swing states, that's certainly a place where you can see some of the support siphon off. >> the polls had real misses in recent cycles, but this is a fascinating piece. stephen shepherd for politico, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. former president trump compared himself in a truth social post over the weekend to the late south african president nelson mandela. if there is anything truth social users hate, it's when you make them google something. former president trump attended a fundraiser over the weekend at the home of john paulson with melania trump, where she finally got to meet an annual billionaire. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 9th.

donald trump is running out of options to delay his hush money trial. we'll have expert legal analysis on the last-ditch effort by his legal team days before jury selection is supposed to start. meanwhile, several retired generals, admirals, and former top defense officials are calling on the supreme court to reject trump's immunity claim in the election interference case. we'll go through that stark warning. and uconn is celebrating back-to-back national titles after another domination last night. >> just a dominating performance, willie. >> it was. it was a dominating win. 75-60 was the final score. back-to-back national championships for dan hurley and the program he's built at uconn. the word dominant has to be underscored here, john. they won by an average of 23 points a game in this tournament. >> wow. >> all of their wins were by double digits. in fact, all their wins in last

year's tournament were by double digits. we've not seen this before. the strategy last night was to give zach edey, the superstar player of the year for purdue, his points. he scored 37 points. effectively, no one else did. that was the strategy. they only made one three-pointer, purdue. they were the second best three point shooting team in the country, made one last night. hurley's strategy pays off. uconn goes back-to-back. >> edey got 37. the rest of the team combined for 23. it's not getting it done. you're right, this was a drama-free championship game last night. they grabbed control a few minutes to go in the first half. the second half, they cruised to victory. congratulations to uconn. as someone growing up in new england in the '80s and '90s, you never would have expected that storrs, connecticut, would be, the home for the dominant men's and women's sports. final four. they did it again. they were, without question, the best team all year and deserving

champions. >> wire to wire, best team wins. no cinderella in the tournament, just like the women's game, when south carolina finished their 38-0 undefeated season. we got the ratings for the south carolina/iowa national championship game. 18.7 million people watched that game. >> wow. >> it was the single most watched basketball game, ib colluding men's, women's, and the nba, in the last five years. >> can you believe that? >> outstripping all sports expect the nfl, the olympics, and the major events like that. that number could go up today. that was the preliminary report. it peaked at 24 million people watching that game. just, again, underscoring an incredible, important season, a watershed season led by south carolina and, of course, caitlin clark in the game. >> so very cool. 18.7 million, almost as much as "way too early." that's what lemire clocks in. >> olympics, world cup, "way too early." >> exactly. wte is what the kids call it.

you know what people watched a lot, as well? >> what's that? >> the eclipse. you and i, we had the glasses on. >> sending us pictures. >> we were waiting. we love this thing. >> we were kind of grumpy about it, and people said, mika, one picture in the middle of the day went, look at this. she's looking and going, what is this, like a toilet bowl? >> stop it. no, that is not what i said. >> sweetie, it's the eclipse. >> no, this total solar eclipse was incredible. people got together. they were excited about it. there were eclipse parties. >> why do you care so much now, when, yesterday, you were mocking it? >> no, i was not. i just think it's a great kind of sense of community that the eclipse brought together. it's kind of a fascinating thing. i love the reaction that animals have, too. >> yeah. >> they all went to bed. >> that's what we were thinking. >> so cute. animals, it's about the animals. >> curious. >> willie, i will say, you know,

because, well, we are hermits, we don't know that people get together and do things. so when we heard that this was a big communal thing -- >> that's nice. >> -- you know, of course, our big-hearted ep, alexalex, is teg us it was moving -- >> you know you have a problem. >> if alex is more moved than you are on anything, time to look in the mirror. >> look at this, cool. >> it's a good, communal thing. of course, yeah, so exciting, all the people. >> have to wait 20 years for another one. >> a lot of people on new york city rooftops, one of the rare moments when the city stops. across the country, they were doing it. i, sadly, was not in the path of totality, a term i love and learned 48 hours ago. >> the path of totality. >> as usual, the real heros are the headline writers at "the new york post." this morning, they tell us, "america mooned." >> pretty good. >> i will say, jonathan, even for the cynic, it was very cool.

christine and i went, got our glasses, the free ones at warby parker, looked up there. didn't get the full totality thing, but it was special. to know the kids at schools across the country were standing and looking at the same thing, very cool. >> my kids raced home after school. we all went up to the roof, put our glasses on, watched it. it was cool. the communal event, it's rare. we watch our different things. it is rare a single event -- >> on our phones. >> yes. -- we all came together. the footage from the areas in the totality is remarkable, how quickly things got dark, the temperature dropped. really special. now, we have a few decades to wait until the next one. >> exactly. the thing is, though i will say, all my friends were sending pictures. i was saying, this goes by so fast, and you're on your phone taking a picture? you missed it. >> just watch it. >> you don't have to be a grumpy

grandma. look at this, this is magic. >> yes, it is. >> look at that. speaking of magic, with us this morning, we have pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. >> magic. >> look at this, congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany is with us. >> wow. >> and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. >> now, this is something. this lineup is something. >> magic, yeah. this is like the eclipse. >> hold on a second. take a picture. no, please don't. just send it to me, right here. i'll put my glasses on. >> holy cow. let's get to the top story. >> okay. >> we have a lot to get to this morning. >> hold on. >> oh, joe. >> donald trump is facing backlash from both sides of the aisle for his position on abortion, mika. >> so early. yup, after months of teasing a statement, trump spoke about the issue yesterday in a four-minute video posted to truth social.

this is donald trump talking about abortion. here is part of it. >> many people have asked me what my position is on abortion and abortion rights, especially since i was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars, both sides, wanted and, in fact, demanded be ended. roe v. wade. they wanted it ended. it must be remembered that the democrats are the radical ones on this position because they support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month. the concept of having an abortion in the later months and even execution after birth, and that's exactly what it is, the baby is born, the baby is executed after birth, is unacceptable. almost everyone agrees with that. my view is now we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states

will determine by vote or legislation, or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. many states will be different. many will have a different number of weeks or some will have more conservative than others, and that's what they will be. at the end of the day, this is all about the will of the people. now, it's up to the states to do the right thing. like reagan, i'm for exceptions for the life of the mother and rape. you must win elections to restore our culture. >> willie, there's so many thing things wrong with this. so many lies. first of all, some of the most obvious lies, willie. he says all legal scholars thought roe v. wade should have

been overturned. that's not true. it's a huge lie. a small number of legal scholars thought that. there were many legal scholars across the spectrum that said it wasn't the most well-reasoned decision, but they weren't calling for the overturning of roe v. wade. more importantly, he talked about the will of the people. you can just look. i said this before. just look across the decades. one poll after another poll, when you ask people, do you want roe v. wade to be overturned, it's like 30%, 31%, 32%. it's always a radical minority. in the case of, to you want roe v. wade to stay in place? the number was 70%, 71%, 72% when the supreme court overturned it. that's false. he talks about the will of the people. what's so shocking here is, when you only have a third of the people wanting to overturn a

constitutional precedent, you know, of 49, 50 years, that's a radical move. and, of course, the biggest lie out of all of that is the idea that democrats are running around wanting babies to be executed after birth. >> i mean, it's so stupid, it's difficult to get -- i mean, he's just so stupid. >> it's stupid. we had a republican on this show. not going to name his name, and neither is mika, where we were pressing and asking, how many abortions are performed in the third trimester? how many? i don't know, i don't know. well, you don't know because it's, like, next to zero. but donald trump lies, lies. i saw something talking about the fact that donald trump last week said that joe biden snorted cocaine before the state of the

union address. now, that would have been on the front page of "the new york times," "the washington post," "the wall street journal," every other newspaper in america if he -- if anybody else, any other candidate running for president had said something so crazy. everybody just blew past it. he's allowed to give these abortion statements, where he is lying through his teeth constantly, and people will try to make him sound like a normal candidate. oh, trump came out saying that he's a champion of federalism and wants to keep it in the state level. he's for -- no, you have to talk about the crazy lies which is what the guy is doing every day and what he did in this speech. by the way, even though he was lying through his teeth constantly about abortion, he ended up pissing off people on both sides. >> yeah, let him keep talking. >> he did. obviously, democrats didn't like what he said. pro-life republicans hated what he said. they want a national abortion

ban. he said nothing about that. he said, my hands are clean of this now. it's a states' rights issue. that is the statement you get, the one we just heard from former president trump, when you are completely unprincipled on something, when you were pro-choice, by his own words. he was pro-choice for a very long time. hen he got into politics, decided it'd be avantageous to run as an republican, be pro-life. he's been all over the place. remember the exchange with chris matthews in 2016. chris said, should a woman who gets an abortion be published? gears are turning. what do conservatives think? yes, women should be punished. so he doesn't quite believe anything on this, or maybe he is pro-choice. he unleashed this. let's be clear, gene robinson. donald trump has taken credit for and bragged about appointing the three supreme court justices who got rid of roe versus wade. this was an achievement for him, for his supporters, for people who wanted this for 50 years. now that he's seen the fallout from that, the political

consequences, he is trying, somehow, to have it both ways and mitigate the political damage, saying, we have to win elections, so be careful what you do in the states. i did this, i caused this, but i don't love what i'm seeing because of it. be careful what you do in the states. all over the place yesterday. >> all over the place. he came out with a statement that makes nobody happy. you're absolutely right, let me endorse what joe was saying about the lies and how we just sort of blow past the accusations of infanticide and all this crazy stuff he comes out with. but, in the end, he came down on a position that, obviously, pro-choice americans aren't going to like, and that pro-life americans hate and started hating on immediately. there were pro-life groups talking about how disappointed

they were with this. lindsey graham of all people came out. >> oh, my. >> lindsey supports a 15-week national abortion ban. he came out and said he respectfully disagrees with trump. trump spent the whole rest of the afternoon just, you know, filleting the skin of lindsey graham and going after him in a vicious way that he hasn't done in a while, at least since the last time he filleted lindsey graham. but that was some years ago. he just went nuts. very touchy on this. i think this may have some of the timing of this and everything may have something to do with florida, the fact that abortion is going to be on the ballot in florida, a state that donald trump has to win. you know, every time, every place abortion has been on the ballot in this country,

including states that are redder than florida, citizens have voted to enshrine apportion rights in their state constitutions. >> every time. >> you know, they'll probably do that in florida, too. >> yeah. >> every time. look at the states. kentucky, kansas, wisconsin, ohio. every time it has been remotely, remotely a part of an election or a ballot measure, the pro-choice side wins overwhelmingly. >> support for abortion was grow growing the last decade. since the overturning of roe, it's crystallized the issue for anybody on the fence. any men, perhaps, who didn't feel as connected with it. now, we are seeing the consequences of these rights being taken away.

50 years of rights our daughters and sons as families don't have. they're brutal and very specific. they're a matter of life and death. donald trump is on the wrong side of every position that exists practically on this. in a moment, we're going to show you -- >> can i go to charlie on this before we go to the lindsey clips? >> oh, yes, okay. >> charlie, mika is right, there are so many people now who are -- that were pro-life before dobbs that now understand the importance of roe because of the radicalism in the states. it cost me nothing to just take the position, yeah, i'm pro-life, because there was that right there. when i formulated my thoughts over it, the governors were

like, mitt romney in massachusetts, jeb bush in florida, and the thought was, well, you know, maybe it'll be 15, 16, 17 weeks with exceptions. that's just not the world we live in anymore. i must say, this is post dobbs, and you look and see the radicalism of these old, white, fat men in mississippi or somewhere else that are driving women out of medical care. because they want to appeal to the most extreme elements of their base. yeah, there are a lot of people, and i'd guess you're like me, there are a lot of people who have really been transformed by the radicalism of the last three, four years. >> well, it is interesting watching donald trump. as willie pointed out, you know, the first thing you need to understand about him is that he is completely unprincipled on

this issue. he doesn't like it and is very, very worried about what you're describing, about the political fallout. he is trying to neutralize an issue that cannot be neutralized. so, you know, this is one of those rare moments where leaving aside the lies, you can see his thought process. he doesn't want a national ban. he wants to make sure they support the exceptions for rape, incest, the health of the mother. wants to reassure people about ivf. but, you know, now he's in this position where, you know, on the one hand, he wants to claim credit for overturning roe versus wade. on the other hand, you know, the pro-life movement, the reaction was deep disappointment. what he is counting on, and he is probably right, is people like lindsey graham and the pro-life movement will simply roll over. they will say, okay, we're disappointed with this, but we're still going to support it. he's taking them for granted.

i guess the question is, in this mind, he thinks he is taking the lead bad option, the most pragmatic option. but, as you point out, i think the politics of this have changed. it is very unpredictable. he is worried about it. polls would indicate where the trend is going. now, he's thinking he's taken it off the table, but he'll turn it around and talk about how radical the democrats are. what is his first opening gambit? democrats want to execute babies after birth. it is so extreme, ludicrous, it's eye rolling, but that's his first play. >> he seems uncomfortable in the statement because he is confused by it himself, which doesn't surprise me. there's so many underlying factors as to why he is confused or conflicted by it, i'll say that. >> you look at wisconsin, where

charlie is from. 50/50. a lot of catholics in wisconsin. they had a judge's race that everybody there knew, conservatives knew, liberals knew, would shape the future of the supreme court there. because, again, because of abortion, it was a landslide victory. a landslide victory for a very liberal judge who, most likely, would have been in a very tight race but for the issue of abortion. >> by upending roe, donald trump undermined the health care of women across the country, and for their families to see that happening, playing out in real time, everybody now knows that it is more than whatever donald trump tried to -- it's so stupid, i can't even repeat it. i won't. it's the last ditch effort to hold on to the issue by saying something about abortion

happening in the ninth month, which it doesn't. we're talking about terminations, health care. >> that never happens. what does happen is six-week bans right now. there are total bans. look at texas, the law is getting more extreme. you're talking about bounties now, the discussion of bounties. jackie alemany, he can try to paint democrats as extremes by lying about babies being executed but it's a lie. numbers don't hold up. what people do see in their lives every day is they see people having to make difficult decisions. they read about women denied health care, being put in the most horrible of positions.

the biden campaign is effectively running ads of some of the women who, unlike donald trump's lies, have suffered because trump, quote, terminated roe v. wade. >> yeah, joe. if you want to look at the mission already, look at in vitro fertilization and what donald trump's decision caused to this important reproductive support system for women who are struggling to conceive. my heart is actually beating a little bit more than usual right now because i'm someone who just has gone through ivf. and the fact that women are now faced with this issue in the states, where you have, you know, people who initially were in support of overturning roe v. wade, and now have come out, these house republicans, saying they're in support of it and that this wasn't what they had, you know, initially intended when it came to seeping to

different parts of trying to legislate reproductive rights, but, again, it's been kicked to the states. the republican-controlled legislatures are now passing these laws that are restricting access. whether in small ways or big ways, they are things that are causing paralysis among health care providers in states worried about the legal repercussions of going against some of the legal turmoil that's playing out in congress, regardless of whether or not donald trump wants to take ownership of this or whether, again, he's deciding to punt it to the states, wait until he gets to the presidency, and see what that again unleashes and whether or not house republicans or republicans in the senate, depending on what happens this november, decide to bring an abortion ban to the floor to take a vote on it.

that is when this decision, you know -- you need to look at donald trump's past when it comes to what he says and what actually happens when something gets put on his desk and he is faced with what is most politically expedient for him to do at the time. >> jackie is one of many, many people in the country worried about ivf, given the signals we've heard from parts of the country, across the political spectrum. ivf is popular no matter what party you vote for. jonathan, let's talk about the white house response to this. they watched the video, the mush of an argument that donald trump made that wasn't really an argument. what was their response to it? >> they've been waiting for this moment for a while. within minutes of trump putting out that video, the biden campaign already clipped the piece of footage where trump said he was proud to have appointed the supreme court justices who overturned roe v. wade. that ad went up instantly.

we also heard from the president himself. he spoke about it in a video they put out a short time later. the biden campaign pushed media outlets on their framing of what trump said, suggesting, no, he wasn't just punting to the states, he was deferring to the states. 14 states which have a total ban on abortions and others could be coming. suggesting, look, he is saying he'd support this. also noting, he did not, nowhere in the statement did he rule out signing a national ban were it to come to his desk if the republicans were to win both houses of congress come november or beyond. of course, there was a powerful ad with a texas woman talking about her own story. we'll show that later this morning. the biden campaign knows this is a really powerful issue. it hits home for a lot of families, not just women, across the country. they note abortion is undefeated at the ballot box since roe v. wade was overturned. they're going to lean heavily on this, joe and mika, between now

and november. sometimes in gut-wrenching stories who are relatable, particularly for suburban women who decide elections. >> from atlanta to milwaukee. speaking of milwaukee and wisconsin, charlie sykes, i sent that if tim russet were here, he'd hold up a white board and say, it's all about wisconsin, wisconsin, wisconsin. i'm wondering, how does this play in wisconsin? how much of an impact will it have on whether wisconsin goes for biden or trump? >> as usual, wisconsin will be on a knife's edge. every election is decided by 20,000 votes. you mentioned the supreme court election that took place last year. that was a referendum on abortion. it would normally -- it was one of those elections that conservatives would normally have a pretty significant edge because of the turnout in vote. yet, it was an overwhelming

landslide. this is an issue that is absolutely toxic for republicans. in wisconsin, republicans have tried to down play the issue. people like legendary governor thompson would say, i'm pro-life, but he's not going to talk about it much and certainly not push through draconian legislation. this is very much a wedge issue, and i think it is probably far more significant in te terms of say, the turnout in places like dane county or young voters that jonathan lemire was talking about on "way too early." it is probably going to be a lot more significant than, say, student loan forgiveness. there are a lot of issues playing, but this right now is probably the number one, single most motivating issue for the democratic base. they've proved that in the supreme court election. >> charlie sykes, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," a lot to get to.

israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says a date has been set for a ground invasion of rafah. this as some world leaders call for an immediate cease-fire in gaza. plus, more than a dozen top defense officials are urging the supreme court to reject donald trump's presidential immunity claim. we'll have the latest on the former president's legal troubles. also this morning, former house speaker nancy pelosi is our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. moving forward with node-positive breast cancer is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence of hr-positive,

her2-negative, node-positive, early breast cancer with a high chance of returning as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an anti-diarrheal , and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm making my own way forward. talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out. splurgy tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive.

oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah this is one of our willow boxes. this is just filled with some of the things that we had started gathering for her while i was pregnant. yep. here's her little baby book. this is the outfit that she was gonna maybe wear home from the hospital. all of these... um, this is... the blanket that she was in.

and these are... her little footprints. it's okay, i know. i'm joe biden and i approve this message.

the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai... ...with a perfect name, a great logo, and a beautiful website. just start with a domain, a few clicks, and you're in business. make now the future at godaddy.com/airo 33 past the hours. cease-fire negotiations between

israel and hamas remain at a deadlock despite the rising optimism voiced by israeli officials. negotiators have left cairo with no deal in sight. hamas says the latest proposal does not meet its demands. the terrorist group wants israel to withdraw its troops from the gaza strip. hamas has not completely rejected the proposal. it says it's still reviewing it and will inform mediators of its official response. meanwhile, israeli prime minister netanyahu says a date has been set to launch a ground offensive in the southern gaza city of rafah. netanyahu made the announcement in a video statement yesterday, saying this is needed to ensure victory over hamas. he did not reveal when the operation will begin. it comes just a day after israeli defense forces withdrew troops from southern gaza's largest city, further shrinking

its presence in gaza. the biden administration has been warning israel to not launch an offensive in rafah, saying it'll worsen the already dire humanitarian crisis. more than a million people have sought refuge in the city, and there is famine and disease spreading. >> let's bring in the president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass, author of "home and away," available on substack. let's start with the basics because we have to start with the basics. sometimes i feel like we jump ahead, and for some people that aren't following daily, they don't get the right message out of it, or there are some people, of course, on the trump right that are just disingenuous and cynical. let's start with principles. october 7th, hamas attacked. they raped. they brutalized. they killed jews in the worst

slaughter since the holocaust. >> still holding hostages. >> they've been holding hostages. this could have ended if they'd released hostages a long time ago. that is a reality. another reality is hamas can never run gaza again, ever. if they aren't completely destroyed, and that'll be extraordinarily difficult, because of their allies around the region, they can't run gaza again. with that as the reality, how is that balanced with the other reality that you can't have another 10,000, 20,000 palestinian civilians killed in gaza in fighting when they're on the verge of famine right now. how are those realities balanced? >> you're right to juxtapose those realities. you have a third, the one of

hostages. that's why you see the competing stories coming out. you have this debate in israel about what should take priority. is it the continued military operations against hamas, or is it to agree to a cease-fire and get hostages out? then the problem is hamas is pushing back against the cease-fire. it has raised demands. there's been one cease-fire pause the last six months for an exchange of hostages and some palestinian political prisoners. as you heard in the opening report that mika read, hamas has raised its requirements. it is now looking not simply for exchanges but it wants an end to israeli occupation. bibi netanyahu is coming under pressure from both sides. those that want him to agree to a cease-fire and those that want him to go ahead with the operation in rafah. then he is getting pressure from joe biden, essentially saying, don't go ahead. you have more than a million palestinians packed into a small part of southern gaza. if you do that, there will be

large numbers of civilian casualties, no matter what. last but not least, netanyahu said he needs to finish the job -- conceptually possible. imagine they go kill several thousand fighters and several thousand civilians. what happens the day after? you have the fundamental question of an occupation, an alienated local population. hamas will come back in some areas or radicalism will rise up. i still don't understand, as they used to say in iraq, how does this end? i don't understand the connection between israeli military action and the idea of leaving something politically you can co-exist with. >> one thing we understand, if israel withdraws, hamas declared victory and are allowed to do whatever they want with the hostages under the tunnels. i understand israel not leaving

gaza until the hostages are secured and hamas is destroyed. one thing i don't quite understand is this idea we have to continue to have a full-scale attack on rafah to get the hostages. that seems to be argument from netanyahu's government. that's not what hostage families are saying. what happens, they go to rafah and get close to the hamas leaders still hiding out in rafah, and the hostages will be killed. there really does have to be a middle way. i know that will enrage the extremists on all sides. but going to rafah and killing 10,000 more civilians and killing more members of hamas, i need someone to explain to me.

i know it makes hamas negotiate in a more effective way, but the actual going in and killing of 10,000 more civilians and getting closer to those hamas leaders that are in rafah, i don't see how that helps facilitate the release of the hostages. >> the reason you don't see it is because it doesn't. i actually think israel has reached something of a fork in the road. it has to decide whether its strategy is hamas first or hostage first. if it is hamas first, whether i agree or not, i tend not to, you'd have a new offensive in southern gaza. if it's hostage first, you would hold off that. you'd try to negotiate something or even, and it is a big decision, you'd have to decide to essentially call off the rest of the military operation. i don't think that's in the cards. israel is caught. the reason you can't see how to balance these two is i don't think you can. israel reached a point where there is a tremendous tension between its military ambitions and its ambitions to get the

hostages out. hamas realizes that, which is why they're hanging tough. >> willie, that's the rub. that is the rub and why israel can't leave gaza until every one of the hostages are released or they are accounted for. that is the rub. there is a wide gap between the bombing of rrafah, killing of 10,000 more civilians, and leaving gaza to hamas. i don't think americans would think that is an option. again, pressure has to be applied to hamas or they'll continue to negotiate in bad faith. willie, we heard it last week, the united states was starting to pressure qatar, a good ally of ours in many ways in the region. the biggest u.s. base in qatar. at the same time, if hamas is

continuing the negotiations, if they're going to walk away from them when they see that 10,000 more civilians aren't going to be killed, we have to pressure qatar and say, listen, you know what? you harbor hamas. you're harboring enemies. you can't harbor them until they release all the hostages. >> that's even complicated, as you've detailed on this show for weeks now. qatar giving money to hamas, as approved three weeks before october 7th by prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> yup. >> to joe's point about hamas being a bad faith actor, which, of course, it is, we're treating hamas as if it is a rational, legitimate state actor, who you can sit across the table from and have a conversation. they're holding hostages. of course, israel is not going to concede anything without getting the hostages back. that's what they want to do. also, they want to eliminate hamas. what is israel supposed to do with somebody across the table who says, not only do we kill

1,200 people in the most brutal ways, some in human history, and take hostages and kill some of them, as well, but we're not going to entertain the idea of giving them back. how is israel supposed to have that conversation? and respect the group across the table? >> i don't have answers. that's why hamas did the way they did. taking hostages was not peripheral to october 7th. it was intrinsic. it looked at the great lengths israel has gone to to get back its people. i would think the best thing is the israelis would hold off quote, unquote, major military operations. they'd go after hamas leaders discreetly, and they'd continue to try to get these hostage, mini deals on hostages. the fact is, they're not rescuing moos tarescue ing hostages militarily. it's not how they've gotten the hostages they've gotten. you get them through deals.

the question is, how? hamas raised requirements for hostage deals. for israelis to say we're going to leave, pull out completely, that'd be a major victory for hamas. yeah, dilemma is overused, but this is a dilemma. best thing, you can try to negotiate these medium, you know, mini deals and hold off massive offensive. again, i worry about a massive offensive because of what it'll do to u.s. and israeli relations, and in alienating the population in gaza and the rest of the arab world. again, this has been part of the israeli problem from the get-go. these large-scale military operations cost israel, in many ways, in addition to whatever it might accomplish. >> richard, you know, i don't think they need to worry about alienating the population of gaza when you look at the pictures and look at what's left of gaza. i wonder, is there any talk or

do you hear about redefining this concept of destroying hamas? i don't understand exactly what they mean by that. kill the commanders, that's fine. surely, they can't imagine that they're wiping out the radicalism that hamas represents in gaza. surely, they're increasing that, the israelis, with the way they've conducted this invasion. how do they think about that? i know they haven't given a lot of thought to the end game, but before this starts the end game. how do they define destroying hamas? >> gene, it's part of the achilles heel. you had 30,000 to 35,000 hamas fighters october 7th. the israelis may killed 15,000. that still means you have

another 15,000 or 20,000 somewhere in gaza. you're not getting all of them. as you say, almost paraphrasing donald rumsfeld, the process of going after hamas means you are creating a new generation, potentially, of terrorists. we saw it already in northern gaza when the israelis pulled out. hamas or hamas-like elements re-enter. i don't think the israeli strategy makes sense. it is almost as if they're fighting a conventional war in an unconventional setting. there's no allowance for hearts and minds and how this is playing out. hamas knows that. that's why they're embedded forces in a civilian population. they're willing to take the casualties because they watch what's going on, see the protests in israel. they see the pushback in the united states and around the world. from their point of view, they may be losing militarily, but they're winning politically. that is the flaw in the israeli strategy. they're fighting the war

conventional, but it is an unconventional war. they can't -- there is no answer to your question. envelope if you went to rafah, what happens the day after? how do you translate the killing of some hamas troops into a lasting, political arrangement? the answer is you can't because israel hasn't introduced a political dimension into the strategy. jonathan lemire, part of it may be bad faith on netanyahu's part. part may be that they want to reoccupy gaza for the long run. we certainly have seen netanyahu say there is no two-state solution. there are people who may say that biden is being too tough on netanyahu. no doubt, he is tougher than any other israeli leader. netanyahu spent the last decade making sure this would happen. building up and strengthening hamas, funding hamas, turning a blind eye to hamas attack plans. >> worrying about his own legal problems. >> yeah.

and going after the palestinian authority in the west bank, allowing illegal settlements repeatedly to continue to go into the west bank. so he's created a real crisis here. biden looks and says, there is no two-state solutions? now, netanyahu is saying, i'm protecting you against the big, bad americans who say we need a two-state solution. well, we need a two-state solution. netanyahu's way has gotten us to where we are right now, not only in gaza with his funding of hamas, but also on the west bank. so i just want to say, jonathan, hamas may not ever be destroyed. every hamas member may not be destroyed, but the goal has to be that hamas will never have any part of running gaza again.

no part of the government again. let's state, it's not said on television enough, before the invasion, gaza was -- or hamas was very unpopular with people of gaza. they were not a popular force. right now, they're going to war basically with the palestinian authority. there are all of these battles between hamas and the palestinian authority. there always has been. hamas and the people of gaza. they don't say, yeah, maybe they're happy they killed a lot of jews. maybe there's some members there that are happy about that. there are plenty of opportunities in the long run, looking over the horizon, for what can happen in gaza with the peacekeeping force mainly of arab nations who are ready to go in, as you know, ready to go in,

ready to rebuild gaza. when the time is right. but the time won't be right until hamas releases the hostages and we figure out how to move beyond the current stalemate. >> certainly, everyday gazans aren't happy with hamas bringing war to their doorstep and this utter devastation of their homes, of the enclave. as long as the offensive goes on, they're more popular, as well. there's radicalization of everyday gazans. they may not join hamas, but they're certainly not going to potentially -- >> let's be honest, there are no winnings of hearts and minds of gaza. >> certainly not. >> with the israelis. there just aren't, never will be. that's why netanyahu's idea that, hey, we're going to go occupy gaza in the long run, no, no. this is where the united states steps up. if it is a u.n. peacekeeping force, fine. arab-run peacekeeping force with the backing of the united states, that's fine. there has to be a two-state

solution. we have to have political space, create the political space for the two-state solution. >> what is happening now will only make things worse going forward for everyone in the region. as you noted, biden has been tougher on netanyahu of late. the phone call last week, american officials tell me they're pleased, cautiously, at the incremental steps netanyahu has taken since the call, opening up more access to aid and stuff, but they didn't love the idea that he said this rafah operation is still going. could this be a bluff? could it be a negotiating tactic to try to say to hamas, make a deal or we're coming? that remains to be seen. jackie, a lot of people think the president needs to be tougher, and it should include conditioning or withholding aid to israel, unless things change. among those, former speaker of the house nancy pelosi, who we'll be speaking to later this morning. talk more about this feeling

among democrats and whether that, the israel part of it, could endanger the supplemental deal that could provide funds to israel and also ukraine. >> it is a complicated dynamic. this aid bill, the supplemental that made it through the senate before this recess but is unlikely to get through the house. if mike johnson and the house spooej, this week or next week, puts forward his own ukraine package, which he is working on now, which is likely to include more aid to israel, the senate will have an extremely hard time getting this through. initially, i was looking through my notes, we were already talking about this in november. i remember talking about how democrats behind closed doors were privately grumbling about the lack of conditions and strings attached to the aid provided to israel. they were frustrated with the special relationship where the application of humanitarian laws weren't necessarily being taken

into consideration. the u.s. wasn't enforcing or trying to keep tabs on whether or not israel has been using u.s.-sourced bombs to kill civilians. and now killing aid workers and 32,000 gazans. it was just bernie sanders at that point in time who was forcefully speaking out. then it was elizabeth warren. now, at this point, there is a rising cohort, as you noted, john, of democrats, over, i believe, three dozen who signed on to this letter sent last friday, asking biden to delay or pause at least this future arm sales or aid to israel unless there are more conditions. of course, this is a bit symbolic because any of these approvals or any aid that goes through in the future might not get to israel for years to come. in terms of this actual supplementary package, that is a

different story and could get jammed up in the senate if there is an entirely new package that's ultimately put through the house and lands in the senate's hands. >> we'll see. "the washington post"'s jackie alemany, thanks o'much. we appreciate it. richard haass, thank you, as well. before we let you go, 48 hours from right now, they'll be teeing off at augusta. you are our national golf correspondent. who do you like this year? >> hard to go against world number one scottie scheffler, but my heart, willie, rory mcilroy. he needs the masters to get the career grand slam. that's where my heart is. look out for jon rahm, as well. scottie scheffler is playing a level of golf that is staggering. >> rory has been close, finished second. >> finished third last week at the valero in texas. >> it's his time. >> i'm pulling for him. >> all right. richard haass, mika, our national golf correspondent. masters starts in two days. >> from the middle east to the masters, mika, you're hearing it. >> i feel ready now. i understand everything. let's move on to former

president trump losing another last-ditch effort to delay his upcoming hush money trial. trump's legal team filed an 11th hour request to halt the proceedings, arguing an impartial jury can't be selected because of pretrial publicity. the judge denied trump's request for a delay without explanation in a one sentence order yesterday. his team is also pushing to move the case out of manhattan. yesterday's ruling doesn't affect his underlying change of venue motion. the judge overseeing the hush money case sent a letter to trump's lawyers and the manhattan d.a.'s office outlining jury selection. the judge provided attorneys with a list of 42 questions potential jurors will be asked, including whether they have ever attended a trump rally. or if they belong to groups like the proud boys or antiqua.

trump's attorneys wanted to ask potential jurors whether they like the former president, but the judge called that question irrelevant. potential jurors will be asked about media consumption and whether they read "the new york times," watch fox news, or use truth social. the question doesn't ask about party affiliation, political contribution, or voting history. in the federal election interference case, special council jack smith is urging the supreme court to reject former president trump's claim that he should be granted absolute immunity. in a 66-page filing yesterday, smith and his team of prosecutors argued criminal law applies to a president and that there are no presidential powers that would entitle l trump to immunity in the case. prosecutors also stated that,

quote, history likewise refutes trump's arguments, citing president nixon's watergate scandal as a precedent. trump's team made a case for absolute immunity in a filing last month to the high court, stating the presidency cannot retain its, quote, vital independence if a president can face criminal prosecution after leaving office. and more than a dozen top officials have filed a brief to the u.s. supreme court opposing trump's push for immunity from prosecution. the 38-page amicus brief includes officials from democrats and republican administrations, dating back more than 50 years. as well as retired four star generals from all branches of the military and admirals from the u.s. coast guard. in the brief, the former leaders warned, quote, presidential

immunity from criminal prosecution would threaten the military's role in american society. our nation's constitutional order and our national security. they also argue presidential immunity poses a threat to democracy and would place commanders and their troops in the impossible situation of having to choose between obeying a commander in chief, giving an unlawful order, or obeying their oath to the constitution. the supreme court is set to hear oral arguments about trump's immunity argument april 25th. we'll be watching for that. willie, a lot going on. it appears, at least for now, trump's hush money trial was on schedule. >> that was slapped down quickly. it was a lot to get through. luckily, we have help. former litigator and legal correspondent lisa rubin is here. along with former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor chuck

rosenberg. good morning. good to see you both. there's a lot there. let's start at the beginning. we'll take these in order as mika went through them. start with the bid, the trump team's bid to delay the trial, which has been the strategy across the board. kick it down the road, delay, delay, but this one slapped aside by the appellate judge quickly. >> part of it. trump made filings with an appeals court asking to delay the trial on two grounds. one, the venue, meaning where the trial is situated in manhattan, is inappropriate because president trump can't bet a fair trial. that was denied yesterday. the court said, we will not stay the trial while we consider your change of venue motion. this morning, however, willie, that court is going to reconvene to hear the second part, which is trump's appeal of the gag order in that case. it's still unclear because papers are not accessible, whether he is asking to stay the trial while an appeals court considers whether judge merchan's gag order is constitutional and lawful.

if he has asked for a stay of trial, today, we'll see whether we get a similarly quick ruling. >> keeping it straight, this is the hush money trial, stormy daniels, the shorthand for it. the gag order, use whatever standard, but trump continues to talk about the trial and the judge himself. >> he's allowed to do that. under the gag order, he's allowed to do that, as odious and maybe justice-defeating as some of us might think that is. he is allowed to do that. he is not violating the terms of the gag order. one could argue he might be violating its spirit. >> chuck, let's talk about the jury selection process. it is set up for monday. believed to be scheduled. what mika read, does it feel right to you? >> it does, jonathan. i can simplify this. the judge is trying to find a jury that can be fair. you can watch fox news and be

fair. you can watch msnbc and be fair, right? you can vote one way or the other and be fair. you have a lot of people in the city and eligible to serve as jurors. you need 12 people who can be fair. the questionnaire is designed to do that. can you sit and listen? do you have other responsibilities that may distract you or require you to do other things? if you can sit, if you can listen, if you can pay attention, can you be fair? >> chuck, bottom lining this, before we move to the next case, does any of this appear to threaten to hold up this trial in a significant way? >> a little bit, yes, and a little bit, no. lisa and i were talking before we started here, willie. it's interesting. my experience in the eastern district of virginia, 50, 60 trials, never took me more than 45 minutes to pick a jury. different judges and different courts do things in different ways. we didn't use questionnaires.

it'd be unusual for that to happen in our federal court. here, however, it tends to be the practice so it takes longer, right, to get through 42 questions with however many people are on the panel. could take a week or two. but this is not an overly complex process. it is going to be managed by the judge. they'll get through it and see the jury. the trial is going to begin. whether it is a few days or a couple weeks, it shouldn't be an enormous delay. >> it is going ahead one way or another. might be a slight bump in the road, but it is going ahead. >> it is. let's turn to the federal election case and the filing by special prosecutor jack smith on the question of immunity. absolute immuity is what donald trump's legal team is calling for. as we look at how this federal election interference case plays out with oral arguments set to begin in a couple of weeks, what is that filing yesterday mean to the larger case?

this is jack smith's one chance to respond in writing to the supreme court on these issues. many things they say in the brief we've seen them say at least twice before. they said it to judge chutkan, who ruled donald trump was not immune. they said it to the d.c. circuit who made a similar ruling. what is newer here is the audience and how jack smith pitched the argument to account for the possibility there are folks on this court who won't only find a former president could be immune for initial acts but might be inclined to find some of what has been alleged here could also be official. in the last pages of the brief, you see jack smith trying to account for the contingenies and building in backstops, as if/then statements. if some of these things strike you as official, that doesn't mean the whole case gets thrown out. because this is largely a private conspiracy designed to forward a private aim, of keeping donald trump in office, which is a campaign act, not an

official one. >> chuck, weigh in on this. how do you see when the arguments are presented, they'll be received. >> they should be received exactly as they were received before. there is no such thing as absolute immunity, particularly for unofficial acts. lisa raises an important point. there may be a barrow band of cases in which a president, any president, does something in his or her official capacity for which they ought not be prosecuted. i can give an example. president obama ordered the targeted killing of a u.s. person abroad who joined a foreign terrorist organization. could he be prosecuted for that? should he be prosecuted for that? the answer to both questions should be absolutely not. it is an official act within his official duties as president. you might want to carve out a small number of cases where a president takes an official act and ought to be immune. to lisa's really important

point, that ain't this case. >> right. we can also add into the mix this amicus brief from the generals. 38-page court filing signed by 19 four star admirals, generals, former secretaries of the army, navy, air force, and coast guard, arguing against presidential immunity, saying presidential immunity from criminal prosecution would threaten the military's role in american society, our nation's constitutional order, and our national security. that was filed to the supreme court by the collection of former military leaders. chuck rosenberg, lisa rubin helping us short through all this. we appreciate it. thank you. joe? yeah. >> thank you. >> what a strong -- >> i mean -- >> what a strong message from the generals, the admirals, from people -- >> all sides of the aisle, as well. resounding and a strong message if they haven't already received it. >> really strong. willie, couple days ago, i

talked about an extraordinary sporting event. it continues to play out -- >> what is he -- >> it is like secretariat. >> wow, the belmont. >> what do we have here? >> i was going to say, kentucky derby, where he comes from behind. it is incredible. doesn't even see it coming, boom. you talk about the belmont. i speak, of course, of the new york mets. no one can say the lowly new york mets right now. they're raging. they have a two-game winning streak. >> wow. >> they are 4-6. all i can say, sham, watch out, this is the year's secretariat. >> coming on the outside, the mets, they're hot, baby. spoiling the party for the braves on the anniversary of hank aaron's record-breaking home run. don't sleep on the mets. the early season, jonathan

lemire, already been bashed in the tabloids of new york city. yankees off to a good start. the mets might sneak up the chain a little here. what do you think. >> thanks for unnecessarily bringing in the yankees and the good start, willie. >> sure. >> the mets had a lot of injuries coming out of the spring. hope did not spring eternal. mets fans i knew were pessimistic about the year. but they put together a couple of wins, heading in the right direction. we should mark, also, it is the home opener at fenway park today. boston red sox coming off of a surprisingly successful west coast trip. >> unbelievable. >> 7-3 and hoist the powerhouse orioles. 2:00. >> our west coast trips are always -- especially beginning of the season, absolutely deadly. they leave half the squad on the west coast. they come back ragged. it's terrible. yeah, no, they're looking good. speaking of the belmont, willie, i didn't know this, did you hear? i think we need to do a "morning

joe" show there. >> what are you talking about? >> did you hear the belmont stakes are going to be run in saratoga this year? >> what? no, i didn't hear that. >> yes. yes! >> not the belmont stakes then, are they? >> racetrack is under construction. >> racetrack under construction. the belmont stakes, i think we go to saratoga springs and have a friday special right there. >> what are you -- >> saratoga springs for the belmont stakes. what do you think? >> well, i was going to say, we love the belmont for the tradition, but, my goodness, saratoga, beautiful. going upstate that time of year, i'm all in. we have that, joe, then we have alabama/vanderbilt coming up in october. we'll be down there for that. it's a big year. >> alex, can you tell our bosses we're going to be at saratoga springs the friday before the belmont stakes, and we're going to be in nashville, music city, baby, for vandy/alabama? >> okay. >> one other thing, can i ramble? >> oh. >> quickly.

willie, i had some tv viewing here, okay, for you. some movies don't age well, right? you think, that was a classic, then 30, 40 years later, you're like, that was terrible acting. well, the carly simon line about saratoga, you know, of course, your horse won, it was about warren batey. heaven can wait. i stumbled across heaven can wait this past weekend. don't know if you've seen it. >> i have. >> warren batey. >> i haven't. >> you go down the list. james mason. it is an incredible cast. saw it again. man, it doesn't age. still a great movie. >> i haven't seen it in years, but you've given me something to do. rain this week, so maybe "heaven can wait." maybe a warren batey marathon. is it possible he is now

underrated because it's been a while since his peak? he's been in so many great movies. i guess he's not by people who know movies, but by current standards, i think we need to revisit warren batey and have a movie marathon. >> we need to go to warren batey's house on a friday. >> he'd love that. >> three now. saratoga springs. we're going to nashville for the vandy/alabama game. somebody call warren batey see if we can go to the outside of his house for a warren batey film festival. >> ring the bell. >> we'll get the community together and watch "reds." >> outside of his house is good because he's not letting us in. that much i know. >> maybe in his neighborhood. if he doesn't call the cops on us. >> all right. nobody engage with joe. we're going to take a moment here and introduce the next hour here, ten minutes late. eugene robinson is still with us. >> would you like to do that, though? >> no engaging joe. >> special correspondent at

"vanity fair," molly jong-fast. >> molly knows what we're talking about. >> molly! >> she'd go to a warren batey film festival. >> do not engage joe. do not engage. co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei is here with us. his book is entitled "just the good stuff." it's coming out april 30th. i like that. >> jim looks to be all business. let's go to the news. >> he doesn't look all jim, it is super cash. okay. let's get to the news. after months of questions, former president donald trump yesterday revealed his multiple positions on abortion. >> his position is no position at all. >> no positions except for the damage done to women's health across america and taking away 50 years of rights and causing a lot of destruction and potential death for women in difficult

childbearing situations. anyhow, donald trump declined to call for a national ban, saying he will leave it up to the states. nbc news, senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: after weeks of hints, former president trump weighing in on abortion. declining to call for a national ban, instead, saying it should be up to states to decide on any restrictions. >> the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. at the end of the day, it's all about the will of the people. >> reporter: also stating his own view. >> i'm strongly in favor of exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. >> reporter: mr. trump's announcement creating intense, bipartisan backlash. >> donald trump just endorsed every single state ban on reproductive care nationwide. if maga republicans put a federal ban on his desk, he'd sign it.

donald trump is the reason roe is ended. if you re-elect me, i'll be the reason it is restored. >> some of the things we started gathering for her while i was pregnant. >> yup. >> reporter: this biden campaign ad blaming mr. trump after a woman in texas was denied care under that state's restrictive law. while mr. trump's former vp mike pence slamming him for not calling for a national ban. writing, quote, "president trump's retreat on the right to life is a slap in the face to the millions of pro-life americans who voted for him in 2016 and 2020." the supreme court, with three trump-appointed justices, struck down roe v. wade in 2022, returning the issue to the states where some now have near total abortion bans. others have no restrictions. but just 36% of americans support the overturning of roe according to an nbc news poll. the issue has energizd democrats. for mr. trump, the announcement is the latest step in a long, public evolution on abortion.

>> i'm pro-choice. i'm pro-life. we'll agree to a number of weeks which will be -- where both sides will be happy. >> he's been saying both sides will be happy. molly, neither is happy. >> what was amazing in that video was he said both sides wanted roe overturned, right? legal scholars on both sides thought roe was wrong. completely crazy. roe had been the law since 1973. the reason it was decided so broadly was because you had doctors afraid to treat, which is what we're seeing now. i want to point out that donald trump is, in fact, lying about saying he wants to kickstates. we know this because the supreme court has two abortion cases right now. during the arguments for the

methopristone case, we heard how they were going to use a law not use in the 100 years to ban the mailing of abortion pills. behind the scenes, heritage foundation working to regulate ivf and ban abortion. heritage is a big trump-supporting quote, unquote, thinktank. we're seeing trump saying one thing and doing another. it is -- the one thing that is meaningful about this video is that he knows he is -- that the party, the republican party, is losing on abortion, and so he is trying to get ahead of it. >> so no position on a national ban, which republicans wanted to hear. lindsey graham telling reporters the former president was making a mistake and he, quote, respectfully disagrees with trump's assertion that abortion is a states rights issue. in response to that, donald trump unloaded on his old buddy, lindsey graham. in one post, he wrote, i blame myself for lindsey graham, because the only reason he won in the great state of south carolina is because i endorsed

him. in another post, trump quote, "senator lindsey graham should spend more time focusing on all the many people being killed because of our now non-existent border and the millions of people dying in senseless, never-ending wars he constantly favors and promotes." adding, "great job, lindsey." >> there it is. >> do we need to keep reading these? we get the idea, right, jonathan lemire? >> we're good. >> i guess the question is, what's the over/under on number of days that lindsey graham rushes to mar-a-lago to apologize? >> he's boarding a flight right now for west palm beach. yeah, this is -- they've slashed on foreign policy issues. trump has a hold on lindsey graham, where every once in a while, he whacks him. that's what's happening here. it is interesting in a way that it reflects, and we heard from mike pence, as well, from some conservatives who believe in the pro-life movement, who want this national ban and were disappointed by donald trump. what donald trump did yesterday seemed to anger everyone.

you could tell, which is the tell for donald trump these days, truth social. as the day went on, his posts got more and more angry and incoherent. lindsey graham took the brunt. it was clear, and aides confirmed this later to a few of us, he didn't like how yesterday went. the video he thought didn't land well. he was getting heat from all sides. the biden ad, in particular, the young woman in texas, molly, was very, very powerful. the caption read, "donald trump did this." it'll resonate with voters. pro-life republicans are not suddenly voting for joe biden, but if enough are angry, they might stay home or seek another venue, that's interesting. >> i think trump feels he has those evangelical voters in the bag and that they're not going to go vote for biden. look, he installed these justices who are still looking at abortion. the idea they have two cases right now in the supreme court again, and they said they weren't going to keep going on

abortion. very clearly, they're going on abortion. we see the republicans talking about birth control pills. the far-right contingent, these evangelicals are not satiated. they want more. if trump gives more, he'll alienate the swing voters. >> briefly, donald trump said in the late '90s, i'm pro-choice. decides to run for president. tells republicans, "i'm pro-life." he promises supreme court justices, gave them three. promised a pro-life vice president, mike pence. gave them that. promised to defund planned parenthood. checked the boxes, got elected, got the justices in, and now in the last two years, he's seen the political fallout of the end of roe and now, he is scrambling to cover the base, making no one happy at all. >> the dog catches the car.

>> yeah. this november, the car is going to back up over the dog. just because -- sorry. it's just -- not literally. >> political metaphor. >> yeah. >> figuratively. did i say that right or am i still in trouble. >> you're okay. but it's true. >> not literally. >> never, no. >> we've seen it time and again, kansas, kentucky. go through the states, wisconsin. >> i can't wait to see how florida plays out. >> ohio. >> that'll be crazy. >> i know. >> opportunities in florida for democrats. >> i want to go to tim vandehei. >> let's go to the good stuff. >> not that i begrudge this, but let david mcintosh give me bogus information off the record, then ran it in "roll call,".

>> still going there? >> i want to go to vandehei despite that. >> stick to the good stuff, joe. >> yes, joe. >> jim, i'm looking at your latest master work, and it cuts against everything we hear in politics today, everything. but mika and i have given speeches around this country in years past, before we became hermits, and we still get out a good bit. we are surrounded in our life by people who support donald trump. we don't understand why they support donald trump. but you get beneath that, right? you get past the -- and i call it surface tribalism -- the tribalism, and you start asking basic questions and talking about america. you start complaining about, whether it's crime or the -- whatever it is. we can say roe v. wade.

we can talk about all these things. you get beneath the surface, and what is so surprising is how much people agree. like, i've always said it, whether i'm talking to a mom or a dad on the upper west side or in alabama, i'm not being hokey, they want the same thing for their kids. chances are good they feel the same about a ton of issues. now, you step into the whole political sphere, when it's trump versus hillary, trump verse, then, suddenly, things separate. but americans are a lot -- that's why when i hear civil war, i go, please, please. they'll take it out on the football field on friday night. >> no doubt. i do the same as you, you travel, try to talk to people, try to talk to people who are really partisan, try to get beneath the surface. i, increasingly, have come to

the conclusion that 70% to 80% of people are actually normal. they're not all worked up about the things that people get worked up about. and the reality of it is, we really have been in this distortion machine. if you're on twitter or x all day, if you're living on tiktok or marinating in even some of the topics we deal with every day, what happens is, people who have the loudest voices, who often say the most provocative things tend to dominate the conversation. it leaves you thinking, wait, does everyone think this, feel this? is everyone so worked up they're about to, you know, maybe conduct a civil war to defend their party versus the other? you realize, no. most people actually have a life. most aren't making politics the beer you drink or the store you shop at. one of the examples i use, enjoy to church, know catholics, christians, name every denomination. most people aren't thinking that trump is sent from god to offer salvation to the people. like, are there fringe people

who think nutty things? yes. have there always been fringe people who think nutty things? absolutely. but what's different is there's just a new way to amplify that through social media, sometimes to the most partisan people on cable, and certainly through the tribal battles we see at the base of the parties. it's not america. there was an ap poll out that asked asked both parties, do you believe in freedom of speech, to live the way you want to live? almost every republican and democrat looking at the founding principles of the constitution agree with all of it. they disagree on the edges about how you turn it into public policy, but there is a reason we're wondering, is this real? because it is not clear what's real. especially when people are getting information in so many different realities, right? your kid is on tiktok. you and i maybe through "the new york times," "morning joe,"

"axios," other publications. if you are a trumper, you might be getting it through podcasts that most people have never heard of. if you're, you know, a tech bro, you might be listening to "all in" and getting your news from elon musk. it is very distorting. i think it is important to remind people that i do think the country is mostly sane. >> jim, i couldn't agree more. i'm glad you wrote this piece. i call them the normies. at the grocery store, the sideline of a basketball game, at church, doing what normal people do, which is the vast majority of the country, they're not frothing at the mouth about what we hear on social media and tv sometimes. what i think gets some people is, many of the normies we live with, know, and consider ourselves to be in many ways, they do vote, in many cases, 74 million of them last time, for someone who so violates so much of what they stand for. whether you're an evangelical christian or somebody who believes january 6th was a terrible day or that he shouldn't terminate the

constitution, all those things, that's where the friction comes in a little bit. we agree on so much. >> yeah. >> yet, you're willing to put your vote forward for someone who disagrees so much of what you're about. >> politics has become very toxic. certainly, donald trump has made it more toxic. given the words he uses, the issues he takes advantage of. he sees what we see in this reality distortion machine. he's been a master at it. i never thought he is the cause. he is a symptom of it, maybe a big symptom of it, but a lot of this stuff exists nonetheless. even when you talk to those trump supporters, like, when you get outside the big cities and talk to them and you really push them on what they believe, yeah, maybe they're telling a pollster they think the election was stolen, but the more you talk to them, they don't really feel that. they think they don't trust anything. they don't trust institutions. they don't trust the media. it's kind of like a middle finger to pollsters, the media, and to politics in general. by the way, if you really thought that the election was stolen, if, like, tens of millions of people, you'd

passively say, yeah, it was stolen, i'm not doing anything about it. you'd storm the streams if you believed in your bones in large numbers that was the truth. that's the tribal nature you're seeing in politics. a little of this is because so many people have torn down all the institutions that led all of us together when we were kids, right? boy scouts, girl scouts, churches, business, government, media. when everyone trusts nothing and everyone is, like, left on their own, you kind of get the politics that you have today. i think, you know, i think about this a lot through the lens of my kids, like, trying to remind them, i don't understand why people are always so hanged on things. for the flaws we have, think of what we went through the last eight years, the country is kind of killing it. who invented a.i.? we did. who is scared? china. how about our gdp, economic growth? yes, there's income inequality. great if we didn't have it.

but i think anyone in europe, anyone in china, most countries in asia would love to be in the position the united states is in. oh, by the way, we're crushing it on creating our own energy, including renewable energies. where's a lot of that being done? in red states. does anyone pay attention to it? no. no one really cares about areas where people get along. it's easier to get worked up about things that play to our passions. >> all that is true. the economy is strong. the data is good, molly. it is also true that they are maybe a minority and the normies are not participating, but people went to the streets january 6th and attacked the capitol. again, donald trump has fomented that, continued that lie, and a lot of people going along with it. good people going along with it. >> jim, i have a question about your framing here. you're sort of implying that donald trump and joe biden are the same. we both know -- >> no. >> -- that donald trump tells his followers a lot of lies. he encouraged the insurrection on january 6th. >> yeah. >> he told them it would be

wild. he constantly undermines both democracy and the rule of law. >> correct. >> so joe biden, while wanting to give people health care and forgive student debt, may be quite annoying to a lot of affluent republicans, he is not really on the same level as trump and his wildly anti-democratic -- and i also would add, just the supposition here that trump is somehow not the cause of a lot of this. i mean, we have never had a presidential candidate who has made such a mockery of democracy. i mean, even the most staunch republican, even richard nixon, you know, said, okay, it's enough. i'm just curious how you square that with the idea that this is business as usual. >> first off, i want to correct the premise. like, nowhere in the piece do i say that donald trump and joe biden are identical or that they're both doing the same thing. i don't talk about them that much. i talk much more about the

country. >> but you understand that conventional framing elevates an autocrat. >> there is no doubt that what donald trump has done, particularly in tearing at democracy, in tearing at norms, and i think norms, customs, democracy, freedom, vote, like, those things so fundamentally matter. there's no doubt that that is in a different category than biden. my point is, take trump away. you're still going to be -- you're still going to have a version of this. it's not like, right now, maybe donald trump certainly accelerated it, but, now, listen, if donald trump left tomorrow, he's gone. he's off the stage. what we're talking about still exists. this idea that, like, sort of, who is going to replace trump in the republican party? not mitt romney. it'll be someone like donald trump because of, like, the activist wing, the 20%, they buy into the stuff he talks about. but i still think, what i'm trying to state is that is a

fringe view that on most topics, most people, i think, are sensible. the thought experiment i use, and i'd encourage you to use, think of the 250, 200 people you meet in a given year you can make an appraisal of. family, friends, people you run into at work. i bet you'd say 95% of the people are basically normal. they volunteer. they give money to good causes. they help you shovel in a snowstorm. i bet you'd say they would. what i'm trying to do with the piece is remind people, that is what keeps this country together. that is what is most important. normies, willie, or whatever you say, it's normal america, 70% of the country. >> gene, here is -- here's the difficulty that i don't think we're going to be able to figure out now. historians and sociologies, people with 20 years of perspective will be able to handle this better.

how can you explain, and something -- >> i think we need to tackle it now, or 20, 30 years might look pretty different. just saying. please continue. >> my point is, gene, we're not capable of figuring out right now, i'm not capable of figuring out right now why some of these friends that i talk about that voted for donald trump after he said he wanted me to be execute ed, why i know that if i needed a lung from them, they'd be the first people running to the hospital to be in line to give me their lung. >> yeah. >> hard to explain that. hard to explain how what jim is saying is true. what jim is saying is true. what is also true is, trump has so infected the republican base, that now 75% of republicans think january 6th was bullshit. how do you explain that away?

it's really hard to do. >> yeah. >> i'm going to say, and i'll sound like ford here, and say, jim vandehei is right and molly is right, as well. these are the two conflicting pulls right now, not of american politics but of american society. again, i think a lot of us are incapable of sorting through and figures out right now. >> i think we haven't figured it out. i hope we're not incapable of figuring it out. i agree with mika, that we need to work on that. we need to figure a way to get past this, to get out of this reality distortion field. it's so involved in the way our whole information atmosphere, our information universes have

separated and people get their information now. that is, you know, an evil genie that's out of the bottle, and we have to deal with it. it's not going to go back to the way it was when i was a kid, when there were, you know, three television networks and you read the daily newspaper and that was your information. it's different. we haven't figured out how to deal with that. that is a huge challenge. it's a huge challenge not just in this country but around the world. we'd better grapple with it, i think, or we're going to go in horrible directions, as we have already gone, witness the trump years. >> mika, final thoughts on this? >> i mean, i think to gene's point, the information atmosphere is a mess. there are a large swath of americans getting a daily diet of lies and getting absolutely wrong information. they're getting this information from networks that have paid a

heavy price for lying, and they don't care, again, because of trump. while i think you can say history will look at this time as a, b, or c, i think it's part of americans' civic duty to tune in right now and figure out how to get to the truth. take a look at january 6th. make a moral decision as to whether that was right or wrong. and everything that happened leading up to and after. what's happening now with president trump and the j6 choir and saying he'll pardon the j6 hostages. i could go on for more than four hours of all the things that need to be looked at. but i do think that americans just can't be immune to this and just be out of touch with it. that's why it's okay. that's impossible. >> nobody is saying it's okay. >> it's our duty. >> nobody is saying it's okay. >> well, but i think the concept

is that people are more normal and they're not necessarily thinking about these things. i think we should. i think this country is in trouble. i think every american citizen needs to talk and think and look at what it means to be part of a democracy and make a freaking decision. >> we agree. i know jim agrees, despite his past with dave mcintosh. i know he agrees. and i agree, as well. i think that's what's so confounding, willie. it's so confounding. we talk about this all the time. people we know, love, respect, people who are so intelligent in so many different ways, they'll come to us with a bizarre conspiracy theory that they read off the internet from a foreign-run website that's clearly meant to manipulate the

truth, then they'll get off of that and go to a cable news network who has absolutely no problem lying to viewers. >> yeah, swallow it whole. really smart people we know asking us about why we're not covering the italian satellite that manipulated the voting machines in 2020. not making that up. jim vandehei, give the last word to you. you started a great conversation here. put a final point on it. >> i think it is an important conversation to have. i think mika is right. i mean, it's hard. i'm really sympathetic to the person out there trying to get to the truth, right? there's so many different ways to get information. what i tell people is, go try to find a couple of sources that, on a regular basis, you think are getting to the closest approximation of the truth. maybe get off of social media or clean up your social media habits. focus a little bit less on the news. make sure you do have sort of some sense of, like, what is truth and what is grounded in truth? not to keep the debate going,

but a good example, for republicans who are hopped up right now about illegal immigration, coming through from the southern border. it is a real issue. both sides, it is a massive issue. you could say it is a crisis at the border. but the idea that elon musk is feeding to mainly republicans, this idea that millions of people are coming in and now they're voting and they're going to tip the election toward joe biden. what you have to do then is do a little bit of work and realize, it is kind of hard to vote illegally in a federal election. if you came here illegally, you're going to have to either somehow have some kind of verification that you're on the roll to be able to vote or you have an id that that is you, and you have to risk committing a federal crime to be able to vote illegally. just use the 12 people at a bar test. you really think millions of people are taking that risk? sanity would help us all. >> it would. co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei, thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thank you. >> "vanity fair's" molly jong-fast, thank you, as well.

ahead on "morning joe," former house speaker nancy pelosi is our guest this hour. we have a lot to talk about with her. first, japan's prime minister will meet with president biden at the white house today amid shared concerns about china's influence. u.s. ambassador to japan, rahm emanuel, is standing by to weigh in on that. we're back in two minutes.

tonight, president biden will meet with the japanese prime minister at the white house ahead of a formal visit and state dinner set for tomorrow. the prime minister and his wife touched down yesterday at joint base andrews in maryland. this will be the first official state visit to the white house by a leader of japan since 2015. discussions are expected to involve strengthening both countries' defensive cooperation amid growing chinese aggression

in the eastern hemisphere. joining us now, the united states ambassador to japan, rahm emanuel. it's good to see you again, mr. ambassador. >> good to see you. >> talk about the -- yeah, it's great to have you on. talk about the historic nature, if you could, of this visit, and also what you hope the two countries can accomplish. >> well, you have basically whatever operated for the last 60 years between both countries, what i refer to as alliance protection. now, we're pivoting to alliance projection into the indo-pacific. the constant for us in the united states and our partner is japan. whether that is in a quad relationship with india and australia, seoul, the trilateral, united states, japan, and korea, and what will come thursday, the first leaders between the united states, japan, and the philippines. that new relationship, the constant for it will be japan, who also made major, major changes under prime minister kishida on the defense policy

capabilities, also to be a full partner on the diplomatic side, development side, and the deterrence side. the united states is changing its posture there to make sure we have a coalition of countries that stand for china to be isolated in the pacific rather than china isolate their target, be it the philippines or japan on the economic front with banning japanese fish. this state visit comes as a major pivot in the indo-pacific, where the united states today is gaining ground and china is further isolated. >> if you could talk a little bit, mr. ambassador, about some of the opportunities to -- >> i love hearing you say that. go ahead again. >> mr. ambassador. you and my brother. it's pretty funny. so i'm curious about some of the opportunities for collaboration in terms of deterrence of a growing aggression from china and what you are most concerned

about there. >> well, taking on just not only defense, while there is a piece of that. when president biden hosted both the prime minister of japan and the president of south korea in camp david back in august, that is a major part of deterrence. china's entire strategy was the united states, japan, and korea could never get on the same page. that happened under president biden's leadership. it fundamentally changed the indo-pacific strategic ground. right now in real time, just yesterday, the united states, japan, the philippines and australia finished a naval exercise. thursday, the president is hosting for the first time ever the philippine president, the prime minister of japan. in an additional trilateral relationship, both defense and diplomatic. that is deterrence. deterrence is effective at making sure that china takes a pause before the raw exercise of power places the rule of law. when you look at situations, you'll have that in real time happening in the south china sea, where the philippines are,

and that's where we're standing in a coalition. china is isolated. in 2016, the international courts ruled in favor of the philippines. china totally ignored the rules. either you'll have the rule of law international acceptance of those or the raw exercise of power is going to be the new mode of operation. here is a principle where australia, the united states, japan, philippines, other countries not just like-minded, accept the fundamental premise that the rule of law should be the guiding principle. all countries, regardless of power or position, are held to that. >> mr. ambassador, good morning. it's been said beijing is watching how the world responds to russia invading ukraine, with perhaps an eye on taiwan itself someday. when you speak to japanese officials, other leaders in the region, what sort of worry do they express to you about not just the potential return of donald trump to the white house but also, right now, a

republican congress blocking aid to ukraine it so desperately needs? >> look, the prime minister said it a couple years ago, the defense council. what's in ukraine today could be the indo-pacific tomorrow. it's fundamental to the credibility, not only of all countries that believe in the rule of law, that the united nations charter got violated when russia invaded a sovereign nation, ukraine. if that kind of act holds across the globe, not just what happened in ukraine, we'll have a lot different world and america will be isolated. the question is whether russia and china will be isolated the way they're operating with the raw exercise of power. it's not an accident that when the senate was debating this very same funding for restocking america's stockpile of weapons and equipment, that the u.s. ambassadors, career and political, all came together and sent a letter to the speaker, the senate majority leader, the minority leader, in both the house and the senate, calling

for congress to fund what is essential. because everybody in asia is watching and, more importantly, clear about the need for america's leadership in making sure that russia's raw exercise of power, violating the united nations charter, and the ukrainian people's sovereignty is in liberty, is held. remember, in 1960 inaugural, president kennedy talked about every exercise in the defense of liberty. that was true then. it is true today. so all the leaders, korea, philippines, australia, new zealand, singapore, india, all looking to the united states congress today to fulfill what has always been a bipartisan, accepted premise. the defense of freedom and liberty and the independence of a country, that we will stand shoulder and shoulder with them and bear any burden, as president kennedy said. the prime minister said it in

the singapore conference. he'll speak to the joint session. there is no way -- i mean, i don't know exactly what he'll say, but it is always consistent with the policy of japan, which is why when it comes to ukraine's energy and infrastructure, attacked by russia right now, japan has been one of the biggest funders to keep the civil society functioning. they've been a partner in the sovereignty of the people of ukraine. >> we have been watching how this formal visit plays out. the united states ambassador to japan, mr. ambassador, rahm emanuel. it is weird to call you mr. ambassador, but we'll do it. >> it is weird to hear it. >> great having you on. coming up, israeli prime minister netanyahu sets a date for the ground offensive in rafah. it comes as dozens of democrats in congress want to put conditions on aid to israel. including our next guest. former house speaker nancy

pelosi joins us live in studio to weigh in on that and much more. "morning joe" will be right back. (♪♪ ) why did i keep missing out on this? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta? do you remember the pain, the worry, the canceled plans? and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine but qulipta reduces attacks making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind

that blocks cgrp and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget you get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta. most common side effects are nausea, constipation and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta, the forget-you-get migraine medicine. (♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently,

it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. ♪(clapping)♪ ♪(percussion)♪ ♪cause you're free♪ ♪to do what you want to do♪ ♪do what you want♪ ♪do what you want♪

the story like this. >> fox news alert. a rare celestial event collides with a policy failure on the ground. the southern border will be directly in the path of totality when the moon covers the sun. >> everybody will be looking up. if you are looking at the border, you will see illegal immigrants in dark clothing, sometimes camouflage trying to sneak into the united states. >> yes, immigrants in dark clothing are using the eclipse to sneak across the border. they won't get another opportunity like that until night.

>> was that real? >> that was real, willie. >> the theory was the eclipse would give cover? >> yeah, that would allow more to get off the border. joining us here in studio, speaker emeritus, democratic congresswoman nancy pelosi of california. madam speaker, so great to have you here. >> my pleasure. >> we want to start with the abortion question, which since roe v. wade was overturned almost two years ago now, we have seen the political fallout, seen voters in red states say you have gone too far with this. yesterday donald trump with a muddled message trying to please several different constituencies, turns out, pleasing none of them. how do you believe this will play through the election year? >> the issue about a women's right to choose, it's a democracy issue. it's freedom of women to make their -- families to make their decisions. so when -- what's his name?

said what he said yesterday, he is stupid or he thinks the rest of us are stupid because he takes great tied in overturning roe v. wade, great pride in it. and then the way the press wrote it up just cracked me up because it said, donald trump believes that -- he doesn't believe anything. he believes in his political survival, and that's what he is trying to accommodate. but you can't be a little bit pro-life. you are there or you're not there. and people see that. so, he may have outsmarted -- well, i hate to say outsmarted because, what? doesn't seem to apply. but why would the press say he believes? he doesn't believe anything. >> we certainly didn't say that. we said that's what happens when you are completely unprincipled on something. you go all over the place, meander. he played publicly he was pro-life, then pro-life when he

wanted to get into politics on the republican side. we have seen the results in the midterm elections and states across the rookie, different referenda on ballots. how do our believe this will play a role in the 2024 general election? >> thank you for asking. in the 2022 election people said we would lose 30 seats, 40 seats. >> the red wave? >> yeah. they don't know what they are talking about. they were saying i would owe an apology for promoting the issue of woman's right to choose. climate, women's right to choose, guns and democracy were our -- where we took our message into the states that we had. now, we are not a national campaign. we are discrete into different elections. we knew the power of that. those saying, oh, she is so wrong, roe v. wade is in the rearview mirror, people don't care about it that much. they do. it's a democracy issue. it's a kitchen table issue for families. to make their decisions about

this. it's about respect for women. my gosh, respect for women. so it's a big deal. you have seen every election has been won. now, i don't know what will happen in florida because i didn't question the integrity of florida's elections, much less whether it can work there. but people in florida are revved up about it. it will be a big issue in the campaign. and let me say, when we won in '18, people said, oh, aren't you lucky that health care was such an important issue in the campaign? i said we weren't lucky. we made our own luck. we had 10,000 events pointing out what the affordable care act did. similarly for this. people are organized. you would be -- i am encouraged to hear what women are doing around the country, even in red states, about this issue. so there is drum beat.

are we may not win, you know, not win an election, say, in certain red states, when abortion is not on the ballot. but it causes a drum beat across the country. >> you mentioned florida. the 15 week ban, about to become a six-week ban, what are your questions about the integrity of the elections there? >> oh, in florida? i don't know. i just i think if you have all of the money in the world, go spend some in florida. otherwise, let's just win the election elsewhere. my friends in florida will not like that. but the fact is, we have to win. we have to win this. joe biden is -- you know, it's a beautiful vision for america. he knows the issues. he knows the strategy how to get things down. greatest record of a president in the first two years when we had the majority, comparable to lyndon johnson and franklin roosevelt.

he doesn't have as long a stay. nonetheless, for when he was there. and an empathic person who cares about america. we have this guy saying, oh, i'm proud of overturning roe v. wade and now states make up their mind. what he said, he said they can use their faith. i mean, he had them -- i don't even know what the word is. the gall. to use the word faith about how they make these decisions. >> let's turn to israel. president biden had a phone call with prime minister benjamin netanyahu last week, expressed unhappiness how the war is being conducted in gaza. nam of democrats have done especially after that strike that killed those humanitarian workers. the date for the rafah invasion is going ahead. you said military aid to israel should be condition. what conditions and why? >> let me be specific. the letter was about the attack

on the -- >> aid workers? >> the workers. it said until there is an investigation, and they said they were doing an investigation. now, i think the investigation should be an independent one. i said that early on, and secretary blinken said that. jose andres said that. nonetheless, that letter said there should be an investigation. it didn't enlarge the issue to everything else. you have to know that we have a language in the law which says if we give you assistance, as we do, you cannot interfere with our giving humanitarian assistance. so there is some conversation that will be had about this in the senate and in the house. it's really such a tragedy. look, october 7th was barbaric.

it was horrible what they did to the israeli people and the rest. hamas is a terrorist organization. we need to free the hostages, all of the hostages. but nearly 33,000 people dying, people starving, hydration, famine and the rest, there has to be a better way. >> mika? >> and madam speaker, on that note, what are some of the opportunities or options for president biden in terms of trying to forge a better path here? it seems netanyahu is really dug in on a number of things. do you think that conditions on aid should be put in place? >> well -- >> if they are put in place, what would they be? >> i'm not -- i have not been fan of having conditions on aid to israel. we give israel the aid.

we give because it's in our national security issue interest to do so. that has been our tradition. but i do -- the president has not said if they crossed the red line in rafah, what he would do. but i'll tell you what he has been doing:and people should know this. especially try to say this to the people in front of my house in the middle of the night and the rest. the president has been advocating for humanitarian assistance the palestinians. the republicans in the house of representatives have held it up. and yet they hear these people go out there and say, oh, genocide joe, all that. not to repeat what they said. nonetheless, he has been advocating for it. the house of representatives has held that up, as you know. but in addition to that, one of the plans that they put forth to give aid to ukraine has no humanitarian assistance.

so there has to be some recognition of what is holding up this assistance to the palestinians because, i mean, humanity, as jose keeps saying, we've got to support humanity in all of this. so i can't really answer that except to say what our law is, that if we give you assistance, you can cannot interfere with our giving humanitarian assistance for the same geographic area. i would hope that netanyahu -- but netanyahu, i mean, he is only interested in his own political survival. does that sound familiar? that's just the way it's been. it's a tragedy. netanyahu is a tragedy. we all love israel. we want israel to be able to defend itself. but also to maintain its -- the

respect it commands in the world. i don't think he is in furtherance of that. i think that chuck schumer was right when he said there should be an election. >> we were talking, madam speaker, in the commercial break about the steaks of this election as we've seen them. you have watched firsthand. you were inside the capital on january 6th. you experienced a horrific incident in your own family because of the climate and the culture. what's going on right now in this country. so, where do you see the stakes? what do you say to some of those progressives who are protesting at your house, outside your house, saying we're not going to vote for joe biden because of what he is doing in israel? what do you say to voters who may be shaky on joe biden about the stakes of this one-on-one matchup? >> i don't know if they are progressives outside my house. i don't know who they are outside my house. >> protesting his handling of the war. >> i know my -- i represent my

district a long time. i have got the biggest vote of any democrat in california. they said you are not reflecting your district. no, i got the biggest vote of any democrat in california. so some of these people are -- i don't know who they are. some are the usual suspects, but largely they are -- i don't know what they are. nonetheless, for those who are saying that, oh, you want donald trump? donald trump of muslim ban fame? you want donald trump who says he wants people coming from nice countries? you want donald trump who is anti-lbgtq, anti-women's right to choose? you want donald trump who was standing in the way of the republicans in the house of representatives for giving humanitarian assistance to the palestinians, to the tune of billions of dollars? what is their agenda?

some tv is spontaneous, sincere and real and organic. some of it, i make a distinction between astroturf and grassroots. and some is astroturf. who benefits from it? donald trump. who benefits from donald trump? putin. in my view, there is a connection there. >> we will be talking much more as this election year goes on. speaker emerita nancy pelosi, thank you. >> we are going to win the house, the president had be re-elected, and chuck schumer feels good about the senate. so we just have to -- we made a decision to win. we will win. our democracy is at stake. >> thank you very much, madam speaker. great to see you. >> nice to see you. our third hour of "morning joe" continues right now. former president trump compared himself in a truth

social post to the late south african president nelson mandela. if there is anything truth social users hate is when you make them google something. former first lady melania trump finally got to meet an actual billionaire. >> okay. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, april 9th. donald trump is running out of options to delay his hush-money trial. we will have expert legal analysis on the last-ditch effort by his legal team days before jury selection is supposed to start. meanwhile, several retired generals, admirals, and former top defense officials are calling on the supreme court to reject trump's immunity claim in the election interference case. we will go through that stark

warning. and uconn is celebrating back-to-back national titles after another domination last night. >> yeah, dominating performance, willie. >> it was. it was a dominating win. 75-60 was the final score. back-to-back national championships for dan hurley and the program he built at uconn. the word competent has to be underdiscovered. won by an average 23 points a game in this tournament. all their winsdy double digits. all of their wins in last year's tournament were by double digits. the strategy last night, give zach edey, the superstar player of the year, his points. he scored 37 points. effectively, no one else did. that was the strategy. they made one three-pointer, purdue. the second best three-pointing team in the country. the strategy pays off. uconn back to back. >> edie got 37. the rest of the team, 23. you're right.

this was a drama-free championship game last night. they grabbed control in the first half. the second half they sort of cruised to victory. congratulations to uconn. this is -- someone growing up in new england in the '80s and '90s. he never expected it would be the home of the most dominant program in men's sports, women's, too, final four game this week. congrats to them. the best team all year and deserving. >> wire to wire, best team wins. no cinderella in the tournament just like the women's game the other night when south carolina finished their 38 no undefeated season. we got the rate u ratings for that game. 18.7 million people watched that game. it was the single most watched basketball game, including men's, women's, and the nba, in the last five years. outstripping all sports except like the nfl and olympics and major events like that.

that number to go up today. was the preliminary report. it peaked at 24 million people watching the game. underscoring an incredible season, important season, watershed season led by south carolina and of course bay caitlin clark in that game. >> so very cool. so very cool. 18.7 million. almost as much as "way too early." >> almost. >> olympics, world cup, "way too early." >> exactly. >> the kids call wte. >> you know what people watched as well? >> what? the eclipse. >> we had our glasses on. we were waiting. >> i love this thing. >> we were grumpy about it. and people said, mika -- in the middle of the day -- >> stop it. >> look at this. look at this. what is this? like a toilet bowl. >> no, stop it. that's not what i saidments

sweetie, it's the eclipse. >> it was incredible. people got together. they were excited about it. there were eclipse parties. >> why do you care so much now? >> no, i just think -- no, i was not. i think it's great kind of sense of community that the eclipse brought together and it's kind of a fascinating thing and i love the reaction that animals have. they all went to bed. >> that's what we were thinking. yeah, the animals. it's about the animals. now -- >> serious. >> willie, i will say, we are, you know, because, well, we are hermits, we don't know that people get together and do things. and so when heard we heard this was a communable thing -- >> that's nice. and our big hearted ep, alex, when he is telling us, wow, it was really moving -- >> you know you have a problem. >> if alex is more moved than you are on anything -- >> yeah. look at this. >> kinda cool. >> very good communal thing.

of course, yeah. so exciting all those people. >> now have to wait 20 years. >> a lot of people in new york city, rooftops, rare moment where the city stops. across the country -- i, sadly, was not in the path of totality. the real heroes are the headline writers at the "new york post." this morning they tell us america mooned. >> that's good. >> even for a cynic, that's good. we christinand awent, got our glasses at warby parker. we didn't get the totality thing. it's cool to know that kids across the country were looking at the same thing. it was cool. >> my kids raced home. we went up, watched it. it was col. i think there is something, communal event. so rare these days. we all have our own silos, watch our different things.

rare that a single thing -- we are all on our phones. the footage from the areas in the totality is remarkable, things got dark, the temperature dropped. really, really special. now we have a few decades to wait until the next one. >> exactly. i will say i was, like, all my friends were sending me pictures. i am saying, this goes by really fast and you are on your phone taking a picture of it? right? like, you missed it. >> just watch it. >> just sayin'. like -- >> look at this. this is magic right here. >> yes, it is. okay. >> look at that. >> speaking of magic -- >> yeah? with us this morning we have pulitzer prize-winning column nest eugene robinson and look at this, congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany with us, and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. >> this is something. this lineup is something.

>> really. >> magic. >> like the eclipse. >> take a picture. >> i want to take a picture of this. >> put your glasses on. >> okay. let's get to our top story. we have a lot to get to this morning. we start with -- [ bell ringing ] >> joe! >> facing backlash for his position on abortion, mika. >> after months of teasing a statement, trump spoke about the issue yesterday in a four-minute video posted to truth social. this is donald trump talking about abortion. here is part of it. >> many people have asked me what my position is on abortion and abortion rights, especially since i was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars, both sides, wanted and, in fact, demanded. be ended. roe v. wade. they wanted it ended. it must be remembered that the

democrats are the radical ones on this position because they support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month. the concept of having an abortion in the later months and even execution after birth, and that's exactly what it is, the baby is born, the baby is executed after birth. it is unacceptable and almost everyone agrees with that. my view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. many states be different. many will have a different number of weeks or some will have more conservative than others and that's what they will be. at the end of the day, this is all about the will of the people. now it's up to the states to do right thing. like ronald reagan, i am

strongly in favor of exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. you must follow your heart of this issue, but remember you must also win elections to restore our culture. >> you know, willie, there are so many things wrong with this. i mean, so many lies that he told. first of all, let's start with unsome of the most obvious lies, willie. he says that all -- that all legal scholars -- all legal scholars thought that roe v. wade should have been overturned. that's not true. it's a huge lie. a small number of legal scholars thought that there were many legal scholars across this spectrum that said it wasn't the most well reasoned decision. but they weren't calling for the overturning of roe v. wade. more importantly, he talked about the will of the people. you just look. i said this before. you can just look across the decades and one poll after

another poll, when you ask people, do you want roe v. wade to be overturned? it's like 30%. 31%. 32%. it's always a radical minority. and in the case of do you want roe v. wade to stay in place? the number was 70, 71, 72% when the supreme court overturned it. so that's false. he talks about the will of the people. i mean, what's so shocking here is that when you only have a third of the people wanting to overturn a constitutional precedent, you know, of 49, 50 years? that's a radical move. and so this -- and, of course, the biggest lie out of all of that is the whole idea that democrats are running around wanting babies to be executed after birth. again -- >> i mean, it's so stupid, it's difficult to get -- i mean, he is just -- >> it is so stupid. >> so stupid. >> we had a republican on this show, not going to name his

name, and neither is mika, where we kept pressing and asking, how many abortions are performed in the third trimester? how many -- i don't know. i don't know. yeah, you don't know, because it's like next to zero. but donald trump lies, lies. you know, i saw something -- dan pfeiffer was talking about the fact that donald trump last week said that joe biden snorted cocaine before the state of the union address. that would have been on the front page of the "new york times," "the washington post," "the wall street journal," every other newspaper in america if he had -- if anybody else, any other candidate running for president had said so crazy. everybody just blew past it. and he is allow to give abortion statements where he is lying through his teeth constantly. people are just -- they don't try to make him sound like a normal candidate. trump came out saying that he is

a big champion of federalism and wants to keep it at the state level and he is -- no. you've got to talk about this. the crazy lies, which is what the guy is doing every day and what he did in this speech. by the way, even though he was lying through his teeth constantly about abortion, he ended up pissing off people on both sides. >> he did. democrats didn't like what he said. pro-life republicans hated what he said. they want a national abortion ban. he said nothing about that. he said my hands are clean this now. it's a states rights issue. that's the statement you get, the one from former president trump, when you are completely unprincipled on something, when you are pro-choice, by his own words, he said he was pro-choice for a long time. when he got into politics to run as a republican, pro-life. he has been all over the place. that exchange with chris matte

in 2016, should a woman to who gets an abortion be published? he paused. the gears are turning. yes, women should be punished. he doesn't believe anything on this or maybe he is just pro-choice and he unleashed this. let's be clear, gene robinson. donald trump has taken credit for and bragged about appointing the three supreme court justices who got rid of roe v. wade. this was an achievement for him, his supporters, people who wanted this for 50 years. now that he has seen the fallout, the political consequences he is trying to have it both ways and mitigate the political damage, saying we have to win elections, be careful what you do in the states. i did this. i caused this. i don't have what i'm seeing because of it. be careful what you do in the states. all over the place yesterday. >> all over the place, an came out with a statement that makes nobody happy. you're absolutely right. let me endorse what joe said about the lies and how we just

sort of blow past the accusations of infanticide and all of this crazy stuff that he comes out with. but in the end, he came down on a position that, obviously, pro-choice americans aren't going to like and that pro-life americans hate, and started hating on immediately. there were pro-life groups that came out and talking about how disappointed they were with this. lindsey graham, of all people, came out -- >> oh, my. >> he supports a 15-week national abortion ban. and he came out and said he respectfully disagrees with trump and trump spent the rest of the afternoon just, you know, filleting the skin of lindsey graham and going after him in a vicious way that he hasn't done

since the last time he filleted lindsey graham. but that was some years ago. he just went nuts. he is very touchy on this. i think this may have some -- the timing of of this and everything may have something to do with florida, the fact that abortion is going to be on the ballot in florida, a state that donald trump has to win. and, you know, every time -- every place abortion has been on the ballot in this country, including states that are redder than florida, citizens have voted to enshrine abortion rights in their state constitutions. you know, they'll probably do that in florida, too. >> yeah much. >> every time. you look at the states, kentucky, kansas, wisconsin, every time it's been -- ohio. every time that it's been

remotely, remotely a part of an election or a ballot measure, the pro-choice side wins overwhelmingly. >> support for abortion was always there and growing the past decade. i think since the overturning of roe v. wade crystalized the issue for anybody who was on the fence about it or didn't feel they had, you know, any men who didn't feel as connected with it. now we are seeing the consequences of these rights being taken away 50 years of rights that our daughters and sons as families don't have. and they are brutal. they are very specific. they are a matter of life and death. and donald trump is on the wrong side of every position that exists practically on this. in a moment, we will show you -- >> can i go to charlie real quick before we go to the lindsay clips? >> oh, yes. >> charlie, quickly, and middle of the week is right.

there are so many people that are -- that were pro-life before dobbs that now understand the importance of roe because of the radicalism in the states. i always, you know, it cost me nothing to just take the position, eh, pro-life, da-da-da, because there was that life there. when i formulated, you know, my thoughts of it, governors were like, george in ohio, mitt romney in massachusetts, jeb bush in florida, and the thought was, well, you know, maybe it will be 15, 16, 17 weeks with exceptions. that's just not the world we live in anymore. i must say this is post-dobbs you look and you see the radicalism. these old white fat men in mississippi or somewhere else

that are driving women out of medical care because they want to appeal to the most extreme elements of their base. yeah, there are a lot of people. and i would guess you're like me. there are a lot of people who have really been transformed by the radicalism of the last three, four years. >> well, it's interesting watching donald trump. as willie pointed out, the first thing you need to understand about him, he is unprincipled on this issue. he doesn't like it and he is very, very worried about what you are describing. he is worried about the political fallout. so he is trying to neutralize an issue that cannot be neutralized. so this is one of those rare moments when leaving aside the lies, you can actually see his thought process. he doesn't want a national ban. he wants to make sure that they support all of the exceptions for rape, incest, health of the

mother, reassure people about if. now he is in a position where, on the one hand, he wants to claim credit for overturning roe v. wade and on the other hand, you know, but the pro-life movement, i mean, their reaction was deep disappointment. what he is counting on and he is probably right is the people like lindsey graham and the pro-life movement will roll over, that they will say, okay, we are disappointed but we are going to support it. he is taking them for granted. i guess the question is, whether or not -- and in his mind, he thinks he taking the least bad option, the most pragmatic option. as you point out, i think the politics of this have changed. it's is very unpredictable. he is worried about it. the polls indicate where the trend is going. and now he is thinking he has taken it off the table, go to turn it around and talk about how radical the democrats are. what is his first opening

gambit? the democrats want to execute babies after birth, which is so ludicrous, extreme, eye rolling, but that's his first play on this. >> and he seems very uncomfortable in this entire statement. he is confused by it himself, which doesn't surprise me. there are so many, so many underlining factors to why he is confused by it. >> well -- >> or conflicted. i'll say that. >> and you look at wisconsin, where charlie's from, here is a state that's 50/50. a lot of catholics in wisconsin. they had a judge's race that everybody there knew that conservatives knew, liberals knew, it's going to shape the future of the supreme court there. and because, again, because of abortion, there is a landslide victory. a landslide victory. >> absolutely. >> for a very liberal judge who most likely would have been in a

very tight race but for the issue of abortion. >> but upending roe, donald trump has undermined the health care of women across the country. and for their families to see that happening, playing out in real time, everybody now knows that it's more than whatever donald trump tried to -- it's so stupid, i can't even repeat it. i won't. it's the last-ditch effort for them to hold on to this issue by saying something about abortion happening in the ninth month, which it doesn't. >> by the way -- >> we're talking about termination -- >> that never happens. what does happen is there are bans, six-week bans right now. there are total bans. there are -- you look at texas, the law is getting more extreme. you are talking about bounties now, the discussion of bounties.

jackie, he can try to paint democrats as extreme by lying about all of these babies being executed, but it's just a lie. the numbers don't hold up. but what people do see in their lives every day is they see people having to make difficult decisions. they read about women every day being denied health care, being put in the most horrible of positions. and the biden campaign very effectively is running ads of some of those women who, unlike donald trump's lies, really have suffered because trump, quote, terminated roe v. wade. >> yeah, joe. i mean, if you want to look at the mission already, lock at the debate about ivf, in vitro fertilization, and the way that this conversation and what donald trump unleashed during his presidency has caused to

this important reproductive support system for women who are struggling to conceive. my heart is actually beating a little bit more than usual right now because i'm someone who has gotten through ivf. and the fact that women are now faced with this issue in the states where you have people who initially were in support of overturning roe v. wade and have come out, house republicans saying that they are in support of it and this wasn't what they had, you know, initially intended when it came to -- seeping to other different parts of trying to legislate reproductive rights. but this is something that has been kicked to the states, and states are now -- these republican-controlled legislatures passing these laws that are row stricting access whether in small ways or big ways. they are things that are causing, you know, this paralysis amongst healthcare providers in states who are

worried about the legal repercussions of going against some of the legal turmoil playing out in congress regardless of whether or not donald trump wants to take ownership of this or whether he is, you know, again just deciding to punt it to the states, wait until he gets to the presidency, and then see what that again unleashes and whether or not house republicans or republicans in the senate, depending what happens this november, decide to actually bring an abortion ban to the floor to take a vote on it. then that is when this decision, you kno -- just look at donald trump's past in terms of what he says and what actually happens when something is put on his desk and he is faced with what is most politically expedient for him to do at the time. coming up, can israel free its hostages while also vowing to invade another city in gaza? richard haass weighs in next on "morning joe." oe."

we're traveling all across america talking to people about their hearts. ooh, take this exit. how's the heart? i feel like it's good. you feel like it's good? how do you know when it's time to check in on your heart?

how do you know? let me show you something. it looks like a credit card, but it is the kardiamobile card. that is a medical-grade ekg. want to see how it works? yeah. put both thumbs on there. that is your heart coming from the kardiamobile card. wow! with kardiamobile card you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. kardiamobile card is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99! oh really? you could carry that in your wallet! of course you can carry it in your wallet, right? yes, yes. checking your heart anytime, anywhere has never been easier. don't wait. get kardiamobile card for just $99 at kardia.com or amazon. hi, i'm kevin, get kardiamobile card for just $99 at kardia.com and i've lost 152 pounds on golo. (uplifting music) my biggest concern when i started golo was food. i'm a big guy and, shockingly, i like to eat.

i was worried it was gonna be like other diets that were bland and restrictive. but with golo, my meals are great, and i'm no longer hungry like i was before. i'm so pleased i gave golo a shot. don't wait, go to golo.com. (♪♪) [shaking] itchy pet? (♪♪) with chewy, save 20% on your first pharmacy order so you can put an end to the itch. get flea and tick medication delivered right to your door.

ceasefire negotiations between israel and hamas remain at a deadlock. despite the rising optimism voiced by israeli officials, negotiators have left cairo with no deal in sight. hamas says the latest proposal does not meet its demands. the terrorist group wants israel to withdraw its troops from the gaza strip. hamas has not completely rejected the proposal. it says it's still reviewing it, and will inform mediators of its official response. meanwhile, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says a date has been set to launch a ground offensive in the southern gaza city of rafah. netanyahu made the announcement in a video statement yesterday, saying this is needed to ensure victory over hamas.

he did not reveal when the operation will begin. it comes just a day after israeli defense forces withdrew troops from southern gaza's largest city further shrinking its presence in gaza. the biden administration has been warning israel to not launch an offensive in rafah, saying it will worsen the already dire humanitarian crisis. more than 1 million people have sought refuge in the city and there is famine and disease spreading. >> let's bring in richard haass, the author the weekly newsletter home and away. great newsletter available on substack. richard, let's start with the basic. sometimes i feel like we jump ahead. some people aren't following daily, they don't get the right message out of it. some people, of course, on the trump right that are just

disingenuous and cynical. let's start with first principles. on october 7th, hamas attacked, they brutalized, raped, killed jews in the worst slaughter since the holocaust. and they have been holding hostages. this could have ended if they released hostages a long time ago. that's a real reality. another reality is, hamas can never run gaza again ever. if they aren't completely destroyed, and that's going to be extraordinarily difficult, because of their allies around the region, they can't run gaza again. with that as the reality, how is that balanced with the other reality that can't have another 10,000, 20,000 palestinians civilians killed in gaza and fighting when they are on the

verge of famine right now? how are those two realities balanced? >> well, joe, you're right to juxtapose those realities. a third reality is the one of hostages. and that's why you see these competing stories coming out. you have got this debate in israel about should take priority. is it the continued military operations against hamas or is it to agree to ceasefire and get hostages out. and then the problem is hamas is pushing back against the ceasefire. its raised demands. there has been one ceasefire pause over the last six months for an exchange of hostages and some palestinian political prisoners. and as you heard in the opening report that mika read, hamas raised its requirements. it's now looking not simply for exchanges, but wants an end to israeli operation. netanyahu is getting it from

both sides. he is getting from pressure from joe biden essentially saying don't go ahead. you have more than 1 million palestinians packed into a small part of southern gaza. if you do that, there will be large numbers of civilian casualties no matter what. last but not least, netanyahu said he needs to finish the job. i am not sure that's possible. imagine they go into rafah and kill another couple of thousand hamas fighters. they also kill several thousand civilians. what then? what then? what happens then the day after? you still have the fundamental question of an occupation, alienated local population, hamas will come back in some areas, radicalism will rise. i don't understand, as they used to say in iraq, how does this end? i don't understand the connection between israeli military action and the idea of leaving something politically that you can co-exist with. >> well, one thing we understand

is, if israel withdraws from gaza, hamas declares vict and i they are allowed to do whatever they want to do with the hostages under the tunnel. i understand israel not leaving gaza until, of course, the hostages are secured and hamas is destroyed. one thing, though, i don't quite understand is this idea that we have to continue -- we have to have a full-scale attack on rafah to get the hostages. you know, that seems to be the argument from netanyahu's government. that's not what hostage families are saying. what happens is they go into rafahnd and they get close to the hamas leaders that are still hiding out in rafah. the hostages will be killed. there really does have to be a middle way. i know that will enrage the extremists on all sides. but going in and going in to rafah and killing 10,000 more civilians and killing more members of hamas, i need someone

to explain to me -- i know the threat of that actually makes hamas negotiate in a more effective way, but the actual going in and the killing of 10,000 more civilians and getting closer to those hamas leaders that are in rafah, i don't see how that helps facilitate the release of the hostages. >> the reason you don't see it is because it doesn't. i think israel has reached a fork in the road where it has to decide whether the strategy is hamas first or hostage first. if it's hamas first, whether i agree with it or not, i tend not to, then you would have a new offensive in southern gaza. if it's hostage first, you would hold off that. you would try to negotiate something, or even, and that's a big decision, have to decide to essentially call off the rest of the military operations. i don't think that's in the cards.

so israel's caught. the reason that you can't see how to balance these two is i don't think you can. israel now has reached a point where there is a tremendous tension between its military ambitions and ambitions to get the hostages out and hamas realizes that, which is why they are changing up. coming up, jack smith has a new message for the supreme court. what he is saying about donald trump's claims of presidential immunity. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪ with fastsigns, signage that gets you noticed turns hot lots into homes. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement.

dale used to hide his smile. now... it's swishy time. he uses therabreath anticavity mouthwash for 24 hour cavity protection. try therabreath mouthwash. it's a better mouthwash! look for therabreath for kids in stores today.

president trump losing another last-ditch effort to delay his upcoming hush-money trial. trump's legal team filed an 11th hour request to halt the proceedings arguing that an impartial jury can't be selected because of pretrial publicity.

the judge denied trump's request for a delay without explanation in a one-sentence order yesterday. his team is also pushing to move the case out of manhattan. yesterday's ruling does not affect his underlying change of venue motion. meanwhile, the judge overseeing the hush money case sent a letter to trump's lawyers and the manhattan d.a.'s office outlining jury selection. the judge provided attorneys with a list of 42 questions potential jurors will be asked, including whether they have ever attended a trump rally. or if they belong to groups like the proud boys or antifa. trump's attorneys wanted to ask potential jurors whether they like the former president, but the judge called that question irrelevant. but potential jurors will be asked about media consumption and whether they read "the new york times," watch fox news, or

use truth social. the questionnaire does not ask about party affiliation, political contributions, or voting history. in the federal election interference case, special counsel jack smith is urging the supreme court to reject former president trump's claim that he should be granted absolute immunity. in a 66-page filing yesterday, smith and his team of prosecutors argued that criminal law does apply to a president. and that there are no presidential powers that would entitle trump to immunity in this case. prosecutors also stated that, quote, history likewise refutes trump's arguments, citing president richard nixon's watergate scandal as a precedent. trump's team made a case for absolute immunity in a filing last month to the high court,

stating, the presidency cannot retain its, quote, vital independence if a president can face criminal prosecution after leaving office. and more than a dozen former top defense officials have filed a brief to the u.s. supreme court opposing trump's push for immunity from prosecution. the 38-page amicus brief includes officials from democratic and republican administrations dating back more than 50 years as well as retired four-star generals from all branches of the military and admirals from the u.s. coast guard. in the brief the former leaders warned, quote, presidential immunity from criminal prosecution would threaten the military's role in american society, our nation's constitutional order, and our national security. they also argue presidential

immunity poses a threat to democracy and would place commanders and their troops in the impossible situation of having to choose between obeying a commander-in-chief, giving an unlawful order, or obeying their oath to the constitution. the supreme court is set to hear oral arguments about trump's immunity argument on april 25th. we'll be watching for that. willie, lot going on. it appears at least for now that trump's hush-money trial is on schedule. >> yeah, that was slapped down quickly. that was a lot to get through. luckily we have help. lisa reuben is here along with chuck rosenberg. good morning. let's start at the beginning. we'll take these in order. start with the trump team's bid to delay this trial, which has been the strategy across the board. this one, though, slapped aside

by the appellate justice very quickly. >> part of it. trump yesterday made some filings with the appeals court in new york asking to delay the trial on two grounds, one, because the venue is inappropriate and trump cannot get a fair trial. the court is going to reconvene to hear the second part, which is trump's appeal of the gag order in that case. it's still unclear whether he's also asking to stay the trial while an appeals court considers whether judge's ruling is appropriate. >> the gag order, donald trump

continues to talk about the trial, talking about the judge himself. >> and he's allowed to do that. under the terms of the gag order, he is allowed to do that, as odius as we might think that is. >> it does. look, i can simplify this a bit. what the judge is trying to do is find a jury that can be fair. you can watch fox news and be fair. you can watch msnbc and be fair. you can vote one way or the other and be fair. a lot of people are eligible to serve as jurors. you need 12 people who can be fair. the questionnaire is designed

exactly to do that. can you sit, can you listen, do you have other responsibilities that may distract you? if you can sit and listen and pay attention, can you be fair? >> does any of this appear to threaten to hold up this trial in a significant way? >> a little bit, yes, and a little bit no. lisa and i were talking. my experience is the federal prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia, it never took me more than 45 minutes to pick a jury. we didn't use questionnaires. it would be extraordinarily unusual for that to happen in federal court. it takes longer to get through 42 questions with however people are on the panel, could take a

week or two. this is not an overly complex process. it's going to be managed by the judge and they're going to get through it. it shouldn't be an enormous delay. >> might be a slight bump in the road but it's going ahead. >> it is. >> let's turn to the filing by special prosecutor jack smith on the question of immunity. as we look at how this federal election interference case plays out with oral arguments set to begin in a couple of weeks, what does that filing yesterday mean to the larger case. >> this is jack smith's one and only opportunity in writing to respond to the trump's arguments in supreme court. many of the things they say in this brief we've seen them say twice before. they sent it to judge chutkan

and then they sent it to the d.c. circuit. what's new here is the audience and how jack smith has pitched his argument to account for the possibility that there are folks on the court who won't find that the president could be immune for official acts, but might find some of what's been ledged here could also be official. you see jack smith trying to account for those contingencies and build in a number of backstops. this is largely a private conspiracy designed to forward keeping trump in office, which is a campaign act, not an official one. >> how are these arguments going to be received? >> i think they should be received as they were before,

particularly for immunity. there may be some narrow band of cases in which a president, any president, does something in his or her official capacity for which they ought not be held responsible. the answer to both questions is absolutely not. it's an official act within his official duties as president. you might want to carve out some small number of cases where a president takes an official act and ought to be immune. coming up, we'll show you the new add for the biden campaign calling out donald trump for the near death of a texas woman denied abortion services. woman denied abortion services

[coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪

ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful.

business. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning.

the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. guy put it, it's very easy to do. >> welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. joining us now, former white house director of communications to president obama jennifer palmieri. she and claire mccaskill are cohosts of the msnbc podcast "how to win 2024." donald trump taking heat from both sides of the aisle this morning over his plans for abortion if he is reelected.

yesterday the former president released a video attempting to re-explain yet another position on the issue. >> that didn't work out. >> he also seemed very uncomfortable. he wasn't owning it. he wasn't feeling it. >> because he doesn't really believe in anything. you can look at his history. i mean, again, he just keeps waffling around. >> history? just check out the body language. garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: donald trump is under fire this morning from across the political spectrum after unveiling his latest stance on abortion, leave any restrictions to the state. >> many states will be different, some will be more conservative than others and that's what they will be. >> reporter: the former president also claiming credit for the 2022 supreme court decision that overturned roe v wade and returned the abortion

issue to the states, some of which have enacted near total bans on the procedure. >> donald trump just endorsed every single state ban on reproductive care nationwide. >> reporter: the president's campaign also releasing a new ad, highlighting the story of a texas woman denied medical care after a miscarriage, placing blame on the state's abortion ban. mr. trump also criticized from the right including by his former vice president mike pence, who slammed him on social media for not calling for a national ban. writing, quote, president trump's retreat on right to life is a slap in the face to the millions of pro life americans who voted for him in 2016 and 2020. for mr. trump, monday's announcement a step in the long public evolution on abortion. >> i'm pro-choice. >> i'm pro life.

>> do you believe in punishment for abortion? >> there has to be some punishment for abortion. >> i don't frankly care. >> please allow me. there has to be some form of punishment. >> let's punish women, then punish the doctors. >> he's punishing the women. it's happened. thanks to the overturning of roe, women across america are being severely punished not just for abortions, but for the health care that they need, terminations, d & cs, even ivf is on the table. what's next? bleeding out in a parking lot, that's on the table now. being told to go home and wait until you give birth to a baby that will gasp and die, that's on the table now. that's happened. that's where we're at. so, yes, you're right, donald trump, there has to be some sort of punishment in your sick mind,

and you have delivered. >> he punished women. there's no doubt about that. it's not just women. we hear one horror story after another, a 10-year-old girl having to flee the state of ohio after being raped by an illegal immigrant, having to flee the state because she feared prosecution if she didn't have a state-forced birth. this sounds like the old soviet union. you also had in the news, i believe, a 13-year-old girl who was raped. >> all the confusion about the state laws and bans on abortion did not give her the chance to get the abortion she needed after being raped in a yard. >> she was raped in a yard. >> you have delivered, donald trump. >> out of fear of prosecution, the 13-year-old girl also force

ed birth. i think this is one of the reasons why americans are looking at this issue again. the far right has always claimed the high road. there is no high road here when you look at women and girls suffering, being denied health care. it's not just the women. it's the husbands, the partners, the children. it's everybody being punished now by these extreme laws. and donald trump, who tried to muddy it up yesterday, but he didn't muddy it up. he's still the guy bragging about terminating a woman's right to choose. >> the idea that he muddied it up is nonsense, because he's already done the ultimate thing

that took away women's rights. he's already responsible for overturning roe v wade. he didn't just embrace all the extreme state bans yesterday, he took credit for them. i think why he appeared so uncomfortable is because he knows what he's done and he knows what is coming. there's a lot of talk yesterday about -- it's just nonsense to suggest that he's in any way moderating his position, because he had already done the most extreme thing you can do to take these rights away. he said he wants there to be exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. that doesn't happen when you have a six-week ban. it's not possible when you have a six-week ban. that is just a ban. that is what he's responsible for and what he embraced. in terms of the politics of

this, a democratic pollster said yesterday on twitter, just summed it up in one sentence, there's one position that wins elections, and it is to protect abortion rights. that is it. that is the position that wins elections when it comes to this issue. we've sort of come back around on this issue over the last 30 years to say, you know, fundamentally women should have rights and we should trust them to make these decisions. >> let's bring in the democratic governor of new york kathy hochul, a member of president biden's reelection campaign advisory board. governor, thanks for being on this morning. trump trumpeted that he was the one with his three judges appointed to the supreme court who overturned roe v wade. it was one of his proudest achievements, he said. now if you watch the video and

his subsequent statements, he is running away from it because he's seeing the political consequences of what he achieved. what do you see in that statement from the former president yesterday? >> thank you for having me on the show again. i have one simple statement. how do you know when donald trump is lying? when his lips are moving. that has been played out time and time again. women don't trust him. you're going to say something in march, you support a national ban. in april, the polls don't look so good, so you're backing off, and you're going to lose evangelicals. you're going to keep going back and forth until election day. donald trump has been indicted all over this country, including right here in the state of new york. he just indicted himself in the eyes of women all over america, and he is going to be paid back for what he's done to them.

the gig is up, donald trump. you just went too far and no one believes you. >> there are some abortion issues on several states' ballots this november, including the state of florida, the state of north carolina, potential battlegrounds democrats feel like could be in play because of this issue. weigh in how you forecast this playing out between now and election day. >> i would love to have abortion on every state ballot in america. this is an opportunity for us to be heard. now, new york state, we're protected here in the state of new york. i'm the first female governor of new york. i'm the first governor who's actually been pregnant, someone who didn't even know i was pregnant for the first few months. six weeks is absurd. florida sometimes votes red, but there's a lot of people from

other parts of the country who settled there, and their voices will be heard. i feel much more confident about the politics in floridabecause of this. the record is there. when people have a chance to voice their position on abortion, they stand with the women, unlike donald trump. this is a jolt for the election. we won't know for sure exactly by what margins, but this is a big boost for joe biden, and trump fell into this. he should have kept his mouth shut. we could say what day was the election really lost? it may have been the day that the solar eclipse occurred, and for just a few moments he thought he could block out the truth with his darkness. well, the truth will shine again, just like the sun came back out. >> in your state, you have passed abortion protections, but still women's rights could be taken away under a national

abortion ban. your state has some tough congressional races coming up in the fall. republicans took a number of seats away from democrats and helped give them the majority. are women in new york worried about a national abortion ban? is that likely to be an issue in these house races in new york? >> of course it will. we just saw that, a microcosm of what happened in november with the election of tom suozzi. tom suozzi ran against me in the democratic primary. i said, i want to know if i'm going to support you, will you stand strongly for women's rights to reproductive freed? and he did. he leaned into that in his special election and he won in a district that had been held by a republican. there you have the playbook. yes, talk about it, lean into it. this is an issue that resonates not just with women, but fathers

of daughters who want them to have the rights and people all across this country, because there's also the slippery slope that clarence thomas spoke about and alluded to that others can bring cases and strip away rights, not just the right to reproductive freedom we've had in this country for over 50 years, but other rights as well. this is the shot across the bow. if people don't wake up and pay attention, we'll have dire consequences. what i thought was one of the most effective political ads i've ever seen was joe biden's ad when he showcased the real pain that women all across america are now suffering. young husband and wives trying to have a baby and what happened when she couldn't get the care when that baby was miscarried. this is painful for familied. it's all because of donald

trump, who took credit for putting those justices in place and judges in place like texas that are trying to take other rights, going after ivf, mifepristone. i think the playbook is clear. these are american rights that we cherish. >> this is about rights. nancy pelosi said last hour it's about freedom. i loved what we just heard, which is, you can't say you're for any exceptions for rape or for incest or life of the mother if at the same time you're saying, i agree with what all the states are doing. that's no protection at all from the extremists who are passing legislation that make young girls who have been raped flee their states. it was just meaningless.

>> yeah. donald trump takes the credit for getting roe overturned. he brags about it. and the punishment that he told chris matthews that women should have, we're seeing that across the country now. we're seeing that in the ad that president biden has put out, a young couple suffering greatly because of the punishment that donald trump thinks women should endure instead of have the right to have abortion health care. new york governor kathy hochul, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> you know, he just washed his hand, actually. what he did basically was he washed his hands of this issue, of course in a way that upsets people on the right and the left and women on all sides of the political spectrum and people who love them. >> he'll never be able to wash his hands of the pain he has

caused to countless americans because of denying them the health care they need. president biden was in wisconsin yesterday, where he announced revised plans to address student loan forgiveness. under the new rules, the administration would eliminate accrued interest on loans. the relief plan would also forgive the debts of some public service workers, borrowers who have been paying for roughly 20 years and those experiencing financial hardship. the white house says more than 30 million americans would see their balances reduced under the plan. biden discussed the proposal during a visit to the college town of madison. >> i will never stop to deliver debt relief from hardworking americans. it's for the good of our economy that's growing stronger and stronger by freeing millions of americans from this crushing student debt, it means they can

finally get on with their lives, instead of their lives being put on hold. >> this isn't the first action the president has taken on student debt relief. >> madison, obviously a college town well selected for a message like this. the biden camp has told me they've done polling where they know they have issue now with some young voters. the war in gaza is part of it. others suggest biden has not followed through on his promise to alleviate student debt. the biden catch says we've done our part, but it's the courts that have knocked us down. i think this is a messaging issue. i think we're going to hear the president talk about this a lot between now and november. wisconsin is always a razor thin margin of victory. many election projections suggest it's the tipping point

state. we know how close it will be. the biden camp trying to shore up the base as they head into the fall, because they feel that independent swing voter is heading their way. meanwhile, shares of trump media have erased all of their gains since they began trading on the nasdaq last month. the stock closed down more than 8% monday after being down 11% earlier in the day. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. great to see you. was this inevitable? you get the excitement and inflation on that first day, and it's been all downhill from here, especially for a company that has no revenue? >> maybe it's inevitable. the question is how quickly it

goes lower? this is a company that just on the basics isn't worth nearly what it's worth today, about $2.9 billion down from $6 billion. what is it worth? this is a company that makes $4 million in revenue and loses $58 million a year. just to put the math on the table. the issue about the timing of how quickly it comes down is important, though, because former president trump will only get to have access to any of this money at all come september or if he gets permission from the board of this company to either sell shares early or to take a loan against it. all the things we've been talking about are almost immaterial to the financing campaign for president trump. the interesting thing is going to be to see what is the value of this thing a month, two

months and three months from now, when and if he may get access to some of it. is that number going to be $2 billion, $1 billion? what does that even look like? and does it start to go up again? does the value go up again? if that were to be the case, it would probably indicate there are more people out there that are effectively doing this not as an investment but as a way to funnel campaign finances to him. we've never seen anything like it. it's the most unusual sort of vehicle to do something like this. it raised national security questions about who, in fact, is investing in this stock and how that money could potentially in the future get to him, if it does at all. >> it's a garbage stock. you've had prominent people come on your show and say it's just a joke, it's garbage stock.

twitter, i remember when elon musk was buying twitter. that's a horrible investment. if we can all see that with twitter, then truth social, which is just a cheap takeoff of twitter, that's not going to work. speaking of elon musk, warnings about a.i. then you have jamie dimon warning about rough days ahead, the possibility of 8% interest rates for years to come, kind of singing my tune talking about fiscal recklessness that has gripped this country for the past 20 years, but especially since donald trump became president. >> look, i'll take the jamie dimon side real quick first, which is, he is very worried about inflation for the long-term at higher rates, because just about everything we're doing in this country is arguably inflationary. it's very hard to see how

inflation comes down. he's also talking about how a.i. and he's very much in agreement with elon musk about how quickly and game changing this may very well be for our economy. on one end, it may make our economy more, quote, unquote, productive. but what does productiity mean? it means there's more work for less money. you pay people a lot less or they don't have jobs. that's why this is so complicated in the future. the most provocative thing elon musk said in the last 24 hours is he believes a.i. in the next 12 months is going to be smarter than humans and five months from now may be smarter than all humans. i've been playing recently with claude, a competitor to chatgpt.

to the extent you think there's a linear line here about how much this is going to improve, 12 months from now it could really be quite a remarkable thing. sam altman who runs open a.i. calls a.i. sort of an incompetent helper. it's not always perfect, but a year or two from now it may be pretty close. >> let me ask you about google. have they recovered from their mess regarding content that was pushed into their a.i.? >> i think they're on their way to recovering. i think there's a lot of speculation about a deal that apple may ultimately end up use ing google's a.i. services to power its own. if that were the case, that would be a huge boon to google.

there's still lots of debate about the culture of google. there's a fascinating headline about what's going on inside google, which is, they're going to no longer allow employees to use message boards. they're allowed to use them. they're not allowed to use the down thumb icon, because too many people feel bad and there's too much debate going on inside these companies that's really not, frankly, about business. >> we're going to revisit that. so curious. andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. now to this norfolk southern has agreed to settle a class action lawsuit related to that train derailment and toxic chemical spill in east palestinian, ohio, back in 2023. if approved by the court, the rail operator will pay $600 million to resolve claims within a 20-mile radius of the

derailment site. norfolk southern says that money can be used to address any potential adverse effects. the settlement, however, stopped short of any admission of liability, wrongdoing or fault. the train derailed near the ohio/pennsylvania border last february. norfolk southern has already spent more than a billion dollars in its cleanup response. the environmental protection agency experts those efforts to be completed later this year. coming up on "morning joe," we'll be joined by miles taylor, the former trump administration official who in 2018 blew the whistle on presidential misconduct with an anonymous essay published in the "new york times." taylor later turned his warning about trump into a best-selling book. now he's back with an updated version, sounding the alarm about what a second trump term might look like. second trump tm mighlot ok like. on medicare?

have diabetes? with the freestyle libre 3 system... you'll know your glucose and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. now covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. visit freestylelibre.us/medicare. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. diabetes with insulin. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. i told myself i was ok

with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue... and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. abbvie could help you save.

live picture of a drizzly seattle as the sun comes up just about 6:30 in the morning. mariners off to a slow start. >> julio rodriguez off to a slow start, but i have faith he'll pick it up. that's a tough division. back in 2018, a trump administration official wrote an anonymous "new york times" opinion piece identifying himself as part of the resistance inside the administration. the author of the piece turned out to be miles taylor who served in the trump white house. he would go back to write a book called "blowback."

miles taylor joins us now. miles, it's good to see you. the original book was a look back at your experience and your time there and what you saw. the paperback looks ahead a bit to what a second trump administration might look like based on what you know about trump. what do you see coming if he is reelected? >> even more directly than that, the subtitle was a warning to save democracy from the next trump. we had to change the subtitle because we've incredibly made the mistake of putting him in the driver's seat for the republican party and the nomination. it's a warning to save democracy from trump's revenge. the concern is if he wins a second term, that is the watch word of a second term. he's made clear that retribution will be the theme of a second

term. if there's one point i would want to convey to your average american voter, it would be to expect a very different type of government under donald trump. in the first term, as everyone knows, we talked him out of a lot of ridiculous things, things that were immoral or illegal or unconstitutional. trump was looking toward reelection and avoided many of those very damaging actions. in the second term, he won't be talked out of it. i want you to imagine if you called 911 and instead of them saying what's your emergency, they say did you vote democrat or republican? that's what trump wants to do on a red state by blue state basis. if there was a hurricane, trump wanted to withhold funds from blue states and give red states. that's what happened to him in the oval office. he wanted to withhold from people who didn't support him.

that's not how government is supposed to work. >> what you're alluding to here is there won't be people like you next time around or general kelly or general mattis, people who served in the trump administration and did their best to at least contain his worst impulses. those people aren't going to be there in a second administration. you're going to have qanon supporters making decisions for the country. if you look at people who were around him and might be around him, how different is that group? >> i don't want to self-aggrandize because there were no heros inside the trump administration. there were only survivors. in a second term, it's not going to be heros or survivors. it's going to be supplicants. that's by design. donald trump realized he had far

too many people who went to bed and grew a conscience and pushed back. he doesn't want those people around. his preference is for the oval office to be an echo chamber. it's what he wants and what he'll get. at the end of the trump administration, the person that was your secretary of homeland security chad wolf was in the job for a year and a half. a federal judge concluded he was in that post illegally. he should have been affirmed by the senate. there weren't consequences. trump can put whoever the hell he wants into these jobs. >> let's talk about those that have broken from the trump ranks. it's a long list. even his former vice president mike pence has said he won't support him. yet, trump commands so much power in the republican party. he is the presumptive nominee. is there a tipping point from those who know him best? the warnings you deliver should

resonate but they're not. what do you think? >> you're absolutely right. i was joking with you guys during the break. i don't want to be here. i don't want to be talking about another trump book. we're so sick of this. i want to be talking about technology. i don't want to be talking about this, but we have to talk about this. people like me and others from the administration need to come forward and tell the stories as they saw them from the first term to warn americans about second term. will a tipping point happen? that's going to require people to stiffen their spines and come together. there are conversations behind the scenes about trying to get as many ex-trump administration officials as humanly possible to band together in one group. it's frustrating because there's a lot of people who don't want to come forward. hopefully that changes. hopefully you can see that cohort. in 2020 what we learned is it

works. when trump administration officials got together, what jake tapper called the largest group of ex-administration officials in american history to turn against a president, it had an impact. it showed disaffected republicans that it was okay to break from the tribe just this once and vote for a democrat. we saw that in the polls that showed a lot of republicans in swing states for the first time in their lives voting for a democratic president. in other words, they put country over party. >> jen has a question for you. >> i worked in two white houses and i know that when it looks from the outside as if it's chaotic on the inside, it's actually far more chaotic than it even appears to the outside observer. there were a lot of people in the trump administration who went in with concerns, but thought they could be kind of a guardrail.

somehow what you found was actually far worse than what you expected to see even when you had concerns about what you would see. what was it? was it just more extreme version of him than you expected? or was there something even more nefarious that we should be aware of? >> i'll say anyone who went into the trump administration and didn't know what to expect is either selling you something or lying. i went into that administration knowing at a minimum, it would be a pride-swallowing siege every day, but at a maximum it would probably be a career ender and certainly would mean that the plans that i had within the republican party and the national security community would be wrecked in some way. john kelly said, don't worry, it is not as bad as it looks, it is so much worse. it was clear from day one it was going to be reckless.

what did i see that surprised me? i saw a man in moments of decision or consequence talking about whether we were going to pursue an international agreement or not who made decisions on the basis of personal self-interest, but also made decisions recklessly that put lives in danger. i did not expect as a lifelong conservative to work for a republican president who didn't want to stand behind law enforcement officers, openly attacked law enforcement officers, openly blasted the free and open press, abrogated free trade agreements, backed away from nato. this was a guy in my eyes who was not a conservative and, in fact, was behaving in the least conservative way possible. if you think that first term was bad, my message would be you ain't seen nothing yet, because he didn't getwhat he wanted in that term. if you give him a second, he will. to me, this is civic insanity.

if insanity by definition is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, that is what we're up against right now as a country. if we think we're going to get a different result and a more benevolent trump, we're fooling ourself. >> the book is called "blowback" and it is out now. miles taylor, thank you. next, we'll take a look at what's making headlines in newspapers across the country, including how one state is trying to bring back something called zombie malls. we'll explain when "morning joe" comes right back. s right back

switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. hi, i'm chris and i lost 57 pounds on golo.

golo isn't complicated. i don't have to follow a restrictive diet, and i don't have to spend a lot of time making meals. using golo was truly transformative. it was easy, and inexpensive. generalized myasthenia gravis made my life a lot harder. but the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. ♪♪ vyvgart is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-achr antibody positive. in a clinical trial, vyvgart significantly improved most participants' ability to do daily activities when added to their current gmg treatment. ♪♪ most participants taking vyvgart also had less muscle weakness. and your vyvgart treatment schedule is designed just for you. in a clinical study, the most common side effects included urinary and respiratory tract infections, and headache. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions.

available as vyvgart for iv infusion and also as vyvgart hytrulo for subcutaneous injection. additional side effects for vyvgart hytrulo may include injection site reactions. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart. norman, bad news... may include injection site reactions. i never graduated from med school. what? but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... that's like $20 a month per unlimited line... i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc?

44 past the hour. time now for a look at the morning papers. the south florida sun sentinel reports spirit airlines is [m )çw

it turns out there's a lot of us, 55 million of us, 55 millio

exactly what happens. former first lady michelle obame said there is not a lot of conversation about menopause and the information is sparse. to say the least, i'll add. tracee ellis ross agrees saying there is noee information about it. there is shame,at talking about it, and naomi watts points out, i truly believe if menopause hadn't been such an off limits topic, when i first started experiencing stsymptoms, i woul have hadpt an easier transition. and i wrote about it, because i ended up in the hospital because i was so confused as to what thn symptoms were. joining t us now, chief medical adviser of ally women's health dr. sharon malone, leading obgyn and women's health advocate and author of the new book entitled "grown woman talk: your guide to getting and staying healthy." and i absolutely love this. we need to have some grown woman

talk.ro w don't we? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> it is great to have you on the show. and you say that the changing medical landscape, in the one we're in right now, it is every woman for herself. and i would say that's especially true given the overturning of e roe and the deeply disturbing scenarios than women are being put in right now because they don't have access to abortion healthcare. what are some of the other ways women are navigating on their own, where they really shouldn't be? s >> well, i think the nature of medicine has really changed over the past 20an years and no one s really told you that. so, the purpose of my book was really to give you the tools that you need to be a better advocate for yourself and for your families as you get through this really tumultuous and confusing time called mid-life. >> mm-hmm. well, and i think advocacy is actually just the beginning and

women do, you know, with know your value, i teach women to advocate forwo themselves becau i think theyel advocate for oth people a lot better than they do for themselves so we have to always emphasize self-advocacy. but i would say, we need more information.ed we need more doctors focusing on these topics, women over 40, over 50, over 60, a lot happens with our bodies during these times. more acceptance as naomi watts pointed out, we should be able to talk aboutd it. we should exchange stories and create a better understanding. there are other issues as well that i think women are really in the dark, fertility, egg freezing, surrogacy, you name it. and i know dr. jill biden is starting the women's health initiative which is good, but we need, doctors, we need more yo. what are some of the, do you think, main key areas where

womenwh need more science behin the medicine that they need to have practice on them?on >> you know, we need to have more research done in cardiovascular disease. we need more research done in alzheimer's. >> yes, iyes. >> because y these conditions affect women disproportionately. and i think something that women don't realize that two-thirds of all people in this country who haveis alzheimers are women. black women are twice as likely to have alzheimer's as white women and these are questions that are still unanswered. we have known these disparities exist, but no one has really taken the time and the effort to sort of answer these questions. and -- we're beyond that now.-- it is time to get some answers. >> so, women over 40, over 50, is there, a question you commoy get if you can get them to self-advocate? >> you know, the biggest question that women have in their 40s and 50s is, what is

wrong with s me, what is going , because the symptoms of menopause are so wide and so varied that, you know, when you pick them off one at k a time, u don't realize it is really part of a larger sort of constellation that is really called menopause and perimenopause. and once women recognize that that's what it zeis, it is a lo easier, you know, you don't feel that i'm, going crazy or i'm sk or i need care. it is just part of this universal experience that women will have. and i think that's something that you don't realize that menopause is inevitable, suffering is not, and it is the one -- the thing about women that you -- it is not an optional activity. if you're born withal ovaries, u will goar through menopause, on way or the other. >> i want topa pick that up, dr. malone, about the part about not having to suffer. because i think there was a assumption, this is a phase in life, ith got to ride it out unl it's over. what can women do to address some of theen things that they'

feeling and experiencing during this time? >> right. you know, and that, to me, is unfortunate that we have sort of incorporated theof language of suffering inof the experience o being a woman. and it starts with puberty, through childbirth and on through mid-life and i think that we have got to demand better. it is, like, whyma is suffering why is that our resting space, ever? and we have at our fingertips the most effective solution for menopausal iosystems, which is hormone therapy. took, a black eye a little bitn the past 20 years, but we're coming back around to it. and understanding that it is the most effective treatment for symptoms of menopause and actually prevention for some of the long-term health implications that we talk about, such asat cardiovascular diseas. and osteoporosis. >> the patch is back. >> it's back. >> yes, it is. the patch is back. the new book is entitled "grown woman talk: your guide to getting andyo staying healthy."

it's on sale today. t chief medical adviser of alloy women's health, dr. sharon malone, thank you so much. thanks for writing this book. wean need it. >> thank you. >> n thanks, doctor. >> all right, take care. and that does it for us this morning. anaat cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. a cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. treating both symptoms and inflammation with rescue is supported by asthma experts. finally, there's a modern way to treat symptoms and asthma attacks. airsupra is the first ever dual-action rescue inhaler that treats your asthma symptoms and helps prevent attacks. airsupra is the only rescue fda-approved to do both. airsupra is an as-needed rescue inhaler and should not be used as a maintenance treatment for asthma. get medical help right away if your breathing does not improve, continues to worsen, or for serious allergic reactions. using airsupra more than prescribed could be life threatening. serious side effects include heart problems, increased risk of thrush or infections.

welcome to the modern age of dual-action asthma rescue. ask your doctor if airsupra is right for you. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ engineered to minimize noise. and built for adventure. which can also be your own quiet cabin in the woods. the fully electric q8 e-tron. an electric vehicle that recharges you. how we get there matters.