i mean, i read that. who knows. who knows how they died. why they died. you are absolutely light. a hostage exchange, people have been held under terrible conditions for months. and israel has the right to demand their release. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening alex. >> a nightmare on top of a nightmare. i think that is the most accurate assessment of this. last summer, a tiktok account posted this video that had an explosive claim. the video claimed that the daughter of a former ukrainian defense minister had purchased this luxury villa in spain which the video claimed was worth 7 million euros. the implication was that the money that the u.s. and foreign

governments were sending to ukraine for weapons was actually just being embezzled by ukrainian leaders to buy luxury homes abroad. but the whole thing was made up. a joint investigation by the bbc and the atlantic council's digital forensic research lab found this video was part of a massive russian influence campaign. one that used social media to push the very specific lie that ukrainian officials were taking foreign cash and buying homes abroad. that lie has now been thoroughly debunked. here was that special piece of information coming out of the mouth of a sitting u.s. senator yesterday. >> we are thinking about giving ukraine more money to waste it? these people can't buy any more houses than what they bought. they have beach houses all over the world. >> that was u.s. senator and a member of the senate armed

services committee, tommy tuberville parroting russian disinformation. he is far from the only republican official saying this though. last november, a russian disinformation website disguised as a local news out fit called dc weekly pushed the explosive but entirely false claim that ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy had bought two luxury yachts. totally false and incredibly specific and debunked. but that did not stop the republicans. >> there were people who would cut social security, throw them into poverty. so they can buy a bigger yacht? >> that was jd vance of ohio, again, parroting russian disinformation. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene pushed this very specific lie on twitter. it feels like republican

elected officials have just taking russian disinformation and going with it. here was mike tuner the sunday. >> it is absolutely true. we see coming from russia attempts to mask communication that's are anti-ukraine and pro russian messages. some of which are uttered on the house floor. >> how about this from the republican leader of the house foreign affairs committee? i think russian propaganda has made its way into the united states and affected a good chunk of my base. republicans used to be the hawks in congress. they used to be reliably anti- russian. now they are pushing a very specific, very pro russian version of american isolationism. it has become a litmus test to

see if you are maga enough to make it into today's republican party. >> roger wicker will spare no tax dollars in ukraine. he handed $40 billion to ukraine. america is being invaded. yet liberal matt dolan thinks border security should take a backseat to biden's agenda in ukraine. ukraine treats america like they are atm. their man in alabama, jerry carl. chuck good rich will put america first. >> those were ads for republican primary races. those weren't even ads for the general election. those were ads where republicans were trying to outflank each other and show how much more conservative they were than their opponents by declaring how willing they are to stop funding ukraine and let russia win. what happened here? how did the republican party do

a 180 on russia? like everything else in the republican party right now, the answer is trump. donald trump has not been shy about how he feels about the war in ukraine. in the first days of the war, he called what putin was doing in ukraine genius and savvy. he has since claimed if he were in charge, he would end the war in one day by telling ukraine they have to make a deal with russia. for whatever reason, and there are plenty of reasons one could speculate about, trump's thinking appears very in line of that with russian president vladimir putin. at this point, much of the republican party has fallen in line with donald trump. we are seeing all of this on display in a most spectacular fashion. the body of the u.s. government with the power of the purse. the body of the u.s. government that is the most vital in terms

of sending military aid to ukraine. with the majority so thin he could only afford to lose one republican vote, republican speaker of the house mike johnson is very much in the hot seat here. and far right republican marjorie taylor greene is donald trump's foot soldier. trying to use that threat for a motion to vacate at any time to push johnson into not sending any more money to ukraine. today speaker johnson and marjorie taylor greene met behind closed doors more than an hour to discuss congresswoman greene's threat. at around the same time this afternoon, in the middle of this power struggle, sources leaked to the press that speaker johnson, well, traveled to mar-a-lago this friday to hold a press conference with donald trump and presumably kiss his metaphorical ring. johnson and trump will be addressing trump's other favorite conspiracy theory, the idea that u.s. elections are

rigged. what comes out of this meeting is really anyone's guess. on one hand, johnson has the fight to save ukraine. and on the other, he has trump and putin. as punch bowl news put it today, it is clear now the louisiana republican has a very stark choice in front of him. pass a ukraine aid bill or remain speaker. >> how he handles funding ukraine is going to tell our entire conference how to handle a motion to vacate. >> joining me now is julia yafi. foreign relations, domestic politics. it is great to see you. i am so eager to hear your assessment of how and why this is happening. i mean, the russian propaganda piece of it which was so blatant and so obvious, is it all just a desire to curry favor with trump or do you think the roots ovist extend

deeper than that? >> there's a couple of things here. you mentioned all the examples of republicans parroting russian propaganda points. there was a report from an incredible investigative reporter in the washington post who found kremlin documents that show exactly how the kremlin and the spin doctors its hires, how it pushes exactly the kind of messages that you showed in the primary ads about how it is either the border or ukraine. how ukraine is corrupt and we shouldn't spend any more money on it. it is either money for ukraine or money for roads in your district. which of course, let's be honester, republicans are not going to vote for all the things you want in your district because they don't think the government should be providing them. the one thing democrats and republicans can usually agree on is defense spending.

one of the people that the kremlin spin doctors single out was representative matt gaetz. that he was an excellent messenger. how long do you have? first of all, the american conservative evangelical movement, especially the world congress of families has been working for a long time with right wing nationalists to do things like infringe on gay rights. to limit abortion access. and, trump was told he was briefed on the eve of his inauguration that putin tried to help him win the election. zelenskyy, aid to ukraine became the stuff of the first impeachment against trump. there are all kinds of reasons

he does not like ukraine and he likes russia. and the other piece is just pure ideological affinity. the american right wing looks at russia, looks at vladimir putin and they see a white christian nationalist who is banning gay people and the gay movement in russia. who is curbing women's access to abortion. who is pursuing an expansionist imperialist military policy. who claims that he is fighting against gender neutral bathrooms in ukraine. i'm not making this up. right? so, it is like what tucker carlson said on the eve of the full scale invasion in 2022. he said why are we fighting russia? we should be allies with russia. they believe the same things that we do. like some of it is just as simple as that. >> and i understand the ideological affinity. cubbinger carlson has been very articulate on that for lack of a better term. but, the sort of general principle of supporting democracy around the world, you

know, the hawkish sort of position that is dominated much of the last 50 years of republican foreign policy has been thrown out and in its place, you have republicans effectively acting as useful idiots on the subject of ukraine. what surprises me to system degree, julia, is that there is not enough self-respect apparently. among some of these republicans to understand that they are being used as tools of a propaganda machine. there is legitimate affinity between what putin is doing and what americans like to do in the u.s. it seems they don't fully realize or don't care they are being used as tools for the kremlin. >> i wonder if they don't care. just another wedge issue. if it is just another way to deny president biden a win, then great.

they are using russian propaganda, too. it is a two way street. they are allies in this. i don't know that they care very much. as for the hawkish, you know, spreading of democracy fighting for democracy, i asked chairman mccall. i'm a reagan republican. don't you believe in democracy? does that resonate with people in your district? he said i don't really know. what we have also seen is just an affinity for authoritarianism. in parts where the republican party dominates there has historically been an affinity for authoritarianism. be it in the 19th, 20th, the 1930s , the america first movement. in part didn't want to get involved in a world war in europe because it was bloody

and expensive but also, they didn't really see a problem with fascism. so i think they don't love democracy as much as you would like them to. >> and the figure head at the top of their party is no big fan of democracy either. julia, thank you very much for your time and expertise on this. really appreciate it. >> thank you alex. so with his job under threat, republican speaker mike johnson will travel to mar-a- lago on friday to meet with donald trump as we just discussed. there they will discuss election integrity. when asked what that meant, johnson said free and fair elections. he spearheaded a legal effort by more than 100 house republicans to support a texas lawsuit before the supreme court that would challenge the results in four key swing states. none of which was the state of

texas. this right wing obsession with imagined election fraud has taken a real toll on actual american elections. nbc's jane tim reports that election worker turnover has reached historic highs ahead of the 2024 election with many citing threats and increased public scrutiny as reasons for their departures. joining me now is jane tim, thanks for being here. it is essential the narrative of election fraud. and the narrative elections need to have more integrity. the real world effects that need to be examined. we are talking what election

denialism might do to election workers for years. because these people are getting death threats. they are getting doxxed in some extreme circumstances. we are seeing people driven from their homes in terms of election conspiracy theories. what we know is in large jurisdictions where 80% of american voters live, jurisdictions with 100,000 voting age residents, turnover is growing quickly after 2020. between 2018 and 2022, 46% of large jurisdictions had new election officials at the top. and these jobs are hard. they are institutional knowledge based. and having people that know how to do these very difficult and complex jobs. it is tough. it makes it hard and i ask people what it is like to run through these jobs and they say drinking from a fire hose. baptism by fire. these are incredibly difficult jobs. people don't want to do them anymore. they are not that well paid

either. >> it sounds like in many ways because they want to be part of the democratic process. do the right thing. civic duty. here we are driving effectively, driving them from the jobs by making them more ownous and dangerous and more complex. it is not just they have to withstand the existing narratives of the election fraud increased scrutiny they are changing the way elections are run. especially in republican states where the fantasy of election fraud has proven to have the deepest hold. in north carolina, voters will need to show id for the first time to vote. mail ballots must include a copy of id and a signature of a notary or two witnesses. and also in north carolina, mail ballots have to be received by election day. not three days after. when you talk about the women and men who have the jobs of running these elections, it would seem like you have to be not only willing to put up with

the change in rules, and the excess of scrutiny. but potentially, a lot of litigation and a practical battle. you have to be prepared for the long haul to run an election in america. >> absolutely. and many of the republican controlled legislators have added penalties for election workers who make mistakes. it makes it more and more. the criminalization happening in our election process. so that people are afraid to do the wrong thing. and it makes it hashedder to makes harder to do these already hard jobs. in an era where miscommunication is construed as a sign of fraud. mistakes are even worse and i have seen firsthand what happens when you have big turnover. you know, i watch this county in virginia last year. where election denialism had driven everyone to quit. to the point they couldn't even register voters for a couple of

weeks. in 2022, they had brand new staff and they struggled to get their election results out. they didn't report their results. the only county in virginia who couldn't tell you who won. because for new people, these are hard jobs and it is getting harder. >> this is what happens when you push a narrative like this. thanks for your reporting and thanks for being here tonight. >> thank you. we have a lot more ahead including maga world's new plan to elevate rfk jr. 's candidacy in order to defeat joe biden. we will discuss that with someone who knows all about election day spoilers. but first, trump's ex-financial chief was sent to jail again today. we will get to that and his upcoming criminal kyle, that's next. upcoming criminal kyle, that's next.

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in precisely five days, the first criminal trial of a american former president is set to begin in new york city and a parade of witnesses is expected to take the stand. according to nbc news, several members of trump's inner circle are expected to testify at his upcoming criminal trial. that includes rona graph, his executive assistant. madeline westerhout, of the oval office operations. and hope hicks who was once considered one of his closest confidants it it is an open question if they will give up the goods on their former boss, but alvin bragg sent a strong messages to any witnesses who may or may not consider lying for trump on the witness stand. the former chief financial officer of the trump organization was sentenced to five months in jail after bragg's office prosecuted him

for lying during his testimony in trump's civil fraud case. he is 76 years old and this is his second stint at rikers island jail. he served three months behind bars just last year for tax fraud. joins me now is jeremy saland. a new york criminal defense attorney. it is great to see you. >> great to see you. >> so am i, i mean, sure seems like a message to throw him in jail again at 76. it was already seen as kind of a tough move to throw him in jail the first time. a second bid right before the criminal trial begins. to you read it that way? >> i see it not as a chilling effect that will adversely impact these witnesses to say we shouldn't testify. but it will be more in terms of reality check that if you make believe and if you tell that story that isn't true and you misrepresent, we as prosecutors will do our homework and hold you accountable and if we can without putt an olderman in

custody, you could go too. >> come clean or else. >> or stay home. >> or don't come. don't come at all. i mean, when we talk about some of the witnesses that i just listed off, i mean, what is your expectation about how forthcoming they will be? some of these folks have testified in separate cases to separate law enforcement bodies or grand juries. how much of a lift do you think is it going to be to get them to speak the whole truth about what trump did? >> certainly they will see the writing of the wall if they are consistent. because that inconsistency again could raise the same issue that weisselberg earned up having to deal with. they will be put on the stand and cross examined. they will be realtively forthright. are they going to not recall certain things or maybe sway a little bit? that certainly can happen. but if there is a testimony and a history, they will stay with that. otherwise, that exposure can be huge. and they don't want to become the story line. this is donald trump's story line. not theirs. >> it is also kind of michael

cohen's story line. >> very true. >> one of the interesting sort of things in the rikers island sentence is that prosecutors agree they would not call weisselberg to the witness stand during the upcoming trump criminal trial. that is interesting to me because the only person who can really directly refute michael cohen's testimony in the most high stakes dealings here is alan weisselberg. if there is a defense witness that could undermine michael cohen's testimony, it is probably alan weisselberb. >> but michael cohen undermines michael cohen, because he is rich with all sorts of material that you can challenge him with. the things that he says. his intent, his motive. his change of story. his own convictions. so there is ample evidence there to challenge him.

if you recall, it's not how the law works. so i think there will still be ample opportunities but also the prosecution is not putting this solely on his shoulders. it is not just the michael cohen sort of opportunity. it is beyond him. >> you can see this is not just going to be michael cohen. it does seem just reading the tea leaves that donald trump does not want this trial to start. right? i think every single day this week, and it is only wednesday, he has filed a request to stay the trial for some different reason each day. and he has been rejected each and every time. how unusual is that? >> to have art physical 78 in this way is unusual. it is challenging. give it to a judge and say this is arbitrary. it is not based in the law.

based on the fact. it is a mistake. that is what he is trying to say and he is going to fail and fail. and in fact, he has failed. the judge will say this has to go forward. and i think not to minimize or belittle the former president. but, despite his facade and boisterous behavior, he is a frightened little boy. he is really terrified about what could happen to him. any felony is not what is happening in washington dc or florida but it is a felony and it is real. and this is a day of reckoning he is trying to avoid. >> talk about a chilling message. a bid at rikers at the age of 76. perhaps it will be two more requests in the coming days, we will have to talk about watching your clock. thanks for your time tonight. great to see you. still ahead tonight, watch out joe biden. there is a new liberal in town.

he is an anti-vaxer, against gun control and promoted a national abortion ban. wait, trump world conservatives want to convince liberals in swing states that robert f. kennedy jr. is their left wing champion. but will it work? that's next. champi. on but will it work? that's next. schedule with safelite, and we'll come to you to fix it. >> tech vo: this customer was enjoying her morning walk. we texted her when we were on our way. and she could track us and see exactly when we'd arrive. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: we came to her with service that fit her schedule. >> woman: you must be pascal. >> tech: nice to meet you. >> tech vo: we got right to work, with a replacement she could trust. we come to you for free! schedule now for free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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if you are unfamiliar, fox host sean hannity dedicated a significant portion of his show to attacking joe biden. but now another candidate has captured his attention. robert f. kennedy jr. >> if you are a left wing voter, candidate frankly gives you all the nutty biden bernie sanders green new deal climate alarmist, religious cult policies, maybe without the corruption and sleaze and the chaos and he definitely knows what day of the week it is. >> if you are a left winger you'll love rfk jr. today, we learned that particular argument may be part of a broader trump world strategy to elevate rfk jr. among liberal voters by raising his profile on the issues they care about the most. allies of donald j. trump plan to promote him as a champion for choice to give voters for

whom abortion is a top issue and who also don't like mr. biden another option on the ballot. trump allies also plan to amplify the progressive environmental records of mr. kennedy. now for the record, rfk jr. has done nothing to suggest he would be an ideal candidate for people concerned about climate change and abortion. in fact, rfk jr. is so far the only candidate in this race who has openly endorsed a national abortion ban. here is what he told my colleague on that subject late last year. >> i believe that a decision for the child should be up to the women during the first three months of life. >> so you would sign a federal cap on three months? >> yes i would. >> rfk jr. 's campaign tried to walk those comments back later claiming he misunderstood the question. but the video speaks for itself. he has raised more questions about his commitment to reproductive freedom after he chose a running mate whose

official abortion position is a word salad more than it is a coherent statement. here it is. there are a number of extenuating circumstances that would lead me to consider terminating a pregnancy. those include my health, the health of the baby and considerations of what happens to that baby if that baby is being born into a situation that cannot sustain a good and healthy life. in the consideration of economic consideration, i support bringing babies into the world through community support of both mother and baby. huh? rfk jr. is not exactly a leading candidate when it comes to climate change either. one of the environmental non- profits that kennedy used to work for has endorsed joe biden citing biden's historic investments to fight climate change through the inflation reduction act. a bill rfk jr. says he would not have signed as president. over the course of this

campaign, kennedy has really aligned himself with the right. >> i'm not going to take people's guns away. anybody who tells you they will reduce gun violence through gun control at this point, i don't think is being realistic. you talk about solutions for the palestinian people, the palestinian people are arguably the most pampered people by international aid organizations. >> he destroyed our schools, our churches, our businesses, our economy. >> that is the platform that rfk jr. is running on but the facts may be beside the point. trump's allies are willing to do what they must to get him to jump ship for kennedy. >> kennedy voter and the trump

voter, our mutual enemy the biden. 270 wins the election. if you don't get to 270, if nobody gets to 270, then congress picks the president. right now, we have a majority of republicans in congress. so who are they going to pick? who will they pick? trump. >> it doesn't mean the alliance between kennedy and trump world is weakening. the trump team's view is simple and backed by public and private polling. the more candidates in the race, the better for mr. trump. the question is now, how do democrats deal with this? i will ask the only person in modern history who has had the distinction of running the democratic national committee and appearing on a democratic presidential ticket, next. dem presidential ticket, next.

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cofounder of black lives matter los angeles. now, while west has only earned one to three percent of voters in national polling he is drawing a contrast between his campaign and president biden's. to appeal to black or muslim american voters who might be satisfied requested the biden administration. that makes him the kind of third party candidate donald trump's allies plan to amplify. trump allies and superpacs plan to elevate outsider candidates like robert f. kennedy jr. , cornell west, and jill stein by positioning them to biden's left even if that is not exactly true. joining me now is senator tim kane, democrat from the great state of virginia. former chair of the national committee and hillary clinton's former running mate in 2016. and also, the author of a new book out this week called walk, ride, paddle. a life outside. what is that? what is the outside?

senator kaine, thank you for being here tonight. i'm very eager to know what you, you know what an election with spoilers is like. 2016 saw gary johnson and jill stein in the race. some people think they took away from hillary clinton and her very, you know, well documented margin of victory in the popular vote. but not in the electoral college. what lessons did you learn from that and should democrats take away from that as far as third party spoilers? >> i'm glad you asked me that. winning the popular vote big. winning the virginia vote. but still falling short. that means in 2024, we democrats have to be focused not just on winning but winning big and i think we will. but we have to deal with these

spoilers, they are in this race, especially rfk, to make donald trump win. >> do you think when you talk about making a plan, if you look at the polling in a five way race, trump beats biden, rfk gets 13% of the vote. in a head to head matchup, biden beats trump. so if you are believing these polls again, they are early and they are national polls but you know, rfk jr. plays a real role in handing this race to trump. what exactly should democrats do? is it talking about his record or exposing the allegiance the kennedy campaign has to the trump campaign? >> his campaign wants trump to win. but look at rfk's positions. god god, he has been sympathetic to the january 6th

rioters trying to overturn a peaceful election and disrupt american democracy. he is anti-science. he is for national abortion ban. he has picked a running mate who is just cruelly against the 12 million people on the planet who have grown their families by in vitro fertilization. this guy is a donald trump boot licker and he will do everything he can to push it to donald trump. and i think when people really figure out the stakes, they will realize that what a desperation signal it is for donald trump to say wow. i don't think i can win votes myself. so, can i prop up these puppets and try to get people to vote for them? i think virginia voters, i'm on the ballot in 24 and i'm worried about virginia but i think virginia voters and american voters will figure that out. >> part of this is also biden

addressing where he may be most vulnerable. where voters would be most likely to want a third party candidate. i know you have been really vocal on the subject of gaza. there is some reporting that trump allies are discussing running ads in deerborn, michigan and other parts of the state with large muslim populations. thanking biden for standing with israel. so the plan there, the goal there would be to diminish muslim american turnout for biden. how vulnerable do you think the president is on gaza and how much of that is an issue that can be tackled directly by biden? >> gaza is heartbreaking. the hamas attack on israel was despicable and unforgivable. the hamas effort to go after civilians and take hostages but also, they timed the attack to disrupt a discussion between

the u.s. israel and saudi arabia that included a future for palestine that had been kind of under the radar and not discussed for years. so you know, hamas attack was despicable but the aftermath has also been heartbreaking with gazan civilian deaths in significant numbers, and insufficient humanitarian aid to gaza. but, everyone knows that donald trump would be worse. if you are not happy with what is going on in gaza, donald trump would be infinitely worse than joe biden. and, take donald trump and his rhetoric and record back to the united states. donald trump's first action as president was a muslim ban. so anybody who thinks donald trump will be better overseas, get over it. and anybody who thinks donald

trump will be like okay, his first action here at home was a muslim ban. that is what it will be with donald trump. people he doesn't like, whether it is muslim, lgbtq, people who want reproductive freedom. he is going to go after them with a vengeance. so, folks better wake up and not only worry about what's happening thousands of miles away. they should think about what is going to happen right here at home if joe biden is president or donald trump is president. o if joe biden is president or donald trump is president. >> we'll talk from senator kit tim kaine, the democrat from virginia and author of the new book walk, ride, paddle, a life outside, filled with pearls of wisdom. thank you, sir, so much for your time tonight. >> great to be with you, thanks. coming up, the growing humanitarian crisis in gaza, by israel's claim that more aid is entering the strip is now very much under dispute, that is

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now, i work at comcast as part of the team that created our ai highlights technology, which uses ai to detect the major plays in a sports game. giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. last week, president biden issued an ultimatum to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, demanding that israel dramatically increase the amount of humanitarian aid flowing into the gaza strip here clyde was clear that israel did not act upon this, there would be consequences, including the conditioning of

u.s. aid to israel. shortly after, israel announced it would open two new aid crossings and expand assistance overall, but today, a week later, there are a few signs of that. according work done in gaza via those border crossings, is that the amount of aid trucks has spiked over the past three days. the u.n., however, disputes that, arguing there has been no increase in the daily average of trucks going into gaza. a u.n. official told the truck times, trucks carrying food and other supplies often enter gaza half-full, after israeli inspectors prohibit some of the contents. the time that aid is unloaded, the tally of full trucks is much lower. happening as man-made famine looms. palestinians of all people on planet earth currently facing famine or severe hunger. the aid group said people in

northern me on. >> what's your is it assessment about the eight increase? >> there's so much about this conflict that is complicated, who is going to, some things are simple. there's a trickle of aid and it needs to be a deluge of aid whether it's 400 trucks that are half-full or 200 not enough, and that's how you end up in a situation where 1 million people are at catastrophic levels of hunger, and another million people at emergency levels of hunger. this is a man-made catastrophe, as you described it, and it's one, at least in this aspect,

>> are the israeli inspections of the trucks that are going in particularly onerous? is it unusual that a truck would be losing half of its contents? >> so, there is special undoubtedly getting in the way of the trucks going in, and if a truck is alleged to be dual use, surgery could be used for other means. but it's also the number of crossings as you say, the erez crossing that was promised for opening friday hasn't yet been opened. what we've looked at where we find ourselves, the words that he's been promised have to be turned into action at 10 times the level that you've seen so far. >> you get that the white house is incensed by this? >> they need to sea change and they've made that clear. we've been warning for a long time about the public health emergency that was brewing,

never mind the loss of the 200 aid workers who've been killed as well. we suffered, ourselves, my organization suffered an israeli missile strike on our guest house in the middle of january. we were warned vend of the so- called system was not working and the people have paid for that failure to heed that warning with their lives. >> immediately of the world central kitchen workers who were targeted and killed. the way you distribute aid, has that changed your operations on the ground at all? >> we've sustained partners across the gaza strip but our security measures and our safety measures have to be of the highest order. we obviously are very very careful about having anyone move,

and days. that the war goes on. fulfill the a requirement. >> can we talk about that need? we say the word famine, and it's uttered frequently, invoked frequently, but what does that practically mean for a population? >> it means that you're going to starve, and people start and they either die from lack of food or they're so vulnerable that they die because of the associated illnesses. the group that assesses famine technical roots, this is an someone in new york writing a press release, it's people on the ground assessing the situation, and when people have died of starvation, that's a very unusual thing to say. we don't use the word famine, it's very restricted, it's very unusual to declare that. it's called level 5, that's what we describe. level 5 of food insecurity

which is a diplomatic way of saying it's a catastrophe. level 4 and level 3, level 4 is the emergency level, three is crisis, and frankly, if only every gazan had that can of beans you're referring to, but of course, many of them don't. >> 245 calories. this must be unlike anything. >> it's the density and the speed of the descent into absolute that is fast. let's not forget, this 25 million people in sudan suffering from a civil war, there are people in syria, elsewhere, who desperately need him about in terms of density of population, speed is in a league of its own. >> some truly essential and lifesaving heroic work, thank you so much for your time, and all that you do on behalf of the global community. that is our show for this hour. lawrence o'donnell, good evening. >> good evening, alex, we have experts with