so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> somebody gave me a procedure so i wouldn't have to experience another miscarriage.

the pain, the mess, the discomfort. and now we're talking about whether or not we should put that doctor in jail. this is outrageous. that we would even dignify the consideration of this type of ban. >> donald trump, this is what leaving it up to the states looks like. as arizona's supreme court upholds a civil war era near total abortion ban. state senator eva burch joins me in a moment. also, a new york court rejects donald trump's latest delay tactic as trump's legal arguments center on him somehow being above the law. >> plus, the maga grift. everybody's raking in the dough, especially son-in-law jared kushner, but trump's billionaire benefactors are expecting a few big favors in exchange for their

campaign cash. but we begin tonight with a dark reality for the women of arizona. and a cautionary tale for every american woman. courtesy of a blast from the past. back in 1863, two years into the civil war, arizona was not yet a u.s. state. that wouldn't happen until 1912. american women would not vote. that wouldn't happen until 1920. and the age of sexual consent for girls was just 10 years old. yes, i said 10. that year, arizona was declared a u.s. territory, with a governor appointed by president abraham lincoln. and the 27 white male legislators who wrote the rules for this brand-new territory had a very specific vision, using draconian laws to bring order to what they viewed as a wild western chaos. among the laws they created and passed one year into arizona's

new status in 1864 was one stating that, quote, a person who provides, supplies, or administers to a pregnant woman or procures such woman to take any medicine, drugs, or substance or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever with intent to procure the miscarriage of such woman unless it is necessary to save her life shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two years nor more than five years. according to historian heather cox richardson, the brand-new legislature also provided no black or mulatto or indian, mongolian shall be permitted to testify in court against any white person. thus making it impossible for the tiny fraction of blacks who escaped slavery by heading west to protect their property, their families, or themselves from white arizonians who might want

to do them harm. this legislature also declared that all marriages between a white person and a black person shall be absolutely void. so in 1864, a legislature of 27 white men created a body of laws that discriminated against black people and people of color and made girls as young as 10 available for sex and marriage, and they mandated that any woman who became pregnant by any means must give birth. well, today, the arizona state supreme court has ruled that that 160-year-old law almost completely banning abortion in the state shall be enforced. let that sink in for a moment. a 19th century law from a time when interracial marriage was illegal but marrying a 10-year-old was perfectly legal now dictates life in the 21st century. women and doctors in arizona now have 14 days, just two weeks, to prepare for this violent assault

on reproductive rights and they're absolutely terrified. >> i'm devastated. i just -- i didn't they think they would do this. i really didn't. and you know, it was bad enough already with a 15-week ban because it wasn't just a 15-week ban. it was like 41 onerous restrictions on women. women have no choices now. >> with good reason. this now means that if you have anything scheduled after that date, you have no access to reproductive health care. and any doctor who does try to help you will face prison time. if you had any doubt that republicans wanted to turn back the clock, then let this day stand as a stark reminder of just what they think of women. in the 4-2 ruling the majority of justices issued this warning to physicians across the state. physicians are now on notice that all abortions except those necessary to save a woman's life are illegal, and that additional criminal and regulatory

sanctions may apply to abortions performed after 15 weeks gestation. yesterday, donald trump proudly reminded us that he ended roe. lying that everyone wanted it sent back to the states. >> i was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars, both sides, wanted and in fact demanded be ended, roe v. wade. my view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. >> well, this is exactly what happens to women when you leave it up to right-wing christian nationalists waging a full blown war on women's independence and health care in the states. arizona joins roughly 20 states that after the fall of roe now ban or seriously restrict

abortion access. women in these states are reproductive prisoners. subjugated to the will of a minority while trump says he wants to leave it up to the states, well, that too is a facade. a farce sold to the media so he can seem like he's somehow moderating his position, but behind him stand a cadre of forced birth activists who will be tasked with implementing these repressive policies across the country if he returns for a second presidency. let me introduce you to one of them, roger severino, vice president of domestic policy at the heritage foundation. he used to work for trump during his first administration, leading antiabortion efforts in health and human services. this man, according to "the new york times," has been crafting a plan in the heritage foundation's project 2025 that would circumvent and leverage the regulatory powers of federal institutions including the department of health and human services, the food and drug administration, the department of justice, and the national

institutes of health. here's what severino said when the supreme court ended abortion access. >> the federal government has an absolute role in this. there cannot be now two americas. one america where unborn life is protected and another where unborn life is treated as the equivalent of medical waste. that is untenable. this has to be settled nationally. a house divided against itself cannot stand. >> quoting lincoln. it's pretty grotesque for this man to pimp the civil rights era and even the lincoln legacy as an excuse to further restrict women's constitutional rights across the land which is what he intends to do. it's all laid out in a lengthy proposal that would require renaming hhs the department of life, ending access to mifepristone, prohibiting stem cell research, and creating a pro-life task force in the white house among many other things. so when donald trump pretends he has no negative agenda for women, know he's lying to you.

it's not what he says. but what he and the people he's going to bring with him plan to do. and he's not the only one lying to your face for political reasons. a few years ago, kari lake, who lost the arizona governor's race in 2022 and is currently running for senate, told nbc news she does not support zone zone's territorial rule, but here she is two years ago promoting the 1864 law. >> i think roe v. wade should be overturned and i think the supreme court, i have a good feeling they're going to do the right thing this time. again, i'll echo what steve just said. we have a good law on inbooks now. we'll be a state where we will not be taking the lives of our unborn anymore. >> there's a reason that trump and lake and other republicans are doing this. that is because the vast majority of americans, 70%, support abortion access in all or most cases. that is why today's decision is not just a catastrophe for women

but also a political earthquake, and just like the state of florida, arizona voters could very well have a chance to restore women's rights. just last week, a coalition of reproductive rights organizations announced they have gathered more than 506,000 petition signatures get an abortion access measure on the ballot this fall. that is if republicans allow them to get that far. under his eye. joining me now is arizona state senator eva burch who has bravely discussed her own recent abortion, and melissa murray, professor of law at nyu and msnbc legal analyst. state senator, i'm going to let you talk about the reaction of yourself, who has been through this ordeal, and the women in your state to this ruling. >> to be honest with you, i am shook. i'm just dumbfounded. i don't think that we were really expecting this. i cannot believe that we are even having this conversation, to be honest with you. and i have been watching some of

my republican colleagues and just the republican legislators here in arizona starting to backpedal. what we have to look at is the reality that this ban could have been repealed at any moment. this ban didn't -- we didn't have to have this conversation at all. arizona legislators had the authority to repeal this ban at any time. and not only did they not do it, but they filed an amicus brief bragging about how they didn't do it. so we're in a situation now where we have to be really cautious about making sure that the people of arizona and of this country understand why we're here and what needs to be done next. >> let me come to you, melissa. let me put the map back up here of the states where abortion is now banned or on the way to being banned. this person from the heritage foundation or heritage action from project 2025 essentially quoted lincoln who said america cannot survive half save and half free. it's clear the right wants the

country to be all save. >> roger severino is not unknown in this conservative legal movement. his wife is carrie severino. she was at one time the head of the judicial crisis network, that's part of leonard leo's shadowy network of organizations that has completely reshaped the federal judiciary and changed the face of judiciaries at the state level. the senator noted they weren't expecting this. they should have been expecting this because the republican government in arizona stocked that state's supreme court with republican appointees. it's an entirely republican court. of course, this was going to be the outcome. i testified against brett kavanaugh when he was nominated to the united states supreme court. i said that he would be a reliable vote to overturn roe v. wade. i was laughed at. but i was right. we cannot continue to be surprised. they are playing in our faces. we know what they're going to do. we need to act now. this map looks horrible. it's not just arizona that's reintroducing this new/old law

from 1864. there's an 1849 law that is going to be used in wisconsin unless a court steps in and stops it. michigan repealed its law. this is happening all over the country. it is go time. >> president biden tweeting trump did this, but trump did it to melissa's point, senator burch, openly. i mean, every single member that he put on the supreme court lied in their hearings, but it was a lie that was easy to catch. it was very clear that the six people who were overturned roe were going to do it, and i mean, i wonder if republican voters in your state are ever going to catch up to the fact that every single republican is going to vote to do it. you give the united states senate to republicans, they're going to do it on a national level. you have your attorney general saying they won't prosecute doctors under this decision. good luck with that, because all you have to do is get the wrong governor in there like we had in florida, where he'll fire any prosecutor that won't do it.

at this point, are people being naive in relying on somehow, something is going to stop this progression of the handmaid's tale when the truth is only not having republicans in charge of things will stop it? >> that is absolutely the was. and what an excellent and important point to make that we have to start believing these people when they tell us what they're going to do to us, because consistently, that's what's been happening. we just tried to bring a bill to the senate floor just to protect access to birth control, and they wouldn't even hear it. we had a bill on the house side that would have repealed this ban, and they wouldn't even hear it. so when they are telling us that we're not even going to talk about protecting birth control, we should believe that that's what they're coming for next. we have to under this is a ball that's going to continue rolling and there's one way out. the one way out is to stop electing these really extremist republicans who end up being the ones who are calling the shots and who are in charge.

they're not representative of the majority of arizonians including independents and republicans. that's going to continue to happen if we don't make changes in november. >> let me note that clint bowlt and catherine hackett king voted to make all abortions legal under the rules that existed when you could marry and breed up a 10-year-old and when black and brown people couldn't testify against a white person. that's the era. when people say they want to make america great again, i don't understand how people don't know that's the era they mean, the 19th century when women were cattle and black people were cattle and this law is very specifically directed, voters like yourself, state senator, white women voters tend to vote majority republican. you think they're going to do that again in november? >> i am really hoping that this is a stark wake-up call. i absolutely think having the ballot initiative on the ballot in arizona in november is going to make a difference. i do think it's call to voters. we're going to need people who

traditionally have not been engaged in the political process and stay home to care. we need them to be politically engaged. we need them to come to the ballot in november. do i think people who have been rooted in these super far right talking points are going to change their minds? absolutely not. i think it's up to the rest of us, but the rest of us are the majority. and really these individuals and these extremists who are passing these laws and pushing these agendas do not represent the majority in zone. we need people to show up. >> let's talk about the end game here, because one of the things they're doing in the state of arizona is attempting to make it harder for ballot initiatives to even be placed on the ballot in this state and other states, to make it harder to undo it. so the handmaid's tale when you watch it, what's amazing is how mundane the lead-up to it was. they simply passed laws to make it harder to stop the small minority of religious extremists from doing what they want. you have six members of the supreme court who say you don't have that right.

they also signal they're coming for birth control. they think iuds are human pesticide. i'm not sure what else they have to do for americans to understand, the end game is the handmaid's tale. >> we're surely slouching towards gilead at this point. they're being very clear. the supreme court in 2022 in dobbs said they were simply doing a democracy move. they were shifting this back to the states to let the people decide. but when the people decide, and it's just like the senator said, even individuals who express pro-life interests repel at the prospect of the state having this much control. about going back to 1864, so they want some moderation here, and this is not available in a decision like this one. authoritarians are going to authoritarian, and that's what we're getting here. so yes, they are seeing what the voters want. the voters are acting through ballot initiatives and referendum. and it's important to understand when the voters can directly register their preferences they

overwhelmingly favor reproductive rights. it's only when their votes are mediated through gerrymandered state legislatures that we get these draconian rules. that's what these republicans are afraid of. that's why they're limiting the use of voter referenda and ballot initiatives in mississippi. they said you couldn't use it for quote/unquote constitutional rights. they're changing the game, moving the football. >> two sex pests on the supreme court decides you have rights over your own body. states are passing laws to make it harder for women to get access to things like education and grants, business grants. trying to drive women back in the kitchen and saying also you can't control your own reproduction. women, wake up. when a war is being waged upon you, you're at war whether you want to be or not. and the republican party has openly declared war on women. wake up. state senator eva burch, melissa

murray, thank you. up next, trump has managed to avoid consequences for most of his actions. another guy sexually accused sex pest. but he can't seem to delay next week's criminal hush money trial. which is also an election interference trial. stay right there. voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you.

♪3, 4♪ sign♪up at shiningthroughcidp.com. ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ from chavez and huerta to striking janitors in the 90s to today's fast-food workers. californians have led the way. now, $20/hour is here. thanks to governor newsom and leaders in sacramento,

we can lift workers out of poverty. stop the race to the bottom in the fast-food industry. and build a california for all of us. thank you governor and our california lawmakers for fighting for what matters. we are now less than one week from the first ever criminal trial of a former united states president getting

under way and donald trump has been scrambling to use any maneuver to keep that from happening. he's arguing there should be a two-tiered justice system placing him above the law with extra rights no american has. for the second time in less than 24 hours a new york appeals court judge has denied trump's last-minute bid to delay that trial. they're calling for an indefinite postponement as he fights the gag order imposed by juan merchan, which followed the rejection by another appeals court judge over trump's attempts to postpone the trial for a change of venue request, claiming that he cannot possibly get a fair trial in manhattan. meanwhile, we're just over two weeks away from the supreme court oral arguments over trump's claim of absolute presidential immunity in the federal election interference case. which trump is hoping will not only provide him a get out of jail free card in that trial, but also perhaps apply to his others as well. in a 66-page filing, special

counsel jack smith argues to the court that counter to trump's claims he is not above the law. quote, the president's constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed does not entail a general right to violate them. the framers never endorsed criminal immunity for a former president and all presidents from the founding to the modern era have known that after leaving office, they faced potential criminal liability for official acts. joining me is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama law school, and msnbc legal analyst. and former congressman denver riggleman, who served as a senior adviser to the january 6th select committee. joyce, assess the strength of jack smith's filing for us. >> so jack smith's filing i think is technically very strong. he's covered all the bases. his main argument is, look, trump's not entitled to immunity. but then he tells the court if you find that perhaps there's some small area where presidents

do get immunity, it's not this case. this is a case about trying to steal an election. you don't need to go any further looking at where there might be exceptions because this case is not it. >> denver, you were on the investigative team looking at what happened on january 6th. what official acts did you find in that investigation that trump was engaged in on january 6th? >> that's what was so tough about it, great to be here, by the way. there was also one or two layers between the white house and what was going on on the ground. however, we did find direct contact on text messages between the oath keepers and donald trump's people who work for donald trump. we also found phone numbers going back and forth with the planners and also one that was very questionable that came from the white house switchboard, through the switchboard to somebody on the ground. it's interesting to me that we might be able to go further with the 35 million plus lines of data we have, but that direct line has always been difficult based on the fact he had so many

people surrounding him doing such nefarious things. i wish we had a little longer to look at the data, but at some point we have to wonder what was going on in the white house at that time and what did the phone calls consist of. >> to drill down further because i'm asking about official acts. can you think of just as a former member of congress, and as somebody who investigated what happened on january 6th, can you think of an official presidential official reason why a president or his chief of staff would be talking to the oath keepers? >> no. there is no reason to do that. no, especially the people that they were talking to. you know, when i wrote the book, the breach, we talked about we had this bizarre scene where an oath keeper was trying to contact the white house by texts the switchboard which was a land line. we found out later that individual was trying to text andrew giuliani, and she admitted to it. that's why when the american people look at this, why in the world would there be anybody who was on the ground on january 6th, whether they're oath keepers or proud boys or anybody

like that, be in direct contact with white house staff. to me, it's absolutely mind-boggling and it's something that's been underreported. >> to go back to the constitutional question. donald trump is trying to get immunity by saying that what he was doing on january 6th was part of his official role as president. how can attempting to personally remain in office beyond an election that you lost be an official act as president? >> right, so i mean, i think we all know the answer to that question. the president was acting in a personal capacity when he did this. and this is what jack smith argues in his brief. he says there's plenty of personal conduct here that would substantiate a trial purely on that contact alone. that doesn't mean the government would be barred from using evidence of official acts. in other words, they would be able to bring in all the conversations you have been talking about with the

congressman. trump's efforts to abuse the power of the presidency to further his conspiracies, that would all be fair game, even if the conspiracy itself was limited to trump's engagement with personal actors in a purely personal capacity trying to hold on to power. >> this is what jack smith writes. president's alleged scheme to overturn an election and thwart the transfer of power is the paradigm attic example of conduct that should not be immunizes even if other conduct should be. if in fact the supreme court six, the ones that are friendly to trump, somehow find that trump is immunized from any sort of legal consequence for that kind of behavior, what do you think the consequences would be? >> oh, my goodness. you're talkinguble, for me, you know, actually, i want to say, ms. vance makes an incredible point. jack smith could go a lot further than the committee

could. they can get geolocation data, phone records that we couldn't get. so the flip side to that is if the law isn't equally applied to people like that, if jack smith finds that direct linkage which is so close anyway when we were doing this on the committee, it would be absolutely i think mind-moggaling and maybe that cascading effect of people not having faith in the justice system at this point. at that point, you would see a lot of people who were angry and i would suspect protests. >> let me go really quickly, joyce, aileen cannon seems to be trying to protect herself from getting this case taken from her by the 11th circuit. she's ruled for jack smith, his request to redact the names of some two dozen government witnesses that trump wanted to reveal in public versions of one of his big filings. it seems to be a very big deal, but it also seems to be self protective on her part. >> you know, every time we find

an issue where judge cannon rules for jack smith, i feel like putting it in air quotes, because here, even though she rules for him, she does it after really criticizing him for behavior that's just not objectionable by a prosecutor. she seems to have the view that he was dilatory in filing and did it in an irresponsible fashion. the reality is that smith will still have to justify all of these redactions of the names of witnesses from public view. look, every judge has an obligation to protect the integrity of their courtroom, to protect witnesses and jurors who are engaging in public service when they participate in the criminal justice system. it's just unthinkable that a judge would not be very careful with the safety and security of those people and yet this judge almost seems to resent having to protect them simply because it's the special prosecutor that's asking for that. >> well, the better to audition for the supreme court if trump

becomes president again. i said that, not you. joyce vance and denver riggleman, thank you. up next on "the reidout," grifters gonna grift, and trump's campaign egged on by billionaires too cheap to pay their fair share of taxes is the ultimate grift. "the reidout" continues after this. this if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

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whether it be the gold sneakers, the trader card nfts or the god bless the usa bibles, by now, we know everything donald trump touches turns into a graveyard. today, we can truth social to the list as shares of the stock erased all of the gains they made since last month, proving the social media site to be more than a bump and dump scam. there's also his son-in-law jared kushner. "the new york times" is reporting today his $3 billion investment fund is financed almost infirely by overseas investment funds from countries he worked with when he was in the white house, including saudi arabia, qatar, and the united arab emirates. we don't know what these countries expect from jared, nor do we know why donors keep giving donald trump money when it's clear he's going to burn it all on his legal fees.

for the uber rich, the answer is simple, tax cuts. it beats out the embrace of authoritarianism, over stripping half of the nation's population of their rights over their own bodies. or saying that migrants are poisoning the blood of the country or, you know, the whole attempted coup thing. as long as their taxes stay low and get lower, they're good. take nelson peltz, for example, "the washington post" reports the day after january 6th, pelts calls the insurrection a disgrace and expressed remorse for voting for trump. saying, quote, i'm sorry i did that. last month, he had breakfast with trump and other billionaires and told the financial times he would probably vote for the twice impeached, four times indicted, liable for sexual abuse former president again this fall. and he's not the only one. the post goes on to say that elite donors who once balked at trump's fueling of the capitol insurrection worried about his legal problems and decried what

they saw as his chaotic presidency are rediscovering their affinity for trump, a shift that expresses many billionaires' fears of president biden's tax agenda which would drastically reduce their fortunes. this was made all the more clear over the weekend as trump held a glitzy palm beach fund-raiser where the cost of admission for the 100 or so attendees raised. and trump vowed to this tiny audience that if re-elected he would keep their taxes low, low, low. but if you're like me, you're probably wondering who is it exactly that is shelling out six figures to go to a trump fund-raiser? we'll have more on that next. when you purchase a pair of bombas socks,

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it's going to be a very spectacular evening and people are just wanting change. rich people want it, poor people want it. everybody wants change. people, they want to contribute to a cause of making america great again. and that's what's happening. >> making america great again or giving billionaires tax cuts again. that was donald trump on saturday ahead of his palm beach fund-raiser that he claims raised more than $50 million thanks to some of the nation's wealthiest donors. joining me is jonathan allen. all right, jonathan, which rich pubahs were in the room?

>> hi, joy. it was actually under a big tent, i'm told, by a trump campaign official. 117 seated guests at this event at the home of john paulson, so there's one of the big name billionaires we're talking ub. >> tell me who he is. >> he's one of these private equity hedge fund guys. made a ton of money basically if you remember the big short, the book, or the movie, he basically bet against the housing market and bet very well. he was already wealthy before that in order to do that. there are other families there, other billionaires. peppy fanoul, the big sugar industry in florida was there. woody johnson, co-owner of the new york jets who earned his money the old fashioned way by having it come down from his family, johnson & johnson, and harold hamm, the big oil barren was among the guests there. >> what do these pooh-bahs, these american oligarchs expect

to get from king trump? >> i mean, there's a huge difference in the biden policy and the trump policy. biden has promised he's going to raise taxes on the wealthiest americans and what donald trump said to these donors according to one of his campaign officials is he was going to keep their taxes low, going to try to extend the trump tax cuts. that would cost the treasury hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars over a decade, which of course would be put back on the american people in the form of debt. you know, biden has said he's going to raise taxes on these folks and obviously, they would prefer not to give him their money to raise their taxes. >> donald trump has done a new thing where people who raise $2.5 million for him for his legal defense fund get to get a personalized pair of his gold never surrender high top sneakers according to a donor access menu shares with nbc news. basically, the $300 sneakers will cost you over $2.5 million in fund-raising. how many takers are there for

those? >> don't have an exact number, but there will be some. i think somebody much smarter and more interesting said it's got to be the shoes. that's what gets you to give $2.5 million. many times things are signed. i don't know if trump is going to wear them around for a while, but the shoes are the big things that the donor access menu talks about. they also get access to trump campaign officials and various updates and retreats. >> and maybe a nicer spot in the gulag if they criticize trump and he gets angry. you do a lot of reporting on donald trump, his promises and his campaign. what is he promising the ordinary maga who is willing to go to jail for him in some cases, commit felonies for him. the people who are out there at his rallies, what do they get? because the super rich get super big tax cuts. he won't have an incentive to do another stimmy because he's

going to be in for life. there's no reason to give them another check, another stimmy check. so what do they get? >> yeah, you're pointing out a very huge conflict in his campaign's sort of theory or who it is marketing to here, obviously, raising all this money from billionaires who want their taxes cut and presenting himself as this populist. he's arguing they're going to get a better economy. their boats will be lifted by a freer economy. >> a better economy than the one now with 3.8% unemployment and people getting their student loan debt knocked out, with the stock market at a record high and us drilling more oil than anyone in human history. he didn't do it the first time. the economy was worse when he was there. what's his plan for that? >> i'm not making the case he's right. simply telling you what he's telling folks. but that's essentially what his argument is to folks. the bottom of the scale, tin in terms of the folks who charged

the capitol, he's teasing pardons for people he refers to as patriots. >> those would be the most violent criminals locked up for assaulting police officers and committing mayhem, not just the ones who took a poop in the capitol. jonathan allen, thank you very much. coming up next, an rfk jr. adviser said the quiet part out loud, admitting her number one priority is to defeat president biden, which means another trump presidency. we'll be right back. in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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another day, another said the quiet part out loud thing that robert f kennedy jr.'s independent presidential campaign is distancing it out from. you remember last week it was a fund-raising email: january 6 defendants activists and this time it's a pretty shocking admission from new york staffer rita palma about the campaign's real goal purpose been at the kennedy voter and the trump voter, the enemy, our mutual enemy is biden. whether you support bobby orr trump, we all opposed biden. 270 wins the election. if nobody gets to 270 then congress picks the president, right? right now we have a majority of republicans in congress so who are they going to pick?

who are they going to pick? if it's a republican congress they'll take trump for crisping at those edits and comments are part of a presentation to republican voters, since deleted from youtube. nbc news obtained the folder video from a source who downloaded it and palma hasn't responded to nbc's request for comments. she's a longtime anti- vaccination activist in new york state. in 2020 the new york host reported on palma as the founder of an anti-vaccine group, my kids, my choice. she said start quote covid is god's gift to the vaccine choice movement. it's woken up so many people and put us in the national spotlight, unclicked. so it naturally makes sense she's an rfp ventricle in a video she identifies herself as the campaign's new york eight rector but according to kennedy's campaign, rita palma is a ballot access consultant responsible for scheduling volunteers for our upcoming signature collection driving the empire state, adding that she is not involved in electoral strategy. naturally born in new york, this is not a campaign event. palma was speaking as a private citizen and her comments no way

reflect the strategy of the kennedy campaign. joining us now is freelance investigative journalist jacqueline swede kirk a thank you for being here. ms. palma, what is her connection to the campaign? he'll she's known robert kennedy for a long time. she was actually named vice president of his children's health defense nonprofit, which as many know, he believes that all vaccines are risky. >> and meaning not just covid vaccines. >> childhood vaccines. >> meaning nmr, measles vaccines, all of it. >> she's an activist in local and state level politics. she was advocating for loosening the restrictions on religious exemptions for vaccinations in school and in 2019 new york state did away with religious exemptions. so that's been her focus of her lobbying for years. >> so she wants kids with measles to go to school with kids who don't have measles. >> she wants children who are not vaccinated to be able to go to school and she previously wanted the schools to investigate the religious exemption.

>> and she shares that with rfk jr. let me play rfk jr. what it sounded like she was saying is that the magic of their campaign is that it would help from get in. here is what rfk jr. said last week on cnn. >> i can make the argument that president biden is a much worse threat to democracy and the reason for that is president biden is the first candidate and has been the first president in history that has used the federal agencies to censor political speech, so to censor his opponent. i can say that because i just won a case in the federal court of appeals and now before the supreme court that shows that he started censoring not just me, 37 hours after he took the oath of office he was censoring me. no president in the country has ever done that. the greatest threat to democracy is not somebody who questions election returns. >> we know that what he was angry about being censored about was his anti-vax statements, so as you look at

this campaign, does it appear to be a campaign designed not so much to make rfk jr. president but to ensure that biden is not president because rfk jr. is angry that he's not allowed to parrot anti-vax statements on the private twitter and facebook he'll >> it's interesting because the campaign has since walked back palma's role in the campaign, saying she has been aligned with kennedy for a long time, they've known each other, and she does have a role in the ballot push and there's conflicting statements but she says she was asked, can i push this, this would help trump at the very least and she said she asked him to use that and he said okay. >> that speaks for itself. these are the states in which rfk jr. is on the ballot. right now he's on in utah, that six electoral college votes for he has enough signatures for new venture, nevada, hawaii, north carolina, idaho and

nebraska, a couple of those, new venture, nevada and north carolina are pretty important states but the total for all of that will be 45 electoral college votes, so he does have the potential. it's not clear he'd win any states but he definitely is a threat and the polling shows he's equally a threat to biden and trump. inside rfk jr. world, are they working toward one of two scenarios they prefer? somehow rfk jr. becomes president or donald trump becomes president? >> it's what's in their minds. we can look at who is materially assisting the campaign at this point for hosting fundraisers or the people actually doing the on the ground work with getting out the signatures and they seem to largely come from very pro-trump factions so if you look at sort of who is doing it as a clue it tells us i think somewhat of where -- >> is this campaign being driven almost entirely by the anti-vax movement or is it just that and conspiracy theories? what is it? >> i think there's a lot of overlap between those but if you look at the top staffers

who do come from his nonprofit, a lot of the fundraising in the fundraisers and the state level support are really coming from this anti-vax movement. but the anti-vax movement is in a way a conspiracy movement. there is overlap and that goes with antigovernment kind of this election was stolen and palma and some of her other anti-vaxxer people who are working on the campaign, they are staunch believers that the election was stolen in 2020. >> so there's a little bit of both. both and, if so. thank you very much for being here. that is tonight's readout. be careful out there, voters, because not everything is as it seems. it's important that you vote but it's also important you know who and what you are voting for. and that is it tonight. all in with chris haze starts now. now. tonight on all in. >> i did everything right and they invited me. >> a last-ditch attempt to delay trial