notion of trying to shame or scare black men by the saying of, you are going to support -- >> you are handing the election to trump. >> here's the reality, whether we like it or agree with it. being mad about it or being in denial about it, without addressing the reasons why is going to lead to failure. we have to come to grips, whether we like it or not or think it's factually based, founded in reality, is not the issue. the issue is that this sentiment is very real among the people you need to turn out and you have to figure out a way to address it. >> do you think people who feel unseen should not be scapegoated . on indignation, the need to be spoken to and considered. always doing essential work, great to see you. thank you. that is our show. it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> we will hear at the end of

the hour, from a really great campaigner for the vice presidency, and that was joe biden, who was the very first guest on this program, when he was vice president, 13 years ago. i will show a clip of that because it's really a model of how he could be campaigning and should be right now and is trying to campaign right now. this of course, involves a second or two of me on the screen, 13 years ago, where i really -- >> you are like benjamin button, i don't want to hear it. you're getting younger. >> i look like i'm in high school, i don't look old enough to do this job 13 years ago. it's shocking. >> your like a fine wine, lawrence did a fine, fine wine. >> i recognize joe biden but i don't recognize myself. >> i'll be the judge of that. have a great show.

thank you. imagine you are one of the people in new york, in manhattan, who got your jury duty notice and are asked to assemble monday morning at 10:00 in a courtroom with a jury in the case of the people versus donald trump. after you take your seat in the jury pool, the judge will describe the case summary. "the defendant, donald trump, is charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. the allegations are in substance, that donald trump falsified business records to conceal an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the 2016 presidential election. specifically, it is alleged that donald trump made or caused false business records to hide the true nature of payments made to michael cohen, by characterizing them as payment for legal services rendered,

pursuant to a retainer agreement paid the people allege that in fact, the payments were intended to reimburse michael cohen for money he paid to stephanie clifford, also known as stormy daniels, in the weeks before the presidential election to prevent her from publicly revealing details about a past sexual encounter with donald trump." while you are sitting there in the jury, listening to the judge described this case to you, donald trump is sitting at the defense table, looking like this. let's take that back down to a half screen. now, we normally don't allow donald trump to occupy your full television screen during this program.

for this one time, as you can see, you consider yourself sitting there, on monday in the position of a juror looking at him, let's look at what they will actually see. without hearing the word -- a word from donald trump. for that, we will go back to the full screen, so you can take in what this man actually looks like, now. donald trump is likely to be sitting there, as he is in this recent campaign video, that's a picture of him, and what he's doing is trying to look his absolute best in his campaign video which, in his mind, includes the face partially covered in some form of homemade bronzer in which he always forget the ears. he always forgets his ears are visible, showing the real color

of donald trump in contrast to the mud brown he's decided makes him look his best and to some, actually makes him look like a horror movie character. that is not a face you want to present to a criminal jury whose job it is to concentrates on the evidence in the case. those jurors will be listening to the judge's questions while having trump, fighting the urge to steal another peak at the profoundly strange looking man whose voice they will probably never hear in court because it's impossible for donald trump to testify under oath without committing perjury, perjury he will not get away with and donald trump will not be able to testify under oath and get away with trying to lie

about what actually happened when he was alone in his hotel room with stormy daniels, who will testify under oath about what happened. donald trump will not be able to get on the witness stand and successfully lie about his communications and conversations with michael cohen about paying off stormy daniels, so that his presidential campaign could survive and michael cohen will testify. so, with donald trump unable to testify in his own defense, the only thing he brings to his defense is that, silent, discolored face, a face that lies to you without donald trump saying a word, a face that claims to be a color of brown but is betrayed by his 77- year-old pink years, a face

that is topped by hair that is lying to you about exactly where donald trump's hairline might actually be. every day of the jurors spend in that courtroom, with defendant trump, they will be wondering, how he can be so deeply oblivious to the truth, the truth of what he looks like , with that stuff that he slaps on his face. some will be thinking that he can afford the perfect -- the best professional makeup, but this, this is what he chooses. they will be wondering about what other truths about himself is donald trump unable to admit? they will be wondering why he literally cannot look at himself in the mirror. that

silent face will be the only way that donald trump testifies to his first criminal jury. what those jurors will be, on that face, every day, in that courtroom is a lie. no matter how many days those jurors spend in that room with donald trump, they will never come to understand why he chooses to look like that. what they will easily be able to figure out is why he paid stormy daniels. the evidence will show he paid stormy daniels in order to be elected president. many of the people in that jury will, no doubt, be afraid of donald trump, because they have seen what his followers are willing to do for him on january 6th. in court, the jury selection process, referred to as this

french word, the court sees the potential jurors and here's what they say. when the potential jurors are asked simple questions like, what do you do for living and who is your current employer or do you have children, they could easily be reluctant to let donald trump hear the answers to those questions. prospective jurors will all be asked, what cable news networks they watch, what newspapers they read, if any, what social media they use, if any. the new york times derives the prosecution will look favorably upon jurors who watch msnbc or stephen colbert. the defense will probably look favorably on potential jurors who watch the so-called fox news channel. all of the jurors will be asked , question 29. have you, a relative or close friend ever worked for any

company or organization that is owned or run by donald trump or anyone in his family? have you, a relative, or close friend ever worked or volunteered for a trump presidential campaign, the trump presidential administration, or any other political entity affiliated with mr. trump? have you ever attended a rally or a campaign event for donald trump? have you ever attended a rally campaign event for donald trump? are you signed up for or have you ever been signed up for, subscribe to, or followed any newsletter or email list serve run by or on behalf of mr. trump or the trump organization. do you currently follow donald trump on any social media site or have you done so in the past? have you, relative, or close friend ever worked or volunteered for any anti-trump group or organization. have you ever attended a rally or campaign event for any anti- trump group or organization?

are you signed up for or have you ever signed up for subscribe to, or followed any newsletter or email listserv run by or on behalf of any anti- trump group or organization? do you currently follow any anti-trump group or organization on any social media site, or have you done so in the past? have you ever considered herself a supporter of or belong to any of the following, the cueing on movement, prod boys, oath keepers, three presenters, boogaloo boys, or antifa and do you have any strong opinions are firmly held beliefs about whether a former president may be criminally charged in state court. the final question that each prospective juror will be asked , to answer honestly is, is there any reason, whether it be a bias or something else, that

would prevent you from being fair and impartial if you are selected as a juror from this case -- in this case? leading us in discussion is a former attorney at the university michigan law school and we have a former federal prosecutor who is a msnbc legal analyst as well. as we approached jury selection day, we can now begin to imagine what it's going to be like for this people sitting there, and the judge has said that if people declare themselves to be, at the outset, unfair, that they would not be able to be fair, but he says there's no point in actually trying to pursue them beyond that, that it were, they will not let you get off that easy just by declaring yourself to be biased.

>> indicates like this, which is so high-profile, if someone proclaims themselves to be biased, we probably ought to believe them when they tell us who they are. i think the judge would be quick to dismiss people who admit to some bias. this is different from other cases. people are trying to get out of jury service and i can imagine there are people trying to get on jury service. the people who are a little too eager might be the ones that you want to dismiss the most because what i would not want, as a prosecutor , someone who wants to get on this jury because they want to write a book about it or do some sort of tell-all television interview. i want people who want to come in to do the job because they care about getting it right, not because they have self interest. it would be interesting, because they will have plenty of jurors to choose from even if they strike those who self proclaimed that they cannot be fair. >> what are you looking for in jury selection? >> it's interesting. i've always said that you

cannot win a case in jury selection but you can sure lose it. if you ask 100 prosecutors and 100 defense attorneys about their juror preferences, they would probably spend a lot of time telling you what they don't want in a juror rather than what they do want. at the end of the day, prosecutors, and i don't want to speak for defense attorneys, we want someone who can be fair, impartial, not someone who does not have strong beliefs or preferences or ideologies, but people who can, under oath, during jury selection, set aside their preferences, their aversions, their ideologies, and decide based only on the evidence they see during the course of the trial. i think jury selection will be a challenge because so many people will have such strong feelings. i believe at the end of the day, they are going to be able to find a fair and impartial

jury and i think the defendant and the people are going to get a fair trial. >> when a juror answers a question, that seems to create an issue, how then do the lawyers discuss that? is it done while a juror is listening, is it done by more questions, how do they probe beyond the questions? >> typically, the judge will do the first round of questions and ask easy questions and allow the lawyers to do follow- up. to the extent that they want to confer with each other, it's possible to strike jurors for cause, meaning there's a good reason that this person should not sit on this particular case. they've got some sort of bias, a conflict of interest, they know somebody, one of the questions you mentioned, they worked for one of the trump organizations. typically, they would approach

a sidebar to discuss so they are not talking about the juror in front of them like i don't know, i don't think i want this juror, because it could be they end up on the jury, to prevent that discussion about people in front of them, typically those conversations occur in a sidebar. >> so what is it like for jurors in a case like this, with this level of visibility? there are three different possibilities of people on this thing of wanting to be on the jury, because i want to convict donald trump or a want to be because i want to acquit donald trump, or because it's a historic jury, the first criminal jury of a former president? there's a variety of ways in which people might have incentive to want to be on the jury. >> i think the prosecutors and the defense and the judge are going to want to try to sniff out any moles, anybody they

think might be trying to creep onto the jury for nefarious reasons. i have picked a lot of juries, i know that barb has, jurors are placed under oath and they are asked personal questions by the judge and follow-up questions by prosecution and the defense attorneys. you can usually get a pretty good read, a pretty good sense and respect to whether they are being straight or whether they seem to have an agenda and then it will be up to the parties to decide okay, do we want to challenge this person on cause, because there's something that's not quite right in the answers they are giving, or their demeanor when they are getting the answers or does it not rise to the challenge for us for cause, so maybe we want to use one of our 10 strikes, you can strike a juror for any reason at all except race, ethnicity, or gender, any other reason that you just have a bad feeling about the juror and

that's where you exercise your strikes to try to get rid of jurors that you think will not give your side a fair chance. >> before you go, you can't strike a juror because of race or gender. how does the judge know that that is why you are doing it? >> there is a case on this and there's a whole process for it. if one party for sees that the other is basing strikes on a prohibited basis like race, they can challenge that person. they have to show that there is a pattern of striking people based on race and it's up to the prosecutor to provide the reason that they are striking. then the judge makes a decision . i have seen instances where prosecutors strike jurors and maybe have stricken jurors, but because they are sleeping. it's up to the judge to decide.

>> thank you. coming up, arizona has moved back to 1864 and the governor of virginia is blocking legislation to protect the availability of contraception in virginia. the democratic candidate for governor of virginia will join us, next. prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer.

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the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. today, neither the former presidents who campaigned for overturning roe v wade said they are proud. george w. bush is behind a wall in texas and no one asks him any questions about how he feels about the justices he appointed, chief justice john roberts and samuel alito, who were of the opinion of overturning roe v wade. without them, it would not and

could not have happened. bush's father, who is no longer with us, appointed clarence thomas to the supreme court where he waited patiently for 30 years to overturn roe v wade. it's the work of the last three republican presidents and everyone who helped to their campaigns that has set the state of arizona back to life in 1864, when they had no running water, no electricity, no plumbing, and republicans in the arizona legislature have decided to keep that state living in 1864, when they blocked an attempt by democrats to repeal the 1864 law. the supreme court banned abortion and provided a five-year prison sentence for anyone who participates, in any way, in any abortion services. president biden's re-election campaign has rushed into arizona with impressive television advertising about the stakes

for the people of arizona. >> because of donald trump, millions of women lost the fundamental freedom to control their own bodies. now, women's lives are in danger because of that. the question is, if donald trump gets back in power, what freedom will you lose next? your body, and your decisions, belong to you, not the government, not donald trump. i will fight to get your freedom back. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. >> in the state of virginia, the democrats in the legislature passed a bill to protect access to contraception. the republican governor of the state did not sign or veto the bill and instead rewrote it and sent it back to the legislature as the virginia constitution allows the democrats in the legislature said the governor chose to gut the legislation, deleting protections for people

who use iuds, condoms, birth control pills, emergency contraception and erasing the mechanism for virginians to ensure that our rights are enforced. joining us now is the virginia democratic congresswoman, abigail spanberger, who has announced she will be a candidate for governor of virginia in 2025. thank you for joining us. is the current governor trying to preserve his possibility of being chosen as donald trump's vice presidential running mate? >> i don't know what it is that he is doing, but i know it's out of step with what it is that the people of virginia want. this was important legislation that senators and delicate wrote thoughtfully and purposefully, to ensure that in virginia, we would have the right to contraception, which is detailed and outlined and named

, the right to iuds and emergency contraception, and the governor said he would not sign this bill because he said it went too far. the reality is that in the wake of the dobbs decision, we knew that it was not just about abortion, that the restrictions would go further, and when thoughtful legislators, like the senator and the delegate, tried to move forward to protect the access to contraception that is our right , in virginia and across the country, to have the governor say that it goes too far, is just outrageous. >> justice clarence thomas has said that the court and supreme court should absolutely revisit any constitutional protections that they have provided for contraception under privacy doctrines and clarence thomas wants to get rid of them, so states would need that

protection if clarence thomas gets his way. >> it was clearly written in his opinion, supporting the dobbs decision, absolutely. >> what -- go ahead. >> that is why this is so unbelievable, because when the dobbs decision was put forth and we expressed at the federal level and as a member of congress, we voted to protect access to contraception, we knew that these would be the threats that would be coming and we have seen threats to idf in alabama, we have seen a lack of access to emergency contraception, and now, to have a governor say that it goes too far to codify in law the protection that women across virginia, it's not just women, but anyone who wants access to contraception, be it in virginia or anywhere else in the country, the fact that the

governor would say that the step too far is just, it's a clear outcome, with the dobbs decision was made, this was foreseeable and this is why we need legislators committed to protecting our rights and this is why as governor of virginia, i will absolutely be committed to protecting reproductive rights to include abortion care and access to birth control. >> congresswoman spann berger, now candidate for governor of virginia, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, vice president harris made an announcement from the biden administration about something on which donald trump promises to do absolutely nothing. that's next, when the biden harris campaign co-chair congressman joins us. baby: li. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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today, vice president, harris made this announcement. >> as the head of the white house office of gun violence prevention i am excited to tell you that as of today we are closing the gun show loophole. we are requiring anybody who sells guns as a dealer has to do background checks. this will save lives. >> here is the trump position on gun safety. >> during my four years, nothing happened and that was

great pressure on me, having to deal with guns. we did nothing. we did not yield. when i'm back in the oval office, no one will lay a finger on your firearms. >> another pressing issue for which donald trump has promised to do absolutely nothing. another one? student debt. >> we will impose a new role that caps $20,000 for any borrower who owes more now than when they started paying their loan. it's a big difference. for low and middle class families, we will cancel all your interest, all of it. second, we plan to cancel student debt for borrowers who still owe student loans even though they started repaying them more than 20 years ago. folks, third, we plan to cancel

debt for 2 million borrowers who would be eligible for debt forgiveness through our program . public service loan forgiveness, or other debt counseling programs, but are not enrolled. >> joining us now is james clyburn of south carolina, co- chair of the biden harris presidential campaign. thank you for joining us . it is so striking to compare the biden actions on both of these policies to donald trump's absolute promise to do absolutely nothing. >> thank you for having me. both of these policies are so fundamental to american families and american communities and they do a whole lot for americans as individuals. when i think about the so-called

safer communities act, which i thought was a really good effort, and i see with the president is now doing to implement that, i think about that day, when i got the message of what happened in charleston, when those nine poor souls were murdered, all because of the lack of a background check. that young man, if he had been allowed to complete his background check, he would not have been able to purchase that gun because he was not eligible to have a gun. with the president is doing here, and thanks to the vice presidents oversight of this, we are going to close those loopholes, especially loopholes dealing with gun sales, gun shows, people selling guns out of the trunks of their automobiles, people not being subjected to the licenses that

they are going to need. this law will bring all of that back into line and i think it's one of the best things the president could do to implement the safer communities act. it's the first time in 30 years that anything like that has been done, and trump is correct, when he was there for four years, he did nothing and the american people wanted something to be done. almost every other day, there is an anniversary of them egregious act, involving guns, and we need to get all of that and check. when it comes to student loans, the president has announced a new program to confront what the supreme court did with his first iteration. on the hundred and $46 billion he's already forgiven, for 4

million people, there is still a chance of reaching another 23 million people, to bring the total to somewhere around 30 million people, who will be getting their student loans, their balance of their student loans, eliminated. now, i want to emphasize one thing, because a lot of people who criticize this program fail to recognize is that what the president is doing is eliminating interest. people, most of these people have paid back more than they ever borrowed and still owe more than their original loan was for. i have a constituent who borrowed $60,000, paid back that loan for more than 20 years, and last october, he still owed hundred and $19,000.

the original loan was $60,000, he paid for 20 years, and he now owes hundred and $19,000. i congratulate the president. it's a great effort. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, a flashback to our very first guest on this program 13 years ago, then vice president joe biden, who has a perfect lesson for how president joe biden should campaign for re-election. joe biden is next. an all-in-one cleaning tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time ♪♪ our cleaning pad has hundreds of scrubbing strips that absorb and lock dirt away, ♪♪ and it has a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't. so, you can clean your home, faster than ever. ♪♪

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here is a flashback to the very first guest on the very first episode of this program. 13 years ago. >> we had a mutual friend. when pat moynahan, when you are running his show and i was his colleague, a majority of the senate was 51 votes. since we've gotten elected, there's a new majority, 60. what the president has been able to do has been truly remarkable to help the democratic congress. those who did not get everything they wanted, it's time to just buck up, understand that we can make things better, continue to move

forward, and not yield the playing field to those folks who are against everything we stand for, in terms of the initiatives we put forward. >> i don't think of myself as running paths show, liz did, as you remember. >> that's true. >> for those who did not get everything they wanted, it's time to just buck up, understand that we can make things better and continue to move forward but not yield the playing field to those who are against everything we stand for. that is, certainly, what pat morning and would be saying if you were still here to campaign for his dear friend. he served 24 years in the senate with joe biden before his position as a harvard professor. he went back and forth, to government as assistant secretary of labor for president john f. kennedy. he

continued to serve in the administration of president lyndon johnson after president kennedy's assassination. it was common for presidents to appoint members of the opposite party to some important positions and he served as ambassador to india, and ambassador to the united nations in republican administrations. the story of his life, the son of a single mother who was a bartender while he was shining shoes in times square, to become a public policy visionary , is told in the new pbs american masters documentary, titled in his name. >> he wrote probably the first memo about global warming in the american government in 1969 and that is how they became so active on the environment. >> the environmental protection agency was created during the

nixon presidency. his primary focus, especially ways to improve the welfare system and change it into a program that could actually help lift people out of poverty. >> he's trying to get johnson to understand this culture of poverty and racism. >> the insight that he had, was we have to go beyond civil rights legislation, to address the accumulative effects of chronic, racial, and economic subordination. what he was saying was that we need to move beyond issues of liberty and address issues of equality.

>> johnson incorporates that thought into one of the most important addresses any president has ever given. >> freedom is not enough. you do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by change, and liberate him, bringing up to the starting line of the race and say, you are free to compete with all the others, and still, just believe that you have been completely fair. >> this is the core of the liberal anthem that lbj stood for. >> i remember listening very carefully to president johnson's speech at harvard

university in 1965 and i said, you know, this resonates with me. it was based on that report. >> one of the reasons, was the document was never meant for public perusal. it's written in a bombastic way. it was written to get the attention of politicians. >> unless you took the time, and who does, to look into what he said were the causes, you would have taken his view that these people just need to get the families together and everything will be fine. that was what many in the black community believed they had to rebut. >> the advocacy for a minimum level of income fairness, for a big jobs program. the kind of solution he advocated for, even at the time,

was radical. that report was the last point where you had a federal official making an implicit argument for a massive investment in our african- american communities, >> an implicit argument for massive investment, massive benevolent investment in time the case for investment to history. that is something that just really would not happen today. >> the controversies that followed professor moynahan in and out of government did not diminish. student interest in professor monahan's courses when he returned to teaching. >> i was a freshman in 1967 in professor moynahan's course was well-known because he was a brilliant man but he had

practical experience. >> when professor moynahan was elected to the senate he worked his way up to the senate finance committee because he knew from his time working on welfare policy in the white house that the senate finance committee controls not just taxation and international trade but most of the important social policy of the federal government, including social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment insurance and welfare. in the senate, pat moynahan worked relentlessly to improve and strengthen all of those programs knowing that they were crucial to the income security of millions of americans. >> the ceremony was viewed in the senate with enormous respect, sometimes, in comprehension, and sometimes a little fear, and the fear of course came from not wanting to go up against him in debate because he would find something that you had not thought of and you would be in trouble.

>> moynahan hated the notion that the government is the problem. his own rejoinder to that was, if you have contempt for government, you will get contemptible government. >> there is no doubt in my mind that if pat moynahan had been airdropped into new england in the 1770s, he would've been one of the most prominent members of our founding fathers. >> one of my colleagues on the republican side said you know, you couldn't have a senate of 100 moynahan's but you sir -- sure anita senate with one or two. >> what i learned from senator moynahan was commitment. i was there for just some of the more than 40 years he spent working on policies designed to strengthen the income security and improve the lives of people with the greatest economic struggles in this country. he spent decades trying to

steer american foreign policy and more enlightened and helpful directions for this country in the world and if you told him a project might take 30 years that he would say well then, we had better start now, and that is how long it took to complete the project now known as the glorious new moynahan train hall at penn station in manhattan. senator moynahan had the vision for that train station 30 years ago. he moved the government a bit closer to getting it done every year. decades before moynahan train hall was completed he had the architectural model of what you see there today in his office. he did not live long enough to see that project completed or to ever see his name on that wall but as with so many other things that he worked on, his commitment was after him. your guide to the pbs documentary, moynihan, is

jeffrey wright. >> he rose to national celebrity as america's most famous representative of the united nations. >> the flamboyant patrick moynihan. >> in my embarrassed to speak for a less-than-perfect democracy? not one bit. >> moynihan is streaming on the pbs website , pbs.org, until april 26 and is also available on the canopy streaming service. go to pbs.org. click shows and click american masters for moynihan. we will be right back. we will be right back. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. come on. i already got a pneumonia vaccine, but i'm asking about the added protection of prevnar 20®. if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes,

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daniel patrick moynihan gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, donald trump's first criminal trial is almost here. we will get new reporting on the witness list, plus tennessee republicans have their solution for school shootings.