will see.>> great to have you here. that is all in on this thursday night. good evening alex. it is amazing that we are reevaluating what that case was about in hindsight. the big contours as you laid out so articulately in your intro. and what we are barreling towards. >> although i will say i forgot i knew it was -- the fact it was televised was so crucial. to that. dominance. >> 150 i remember distinctly that i was sitting in lucas living room is that bronco was running we were watching it all on national television. >> thank you my friend. earlier today a source with direct knowledge of the situation gave nbc news the

biggest peek into what we should expect from trump's new york hush many trial next week. a potential witness list. let me back up four days before election night in 2016 the wall street journal published this explosive story. national enquirer should donald trump from playboy models of fear allegation. it was what is known in the tabloid world is a catch and kill scheme. trump had an affair with a playboy model named karen mcdougal. when trump ran for president mcdougal try to sell the story to the press. the national enquirer bought the story from mcdougal and then they killed it. this is no longer just the stuff of allegation. in 2018 the national enquirer's parent company entered into a nonprosecution agreement with prosecutors in new york. the tabloid admitted the whole scheme in exchange for immunity from prosecution. around the time that was happening the wall street journal had another scoop.

david the ceo of the national enquirer also had an immunity deal with prosecutors. he was also spilling the beans. so knowing all of that background when nbc got this potential witness list today for trump's hush money trial these names jumped out at me. karen mcdougal and david . they are on the list as well as the man who was the editor in chief of the national enquirer at the time of that catch and kill scheme . dillon howard. now the hush money at the center of monday's trial is not the hush money the national enquirer paid karen mcdougal to kill her story. the hush money at the center of monday's trial is the money paid to stephanie clifford. you probably know better but the stage name stormy daniels. but the contours of these cases are very very similar. daniels like mcdougal was ready to go public with her story. and was paid to stay silent. what's more both of these payments the money for karen

mcdougal and stormy daniels those payments were made in the lead up to the 2016 election. and that could be key here. because one of the things one of the essential things that district attorney alvin bragg will have to prove in the case is why donald trump did what he did. why he arrange those payments to stormy daniels. having karen mcdougal and david in dillon howard on the witness stand explaining the karen mcdougal hush money case. explaining what the national enquirer was catching and killing stories that could be bad for donald trump in the lead up to the residential election. that could really help illustrate trump's intent in a very similar case. the stormy daniels case. to that end also on the potential witness list is keith davidson. davidson was the attorney for both karen mcdougal as she negotiated her payment from the national enquirer. and he was the attorney for stormy daniels.

she negotiated her payment to stay quiet. i am sure mr. davison has plenty to say about what he believes motivated the silencing of his two clients stories. if you recall the reason the a bragg has to prove the y here is because the way he structured the charges against trump here is not just one singular crime. bragg is charged trump with a misdemeanor. the falsifying of business records. but bragg has elevated that charge to a felony by alleging that ciampa falsified those business records and service of committing another larger crime. now da bragg has not yet revealed what the second larger crime is. but it is likely something like tax fraud or the state or federal election crime. stormy daniels story was not just guilt on some random date. it wasn't killed while donald trump was a businessman or hosting the apprentice. stormy daniels story was killed the month before the 2016

general election. and days after the access hollywood tape was made public. the tape which trump said he liked to grab women by the you know what. a story about trump allegedly having an affair with an adult film star just months after his own wife had given birth to their son painted to make the story go away just before the election. certainly feels a lot like a campaign expense. or at least an in-kind donation. so that is why trump's knowledge and intent is so important here. and why having witnesses like karen mcdougal and david in dillon howard and keith davidson could be so essential. these are not the only names on this potential witness list. there are also central figures names you would recognize like michael cohen and of course stormy daniels herself. now at this point i'm sure most of america has seen the checks donald trump signed paying

michael cohen. michael cohen and stormy daniels both have been public about how michael cohen page stormy done daniels for her silence. one that is in dispute. what trump has disputed since the story became public in 2018 was whether trump knew about it. whether ciampa knew at the time that his payments to michael cohen were in fact a reimbursement to michael cohen for fronting the hush money to stormy daniels.>> what trump knew about that reimbursement system and when he knew it will also be central to the case.

which is what makes these less recognizable names also very interesting. jeffrey mccarney and madeline -- mccarney was the former controller for the trump organization. he would've had access and may be even needed to approve the payments to michael cohen. which we are all classified as payments for legal services. wester house was trump's oval office secretary cohen was being reimbursed by trump. because trump was doing all of this reimbursing while he was in the white house as the president she would've had a front row seat. and that is not even the whole potential witness list. joining me now to discuss our nbc msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and -- former federal prosecutor in and political magazine. thank you for being here. lisa i was very interested in this potential witness list. i'm sure you were even more interested in more informed. given your following of the

case in your deeply expertise. who among those names stuck out to you as being sort of essential to the prosecution's case? >> people are going to be talking with this trial gets underway about madeline --. that is because when donald trump engaged his repayment michael cohen there are multiple checks. he did not repay him in one lump sum. we paid him over a series of months. six of the checks at least that was sent to michael cohen were signed by donald j trump and his distinctive scroll. and at a time when he was president of them by the states. you have to ask where was donald trump when he signed those checks? does he have a checkbook on the resolute desk? the weight they are formulated you can see they are computerized generated from some business. somebody had to have presented him with those checks to sign. that is where it madeline -- comes in. she was also as bob woodward says trump's gatekeeper. she was the keeper if you want to communicate with trump you

had to go through her. so expect the prosecutor potentially to show her other evidence of the scheme. to conceal the payments through these manufactured legal invoices. because if someone wanted to send trump an email we know he does not email. we know he does not text. if they wanted to call him who would have placed the call? the oval office secretary. >> so fascinating. you have made a point in politico and i think it is well taken especially for those of us on the outside of the legal profession that michael cohen is more of a problematic witness than i think perhaps the layman understands. can you elaborate on what you think his weaknesses are and whether any of them are short of by the witness list we have seen today? >> is not unusual for a cooperatives and prominent criminal cases to have sordid past. their own criminal history. maybe they like the prosecutors but they have seen the light. they stop lying once they start working with the government and

ideally are on the right path on the straight and narrow. michael cohen his light to every branch of the federal government the last few years. he lied to justice department prosecutors when he was trying to ask them to give him a break after he pled guilty in the southern district of new york. he lied to congress and admitted to lying to congress. he lied to at least one judge. probably the judge who took his guilty plea on the tax charges in 2018. because he has since claimed that he pled guilty under duress and he did not commit those crimes. so that is a lot of lying for someone who is going to be a key witness. michael cohen has a couple other elements of unusual baggage. he has a career now. a media career he has constructed off the back of his connection to donald trump. and his vendetta against donald trump both of those things will be issues for his credibility that i'm sure trump's lawyers will bring out. the other witnesses on this list could be quite significant.

i'm sure the das office will be looking to them to try to shore up cohen's testimony or plug in gaps. the most obvious for instance with the assistant that lisa was talking about is she may have been around conversations in which she could have overheard trump talking about his knowledge of this game. his motive. i don't want to speculate too far. that is what we are seeing with this witness list. the das office putting some people on this sort of board who might be able to fill in pieces of evidence that other people might not be able to do so well. >> plugging the holes. >> when he was talking about the assistant it reminded me that in the statement of facts -- there is a single paragraph that jumps out at me every time i read it. in 2017 michael cohen and trump allegedly met in the oval office to submit this repayment scheme. i've been thinking to myself for months who is going to corroborate that? if michael cohen is a problematic witness as -- who

is going to be that person? we now know we have one possibility. madeline -- nobody else on that witness list who would have been in the white house at that time. >> i wonder as much as it seems quite evident the da bragg has spent quite a bit of time trying to shore up potential weaknesses. you point out in your piece today that trump's lawyers could pursue a sort of is it novel a different strategy for trying to effectively lower the sentence here by convincing -- by going only for a misdemeanor charge. effectively admitting guilt to just a misdemeanor to take the felony off the table. can you explain that more? >> it is in on orthodox theory to most people were hearing it. essentially any time that there is a charge defense that is a

high-level felony offense that has a lesser included offense in it. in this case the misdemeanor is falsifying business records. as you said at the top it has been as slated to a felony. through the allegation that the falsification of the records was dying to conceal another crime. what defendants in these odd situations can do if they are concerned that the jury may be reluctant to quit the defendant they may have some concerns about the strength of the case. they can ask the judge in new york before the case goes to the jury to instruct the jurors that they can convict the defendant on the lesser in this case misdemeanor offenses rather than top offenses. the benefit of doing that for a criminal defendant is to avoid a situation where the jurors are just stuck with the most the strongest option. in our forest effectively convict on the felony i'm just putting that". and instead give them a compromise option which would be misdemeanors in this instance. >> lisa, what do you think of

the likelihood of that? and i guess secondarily how much pressure i think it has been frustrating and confusing to people that bragg has not outlined what the step up charge would be.>> to be clear is outlined three. three possibilities. he has not settled on any of them. it is not clear to me at trial he will settle on any of them. but rather present the jury with options. meaning you can believe donald trump had the intent to commit or conceal. any of these three crimes. choose your own adventure jury. that is enough to convict him. >> i guess i wonder as a matter of strategy is that a sound one . we are talking about the former president. it has gone from a misdemeanor to a felony. it could be one of these three things. is that a better strategy or a more novel strategy a riskier strategy of settling and saying this is why it is a felony? >> it is both a novel strategy

and a risky strategy that at the same time allows for some disagreement within the jury where you otherwise have to have unanimity. it doesn't have to necessarily be a meeting of the minds among these 12 jurors. as to what crime donald trump was attempting to conceal or commit. it is enough they believe that he engaged in the falsifying of business records. with the intent to commit or conceal a crime. so the fact they have identified three that it could be that might be all the better for them as opposed to just pinpointing one. >> do you think you have reporting the child's legal team is actively considering this. >> yes. they have been actively considering it. they have through the close of the case to consider it. the advantages are quite obvious. it is a lesser charge. it will be easier for him to sort of spin is a victor at least not a loss. it could reshape some of the political dynamics around at least this case. but it would require hits to do something he is not good at doing. which is to be humble. and to prepare to sort of take

one on the chin. this is someone who guards his ego closely. he does not like to admit defeat. that i think would be the principal challenge. in the ordinary circumstances this would be the smart thing for a criminal defendant to do. which is why it is no surprise frankly the trump's lawyers have been considering it. >> i will make a prediction even if he goes that route he is not going to take it on the chin or admit defeat. he will say he has been absolved. he will just -- he will do what he usually does which is lie. that is my prediction. if he goes that route. thank you both for your wisdom and expertise. coming up the right wings stunning incoherence as it begins to fully grasp the repercussions of its attack on abortion rights. congresswoman joins me on that later this hour. but first with trump's takeover of the rnc complete and his daughter-in-law in charge the organization is wasting no time

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is it going to be the position of the rnc in 2020 fourth at the 2020 election was not barely decided it was stolen somehow? >> i think that is in the past.

>> donald trump's daughter-in- law and cochair of the republican national committee. insisting that as far as she is concerned the big lie about 2020 election fraud is in the past. >> which makes it strange then that the rnc was send out nearly 150,000 robocalls on larry trump's behalf falsely claiming there was massive election fraud in the 2020 election. here's the audio of that robocall obtained by cnn. >> hello i'm stephanie calling for the republican national committee cochair. i'm sure you agree that we cannot allow the chaos and questions of the 2020 election to ever happen again. if democrats have their way your vote could be canceled out by someone who isn't even an american citizen. >> that doesn't sound like an organization trying to leave 20/20 in the past. that sounds like trump's election lies being institutionally legitimized by the republican party. speaking of which tomorrow speaker of the house mike

johnson will hit tomorrow michael for a joint press conference with trump. all about election integrity. joining me now is tim miller writer for the bulwark and a former spokesman for the republican national committee. we put that last line of your cv in there because i wonder as a former rnc official, what it sort of makes you feel when you hear these robocalls that basically suggests the institutional stamp of approval on 2020 and 2024 big lies. >> a couple things. i will get to my feelings in a second. in addition to the 2020 lies they are offering a patent lie about 2024. in a way to try to raise money and try to trick people. arose about this in my book -- this was exactly relevant to it. i was in charge of approving

the robocalls. the mail and email that would go out. on behalf of the communications department. even back then i remember looking back with regret. these sorts of mailers they are always there is always hyperbole. there is always some adjuster ration. the language is more aggressive. you're trying to get people to give money. there were times where i would try to edit it and tone it down and the powers that be would say unless you think cnn is going to get this and embarrass us we just want to go with it. it will help us raise money. i have a big flashback to that seeing a news outlet get this and called them on their lies. which is something they deserve. i think the types of stuff we were doing back in the obama era -- it was like standard political exaggeration. like this is a total fabrication about our democracy being a fraud.

we've already seen the ramifications of a lie. at that scale. in this storming of the capital. it is just so and raging.>> i think in retrospect we may have it may feel like the republican edifices institutionally crumbled in the wake of trump's big lie. up to the election they weren't as onboard as the appearances apparently are now. it is the speaker of the house. who is going down to meet with trump to talk about election integrity. the same speaker of the house who was instrumental in getting house members to sign on to an amicus brief in the wake of the 2020 election that was full of lies and attended the intention was to disenfranchise the boats of forest swing states from the election to donald trump. do you how alarmed are you by the fact that johnson is going down tomorrow lago and the subject of their presser is election integrity aspects.

extremely alarming. a carbon copy of kevin mccarthy. and what kevin mccarthy did after january 6. liz cheney writes this in her book it was may be a small moment where there was some momentum. for impeachment and for trying to move on from trump. kevin mccarthy blunted that when he went down tomorrow lago and rick scott a few days later gave trump an award they made up. it is the same thing. these people have learned nothing. it is true for the mike johnson press conference tomorrow. it gives the stamp -- not just the rnc but the legislative wing on the party on trump's lies about 2020 again. continuing to radicalize people. between november and january 6th there were two things to me that were really alarming. one was watching media like the far right stuff on fox and how apocalyptic they were about the election fraud.

the other was getting my text messages and emails from the rnc. and from trump. i was reading all the stuff going if people really believe this what are they going to do? we saw what they were going to do. there are real-life ramifications to this. not just you are sending a voicemail and nothing happens. words have consequences. they have consequences for democracy. as a matter of political theater it is the fool me once shame on you and full me twice shame on me. i can understand that trump may have been able to convince some section of his supporters the election was stolen in 2020. they seem to be laying the groundwork is a failsafe for the notion that 2024 it will have been stolen to buy illegal voters. why would people believe that two times in a row was not people not just catch on to the absurdity of that at some point? >> why do people believe -- i was kind of encourage there was

not this is the lowest of all bars. there was no storming of the state capital in arizona after carrie lakes loss. there were protests. even the protests were muted. i was down there following the aftermath. that was encouraging. maybe there is some signs that there won't be the same level of enthusiasm for the lies. but donald trump needs the lies because it essential to his whole persona that he can't be a loser. and the voters have gone along with this con need the lies. the kennett mitt they cannot admit they think on. there is a symbiotic necessity to continue with this kind of phony nonsense. it is why he continues. i don't know. we're going to see what happens. all signs do not point in the right direction as far as robocalls and institutional signoff on this goal. thank you for your time.

really appreciate it. still ahead this evening the arizona supreme court's decision to reinstate in 19th century abortion ban is all about the will of the people. at least that is what donald trump is saying. conservatives everywhere are scrambling to explain away this latest antidemocratic front before it runs them at the ballot box. will it work? i will talk to pramila jayapal about that coming up next. ut the for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy.

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so i'm totally confused.

what happened in arizona today?>> it is really funny because just today the arizona court of appeal. >> hang on. hang on. arizona made a state in 1910 or 11. when did arizona become a state? >> 1912. >> 1912. the territorial ban is from 1864 . >> that is correct >> what happened in arizona? that question was top of mind for most americans this week including trump whisperer steve bannon. that steve bannon. appeared just as confused as the rest of us about the arizona supreme court's decision to uphold a civil war era abortion ban. something that conservative

court was only able to do because donald trump's handpicks supreme court justices overturned the constitutional right to an abortion two years ago. nevertheless bannon post the question. conservatives have had a hard time answering it. fox news thinks the democrats are really at fault here.>> you know what arizona's governor is a democrat. the state attorney general is a democrat. the state legislature is almost evenly divided. if democrats you want to get rid of the law. you have a chance right now to get rid of it. i would advise you get rid of it. >> get rid of it democrats. democrats in arizona already tried to do that twice this year. well before this week's ruling. and the republican majority shut them down. then yesterday when arizona democrats tried once more to repeal the 1864 abortion ban who stood in their way? republicans. again so republicans are sort

of saying one thing and mostly doing another here. rendering their position on all of this largely incoherent. just yesterday donald trump out at the end of roe v wade but then seemingly opened the door to voter led initiatives to enshrine abortion access and state constitutions. he said the will of the people this is what i've been saying it is a perfect system. for 52 years people have wanted to and roe v wade and give it back to the states. we did it we did that and now the states habit and the states are putting out what they want. it is the will of the people. it is even more incoherent when you hear him say it. we will talk about that with congresswoman pramila jayapal democrat from the great state of washington. congressman pramila jayapal thank you for joining me. we have a lot to talk about. do you think republicans

conservatives can just say the phrase will of the people, will of the people and say it enough times is such a volume people forget about the actions they have actually taken to get this outcome? >> it is great to be with you. no i don't think they can do that. i think what you are seeing is the mass that they've gotten themselves into. because here is the thing everybody knows because donald trump bragged about it and will continue to brag about it. that he is the one who proudly takes responsibility for ending roe v wade. so he has said that. he has endorsed a nationwide abortion ban. by the way the republicans in the house put a nationwide abortion ban into this conference bill that is supported by 100% of republican leadership. and 80% of the republican conference. so i think that what you have to understand here is that the reason they are doing all of these imaginations and trying to run

around in circles to say they did not say what they did say but maybe they kind of said what they said. that they didn't say. is because they know they are losing on the issue. they know that republicans democrats and independents across the country want to preserve the ability for a pregnant person to make choices about their own bodies. what the states are doing now florida arizona 25 million people one in three women of reproductive age live in states that have either banned abortion or partially and severely restricted abortion or banned abortion depending on how you want to talk about it. so they know this is deeply unpopular. and donald trump is the one who made it happen. and i think they can run around and say whatever they want. the reality is we need to keep showing that clip of exactly as you did of donald trump and other republicans saying that they were the ones who ended roe v wade. and they are the ones who have

caused this tremendous chaos and real pain for millions of women across this country. who now not only don't have the right to abortion by the way, but also the republicans are really about eliminating all reproductive health care for women as you saw with the ivf decision. and so contraception is also by the way very much a part of their plan. and i think that they understand what a mess they are in now because this is not popular. it is not right and it is not popular. >> it is also ironic all of a sudden the republican party which has embraced anti- democratic tactics to stay in power is now heralding how important it is to have the will of the people to decide matters of state-level import like abortion reproductive freedom. by embracing i don't know democracy if closes this sort of mechanisms by which they stayed in power. legislative chicanery and judicial installing

conservatives on benches across the country to rule against the will of the people. i wonder if you think that has dawned on republicans as their leaders get behind the notion of the will of the people. >> look you are trying to be logical about this as if they should actually do what they say and say what they do. they have no consistency at all. they flip positions on a dime. and they do it because they are a cult of donald trump whatever he says or believes that one day is what the entire republican party starts the period. they have no interest in democracy. if they did they would not block the john the passage of the john lewis voting rights act. they would not go into states and fundamentally restrict the rights of americans to be at the polls and vote. that is what they've done over and over. i don't necessarily think we should even get distracted by

that because abortion is the issue. women are the issue here. and what we know is that what they are doing is deeply unpopular. the chaos they have thrown the country into with the maga supreme court. with donald trump proudly pushing and claiming responsibility for ending roe v wade that is really the thing that we are dealing with now. i think that the we will once again show that the will of the people will be on the ballot with the arizona abortion rights amendment. other states across the country that are putting this on the ballot. and i believe it will turn out a tremendous number of people. and we will codify those laws and states. but we just have to be clear that up donald trump gets back in. if republicans keep control of the house and senate they will continue to push forward a nationwide abortion ban. that is what they have always wanted whether they say it or not. >> do you think this is the

whole ballgame in the 2024 election? >> it is a major piece of the ballgame. absolutely. we are getting ready at the progressive caucus to rollout will we call our proposition agenda. i hope i can come back in when we rode it out. that is important lowering cost raising wages for americans so they don't feel the squeeze. so they feel like government is on their side. do with housing childcare. these are also going to be a big part of it. but certainly abortion is going to be a major factor in the election. republicans know they are on the wrong side of it. thank you donald trump for causing all of this chaos for millions of women across this country. congressman pramila jayapal you have a standing invitation to come and talk on this show. let us know when you're ready. thank you for your time. still ahead this evening new polling from the wall street journal shows president biden losing support from one of his core constituencies. black voters. what can be driving them to donald trump? that is ahead.

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>> i don't know trump personally. the only thing i've heard people say when it comes to him is that at least you know what his agenda is because he tells you. that's what it is. the devil you know is better than the one you don't. at the same time, i've heard conversations. >> that was earlier this year, a candid conversation with charles coleman and jermaine lee , cove lists of "black men in america." those remarks about openness to donald trump is a warning to democrats, one buttressed by new polling that shows trump eating into biden's support among black men and women. joining me now is charles

coleman. charles, thank you for being here. we thought of you when we got these numbers, who could make sense of this? it appears to be an increase in black support, 30% of black males in swing states are interested in donald trump. what you make of that? >> it's important to contextualize. at the end of the day, black america can and will determine the outcome in the selection for the critical demographics are going to be very important for joe biden to if he wants to be re-elected. now when you were talking about black men, there are two main reasons, the message is not translating. there is not an acknowledgment in saying look, we know that we

have failed and have a lot of work to do. often, the message is that they look forward without acknowledgment and that is something most black men have a problem connecting to. the other thing that i think the biden administration doing -- is doing is trying to sell the preservation of democracy. if you are someone for whom democracy has not actually worked, losing it without discussing what is going to be different in its preservation does not matter to you in the same way. the issue, it's not necessarily black voters going to donald trump, it's actually black voters who decided they are going to stay home. >> when you talk about the existential threat, the democratic project in tatters at the end of the second trump term, do you think the explicit white nationalism is not enough of a motivator for the same black men you're talking about

who may be less inclined to be energized by the proposal around democracy? >> the message around white nationalism is something that resonates, but i think it's important to understand that if you are someone who has been in america and has voted for the democratic party for generations and have not substantive changes, you don't necessarily feel the biggest difference between curbside bigotry and systemic oppression being maintained. it all seems -- >> bad. >> and so you are not drawing that distinction. one of the reasons joe biden's message is not landing as he wants it to is because you are too afraid to acknowledge that in too afraid to speak on it, to the audience that wants to hear it. they are open to listening. what you going to do that's going to be different for me? >> i remember when i was on the

campaign trail and in the 2020 election, speaking to voters in south carolina, which was critical to joe biden, there was a massive generational divide between older black voters and younger black voters and i wonder how much this is representative of that. older black voters were not getting everything they want, not getting the attention, the policy they need and deserve, but we also are just real about the stakes and what trump administration would mean for us in the country. >> the issue there is that we are dealing with an interesting situation. think back to mitt romney and the conversation was, the sky is falling and this is the most important. for many people, with the indexes and measurements, it's a position most people feel like is still disadvantageous and is not resonating in the same way because people are saying, you did this for

generations and it did not work so we are at least open to trying something new and i think that's a big part of the generational divide. >> the journal reports as black women, who are the bedrock, some of the most reliable voters for democrats, are interested in third-party candidates. that goes to exactly what you were saying, if either staying home, in terms of percentages or being curious about alternative candidates. can you speak to that? did you hear her tell of third- party candidates, was anyone particularly interested? >> particularly in the black community with black men, there's a thirst for another option and the people are very much interested in this other option or if there could be another option even if it's not viable to win to release that message that you need to courtney and pay attention to me. something that has been a huge take in this dialogue is this

notion of trying to shame or scare black men by the saying of, you are going to support -- >> you are handing the election to trump. >> here's the reality, whether we like it or agree with it. being mad about it or being in denial about it, without addressing the reasons why is going to lead to failure. we have to come to grips, whether we like it or not or think it's factually based, founded in reality, is not the issue. the issue is that this sentiment is very real among the people you need to turn out and you have to figure out a way to address it. >> do you think people who feel unseen should not be scapegoated . on indignation, the need to be spoken to and considered. always doing essential work, great to see you. thank you. that is our show. it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell.