we find that wages are growing higher and faster than inflation. inflation is down, wages are starting to come up. this is really why consumer sentiment is starting to look as good as it is. in the political context, the question is, do we have a formula that will, over the next seven months, get enough people thinking that the economy is good enough to re- elect joe biden? i think the chances are good. >> what do you worry about in the upcoming months? i know the stock market has done well today, unusual for a stock market to end higher on a day when unemployment is

lawyer, because sometimes investors think that means higher wages and more inflation. the feds trying to figure out what to do, they signaled they're going to cut rates three times this year. market isn't going to should that's going to happen, what's your sense? >> i hope the fed does cut rates, keeping rates high at a time like this, when people still are confronting a housing market where mortgages are very expensive, car loans are very expensive, a lot of the big purchase items, because interest rates are very high, are very high and difficult for people, so i hope the fed does begin to respond to the good news, and also the lower inflation. i think this is a big deal, the fed has and deserves credit as does the biden administration for this soft landing, but i think the fed can do more and should do more certainly over the next six or seven months.

>> to see you as always, thank you for being with us. professor of public policy at uc berkeley, under president clinton. coming up, there is no way forward for no labels, the supposedly bipartisan group's quest for a presidential candidate is over. we'll talk about what third- party candidates left in the race could mean this november, next. race could mean this november, next. it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. (♪♪) and you realize you're in love... steve? with a laundry detergent. (♪♪) gain flings. seriously good scent. salonpas lidocaine flex.

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no labels group has ended its efforts to mount a 2024 presidential candidate, after, by their own admission, failing to find a suitable candidate. a quick disclaimer, as you know i'm from canada, land of universal healthcare, sensible gun laws and a parliamentary system with multiple political parties which often works fairly well in canada. and in other places, too. more choices can be a good thing in politics. in canada, a fairly sane country politically, it has been. but this is america where, like it or not, there's a two-party system and one of those party choices is donald trump. that's the context for this conversation about third parties. with no labels out of the race, the last significant third- party challenger is the independent presidential candidate robert f kennedy junior. the democratic national committee is making sure that voters know who is funding kennedy, and his supposedly independent bid, by airing these ads outside of rfk

fundraisers. >> [ music ] >> it also appears that kennedy is capital riot curious. yesterday kennedy claimed that a fund-raising email calling accused january 6 criminals activists, who have been stripped of their constitutional liberties, was sent in error by a contractor. today, nbc news von hilliard unearthed new sound of kennedy from last spring where he said this. >> me, it's much more serious if we're starting to censor free speech. you can rebuild a capital. >> you can rebuild a? is that his official position for a future insurrectionist mob? he recently announced he's gathered enough signatures to

appear on the ballot in arizona and nevada, two critical states for the biden campaign in 2024. resident biden and his supporters have repeatedly made the case that any vote in the 20 to four election other than a vote for the democratic nominee would be helping donald trump win re-election. but, the biden/harris ticket is also contending with a substantial uncommitted vote. democrats upset with president biden over his handling of the war in gaza, and are using the selection as a protest vote. more than 500,000 americans so far have cast democratic primary votes for uncommitted, and the movement will have a presence at the democratic national convention this summer with at least 26 delegates. the executive director of the grassroots organization move on, who will join us in a moment, said this after the no labels exit from the race. millions of americans are relieved that no labels finally decided to do the right thing to keep donald trump out of the white house.

now it's time for robert kennedy junior to see the writing on the wall that no third-party has a path forward to winning the presidency. we must come together to defeat the biggest threat to our democracy and country, donald trump. joining us now, executive director of move on. thank you for being with us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> let's hit this thing directly. this is a close race. robert kennedy junior is still in it, and could be a spoiler, arguably given his positions he may take more votes from donald trump and joe biden. and then there's this protest vote. where do you think things stand, now? >> robert kennedy junior has the same math and the same path 20 victory in the presidential election that no labels had. no labels just did the right thing this week, that is a great thing for democracy. we expect robert kennedy junior should do the same. there is, as you said at the top of the last moment, there

is no pathway for a third party presidential candidate in this two party system, to secure the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. the only pathway a third-party candidate has in the united states, at the presidential level, is to actually serve as a spoiler. in 2024, we're incredibly worried that robert kennedy will swing the election to donald trump, and nobody in this country needs us to have that ever again. >> there's a campaign effort on three fronts, there is moderates and conservatives and republicans maybe who are frustrated with the idea of the donald trump or the attack on reproductive rights and other freedoms. there are democrats who might not be in favor of some of joe biden's policies were not enthused by him. and then there's this actual protest vote. how do you deal with that last

one? i want to put it up on the screen, michigan and wisconsin. the wisconsin boat, in the last election, joe biden won by 20,000 votes, 48,000 people voted in the protest in the primary. how do you deal with this? >> the situation, or i should say the crisis that is happening in gaza and between israel is catastrophic. it is an atrocity. it is completely understandable that folks are heading to the polls in the primary to vote uncommitted. it has to stop what's happening in gaza must stop. i'm heartened to see that there's a growing consensus in the democratic caucus to really leverage the power the united states has to stop this atrocity. that being said, at the same time, we as voters in the united states have a choice to make this november.

and there's only one of two people that will end up in the white house in 2025. that's either donald trump or joe biden. and we all are very clear, or we should all be very clear donald trump in the white house would not make the situation in the middle east any better. it could be 10 times worse under his leadership. >> while that is most likely true, what do you say, i'm sure you have this conversation with people who say, i hear that to be true, but this is my protest vote, and there's got to be away to hear that, without diminishing the idea that the other guy is going to be worse, because maybe nobody wants the other guy, but there would be some satisfaction with rfk junior being a spoiler, there may be some satisfaction to a bunch of americans to say i prevented him from being re- elected. how do you hear them and make the argument you just made? >> first of all, i completely empathize with the argument. i struggle with this challenge

myself, personally. i want to see things change in the middle east, i want to see u.s. policy change toward the weapon rising of israel to actually commit these atrocities in gaza. i think it's really important that we hear folks and we understand where they're coming from, and yet, we as voters have a strategic choice to make, and the question is, what is the impact we what are vote to make? we cannot shame voters into voting for joe biden. all we can really do is educate and make sure people understand the impact of their vote, and it's really dangerous third- party candidates, like robert kennedy junior out there, saying that they could win the presidency. that is not true. that is false, and he knows it. that's what makes his candidacy even more concerning, as he knows very well, like no labels did, that there is no pathway

for him to actually secure the presidential election. the only thing he can do is play a spoiler in 2024. >> good to talk to you, thank you for joining us this evening. we'll be right back. back. i offer what i can when i can. i started noticing my memory was slipping. i saw a prevagen commercial and i did some research on it. i started taking prevagen abyears ago. i feel clearer in my thoughts, my memory has improved and generally just more on point. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. when migraine strikes are the tradeoffs of treating worth it? ubrelvy is another option, it quickly eliminates migraine pain. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. ask about ubrelvy.

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stomach joining me again this weekend it's in the clock a.m. eastern for my show, tomorrow will have full coverage of the diplomatic face-off between president biden and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. will discuss the ongoing crisis in inside gaza, also joining me

will be the former member of the israeli former israeli foreign minister and the former opposition leader against the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's liquid party. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now, and i will be joining her tonight. >> millions of feeling rattled after him earthquake rocked the northeast this morning. >> the whole thing shook, >> that is the largest quake to hit the state of new jersey in some 250 years. >> special counsel jack smith and judge aileen cannon trading at thinly veiled threats as they square off over donald trump's classified documents case. >> if the judge were to dismiss down the road based on the presidential records act, the case would be over, donald trump would be acquitted. smith's next that could be to seek for