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turning point. how a deadly strike on an aid convoy has changed the course of the war. madeline dean joins us to talk about why she and other lawmakers are asking president biden to put conditions on u.s. military aid to israel. and doctors without border is here to talk about the dangers faced berelief organization. special council jack smith appear to be running out of patience with the judge in donald trump's classified documents case as trump desperately tries to delay his first criminal trial and compares himself to nelson mandela. and agent of chaos, if donald trump wins the white house, he promises a nationwide round up of undocumented immigrants. the center at of both noxious

ideas, steven miller. i'm jonathan capehart and this is the saturday show. tomorrow marks six months since hamas terrorists streamed into israel killing some 1200 people and kidnapping more than 200. in response, israel launched a war on hamas, pounding the gaza strip starting in the north and moving to the south. according to gaza held ministry, more than 33,000 palestinians have been killed since the war began and the united states has stood lock step with israel but we might be at a critical turning point in that relationship in the wake of the israeli air strikes that killed seven aid workers from world central kitchen april 1st. the israel defense force called the strike a grave mistake after its own investigation found that serious errors and

violations of protocol led israeli forces to quote mistakenly assume hamas gunmen were inside the aid vehicles. nbc news has not independently verified that claim. two high ranking members of the israeli military have been dismissed from their posts and three others have been formally reprimanded. world central kitchen says this is an important step forward but it is not enough. humanitarian organization is demanding an immediate independent investigations. the idf cannot credibly investigate its own failure. president biden suggested a showdown was coming during a hot mic moment after his state of the union address last month.

the meeting came in the form of a tense phone call on thursday during which the president underscored the need for an immediate cease fire. biden called the deadly strike on the aid workers unacceptable and for the first time suggested that there could be a shift in u.s. policy unless netanyahu enacts quote a series of specific concrete and measurable steps to address the protection of civilians in gaza. in response, israel has committed to opening additional aid routes that will allow desperately needed aid into northern gaza including the crossing which has been closed since october 7th. and the aid can't come soon enough. the u.n. secretary general is warning gaza is on the brink of mass starvation. the increasing outcry over the humanitarian crisis in gaza has also put a spotlight on u.s. military aid to israel. the united states is by far the

largest supplier of military aid providing more than 130 billion-dollars since the nation's founding in 1948. and now, a growing number of democrats is calling for conditions on that aid. >> i think we are at the point where president biden has said and i have said and others have said if benjamin netanyahu prime minister were to order the idf in rafah at scale, they would drop thousand pound bombs and send in a battalion to go after hamas and make no provisions for civilians, i would coat to condition aid for israel. i have never said that before. >> when we talked about conditions, the bottom line condition has to be full accommodation nor the delivery of humanitarian aid. >> secretary of state antony blinken received a letter signed by more than three dozen

house democrats urging them to reconsider the decision to send an arms package to israel and withhold future transfers until there is an investigation into the air strike that killed the aid workers. my next guest signed that letter. joining me now, democratic congresswoman madeline dean. congresswoman dean, as always, thank you for coming to the saturday show. what kind of conditions do you want placed on aid to israel? >> it is good to be with you. obviously this week, the precise attack killing seven aid workers have provoked extraordinary outrage, anger, disappointment across the board. i'm sure it is true also in israel. we have to start with one thing. the enemy here is hamas. it was hamas who attacked

israel on october 7th. and while we lost these angels as chef jose andres says, do you know we have lost more than 200 other aid workers in gaza in the last six months? i was there in israel twice now. they had lost 147 aid workers. and, the chief, the director sitting in rafah, an american military hero said we have lost more than 147 workers and yet every day, the remaining ones come and work. what do we have to do in terms of conditioning aid? i signed a letter. i'm proud to have signed onto it to say we have to take a look at what aid, what military

munitions are going to israel after all, the use of 2,000- pound dumb bombs in gaza, so inprecise with the inability to take out hold buildings is unacceptable. 33,000 people are dead. it is estimated that one-half of those are children. and israel has not told us the number in that, that is actually hamas. so we have a tremendous number of civilians dead. we have the responsibility and the right, frankly, as congress, as this administration, under the memorandum of security dated february 8th, we have the responsibility of oversight and conditioning aid where military use is not discriminate. >> i have been calling the deadly air strike on world central kitchen a turning point in the u.s. israel relationship and the relationship between president biden and prime

minister netanyahu. am i overstating here? >> i'm not sure. i have to say i'm very proud of the president. i spoke with the white house the morning this week. and we have heard from the read- out that this was a very tough phone call. the number of deaths and the deaths of innocent civilians, and aid workers. a temporary cease fire to get the hostages out. i called for a bilateral cease fire to get the hostages out and humanitarian aid in. to mr. netanyahu, mr. netanyahu enabled your negotiators, your hostage negotiators to get the hostages out immediately. it baffles me, you noted that

tomorrow will mark six months since this horrendous attack. i saw evidence of it as i visited israel. but how is it that mr. netanyahu has not been focused singularly on the release of the hostages? >> congresswoman, last question for you on this, speaking of the prime minister. member of his work cabinet has called for early elections. for september. is a change in leadership in israel what is needed to bring an end to this war? >> i'm a member of one government. it is not on me to tell israeli citizens what to do. but i see on the streets the pictures you are showing right now. mr. netanyahu's prosecution of this war, we can all observe, has been indiscriminant had not been clear. and i am very critical of the prosecution of this war.

importantly, palestinians need to have elections. we need ultimately jonathan, i know you know this and mr. netanyahu is not interested in it. a two-state solution. the region cries for a two- state solution. for dignity and sovereignty for two peoples. that is what has to happen. and i bet that has to happen by way of elections. both in israel and in gaza. and in palestine. let's not forget the west bank. >> congresswoman madeline dean, thank you for coming to the saturday show. and joining me now, avril benoit, the executive director of doctors without borders. thank you for comeing to the show. you told us how some members of your own organization have been killed in gaza which is why you said the attack on world central kitchen is not an isolated incident. talk about the dangers on the ground for humanitarian workers. >> we have felt from the beginning that nowhere in gaza is safe and yes, five of my

colleagues from doctors without borders were killed. some of them at home or trying to survive with their families outside of the workplace. we have experienced ourselves working in hospitals that were not militarized, full of patients who desperately needed ongoing health care. life saving assistance. we have seen those hospitals attacked time and again. hospitals should be a haven. hospitals are protected under the geneva preventions. hospitals are absolutely essential for people to survive in a war like this and one after the other, they are being taken out. and it has reached the point now where there are so many patients, so few hospital beds, so few operating theaters that the situation in the hospitals that are trying to continue to

function is absolutely chaotic. >> the idf says they mistakenly assumed hamas gunmen were inside the aid vehicles. do you buy that? and i raise that question because the washington post has a front page story about how aid workers have been complaining for months about how broken the system is for coordinating with defense forces so that they can deliver the humanitarian aid they are trying to get delivered. >> yeah. hard for me to of course say what what they had in mind when they picked those particular targets. in our experience, though, this whole notion is not really applying in gaza. not since the beginning. it is hollow. our own experience is that it is more of a notification system. we let the authorities know. this part of the government, you let them know where you are

going to be working, where staff will be sheltering. the hospitals you are supporting, where the ambulances are going. they acknowledge receipt of the notifications. and, that's it. so from our perspective, there is never a sense of safety. and we have experienced with all the attacks on medical infrastructures time and again that what happened to world central kitchen of course is horrific and we are as outraged and filled with grief and horror over what happened to them. we have also seen this happen to many other organizations, not to mention the kind of attacks that have happened to other civilian infrastructures around the gaza strip. >> avril benoit, thank you for coming to the saturday show. and coming up, we will break down donald trump's losing streak in court this week. and even though his legal team is playing the long game on

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get the real deal with xfinity internet today, and get fast speeds and a reliable connection to all your devices in the home —even when everyone is online. this week, donald trump's delay tactics failed in three different legal cases. in florida and georgia, judges refused to drop charges. and in new york, the court declined to postpone his hush money trial. the twice impeached four times indicted former president is now asking the judge in the hush money trial to step down. less than two weeks before the trial starts. good luck with that. this is the second time trump has called for judge juan merchon's recusal. and he is talking about the bond he posted in the fraud

case. the new york attorney general letitia james wants to know what he used as collateral. and then there is the showdown between special counsel jack smith and trump's florida judge. while judge aileen cannon didn't throw out the charges this week, smith says she is giving trump an unfair advantage in trial. in a fiery filing, he accused her. smith warned that cannon is operating on a quote fundamentally flawed legal premise and threatened to appeal to a higher court to have her removed from the case. it would appear the special council is making we say don't make me put my baby down. joining us now, barbara mcquaid. cohost of the hash tag sisters

in law podcast and author of the book attack from win. thank you for being here. how would the special council actually get cannon removed from trump's case? >> i think we are a few phases away from that actually happening but they are in this little showdown about whether donald trump could raise this defense of the presidential records act which is absolute legal nonsense. it is not a defense here whatsoever and i think what jack smith wants the judge to do is make a decision on this issue so that if he wants to appeal he could do that. the government cannot appeal. so the judge did deny donald trump's motion to dismiss the case on that basis, but what she said that is still concerning is that donald trump may be able to raise this again as a defense at trial. and i think jack smith will have a problem with that, too. so i don't think this little battle is over just yet. >> do you expect him to follow through on his threat? >> i think the next thing, if i

were in issues, the next thing i would do is file a motion to preclude any reference whatsoever to the presidential records act. and then she has to make a decision on that. if she rules against him, then i think that is where he raises an appeal and possibly a request to the court to remove her. >> now let's turn to trump's civil fraud case. what can the new york attorney general do if the bond seems sketchy? >> the judge has to approve this so what she is raising here is who is this don hankey from california who has never been registered to provide an appeal bond in the state of new york anyway? i think she is properly calling out, who is this. let's make sure this is somebody legit and the court will make a finding about this. as long as the court determines that everything is in order i think this will go through, but i think she is properly making sure the responsibility she has to represent the people of new york is doing the appropriate

scrutiny it should. >> trump has been lashing out all day. he is saying he is willing to be jailed like nelson mandela. could trump's posts today, all of them, lead to an even stricter gag order? >> you know, they could, jonathan, but i think this is the kind of stuff that the judge is allowing him to say, if it is simply sort of political speech that isn't targeting anybody in particular, i think the judge will give him a lot of lee way to say this. what the gag order tries to preclude is doing anything that might intimidate witnesses or call into question the motives of the parties here. i think this kind of thing is probably going to be allowed to pass. >> barbara mcquaid, thank you for what seems to be a

lightning round conversation. thank you for coming to the saturday show. up next, the battle for campaign cash. mar-a-lago tries to chip away at his fund raising deficit following president biden's lucrative city event. what these new numbers mean for the candidates after the break. the candidates after the break. introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. she thinks her flaky gray patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis allison! over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea,

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in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. tonight, donald trump will try to make up fund raising ground between his campaign and president biden's which is way ahead. the disgraced former president is headlining a blow-out benefit gala at the palm beach home of paulsen. he has commitments totaling $50 million tonight. the florida fundraiser comes nearly a week after president biden's block buster event at radio city music hall where he raked in more than $26 million.

but trump still has a long way to go in the overall money race. today, the biden campaign and dnc announced that they raised $90 million in march with the campaign ending the month, get this, $192 million cash on hand. in contrast, trump and the rnc combined to raise $65 million in march. ending the month with just $93 million cash on hand. a hundred million dollars gap. in an ad released today, he highlighted a crucial difference between his campaign donors and donald trump's. >> this is scranton versus palm beach. a grass roots campaign of teachers, firefighters, nurses, and cops. versus donald trump and a couple of billionaires looking for a tax cut. real people who know the stakes of this election and are rolling up their sleeves to pitch in what they can. they are making a real

difference, folks. >> even while running for reelection, president biden is focused on running the country. in baltimore yesterday, he called on congress to fully fund the rebuilding of the francis scott key bridge which collapsed last week. biden's call will almost certainly set up a fight with the chaotic house gop, the house republican mayorty that can't figure out how to handle funding for ukraine. joining me, brandon buck, he served as chief communications adviser for paul ryan and press secretary to john boehner. and amisha cross, a former adviser for the obama campaign. the right wing freedom caucus is demanding steep concessions to rebuild the bridge in baltimore including any spending to be fully offset, will the republicans really play politics over something

this vital to the nation's economy? >> the freedom caucus is making those demands and they will be ignored. at the end of the day, this is something that is absolutely going to happen. >> i mean, let's talk fund raising. the biden campaign right now has a huge money lead over the trump campaign. what should they be doing most, spending most of that money on, the biden folks? >> georgia. we know that the biden folks are in this game to win it. we know that the battleground states are shaping up very interestingly and some are a little bit too close for comfort. i would put georgia as number

one. just because the recognition is that from the urban centers to the rural areas. there has to be boots on the ground and strong outreach to young people and black voters. this campaign is really sizing up its staff in various places across the country, i would say they have announced the new political director in georgia. there are several positions that need to be filled in that place. you need to go all in on georgia if you want in. >> i would have to come back to that. this emphasis on georgia is a whole block all by itself. but brandon, the new york times published an editorial today calling on congress to pass more aid to ukraine saying that it will likely sail through the house and senate with bipartisan support. but, speaker johnson's job is in jeopardy. if he brings it up for a vote. so, brandon, what's he going to

do? >> marjorie taylor greene threatening the motion to vacate, that was entirely about ukraine. sending the signal if you do this, i'm coming after you. which is all the more reason for mike johnson to do it. he needs democrats to save his job at some point. marjorie taylor greene can't just keep this in her pocket. if you want democrats to be there for you, you have to work with them, bring up the thing you know is the right thing to do. i think mike johnson has been surprisingly open about how he thinks this is the right thing to do so he'll have a lot of pressure. we will learn about if he is willing to stiff arm her. but i am still somewhat confident he will put it on the floor. she will put up a motion to vacate and she will lose and that will be really good for the house. >> brandon from your lips to god's ears. amisha, let's turn our attention to the back and forth between president biden and israeli prime minister benjamin

netanyahu. do you think the president's change in tone with the israeli prime minister will win him favor with members of the democratic coalition who have been outraged over the u.s.' support of israel and its war with hamas? >> it will make them warmer. at least the members of the democratting flank. this is a tough situation. one that no president will want to be in. however, there is nothing, there is no carrot that president biden can give to bibi netanyahu to make him want to up end this war. he said he is against a two state solution. he is full speed ahead trying to take palestinians off the map. this is something that he is basically violating international law and he is absolutely fine doing so. but i do think the death of the aid workers has really changed the tone here and it has put a spotlight on something that a lot of advocates have been calling on president biden to

do for a while. i am very thankful for the posturing he is taken and i am hopeful at some point, this is not the first. there will be restriction to the funding. it appears we are funding a war that is literally killing thousands of innocent civilians. >> more than 196 aid workers who have been killed. real quickly, because we are out of time. i have to catch up on this. earlier this week, house republicans put forth a bill that would rename washington dulles' airport after donald trump. and house democrats responded by introducing a bill that would rename a federal prison in florida after trump. real fast, what do you make of that? >> there was a time the house was considered the greatest delivering body in the worldment it is time for democrats and republican to grow up a little bit and have some self-respect because this is just another terribly embarrassing thing for the

house of representatives. >> amisha? >> absolutely. at this point, i don't think that the house republicans can't get any worse. so this renaming is very interesting to me. baa again, they have been playing jokes this entire time. and all they will do is pay for it at the ballot box. november is not only a vote for biden or trump, it is also one for the house. >> right. right. and i'm just saying this. they changed the name of that airport, i don't know if i could go to dulles ever again. and i love it architecturally. but anyway, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. next, an alarming new report on how donald trump wants to institute stronger anti-racism protections for white people. how he want to do it and who is behind the strategy? don't go anywhere. behind the strategy? don't go anywhere. you're just gonna stand there? or are ya gonna take your lawn back. we're gonna take it back. we're gonna take it back. with scotts turf builder triple action!

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if reelected. especially when it comes to race and immigration. on the campaign trail, trump has falsely accused migrants of a quote border blood bath and uses dehumanizing language when he talks about them. >> they are sending prisoners, murders, drug dealers, mental patients and terrorists. the worst they have in every country all over the world. the democrats say please don't call them animals they're humans. i said no, they're not humans, they're animals. >> trump and his allies are also threatening to carry out mass deportations, use migrant detention camps and potentially bring back the zero tolerance policy that put children in cages. this week, trump attend add gala for the director of the family separation program and hasn't ruled out reinstating it. and while trump's attacks on asylum seekers are certainly racist, there is so much more. have you heard about his plans to uplift only white people? axios reports that trump wants the justice department to roll

back protections for people of color to focus on discrimination against whites. trump's allies have already been testing this anti-dei framework in court and managed to block billions in pandemic relief for women and minority owned businesses. there is one master mind behind this. his name isn't donald trump. meet steven miller. the former donald trump adviser and extremist. joining me now, jolani cobb. a staff writer for the new yorker and dean of the columbia journalism school. also, jean guerrero, the author of hate monger. thank you both for coming to the saturday show. jean, help us to understand steven miller's ideology. what is his vision for america?

>> his vision is a white nationalist america and this agenda you described is something he has been dreaming about for a very long time. in my book i trace how he was radicalized as a teenager by far right provocateurs who believe racism against black and brown people was not a problem and that the real problem in american society was racism against whites. this is an idea that originated with white supremacists like david duke who in the 1970s was calling white men the quote real second class citizens in america. but while back then, it was largely rejected and fringe, in 2024, it is mainstream gop politics thanks to steven miller. >> and miller's law firm released this ad in october, 2022. listen to this. >> when did racism against white people become okay? progressive corporations, airlines, universities, all openly discriminate against white americans.

racism is always wrong. the left's anti-white bigotry must stop. we are all entitled to equal treatment under law. >> the floor is yours. >> well, i mean it is interesting. i would point your viewers to a body of scholarly work that examines these very questions about the ways in which anti- discrimination policy can be utilized against the group that has historically been subject to discrimination. and for the group that has historically benefited. critical race theory. this is a textbook example of this very thing. i do want to make one point about the earlier question which is that this is part of a much older tradition. this is the mythology of the lost cause. how confederates after the end of the civil war envision

themselves. fought a war for the right to buy, sell, rape, abuse, traffic and exploit human beings envision themselves as the victims. that came about in the immediate aftermath of the war. now if you look at the debates of the 1964 civil rights act, one of the more notable things you hear is this same strain. southern legislator after southern legislator gets up and says that they are opposed to discrimination and therefore, they cannot support the 1964 civil rights act. because they believe it discriminates against white people. this is not a novel development. >> i was going to jump to immigration. an immigration question. but given what he just said, i'm wondering how has miller been preparing to overhaul the justice department? >> well primarily through his america first legal non-profit

which has focused on dismantling programs meant to benefit underrepresented and marginalized communities. programs benefiting black farmers or women owned and minority owned restaurants. and my prediction is that in a second trump term, based on everything that miller has been doing, we would not only see the department of justice weaponnized to dismantle affirmative action programs benefiting people of color across the country. affirmative action >> it would be a march, no question. rear guard. what would happen would be a kind of open season for any kind of equitable policy or

practice. anything that has addressed the legacy and impact of unequal treatment of inequality, discrimination, and so on. would be vulnerable in that regard. and so, that's what that world would look like. >> and steven miller would be at the center of it all. thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. and coming up, the politics of faith. why some white evangelicals are facing a crisis in the age of donald trump. and sara talks about why she left the religion of her youth and why others are doing the same. stay with us. same. stay with us. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have

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presidential rallies. it is in response to transgender day of visibility which fell on easter this year. he called it quote a total disrespect to christians. trump thinks christians need a day of visibility because they are so invisible? he is playing to christians. but for some, it was the tipping point for them to leave. my next guest describes the disillusionment they felt, writing feelings of shock and anger that the same leaders who ordered us to remain sexually pure until marriage and who condemned bill clinton's moral failings in the 1990s would not only tolerate but embrace and promote trump. joining me now to talk about her new book sarah, author of

the ex-vangelicals. cohost on the npr politics podcast. thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. so, what are your thoughts on trump's religious messages during his rallies and this call for christian visibility day? >> that call was in response to trans visibility day. it happened to fall on easter sunday this year. and some conservative christians said it was an attack on their faith though it was a coincidence. trump's call for christian visibility day is part of a much longer history of rhetoric aimed at evangelical christians. white christians are a shrinking part of the pop youlation, but a major voting block for republicans and have been for a long time. white evangelicals are one of the most reliable voting blocks for republicans, trump knows that and he tailors his messages to them who many times since this erosion of their

cultural dominance. >> why do you think evangelicals support trump in spite of his personal and legal history that my washington post columnist charactersize as a the seven deadly sin s? >> one is just pragmatic. he promises to deliver for white evangelicals. overturning roe v. wade. they are the religious group most opposed to abortion rights and that have been a rallying cry for decades. trump promised to do that and succeeded. so they see him as someone who has delivered and will continue to deliver on their goals.

and they see him with messaging like that. the trump bible we talked about. when he went on truth social. with this rhetoric of a declining america as a declining christian nation. bring christianity back. they see him as someone who will deliver on their goals and someone who is a champion of their movement regardless of his moral behavior. polling suggests most who support him don't think he is a very religious person. but that is not they primary concern. >> right. you also mentioned many ex- evangelicals showing relief after giving up the struggle to affirm doctrines that violate their deepest intuitions. can you tell us about this feeling and is the feeling, did this inspire you to write your

book? >> this is happening in the context of the larger religious decline across the board. but evangelicalism, white catholics are pretty 50/50 republicans and democrats. white evangelicals overwhelmingly vote republican. so this movement is particularly salient. i talk in the book about my own experience and the experiences of lots of other people. there are a host of reasons. some have to do with the way their churches talk about women and the lgbtq. it is about the process of rethinking what you believe and figuring out who you want to be in the world. >> what do you home people will

get? >> i hope people will resonate and feel seen and it hope it will provide new insight into what the culture is like. >> i'm going to crack the binding on my copy as soon as this show is over. sarah, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> and we'll be back with more of the saturday show on msnbc. i know what it's like to perform through pain. if you're like me, one of the millions suffering from pain caused by migraine, nurtec odt may help. it's the only medication

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and that will do it for me, thank you for watching. be sure to tune in tomorrow to the sunday show, when congressman row, and gerry connolly of virginia join us live in studio to preview big funding decisions next week when the house returns, including aid to ukraine and israel with speaker mike johnson's job on the line. les, i'll also speak with congress woman barbara lead to get her take on florida's major developments on abortion rights, and how it could all play out in november's election, tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. all us on x, instagram, and threads, you can also catch clips of the show on youtube. up next, sean carroll, the head of a humanitarian aid group in gaza, about the future of their efforts after the attack on a world central kitchen convoy. >> good evento